[00:00] I tend to think the more important thing would be who did the testing [00:01] it's easy for us to automatically check age and number of acks [00:01] it's not so easy to judge if those acks are trustworthy [00:01] Is it? Are they formatted consistently? [00:01] sbeattie: when we track via qa.u.c it will be ;-) [00:02] lol [00:02] right now it's not totally easy, but grepping for +1, "worked for me" would give you a lot [00:04] is it "works for me" a sufficient guarantee? [00:05] Anyway, more feedback on what would make the SRU pages more useful or help in streamlining the process would be great. [00:05] DktrKranz: well, for lack of better formalization, yes [00:05] LaserJock: my reports rarely say those things, I think. [00:05] well, you used to see a lot more of those [00:05] that's what our original terminology was [00:06] "we need 2 'works for me's" [00:06] so people would just put "works for me" [00:06] that was before test cases as well [00:06] which reminds me [00:06] DktrKranz: an item for consideration needs to be formalizing test case formatting [00:07] if the format for test cases is consistent then we can pull them out programmatically [00:07] and publish it in your tracker [00:07] LaserJock: heh, I noticed you haven't incorporated my changes to highlight bugs that don't have the standardized test cases. [00:08] (at least in the published pages) [00:08] DktrKranz: exactly. [00:08] sbeattie: yeah, my weekend didn't go as planned [00:08] sbeattie: hopefully this evening [00:08] given that someone forgets about test cases (and /me needs to figure out how to test them), it will be of sure help [00:09] the goal for me with the tracker scripts [00:09] is to make it easy to see when something isn't conforming to policy [00:09] so then it's trivial to fix it [00:09] LaserJock: well, I didn't get to writing the code to pull them out and display them this weekend, either. [00:10] sbeattie: slackers! [00:10] LaserJock, would it be too much complex to scan for "ACK" text posted by a member of motu-sru? [00:10] DktrKranz: I was thinking about that [00:10] I'm going to try to do it [00:11] hopefully it won't have to many bas results [00:11] *bad [00:11] generally I think we've been pretty consistent with using ACK [00:11] usually, "ack from motu-sru" is posted [00:11] that was going to go into my QA page [00:12] as well as bugs with SRU in the title but no MOTU SRU subscribed [00:12] and probably component mismatch (sub'ing MOTU SRU for Main package) [00:12] but those require quite a bit more Launchpad data [00:13] so I haven't done them yet [00:13] sbeattie: what do you think of ^^ [00:14] We could do something like that. [00:14] * LaserJock runs to the TODO file [00:15] main SRU doesn't do anything as formalized like that in our comments, we tend to describe what we did. [00:15] LaserJock, think about this case: https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/scons/+bug/226783 [00:15] Launchpad bug 226783 in scons "Merge scons 0.98.5-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [High,In progress] [00:15] user nominate for the release, but no task opened [00:16] I've seen some of them, they should be addressed too. [00:16] sbeattie: describe? [00:16] well, we can't get nominations [00:16] no? [00:16] but what we can do is flag SRU bugs that don't have any release tasks [00:17] no, I don't think there's a programmatic way to do that, other than maybe some screenscraping [00:17] and I'd really like to avoid doing that [00:17] I agree [00:17] LaserJock: here's an example https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/klibc/+bug/235282/comments/7 [00:17] Launchpad bug 235282 in klibc "Every second number disappears in (tiny) dmesg output (in initrd.img)" [Medium,Fix committed] [00:18] We do get works for me reports as well. [00:18] sbeattie: right, but we're talking about MOTU SRU acks [00:18] though that sort of comment is why we need to use an iso-tracker like interface [00:19] it's not always clear whether somebody is verifying or not [00:19] like "well, I think it works for me" [00:19] I usually do something like https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/rpy/+bug/128180/comments/35 [00:19] Launchpad bug 128180 in rpy "rpy import error at Gusty" [Medium,Fix committed] [00:20] DktrKranz: we already have data on tasks, so I think having a list of SRU bugs without any stable release tasks would catch a lot of your nominated-but-not-accepted bugs [00:20] LaserJock, this will catch almost everything [00:21] DktrKranz: I'll make that list tonight I think [00:21] good [00:25] alright, well I've got to run [00:25] DktrKranz: thanks for the input [00:25] well, I think I'm the only person in Europe still awake, so I'm moving to bed now :) [00:26] LaserJock, my pleasure [00:26] thanks guys for this meeting [00:27] keep up the good work and keep ROCKing === Zic_ is now known as Zic === persia_ is now known as persia [07:59] @schedule amsterdam [07:59] leoquant: Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | 17 Jun 17:00: Server Team | 18 Jun 19:00: QA Team | 18 Jun 22:00: Xubuntu Community | 19 Jun 00:00: Platform Team | 19 Jun 15:00: Desktop Team === freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying === asac_ is now known as asac === mc44_ is now known as mc44 [12:13] Is the community council meeting not happening this week? [12:14] !schedule [12:14] Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases [12:14] ubottu: die die die [12:14] Factoid die die die not found [12:14] ubottu: Factoid die die die not found [12:14] lifeless: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [12:16] persia: Guess not. :( [12:17] Strange. It is the third tuesday of the month. [12:22] persia: Yes. On the other hand the wiki says next meeting is 3 June (two weeks ago!). The CC meetings might not be recieving top priority? === OgMaciel is now known as isn === isn is now known as OgMaciel [14:46] hmm: The next meeting is scheduled for [WWW] June 17th 2008, 18:00 UTC and and will be held in #ubuntu-meeting [14:47] (ref. to the community council meeting) [14:47] jussi01: looks like ubottu hasn't reloaded since you restarted the bot. [14:47] leoquant: Which meeting? [14:47] (the topic) [14:48] @no [14:48] @now [14:48] Hobbsee: Current time in Etc/UTC: June 17 2008, 13:48:12 - Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day [14:48] unless we have 2 bugs for hugs meetings in a few days. === Pretto is now known as Pretto_busy_as_h === Pretto_busy_as_h is now known as Pretto_busy [14:54] Hobbsee: Bugs for Hugs days are often Tuesdays and Thursdays: all day events, but not here. [14:54] ahh [15:59] * kirkland o/ [15:59] hey all [16:00] o/ === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 18 Jun 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 18 Jun 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 19 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team [16:01] hello server folks ! [16:01] mathiaz: howdy [16:02] o/ [16:02] Let's start already .... [16:02] let's get started then [16:02] #startmeeting [16:02] Meeting started at 10:05. The chair is mathiaz. [16:02] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [16:03] Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting [16:03] Last week's meeting - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080610 [16:04] [TOPIC] openldap 2.4 SRU [16:04] New Topic: openldap 2.4 SRU [16:04] openldap 2.4.9 has been uploaded and accepted into -proposed [16:04] next step is to get 2.4.10 into hardy as well [16:04] but we'd have to wait for 2.4.10 to be uploaded in intrepid first [16:06] I don't know when this will be done - I haven't seen anything on the debian front [16:06] so we may wanna upload 2.4.10 directly [16:06] there is some work been done on the cn=config migration - it may land at the same time [16:07] that's all I have for the openldap sru [16:07] I'd suggest don't sweat 2.4.10 until 2.4.9 is in hardy-updates. [16:07] Maybe Debian gets it done in the mean time. [16:07] ScottK: for hardy - I aggree [16:07] * sommer_ can report that 2.4.9 works fine [16:07] For Intrepid there is no rush. [16:07] but we have some spec related to openldap for intrepid [16:07] mathiaz: I wouldnt rush with 2.4.10 since I think it has like 5 fixes [16:07] (for hardy) [16:08] zul: right - I don't think we should rush either [16:08] zul: any reported bug that would match thise 5 fixes in 2.4.10? [16:08] I don't think the spec stuff needs 2.4.10 [16:08] 3 of those fixes have been backported anways [16:08] nijaba: not yet :) [16:08] +1 on let's wait, then [16:09] nijaba: right - anyway we have to get 2.4.10 in intrepid first [16:09] the other interesting bit is that 2.4.11 will probably have the nss ldapd backend available [16:09] mathiaz: debian ok to the changes I have only seen one or two about it [16:10] it has been commited in upstream cvs - so it should be available in the contrib/ directory in 2.4.11 [16:10] mathiaz: yes, I think that is the one we should target for intrepid [16:10] dont forget to enable the test suite for intrepid as well :) [16:11] zul: right - :) [16:11] [TOPIC] Ebox and Ubuntu centralize server administrator spec [16:11] New Topic: Ebox and Ubuntu centralize server administrator spec [16:12] so I was supposed to invite a bunch of people to discuss this [16:12] and I haven't done so [16:12] from what little I know it seems that getting folks testing the cn=config migration early would help [16:12] nxvl sent me an email he wouldn't make it for the meeting [16:12] he's been looking into the different suggestions (augeas, etc...) [16:13] mathiaz: did you have a look at augeas? it looks likes it could be a great backend [16:13] * nijaba realizes the colision [16:13] still seems worthwhile getting the folks together to compare notes - next week? [16:13] nijaba: I just rapidly looked over the website - and indeed it looks promising [16:14] nealmcb: well - nxvl won't make it either [16:14] the backend is indeed pretty important - and getting a common backend with both rpm and apt- centric systems would be great [16:14] nealmcb: I think the big question we'd ask to the ebox developer is whether they consider switching to ageas [16:14] * nealmcb nods [16:14] * nijaba too [16:14] nealmcb: that could probably be done on their mailing lists [16:14] nxvl won't be here next week? [16:15] mathiaz: and/or on #ebox [16:15] nealmcb: IFAIU he won't - he doesn't have access to IRC at this time of the day [16:15] Could we have a link for augeas? [16:15] nealmcb: so I'll send an email to the ebox developer [16:16] ScottK: http://augeas.net/ [16:16] augeas.net [16:16] ScottK: see nxvl's spec.... [16:16] mathiaz: could we call another exceptional meeting a a time that works for nxvl on this subject? [16:16] and report back their answer [16:16] nijaba: +1 [16:16] nijaba: that would be another option - but what would we discuss [16:16] nijaba: we can use his spec for more discussion [16:16] mathiaz: ok [16:17] nijaba: we may not need a formal meeting [16:17] nijaba: I think we should ask him first [16:17] I'd suggest getting something like that into Ubuntu for a release cycle on it's own before we try to integrate it. [16:17] I see this as the broader discussion of really making u-server easy to use, which I think implies a gui, and I'd like more than just a few folks there [16:17] [ACTION] mathiaz to send an email to the ebox devs about augeas [16:17] ACTION received: mathiaz to send an email to the ebox devs about augeas [16:18] ..easy to use for folks new to linux... [16:18] seems more geared to a home server, than an smb server, though [16:18] and I think having more people behind fewer projects would be better.... [16:19] nealmcb: right - that's a broad topic that could be discussed for hours, if not days [16:19] let's move on [16:19] Yes, but with volunteers, one doesn't always get the fewer projects choice. [16:19] easier to use at multiple levels - both home and enterprise [16:19] [TOPIC] Spec status/review [16:19] New Topic: Spec status/review [16:19] ScottK: sure - I'm just hoping that more cross-fertilization will help [16:20] ScottK is around to ask what is targeted for intrepid [16:20] Yes. [16:20] dendrobates: any news on this front ? [16:20] mathiaz: not yet. [16:21] So far I've not gotten significant feedback on what I wrote up. I don't know if anyone else is in a different position. [16:21] ScottK: what's the link to your spec ? [16:22] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-flavors [16:22] I'm planning to write another post about intrepid spec [16:22] ScottK: I could include some of your specs there [16:22] ScottK: it may get a wider coverage [16:22] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/clamav-spamassassin-in-main and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/amavisd-dkim are trivial to implement. I just need approval. [16:23] I'm more interested in dendrobates approval at this point. For the first one manpower will be an issue, but without official backing, I'm not going to invest time in it. [16:23] ScottK: if they're trivial, why not just do it ? [16:24] ScottK: clamav-spamassin-in-main makes sense and was discussed at UDS [16:25] Because if Canonical is going to move these packages into a supported catagory, I think I need a Canonical approval. [16:25] ScottK: could there be a useful connection between augeas or other gui config backends and the config part of your flavors stuff? [16:25] For the MIR, I want to be able to say the rationale is approved spec. [16:25] nealmcb: I can see where it would be potentially useful. [16:26] ScottK: hm - right - having a rationale that says the ubuntu server team thinks that spamassin is usefull for our mail server and thus should be included into main makes sense [16:26] I think we all agree. I just need dendrobates to flip the bit in Launchpad. [16:28] Ok - so is there any other specs that are worth mentioning ? [16:28] I've already got a list of kirkland's spec and some of them are alreay coming along [16:28] not me [16:28] mathiaz: yeah, i just started working on them, got something started [16:28] I'll also mention the ldap related spec [16:28] mathiaz: I intend to hold off on work on those specs until they are approved. [16:28] mathiaz: if they don't get approved, i'll stop working on them for intrepid [16:28] Im still stuck on hardy ;) [16:29] mathiaz: and the framework will be there for someone else to do in spare time for Intrepid + N [16:29] kirkland: great - at the least the spec are written [16:30] let's move on [16:30] [TOPIC] Proposed ubuntu server team PPA [16:30] New Topic: Proposed ubuntu server team PPA [16:30] zul: is your PPA getting too small ? [16:30] Is there a written proposal on this? [16:31] ScottK: this = ? [16:31] mathiaz: well, its more of an offical/unoffical testing ppa that I can point users to rather than my ppa because mine is in a constant state of flux [16:31] The proposed server team PPA. [16:31] ScottK: no there isnt [16:31] zul: Why not just make a new one called zul-stable. [16:32] zul: what would be the difference between yours and ubuntu-server ppa ? [16:32] is it possible? [16:32] Make a new Launchpad account. [16:32] ScottK: because my ppa would not be a good place to ask users to try out bug fixes [16:32] i think you can only use a ppa with your account name/team [16:32] nxvl: you can have a ppa for a team in LP [16:32] So make a new one. [16:32] Koon: that's what i said [16:33] zul: what would you put in ubuntu-server ppa and not in zul ppa ? [16:33] Before proceeding, please make sure you aren't going to flood the rest of us with mail from LP as a result. [16:33] mathiaz: widely tested bug fixes for samba for example [16:33] nxvl: welcome! We were talking before about when to schedule an irc meeting about you and ebox and server gui stuff, but thought this was a bad time for you. [16:33] zul: isn't that what -proposed is for ? [16:34] mathiaz: true but that can take a couple of days to get in [16:34] nealmcb: it is [16:34] nealmcb: but, i'm breaking some rules in here [16:34] :D [16:34] :) [16:34] zul: I feel pretty strongly that PPA shouldn't be used for anything other than transitional testing of packages sign the releases files aren't signed. [16:34] nealmcb: there is no proxy or security system that can control a geek [16:35] zul: but in zul ppa there is broken stuff ? [16:36] mathiaz: its not fine polished before it gets uploaded to -proposed, its more of a staging area [16:36] zul: currently I see one package in zul ppa [16:36] zul: I don't see what we would gain by adding a ubuntu-server ppa [16:36] mathiaz: thats because I deleted alot the other day [16:37] mathiaz: fine with me, just an idea to throw it out there [16:37] zul: well - I'm not convinced of having yet another place to publish packages [16:37] zul: I'd suggest just make a new LP account and call it zul-working or some such and then point users at your current PPA once stuff is ready for testing. [16:38] mathiaz: cool [16:38] ScottK: well - why would there be something not ready for testing in a ppa ? [16:38] you're not using ppa to make sure your packages build correctly [16:38] I thought that was what he wanted a new PPA. [16:39] mathiaz: Ask zul. [16:39] zul: next time you come accross a package that would require a new ppa, could you point it to me ? [16:40] mathiaz: sure will do [16:40] zul: I'm interested to know when that would happen [16:40] zul: and for which reasons [16:41] [TOPIC] text browser on the server cd [16:41] New Topic: text browser on the server cd [16:41] there was a recent thread on -server and -devel about removing w3m from the standard seed [16:41] the consensus seemed that w3m should be removed from standard [16:41] i find w3m really useful [16:41] We've got plenty of room on the server CD, right? [16:41] * nijaba votes for moving it to the server seed [16:42] the question is wheter we should includ it in the server seed [16:42] * nxvl votes for it also [16:42] it is useful for reading the html serverguide :) [16:42] or drop it from the server seed [16:42] nealmcb: had some interesting questions thogh [16:42] elinks is on the server cd isnt it? [16:42] * jdstrand thinks it should be on the cd [16:42] elinks for example [16:42] so one question: should w3m be installed by default in ubuntu server ? [16:43] (or at least one text browser [16:43] ) [16:43] i believe that one of lynx/elinks/w3m should be in the default server install [16:43] choice, security issues, etc. when the network is down it is nice to not be stuck on a system without a text browser [16:43] It's there now. We shouldn't remove it without a good reason. [16:43] * Brazen thinks it should not be on the server cd [16:43] * sommer_ concurs with kirkland [16:43] Why not? [16:43] i have stood at a console of a server, in a lab, and needed a web browser [16:43] last I saw, w3m seemed best, but I heard those arguments for elinks and want to know more [16:43] the qa tests for the cd uses w3m btw [16:44] * nijaba agrees with kirkland [16:44] * jdstrand too [16:44] i did a cursory look over lynx/elinks/w3m ... w3m seemed nicest... cools, keybindings, etc. [16:44] nealmcb: elinks works with things like gmail [16:44] * nealmcb is amazed [16:44] lynx is very, very basic. elinks is a logical followon of lynx [16:44] It's easy enough to install with aptitude [16:44] yep [16:44] +1 for this idea [16:44] i definitely don't think we need more than one of those on the server by default, though [16:44] Brazen: That assumes a network. [16:45] we need a text browser and w3m is the coolest [16:45] ScottK: but if you think it is necessary, you can install it beforehand [16:45] Brazen: What benifit is there to removing it? [16:45] elinks depends on libperl, liblua, libruby [16:45] nxvl: but you ask 3 different sysadmins which is coolest, and you get 3 different answers [16:45] so the use case is "I need a text web browser even if the network is down", then it should be left in [16:45] Brazen: If I knew in advance when I wasn't going to have a network, then I'd probably do that. [16:46] Yes, I can read html in vim, but prefer to avoid it. [16:47] do we have a sense for the security exposure and support costs of the different options? [16:47] ScottK: maybe I'm just a little too paranoid on security, and used the mindset that a browser is about the second worst thing to have on a server next to an X stack [16:47] Brazen: mm, you are right [16:47] allright - so it seems that we have consensus on installing w3m by default during a server install [16:47] what do other distros do? [16:47] I disagree. It's only a risk if it's running and that takes an admin. [16:47] nealmcb: install all of X [16:48] r give you the option to choose package on installation [16:48] nealmcb: RHEL default server includes gnome + firefox [16:48] mathiaz: We already install it by default. There is clearly no consensus to stop doing that. [16:48] as someone on the ml put it, on servers less is more [16:48] ScottK: right - we're already doing it - [16:48] That's probably the biggest issue I have with RHEL [16:48] so the next step is to modify the seed and move w3m from -standard to -server [16:49] Personally I'd put a web server well about a web browser in terms of security risk. [16:49] nijaba: has the -server seed already been created ? [16:49] kirkland: amazing.... [16:49] kinda hard to have a server without any services though [16:49] mathiaz: I have made a proposal to cjwatson, wainting for his feedback [16:49] IIRC w3m is not actively maintained upstream (it's been at 0.5.1 since dapper). elinks is, but has had 3 minor security vulnerabilites in the last 2 years [16:49] Brazen: True, but there are lots of services that aren't web services. [16:50] nijaba: ok [16:50] mathiaz: it includes more changes in the suported seed though [16:50] jdstrand: that was one of the reasons that mdz asked about removing it entirely (non-active upstream) [16:50] ScottK: I don't put a web service on any server that isn't a web server [16:50] Brazen: I think it is entirely approriate to have software that allows you to read the manual that is mentioned in motd [16:51] I'd pick elinks, but don't personally care either way [16:51] ok - so to sumarize: w3m can be removed from the -standard seed and moved to the -server once it's created [16:51] yes [16:51] kirkland: actually, someone else brought that up; I didn't realize upstream was in question [16:51] mdz: sorry, my bad ... /me goes check the thread [16:51] jdstrand: I would expect to be able to read the manual on a workstation, or a testing server. [16:51] mathiaz: I think there are probably other packages which fall into this same category [16:51] jdstrand: that brings up the other question of text browser in main [16:51] I think the standard and minimal seeds should get a thorough review for things which are desktop- or server-specific [16:51] jdstrand: we should only have one [16:51] w3m has a pretty excellent feature set and doesn't seem to have very much wrong with it, maintained or not [16:52] well, need to run i have a meeting in 5 minutes [16:52] see you later! [16:52] * nijaba waves at nxvl [16:52] * kirkland changes attribution of "w3m upstream is dead" from mdz to "Steven Harms" ... sorry [16:52] mdz: agreed - I looked through the seeds during the hardy cycle and nothing stood out [16:53] mdz: but it wasn't with the split between desktop and server in mind [16:53] with all that said, I prefer lynx (just not on a production server :D ) [16:53] mdz: so once the -server seed is created we should defintely revisit this issue [16:53] mathiaz: really? I see a few more things which are questionable [16:53] mathiaz: ntfs-3g isn't of much use on servers [16:54] mathiaz: as said, I have done that for supported and was planning on doing it for standard/minimal as well [16:54] mdz: IIRC there was wpa-supplicant [16:54] don't people share ntfs mounts through samba? [16:54] mdz: I do as well. We discussed having a review at UDS. [16:54] inputattach says it is for serial mice [16:55] dendrobates: right - has this happened ? [16:55] sommer_: that use doesn't require ntfs-3g [16:55] mathiaz: not yet. [16:55] cjwatson: yep, spoke too soon :) [16:55] mdz: joysticks, isn't it? [16:55] sommer_: unless you mean that the NTFS filesystem is hosted on the server itself [16:55] oh, right, and legacy mice [16:56] I think the default server install should be more akin to JEOS (but with full hardware support) and give an option to install a set of "useful administrative packages" [16:56] cjwatson: that is what I was thinking, just remember some bugs about it a while back [16:56] serial mice> more common on servers than anywhere else, I'd expect; ancient hardware lying around in DCs [16:56] sommer_: and in that case folks can install ntfs support themselves... [16:56] cjwatson: but X servers? not so common [16:56] nealmcb: sure, just thought I'd mention the use case [16:56] Keybuk: good call [16:57] Keybuk: true [16:57] inputattach is basically for making them visible to the X server by making /dev/input/blah devices for them [16:57] I don't think gpm uses that [16:57] cjwatson: util-linux-locales is a bit pointless in minimal, since all its files are stripped out into langpacks [16:57] dendrobates: sorry, don't mean to hijack your meeting for a general seed review [16:58] mdz: yes, it should be in supported just so that it stays in main and gets langpack-stripped [16:58] cjwatson: and I agree with mathiaz that wpasupplicant ought to move [16:58] allright - so there seems to be a need for genered seed review - which won't be finished in the next 2 minutes [16:58] But I think Brazen's suggestion of e.g. a minimal server with a tasksel option for stuff like w3m might make sense [16:59] so let's move on [16:59] so is there any ACTION item on this point ? [16:59] have to figure out what would be in the "useful admin packages" section [16:59] nealmcb: the standard seed, clearly [16:59] it seems that we're waiting for the creation of the -server seed [16:59] (that's the obvious way to implement it right now and it's a trivial configuration change. I'm not saying I agree with it BTW) [16:59] mathiaz: Add w3m to the server seed when created. [17:00] w3m (or generally a text browser) belongs in standard [17:00] and then we'll be able to move things around (w3m being amongst the first one) [17:00] IMO [17:00] I would want it in desktop too [17:01] hm - so the position of the server team is that we'd like to have w3m on server installs [17:01] mathiaz: yes, someone needs to review the seeds and report back to the group. [17:01] we're happy to have it in the -server seed - if the desktop team wants it also it could be move to the standard seed [17:02] that seems to be a broader question that may need to be discussed on -devel [17:02] mathiaz: by saying that it should be moved to the server seed, that is equivalent to saying that the desktop team doesn't want it [17:02] which I don't think this meeting is empowered to do ... [17:02] cjwatson: aggreed [17:02] * nealmcb forgets which seed it is in now.... [17:02] Prefix it all with "If removed from standard" [17:02] I don't think the desktop should have a text-based web browser [17:02] feel free to put it in server *as well* to assert that you guys want it anyway [17:02] (or a text-based e-mail client, irc client, etc.) [17:03] * Brazen high-fives Keybuk [17:03] so I'll send a reply to the email thread on -devel with the position of the server team [17:04] [ACTION] mathiaz to send a reply to the thread with the position of the server team [17:04] ACTION received: mathiaz to send a reply to the thread with the position of the server team [17:05] [ACTION] the seeds should be reviewed wrt to the creation of the server seeds [17:05] ACTION received: the seeds should be reviewed wrt to the creation of the server seeds [17:05] Who's action? [17:05]