[01:24] <lamont> Argument "27ubuntu13" isn't numeric in numeric lt (<) at /usr/bin/bts line 3039.
[01:24] <lamont> hrm...
[05:20] <kees> owch.  something in udev or lvm has regressed -- uuids aren't being picked up for my lvm partitions any more.
[05:21] <TheMuso> kees: Is this intrepid?
[05:22] <kees> TheMuso: yeah, I haven't tracked it down.  I just rebooted before dinner, and I'll probably go digging tomorrow morning.
[05:23] <kees> the new timeout (30s) worked, though.  :)
[05:23] <kees> it's really odd... lvm started fine, just none of the /dev/disk/by-uuid links were created
[05:24] <kees> even after a udevadm trigger
[05:24] <kees> in fact, it's still that way, even outside of the initramfs so hopefully this should be easy to find.  :)
[05:26] <TheMuso> ouch
[05:26]  * Hobbsee cheers, for more non-free software off her computer
[05:26] <kees> Hobbsee: oooh, what'd you eliminate?
[05:26] <persia> Hobbsee: What did you purge?
[05:27] <Hobbsee> kees: adobe reader.
[05:27] <kees> whoa, didn't that go away in edgy?  :P
[05:27]  * Hobbsee doesn't have to use pdf's which require user input anymore.
[05:27] <kees> ah-ha!
[05:27] <Hobbsee> sure, so i had to install it locally, for the last couple of years.
[05:29] <kees> TheMuso: hmmmm... something is causing 65-dmsetup.rules not to run (I can see due to the wrong blockdev --getra settings
[05:32] <kees> TheMuso: ah-ha.
[05:32] <kees> TheMuso: DM_TARGET_TYPES doesn't seem to exist any more
[05:32] <TheMuso> ah
[05:33] <kees> sudo /sbin/dmsetup export -j254 -m11
[05:33] <TheMuso> lovely
[05:33] <kees> so it sees it as an empty target and skips it
[06:08] <kees> TheMuso: I lied -- I didn't wait until tomorrow morning.  ;)  Fixed version uploading shortly...
[06:08] <TheMuso> kees: heh
[06:18] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:21] <Hobbsee> hey fabbione
[06:21] <fabbione> morning Hobbsee
[06:22] <fabbione> Hobbsee: how is life down under?
[06:23]  * cody-somerville waves.
[06:30] <pitti> hey fabbione
[06:30] <Hobbsee> fabbione: good - finished exams for the semester :D
[06:30] <pitti> fabbione: so, not kicked out of the soccer championship yet :)
[06:31] <fabbione> hey pitti
[06:32] <fabbione> Hobbsee: congratulation
[06:32] <fabbione> pitti: nope.. not yet :)))))
[06:32] <fabbione> pitti: just waiting for seb128 to shake his hand today :P
[06:53] <TheMuso> 5~/c
[07:01] <dholbach> good morning
[07:02] <ccm> hey dholbach
[07:02] <Hobbsee> dholbach!
[07:02] <dholbach> hi ccm, hi Hobbsee
[07:03] <ccm> dholbach: they really acceppted my pidgin-otr patch upstream yesterday :)
[07:03] <dholbach> ccm: in Debian?
[07:03] <ccm> dholbach: my first real patch :)
[07:03]  * dholbach hugs ccm
[07:03] <ccm> dholbach: in pidgin-otr directly, debian waits for them as they are also informed
[07:03] <dholbach> good work! :)
[07:03] <dholbach> ah great
[07:04] <ccm> i told nobody that i never wrote c code before :)
[07:04]  * Hobbsee is so not liking the fact that flash keeps crashing her firefox.
[07:05] <dholbach> ccm: hehe - that reminds me of mvo telling me after he wrote some of my first C code "maybe you should read the chapter about pointers again" ;-)
[07:05] <nxvl> dholbach: i was just looking for you
[07:05] <nxvl> dholbach: i'm packaging a library
[07:05] <nxvl> dholbach: and it has 2 libraries on the source
[07:05] <nxvl> like it ships with this libraries
[07:05] <dholbach> nxvl: both with different sonames?
[07:06] <nxvl> should i remove them from the orig.tar.gz and link them as build-dep?
[07:06] <dholbach> eh?
[07:06] <nxvl> i have
[07:06] <nxvl> inside the code
[07:06] <dholbach> what does "has 2 libraries on the source" mean?
[07:06] <nxvl> a dir called "gnulib"
[07:06] <dholbach> you mean it ships with the code of two build-deps?
[07:06] <nxvl> inside it there is "lib  m4  tests
[07:07] <nxvl> yep
[07:07] <nxvl> something like that
[07:07] <nxvl> those are 2 gnu libs
[07:07] <dholbach> in that case that makes sense - best to document what you need to do generate your orig tarball
[07:07] <nxvl> well, i think is just one
[07:08] <dholbach> I guess you'll need to remove the dir, change Makefile.am and run automake/autoconf again
[07:08] <nxvl> but it also build the tests, don't know why
[07:08] <dholbach> also I'd talk to upstream
[07:08] <nxvl> yes, that i will at weekend
[07:08] <dholbach> did you check if there's a configure option to build with external libraries?
[07:08] <nxvl> after i finish my tests
[07:08] <nxvl> nop
[07:08] <dholbach> if not, upstream should add it
[07:08] <nxvl> just playing from now on
[07:09] <nxvl> i also tried to check at the src.rpm package
[07:09] <nxvl> but it's a mess
[07:09] <dholbach> sometimes you can pass something like       --libdb-dir=/usr/share/include/something     to let it build with an external library (provided by the distribution)
[07:09] <dholbach> in that case you wouldn't have to repack the tarball
[07:10] <nxvl> but i don't find useful to have a library using bites in the orig.tar.gz without any reason
[07:10] <dholbach> I agree - it's definitely something to ping upstream about
[07:10] <nxvl> i will send them an e-mail
[07:11] <dholbach> excellent
[07:11] <dholbach> what project is it?
[07:12] <nxvl> augeas
[07:12] <nxvl> http://augeas.net
[07:13] <dholbach> ah right - there was something in the server team meeting about it, right?
[07:14] <nxvl> yup
[07:14] <nxvl> and i'm taking care of it
[07:14]  * dholbach hugs nxvl
[07:14] <dholbach> keep up the good work!
[07:14]  * nxvl HUGS dholbach back
[07:14] <nxvl> btw
[07:15] <nxvl> on Friday i show your packaging101 video
[07:15] <nxvl> it was cool for a quick introduction
[07:16] <nxvl> then when i explain everything in more detail and do all the work with them they understand quicker
[07:16] <dholbach> great - I'm very happy it was useful to you
[07:16] <nxvl> yes, it was great since i use ed to :D
[07:17] <nxvl> i will use it from now on
[07:17] <dholbach> hehe
[07:17] <cody-somerville> Does anyone know how I can find out whats on the other side of a socket?
[07:17] <nxvl> and it seems i have a lot of Packaging Jams comming in the short time
[07:17] <nxvl> :D
[07:17] <nxvl> cody-somerville: as in?
[07:17] <dholbach> really? where are you going to run them?
[07:18] <nxvl> i'm running some workshops on my university
[07:18] <cody-somerville> nxvl, like, I see process has fd X open and it is a socket
[07:18] <nxvl> every Friday i think
[07:18] <cody-somerville> nxvl, how do I see what is on the other end of the socket?
[07:18] <nxvl> last one was about packaging 101
[07:18] <nxvl> this friday i will patch some bitsize
[07:18] <dholbach> nxvl: great
[07:18] <nxvl> next saturday (i thin) i'm going to other university to run one
[07:19] <dholbach> nxvl: I'm so happy to see South America kicking arse like that
[07:19] <nxvl> cody-somerville: oh! as in that, don't know, sorry
[07:19] <nxvl> dholbach: my goal is to have at least 5 people involved for end of year
[07:19] <dholbach> if you look at the GlobalBugJam page, most Bug Jams look like they're happening in South America :)
[07:20] <dholbach> ROCK! :)
[07:20]  * dholbach hugs nxvl
[07:20] <pwnguin> cody-somerville: netstat?
[07:20] <pwnguin> yea, netstat
[07:21] <cody-somerville> pwnguin, Isn't that only for network sockets?
[07:21] <pwnguin> you should try it on a desktop real quick and look
[07:22] <cody-somerville> interesting
[07:22] <pwnguin> UNIX sockets are sockets too
[07:22] <cody-somerville> does the I-Node correspond to the number given by looking at where the fd links to?
[07:23] <pwnguin> it should
[07:23] <pwnguin> i mean, that's how I'd write it
[07:23] <pwnguin> but thats not always a good way to reason about things ;)
[07:24] <cody-somerville> hmm..
[07:24]  * nxvl HUGS dholbach back
[07:24] <dholbach> :)
[07:24] <cody-somerville> It doesn't seem to give me anything useful though
[07:24] <nxvl> dholbach: there is already one on his way to motu
[07:25] <cody-somerville> pwnguin, If I see that an application is hanging waiting for activity on fd which is a socket, whats the best way to debug?
[07:25] <nxvl> dholbach: Roaksoax
[07:26] <dholbach> ah great
[07:26] <nxvl> dholbach: also i have 2 people saying they will start some day
[07:26] <nxvl> but i don't belive them anymore
[07:26] <pwnguin> cody-somerville: you might want to file a bug against the manpage
[07:26] <nxvl> i hope that in the GBJ more people come into the project
[07:26] <pwnguin> for netstat
[07:26] <pwnguin> it's not done =(
[07:26] <nxvl> it is a really good way to teach people the full process of a bug report and how to contribute
[07:27] <nxvl> :D
[07:27]  * cody-somerville narrows eyes.
[07:27] <nxvl> and since i'm getting out of time because of the work i will need to focus on recluting some people, didn't i?
[07:27] <pwnguin> cody-somerville: http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~beej/guide/ipc/
[07:29] <nxvl> ok, now time for bed
[07:29] <nxvl> see you later
[07:29] <dholbach> sleep tight
[07:29] <nxvl> thanks!
[07:29] <cody-somerville> pwnguin, Although that looks like a good guide to using unix sockets pragmatically, it is lacking on debugging of said applications.
[07:30] <pwnguin> doh
[07:31] <pwnguin> ok, well this is a bit hamhanded, but you could strace one side of it
[07:35] <cody-somerville> I did strace it
[07:35] <cody-somerville> and it told me that it was hanging on fd 13 which is a socket
[07:36] <pwnguin> so what's on the other side of it?
[07:37] <cody-somerville> Thats what I'm trying to figure out :)
[07:37] <cody-somerville> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus/+bug/232364 for details
[07:37] <pwnguin> hmm. that sounds like a bug i'd like fixed
[07:38] <cody-somerville> same here :)
[07:49]  * pitti hugs kees for his devmapper fix; I think that fixes bug 238793?
[07:49] <pitti> kees: thanks for cleaning up after me
[08:00] <pwnguin> cody-somerville: ok. so after reviewing the internet literature, inodes are unique per connection, and the file is the name space
[08:02] <pwnguin> cody-somerville: wait, how is this guy running 2.6.26?
[08:05] <cody-somerville> pwnguin, maybe it is a typo
[08:06] <cody-somerville> I experience the issue too and I'm using the vanilla ubuntu kernel so that can't be it
[08:07] <pwnguin> you dont typo -rc3 but you're right, it's got dupes so that's probably not it
[08:10] <pwnguin> cody-somerville: so lsof gives an inode. use that to find the file name with "netstat | grep $fid", then "netstat --programs | grep $filename"
[08:11] <cody-somerville> pwnguin, Okay. I'll do that the next time it freezes.
[08:12] <pwnguin> good luck!
[08:12] <cody-somerville> Considering the backtrace, would it not be safe to assume though that it is the bilateral connection to the X server consider what dbus-launch --exit-with-session does?
[08:17] <cody-somerville> Interesting.
[08:18] <pwnguin> cody-somerville: im afraid im not qualified to understand half of that question
[08:19] <cody-somerville> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/dbus/main/revision/1652
[08:19] <cody-somerville> Could passing an int when a long is expected cause the crash? :/
[08:19]  * fabbione hugs seb128 
[08:20] <seb128> hey fabbione, is that because of the football game yesterday? ;-)
[08:20] <fabbione> indeed :)
[08:20] <fabbione> i was just waiting for you ;)
[08:21] <seb128> hehe
[08:21] <seb128> can't always win ;-)
[08:21] <pwnguin> cody-somerville: that diff is too big =(
[08:21] <fabbione> oh i know.. it will be our turn sooner or later
[08:21] <seb128> I've been impressed by how netherland has been playing, let's see what they do next ;-)
[08:21] <cody-somerville> pwnguin, very bottom
[08:21] <fabbione> but the feeling of "twice in a raw" between World Champion and EU cup... is GOOD! :P
[08:24] <pwnguin> cody-somerville: i guess you're bisecting it?
[08:26] <cody-somerville> It is freezing when opening the connection to the xserver,
[08:28] <pwnguin> i think this is a race
[08:31] <pwnguin> im not sure what happens if a message is sent before dbus-launcher has connected
[08:39] <pwnguin> the number of race condition bug reports in dbus bugzilla is not endearing
[08:40] <cody-somerville> pwnguin, join #xfce-dev
[08:40] <cody-somerville> please :)
[08:49] <psypointer> hi
[08:50] <psypointer> i'm working with the ubuntu hardy proposed webinstaller. i've got many problems with the client installation. at the package installation the downloading of a random package often fails with "400 Host Header missing"
[08:50] <psypointer> is this a known bug?
[08:51] <psypointer> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/21096/ thats the syslog
[08:53] <ion_> Broken server at http://10.255.255.250/?
[08:54] <psypointer> ion_: that would mean that apt-cacher is broken..
[08:55] <psypointer> (verifying this is my next step, but this would be really strange)
[09:03] <psypointer> hm, not it seems to work after manually starting the cleanup script. i'll fill a bug report, bye
[09:04] <Chipzz> pitti: did you check if the new dhcp3-server-ldap package actually works? I had some minor problems with that package installed from debian testing a while ago
[09:05] <Chipzz> pitti: it lacked a directory in IIRC /var/lib
[09:05] <Chipzz> (yeah I should have filed a bug report in debian :P)
[09:15] <fabbione> dendrobates: ping?
[09:15] <dendrobates> fabbione: hey.
[09:16] <fabbione> hey dude
[09:16] <fabbione> got a minute?
[09:16] <dendrobates> fabbione: for you, of course.
[09:16] <fabbione> ehehe :)
[09:16] <fabbione> dendrobates: http://www.redhat.com/archives/cluster-devel/2008-June/msg00116.html
[09:16] <fabbione> dendrobates: ^^ maybe somebody in the server team might be interested
[09:17] <dendrobates> fabbione: where will it be held?
[09:17] <fabbione> dendrobates: like it's writted down in the email.. depends from the list of participants
[09:18] <cody-somerville> pwnguin, are you coming back?
[09:18] <fabbione> dendrobates: we will calculate the center of the universe for the devels that will be there and then decide a location
[09:18] <pwnguin> nope
[09:18] <fabbione> dendrobates: dates maybe August or from mid-Sept to end-Oct
[09:18] <pwnguin> that got outta my league fast
[09:18] <fabbione> dendrobates: depending on venues availability
[09:18] <cody-somerville> pwnguin, but we're making progress :)
[09:18] <fabbione> dendrobates: but mostlikely US... exactly where i can't say
[09:18]  * cody-somerville is way way out of his league too ;]
[09:19] <dendrobates> fabbione: ok, I'll discuss it with the team.
[09:19] <fabbione> dendrobates: ok cool.
[09:19] <pwnguin> cody-somerville: 80 percent of development is reading code. i suggest finding people who've already read the code and ask their opinions
[09:19]  * cody-somerville nods.
[09:45] <pitti> Chipzz: actually no, I don't have an ldap setup; however, -ldap just diverts the binary from -server
[10:37] <slangasek> mvo: ping on bug #220890; should this get uploaded to hardy-proposed?
[10:44] <mvo> slangasek: I would rather want to have it tested first, but if there is no ppc available, then -proposed is the only option
[10:58] <cody-somerville> pwnguin, btw, does dbus-launch --exit-with-session run for you in gnome?
[10:58] <cody-somerville> It isn't for me.
[11:00] <Tim20> im trying to build 2 deb packages, when running dpkg-buildpackage on the second, i get the error "dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for <lib from first deb>". i've tried making a postinst file on the first deb to run ldconfig, and i've tried making the first deb via checkinstall, but neither method worked.
[11:02]  * Hobbsee wonders who broke the intrepid mimetypes.
[11:05] <Hobbsee> unless i'ts somehow pebkac.
[11:05] <Hobbsee> seems that one program will try to open all files now.
[11:12] <cjwatson> Tim20: are the two binary packages built from a single source package?
[11:12] <pitti> anyone here using PostgreSQL? I need some testing feedback in bug 238587
[11:13] <pitti> I tested them myself thoroughly, so I think they are good, but for SRU I need a second "thumbs up"
[11:13] <Tim20> cjwatson, no, and one is a single lib package
[11:14] <Tim20> may have fixed it, just rebuilding them now. cross fingers. :)
[11:33] <Chipzz> pitti: you don't need an actual ldap setup to test it; traditional config file will work too
[11:35] <Chipzz> or rather, break when it finds that directory doesn't exist
[11:36] <pitti> Chipzz: ah, is that Debian bug 484424?
[11:37] <Chipzz> pitti: yeah
[11:37] <Chipzz> pitti: I suspect it's missing a configure option to specify the correct dir?
[11:38] <pitti> I guess so, yes
[11:44] <Chipzz> pitti: hrrrm, just took a look at the build log; apparently no such option is passed to either build?
[11:45] <Chipzz> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15370081/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.dhcp3_3.1.1-1ubuntu1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
[11:49] <pitti> seb128: are you currently working on a gdm merge?
[11:49] <pitti> seb128: I wonder whether I should apply lifeless' small patch in bug 234101 now, or just ask you to include it
[11:49] <seb128> pitti: as said before there is no merge required, we need to package the rewrite
[11:50] <seb128> pitti: feel free to upload that if you want, packaging the new gdm will take some time
[11:50] <pitti> ok
[11:50] <seb128> especially that I don't know what to do about the configuration
[11:50] <seb128> it moved from a text file to gconf and don't have the same option
[11:50] <seb128> and there is no migration code
[11:50] <seb128> I'm wondering if we should attempt to write one
[11:51] <pitti> gconf?
[11:51] <pitti> oh, right. gdm user
[11:52] <pitti> seb128: is that the file gdmconfig writes?
[11:52] <pitti> in this case it would be nice indeed
[11:52] <seb128> pitti: yes
[11:52] <pitti> bummer
[11:52] <seb128> would be nice but it'll not be trivial
[11:52] <seb128> especially that some of the option don't exit in the new code
[11:53] <seb128> s/exit/exist
[11:53] <pitti> right, was just going to say
[11:53] <pitti> no need to handle options which can't be sensibly mapped to the new code
[12:09] <emgent> morning
[12:19] <jdstrand> hi Riddell! Now that I got the samba update out the door, I have (finally) moved my focus to chmlib. kees and I will talk about libzip too
[12:21] <Riddell> jdstrand: I'm holding my breath!
[12:21] <jdstrand> heh
[12:23] <broonie>  /win 24
[12:25] <emgent> morning dendrobates
[12:57] <Hobbsee> slangasek: did you want to look into https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnuplot/+bug/195111 ?  Looks like it needs demoting to multiverse.
[12:59] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: the requirement to distribute as patches is explicitly allowed by http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/licensing
[12:59] <cjwatson> which other part of that is non-free?
[13:02] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: oh, my error.
[13:03] <cjwatson> the only bit flagged by debian-legal as potentially awkward was the contact identification thing, which could be read to prohibit anonymous modifications (although I don't buy that inference)
[13:04] <cjwatson> happy to have a second opinion, but I think it's fre
[13:04] <cjwatson> e
[13:04] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: can i yoink your comments, and mark as invalid?
[13:04] <cjwatson> (and indeed I think there *should* be a second opinion)
[13:05] <cjwatson> iff you have thought about my arguments and agree with them :-)
[13:05] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: oh, i see your arguments.  my brain is just somewhat still fried by the maths this morning.
[13:36] <cody-somerville> pitti, you did a lot of the work on avahi, right?
[13:38] <cody-somerville> cjwatson, are we able to move the Xubuntu seeds yet?
[13:49] <pitti> cody-somerville: not that much actually
[13:49] <cody-somerville> pitti, would it be safe to set the avahi stuff as recommends in the seeds?
[13:49] <pitti> cody-somerville: which 'stuff'?
[13:50] <cody-somerville> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/192258
[13:52] <pitti> cody-somerville: ugh, long vehicle
[13:53] <pitti> cody-somerville: I didn't find an actual reason why it shouldn't be installed by default, though?
[13:54] <cody-somerville> pitti, I just want to allow the guy to be able to uninstall it w/o having to remove xubuntu-desktop
[13:54] <pitti> cody-somerville: suggests in metapackages do not make sense; downgrading to recommends is doable, of course, and should be done, so that people can uninstall avahi if they want to
[13:54]  * cody-somerville nods.
[13:54] <cody-somerville> My thinking exactly.
[13:55] <pitti> cody-somerville: but I would heavily object to dropping it altogether
[13:55] <pitti> stuff like nss-mdns is soo useful, and not a security threat at all
[13:55]  * cody-somerville nods.
[13:55] <cody-somerville> I just wanted to make sure it is safe to set it as a recommend :)
[13:55] <pitti> cody-somerville: I'll comment on the bug
[13:56] <cody-somerville> Ok
[13:56]  * ogra_cmpc thinks the only problem avahi really has is lots of people not really knowing anything about it and spreading FUD
[13:57] <ogra_cmpc> i havre run in so obscure arguments in discusssions already :)
[13:57] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: so we need to run two identical branches in parallel for a while, until we get the LP code change made
[13:58] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: just push the usual branch to wherever the new location ought to be *as well*
[13:58] <cody-somerville> cjwatson, okay.
[13:58] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: and, for a while, you'll need to remember to push to both places
[13:58] <cody-somerville> cjwatson, I can't push to core-dev
[13:58] <cjwatson> well, push to the new location and get somebody to pull from there to core-dev, then
[13:59] <cjwatson> which team were you going to use for the new seeds? I think I'd recommend just xubuntu-dev
[13:59] <cjwatson> ideally it ought to match the set of people you'd like to be able to upload Xubuntu packages in general (in the as-yet-unimplemented new world order)
[14:00]  * cody-somerville nods.
[14:04] <\sh> pitti: will you kill me, when I ask you to add libnspr* to ia32-libs? ,->
[14:06] <pitti> cody-somerville: answered
[14:07] <pitti> \sh: ugh?
[14:07] <seb128> hey doko
[14:08] <seb128> doko: do you plan to do a subversion upload to intrepid soon?
[14:08] <doko> seb128: no, not this week. is 1.5 released?
[14:09] <seb128> doko: no, but it creates installability issues in intrepid
[14:09] <seb128> it needs a rebuild
[14:10] <seb128> doko: gicmo would like to be able to use git-svn again to be able to commit fixes to GNOME ;-)
[14:10] <rexium> hey everyone, I have noticed a problem with openexr. With the release of openexr 1.6.1, upstream has seperated out some of the code into a package called ilmbase. Ilmbase has been auto-synced but it is in universe. Openexr has been modified in debian unstable to reflect the dependancy change but now would depend on a package in universe. Suggestions on how to handle this? Also, is there any documentation I can read about handleing library tra
[14:10] <rexium> nsitions?
[14:11] <rexium> I should note that openexr1.6.1 is held up in a merge (though I think it could be a sync)
[14:13] <doko> seb128: I'll see what I can do
[14:13] <seb128> doko: thanks
[14:13] <rexium> doko, you are listed as the last uploader for openexr, do you have any ideas?
[14:13] <doko> rexium: ideas about what?
[14:14] <rexium> doko, Openexr, have a look at the scrollback
[14:15] <doko> rexium: please file a MIR for ilmbase, and then a sync request (or propose a merge in a bug report)
[14:15] <rexium> ok
[14:16] <emgent> dendrobates: take a look http://en.emanuele-gentili.com/index.php/2008/06/18/rapache-02-1-alpha-packaged/
[14:19] <dendrobates> emgent: ok,
[14:20] <emgent> dendrobates: now work only in local, in stage-3 i will add ssh support for remote managing.
[14:20] <gicmo> mvo: an update of compiz wants to remove compizconfig-backend-gconf, is that ok?
[14:20] <dendrobates> emgent:  it looks interesting, I'll install it and see what I think.
[14:21] <seb128> gicmo: you should rather wait for this one to build
[14:21] <gicmo> oh
[14:21] <gicmo> ;-)
[14:22] <gicmo> I realized that updating would work anyways due to dependency issues
[14:22] <seb128> wouldn't?
[14:22] <gicmo> exactly
[14:23] <mvo> gicmo: hm, I need to check that, it sounds like one of the dependencies is not updated correctly - thanks for letting me know
[14:23] <mvo> gicmo: wait a sec with the compiz update first please
[14:23] <gicmo> mvo: sure
[14:23] <mvo> until the new compizconfig-backend-gconf is build
[14:25] <gicmo> ok
[14:29] <emgent> dendrobates: ok thanks, i'm thinking to possiility to add rapache in intrepid (stable version)
[14:29] <emgent> s/possiility/possibility/
[14:31] <\sh> pitti: I've been playing with Adobe Flash Media Server...and it needs libnspr* in i386 mode :)
[14:31] <\sh> pitti: and some symlinks to simple .so links to the libs :) so that it can run properly...could be needed for the server flavour and gives RHEL a good clap
[14:50] <greedo> hello, i would like to know if System > Preferences > Keyboard shortcuts is ubuntu specific or if it's just a gnome feature
[14:51] <greedo> the reason why i'm asking is because shortcuts are associated with keycodes but the keycodes don't have keysym attached
[14:51] <greedo> so querying the keyboard mapping through xlib returns keycodes that are apparently unused but this is not the case in fact since they trigger global shortcuts
[14:53] <rexium> doko, fyi, I  have filed the MIR
[14:58] <mterry> greedo: I believe it's a GNOME thing
[15:02] <greedo> mterry: ok, well on #gnome-hackers they told me it's an ubuntu thing :)
[15:07] <mterry> greedo: Then they must be right.  :)
[15:41] <zul> pitti: hi can you accept the samba sitting in proposed? thanks
[16:09] <pitti> zul: please talk to slangasek now, since we are frozen for .1
[16:09] <zul> pitti: okies I will thanks
[17:01] <kees> pitti: ah! I hadn't found the LP bug for the dmsetup uuid breakage.  no problem -- certainly not your fault, debian reduced the "export" patch for some reason.
[17:02] <pitti> kees: well, I should have tested it better before upload; but I didn't actually test it with root-on-raid *brown paperbag*
[17:04] <jetsaredim> ﻿if i've run into an issue with the installation cd for ubuntu-server - what package would i file that bug against?
[17:04] <MacSlow> anybody with some knowledge about consolekit... who might know where the binary ck-get-x11-display-device should come from?
[17:04] <cody-somerville> jetsaredim, At what point did the install problem occur?
[17:04] <jetsaredim> cody-somerville: two places
[17:04] <pitti> MacSlow: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=ck-get-x11-display-device&mode=exactfilename&suite=hardy&arch=any
[17:05] <pitti> MacSlow: "locate ck-get-x11", too
[17:05] <jetsaredim> first - failed to detect cdrom drive so I had to get to the shell and modprobe ide_generic
[17:05] <MacSlow> pitti, ah... forgot about the handy tool locate... thanks!
[17:05] <kees> pitti: heh.  well, it still may not have shown up without UUID-based lvm mounts (many people mount via the /dev/mapper name).  regardless, it was fun to use my udev debugging skills.  :)
[17:05] <jetsaredim> second - during the disk wizard the / partition was not marked as bootable
[17:05] <seb128> pitti: dlocate rather if you are searching which package is providing the binary
[17:06] <jetsaredim> third (did I say two?) - after the install the system failed to boot
[17:07] <cody-somerville> jetsaredim, https://launchpad.net/debian-installer
[17:09] <tormod> we have an issue with the live CD eagerly mounting swap from raid raw devices, can someone have a look at bug #136804?
[17:10] <pitti> cjwatson: hm; do you have any idea why avahi-daemon is a dependency in ubuntu-desktop? It's not seeded anywhere
[17:10] <cody-somerville> pitti, I think it is in platform maybe?
[17:10] <pitti> oh, right
[17:11] <tormod> sorry wrong channel, I though this was #ubuntu-installer for a second
[17:11] <cjwatson> pitti: platform.intrepid/desktop-common
[17:12] <cjwatson> jetsaredim: it isn't usually necessary for / to be marked as bootable - BIOSes just need *a* bootable partition
[17:12] <pitti> cjwatson: thanks
[17:12] <cjwatson> Windows cares, but Ubuntu doesn't
[17:12] <cjwatson> so we leave it alone unless there's no bootable partition on the disk
[17:13] <cjwatson> jetsaredim: CD drive not detected is a kernel problem; /ubuntu/+source/linux
[17:13] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: please don't file bugs on /debian-installer - /ubuntu/+source/debian-installer at most
[17:13] <cjwatson> /debian-installer is the upstream project
[17:15] <pitti> cody-somerville: bug 192258 updated
[17:21]  * sladen celebrates filing a bug with three zeros at the end
[17:21] <sladen> ...that's only happened about 250 times before!
[17:24] <persia> sladen: For extra points, try for 4 zeros :)
[17:27] <slangasek> pitti: ref zul's samba SRU - if we're going to change the smbclient defaults for .1, then I need to reject that other SRU; if we're going to leave the smbclient defaults alone, then it stays put until after .1
[17:29] <norsetto> mvo: are you around?
[17:33] <slangasek> pitti: so I'm still hoping you'll tell me which way we should go on the smbclient question for SRU, since I feel I should recuse myself
[17:37] <cjwatson> hmm, so an intrepid daily now exists, but the boot loader is mysteriously a bit buggered
[17:38] <cjwatson> but, it boots ...
[17:38] <cjwatson> detect keyboard layout hosed
[17:39] <cjwatson> fails to mount CD. damn.
[17:44] <cjwatson> ah, no isofs
[17:53] <james_w> doko: mind if I ask for ca-certificates to be synced? Debian uploaded a fixed package.
[17:55] <doko> james_w: sure, there is one ubuntu change outstanding
[17:59] <james_w> doko: ah, sorry, we don't want to sync really, as they now have the fix that we dropped post-hardy.
[18:08] <slangasek> zul: ah, your SRU has a version number conflict with a security update anyway, it seems; rejecting from the queue
[18:09] <slangasek> zul: ... rather, the first one, not the second renumbered one
[18:09] <zul> yeah that was uploaded this morning
[18:09] <cody-somerville> pitti, thanks.
[18:12] <pitti> slangasek: hm, I thought I agreed to the compromise of reenabling LANMAN in hardy and disabling it in intrepid?
[18:13] <pitti> slangasek: (assuming that LANMAN is "insecure" as in md5, and not as in libssl/hardy-final
[18:13] <slangasek> pitti: is "agreeing to" the same as telling me I should upload it?
[18:13] <slangasek> :-)
[18:13] <pitti> slangasek: at this point it seems like the only realistic alternative for .1 anyway, so yes
[18:13] <slangasek> it's unhashed, case-insensitive, 7-bytes-at-a-time md4
[18:14] <slangasek> so it's significantly more insecure than md4, if you MITM it
[18:14] <slangasek> er, more insecure than md5
[18:14] <pitti> slangasek: so, it's not completely broken, just terribly weak, such as WEP64
[18:15] <slangasek> pitti: well, consider that a client can be tricked by an attacker into using LANMAN when it's enabled on the client side, instead of using NTLM
[18:15] <e-gandalf> asac: ping
[18:15] <seb128> pitti, slangasek: I agree that we should do the change for 8.04.1 because we will not change gvfs to handle that nicely before 8.04.1
[18:16] <slangasek> pitti: thus compromising a user password that may be used in contexts where the security is assumed to be much stronger than just LANMAN
[18:16] <seb128> we might want to reconsider for 8.04.2 ;-)
[18:21] <slangasek> pitti: so, with that additional explanation, what's your position?
[18:28] <nxvl> hi
[18:29] <nxvl> i'm having some problems/questions packaging a library
[18:29] <nxvl> the library ships with gnulib in the source
[18:29] <nxvl> so i'm removing it from the source to add it as Build-Depend
[18:29] <nxvl> but it's kind of hard coded on the Makefile and configure script
[18:30] <nxvl> did anyone can point me to the best way to deal with this?
[18:30] <seb128> slangasek: btw upstream is working on fixing the authorization changes, they spotted issues with your new version
[18:31] <seb128> slangasek: the guy reviewing it said it broke the anonymous login case
[18:33] <slangasek> seb128: um, ok; do you know how he intends to fix that without a completely new UI?
[18:33] <pitti> slangasek: my gut feeling says to keep it disabled, and the pragmatical pressure from users to reenable it; so TBH I'm not 100% sure myself
[18:34] <slangasek> pitti: well, you and seb128 pick an option please, and let me know if I should upload :)
[18:35] <pitti> seb128: I'd lean towards keeping the status quo and fix it post .2, since, as you just said, there are new issues with slangasek's proposal, and the matter is still not fully discussed?
[18:35] <pitti> erm, post .1
[18:36] <slangasek> pitti: his comment above is in reference to a different bug
[18:36] <pitti> ah, ok
[18:38] <seb128> slangasek: what new ui?
[18:38] <pitti> seb128: the proper error reporting, I guess
[18:38] <seb128> slangasek: well it should at least ask for a password when anonymous login is not authorized
[18:38] <pitti> "unsafe server configuration, see README"?
[18:39] <slangasek> seb128: I don't know - how can he "fix" the anonymous case, when the whole problem in this bug is that anonymous logins were being given precedence over authenticated logins
[18:39] <pitti> and README describes how to poke the admin, or the workaround with enabling LANMAN in smb.conf
[18:39] <slangasek> seb128: if it only asks for a password when anonymous login is not authorized, then we have the same exact behavior we have now
[18:39] <slangasek> pitti: talking about the other bug, again ;)
[18:40] <pitti> hm; sorry; *which* bug are we currently discussing then?
[18:40] <mario_limonciell> before the system goes down for a reboot at the end of the install, should all modules already be properly unloaded (eg rmmod), or is it possible that some will  be left dangling?
[18:40] <pitti> slangasek: I think I only discussed the LANMAN bug with you
[18:40] <slangasek> pitti: bug #207072
[18:40] <seb128> pitti: right the second one is work in progress and there is not much to discuss
[18:41] <seb128> slangasek: well the issue is that right now it nevers ask for a password, anonymous and password being authorized is yet another case and trickier to solve
[18:41] <seb128> you don't want to ask for a password when anonymous works
[18:41] <pitti> seb128: so for that second one, we keep current samba and provide better error message after .1; is that still the consensus?
[18:41] <seb128> and you still want to be able to provide one if required
[18:41] <seb128> pitti: yes
[18:42] <slangasek> seb128: er, yes, you /do/ want to ask for a password when anonymous works; anonymous "works" with all of the servers of the people subscribed to that bug, it just gives an empty list of available shares
[18:43] <pitti> so ideally the dialog would always present user/password, but if you don't enter anything, try anonymous?
[18:43] <pitti> (and point that out in the dialog)
[18:43] <pitti> well always present -> if there's nothing in the keyring
[18:43] <slangasek> ideally something along those lines, yes
[18:44] <pitti> anyway, I need to leave for Taekwondo; but I have no clue about this bug anyway
[18:44] <slangasek> seb128: if we're not going to solve the problem that unauthenticated connections will succeed but give you the wrong share list, then we're not addressing the problem the users are having in that bug, so we might as well forget about SRUing anything
[18:45] <slangasek> pitti: waaaait, am I uploading samba or not? :-)
[18:45] <pitti> slangasek: that samba upload is for yet another bug then?
[18:45] <slangasek> pitti: the samba upload is for the LANMAN bug
[18:45] <seb128> slangasek: yes, we have consensus for this one
[18:45] <pitti>    pitti| seb128: so for that second one, we keep current samba and provide better error
[18:46] <pitti>           message after .1; is that still the consensus?
[18:46] <pitti>  seb128| pitti: yes
[18:46] <slangasek> ok, so - no upload of samba
[18:46] <slangasek> thanks :)
[18:46] <pitti> I vote for that, too; WDYT?
[18:46] <seb128> oh, I didn't understood it this way
[18:46] <pitti> I really like to err on the side of correctness, TBH
[18:46] <seb128> hum
[18:46] <seb128> I really like to be on the "just work" side
[18:46] <pitti> seb128: ok, once again I'm confused
[18:46]  * pitti arghs
[18:46] <slangasek> :-)
[18:46] <seb128> so I would authorize those login until we have the error dialog
[18:47] <pitti> "go to square one. do not pull $4000"
[18:47] <seb128> sorry too many things at the same time
[18:48] <seb128> we always had those authorized and that has never been an issue until now
[18:48] <slangasek> I think I find seb128's position persuasive
[18:49] <pitti> well, md5 and weak ssl keys also hadn't been an issue until someone discovered that they are bad
[18:49] <pitti> admittedly I still don't have a clear idea how weak the LANMAN keys actually are, but Steve made me think it's dead easy to break them
[18:50] <slangasek> if you MITM the connection, yes
[18:50] <seb128> pitti: let's continue that discussion later or you will miss your classes
[18:50] <pitti> so if we can say in good faith "it's easier to bruteforce your password than MITM/mathematically break LANMAN", I'm ok with enabling
[18:50] <pitti> if it's dead easy as in "significantly easier than bruteforcing passwords", then I don't think we should allow it any further
[18:51] <slangasek> significantly easier
[18:52] <pitti> and while we won't provide better errors in .1, we should still aim to provide them within a reasonable time frame, such as a month from now, or so
[18:52] <slangasek> anyway, if we let this go much further without a decision, the default is going to be to not change samba for .1
[18:54] <seb128> let's decide tomorrow morning
[18:54] <slangasek> ok
[18:54] <seb128> no other distribution did the change and we used the non secure thing until now
[18:54] <pitti> so, I think I pointed out my personal opinion, based on the facts I read so far (weakness of keys, and percentage of affected users)
[18:55] <seb128> so I think we can live with the option on until we figure something
[18:55] <seb128> and solve that in hardy-updates after 8.04.1
[18:55] <slangasek> seb128: OTOH, the change is made upstream for samba 3.2, which will release in the next two months and is already targeted for next Fedora, at least
[18:55] <seb128> solution = ui in nautilus
[18:55] <slangasek> so by the time we get done re-enabling it, others will be disabling it ;)
[18:56]  * pitti <- really has to run now, sorry
[18:56] <seb128> pitti: see you later
[18:56]  * slangasek waves. Sorry for holding you up :)
[18:56] <pitti> no problem; I'll just bicycle a little faster :)
[18:57] <seb128> that's tricky, but I'm not a security guy so I'm not best placed to judge how much exposure to attacks it gives
[18:58] <seb128> I guess I'm fine with letting it this way and pushing gvfs or nautilus changes to hardy-updates after 8.04.1
[19:10] <YokoZar> Was there a new date for Intrepid Alpha 1?
[19:11] <ogra> YokoZar, hey, congrats to v1.0
[19:12] <YokoZar> ogra: Thank you.  I spent all yesterday getting 1.0 working on everything from Dapper to Intrepid (also Etch) :)
[19:12] <ogra> cool
[19:17] <gicmo> mvo: Hey, the buttons are working correctly again, thanks champ!
[19:21] <kees> hm, kinda cool: http://start.gotapi.com/
[19:32] <nxvl> lucas: around?
[19:46] <bryce> kees: hey do you know if there is a tool for taking a debian changelog and a ubuntu changelog and merging them together (like MoM does)?
[19:46] <jdstrand> kees: what do you think about the libzip audit?
[19:46] <kees> bryce: beyond just a straight "diff" or possibly interdiff, not really
[19:46] <kees> bryce: but I think the MoM source is somewhere in bzr, but I can never remember where
[19:46] <jdstrand> kees: it's small but I may not finish til beginning of next week
[19:47] <kees> jdstrand: I haven't had time yet to look at it, and I suspect I'm going to be baby-sitting the kernel security publication for a while today.
[19:47] <bryce> hmm
[19:47] <kees> jdstrand: if I have time, I'll snag it, otherwise we can work it out tomorrow.  :)
[19:47] <jdstrand> kees: I just finished chmlib, and am audited out for today
[19:47] <kees> anyone know what replaces iceape-dev?
[19:47] <jdstrand> kees: so I guess we'll battle it out then :)
[19:47] <kees> :)
[19:48] <slangasek> isn't iceape obsolete?  that would be "seamonkey", which was the monolithic suite
[19:48] <bryce> aha https://code.launchpad.net/merge-o-matic
[19:48] <kees> slangasek: well, gtk-vnc is in a wait-dep for iceape-dev which will never exist...
[19:49] <kees> slangasek: (and virt-manager needs modern gtk-vnc, etc etc)
[19:49] <slangasek> kees: if we still have a mozilla-dev, then iceape-dev is that; otherwise, it's obsolete and the build-dep needs to be fixed to point at something more useful
[19:49] <kees> slangasek: right, I was looking for "more useful" ;)  I think it might be xulrunner-1.9-dev
[19:50] <slangasek> mayyybe
[19:50] <slangasek> there is a mozilla-dev package, fwiw
[19:50] <slangasek> which is the cognate
[19:53] <kees> asac: can you poke at this (gtk-vnc needing iceap-dev) when you're back?  it seems something should be providing a meta-package or something, maybe?  mozilla deps are a mystery to me.  :)
[19:53] <slangasek> kees: the mozilla ice* rename is a divergence between Debian and Ubuntu
[19:54] <slangasek> and xulrunner-1.9-dev is by no means guaranteed to be compatible with mozilla-dev
[19:54] <kees> slangasek: but mozilla-dev is in universe and virt-manager (and gtk-vnv) have been in main, so something got wonky.
[19:55] <slangasek> sure. is this in intrepid?
[19:55] <wasabi> general dpkg question: trying to get a trigger that runs ONCE at the end of an install set. I have a trigger now, but it runs like, 4 times, in between some packages that invoke it. It is being triggered though, just can't figure out why so often.
[19:58]  * jdstrand wonders why gtk-vnc needs iceape-dev/mozilla-dev at all
[19:58] <jdstrand> 0.3.4 didn't
[19:58] <jdstrand> ah-- mozilla plugin maybe
[19:59] <jdstrand> gtk-vnc (0.3.4-2) experimental; urgency=low
[19:59] <asac> kees: yes, i think seamonkey-dev should be used (but needs to b fixed first)
[19:59] <jdstrand>   * enable the browser plugin
[20:00] <asac> if its not a xpcom plugin, we can use xulrunne-1.9-dev too
[20:00] <slangasek> seamonkey-dev is also in universe
[20:00] <jdstrand> kees: just diable the plugin like we did in 0.3.4-0*
[20:00] <asac> right, but it needs the sdk :)
[20:00] <jdstrand> kees: then it can stay in main
[20:00] <kees> jdstrand: hm, bad merge?
[20:00] <jdstrand> *shrug*
[20:01] <asac> is gtk-vnc in main?
[20:01] <kees> yeah
[20:01] <asac> oh. ok then it should go for xulrunner-1.9-dev i guess
[20:01] <jdstrand> DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS += --with-python --with-gtkglext --with-examples --enable-plugin=yes
[20:02] <jdstrand> change that to 'no' and we should be ok, assuming xulrunner doesn't work for us
[20:02] <asac> it should work
[20:02] <kees> xulrunner-1.9 doesn't seem to work.
[20:02] <kees> checking for MOZILLA_PLUGIN... configure: error: Package requirements (iceape-plugin >= 1.0) were not met:
[20:02] <asac> kees: can you look in configure.* and tell me which pkg-config it uses?
[20:02] <kees> No package 'iceape-plugin' found
[20:03] <asac> kees: yeah. use libxul
[20:03] <asac> or libxul-unstable
[20:03] <kees> har har, there is a patch "xulrunner-not-mozilla.diff"
[20:03] <asac> what does that contain?
[20:03] <kees> but it switches from mozilla-plugin to iceape-plugin
[20:03] <slangasek> heh
[20:03] <kees> -MOZILLA_PLUGIN_REQUIRED=1.8
[20:03] <kees> +MOZILLA_PLUGIN_REQUIRED=1.0
[20:03] <kees> -                          mozilla-plugin >= $MOZILLA_PLUGIN_REQUIRED)
[20:03] <kees> +                          iceape-plugin >= $MOZILLA_PLUGIN_REQUIRED)
[20:04] <asac> kees: that should work too
[20:04] <asac> just drop that patch
[20:04] <kees> asac: is there some Debian-proof way to adjust xulrunner-1.9 to provide iceape-dev?
[20:04] <kees> (i.e. so we don't have to carry a patch)
[20:05] <asac> kees: in this case we have to drop a patch :) ... not carry it
[20:05] <kees> what pkg provides mozilla-plugin?
[20:05] <asac> kees: xulrunner-1.9-dev
[20:05] <kees> rockin'
[20:05] <asac>  dpkg -L xulrunner-1.9-dev | grep plugin.pc
[20:05] <asac> /usr/lib/pkgconfig/mozilla-plugin.pc
[20:05] <asac> kees: debian diverges from upstream here
[20:06] <asac> :-P
[20:06] <asac> kees: for universe we can provide iceape-dev as a virtual package in seamonkey
 \o/ </sarcastic>
[20:06] <asac> kees: main redepends should be fixed
[20:06] <kees> fixing...
[20:07] <jdstrand> kees: is that the same as /o\
[20:07] <kees> jdstrand: head-holding.  :)
[20:07] <jdstrand> kees: exactly
[20:08] <asac> slangasek: just saw that we have aa action item to talk about firefox 3 final on CD. I assume thats done now, right?
[20:08] <slangasek> asac: yes, that's done
[20:08] <asac> good
[20:08] <gandi> asac: piiing :)
[20:09] <asac> gandi: ?
[20:10] <gandi> asac: I'm the Mozilla guy from UDS, maybe you remember me ;)
[20:10] <gandi> asac: I need your help
[20:10] <asac> gandi: consider #ubuntu-mozillateam :)
[20:10] <asac> gandi: but hi!
[20:10] <gandi> oh, that's the channel name!
[20:11]  * nxvl HUGS asac for ff3!
[20:11]  * asac hugs nxvl 
[20:13] <kees> \o/ gtk-vnc compiled
[20:19] <mvo> ScottK: re bug #231098 - there is currently no sun-java6-plugin for amd64, should I add sun-java6-jre regardless ?
[20:19] <mvo> I don't mind either way
[20:19] <jpeirce> really, /j #ubuntu-motu
[20:19] <jpeirce> err, oops, sorry :)
[20:24] <pwnguin> did imbrandon leave ubuntu?
[20:26] <jpds> pwnguin: no, I think he's busy with other things.
[20:26] <pwnguin> I haven't heard or seen him in ages
[20:27] <pwnguin> jpds: technically I think going six months of "busy with other things" without mentioning it is a CoC violation
[20:27] <jpds> pwnguin: "life happens"
[20:28] <pwnguin> but doing much about it is akin to giving out the death penalty for attempted suicide
[20:34] <pwnguin> jpds: "Step down considerately" is one of the CoC line items, and there are bugs assigned to him =/
[20:38] <bryce> kees: bingo
[20:39] <bryce> kees, 'merge_changelog' now lives :-)
[20:42] <kees> bryce: ah-ha! excellent.
[20:46] <bryce> http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/scripts/merge_changelog
[20:56] <james_w> bryce: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/vcs-pkg-discuss/2008-January/000101.html
[20:56] <mterry> Is there a convenient way to have something load on user-login just once?  I know I can drop stuff into ~/.config/autostart/, but if I want it to be one-time-only, do I need a wrapper app to handle the deleting of the .desktop autostart file?
[20:57] <bryce> mterry: you mean like .xsession ?
[20:58] <mterry> bryce: Sure, but i don't want to muck about with the user's .xsession, would be cleaner just to drop something into the autostart dir.    Plus, I'd still have one-time-only problem
[21:01] <mterry> Hmm, maybe drop in a .desktop with "Exec=foo; rm ~this~"
[21:01]  * mterry grins evilly
[21:04] <bryce> james_w: hmm interesting, that script gives different results
[21:05] <bryce> james_w: it looks like that script gets messed up if there are epoch numbers
[21:05] <james_w> bryce: I doubt that script has had as much testing as yours.
[21:05] <bryce> e.g. it sorts all the 2: items at the top of the changelog, and 1: at the bottom, putting everything out of order
[21:06] <bryce> james_w: although it's much more concise
[21:06] <james_w> yup.
[21:06] <james_w> is that location a permanent home for yours?
[21:08] <bryce> yeah more or less
[21:10] <james_w> bryce: do you mind if I send it there to let them know about it?
[21:11] <bryce> james_w: sure; I'll drop a post to ubuntu-devel@
[21:11] <james_w> bryce: great, thanks.
[21:15] <james_w> is there a wiki page anywhere describing pkgstriptranslations?
[21:17] <seb128_> james_w: why do you want a wiki page, the package description is clear no?
[21:17] <cjwatson> nxvl: don't remove gnulib from packages
[21:17] <james_w> seb128_: as reference for forwarding something to Debian.
[21:18] <seb128_> james_w: pkgstriptranslations should require no packaging change
[21:18] <cjwatson> nxvl: gnulib is designed to be copied into source packages, not to be used as a shared library. IMO it's one of the few cases where this is actually a sensible thing to do, because it comes with a script to automatically update itself - think of it as the other half of autoconf, rather than as a normal library
[21:18] <seb128_> james_w: what change is that exactly?
[21:18] <james_w> seb128_: NO_PKG_MANGLE for a nested build.
[21:18] <cjwatson> nxvl: you will likely hose the package in subtle ways with little hope of recovery if you attempt to remove gnulib from it
[21:20] <seb128_> james_w: ah ok, I was just curious but don't know about a wiki page on the subject, maybe pitti does though since he worked on those changes
[21:20] <james_w> seb128_: I took the description, it should be enough, thanks.
[21:20] <seb128_> you are welcome
[21:20] <james_w> though a wiki page on the whole thing might be useful for me, as I don't really understand it.
[21:21] <cjwatson> nxvl: (speaking partly as an upstream with some experience of using gnulib, and partly as a contributor to gnulib)
[21:22] <seb128_> james_w: the language packs? there is not a lot to understand, the translations are not installed in the normal binaries but in language packs using the rosetta translations
[21:24] <james_w> that's what I'd understood. Am I right that it's good because it means translations can be improved via rosetta, and you can uninstall languages you don't care about?
[21:24] <james_w> or is it mainly the former reason?
[21:24] <cjwatson> it lets us do post-release updates of translations in a straightforward way with minimal risk
[21:24] <cjwatson> that's really the main motivation
[21:24] <james_w> ah, ok, thanks.
[21:24] <cjwatson> it has some arguable space benefits although it's not clear how much they really hold
[21:25] <ScottK> mvo: I think it would be better to add it.
[21:25] <mvo> ScottK: thanks, that is fine with me. I will add it and upload the new version.
[21:25] <ScottK> mvo: Great.
[22:35] <PurplePotato> Hello
[22:36] <PurplePotato> I was going to say - anyone here know the DadaDodo program for ubuntu?
[22:37] <PurplePotato> It uses an imput text file to create Markov Chains of words to display. Its really weird and often creepily insightful
[22:37] <PurplePotato> I put in a chineese aspiring movie script, and came out with lots of fun things
[22:38] <PurplePotato> Began to use the king of which can be their power of this and
[22:38] <PurplePotato> sorcery are ready to show his mother throws the old tools which
[22:38] <PurplePotato> initiates thunder and to do with writes a garbage can; be their
[22:38] <PurplePotato> friends, and Glassy and sending KOBY flies fall into one lazy afternoon when you invisible.
[22:38] <PurplePotato> ill shut up now
[22:38] <laga> hmm, interesting
[22:39] <PurplePotato> SERIOUSLY THOUGH... open up synaptec and download DadaDodo, its really fun
[22:39] <PurplePotato> ime already entertained for days!
[22:40] <PurplePotato>   The DOKEBYS decided to the Dokeby comes KOBY is a lucky kid who just an old broom; Dokeby and the old  omnipotent and everybody at school, there is the invisible hat.
[22:41] <slangasek> PurplePotato: sorry, what does this have to do with Ubuntu development?
[22:41] <PurplePotato> this is all mathmatically generated too!
[22:41] <PurplePotato> idk
[22:41] <PurplePotato> i leave
[22:41] <PurplePotato> actually i had a question
[22:43] <PurplePotato> how would i write a script to add on "conditions" to a shortcut?
[22:43] <PurplePotato> like in windows, for a video game you might have it link to the file, then have it imput the condition "+connect 8.2.120.174"
[22:44] <andrew_sayers> You mean command-line arguments?
[22:44] <PurplePotato> yes, thats it
[22:44] <PurplePotato> its like for a Q3 engine game, or other things
[22:45] <andrew_sayers> Write a file called something like "my-command.sh", where the first line is "#!/bin/sh", and the second line is the complete command line, with arguments.
[22:45] <andrew_sayers> Then set that file to be executable.
[22:45] <PurplePotato> ok, will do! thx
[22:45] <andrew_sayers> np, good luck.
[22:45] <PurplePotato> *sigs* i suck at this.... thx!
[22:48] <cody-somerville> slangasek, if you're around, can you wave in #ubuntu-meeting
[22:48] <slangasek> ... wave?
[22:53] <YokoZar> So I guess update-manager -d won't work until Alpha 1 is out, right?
[22:54] <cjwatson> alphas are just CD image releases - they don't have a lot of bearing on the upgrader
[22:55] <cjwatson> trimmed a few old items so that it'll all fit