[00:02] <boredandblogging> yeah, I don't think we need to worry about issues like that yet
[00:02] <hubuntu> ok, good
[00:02] <hubuntu> :)
[00:34] <owh> pep: Ping
[00:34] <pep> pong
[00:34] <pep> hubuntu jsut left
[00:34] <pep> jsut*
[00:35] <pep> ahh
[00:35] <pep> just*
[00:35] <pep> just sent you an email..
[00:35] <owh> pep: Just asked in #LP about team vs. project. A team cannot have bugs against itself. The idea is that a team owns a project and the project has bugs.
[00:35] <pep> yes
[00:35] <owh> Have we asked jenda?
[00:36] <pep> we will have to see on getting the original spreadubuntu project assigned to the spreadubuntu team
[00:36] <pep> [01:35] <owh> Have we asked jenda? that is the next step indeed
[00:36] <pep> he has been afk...
[00:36]  * owh has a little fossick around to check the TZ for jenda.
[00:36] <pep> as I said, former contributors to DIYWebsite and previous SU will help us advance now
[00:37] <owh> Prague, so UTC +2
[00:37] <pep> we must meet in here to make the point around this
[00:37] <pep> yes, like me, it is 01:37
[00:37] <pep> time to sleep
[00:37] <pep> so I'm going offline too now...
[00:38] <owh> Cool, ok, well, I'll start logging bugs against the project instead :)
[00:38] <owh> Or is that a bad idea?
[00:38] <pep> I don't know.. the project is not yet adapted to our new objectives I think...
[00:39] <pep> best wait for all this LP, and administrative/communications blabla to be set up and running
[00:39] <owh> Cool, I'll get on with my tax accounting then. Sleep well.
[00:39] <pep> but you can make a subpage of the wiki to draft if you want
[00:39] <pep> thx, see you ;)
[00:40]  * pep realises that it's way to late xD
[09:46] <owh> 'lo all
[09:47] <owh> ping pep, hubuntu
[09:47] <pep> hoi
[09:47] <owh> Hiya.
[09:48] <owh> Had a conversation with Flannel this morning, we now have a common understanding of how we think it all hangs together.
[09:48] <pep> good!
[09:48] <owh> He may have sent an email to hubuntu, or not yet, it was late for him :)
[09:48] <hubuntu> hei owh 
[09:48] <owh> Hiya
[09:49] <owh> So, the conversation with Flannel went a little like this:
[09:49] <hubuntu> pep explained, and I think we all agree in the way things are now
[09:49] <hubuntu> yes, please
[09:49] <owh> What Flannel and I weren't sure of was if pep had the same understanding as we did, so that's why I'm clarifying :)
[09:49] <owh> So, here goes:
[09:50]  * pep is explaining what who things to a lot of people, and is dying for an IRC meeting xD
[09:51] <owh> The SU site that hubuntu is making, is really the DIY site that the UMT team discussed in the meeting, that is, a place for "stuff", like fliers, white papers, etc. So, while hubuntu is currently calling it SU, it really is something more like diy.su.com
[09:51] <owh> The SU site that is the one for the general public, newbies if you like can be rolled out on SU, so we run both up at the same time.
[09:51] <hubuntu> SU is a little more than the DIY site
[09:51] <pep> well, it will both imo...
[09:51] <owh> So we're in effect talking about the same thing.
[09:51] <hubuntu> but yes, It will include the main ideas of the DIY site
[09:51] <owh> Just a different way of looking at it.
[09:52] <hubuntu> and some other ideas aswell
[09:52] <owh> So, the DIY stuff that Flannel dug out (from the existing SU/DIY stuff can be merged with hubuntu's SU site and be launched as diy.su.
[09:52] <hubuntu> I think of it as a base for microsites for campaigns as well as a material repository
[09:52] <owh> Lemme show you some URLs.
[09:52] <owh> Gimmie a mo.
[09:53] <hubuntu> I hvae already added a link to the DIY stuff in the wiki page
[09:53] <owh> http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/spreadubuntu/SpreadUbuntu%20Structure%20Proposals/Spreadubuntu-060628-jenda.png
[09:53] <owh> That's the original design for SU.
[09:53] <hubuntu> I have a link to that too
[09:53] <owh> We're saying that the stuff above the dotted line is su.com, the stuff below the dotted line is the diy site.
[09:53] <owh> http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/spreadubuntu/SpreadUbuntu%20Design%20Mockups/JendaVancura/Mockup.png
[09:54] <owh> That's a proposed home page for SU
[09:54] <owh> That is, it was the existing design.
[09:54] <owh> Now the final bit.
[09:54] <pep> yes, we are thinking of SU being a bit more elaborate now... it will include all marketing material, the DIYWebsite, the DIYMarketing page, and be a rendez-vous point for new marketing ideas and projects... SU site being the frontend, we will be working on LP....
[09:54] <owh> https://omgwtfbbq.dnsdojo.net/spread/
[09:55] <pep> nice!
[09:55] <owh> That's Flannels personal site, running the code base that was the DIY/SU site from the "discontinued" project.
[09:55] <hubuntu> Seen it too ;) but not the last one
[09:55] <hubuntu> nice ;)
[09:55] <owh> Right, so, that's what already exists and I don't think we want to throw it away.
[09:55] <owh> So, we want to make sure that we're all pulling on the same rope.
[09:55] <pep> talking about the design button... we came up with the idea of an application, similar to 5-a-day, that enables designers to directly upload projects through a nice gui...
[09:56] <hubuntu> is it WP or drupal?
[09:56] <owh> Sure, that's implementation pep, but not just yet.
[09:56] <pep> yeah, sure, just adding ;)
[09:56] <hubuntu> I believe the template can be "ported" to any CMS
[09:56] <owh> hubuntu: Dunno and Flannel and I both didn't care at this point because we're both developers and we think that there are other issues.
[09:56] <owh> hubuntu: Specifically this:
[09:56] <hubuntu> but the backend has to be Drupal IMO
[09:57] <owh> We think that the SU site will be mostly static, that is, it contains mostly static HTML (or similar) and will be managed by UMT.
[09:57] <owh> We think that the DIY.SU site will be mostly a database that links back to bzr/LP.
[09:57] <hubuntu> it will be managed by the SU team, in collaboration with UMT, yes
[09:57] <owh> And the actual stuff, fliers etc, lives in bzr, so we can harness that and rosetta for translations.
[09:57] <hubuntu> indeed owh, the database is what we were talking about yesterday
[09:58] <pep> we are heading to the same thing, we have the same ideas....
[09:58] <owh> We're both extremely reluctant to go down any particular CMS route at this point as we both think that this will be overkill and painful.
[09:58] <hubuntu> the database lives @ Canonical and bzr will be our revisioning system
[09:58] <pep> just a detail... are you still thinking of a su and a diy.su site?
[09:58] <owh> Well, the database living at Canonical is a whole separate discussion.
[09:59] <owh> Flannel is going to have a chat with some self-hosted locos and see what gives.
[09:59] <hubuntu> I have written down every single thing you just metioned in the wiki.. we discussed it yesterday and it seems to me we see the site with the same perspective
[09:59] <owh> So, does what I outline gel with your understandings or are there some things that don't match up?
[09:59] <hubuntu> I believe this is a global ubuntu project that has to be hosted within Canonical
[10:00] <pep> well I'm just wondering about the diy.su ... it is a subpart of the su site right? jsut so that we are thinking the same...
[10:00] <hubuntu> I agree that defining the CMs or whatever we use is irrelevant at this point
[10:00] <owh> hubuntu: Well, that is a separate discussion because it may mean many deployment delays.
[10:00] <owh> pep: Well, it is expected that content that is showing on SU, comes from DIY.SU, but essentially they will be seperate things, managed differently.
[10:01] <hubuntu> I agree that we have to summarize the way we plan this to work, how the interaction framework within  stakeholders will be and how we plan to include the input and manage it
[10:01] <owh> One moment, door.
[10:01] <hubuntu> SU is an umbrella proyect, diy.su.com is a part of it, and at this stage the most important and relevant one
[10:02] <owh> Yes.
[10:02] <hubuntu> but SU will be more than that
[10:02] <owh> And the one that the UMT agreed was the primary focus.
[10:02] <hubuntu> so our energy will concentrate on diy.du.com
[10:02] <owh> DIY that is, not SU.
[10:02] <owh> Yes
[10:02] <pep> ..
[10:02] <hubuntu> diy.su.com
[10:02] <pep> ok..
[10:02] <owh> Ya
[10:03] <hubuntu> and work from there I hope by mid august
[10:03] <hubuntu> what you think pep?
[10:03] <owh> Really, we're just trying to make sure we're all saying the same thing and that we are understanding it in the same way so we don't confuse everyone with a "slightly" different story.
[10:04] <pep> I'm having some problems seizing the difference there... so basically hubuntu, diy.su is the one we were talking baout, with LP sync, etc... right? it just excludes the map, the contact place, the Q&A, etc... ?
[10:04] <pep> so, the core of SU ..
[10:04] <owh> Well, Q&A already exists in LP.
[10:04] <owh> I saw the belgian map, nice. But that's not on diy.
[10:04] <meisok> hi
[10:05] <pep> no, owh
[10:05] <owh> meisok: Hiya.
[10:05] <pep> hubuntu knows what I'm talking about... he had some other map in mind...
[10:05] <hubuntu> nhi owh,meisok is art of the team too
[10:05] <owh> hubuntu: Yup, I know :)
[10:05] <hubuntu> I'm thinking of a map to locate other marketeers in your area with whom you can collaborate
[10:05] <hubuntu> beyond the fact of being actively part of a LoCo or not'
[10:06] <pep> personally, I think it is not a priority and can always be implmented later...
[10:06] <hubuntu> but that's secondary now
[10:06] <pep> yeah
[10:06] <owh> Right, so the contact type is different, but it's really an extension of pep's Belgian map.
[10:06] <hubuntu> we need the diy site first
[10:06] <pep> owh: we're still actively working on that map btw ....
[10:06]  * owh has *lots* of map experience, running satellite trackers, World Solar Challenge, mapping, overlays :)
[10:06] <hubuntu> I'm not sure owh, we will have to elaborate on that
[10:06] <hubuntu> good :)
[10:06] <owh> hubuntu: Well the way to do that is to write a spec, but we're no where near that at this time.
[10:07] <hubuntu> but I think is a great idea
[10:07] <hubuntu> exactlt, we need to spec downthe SU site first
[10:07] <pep> I had an idea I was fond of for the sorting and classification system, that would permit us to archive and find/sort a big archive of ressoruces... just wait a second, I'll draft this down...
[10:07] <owh> So, the first step is to discuss the LP project 'spreadubuntu' with jenda, who owns it and go from there. We'll need to explain what we want to do and how we want to structure it so we don't waste his time.
[10:07] <pep> yeah owh!
[10:08] <owh> But there is no point in doing that until we have a good understanding of what is required and what we need.
[10:08] <pep> yes, we must merge the old diy team with ours, and pull all related projects, like diywebsite and former spreadubuntu to us, and assign it to our team.
[10:08] <owh> So, step 0, is to write down how we plan to re-use the existing stuff and how it fits into the current plan.
[10:09] <hubuntu> indeed.. I am trying to make the project page understandable with a menu header and subpages categorized in there for easy access
[10:09] <owh> I've not yet had time to go through the mailing list archive to get a sense of the things that were decided and I think we need to write up a proposal and send it to the list to get some discussion about it, but Flannel will need to agree with that.
[10:10] <owh> Now, I've just been tapped on the shoulder to run away. If anything of what we discussed doesn't make sense, drop me an email or figure out what went down. I'm about to paste Flannel and my discussion.
[10:10] <hubuntu> owh we will have our own list for the technical stuff and users feedback/material submition
[10:11] <hubuntu> no worries.. It al makes sens.. we just have to add it wikiwise
[10:11] <owh> hubuntu: Before that we need to talk to UMT though, as this is part of the stuff we agreed in the meeting.
[10:11] <owh> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/20565/
[10:11] <owh> That's the discussion Flannel and I had this morning.
[10:11]  * owh has to run. Drop me email if you need to.
[10:12] <owh> Later
[10:14] <pep`> back
[10:14] <pep`> sorry, got kicked out of my wireless
[10:14] <pep`> last message was " I've not yet had time to go through the mailing list archive to get a sense of the things that were decided and I think we need to write up a proposal and send it to the list to get some discussion about it, but Flannel will need to agree with that." ...
[10:25] <pep> So material on LP is periodically synchronised with the site right?...
[10:27] <pep`> ah damn... just got kicked out again!
[10:27] <pep`> ah, I'll paste bin this...
[10:28] <pep> right, hubuntu, owh: http://pastebin.com/m73367847
[10:28] <pep> meisok tambien ;)
[10:28] <pep> oh, owh seems out^^
[10:29] <hubuntu> pep, just add it to the wiki as you see fit and we will eventually change it if it is needed
[10:29] <hubuntu> ;)(
[10:29] <pep> yes, I will
[10:29] <hubuntu> put as an idea or step by step your own way
[10:31] <pep> I will add it under Ideas - classifying system
[10:45] <hubuntu> Flannel, are you there?
[10:55] <pep> hubuntu: here goes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu#head-b004109f14fc47cfb7ffe8956e404ea9d303ce24
[11:00] <hubuntu> I believe the Su site should ONLY be for marketeers
[11:00] <hubuntu> new comers that want to market ubuntu locally can use it, but we should not aim to become ubuntu.com
[11:01] <hubuntu> this realted to the Flannel and owh conversation here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/20565/
[11:01] <pep> well it is for marketeers and for marketing material submitters right?
[11:01] <pep> I'll check out the conversation..
[11:05] <hubuntu> of course, but not for new comers as in:I want to know what Ubuntu is
[11:06] <hubuntu> you use getfirefoxfor downloaders as you use http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu
[11:06] <hubuntu> and the same is true for spreadubuntu
[11:06] <hubuntu> related to spreadfirefox
[11:06] <pep> ah yes, you weren't talking about my classyfing system, I see..
[11:07] <hubuntu> a base for marketing activities with microsites, material and oter related stuff
[11:07] <pep> (12:22:58) Flannel: DIY requires a DB, to search, catalog, etc <= this is only what my point was about..
[11:12] <hubuntu> pep do you have the log from yesterday?
[11:12] <pep> from yesterday in ubuntu-es?
[11:12] <pep> or here?
[11:12] <hubuntu> both
[11:12] <pep> yes, I think... hang on..
[11:12] <hubuntu> put therm in: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/
[11:12] <hubuntu> and give me the links
[11:12] <pep> jupp
[11:12] <pep> already up
[11:13] <hubuntu> I am setting up a chat log overview so people don'æt repeat the same conversation all over again
[11:13] <hubuntu> but try to hunt the main ideas and wiki them
[11:13] <pep> ok
[11:13] <pep> you want everything?
[11:14] <pep> even from when you were there?
[11:14] <pep> ah yes, obviously... -_-
[11:17] <hubuntu> try to cut off the irrelevant points and justy give me raw material for the project
[11:17] <hubuntu> please
[11:17] <pep> yes
[11:17] <pep> I'm busy at it, it's quite a lot..
[11:18] <hubuntu> I know
[11:18] <pep> all the join/quit take a lot of space
[11:19] <hubuntu> I got the logs in another computer and I'm not sure if I will have access to it the next days
[11:25] <pep> do you know how I can "find and replace" expressions in a text file with variable content, like find: "[dim jun 15 2008] [*] Quitter *" ? I didn't find it in gedit or openoffice... and I am to lazy to try and find/write a script doing this^^ 
[11:25] <pep> ah nvm
[11:30] <pep> hubuntu: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/20586/ for this channel, I'll quickly do the one for ubuntu-es
[11:34] <hubuntu> thanx
[11:38] <pep> hubuntu: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/20590/ the ubuntu-es-locos log
[11:40] <hubuntu> I added the chats link to our header menu
[11:40] <pep> Ok.
[11:41] <hubuntu> check this out pep:https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+spec/ssov2-drupal-plugin
[11:42] <pep> perfect :D
[11:42] <hubuntu> it is implemented already ;)
[11:43] <hubuntu> I'm going to contact him to check the status of it
[11:43] <pep> yes, this is good.
[11:44] <hubuntu> I'm going to #launchpad to talk to him
[11:45] <pep> I'll follow that...
[11:45] <pep> hubuntu: where have you put the chatlgos?
[11:45] <pep> on the wiki header menu?
[11:48] <hubuntu> now you cans ee the changes
[11:48] <hubuntu> yes
[11:50] <hubuntu> we should move eevrything to the respective subpages
[11:52] <pep> "everything" ? all ideas?
[11:52] <pep> yes.
[11:53] <pep> but I do not have the time now. I have an exam tomorrow, I'll be half-there this afternoon, you can ping/query me though, not a problem, my IRC client will shout ;)
[11:54] <hubuntu> I will.. good luck tomorrow
[12:03] <pep> just something I thought of yesterday, when talking about contacting jenda and the DIYWebsite team, after we have cleared this with the former involved, and that they willingly hand us voer the project in LP, etc... we'll have to think about modifying details about SU here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Projects
[12:04] <pep> I was going to change it but prefer waiting for them to have handed it to us completely..
[12:06] <hubuntu> indeed
[12:06] <hubuntu> I hvae let alone the previous SU project pages in order to find a common understanding of what's to come
[12:07] <hubuntu> and pick up what we see fits in our project
[12:08] <hubuntu> build on their ideas where we can
[12:08] <pep> yes, I changed the status to a transitional one, until we have contacted former members.
[12:10] <hubuntu> good
[12:11] <hubuntu> the OpenID stuff @ launchpad seems to be in good shape but I am waiting for feedback
[12:11] <pep> I am on the channel, reading....
[12:12] <pep> btw, I subscribed and applied to be a beta tester yesterday, which is of course of interest for implementing opneID, I hope my membership will be activated by the time we start working on ti..
[12:12] <pep> I already use edge a lot
[12:14] <hubuntu> good ;)
[12:14] <hubuntu> becoming beta tester happens fast
[12:14] <hubuntu> edge is a wondeful place
[12:14] <hubuntu> I just found out about staging too
[12:15] <hubuntu> is where the code resides before edge
[12:15] <pep> yeah, I simply *love* launchpad
[12:15] <pep> got very fond of it when I discovered this
[12:15] <pep> being "used" to classic only mailing list and IRC projects
[12:16] <pep> but as I got really involved into ubuntu, I spent almost no time on it, working for my loco IRL and doing a lot of support on IRC in #ubuntu-fr
[12:20] <hubuntu> LP is the rock.. I understood about one year ago
[12:20] <hubuntu> It takes time to understand the whole thing, but once you do.. You'll never be back (tm)
[12:20] <pep> :)
[12:20] <hubuntu> is just a better way of doing things, period!
[12:21] <hubuntu> but I think we will have a lot of issues arising with the BZR side of things
[12:22] <pep> for SU?
[12:22] <hubuntu> we need some serious bzr people with us to materialize the revisioning system for the SU site
[12:22] <pep> yeah, we've got to think this out deeply with ppl that now about it...
[12:22] <pep> ah, exactly what I think :)
[12:23] <hubuntu> meisok and I know a little, I do not know about you, but I'm a novice really, just a basic, very basic user
[12:23] <pep> jsut stumbled upon http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/ it would be good if it was available in several languages...
[12:23] <hubuntu> yes, marketing resources have to become painless and our platform has to make this a reality
[12:24] <pep> jupp
[12:24] <hubuntu> is a extremely complex thing to achieve and it will take time
[12:24] <pep> well, first step will be the marketing resources, in a loco sense...
[12:24] <pep> then we can see further...
[12:25] <hubuntu> but I'm confident that by "releasing little and often" we will suceed
[12:25] <hubuntu> yes... LoCos in focus
[12:25] <pep> yes, remember what beuno said ;)
[12:25] <hubuntu> it's because of that need I want this to work...
[12:27] <hubuntu> and this will benefit many LoCos worlwide... I would just love to have a cooperation framework where a Chinese flyer gets translated into French on-the-fly 
[12:27] <hubuntu> making campaigns totally painless and the resources just amazingly vast and of good quality
[12:29] <pep> yeah :) the "launchpad-marketing-addon" as we more or less described it in the first meetings seizes the idea pretty wellI think =)
[12:30] <hubuntu> was it described in those words?
[12:30] <hubuntu> or with meisok?
[12:30] <hubuntu> you think drupal 5.xor 6.x ?
[12:31] <pep> we actually described it more as a "marketing launchpad"
[12:31] <pep> but now it is more a "launchpad-marketing-addon" ..
[12:31] <pep> I don't know about drupal, I use wordpress and cmsmadesimple for my work....
[12:32] <hubuntu> I think drupal since even ubuntu.com uses it
[12:32] <hubuntu> It wouldn't make sense to implement the same work in othe place
[12:32] <hubuntu> s
[12:32] <pep> yeah sure, I'm planning on learning how to use it, as we are developing a new site for ubuntu-be as well..
[12:32] <pep> that is currently on CMSMS
[12:32] <hubuntu> just ask if you have questions
[12:33] <hubuntu> I admin ubuntu.ec
[12:33] <hubuntu> based in drupal
[12:33] <pep> very similar to ubuntu.com
[12:34] <hubuntu> ;)
[12:34] <pep> :)
[12:34] <hubuntu> ubuntu.no uses pretty much the same
[12:35] <pep> ah yeah, I see, like spreadubuntu.co.uk
[12:36] <hubuntu> locos around use that... I think I have seen one mediawiki (SOuthAfrica) and a Us Loco using wordpress
[12:36] <hubuntu> the rest just go with the flow (yo!)
[12:36] <pep> ok...
[14:35] <jpds> hubuntu: hmm, what was the global ping for? 
[19:49] <jbotscharow> Flannel: you here?
[19:58] <jbotscharow> pep: are you woking on organzing the marketing materials?
[20:28] <pep> jbotscharow: hi!
[20:28] <pep> sorry I was discussing an important project IRL...
[20:28] <pep> IRL=In Real Life, before you ask ;)
[20:28] <pep> and no, I'm not working on organizing the marketing material...
[20:41] <jbotscharow> pep: figured something like that/ thanks. i emded up posting my question on the ml
[20:41] <pep> ah yes I see it!
[20:43] <jbotscharow> IRL I have back probs and had to go stretch my back out which is why I was not here when you replied :-(
[20:44] <pep> Oh, not a problem :)
[20:44] <jbotscharow> ok. ty
[20:44] <jbotscharow> gonna go stretch out some more  ttyl
[22:25] <hubuntu> jbotscharow, are you tehre?
[22:26] <jbotscharow> yes, writing a reply to your SU email
[22:27] <jbotscharow> hubuntu: yes, here noq
[22:28] <hubuntu> ok
[22:28] <hubuntu> just drop the reply
[22:28] <hubuntu> lets talk here :)
[22:28]  * pep reports present
[22:29] <hubuntu> and yes you are right.. I overreact sometimes.. But it's just that i'm passionate aboiut this too
[22:29] <hubuntu> so let's get to the ground
[22:29] <hubuntu> the project we are engaging is the one discussed under the meeting
[22:30] <hubuntu> but we seem to have a team that is willing to work and is up to the task, right pep?
[22:30] <pep> sure is
[22:30] <pep> the project is heading exactly the way we agreed
[22:32] <pep> still waiting for former ones to get under our assignement on LP and all...
[22:32] <pep> we should try and use LP to its fullest extent of possibilities it offers us
[22:33] <pep> I will be doing a lot of catching up on it's features
[22:33] <hubuntu> so will I
[22:33] <hubuntu> LP seems to be the right platform.. but what we want will push it to its limits AFAIK
[22:34] <hubuntu> and well it will push us too ;)
[22:36] <pep> yes
[22:37] <pep> as I said, I left LP very aside
[22:37] <pep> my karma shrunk to its minimum I think
[22:38] <hubuntu> jbotscharow, I learned to use the wiki myself... I learned to use GNU/Linux by being told to RTFM for years
[22:39] <hubuntu> and as much as I do not like that approach for newcomers I believe that to learn the dynamics of the FLOSS world one has to read on the manual and do a lot of work alone
[22:39] <hubuntu> and eventually the landscape will open in front of your eyes...
[22:39] <jbotscharow> well that is a harsh world then that you live in. :=)
[22:39] <pep> same for everyone I believe...
[22:39] <hubuntu> it's hard to explain...
[22:40] <pep> it is very complex so learning empirically (sounds weird..) is the normal way...
[22:40] <hubuntu> but of course I wouldn't be in this community if I didn't believe we could ease that process for everyone
[22:40] <jbotscharow> b4 we get into this too deep, i wud like to ask you ome, maybe two personal questions that will assist me in trying to communicate with you
[22:41] <hubuntu> please do
[22:41] <jbotscharow> I know you are not a native speaker of English, so I will keep my language as plain as possible and free of American idions
[22:41] <jbotscharow> we've had enough misunderstandsing. I don't think we need any more
[22:42] <jbotscharow> First, and how you answer this, will determine the second question
[22:42] <jbotscharow> how old are you
[22:42] <jbotscharow> ?
[22:42] <hubuntu> 27
[22:42] <jbotscharow> U guessed correctly:-)
[22:42] <jbotscharow> Are you a father?
[22:42] <hubuntu> yes
[22:43] <jbotscharow> I assume your kids are very young
[22:43] <hubuntu> it would be strange if they were not, wouldn't it?
[22:43] <hubuntu> ;)
[22:44] <jbotscharow> true LOL
[22:44] <hubuntu> is this kind some kind of interview?
[22:44] <hubuntu> I know where you are heading...
[22:44] <jbotscharow> although where I live there are women with chihldren as old as my two boys = 11 and 12 as we count birthdats - who are your age
[22:45] <jbotscharow> I may surprise you
[22:45] <hubuntu> true
[22:45] <hubuntu> I count on you doing it too ;)
[22:45] <jbotscharow> Actualky, I was not going to lecture you, but to ask a favor
[22:45] <jbotscharow> because when it comes to some things
[22:45] <jbotscharow> a newbie is like a small child
[22:46] <jbotscharow> lacks education, that is, lacks information
[22:46] <jbotscharow> feek free to treat me, in thinks like the wiki, as if you were trying to explain it to your children
[22:47] <hubuntu> yes, what is obvious for some is totally unknown for others
[22:47] <jbotscharow> assume I know as little about it as they do. becuase that's probably close to the truth
[22:47] <hubuntu> ok...
[22:47] <jbotscharow> I will not be offended
[22:47] <hubuntu> First... A wiki is a resource where we try to have a common conscience, a common knowledge place
[22:47] <jbotscharow> the only thing that offends me is people hurting other people out of ignorace and lack of courtesy
[22:48] <hubuntu> yes, I know better than being rude... I know
[22:48] <jbotscharow> COMMON courtesy not FLOSS courtesty :-)
[22:48] <pep> hehe, that is often a problem ;)
[22:49] <jbotscharow> as I have learned
[22:49] <pep> but believe it or not, you can be happy to enter the community now regarding this... and even more the ubuntu community...
[22:49] <hubuntu> so as I said, a wiki is a place where we work our ideas, thoughts, specifications, blueprints, scenarios in a common way
[22:49] <pep> jbotscharow: used to be far worse
[22:49] <hubuntu> nobody owns it, it is everyones place
[22:49] <jbotscharow> anyway, would you prefer to do this on pm or stay here?
[22:49] <pep> I'll shut up, so feel free to do this here
[22:49] <jbotscharow> I do know how to do pn now :-)
[22:49] <hubuntu> pep you are right
[22:50] <hubuntu> When I arrived.. well you would not believe the logs
[22:50] <pep> hehe
[22:50] <jbotscharow> pep: hi pierre, you are welcome to sray, just slow down a little so I can keep up
[22:51] <pep> hehe, I'm staying ;)
[22:51] <pep> and I'll let you finish one subject before starting another.
[22:51] <jbotscharow> I have no intentions of leaving ubuntu. marketing is still open for discussion:-)
[22:51] <pep> because that's the problem with IRC when you start.. wollowing numerous conversation sin the same channel
[22:51] <pep> following*
[22:52] <jbotscharow> logs are good, if you know where to find them and how to read them
[22:52] <jbotscharow> you guys use acronyms i have no idea what they mean
[22:53] <pep> yeah, a lot is heritage from hacker culture...
[22:53] <jbotscharow> exactly
[22:54] <jbotscharow> BTW, and this is something I had wanted to bring up on this list
[22:54] <jbotscharow> but became afraid of the reaction
[22:55] <jbotscharow> most windows users see linux users as "hackers" in the negative sense of the word
[22:55] <jbotscharow> it was only after I joined the FSF a few years ago that I learned the true meaning of the word
[22:55] <pep> 'crackers' as some prefer to call it ;)
[22:56] <jbotscharow> most Windows users assume hackers are responsible for viruses and trojans and don't trust them
[22:56] <jbotscharow> and for them FOSS = hackers
[22:56] <jbotscharow> an image issue that will need to be ealt with
[22:57] <pep> yes, I was thinking about a marketing campain aiming that image... children using ubuntu, grandparents using it, corporations... something like an add or a small series of strong images...
[22:57] <jbotscharow> crackers is the word I took up using to explain he difference
[22:58] <jbotscharow> andm believe it or not, Ruben, a blog wud be a very good way to do that
[22:58] <jbotscharow> first because blogs get good google ratings
[22:59] <jbotscharow> second because good artivles get picked up by other blogs
[22:59] <jbotscharow> I actually had one of my articles on my blog picked up by a CNN blog last year
[23:00] <jbotscharow> did wonders for the traffic to my site
[23:01] <jbotscharow> soon, and imho, the sooner the better, we are really going to have to target Windows users
[23:01] <pep> there are a lot of blogs
[23:01] <pep> you know planet ubuntu?
[23:02] <jbotscharow> all this stuff I see on some lists about advocacy at LUGs seems incestuous to me LOL
[23:02] <jbotscharow> millimos, most of them crap
[23:02] <jbotscharow> LOL
[23:02] <jbotscharow> but the goods ones are VERY good
[23:03] <jbotscharow> and if we use drupal on SU site, we can do RSS feeds for the site
[23:03] <jbotscharow> a lot of Windows userrs prefer RSS to email
[23:03] <jbotscharow> they have had it with the virus crap
[23:04] <pep> yeah, we will use rss too
[23:04] <jbotscharow> yes
[23:05] <jbotscharow> on planet ubuntu
[23:05] <pep> it won't be a big deal implementing that
[23:05] <pep> I like the sensitive tone to these ads: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngAkxHrl_uM + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJe2Hxgw7Wg + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcxMWDpRCmU ... that is the tone I thought about making the linux-is-for-everyone-and-surely-not-only-hackers campain...
[23:05] <jbotscharow> have it in my RSS feed reader
[23:05] <jbotscharow> not at all
[23:05] <pep> but prioirity is SU for me, I will concentrate on this campain after that, or once we're further...
[23:06] <pep> but that is also hat makes the strength of a team such as ours
[23:06] <jbotscharow> we can even get a google adwords and.or adsense account for SU = make a little money LOL
[23:06] <pep> Su workgroup will focus on... SU, and the others still focus on the real marketing if they feel it the prioirity
[23:07] <jbotscharow> I can't remember who all I was talking to - maybe you, pep and Flannel, but I said that SU has to be tghe heart and soul of our marketing efforts
[23:08] <pep> well, not exactly of our "marketing" efforts for the moment :)
[23:08] <jbotscharow> and that was before I saw you guys talking about the SU team :0)
[23:08] <pep> but yes, it has to be done
[23:09] <jbotscharow> I disagree. it has to be the heart and soul of marketing team
[23:09] <pep> imo, this does not at al interfere with carrying on real marketing work beside though
[23:09] <hubuntu> jbotscharow, no blog on SU
[23:09] <jbotscharow> we need to fovus everything on the LoCo advocacy efforts
[23:09] <hubuntu> have your own bvlog if you want
[23:09] <jbotscharow> and getting them to branck out to reach more Windows users
[23:09] <hubuntu> a planet we have (planet.ubuntu.com)
[23:10] <pep> ah of the team yeah... well yes, possibly, but I was talking more about the type of effort, as setting this up is not real marketing work I think... even if, once it is set up, there will be some internal marketing for SU itself to be done...
[23:10] <hubuntu> one thing at a time
[23:10] <hubuntu> SU is more a technical project
[23:10] <hubuntu> a tech project in order to form the base for the marketing work
[23:11] <jbotscharow> I already do :=) http://jbotscharow.com but I know what you meant and TYVM I acceot yiur offer
[23:11] <pep> yeah, it's more a technical project..
[23:11] <jbotscharow> this is the point I have tried to make on the list
[23:11] <hubuntu> keeping that in mind we have plenty of work to do
[23:11] <jbotscharow> in marketing there is no such thing as a purely technical project
[23:12] <jbotscharow> it is all one piece
[23:12] <pep> ah jbotscharow, you know http://ubuntuweblogs.org/ ?
[23:12] <hubuntu> I am trying to make a mockup for ideas trying to locate actors, work flow and other factors that are relevant for marketing
[23:12] <pep> you can participate if you have a blog with ubuntu articles
[23:12] <jbotscharow> the technical projects are the tools. yes
[23:12] <jbotscharow> but they need to be part of a marketing strategy
[23:13] <jbotscharow> otjerwose we are nothing more than blacksmiths
[23:13] <hubuntu> of course jbotscharow, but the marketing strategy gets implemented in top of the right tools
[23:13] <jbotscharow> that's backwards
[23:13] <jbotscharow> in ho
[23:13] <pep> mhh
[23:14] <jbotscharow> pep: please translate that
[23:14] <hubuntu> the strategy has to be made, we are just working on the tools that we see the community needs
[23:14] <hubuntu> the strategy for SU is to create a site that LoCos and other teams need
[23:14] <pep> mhh was just an expression, like saying "mhhhhh" in a conversation
[23:14] <pep> nothing g33kish
[23:14] <jbotscharow> because you are assuming, and imho the correct one, a strategu
[23:15] <jbotscharow> ok
[23:15] <hubuntu> the need is pushing us to create this... everyone is screaming for this to happen
[23:15] <jbotscharow> we need to make the strategy explicit rather than implicit
[23:16] <hubuntu> we just happen to take care of it and do something about it
[23:16] <jbotscharow> that is what I did for the firefox plugin
[23:16] <jbotscharow> I used SIU the strategy- as my starting point
[23:16] <hubuntu> I know, but the FF plugin is irrelevant to this
[23:16] <pep> that is my point, SU project is made by the marketing team because it servers a marketing purpose (obviously) but it is not a marketing action at all to make it imo... except internal marketing maybe...
[23:16] <hubuntu> but could of course be an idea just the way suGUI is
[23:16] <jbotscharow> and I am working on ideas for other tools all based on that strategy
[23:17] <pep> I think jbotscharow knows the real difference between strategy and tactic... we are getting each other confused...
[23:17] <jbotscharow> it is a tool to help LoCos SpreadUbintu more effectively and efficiently
[23:18] <jbotscharow> help them find the marketing materials they need to spread the word
[23:18] <hubuntu> yes, we have one for Spanish documentation
[23:18] <pep> yes
[23:18] <hubuntu> I use it very often
[23:18] <jbotscharow> I think its a translation of the italian one
[23:19] <jbotscharow> I talked to one of the admins, I think he is one, of the mozilla team
[23:19] <hubuntu> i just don't see having an extension for everything as a good idea
[23:19] <hubuntu> no, the spanish one has been around for a while, based oin the ubuntuforums one
[23:19] <jbotscharow> and he told me wgo designed the plugin and I have been lurking in their IRC channel but he has not shown up
[23:19] <jbotscharow> so I sent him an emal today
[23:19] <hubuntu> we are reimplementing the Italian effort for the Spanish community
[23:19] <jbotscharow> hope he replies
[23:19] <hubuntu> meisok is doing that.. he is here right now
[23:20] <hubuntu> but that is documentation
[23:20] <jbotscharow> and that is what ours will do - new links
[23:20] <hubuntu> anyway... the extension for FF is not central to SU
[23:20] <jbotscharow> marketing team resources links
[23:21] <hubuntu> SU will be the place were we add, manage and check marketing resources
[23:21] <jbotscharow> probably not, but it is something actionable for me :0) to do
[23:21] <hubuntu> using LP as our backend for revision control, answer and questions and translations
[23:22] <hubuntu> true
[23:22] <hubuntu> keep doing that jbotscharow 
[23:22] <hubuntu> ;)
[23:22] <hubuntu> it may as well get us a lot of links down the road
[23:22] <jbotscharow> hanf on one sec want to get you a link
[23:22] <pep> hubuntu: I just thought about something... it was talked about to have a list of sites that were useful for marketing ubuntu... if we made that a little broader, adding links that advocate ubuntu, or just positive reviews, we could implement some sort of user-driven system similar to digg, it would classify the links by pertinence (user rating) and assure a constant newcoming (if it pulls...)...... maybe this would even solve your concern of getting
[23:22] <pep> relevant sites together jbotscharow...
[23:23] <pep> maybe we could make a site like this, and put a link to it in SU, so you can access it easily from SU... ?
[23:23] <pep> would that be in the spirit of what you're thinking about jbotscharow
[23:23] <pep> ?
[23:23] <hubuntu> or maybe just part of SU ;)
[23:23] <pep> yeah
[23:24] <pep> part of Su
[23:24] <pep> SU
[23:24] <pep> but I'm talking technical here... as this would not have anything to do with the SU-LP-background machine... but for the end-user it is a part of SU, yes
[23:24] <hubuntu> you mean a slashdot for Ubuntu related links generally or Ubuntu marketing URL resources specifically
[23:24] <hubuntu> ?
[23:25] <pep> I'm not sure about that... I am afraid that marketing only will not pull enough...
[23:25] <jbotscharow> hubuntu: this is still very rough0 its on my wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow/Android
[23:25] <pep> I fear*
[23:25] <jbotscharow> when you get the time
[23:25] <hubuntu> jbotscharow, I will not prioritize any effoprt to push FLOSS generally
[23:26] <hubuntu> I want to keep it ubuntu-centric
[23:26] <jbotscharow> pep: to answer your spirit question, yes very much so
[23:26] <pep> +1 hubuntu
[23:26] <hubuntu> in that sense symbian is as relevant to WIndows, as Android is to Ubuntu
[23:26] <m-c> Hey, on another topic, I have another promotional mini-poster upon which I could use advice and criticism.  PM me your email or let me know I can DCC send it to you.
[23:26] <pep> sorry jbotscharow, but to me neither it does not apear as a priority... 
[23:26] <pep> hoi m-c!
[23:27] <pep> m-c: is it on LP?
[23:27] <m-c> \o/ pep!
[23:27] <hubuntu> hubuntu@gmail.com
[23:27] <m-c> no, just on my hard drive at the moment
[23:28] <pep> m-c: you've got my email, could you mail it to me too plz?
[23:28] <jbotscharow> well, how much of a priority it becomes, will depend on how successful the Androis phones become
[23:28] <jbotscharow> look at it this way
[23:28] <hubuntu> no, symbian to windows, android to ubuntu
[23:28] <pep> m-c: btw, our meeting went very well today! we set up a wiki for studentech devs and everything, looking good, I'll keep you on track ;)
[23:28] <hubuntu> no rlevenace at all
[23:28] <jbotscharow> if 200 milliom phones using FOSS get sold at Xmas, that's 200 Million prime prospects
[23:29] <jbotscharow> to spread ubuntu to
[23:29] <pep> they probably don't buy it for the FOSS imo
[23:29] <hubuntu> jbotscharow, most smartphones in the world today run FLOSS
[23:29] <pep> would be nice...
[23:29] <hubuntu> dod you think users care?
[23:29] <jbotscharow> that's right
[23:29] <jbotscharow> we have to TELL them they are FOSS phones
[23:29] <hubuntu> I use Ubuntu because it works for me
[23:30] <jbotscharow> and if you use FOSS phone and FOSS this and FPSS that. then you should have FPSS deskto
[23:30] <jbotscharow> and if you get FPSS desltop, get the best - Ubuntu
[23:30] <hubuntu> I believe you have something going on there,. but not for this team
[23:31] <jbotscharow> it's better than sex LOL
[23:31] <hubuntu> ;)
[23:31] <hubuntu> yes
[23:31] <hubuntu> software is like sex:
[23:31] <pep> well jbotscharow, you are really totally free to start this project! honestly, that's just fine if you can drum a small group of ppl around you and get working, I hope you have success!
[23:31] <hubuntu> it's better when it's free
[23:31] <pep> ahh
[23:31] <hubuntu> ;)
[23:31] <pep> you typed it faster than me
[23:31] <jbotscharow> wait a minute, need you to explaim something
[23:31] <jbotscharow> why NOT for this team
[23:32] <hubuntu> I have way to much to manage as it is... And I do not believe this team would have the resources or the change to drq
[23:32] <hubuntu> draw enough attention about the relevant issue
[23:32] <jbotscharow> you mean SU team?
[23:33] <hubuntu> which is actually android, and not ubuntu
[23:33] <pep> yeah I agree with jbotscharow, let's not kick it out... it can be under the marketing team, not under SU of course...
[23:33] <jbotscharow> I agree there. I was talking marketing team
[23:33] <pep> jbotscharow: you seem to be pretty far, make a concrete action draft and submit to the team, try and get people around you willing to work onthis, and get going! ;)
[23:33] <jbotscharow> and yes, I will build a small group to do this, or die trying LOL
[23:33] <hubuntu> jbotscharow, that's what is the beauty of FLOSS.. start your project and see it grow
[23:34] <hubuntu> or die trying ;)
[23:34] <pep> like a lot of projects, but that's normal
[23:34] <jbotscharow> that's the way any good marketing company works
[23:34] <pep> I already saw a lot of my projects die
[23:34] <hubuntu> so have I pep
[23:34] <hubuntu> now I do not use my time in little things
[23:35] <hubuntu> I go where I believe there's a great chance of success
[23:35] <pep> but after some time you get a feeling for what is viable (at least considering your ressources) and you are selective about what others bring up... probably why I won't join the effort ..
[23:35] <pep> which does not mean you will not succeed at least aprtially!
[23:35] <pep> right
[23:36] <jbotscharow> as you have seen on the list, re: die trying, I can be VERY persistent LOL
[23:36] <jbotscharow> I do not accept impossible as an option
[23:37] <jbotscharow> it just needs mre work LOL
[23:37] <pep> hubuntu: what do you think of this slashdot/digg idea for SU... ? alongside the main SU machine of course, and not draining the SU team energy for this! ...
[23:37] <hubuntu> well... I am going for a smoke... jbotscharow see the SU page and see if you can help us imagine/plan the work flow
[23:37] <hubuntu> is like the map, a good idea
[23:37] <hubuntu> ;)
[23:37] <hubuntu> let's keep focus
[23:38] <jbotscharow> ok
[23:38] <jbotscharow> on the workflow suggestion
[23:38] <pep> jupp, you know I'm ot making this a priority ;)
[23:38] <jbotscharow> iwhere are you going to host it?
[23:39] <pep> oh that's the least problem jbotscharow
[23:39] <pep> everyone has servers
[23:39] <pep> and actually, we will try to get this hosted @canonical
[23:39] <jbotscharow> cause I was going to offer mine LOL
[23:39] <jbotscharow> it already has dripal installed
[23:40] <jbotscharow> good, hope they do it
[23:40] <pep> yeah, but we're not there yet
[23:40] <hubuntu> they use it in ubuntu.com
[23:40] <jbotscharow> I need to take a break too. will be around for a few more hours before bed
[23:41] <jbotscharow> good luck with papa C
[23:42] <jbotscharow> ttyl
[23:44] <hubuntu> m-c, I liked your simple approach there
[23:54] <pep> hubuntu: any news from launchpad guys concerning openID?
[23:58] <hubuntu> no, you heard anything?
[23:58] <pep> nope
[23:58] <pep> I was out of #lp for one or 2 hours, but didn't hear nything
[23:59] <hubuntu> francis (flacoste or something)
[23:59] <hubuntu> was supposed to be the contact
[23:59] <pep> yeah
[23:59] <hubuntu> do a nickserv info
[23:59] <hubuntu> he may be busy