[00:00] <pleia2> alrighty, who is here for the -classroom meeting?
[00:01] <pleia2> 'lo NthDegree, ChinnoDog
[00:01]  * apachelogger_ is 
[00:01] <pleia2> yay :)
[00:01] <apachelogger_> in a forced kind of way
[00:01] <apachelogger_> :P
[00:01] <pleia2> hehe
[00:02] <pleia2> alright, so others can catch up when/if they wander in
[00:02] <pleia2> this team had a nice run in 2006, died out in 2007, has had a couple resurrection attempts since then
[00:02] <pleia2> our page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
[00:03] <pleia2> so, lets try this again
[00:04] <pleia2> last time around we tried to use a hiveminder tool to organize tasks, which I didn't have time to use, and I suspect it made the entry bar a bit high
[00:04] <pleia2> so I think what we need is to define a bunch of tasks on the mailing list & wiki, and get people assigned
[00:05] <apachelogger_> emonkey: welcome to the meeting
[00:05] <pleia2> and we probably want to start slow, the attempts in the past have been a bit ambitious
[00:06] <pleia2> yeah that's all I've got :)
[00:06] <pleia2> so we have tasks on the site:
[00:06] <pleia2>     *
[00:06] <pleia2> Being an instructor
[00:07] <pleia2> Promotion: submit to fridge, UWN and teams that might be interested in specific topics. The marketing group has its own page for coordination.
[00:07]  * nalioth waves
[00:07] <pleia2> Keeping this wiki up to date
[00:07] <pleia2> hey nalioth :)
[00:07] <pleia2> Posting logs
[00:07] <NthDegree> hello nalioth, long time no speak =]
[00:07] <pleia2> Preparing notes/blog entries of sessions (or encourage instructors to do this), see ClassroomTranscripts for examples
[00:07] <pleia2> these are all still valid
[00:07] <pleia2> finding instructors and projects to use -classroom is a task we need covered too
[00:07] <NthDegree> pleia2, we need to verify the Transcripts are still valid
[00:07] <pleia2> I really like that MOTU has sessions here, we need more of that
[00:08] <pleia2> visualdeception: welcome!
[00:08] <visualdeception> sorry I'm late
[00:08] <NthDegree> that is a critical thing for newer Ubuntu versions have different ways of doing things
[00:08] <pleia2> NthDegree: right, they have dates on them though and we should make a point to note that
[00:09] <visualdeception> have I missed anything?
[00:09] <pleia2> lemme catch you up in PM
[00:10] <pleia2> there
[00:10] <pleia2> so, thoughts?
[00:11] <visualdeception> I like using the wiki/mailing list for tasks etc
[00:11] <BLusk> You may want to focus on LTS versions at first because the materials you develop will be useful longer.
[00:12] <pleia2> BLusk: and luckily we're on an LTS release right now! :)
[00:12] <BLusk> Exactly. :D
[00:12] <pleia2> I wonder if once we assign roles (or some of us do tons at first until we can delegate) then our first step should be getting teams to do regular sessions like MOTU
[00:13] <NthDegree> also don't be tied to a single version/flavour of Ubuntu
[00:13] <pleia2> once we have regular activity we can start scheduling classes, slowly as we can handle it
[00:13] <pleia2> NthDegree: yeah, I'm hoping we won't have that problem - admins of the project are Xubuntu and Kubuntu people, and there are plenty of vanilla Ubuntu folks out there :)
[00:13] <NthDegree> also keep in mind Kubuntu is not LTS
[00:14] <NthDegree> KDE 3.5.x version is 18 months
[00:14] <NthDegree> KDE 4 version is 6 months or so
[00:14] <NthDegree> (KDE 4 is a preview)
[00:14] <pleia2> "remix"
[00:14] <pleia2> yeah
[00:14] <visualdeception> I think we need to keep getting the word out that there is more to open source than being a programmer
[00:14] <visualdeception> seems I have to fight that all the time
[00:15] <pleia2> visualdeception: *nod*
[00:15] <pleia2> we need a marketing person
[00:15] <visualdeception> I was trying to do that in the last try to bring this group back
[00:16] <pleia2> yeah
[00:16] <NthDegree> I have an idea
[00:16] <pleia2> are you familiar enough with fridge and UWN to take on submitting stuff?
[00:16] <pleia2> @ visualdeception
[00:16] <NthDegree> it's a bit of a weird one though
[00:16] <pleia2> NthDegree: go for it
[00:16] <NthDegree> why not have days of the week where there is a specific theme for the whole day
[00:16] <NthDegree> we have dedicated teams answer questions on those themes
[00:16] <pleia2> the trouble with this is ambitiousness
[00:17] <visualdeception> I've had one thing sent to them, and it was published
[00:17] <pleia2> it was suggested the last time around to have something similar - but it was more like each week had a theme
[00:17] <NthDegree> then we only have specific classes when we are sure they are going to be successful
[00:17] <BLusk> pleia2, mind if I summarize what I've seen thus far?
[00:17] <pleia2> visualdeception: good enough for me :) a task you'd be interested in?
[00:17] <visualdeception> sure
[00:17] <pleia2> BLusk: go ahead
[00:17] <pleia2> yay!
[00:17] <BLusk> ***
[00:17] <BLusk> TEAMS:
[00:17] <BLusk> Instructors
[00:17] <BLusk> Course Development
[00:17] <BLusk> Marketing
[00:17] <BLusk> TASKS:
[00:17] <BLusk> Change perception that programmers are all there is to Open Source
[00:17] <BLusk> Develop course material based on LTS releases
[00:17] <BLusk> Obtain instructors
[00:17] <BLusk> Schedule classes
[00:18] <BLusk> ***
[00:18]  * pleia2 nods
[00:18] <BLusk> Anything missing?
[00:18] <pleia2> now, ubuntu-training has actual course material
[00:18] <NthDegree> I have one to add
[00:18] <NthDegree> get LUG involvement
[00:18] <pleia2> which is a canonical sponsored initative (and crazy awesome)
[00:19] <pleia2> defining where classroom ends and where training picks up is important
[00:19] <pleia2> ubuntu-classroom focuses on IRC and posting of IRC session results to the web
[00:19] <BLusk> So, training material is provided by ubuntu-training?
[00:19] <BLusk> Ah.
[00:19] <pleia2> ubuntu-training develops free course material that canonical uses for paid training sessions, and others are free to use it if they don't make money from it
[00:20] <BLusk> So, the entire course development could be easily placed on unbuntu-training
[00:20] <pleia2> I've worked some with the -training folks, we could use some of their material to develop -classroom sessions
[00:20] <BLusk> Leaving only acquiring instructors.
[00:20] <visualdeception> we should probably work with them to work on clear cut transition
[00:20] <BLusk> And marketing.
[00:20] <pleia2> BLusk: some, I'd like to see much more community-related stuff beyond what -training provides
[00:20] <NthDegree> marketing is something that can come naturally
[00:21] <NthDegree> "hey -classroom has a session going on all about this in 5 minutes, why not have a look?"
[00:21] <pleia2> visualdeception: agreed, I have a dialog open with dinda on this issue, I'll snag her again soon
[00:21] <visualdeception> cool
[00:21] <pleia2> NthDegree: without being spammy ;)
[00:21] <NthDegree> pleia2, well I mean if a user in #ubuntu happens to want help with something that is in our theme
[00:22] <pleia2> NthDegree: I'd clear it with the -ops before such an announcement
[00:22] <NthDegree> it's like extended spoonfeeding + training and they'll love the care and attention and hang around
[00:22] <BLusk> Basically, suggesting it to an individual = OK, bulk marketing = check with ops first.
[00:22] <pleia2> anyway, fridge, UWN, blogs and the like are OK
[00:22] <pleia2> mailing lists that have expressed interest, cool (like ubuntu-women
[00:22] <NthDegree> BLusk, i'd never "bulk market", it backfires
[00:23] <NthDegree> word of mouth will be the most powerful tool
[00:23] <BLusk> I'm referring specifically to making an announcement to an entire channel/group of channels.
[00:23] <NthDegree> ah
[00:23] <BLusk> (Which is still bulk marketing, even if the lesser end of the spectrum)
[00:24] <visualdeception> another thing I think that would help is if some in the classroom group were willing to teach sessions
[00:24] <BLusk> Instruct the instructors.
[00:24] <pleia2> visualdeception: yeah, I expect I'll be doing some, and I can nag nixternal into it too
[00:24] <visualdeception> yea
[00:25] <NthDegree> I may be able to do some generic bits on the odd occasion
[00:25] <pleia2> nixternal was really involved with the first successful classrom iniative, before he went and got all busy and famous ;)
[00:25] <NthDegree> like AppArmor
[00:25] <visualdeception> lol
[00:25] <NthDegree> that works the same everywhere and is easy to use
[00:26] <NthDegree> not that useful on the desktop but it's a neat thing users should be aware of and know how to use all the same
[00:27] <visualdeception> we are more worried about getting people to try and give back to the community right?
[00:28] <pleia2> I think we can have a balance
[00:28] <visualdeception> ok
[00:28] <pleia2> some "how to use ubuntu" some "how to help ubuntu"
[00:28] <pleia2> + sessions by teams
[00:28] <visualdeception> cool
[00:28] <NthDegree> some could be a form of attractive advertising
[00:29] <NthDegree> like charities do
[00:29] <pleia2> hm?
[00:29] <NthDegree> like "Why *you* should join the Artwork team?"
[00:29] <NthDegree> err minus the ?
[00:29] <pleia2> heh, yeah
[00:30] <NthDegree> but you get the idea, having the artwork team say what they do and what makes them cool
[00:30] <pleia2> we can suggest such things to the teas
[00:30] <pleia2> yeah
[00:30] <pleia2> visualdeception: do you have links to those old logos that were made?
[00:30] <visualdeception> let me check
[00:32] <visualdeception> http://linux.dudenhofer.net/ubuntuclassroom.png
[00:32] <visualdeception> that was the basic one
[00:32] <visualdeception> and actually the only one I made
[00:33] <pleia2> I forget who had the little chalkboard
[00:33] <pleia2> I'm gonna have to go back in the mailing list archives and dig up slogans too
[00:33] <visualdeception> I think I was looking for it and never found it
[00:33] <pleia2> #
[00:33] <pleia2> Review'd slogan submissions from the mailing list
[00:33] <pleia2>     *
[00:33] <pleia2>       Decided to go with learn something new every day
[00:34] <pleia2> (from a past meeting)
[00:34] <BLusk> Heh heh...
[00:34] <visualdeception> sounds good...
[00:35] <BLusk> Why'd I just get this picture of a video of some guy in old safety glasses in front of a small chalkboard with the words "Ubuntu Safety" on the board?
[00:35] <visualdeception> I can do some tinkering with that and the logo
[00:36] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconsPage?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=example.png
[00:36] <pleia2> there it is :)
[00:36] <visualdeception> cool
[00:37] <pleia2> visualdeception: cool, so maybe go with what you have now, but with the new slogan and the little chalkboard at the bottom :)
[00:37] <pleia2> and make it buttony - I don't know how to do images
[00:37] <pleia2> but sorta raised feeling with some boarder
[00:37] <pleia2> border
[00:37] <visualdeception> I'll see what I can do
[00:38] <visualdeception> doesnt sound to difficult
[00:38] <visualdeception> I might do some variations on that as well
[00:39] <pleia2> great :)
[00:39] <pleia2> just go ahead and post them to the list when you're done
[00:39] <visualdeception> ok
[00:39] <visualdeception>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconsPage?ac │ n0p
[00:39] <visualdeception>                           tion=AttachFile&do=get&target=exampl │ nalioth
[00:39] <visualdeception> woops
[00:39] <visualdeception> thats nice
[00:40]  * nalioth waves
[00:40] <pleia2> hehe
[00:40] <visualdeception> lol
[00:40] <visualdeception> stinking middle mouse button
[00:40]  * visualdeception grins
[00:41] <pleia2> I think we're good now
[00:41] <pleia2> have a plan to move forward :)
[00:41] <BLusk> All right, so basically the meeting is done?
[00:42] <pleia2> I'd say so, unless anyone has anything else to add
[00:42] <BLusk> All right, here's my notes...
[00:42] <BLusk> ***
[00:42] <BLusk> TEAMS:
[00:42] <BLusk> 1. Instructors
[00:42] <BLusk> 2. Course Development (Primarily Ubuntu-Training, but Community contributions accepted)
[00:42] <BLusk> 3. Marketing
[00:42] <BLusk> TASKS:
[00:42] <BLusk> 1. Change perception that programmers are all there is to Open Source
[00:42] <BLusk> 2. Develop course material based on LTS releases
[00:42] <BLusk> 3. Obtain instructors
[00:42] <BLusk> 4. Schedule classes
[00:42] <BLusk> 5. Reach out to user groups
[00:42] <BLusk> 6. Logo update/adjustments (Assigned to visualdeception)
[00:42] <BLusk> PRIORITIES:
[00:42] <BLusk> 1. Balance the goals of "How to Use Ubuntu" and "How to Help Ubuntu"
[00:42] <BLusk> ***
[00:43] <visualdeception> is that going on the wiki?
[00:43] <pleia2> yeah, I might tweak it a bit
[00:43] <pleia2> thanks BLusk :)
[00:43] <BLusk> No problem.  Hope it helps.
[00:45]  * BLusk bails for dinner
[01:39] <pleia2> dinda: if you're interested, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/Meetings/Minutes2008Jun12
[01:40] <pleia2> just finished up about 40 minutes ago
[01:41] <persia> Is there a reference to the wiki or ML discussion that sparked this?  I've read the meeting log, but don't understand it.
[01:41] <pleia2> persia: hm? we just haven't had a real meeting since March
[01:42] <pleia2> so we're getting back to it
[01:42] <dinda> argh, fell asleep
[01:43] <dinda>  forgot to do the whole UTC to my time thing
[01:47] <dinda> pleia2:  did I miss the UW meeting too?
[01:48] <pleia2> dinda: yes :(
[01:48] <pleia2> if I post UW logs, wanna read through and do the summary?
[01:49] <dinda> yes, please
[01:52] <persia> pleia2: Ah, then I'm missing even more context :)  Who is "we"?
[01:52] <pleia2> persia: the ubuntu-classroom team
[01:53] <persia> Oh.  I didn't know there was one.
[01:53]  * persia hunts for a wiki page to learn more
[01:53] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
[01:54] <persia> That looks great.  Thanks for sharing.  I had previously thought this was for open week and MOTU School: I didn't know it was organised.
[01:55] <persia> Is there a reservations system?  I've led a few sessions in here when it happened to be quiet, but would prefer to avoid any collisions in the future.
[02:02] <pleia2> persia: we're progressing that way, I'd suggest signing up for the list and mention stuff you had in mind
[02:03] <persia> pleia2: OK.  I'll do that.  My sessions to date have either been packaging tutorials or guidance on reading stacktraces, so not quite in line with the core focus.
[02:11] <pleia2> persia: there isn't really a "core focus" per se, I think we want to branch out into all sorts of areas, from how-to to community involvement, beginner to advanced
[02:12] <persia> pleia2: Are you also integrated with MOTU School?
[02:13] <pleia2> persia: not really, UOW does their stuff here, MOTU does their classes here, but we don't have oversight over that - we're trying to get more MOTU School type groups to use this channel, coordinate it, and run our own classes
[02:14] <persia> pleia2: Ah, so the ubuntu-classroom team is more about 1) coordinating the channel and 2) providing user-focus classes, rather than being a central Ubuntu Education coordinator?
[02:15] <pleia2> persia: something like that, yes :)
[02:16] <persia> OK.  Thanks for the detailed explanations.
[02:16] <persia> (and, for the record, I'm not certain that there's enough educational activity to require central coordination yet)
[02:17] <pleia2> persia: (I agree)
[17:57] <AboSamoor> #python
[23:55] <Chiselhuk_Plus1> Flannel: So here I am! lol
[23:55] <Chiselhuk_Plus1> Flannel: It kicked up some fuss about a password! :(
[23:55] <Flannel> right, the gksu will require your password
[23:55] <Flannel> just type your user password
[23:57] <Chiselhuk_Plus1> Flannel: Error "Failed to run gedit/etc/network/interfaces: Wrong password
[23:57] <Flannel> Chiselhuk_Plus1: Did you use your user password?
[23:57] <Chiselhuk_Plus1> yes, there's only one password on this clean install!
[23:58] <Flannel> Try again... make sure capslock is off, etc.
[23:58]  * Chiselhuk_Plus1 is about to give up!
[23:58]  * Chiselhuk_Plus1 is not blonde!! lol
[23:58] <Chiselhuk_Plus1> capslock is so not on....any other ideas?
[23:59] <Flannel> You just used this password to log in, right?
[23:59] <Chiselhuk_Plus1> yes
[23:59] <Flannel> blah.  Ok, lets try the command line, it'll give us more familiar error messages.  in gnome-terminal, sudo nano /etc/network/interfaces