/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/06/20/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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ccmdholbach: ping08:09
ccmdholbach: there is a tiny problem with the announcement of the chat for today08:10
ccmdholbach: while Jorge Castro writes in his blog that it's in #ubuntu-classroom, the official announcement states #ubuntu-meeting08:11
ccmah08:11
ccmjcastro: ping08:11
dholbachURGH08:11
dholbachI'll tell him to change it and follow up on his blog post08:12
ccmdholbach: fine08:12
dholbachjust in case, I'll be in #ubuntu-classroom too08:12
ccmright08:12
ccmme too08:12
dholbachccm: thanks for letting me know08:14
ccmjust selfish08:15
ccm:)08:15
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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Jun 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 21 Jun 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 21 Jun 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 22 Jun 18:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mozilla Team | 24 Jun 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 24 Jun 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council
riot_leccm: ping15:06
ccmriot_le: yes15:36
riot_ledo you got my mail?15:37
riot_lei didnt get a reply and dont know if our smtp working properly15:37
ccmriot_le: uhm, can you give me the subject?15:48
riot_lethe Ubuntu-BBQ in Leipzig next Week15:53
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dholbach@schedule berlin16:30
ubottudholbach: Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 20 Jun 18:00: How to run a Bug Jam | 21 Jun 19:00: Xubuntu Community | 21 Jun 21:00: How to run a Bug Jam | 22 Jun 20:00: Ubuntu Mozilla Team | 24 Jun 17:00:  Server Team | 24 Jun 20:00: LoCo Council16:30
xander21cHello16:40
pedro_hey hey xander21c!16:41
xander21chow you doing?16:43
pedro_xander21c: I'm pretty good, thanks. How's everything going in Peru?16:43
xander21cgood, I'm currenly fighting with a printer16:46
pedro_hehe good luck16:48
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: How to run a Bug Jam | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Jun 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 21 Jun 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 22 Jun 18:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mozilla Team | 24 Jun 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 24 Jun 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council
dholbachhello everybody!16:59
dholbachWho's here and wants to know more about Bug Jams?17:00
* jacob raises hand17:00
jacobhallo17:00
ccma hello from me too17:00
pedro_hi hi17:00
dholbachhey jacob :)17:00
JonReaganme me me!17:00
bernazhi17:00
ccmthat looks nice17:00
dholbachlet's do a quick round of introductions and see where we're all from :)17:00
dholbachI'm Daniel Holbach, member of the Berlin, Germany team :)17:01
jacobJacob Peddicord of the Ohio USA team17:01
ccmI am Caspar Clemens Mierau, also member of the Berlin, Germany and busy with organising community stuff directly here in Berlin17:01
JonReaganI'm Jon Reagan from the Georgia LoCo Team (US)17:01
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dholbachlooking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam/ there should be some folks from Chile, Peru, Nicaragua, Ecuador, Chigao and Columbia who are already planning bug jams17:02
pedro_hey I'm Pedro Villavicencio from Chile ;-)17:03
dholbachbut mayybe they're going to be at tomorrow's session17:03
dholbachso are you all busy with planning already?17:03
ccmare had even a first try?17:03
dholbachI'd like to keep this as an open discussion so whenever you have clever ideas or questions, just speak up :)17:03
JonReagancompletely new to this... ;)17:04
jacobright now we've only got out to spreading the word, nothing planned yet17:04
dholbachjcastro's Loco had a Bug Jam already and ccm and I organised one in Berlin17:04
dholbachjacob: great - how did you let people know about it?17:04
jacobdholbach: team mailing list - though i'm not sure who all received it, LP doesn't show subscriber list17:05
dholbachah right17:05
jacobbut i've seen talk of it in our channel as well17:05
dholbachI mailed the Berlin team for the Global Bug Jam too to get an idea what kind of packages people are interested in17:05
dholbachexcellent17:05
ccmjacob: already found a place for it?17:05
jacobccm: nope17:05
techno_freakdholbach, the Indian team is planning to have the bug jam mainly in its irc channel, while people from the same city might try to group together and work17:06
dholbachtechno_freak: great - do you have contacts in the various cities of India who you could poke?17:06
jacobccm: we're right at the beginning stages. we'll probably decide on a place in the coming weeks17:06
ccmwell, sitting together in real, if possible, has of course some nice advantages17:06
dholbachccm: absolutely17:06
dholbachmaybe ccm and I should talk a bit about what we did in Berlin in case people are interested?17:07
techno_freakdholbach, yes, we have been getting some members to offer space, food and internet at main cities, hope more can chip in17:07
ccmon the one hand you can show things, on the other hand, it is really fun, sitting together17:07
dholbachtechno_freak: that sounds awesome - try to get them to add the state of their planning on to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam - that way we could ping people and see how their planning is coming on?17:07
jacobsomething i'd like to throw out there - it's difficult to get a bunch of Ohioans in one place, and while I'm sure we'll have a city-based jam, maybe ustream is an alternative option for those who can't make the location?17:07
dholbachjacob: by upstream you mean "hanging out together on IRC"?17:08
techno_freakdholbach, sure will add the Indian team there :) as of now am coordinating it for the team17:08
dholbachtechno_freak: thanks for that17:08
jacobdholbach: no no, ustream.tv, a video streaming service :)17:08
techno_freakdholbach, we also plan to have a few session before that so people have a clue what to do :)17:08
ccmjacob: well video is neat replacement, of course (when its working :)17:08
dholbachjacob: ahhh! how would that work? it sounds interesting17:09
dholbachtechno_freak: that's a topic we should definitely talk about while we're all here17:09
techno_freak:)17:09
ccmmaybe we can talk about some experiences from our bug jam17:10
jacobdholbach: since ustream allows you to mix feeds together into one stream, there could even be multiple people in one video. ustream also sets up a video chat via IRC that lets users communicate right on the video feed17:10
ccmfor the "advertisement": it's not easy motivating a lot of people for a bug jam, as it is "unsexy" at a first look, so you have to make it attractive to the bunch17:10
techno_freakccm, more importantly things to avoid/be careful/have-an-eye-on during bug jam will also help :)17:11
dholbachjacob: that sounds awesome - we should add that information to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RunningBugJam17:11
ccmthat is: by the event itself (location) or by trying to tell people, that bug jamming can help themselves, too17:11
jacobdholbach: cool - i'll add it on there afterwards17:11
ccmso bug jamming a package you use often, for instance is just in your own interest17:12
ccmpeople really understand this point17:12
dholbachso what ccm and I did in Berlin was book a location that we had events in before - we were in a workshop room and had around 10-15 people showing up (Germany played soccer in the European championships that day :-))17:13
dholbachI did a short "presentation" about general bug triage info first17:13
ccmyes, it was close to a wonder, more than two people showed up17:13
ccm:)17:13
dholbachhehe17:13
dholbachI think it took around one hour to talk about what the "bug lifecycle" is, how bugs can be forwarded upstream, what a subscriber is, what an assignee is, etc17:14
ccmyeah, an important hour17:14
ccmas people need to understand the launchpad and bug concept17:14
dholbachuntil August we're going to fix up some of the documentation to make it even more obvious if people read the docs beforehand17:14
bdmurrayDoes the whole life cycle need to be covered?17:14
dholbachbdmurray: it was the "big picture" - what's needed to make a bug more useful, what information is needed etc17:15
ccmbdmurray: well at least the life cycle for triaging from my point of view17:15
dholbachjust to get an understanding what it means if a bug goes from unconfirmed to confirmed, etc17:15
* ccm nods at dholbach 17:15
dholbachalso it'd be nice if we could get some folks to translate the docs (but that'll be a separate announcement)17:15
techno_freakdholbach, do you have materials available to us, on the introduction talk?17:15
dholbachmaybe we could even have some presentation material17:15
bdmurrayRight, I was just thinking that not every single bug state needed to covered.17:15
ccmbdmurray: yes, you are right with this17:16
dholbachtechno_freak: right now I'd advise people to read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs17:16
techno_freakok17:16
ccmtechno_freak: well actually there is already a lot of great documentation on the official wiki17:16
dholbachbdmurray: it'd be nice to have some kind of selection on what is essential17:16
ccmI agree with dholbach, that translations are a big issue17:16
dholbachccm: I guess it just needs to be a bit condensed for a "at one glance" overview17:16
dholbach*nod*17:17
bdmurraydholbach: like an outline of topics for a into to triage class?17:17
ccmof course working on bugs has to be done in English at some point, but the introductions in "native" languages would be great17:17
dholbachbdmurray: exactly, maybe a fancy diagram or two to go with it :)17:17
ccmyes, images :)17:17
bdmurraydholbach: right :)17:17
dholbachof course that triggered a bunch of questions like "if you look at bugs <n+1>, what am I supposed to do with it?"17:18
dholbachif people are at the stage of looking at bugs themselves and thinking about how to solve them, the bug jam already was a success :)17:18
dholbachI'm sure that bdmurray and his #ubuntu-bugs cronies will cook up some list of easy targets (like 'new' bugs that need confirmation, etc.)17:19
dholbachjacob, techno_freak, JonReagan, bernaz: have you been involved in bug triage already?17:19
dholbach(and everybody else who's lurking in here and interested in getting a bug jam started)17:19
jacobi have, though not as actively as I have been17:20
techno_freakdholbach, i have been, whenever i found free time17:20
dholbachtechno_freak, jacob: if you have people on your team who have been dealing with bugs already, that's a great start - it's good to have somebody around locally who can answer questions17:20
dholbachI hope I didn't scare bernaz away17:21
ccmi noticed that one should even be prepared for questions like "why is it called 'bug triage'?"17:21
ccm:)17:21
techno_freakdholbach, we are trying to have one such resource in each place, at least as much as we can :)17:21
dholbachright... we got that one too17:21
dholbachit's going to ROCK, I just know it17:21
dholbachand it'd be awesome to get as many awesome stories, pictures, videos, ... as possible on to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam/Stories17:22
ccma nice warm up, is showing live bug examples and easy things like finding duplicates17:22
ccmand launchpad is full of duplicates17:22
dholbachdo you guys have any questions or things we should probably bear in mind?17:22
ccmdholbach: you wrote down some things to remember for the next bug jam17:23
ccmdholbach: do you remember them right now?17:23
dholbacha lot of the points were about fixing our docs, also about 5-a-day fixes17:24
dholbachone thing we could try is something like:17:24
dholbachgroup people locally in groups of four (or some other number) who work on the same bug list17:24
ccmyes, actually groups are quite powerful17:25
ccmas the people can chat about decisions they make17:25
dholbachI just imagine it would be much more fun if you get something like "oh yeah, I looked at that bug before and I saw a similar bug upstream, let me give you the link"17:25
dholbachexactly17:25
ccmdholbach: did you already spread the word about gobby?17:26
dholbachone "problem" we had in Berlin was that whenever somebody asked a question, everybody looked at me and stopped what they were doing and expected some kind of lecture17:26
ccmi don't know if everybody knows it17:26
dholbachit wasn't a big problem, just a bit disruptive to what the people were doing themselves17:26
dholbachjacob, techno_freak, JonReagan: do you know about gobby?17:26
* jacob loves gobby17:26
ccmyeah, that's why its good to start with an introduction, but just to start with it and then to split into groups17:27
techno_freakdholbach, yes, we use to work on our loco team wiki collaboratively :)17:27
ccmjacob: and gobby loves you, hehe17:27
dholbachgreat17:27
jacob:d17:27
dholbachwe used it to share links in the team and take notes17:27
jacob:D*17:27
dholbachthat worked out really well17:27
jacobit's a great editor once it is setup - the setup is the only strange part17:27
ccmyes, the room is till available17:27
ccm:)17:27
ccmeh still17:28
dholbachjacob: if you use gobby.ubuntu.com as a server it's pretty straightforward17:28
jacobdholbach: ooh, haven't tried that17:28
dholbach:)17:28
ccmdholbach: we should write that down, somewhere17:29
* dholbach took a note17:30
ccm:)17:30
ccmscrollkeeper dholbach17:30
dholbachwhat I'm interested in is: how do we get the word out to the city teams?17:30
tnseditorhi everyone17:31
dholbachI'm sure there are a lot of people on the xyz ubuntu forum who didn't hear about the Global Bug Jam yet who might be interested in running this in their city17:31
dholbachhi tnseditor17:31
dholbachtnseditor: insterested in running a Bug Jam?17:31
jacobhey tnseditor (i dragged him in here :P)17:31
tnseditor:-p17:31
dholbachROCK :)17:31
tnseditorjacob: next time you don't have to drag me, just give me a map.... dragging is too painful17:32
tnseditor:-p17:32
jacobheh17:32
dholbachso do you have any ideas how we could do that? we covered it on the fridge on planet and I think on some forums already17:32
tnseditorhi ropetin17:32
dholbach(also loco-contacts@lists.u.c and ubuntu-event-planners@lists.u.c)17:33
ropetinHullo17:33
dholbachhi ropetin: also interested in running a bug jam?17:33
jacobi'm sure we could get something stuck on the main forums (probably cafe) about it17:34
ccmdholbach: are we actually going for the guiness book this august? :)17:34
dholbachccm: we should definitely aim for it!17:34
ccmright17:34
ccmhere we go17:34
dholbachjacob: good idea17:35
dholbachhow busy are the ubuntu-<country code> mailing lists?17:36
techno_freaksome creative soul could create some banner and countdown for the global bug jam that we can add to our blogs ;)17:36
ccmdholbach: maybe we should create something like a blog footer with a counter and a "join" link17:36
dholbachwould it make sense to give people a heads-up there?17:36
dholbachtechno_freak: great one!17:36
jacobtechno_freak: is that a challenge? :o17:36
pedro_techno_freak: that would be awesome17:37
dholbachthat would totally rock17:37
dholbachccm: is there a lot of traffic on the ubuntu-de list? would it make sense to mail the list?17:38
ccmdholbach: let me check this17:38
ccmdholbach: 557 messages in may17:39
dholbachwoohoo17:39
ccmdholbach: so it's not a dessert17:39
ccmaeh17:39
ccmdesert?17:39
ccmnever mind17:39
ccm:)17:39
dholbachno, not really :)17:39
dholbachgreat17:39
tnseditorI need dessert :-p17:39
dholbachI'll send a mail to them out soon17:39
dholbachhehe17:39
ccmtnseditor: :)17:40
* ccm blushes17:40
dholbachtechno_freak: thanks for adding IndianTeam! :)17:40
ropetindholbach, I'm really interested in learning how I can help Ubuntu, and bug related stuff seems most likely for me17:40
dholbachtechno_freak added City "Any" :-)17:40
dholbachropetin: we were discussing it earlier and came to the conclusion that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs is the best bet right now17:40
dholbach... for people who wanted to get started with bug triage17:41
techno_freakdholbach, :) we would love to join in17:41
dholbachropetin: are you also interested in organising an event where people meet up locally and do bug triage together?17:41
ropetindholbach, yes, we in the Florida LoCo are kinda scattered, but we could get together for something worthwhile17:41
dholbachropetin: do you have contacts in the bigger cities that would be interested in hosting/organising something like this?17:42
ropetinOne question on triaging though, I've done a couple, but I'm worried I'll end up troubleshooting the problem17:42
dholbachif it's just not feasible at all, there's always IRC and #ubuntu-bugs17:42
ropetindholbach, Yes, we have people in Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Orlando and Jacksonville17:42
dholbachwe plan to have a huge presence there and especially try to tie in Upstream developers who can help with questions about specific packages17:42
dholbachropetin: that sounds awesome17:42
dholbachropetin: anything you (and your friends) can do to make a bug report more meaningful and better in any way is highly appreciated17:43
dholbachhaving fun together, making Ubuntu better and having a few beer/<orwhateverelse> afterwards is what it's all about :)17:43
ropetindholbach, so the question I have is should I add to the bug with 'trouble shooting' questions, or contact the submitter directly?17:43
ropetinAnd then only put bug related stuff in the bug?17:44
dholbachropetin: best to add it all to the bug report itself17:44
ropetinCool, ok, thanks, as long as people don't get mad at me for it :)17:44
dholbachthat way it's visible to everybody else who takes a look at the bug17:44
dholbachnot at all17:44
ccmdholbach: maybe you tell some things about integrating  5-a-day in a bug jam17:44
dholbachif you're uncertain we have our QA experts in #ubuntu-bugs who are happy to help out :)17:45
dholbachccm: very good point17:45
ropetinExcellent, I'll try my hand at triaging again then17:45
dholbachwho in her doesn't know about 5-a-day yet? :)17:45
ccm(try to beat the Berlin team, haha)17:45
dholbachso 5-a-day was the initiative to try to get as many people as possible to do at least 5 bugs a day17:45
dholbachand by doing we didn't necessarily mean "fix these bugs"17:46
dholbachbut work on them, try to improve them, confirm them, etc17:46
dholbachThen we have this little tool you can use to submit the bugs you worked on and they'll turn up at http://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/17:46
dholbachwho of you is a 5-a-day'er already?17:46
jacobi was on 5-a-day for a bit, but then left because of lack of available time. this summer I should have plenty of it though :D17:46
dholbachI know that ccm, pedro_ and bdmurray are :)17:47
* techno_freak rises his hand17:47
* dholbach hugs jacob17:47
dholbachgood work17:47
* dholbach hugs techno_freak too :)17:47
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day#Log has more info about how get the tool set up (and how to make it recognise what team you're in)17:47
dholbachalso we decided to use tags for the individual teams for the global bug jam17:47
snap-lI'm on 5 a day as well. (Craig from the Michigan Loco Team)17:47
* techno_freak is surprised to find him still at #33 in the stats :P17:47
ccmone should add, that dholbach himself wrote the 5-a-day script :)17:48
snap-lWould it be out of line to ask for a feature request for the 5-a-day applet? :)17:48
dholbachsnap-l: ROCK! :)17:48
dholbachMichigan is pretty active :)17:48
ccmsnap-l: i guess, dholbach likes to hear about it17:48
dholbachsnap-l: not at all17:49
jacob(wasn't there a 5-a-day plugin for gnome-do at some point?)17:49
dholbachjacob: REALLY? I didn't know17:49
snap-lSpecifically a larger icon that doesn't require using "The Force" to drag-and-drop over?17:49
dholbachsnap-l: good idea17:49
dholbachsnap-l: would you mind adding it to https://bugs.launchpad.net/five-a-day/+filebug so I don't forget?17:49
jacobdholbach: i vaguely remember something like it17:49
snap-lSure thing17:49
dholbachsnap-l: cheers17:50
ccmmy greatest experience from the last bug jam was, that i wrote my first patch in c for pidgin/otr and it even got accepted on the project upstream17:50
* dholbach hugs ccm17:50
ccmthat really makes yearning for more bugs bugs bugs17:51
dholbachof course the Bug Jam will be a lot about hugging too :)17:51
dholbachI'm really excited about lots and lots and lots of Bug Jams all around the world17:51
snap-ldholbach: Other than that little complaint, I love the 5-a-day script / applet17:52
* james_w hugs dholbach 17:52
* dholbach hugs james_w back17:52
ccmflashhug :)17:52
dholbachjames_w: are we going to have UK participateion in the Global Bug Jam?17:52
dholbach:)17:52
james_wdholbach: I hope so, but I'm still having trouble dreaming up a suitable venue.17:53
dholbachsnap-l: I'm glad you say that :)17:53
dholbachjames_w: Millbank Tower! :)17:53
james_wdholbach: I don't want to face the arctic conditions.17:54
dholbachI'm sure that popey will know a place :)17:54
popeyhmm?17:54
dholbachpopey: UK participation in the Global Bug Jam!17:54
popeywould millbank be available?17:54
dholbachpopey: no idea17:54
popeyor do you not have much space there?17:54
popeywould clan be the best person to ask?17:55
dholbacheverybody: do you or your loco have a list of venues you've had events at before?17:55
dholbachpopey: I guess so17:55
popeywill ask her17:55
james_wpopey: when I inquired I was told that weekends weren't great as they turn the heating off in the building, and so everyone would have to wear plenty of layers.17:55
dholbachpopey: ROCK :)17:55
james_winquired? enquired?17:56
tnseditortime for lunch... be back eventually17:56
dholbachtnseditor: enjoy it17:56
popeydholbach: will ask on the mailing list for venue suggestions17:56
techno_freakdholbach, we hope to find some universities, which supports local LUGs, to help :)17:56
dholbachexcellent!17:56
dholbachit seems like the venue question seems to be the most pressing one in terms of organisation17:56
jacoball of our events have traditionally been at Panera Bread locations, but I know someone available to get space at OSU, a columbus college17:57
ccmtechno_freak: yes, universities are quite open minded towards this and have the right equipment17:57
dholbachtechno_freak: that's a great idea and it'd be nice to keep a list of venues you've been to before and that worked out well - like on a wiki page just for future events17:57
techno_freakdholbach, ya we will, once we are sure of venues :)17:57
snap-lWe held our last one at a local library that offered space for free if you have a member with a membership17:57
snap-lThe only drawback was wifi access was restricted to get outside the library.17:58
dholbachsnap-l: did they have an old librarian who told you to be quiet all the time? :-)17:58
popeydholbach: remind me what date the jam is?17:58
snap-lNah, it was a conference room17:58
dholbachsnap-l: ah great17:58
popey8-10/aug?17:58
dholbachpopey: August 8-1017:58
dholbachyep17:58
dholbachthat sounds pretty awesome17:59
dholbachdo you have any questions or anything you're unsure about in terms of organisation and getting the word out?17:59
dholbachor anything else related to the "running the bug jam"?17:59
ccmguys: please take pictures of your sessions and blog them18:00
ccm:)18:00
dholbachyeah, definitely :)18:00
ccmthat reminds me of sending my pictures to dholbach18:00
dholbachccm: do it! :)18:00
dholbachOK... if that's everything, thanks everybody for being here and thanks for doing the GREAT work that you do18:01
* popey hugs dholbach 18:01
dholbachThere's going to be another session tomorrow at Saturday, June 21st 19:00 UTC with the dynamic duo of Greg Grossmeier and Jorge Castro18:01
* jacob applauds18:01
* dholbach hugs popey back18:02
* dholbach hugs y'all18:02
dholbachthanks ccm for taking the time :)18:02
dholbachand please let me know if you run into trouble or have further questions18:02
dholbachplease mail me18:02
ccmhugs from me, too18:03
* techno_freak hugs dholbach ccm bdmurray popey jacob snap-l james_w 18:03
dholbachyoohoo! :)18:03
* jacob hugs all back18:03
snap-lBug hug!18:04
affluxgah. /me is always late for meetings. :(18:08
tnseditorback18:10
* james_w buys afflux a watch18:11
popeydholbach: clan & ubuntu-uk mailed18:15
dholbachpopey: cheers18:15
dholbachthis is going to be GREAT18:15
dholbachjacob: thanks a lot for adding info about upstream.tv to the wiki18:18
jacobno prob dholbach18:19
james_wpopey: thanks18:19
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Jun 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 21 Jun 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 22 Jun 18:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mozilla Team | 24 Jun 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 24 Jun 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team
=== Toadstoo1 is now known as Toadstool

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