[00:00] <Riddelll> txwikinger: ready in a minute?
[00:00] <txwikinger> I am ready
[00:00] <Riddell> well friends, a real treat for you now
[00:00] <Riddell> txwikinger is our ace beastie squisher
[00:00] <Riddell> here to tell you how to help out with the millions of bugs we have, it's txwikinger!
[00:01] <txwikinger> ok..let's look a little into our bug treatment
[00:01] <txwikinger> I am not so famous like some others here.. so just a little bio
[00:02] <txwikinger> [00:02] <dwidmann> Riddell: seeing as nobody else has volunteered, I guess that means I'll be doing it :)
[00:02] <txwikinger> * Free software enthusiast and advocate
[00:02] <txwikinger> * Computer Science and law degrees
[00:02] <txwikinger> * Started computing on unix
[00:02] <txwikinger> * Worked as developer, system and network admin, and consultant in Telecom, Finances and Education industries.
[00:02] <txwikinger> * Computer Science Lecturer at University
[00:02] <nosrednaekim> txwikinger: law degree...... so I won't get sued by PETA for squashing bugs?
[00:03] <txwikinger> yep.. that's the idea :)
[00:03] <txwikinger> * Involved in Ubuntu/Kubuntu for nearly 1.5 years now and lately also a little bit for Debian.
[00:03] <txwikinger> well.. I use Kubuntu since hoary, I believe
[00:03] <txwikinger> * Doing advocacy, community stuff, bug triage and some packaging
[00:04] <txwikinger> * Email me at txwikinger@ubuntu.com if you like
[00:04] <txwikinger> or talk to me where I hang around in irc
[00:04] <txwikinger> ok.. but now to the topic
[00:04] <txwikinger> [00:04] <txwikinger> The word triage comes from the French word trier which means sorting, sifting (see http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=triage)
[00:04] <txwikinger> Commonly it is used in the field of medicine, especially in the context of emergency rooms, disaster situations, basically when limited resources must be allocated to a high number of patients.
[00:05] <txwikinger> This in an analogy that also describes what we do with bug-reports. When they are submitted, they must be checked if the adhere to a certain standard, contain all the necessary information that they can be fixed and be sorted and classified in order to get the right "resource" to work on it.
[00:05] <txwikinger> In some way someone who triages bugs is something like a facilitator or arbitrator. You work with the reported in order to retrieve as much information as possible.
[00:06] <txwikinger> reporter that is
[00:06] <txwikinger> You also work with the developers for kubuntu and ubuntu as well as upstream distributions like KDE and debian and others in providing the information or finding out what information is needed.
[00:06] <txwikinger> Due to the fact that all of this concerns people it is very important that bug triage is done with a lot of patience and humility.
[00:07] <txwikinger> There are sometimes different interests that need to be mitigated when decisions are made, and it is always the best to be as polite as possible to everybody around (see also Ubuntu CoC https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.0.1)
[00:07] <txwikinger> The bug triage happens on launchpad https://bugs.launchpad.net/ In order to be able to triage bugs effectively, you must have an account on launchpad.
[00:07] <txwikinger> Ok.. so far the theory...
[00:08] <txwikinger> Let's see what is really done
[00:08] <txwikinger> [00:08] <txwikinger> [00:08] <txwikinger> Bugs are often submitted by reporters that do not understand fully the process.
[00:08] <txwikinger> On the other hand, the people working with the bugs need efficient access to the information.
[00:09] <txwikinger> Therefore it can be very important to clean up the bugs summary to soemthing that is meaningful that in a list of reports someone already understand the main issue of every report in the list.
[00:09] <txwikinger> It can also be helpful if certain important information is added to the description of the report, since this is the first thing after the summary one would read.
[00:11] <txwikinger> Lets look at bug #240242
[00:11] <txwikinger> Is this report well described?
[00:12] <txwikinger> What would be helpful to know?
[00:12] <dwidmann> well, for a one liner, I would say .... .... ... I would say launchpad is taking forever to come up :(
[00:13] <Riddell> i'd ask if typing in other parts of firefox works
[00:13] <txwikinger> yes.. good idea
[00:13] <dwidmann> hmmmm, opera says "launchpad is using an outdated encryption algorithm that is no longer considered secure", interesting
[00:14] <txwikinger> A developer probably would like to know exactly the build of firefox
[00:14] <txwikinger> So it would be good to ask the reporter for the package version
[00:15] <txwikinger> It would be interesting if firefox is the only app for which this happen
[00:15] <txwikinger> So as you can see... lots of additional information is interesting and should be added
[00:16] <txwikinger> This can also be done by the triager if it can be reproduced
[00:16] <txwikinger> We also like to add workarounds if we know them into the description
[00:16] <txwikinger> This way others who has this problem can easily work around them until they are fixed
[00:17] <txwikinger> [00:17] <txwikinger> This is in my opinion the most important step of bug triage. In an ideal world, a bug report has a description that allows anybody following it to immediately reproduce the bug.
[00:17] <txwikinger> It is good practice to see if the description given is sufficient to reproduce or see the problem and if necessary add additional information if the problem is found.
[00:18] <txwikinger> Here is an example, I have worked on: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/102979
[00:19] <txwikinger> This was the original description: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/102979/comments/0
[00:19] <txwikinger> I have made it a little more readable and have added the workaround I found
[00:20] <txwikinger> I also added a question to the submitter and explained some more how to reproduce the problem
[00:21] <txwikinger> Another important task:
[00:21] <txwikinger> [00:21] <txwikinger> [00:21] <txwikinger> Often reports are submitted without a package assigned to it
[00:21] <txwikinger> An important part of the sorting of the reports is to assign them to the right package. The allows the right people to look at the bugs.
[00:22] <txwikinger> Here are good instructions on how to find the right package to assigne a bug to:
[00:22] <txwikinger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage
[00:22] <txwikinger> Sometimes it is not easy to understand from the beginning which the right packages is
[00:23] <txwikinger> However, reports can easily be assigned to multiple packages, or packages can later be changed
[00:23] <txwikinger> This is done by clicking on the Status value
[00:23] <txwikinger> The opens up the fields that can be edited
[00:24] <txwikinger> The first field is for the package
[00:24] <txwikinger> there is also a search function if the complete name of the package is not known
[00:24] <txwikinger> (Choose)
[00:25] <txwikinger> In the same part the next task can be performed:
[00:25] <txwikinger> [00:25] <txwikinger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/CommonTasks#head-6e435bd3f0413458778d4688ea2f4983e90e6ab4 gives an overwiew of the different states a report can have.
[00:25] <txwikinger> For the triage, the essential states are New, Incomplete, Confirmed and Invalid.
[00:26] <txwikinger> very report start with the state New. When somebody starts to triage it and more information is necessary it will be set in the state incomplete until all the information is in the report.
[00:26] <txwikinger> When all the information is in the report and the bug can be reproduced it will be set to the state Confirmed.
[00:26] <txwikinger> A lot of reports will turn out either not to be bugs, or it is impossible to collect the necessary information that the report has a positive effect, i.e really helps to solve a problem.
[00:27] <txwikinger> Sometimes reporters will not respond for request for the information needed, and it is not feasible or possible to recreate it yourself.
[00:27] <txwikinger> In these cases the state will be changed to invalid.
[00:27] <txwikinger> With all those state changes always keep in mind the consequences. We do not want to unnecessarily mark reports invalid because of laziness.
[00:28] <txwikinger> A report might contain crucial information to solve a problem, sometimes not understood to the person that triages it.
[00:28] <christoz> the tutorials day isn't over yet/
[00:28] <christoz> ?
[00:28] <txwikinger> I am talking about bug triage at the moment, so yes :)
[00:29] <txwikinger> Therefore, we do not close report lightly in this way. We always want to make sure the report has all the necessary information to be set for the next state.
[00:29] <christoz> sorry
[00:29] <txwikinger> No problem :)
[00:29] <txwikinger> Reports with missing information are set to Incomplete
[00:29] <txwikinger> However, there should also always be instruction put in a comment how the reporter can collect the necessary information that is missing
[00:30] <txwikinger> Another important task is to find:
[00:30] <txwikinger> [00:30] <txwikinger> While reporters are encouraged to first look for similar or identical problems in the bug tracker, it is inevidable that we get a lot of duplicate reports.
[00:30] <txwikinger> Therefore a very important step during the information collection is to see if there is already another report.
[00:31] <txwikinger> If this is the case, the report is linked to the original report (more here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/CommonTasks#head-170e00a7154fcfc87f0fc50f65bba9cff7ab27fe)
[00:32] <txwikinger> [00:32] <txwikinger> Often we will deal with issues that are problems in upstream packages.
[00:32] <txwikinger> We are working very close with the upstream distros and it is a mutual benefit for everybody to get bug fixes introduced as high upstream as possible.
[00:33] <txwikinger> For Kubuntu, KDE is in particular of interest. Here is an example of this https://bugs.launchpad.net/kdebase/+bug/96151
[00:34] <txwikinger> In such cases you either find an already existing report in the upstream bugtracker and add it to the report, or you create a new report in the upstream bug tracker and add that one.
[00:34] <txwikinger> Here are the instructions how to do this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#head-ab0eb9d7731fa877b5fc866eedc4c312dab50ee7
[00:34] <txwikinger> Basically you choose the upstream project (KDE in this case) an add the url to the particular bug in their tracker.
[00:35] <txwikinger> launchpad will then update periodically the state of the report in the upstream tracker.
[00:35] <txwikinger> Actually this part takes a lot of my time when I am triage
[00:36] <txwikinger> As faster we get reports to the proper places, as faster we get fixes back through our upstream packages
[00:36] <txwikinger> Ok... I am breezing here a little fast through some of the steps
[00:37] <txwikinger> The urls are supposed to give you references to look at when you get stuck while triaging
[00:37] <dwidmann> that's probably because you aren't being bogged down by dozens of questions ... for better or for worse
[00:37] <txwikinger> hehe
[00:37] <txwikinger> Well.. if you have a question, ask
[00:38] <dwidmann> Looks pretty straightforward to me ... but .... where did everybody else go ...
[00:38] <katastrophe> nice, i can only emphasize how much you can help the community with triaging (to all) :p
[00:38] <txwikinger> Or feel free to ask someone while you triage
[00:38] <txwikinger> One of the really helpful things are:
[00:38] <txwikinger> [00:39] <txwikinger> One thing that helps a lot, especially to maintain a polite and collaborative atmosphere are standard responses that can be adjusted to the particular situation.
[00:39] <txwikinger> Here are lots of such responses for various situations: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses
[00:39] <txwikinger> In particular I would like to raise the attention for this one:
[00:39] <txwikinger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#head-6ee6466fdaac8c81274185f0316afd794d2ee0b6
[00:40] <txwikinger> This can be used when the reporter does not responds (usually within a month) to the requests for more information and the existing information does not help to reproduce the problem.
[00:40] <txwikinger> Another issue we often see is the following
[00:40] <txwikinger> Look ast bug #240261
[00:41] <txwikinger> Is this really a bug?
[00:41] <katastrophe> hehe, not really
[00:42] <Sundance> Okay, gotta go. Thank you all, thank you txwikinger and thank you Riddell. :)
[00:42] <txwikinger> katastrophe: Yes.. I think this is rather a
[00:42] <txwikinger> [00:42] <txwikinger> Sometimes bug reports turn out to be really support requests.
[00:42] <txwikinger> Reporters should be gently nudged to the support tracker in launchpad.
[00:42] <txwikinger> It is certainly beneficial if inexperienced users are guided by the people that help to support them to filter out all the issues that are not really bugs.
[00:43] <txwikinger> It is very easy to create a bug report linked to an existing question if it turns out to be such.
[00:44] <txwikinger> In order to convert the report to a question, there is a link in the left margin of the report page
[00:44] <txwikinger> "Convert to question"
[00:44] <txwikinger> The Standard reposes above have a text that can be put into the field
[00:44] <txwikinger> responses
[00:45] <txwikinger> The questions can all be found at https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
[00:46] <txwikinger> Ok.. this is all the issues I want to go through about how to deal with the reports during the triage process
[00:46] <txwikinger> Now some fun things:
[00:46] <txwikinger> [00:46] <txwikinger> We have currently, I believe, weekly bug days where there is special focus on a particular class of bugs. Information can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay
[00:47] <txwikinger> I believe on Tuesday there will be OpenOffice reports that are particularily looked at
[00:48] <txwikinger> We often have also in parallel specific KDE/Kubuntu packages that we focus on
[00:48] <txwikinger> It is always lots of fun to work together on those lists and see them getting finished
[00:49] <txwikinger> Questions can always be asks on [00:49] <Riddell> hug days!
[00:50] <txwikinger> Dholbach has also started a nice motivational tool to do a little bit every day
[00:50] <txwikinger> [00:51] <katastrophe> oh do you have a link?
[00:51] <txwikinger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day
[00:51] <katastrophe> k :)
[00:51] <txwikinger> Here are the stats for it http://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/
[00:52] <txwikinger> The idea is, to try to do a couple of bugs every day which over time gets a lot done
[00:52] <txwikinger> ok.. coming to the end:
[00:52] <txwikinger> [00:52] <txwikinger> lways remember that we are working here in a team.
[00:52] <txwikinger> Always remember that we are working here in a team.
[00:52] <katastrophe> nice, we only have the the stats of the kde bugtracker
[00:52] <txwikinger> Therefore, we help each other. It is always good to ask questions if you are not sure how to proceed.
[00:53] <txwikinger> Even for the most seasoned people it can be in tricky cases very helpful to have a second opinion.
[00:53] <txwikinger> So if your are not sure about something ask somebody.
[00:53] <txwikinger> I am often around on the IRC channels as txwikinger or txwikinger2
[00:53] <txwikinger> Feel free to see me if I can help you.
[00:54] <txwikinger> Here some more links with lots of helpful information:
[00:54] <txwikinger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
[00:54] <txwikinger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/KnowledgeBase
[00:54] <txwikinger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures
[00:54] <txwikinger> In particular for Kubuntu and KDE:
[00:55] <txwikinger> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Bugs/Reporting
[00:55] <txwikinger> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DebuggingKDE
[00:56] <txwikinger> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Bugs
[00:57]  * nosrednaekim clpas for txwikinger
[00:57] <nosrednaekim> and claps as well
[00:57] <Riddell> all done?
[00:58] <txwikinger> I hope you will all enjoy bug triage in the future
[00:58] <txwikinger> It is a lot of fun !!!!!
[00:58] <Riddell> lots of beasties to squish!
[00:58] <katastrophe> one thing to add: if you have some kde specific stuff, there is also #kde-bugs and youre welcome :)
[00:58] <txwikinger> Riddell: yes.. if there aren't any questions
[00:59] <Riddell> thanks for coming all
[00:59] <Riddell> sorry about the netsplits
[00:59] <Riddell> we'll get logs up soon
[00:59] <seele> Q&A now?
[01:00] <Riddell> if there are any questions we're happy to take them
[01:00] <Riddell> dwidmann: if you want to do that techbase tutorial, grab a page on the wiki under http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials#Python
[01:00] <Riddell> and let me know when there's something to review
[01:00] <dwidmann> Riddell: will do
[01:00] <dwidmann> should be later tonight
[01:01] <Riddell> Please give feedback at the bottom of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay
[01:01] <Riddell> if the contents was ok, or how well the timing worked
[01:01] <dwidmann> I'm going to go take a shower and get some mountain dew, then come back and start wittling away at it :)
[01:01] <Riddell> Intrepid is an exciting cycle since it's the start of the two year LTS cycle we get to do interesting things... like move to KDE 4
[01:01] <katastrophe> seele: can you say something about the progress of the kde4 hig?
[01:02] <seele> katastrophe: sure
[01:02] <seele> Ellen Reitmayr and myself are working on the HIG htis summer
[01:02] <m4v> Riddell: about the packaging, debuild fails because it can't sign the packages, I need to create my own gpg key?
[01:02] <seele> we also have 2 interns for the Season of Usabiity working on it
[01:02] <katastrophe> ah this is cool :)
[01:02] <seele> currently we have a long list of questions and requests we've gathered from developers that we are working on documenting
[01:03] <Riddell> m4v: that's a good sign, it means it has completed all the important bits!
[01:03] <seele> and we hope to have a collection of examples (patterns) to go along with the list of guidelines for widgets
[01:03] <Riddell> m4v: when you become a motu you'll need a gpg key to sign packages for upload, and you'll need one to upload to revu
[01:03] <seele> right now it is in between a wiki on openusability and transitioning to kde techbase
[01:04] <seele> katastrophe: so hopefully by the end of the summer we will have lots of materials for developers to use
[01:04] <katastrophe> cool, i would love to see that, hopefully the developers will stick to the guide :)
[01:04] <seele> katastrophe: i think they will once it is done, we get questions and requests all the time
[01:04] <m4v> ..
[01:04] <seele> the problem is we have two very busy people doing a very long and painful job.  writing guidelines is not very fun no matter how important
[01:05] <seele> we hope the interns help with that
[01:05] <Riddell> m4v: I can't find the wiki page that describes how to create one, but it'll be somewhere under MOTU on the wiki
[01:05] <katastrophe> really nice, perhaps kde could be the "most consistent platform" in some far future :p
[01:05] <katastrophe> yeah i can understand
[01:05] <seele> katastrophe: i think that will happen more as kde3 apps get transitioned out of kde4
[01:06] <m4v> I'm creating one, sorry, the last ".." comment was cause I thought I was on my terminal :p
[01:06] <seele> even though they look the same, there may be UI rules that have changes which will make them different
[01:06] <katastrophe> yes
[01:06] <Riddell> ah hah https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
[01:06] <dwidmann> Riddell: kind of an ot question, but do you know if/when/how soon/etc dual head might be playing nice with kde 4(.1)?
[01:07] <dwidmann> (vague is fine too)
[01:07] <Riddell> dwidmann: I don't know I'm afraid, you'd need to ask the plasma developers
[01:07] <Riddell> m4v: for getting a revu account see https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[01:08] <dwidmann> Riddell: okay, was just asking ... it's hindering my ability to run it/ report bugs :(
[01:08] <katastrophe> seele: hm and another one :p what do you think about options? how much should be available in a program? can it be too much?
[01:08] <katastrophe> or does it depend on the targeted users
[01:08] <seele> katastrophe: it always depends on the application, the tasks, and the target users
[01:09] <katastrophe> ok
[01:09] <seele> like i said earlier, expert systems need to cater to experts.. which means they will probably have tons of options
[01:09] <seele> but if something simple also needs or supports high configuration, then you might have tons of options for that too
[01:09] <nosrednaekim> like Eric :P
[01:09] <seele> take instant messaging for example
[01:09] <seele> you could stay simple and provide only one look and feel for your chat window
[01:10] <seele> but even non-expert users like to configure fun stuff like colors and themes
[01:10] <nosrednaekim> and only one sze for the input box *ahem*
[01:10] <katastrophe> yeah  its because i always liked miranda, if you know the client because its so configurable
[01:10] <seele> and if it is done right, you might be able to provide tons of themeing options that arent too hard to use
[01:10] <katastrophe> ah ok
[01:10] <seele> having a ton of options does not mean there is unneeded complexity
[01:10] <JontheEchidna> Just make the options non-intrusive?
[01:10] <katastrophe> yeah, i thought about that, good to hear :)
[01:11] <seele> well.. again, non-intrusive for certain kinds of options
[01:11] <seele> understanding work flows and what experience your target users have will help shape a lot of the UI
[01:12] <seele> if your users are used to web applications that use a specific pattern for choosing a color.. you might be able to support tons of color options if you go with a design they already know
[01:12] <seele> or if users only want to choose from a palette of 30 colors.. dont give them the gradient selector or ask them to enter hex colors
[01:12] <seele> if you can configure every single widget, previews help them keep track of their work
[01:12] <seele> stuff like that
[01:12] <katastrophe> ok
[01:12] <seele> any time you have a ton of widgets on the screen youre at risk for complexity
[01:12] <seele> there is just so much to take in and understand
[01:13] <seele> your job as a designer or developer is to create a presentation they can make sense of
[01:13] <seele> so they can focus on small parts of the problem to solve instead of taking in the problem all at once
[01:13] <seele> we do this by creating tabs with specific option categories or hiding advanced options behind advanced buttons and new dialogs
[01:13] <seele> and so on
[01:14] <katastrophe> ah ok
[01:14] <katastrophe> btw i had a look at kgrubeditor, its really nice :)
[01:14] <seele> i'm not saying that you can never have too many options, it is all a balance between the users you focus on
[01:15] <katastrophe> ok :)
[01:15] <seele> if 5% of your users want 10 options but 95% of your users wont use it, it probably wont be worth screwing with the 95% of users to add those options in
[01:15] <seele> (this is why we didnt get through as much as i wanted today.. i talk and talk and talk..)
[01:15] <seele> yeah, kgrubeditor is shaping up nicely
[01:15] <seele> but we have a huge problem with automagic
[01:15] <seele> i'm not sure how to solve it yet
[01:15] <katastrophe> no problem, perhaps you could give an advanced talk later :p
[01:15] <seele> we dont want to break it, but that means that you cant reorder half the menu
[01:16] <katastrophe> hm will kgrubeditor be available as system settings module? would be awesome
[01:16] <seele> if you can't reorder half the menu, how do you present the non-reorderable options from the orderable options?
[01:16] <seele> very complicated, it makes my head hurt
[01:16] <seele> yes, one of the requirements was that it could be turned in to a module
[01:16] <katastrophe> nice
[01:16] <seele> so standalone and integrated
[01:16] <dwidmann> oh yay .... T_T ....... Fair Access Policy Threshold Exceeded: YES
[01:18] <katastrophe> ah i think i heard a podcast with ellen
[01:20] <katastrophe> chaosradio express, number 64
[01:21] <seele> yeah
[01:22] <katastrophe> was really cool
[01:22] <seele> she's in berlin and involved in the berlin UPA and gives talks a few times a year
[01:25] <katastrophe> hm and what do you think about tooltips and help systems such as the kde helpcenter?
[01:27]  * dwidmann votes for "good, when they're there"
[01:30] <Riddell> night all
[01:30] <nosrednaekim> night Riddell
[01:30] <nosrednaekim> good job fillin in for me :P
[01:30] <Riddell> thanks seele, Nightrose, txwikinger
[01:30] <Nightrose> :) thanks to you too
[01:30] <Nightrose> sleep well
[01:31] <txwikinger> thanks Riddell
[01:37] <yuriy> Q&A over?
[01:38] <dwidmann> starting to look that way yuriy
[01:38]  * dwidmann heads off for a shower
[01:38] <yuriy> ah, how did tutorials day go?
[01:39] <Nightrose> very well I'd say
[01:40]  * Nightrose is off to bed
[01:40] <Nightrose> good night folks :)
[01:40] <Jucato> how did the tutorials day go?
[01:40] <Jucato> goodnight night rose
[01:40] <Jucato> er..
[01:40] <Jucato> good night night rose
[01:40] <Jucato> hm.. nvm
[01:40] <Nightrose> ;-)
[01:48] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: went OK I think
[01:50] <Jucato> nosrednaekim: btw what happened to your reply in the kubuntu-devel ML? it was like it was limited to 10-15 characters per line (in KMail)
[02:00] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: my signature?
[02:01] <Jucato> you're whole post. maybe it's just KMail...
[02:01] <nosrednaekim> I thought I turned that off...
[02:05] <Jucato> nosrednaekim: ah it was indeed only kmail... but you still have that sig that tries to spell your nick... maybe that caused it to bork in kmail?
[02:13] <nosrednaekim> well... I send it as HTML
[02:13]  * nosrednaekim ducks
[02:15] <Jucato> :P
[02:21] <vorian> awww man
[02:21] <vorian> missed it
[02:56] <Jucato> nixternal: boo!
[02:56] <Jucato> nixternal: Something for you :P http://jucato.org/stuff/Pater.jpg
[02:59] <daskreEEch> Ah
[02:59] <daskreEEch> pater
[02:59] <Jucato> Latin
[02:59] <daskreEEch> Duh :)
[02:59] <daskreEEch> I read peter :)
[03:00] <daskreEEch> Faith of a mustard seed (ha ha)
[03:00] <nixternal> that's pretty cool Jucato :) thanks!
[03:17] <Jucato> nixternal: what's the latest KDE 4 version in the PPA? and does it install on Intrepid?
[03:19] <jjesse> 4.1 beta is in the ppa
[03:21] <Jucato> ok :)
[03:21] <Jucato> jjesse: btw, what's our doc project (other than adept please :P) for Intrepid?
[03:22] <daskreEEch> Adept. Thank you
[03:22] <daskreEEch> :-)
[03:23]  * daskreEEch votes Plasma
[03:29] <jjesse> Jucato: don't know i think kde docs
[03:29] <jjesse> not quite sure need to start working again :P
[03:30] <Jucato> ah so no idea on the Kubuntu end of things yet?
[03:30] <jjesse> correct
[03:30] <Jucato> ok :)
[03:31] <jjesse> watching a discovery channel thing on nasa and flying in space.... if they could do that in 1960 technology why aren't we further in space these days?
[03:31] <Jucato> $$$
[03:34] <daskreEEch> No one cares about space anymore
[03:36] <jjesse> ak bed time talk to you all later
[03:37] <Jucato> bye jjesse
[03:39] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: i am now.  what's up?
[03:39] <daskreEEch> Hobbsee: ^_^
[03:39] <Hobbsee> daskreEEch!
[03:40]  * daskreEEch adorns Hobbsee with flowers
[03:40] <Jucato> Hobbseedobbsee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[03:40] <Hobbsee> :D
[03:42] <Hobbsee> how'd the sessions go?
[03:43]  * Jucato was sleeping soundlyh
[03:46] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:46] <Hobbsee> so was i
[03:55] <Jucato> no fair! you were supposed to be awake by that time
[03:56] <daskreEEch> Is it up somewhere?
[03:56] <Hobbsee> on !logs, yes
[03:58] <daskreEEch> ok I never recall if they log dev chans
[03:59] <daskreEEch> I suppose they must cause I had this one person in #kubuntu who kept pulilng up things I had said and pasting them in the chan
[03:59] <Hobbsee> ...yya
[04:03] <daskreEEch> Does it make sense to have a plugin structure for a plugin ?
[05:31] <LucidFox> Do new KDE4 applications still go to /usr/lib/kde4?
[05:32] <dwidmann> LucidFox: define new?
[05:32] <LucidFox> Added after the new kdelibs were uploaded to intrepid
[05:36] <LucidFox> I'm currently fixing a build failure in kplayer, which was added in intrepid, and I was wondering whether it should go to /usr or /usr/lib/kde4
[05:38] <dwidmann> LucidFox: hmm, not sure, it looks like kde4 is replacing kde3 in intrepid, so I would assume you'd want it to go to /usr ..... look for an example??
[07:21] <eagles0513875> Nightrose: morning
[07:33] <eagles0513875> Nightrose: morning
[07:34] <eagles0513875> Riddell: how did the pkging seminar go yesterday
[07:34] <eagles0513875> morning Hobbsee
[07:34] <Hobbsee> hi
[08:04] <Nightrose> morning
[08:04] <eagles0513875> morning
[08:05] <eagles0513875> Nightrose: hows u
[08:05] <eagles0513875> *you
[08:05] <Nightrose> sleepy
[08:05] <\sh> apachelogger: did you fixed pykde4 in ppa?
[08:05] <txwikinger> morning
[08:13] <darius12> it is my understanding that in order to implement plasmoids in python you need 2 things;
[08:13] <darius12> 1) Kross python which is a library that allows embedding the python interpreter in the plasma application
[08:14] <darius12> 2) wrappers for the plasma api (should be provided by pykde4)
[08:14] <darius12> the first part looks like it is there but the second doesn't
[08:16] <darius12> exist yet ?
[09:06] <\sh> whoever uploaded python-kde4 to ppa..broke it
[09:06] <\sh>  pykdeuic4 doesn't exist anymore in python-kde4-dev
[09:09] <\sh> fixing it now
[09:48] <\sh> bah
[09:55] <\sh> apachelogger: pingeling
[11:29] <apachelogger> \sh: plong
[11:30] <\sh> apachelogger: can you do the following for pykde4 in kdebindings?
[11:31] <\sh> apachelogger: install symlink from /usr/share/kde4/apps/pykde4/pykdeuic4.py /usr/bin/pykdeuic4 <- make the first one 755 too
[11:31] <apachelogger> \sh: sure
[11:31] <apachelogger> according to stdin there is some more stuff broken
[11:31]  * apachelogger dives in
[11:31] <\sh> apachelogger: and install symlink from /usr/share/kde4/apps/pykde4/kde4.py /usr/lib/python{2.4,2.5}/site-packages/PyQt4/uic/widget-plugins/ make it 755 too
[11:31] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: the problem self-resolved :)
[11:32] <\sh> apachelogger: push it into python-kde4-dev ...:)
[11:32] <eagles0513875> Nightrose: hey
[11:32] <\sh> apachelogger: they are the ui compiler for pykde4
[11:32] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: oh good!
[11:32] <Nightrose> eagles0513875: sorry - dealing with massive traffic on my website right now
[11:32] <apachelogger> \sh: as if one needs that stuff :P
[11:32] <Nightrose> need to redirect some things to other servers
[11:32] <\sh> apachelogger: dang
[11:32] <eagles0513875> Nightrose: do you offer any free hosting
[11:33] <Nightrose> no
[11:33] <\sh> apachelogger: or you move them into python-kde4-tools package or something like that...and recommend them in python-kde4 ;)
[11:33] <apachelogger> \sh: I think the stuff is just missing from the package
[11:33] <apachelogger> I didn't have time to run list-missing
[11:34] <eagles0513875> off to an interview ill be back later
[11:34] <\sh> apachelogger: no it's installed already :)
[11:34] <\sh> apachelogger: but not in the correct places
[11:35] <apachelogger> \sh: well, having the uic not in bin seems rather stupid to me
[11:35] <\sh> apachelogger: yes...but sime installed them in the $DATA dir whysoever..reading the CMakeLists.txt
[11:36] <apachelogger> Oo
[11:36] <apachelogger> oh well
[11:36] <\sh> apachelogger: therefore they are in the shared/kde4/apps dir...(which is wrong by default ;))
[11:36] <\sh> apachelogger: actually you symlink them to the right position, or just remove them and install them from $SOURCETREE/tools/ to the correct locations :)
[11:37]  * apachelogger runs the >1h build for bindings
[11:37] <apachelogger> we will see
[11:39] <\sh> apachelogger: thx...I would have done it myself..but I'm busy at work and with leonov...
[11:40]  * apachelogger likes the new animations in the trunk splashscreen
[11:41] <apachelogger> oh
[11:41] <apachelogger> there are now java kross bindings
[11:52] <nixternal> good mornin'
[11:52] <Riddell> nixternal: did you win at golf?
[11:53] <nixternal> oh no, I got badly whooped
[11:59] <jussi01> eh-heh! :P
[12:00] <Nightrose> heya nixternal ;-)
[12:03]  * apachelogger made Nightrose steal nixternal's talk *giggles*
[12:06] <Nightrose> :P
[12:06]  * Nightrose writes angry mail to website hoster  *grummel*
[12:08] <nixternal> hehe, thanks Nightrose
[12:08] <Nightrose> you're welcome - was not to difficult to adept your last talk
[12:10] <nixternal> groovy
[12:25] <eagles0513875> Nightrose: back
[12:26] <eagles0513875> nixternal: got a question for you
[12:33] <nixternal> eagles0513875: what's up?
[12:34] <eagles0513875> nixternal: there used to be a wiki pg that had a list of stuff that one needs to have on their machine for bug fixing
[12:34] <eagles0513875> do you know what the link is by any chance
[12:40] <Nightrose> eagles0513875: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
[12:40] <Nightrose> as I told you yesterday
[12:45] <\sh> apachelogger: since the pykde4 update..my qtdesigner doesn't show any menu texts anymore ;)
[12:45] <\sh> apachelogger: but all kde4 python apps are showing it now ;)
[12:46] <\sh> apachelogger: and changing back to something else then oxygen it works ;)
[13:18] <apachelogger> \sh: rubykde4 works :P
[13:42] <eagles0513875> Nightrose: everything ok on your site
[13:56] <\sh> apachelogger: give me a fixed pykde4 version ;)
[14:27] <\sh> apachelogger: what was the channel of OBS?
[14:28] <apachelogger> eh
[14:28] <apachelogger> \sh: #opensuse-buildservice
[14:29] <\sh> apachelogger: thank you :)
[14:29] <apachelogger> yw
[14:31] <\sh> apachelogger: btw...kdebindings/pykde4 ...fixed? ;)
[14:32] <apachelogger> \sh: no
[14:32] <apachelogger> I am fighting with new files
[14:39] <chfwiggum> hi everyone
[14:39] <Riddell> hi chfwiggum
[14:44] <Xand3r> hi i have packaged screenie, can some one review it? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=screenie-qt
[14:45] <Riddell> Xand3r: looks like you have a comment already
[14:46] <Xand3r> one right, but maybe there is more, than i fix everything at one time
[14:54] <ScottK> Xand3r: Generally MOTU won't review a package with outstanding comments.
[14:55] <Xand3r> kk
[14:56] <ScottK> How did the Kubuntu tutorial day go?
[14:58] <Artemis_Fowl> :(
[14:59]  * Artemis_Fowl missed it
[14:59] <Artemis_Fowl> too late hours....
[14:59] <Artemis_Fowl> there were some sessions I would like to watch
[15:00] <Riddell> there's logs
[15:01] <Artemis_Fowl> y
[15:03] <Nightrose> Riddell: will there be other logs than the one in !logs? cause I'll be blogging sometime today and could mention them
[15:04] <Riddell> Nightrose: yes see KubuntuTutorialsDay
[15:05] <Nightrose> alright
[15:41] <apachelogger> hm
[15:48] <jussi01> Are there any packagers here interested in packaging a library for me?
[15:48] <Nightrose> apachelogger: ^
[15:49] <Nightrose> jussi01: he was looking for new packaging to teach someone
[15:49] <jussi01> hehe
[15:49] <apachelogger> jussi01: what lib are we talking about?
[15:49] <jussi01> apachelogger: http://breakfastquay.com/rubberband/
[15:51] <apachelogger> I am not sure my current padawans are at that level yet
[15:51] <apachelogger> Xand3r: do you wanna give it a shot?
[15:52] <Xand3r> what??
[15:52] <smarter> hey there
[15:52] <apachelogger> Xand3r: http://breakfastquay.com/rubberband/
[15:52] <apachelogger> hey smarter
[15:52] <apachelogger> maybe smarter wants to try packaging it ;-)
[15:52] <smarter> hey apachelogger
[15:52] <jussi01> apachelogger: its needed because we want to update sooperlooper
[15:52]  * smarter looks
[15:53] <apachelogger> Xand3r: basically like screenie, but you would hav eto split the files into various binary packages
[15:53] <apachelogger> *have to
[15:53] <Xand3r> urg
[15:53] <apachelogger> jussi01: either way, please file a needs-packaging bug
[15:54] <jussi01> apachelogger: was just doing that ;)
[15:54] <apachelogger> k
[15:54] <apachelogger> hm
[15:55] <apachelogger> jussi01: I am not sure we can package that all right now
[15:55] <jussi01> apachelogger: for what reason?
[15:57] <apachelogger> vamp-sdk is not packaged
[15:57] <apachelogger> at last I can't find any trace of it
[15:57] <jussi01> oh, doh!
[15:58] <apachelogger> vamp looks rather easy though
[15:59] <apachelogger> jussi01: please file a needs-packging for it as well http://www.vamp-plugins.org/develop.html
[15:59] <jussi01> apachelogger: sure
[16:00] <apachelogger> Xand3r, smarter: who is going to package which software? :P
[16:01] <Xand3r> wich is the easyer one?
[16:01] <apachelogger> both pretty equal
[16:01] <smarter> I'll let Xand3r choose ;)
[16:01] <jussi01> bug 240416
[16:03] <Xand3r> i take the first one, http://breakfastquay.com/rubberband/
[16:05] <smarter> then I need to package the other one first
[16:05] <jussi01> apachelogger:  bug 186284 already exists
[16:06] <jussi01> :)
[16:06] <smarter> oh, the package already exist in Debian
[16:06] <smarter> http://packages.debian.org/sid/vamp-plugin-sdk
[16:07] <jussi01> yay :)
[16:07] <apachelogger> oh
[16:08] <apachelogger> smarter: lucky you :D
[16:08] <apachelogger> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vamp-plugin-sdk
[16:08] <smarter> :P
[16:08] <jussi01> :D
[16:09] <apachelogger> Xand3r: I hope you got your pbuilder setup ready :)
[16:09] <Jucato> seele: congrats!!! ^_^
[16:09]  * smarter tries to fix vamp-sdk FTBFS
[16:10] <apachelogger> smarter: you better suceed on that, otherweise Xand3r get bored :P
[16:11]  * jussi01 hugs smarter
[16:14] <apachelogger> meh
[16:14] <apachelogger> on hardy it compiles
[16:14] <apachelogger> :S
[16:14] <smarter> it's due to intrepid new compiler flags
[16:14] <seele> Jucato: thanks :)
[16:14] <smarter> I'm adding the missing includes
[16:15] <apachelogger> stupid compiler flags
[16:22] <smarter> apachelogger: the fix should be available in Debian in two days
[16:22]  * apachelogger hands smarter a cookie
[16:23] <smarter> It's a gcc 4.3 "feature", Xand3r will have to wait till the package is imported in Ubuntu ;)
[16:23] <Xand3r> what?
[16:23] <Xand3r> ooooh
[16:23] <Xand3r> ^^
[16:25] <apachelogger> Xand3r: please assign bug 240416 to youself
[16:26] <Xand3r> apachelogger: kk
[16:26] <jussi01> Wow, you guys are fast! thanks again :D
[16:27] <jussi01> apachelogger: Xand3ryou will get it into debian first?
[16:27] <apachelogger> jussi01: now you know why I want a packagers force :)
[16:27] <apachelogger> jussi01: no
[16:29] <jussi01> apachelogger: ok. but it will go to debian? or?
[16:31] <jussi01> apachelogger: reason I ask is I want to get the sooper looper debian maintainer to update it once rubberband gets in
[16:32] <apachelogger> jussi01: update what?
[16:32] <apachelogger> sooper looper?
[16:32] <jussi01> yes
[16:32] <jussi01> it depends on rubberband
[16:32] <apachelogger> well
[16:32] <jussi01> the new version
[16:32] <apachelogger> if someone cares for the debian upload
[16:33] <jussi01> apachelogger: if thats not possible, Ill just update sooperlooper myself here in ubuntu
[16:33] <apachelogger> jussi01: you just need someone to upload it to ubuntu
[16:33] <apachelogger> err
[16:33] <apachelogger> debian
[16:34] <jussi01> apachelogger: ahh, ok. Ill see if I can find a dd for thast
[16:54] <jussi01> heya persia
[16:55] <persia> Hi jussi01
[16:55] <persia> Xand3r: You're seeking to get the rubberband library into Debian?
[16:55] <jussi01> apachelogger: ^^
[16:56] <Xand3r> persia: no ubuntu
[16:56] <persia> Ah.  That's easier then :)
[16:56] <persia> You've already prepared the package, or still working on it?
[16:56] <apachelogger> persia: not even started, vamp-plugin-sdk needs to sync from debian first
[16:56] <Xand3r> i have to wait for smarter
[16:57] <jussi01> persia:  I wanted to have it in debian so the sooperlooper maintainer would update sooperlooper for us
[16:57] <persia> OK.  I understand.
[16:57] <jussi01> persia: smarter is fixing a ftbfs in one of the deps
[16:57] <persia> For targeting Ubuntu, the REVU process tends to work OK.
[16:58] <persia> For Debian, you'll want to follow a slightly different process.
[16:58] <persia> Is there already an ITP?
[16:58] <smarter> jussi01: I'm not the one who fixed it ;)
[16:58] <jussi01> persia: I havent yet looked
[16:58] <jussi01> smarter: oh :D
[16:58] <jussi01> oops
[16:59] <persia> jussi01: That'd be the first step.  Check for an RFP or ITP bug against wnpp in the BTS.
[17:00] <jussi01> persia: you going to have to remind me of all those acronyms again, as I havent touched this stuff for ages
[17:02] <persia> jussi01: Request for Packaging, Intent to Package, Work Needing and Prospective Packages, Bug Tracking System.
[17:03] <jussi01> persia: ok, thank you ;) WHere would I look for these things?
[17:03] <persia> jussi01: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkg&data=wnpp&archive=no&version=&dist=unstable
[17:05] <jussi01> persia: oooh, it has an itp :) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=457480
[17:09] <persia> jussi01: Looks like it will be in soon then: no need for anyone to do anything.  Free has already poked SZÉKELYI about it.  Should be uploaded in a few days.
[17:09] <jussi01> persia: fantastic - so that means Xand3r can relax?
[17:09] <Xand3r> ^^
[17:11] <persia> Follow the ITP.  If it doesn't get uploaded in a week or two, you might want to poke the bug again (if nobody else does).
[17:33] <mvo> what package has dcopidl nowdays with kde4
[17:33] <mvo> ?
[17:35] <yuriy> mvo: don't know what it is, but sinse it has "dcop" in it, I would guess none
[17:53] <genii> Hi. For openpgp on launchpad, on the --send-key step, does it want then the 40 digit one or the pubkey?
[18:06] <Riddell> genii: you should be able to use your e-mail address
[18:08] <stdin> genii: the one you get from "gpg --fingerprint <key-id>"
[18:08] <stdin> genii: ahh, no, I'm wrong :p
[18:09] <stdin> genii: it's just the public key eg: CFE36519
[18:10] <genii> stdin: OK. And when it whines about keyserver use keyserver.ubuntu.com ?
[18:11] <stdin> genii: yeah I use keyserver.ubuntu.com, but any keyserver will do, they all sync from each other
[18:11] <genii> OK
[18:13] <genii> Gah. on the --fingerprint step it's whining now about no public key found
[18:14] <dwidmann> erm, umm, yay -- http://ubuntu.pastebin.us/?show=d491dca7e
[18:17] <stdin> the dl module should come with python
[18:18] <stdin> $ python -c "import dl; print dl"
[18:18] <stdin> <module 'dl' from '/usr/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload/dl.so'>
[18:18] <stdin> python2.5: /usr/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload/dl.so
[18:19] <dwidmann> same import error with that one liner
[18:20] <dwidmann> any ideas stdin?
[18:20] <stdin> reinstall python2.5 maybe
[18:21] <stdin> no clue about why it's happening
[18:21] <stdin> first check /usr/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload/dl.so exists
[18:21] <dwidmann> stdin: while I'm reinstalling and checking, can you do a quick dpkg -S on that file
[18:22] <Riddell> dwidmann: are you in intrepid?
[18:22] <stdin> dwidmann: did, see the line after "<module"
[18:22] <dwidmann> uggh, seeing as I'm fap'd, this may take a long while.
[18:22] <dwidmann> Hardy
[18:22] <Riddell> dwidmann: dpkg -S says it's from python2.5
[18:23] <dwidmann> That's fun.
[18:24] <genii> stdin: OK, got it sorted out now
[18:25] <dwidmann> Riddell: stdin: http://ubuntu.pastebin.us/?show=d894a090
[18:26] <stdin> dwidmann: do you have python2.4?
[18:28] <dwidmann> stdin: no, I don't
[18:28] <dwidmann> (I'm lagging really bad right now ... I don't even know how I'm still connected ... I hate Hughesnet)
[18:28] <stdin> dwidmann: what does 'python --version' show?
[18:29] <dwidmann> python 2.5.2
[18:29] <stdin> something odd has happened then, you have python but no python package installed :/
[18:30] <dwidmann> stdin: python is installed and working, with the exception of that module.
[18:30] <stdin> not according to the dpkg --list command
[18:31] <dwidmann> stdin: that's because I'm messing with it at the moment :)
[18:31] <stdin> did you see if /usr/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload/dl.so exists?
[18:31] <dwidmann> forgot that when I did that I was in the middle of sudo apt-get install --reinstall python2.5
[18:32] <dwidmann> the dir exists, and has lots of files, but not that one
[18:33] <stdin> strange
[18:33]  * dwidmann gets an idea
[18:34] <dwidmann> http://ubuntu.pastebin.us/?show=d7a60082a
[18:34] <dwidmann> that is dpkg -L python2.5
[18:35] <Riddell> >dpkg -L python2.5 | grep dl.so
[18:35] <Riddell> /usr/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload/dl.so
[18:36] <Riddell> version 2.5.2-2ubuntu5
[18:36] <Riddell> are you on an obscure architecture?
[18:36] <stdin> dwidmann: http://stdin.pastebin.com/d5ab7e66
[18:36] <dwidmann> hmmmm, 2.5.2-2ubuntu4 here
[18:37] <dwidmann> obscure? No, unless you're going to say x86_64 is obscure ...
[18:38] <Riddell> mm, logging into my amd64 it does indeed lack dl
[18:39] <dwidmann> lack of dl = no pykde :(
[18:39] <\sh> Riddell: intrepid?
[18:40] <Riddell> \sh: hardy
[18:40] <\sh> hmmm?
[18:41] <\sh> Riddell: yes no dl.so
[18:41] <\sh> but pykde just working ;)
[18:41] <Riddell> pykde works fine
[18:41] <\sh> dwidmann: why do you say no dl.so no pykde?
[18:42] <dwidmann> okay, here's what I meant to say, from PyKDE4.kdecore import * wants it
[18:43] <\sh> dwidmann: one component wants it...we have to find out which component...but right, missing dl.so from py2.5 on amd64 is a bug
[18:45] <stdin> 'from PyKDE4 import *' import dl and sys
[18:45] <stdin> imports*
[18:45] <dwidmann> /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/PyKDE4/__init__.py is where it's mentioned
[18:46] <\sh> strange
[18:46] <dwidmann> I think.
[18:46] <apachelogger> \sh: uploading kde4bindings
[18:47] <\sh> apachelogger: go dude
[18:47]  * stdin has noticed /usr/share/pyshared/PyKDE4/ also disappeared
[18:47] <SynthroidMan> http://synthroid.co.uk/
[18:47] <apachelogger> stdin: beta1 is pretty b0rked
[18:47] <stdin> more fun that way :)
[18:48] <stdin> ^ did we just get spammed?
[18:48] <apachelogger> kdebindings ain't fun at all :S
[18:48] <apachelogger> stdin: we did
[18:49] <stdin> wow, we must be getting popular :P
[18:49] <apachelogger> hm, that drug looks like a drug
[18:50] <apachelogger> \sh: did you revu screenie yet?
[18:50] <\sh> is it good?
[18:50] <\sh> apachelogger: I'll do it just now...let me eat something first
[18:50] <apachelogger> fair enough
[18:51] <\sh> hmm...
[18:51] <\sh> give me the revu link again, pls :)
[18:51] <\sh> apachelogger: http://leonov.tv/content/latest-draft-logo-version-2 it's getting better :)
[18:52] <apachelogger> \sh: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=screenie-qt
[18:52] <apachelogger> \sh: I say - hrrrhrrrr
[18:53] <apachelogger> \sh: I wonder how a small version would look like though
[18:53] <\sh> apachelogger: it will be svg ... so we can scale up or down ;)
[18:54] <apachelogger> well
[18:54] <apachelogger> that draft
[18:55] <apachelogger> looks like shit at 16x16
[18:55] <apachelogger> tbh
[18:55] <\sh> hehe
[18:55] <\sh> apachelogger: btw...is it now GPL v2 or GPL v3?
[18:55] <apachelogger> \sh: v2
[18:55] <apachelogger> dunno why upstream included a gpl3 copy
[18:55] <\sh> apachelogger: so the debian/copyright is wrong
[18:55] <apachelogger> it is?
[18:56] <\sh> the link to GPL points to GPL-3
[18:56] <apachelogger> \sh: it's gpl2+
[18:56] <apachelogger> so gpl-3 is as valid
[18:56] <\sh> apachelogger: at my option when I fork the code
[18:57] <\sh> apachelogger: in my opinion debian/copyright just tells the actualy license of upstream, which means two
[18:57] <\sh> two+ but yeah
[18:57] <apachelogger> matter of interpretation IMO
[18:57] <\sh> right
[18:57] <apachelogger> Xand3r: go fix it
[18:59] <\sh> apachelogger: do we need to list get-orig-source deps as well in control? ;)
[18:59] <\sh> ok..it'salso interpretation ;)
[19:00] <apachelogger> \sh: why would we list it in control?
[19:01] <\sh> make debian/rules get-orig-source without git failes
[19:01] <apachelogger> yeah, I thought about that
[19:02] <apachelogger> but IMO it only slows down building
[19:02] <apachelogger> and whoever wants to update the tarball will hopefully know how to install git ;-)
[19:02]  * apachelogger just notices that he didn't finish revuing either
[19:04] <Xand3r> what i have to fix?
[19:05] <apachelogger> Xand3r: debian/copyright provides an URL to GPL (which currently links to GPL-3), \sh wants the URL to be for GPL-2
[19:05] <Xand3r> ^^
[19:05] <Xand3r> ok i will fix it
[19:05] <\sh> Xand3r: but afterall...advocated
[19:05] <\sh> Xand3r: well done little one :)
[19:06] <Xand3r> ^^
[19:06] <apachelogger> \sh: I think Xand3r still has some changes
[19:06] <apachelogger> something in debian/rules wasn't right
[19:06] <Xand3r> changes?
[19:06]  * apachelogger opens his notes
[19:06] <\sh> oh...
[19:06] <\sh> damn.
[19:06] <\sh> didn't testbuild it ;)
[19:06] <apachelogger> I did
[19:06] <\sh> removed
[19:06] <\sh> ;)
[19:07] <apachelogger> Xand3r: did you add DEB_UPSTREAM_VERSION to the debian/rules?
[19:07]  * \sh is more frightened about missing dl.so 
[19:07] <apachelogger> poor dl.so
[19:07] <apachelogger> oh
[19:07] <\sh> apachelogger: pykde4 doesn't work for more people
[19:07] <apachelogger> I have to leave in some minutes
[19:07] <apachelogger> \sh: as I said
[19:07] <apachelogger> it's b0rked
[19:07] <Xand3r> apachelogger: i think so
[19:08] <\sh> apachelogger: it's da python
[19:08] <apachelogger> Xand3r: well, check :P
[19:08] <apachelogger> then upload
[19:08] <Xand3r> but i will check it to
[19:09] <\sh> where's doko when someone needs him ;)
[19:12] <apachelogger> \sh: btw, should you get bored, monkeystudio also needs revuing ;-)
[19:13] <Xand3r> apachelogger: qutIM is now on REVU
[19:13] <Xand3r> now i check screenie
[19:13] <\sh> apachelogger: do you remember...tonight we kick your folks from the field ;) so in around 15-25 mins I'm gone into the local pub and watch your folks going down ,->
[19:13] <Xand3r> ^^
[19:13] <apachelogger> I should leave as well
[19:14]  * apachelogger has a rendez-vous
[19:14] <apachelogger> Xand3r: the source package isn't named like that, is it?
[19:14] <Xand3r> ?
[19:15] <apachelogger> upper case IM
[19:15] <Xand3r> no
[19:15] <apachelogger> ok :)
[19:15] <Xand3r> but the binary
[19:16] <apachelogger> not ok
[19:16] <apachelogger> Xand3r: change and reupload
[19:16] <Xand3r> shit
[19:16] <apachelogger> Xand3r: everything should be lower case
[19:16]  * apachelogger has to leave
[19:16] <apachelogger> laters
[19:16] <Xand3r> first i fix screenie
[19:16] <Xand3r> cya apachelogger
[19:16] <Xand3r> have fun
[19:17] <Xand3r> \sh: i have to change /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL to usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2 ??
[19:17] <\sh> Xand3r: yes
[19:17] <Xand3r> kk
[19:20] <Riddell> seele: you're getting married!
[19:21] <nixternal> ooh?
[19:21] <nixternal> congrats seele! \o/
[19:22] <\sh> Riddell: I'll file a bug against py2.5
[19:24] <Riddell> \sh: I would check with doko first if it is a bug
[19:25] <\sh> Riddell: regarding ruby which has dl.so ;)
[19:25] <nixternal> hrmm, anyone know if I can set kickstart to utilize UTC even though UTC isn't a time zone?
[19:25] <\sh> Riddell: finally, better one bugreport too many ... and I wonder why pykde4 needs it
[19:26] <\sh> remind me tomorrow when I sit on a i386 machine
[19:34] <\sh> DAMN
[19:35]  * \sh has the fix 
[19:35] <\sh> stdin, dwidmann: http://www.mail-archive.com/pyqt@riverbankcomputing.com/msg13554.html
[19:35]  * dwidmann clicks
[19:36] <|gunni|> Riddell: May i ask you a question about packaging?
[19:36] <Riddell> |gunni|: sure
[19:38] <Arby>  Riddell: packages on lichts all updated as requested
[19:38] <|gunni|> I read the tutorialsday log, and tried to build my own package. I used mythtv-backend, so apt-get source mythtvbackend, and debuild seem to work (only it complyins about key, but .deb get build)
[19:38] <|gunni|> But trying to build the sourcepackage with debuild -S -sa gives http://pastebin.org/44014
[19:38] <Xand3r> \sh: can you look at this one to? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=qutim
[19:39] <Riddell> |gunni|: it's a bug in the packaging, I expect  rm programs/firewire_tester/firewire_tester.c   would fix it
[19:41] <|gunni|> So its only related to source package building, and usual building works?
[19:41]  * Arby picks something else from extragear
[19:42] <\sh> Riddell: what was the magic to apply a quilt patch only for a single arch?
[19:42] <Riddell> |gunni|: yes.  somewhere in the building process it creates a symlink that doesn't get removed in the clean process and that upsets the packaging tools
[19:43] <dwidmann> \sh: thank you very much, that fix does the trick.
[19:44] <\sh> dwidmann: yepp..
[19:44] <|gunni|> k i will try that. One question mor: Does that private key message has any effect?
[19:44] <stdin> \sh: doesn't break on x86, so it gets my vote :)
[19:44] <Riddell> |gunni|: no, it just means it isn't gpg signed but that's only a problem if you're uploading it somewhere
[19:45] <\sh> stdin: it's not for x86 :)
[19:45] <\sh> stdin: only for archs which don't support dl.so
[19:45] <|gunni|> I maybe want to upload to a ppa ... can i get rid of that signing?
[19:45] <stdin> \sh: yes, but it works on 32bit so we don't have to worry about breaking it to get it working on 64
[19:46] <|gunni|> Thats why i wanted to do the source package
[19:47] <\sh> stdin: ok...:)
[19:52]  * \sh 's pushing new kdebinding packages to ppa
[19:56] <\sh> stdin: Subject: [PPA kubuntu-members-kde4] Accepted: kde4bindings 4:4.0.80-0ubuntu2~hardy0~ppa3 (source)
[19:59] <Arby> Riddell: your comment on taking the cdbs files from kde4libs.
[19:59] <Arby> Riddell does that apply for everything on ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/4.0.80/src/extragear/ ?
[20:00] <\sh> seele: congrats :) hopefully the ring on your finger looks pretty ;)
[20:39] <_CrashMaster_> Is this the place to recommend ideas for Kubuntu?
[20:41] <judith_h> i guess it couldn#t be wrong
[20:41] <judith_h> :)
[20:42] <_CrashMaster_> Indeed. Anyway, my suggestion: In the installer, during the bit where it asks for your time zone / city, why not put a drop-down where the user can actually select their specific time zone.
[20:43] <_CrashMaster_> That way, I don't have to spend 20 minutes trying to click a little dot and praying it's the right timezone
[20:47] <Riddell> Arby: yes
[20:51] <genii> OK I'm new to PPA. Is it possible to just add an i386  deb file I've created to it?
[20:53] <Riddell> genii: no, you can only upload source and it'll compile it for you
[20:54] <Riddell> _CrashMaster_: there is a dropdown
[20:54] <_CrashMaster_> I saw a drop down for CITY, but the TIME ZONE box didn't have one. It would auto-populate based on the city selected..
[20:56] <Riddell> I don't understand, a city represents a timezone
[20:57] <_CrashMaster_> Riddell: Yes, if you happen to know the particular cities in your timezone, as presented by the installer.
[20:57] <genii> Riddell: Hmm. OK. I had made pdfedit on my box for instance of 0.4.1 for Hardy since it seemed not yet to exist.
[20:58] <_CrashMaster_> What I'm recommending is that I simply be able to select "CST' or "GMT-5" without having to identify another city in that timezone.
[20:59] <Arby> Riddell for kmldonkey there is this in debian/rules http://paste.ubuntu.com/20703/
[20:59] <Riddell> Arby: it doesn't look like you've got the current kde.mk still
[20:59] <Arby> oh, strange
[21:00] <Riddell> Arby: scrap everything from "#For Kubuntu paths" down
[21:00] <Arby> thought so
[21:00] <aos101> Riddell: Can you have a look at bug 199393?  I assume the comment by Daniel Holbach is referring to you looking at it.  I've uploaded a debdiff for Intrepid and I think a SRU for hardy would be appropriate.
[21:00]  * Arby goes to investigate
[21:01] <Riddell> Arby: http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/cdbs/
[21:01] <Arby> Riddell thanks
[21:02] <Arby> commence mass rebuild
[21:03] <Riddell> aos101: that looks good, we don't need it for intrepid though since that'll switch to KDE 4, can you make the debdiff for hardy-proposed ?
[21:03] <Riddell> aos101: just the same but hardy-proposed and ubuntu6.1 not ubuntu7 version
[21:04] <aos101> Riddell: OK, I wasn't sure if the KDE3 version would hang around.  I'll do that debdiff and upload it to the bug report.
[21:12] <aos101> Riddell: Debdiff uploaded to bug report.  One question - why are ubuntu point versions (like 6.1) used instead of full versions?  Is it just used for small changes to packages?
[21:14] <Riddell> aos101: that's what we use for stable release updates
[21:15] <Riddell> aos101: otherwise you end up with a version number that would normally be used in intrepid (although here it doesn't matter since dolphin's version number is changing upstream)
[21:17] <aos101> Riddell: Ah, Ok.  That makes sense.  Otherwise you'd have to bump the version in the development version, and that would be kind of silly.
[21:17] <aos101> I'd just seen it done, and never really knew why.
[21:31] <Riddell> aos101: patch looks great, I've uploaded
[21:31] <Riddell> aos101: it'll need pitti to approve it, also please add a test case to the bug
[21:41] <seele> \sh: lol it does, thanks
[21:47] <aos101> Riddell: Added test case.
[21:56] <gnomefreak> has kde4 been worked out in Intrepid yet?
[21:56] <gnomefreak> if not what can i do to help it along?
[21:57] <Riddell> gnomefreak: you could package guidance-power-manager if you know how to package python
[21:58] <gnomefreak> no havent done python yet other than writing some simple scripts but never packaged a python app :(
[21:59] <Riddell> Arby: you seem to have renamed dh_sameversiondeps to dh_sameversionSdeps ?
[21:59] <Arby> oh dammit
[21:59] <Arby> I thought I fixed that
[21:59] <Arby> Riddell which package
[21:59] <Arby> ?
[22:00] <Riddell> Arby: the kcoloredit I took from lichts about 15 minutes ago
[22:00] <Riddell> maybe you fixed it in the mean time
[22:00]  * gnomefreak makes note to learn packaging python on my to-do-list so maybe in future i would be more yhelpful
[22:00] <Arby> right I'll fix it
[22:00] <Arby> Riddell no not that one
[22:01] <Arby> Riddell I think I fixed the others
[22:01] <Arby> let me know if not
[22:04] <Arby> Riddell fixed kcoloredit
[22:20] <Arby> Riddell Is kopete-cryptography new I can't find it on launchpad?
[22:21] <Arby> according to revu you uploaded it in december
[22:21] <Riddell> I did?
[22:22] <Arby> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=1053
[22:23] <Riddell> Arby: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kopete-cryptography-kde4 there's an entry for it but no versions, maybe it got rejected
[22:23] <Arby> so it needs packaging from scratch?
[22:24] <Riddell> Arby: you can use the packaging from that version in revu
[22:24] <Riddell> the question is why did it get rejected
[22:24] <Riddell> can't find any reason in ubuntu-archive
[22:25] <Riddell> Arby: maybe it just didn't work at the time
[22:25] <Riddell> update the packaging and try it out
[22:25] <Arby> ok will do
[22:26] <Riddell> stdin, apachelogger: either of you remember anything about kopete-cryptography-kde4?
[22:27] <apachelogger> hm
[22:28] <apachelogger> Riddell: I revued it, that's about everything I can remember
[22:28] <stdin> just that you an apachelogger said it was good for upload back when
[22:29] <apachelogger> Riddell: screenie-qt waiting for you in new :)
[22:29] <apachelogger> Arby: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=kopete-cryptography-kde4
[22:30] <Arby> apachelogger: yes, I know. but it seems it never got published after that
[22:30] <Arby> how do I extract the packaging info from the revu version?
[22:31] <Riddell> download the files, dpkg-source -x *dsc
[22:32] <apachelogger> Arby: easiest way is to install dget and then run dget on the dsc file
[22:32] <Riddell> Arby: kcoloredit and kgrab uploaded
[22:33] <Arby> Riddell thanks
[22:34] <Riddell> Arby: kiconedit and kio_gopher still to have kde.mk updated?
[22:35] <Arby> checking
[22:36] <Arby> rebuilding
[22:39] <Riddell> Arby: kmldonkey uploaded
[22:39] <Arby> thnkas
[22:39] <Arby> *thanks
[22:46] <Arby> Riddell: kiconedit and kio_gopher should be updated now
[22:46] <Arby> I hope
[22:47] <Riddell> Arby: kiconedit still has the old bits
[22:47] <Arby> ok that's just
[22:47] <Arby> odd
[22:53] <Riddell> Arby: ok, problem has occured with kio-gopher
[22:53] <Riddell> Arby: I spotted an rfc in there and they are non-free
[22:53] <Riddell> Arby: it needs the .orig.tar.gz rebuilt without that rfc file
[22:53] <Arby> what is an rfc file?
[22:54] <Riddell> internet standard
[22:54] <Riddell> alas, they can't be modified
[22:55] <Arby> so what do I need to do? extract, delete rfc, compress and rebuild?
[22:55] <Riddell> Arby: yep
[22:56] <Riddell> I'll delete it from svn
[23:01] <Arby> Riddell: kiconedit should be sorted now
[23:01] <Arby> I'll do kio_gopher next
[23:08] <Arby> Riddell: kio_gopher rebuilt as well
[23:12] <Arby> let me know if there are problems
[23:12] <Arby> that's me for the night
[23:13] <Riddell> thanks Arby, top work
[23:13] <Arby> I'll figure out kopete-cryptography and maybe the rest of extragear tomorrow
[23:13] <Arby> welcome :)
[23:30] <genii> If I'm getting "No such Launchpad account: {name here}" trying to push some files, what would be the likely cause? Bad ssh key?
[23:34] <stdin> push to what?
[23:35] <genii> stdin: To bazaar
[23:35] <stdin> what url are you pushing to?
[23:36] <genii> stdin: bzr push sftp://{my name here}@bazaar.launchpad.net/~mystic-scientist/+junk/pdfedit-0.4.1
[23:37] <genii> Maybe the +junk needs right after the .net/ part
[23:37] <genii> stdin: I've been messing with this all day as you know ;)
[23:38] <stdin> try using bzr+ssh://
[23:38] <genii> OK
[23:39] <genii> "bzr: ERROR: Unsupported protocol"
[23:39] <stdin> what version of bzr do you have?
[23:40] <stdin> "bzr version"
[23:41] <genii> apt-cache policy: Installed: 1.3.1-1ubuntu0.1                   bzr version: Bazaar (bzr) 1.3.1 (and too much to paste regarding python, etc)
[23:41] <stdin> hmm, should work then (I think)
[23:42] <genii> I'm thinking when I pasted in my ssh key something went weird (since it seemed to word-wrap but not certain if thats normal)
[23:43] <stdin> see if "bzr push lp:~mystic-scientist/+junk/pdfedit-0.4.1" works
[23:43] <genii> The sftp:/ method seems to try but fail etc
[23:43] <stdin> if not then something "not good" happened
[23:44] <genii> stdin: Weird. 1 minute trying lp:
[23:45] <genii> Bah. "bzr: ERROR: Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()"
[23:45]  * genii makes more coffee
[23:46] <genii> Maybe I'll try to add another ssh key
[23:50] <stdin> bzr+ssh:// seems to be working for me anyway (same bzr version)
[23:50] <stdin> genii: you did use mystic-scientist as the "{my name here}" part, right?
[23:51] <genii> stdin: No, my Launchpad name is different than where the files are stored (at least as far as I know)
[23:51] <stdin> isn't mystic-scientist your LP id?
[23:51] <genii> No
[23:51] <stdin> so why are you pushing there?
[23:52] <genii> stdin: Because thats where my files are :)
[23:52] <stdin> then who is mystic-scientist?
[23:52] <stdin> only the owner can push to their +junk
[23:53] <genii> Hmm. So If I can login to Launchpad under my "Display Name" it won't matter, I need to push under the other one?
[23:54] <stdin> what do you mean?
[23:54] <genii> stdin: I login with name Kaulbach
[23:55] <genii> If I go for example to "Change Account Details" it shows that as my "Display Name" but then shows underneath "Name" as mystic-scientist
[23:56] <genii> But I don't login as that.
[23:56] <stdin> Display Name is just what your displayed, it's not your login ID
[23:57] <stdin> my 'Display Name' is "Terence Simpson", but my ID is tsimpson
[23:57] <genii> OK. Trying again with sftp and adjustments :)
[23:58] <genii> Bah.