=== freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [08:09] dholbach: ping [08:10] dholbach: there is a tiny problem with the announcement of the chat for today [08:11] dholbach: while Jorge Castro writes in his blog that it's in #ubuntu-classroom, the official announcement states #ubuntu-meeting [08:11] ah [08:11] jcastro: ping [08:11] URGH [08:12] I'll tell him to change it and follow up on his blog post [08:12] dholbach: fine [08:12] just in case, I'll be in #ubuntu-classroom too [08:12] right [08:12] me too [08:14] ccm: thanks for letting me know [08:15] just selfish [08:15] :) === freeflying is now known as GNU === GNU is now known as Guest71839 === Guest71839 is now known as freeflying === asac_ is now known as asac === elkbuntu is now known as elky === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Jun 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 21 Jun 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 21 Jun 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 22 Jun 18:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mozilla Team | 24 Jun 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 24 Jun 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council [15:06] ccm: ping [15:36] riot_le: yes [15:37] do you got my mail? [15:37] i didnt get a reply and dont know if our smtp working properly [15:48] riot_le: uhm, can you give me the subject? [15:53] the Ubuntu-BBQ in Leipzig next Week === thekorn_ is now known as thekorn === mpih_ is now known as mpih [16:30] @schedule berlin [16:30] dholbach: Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 20 Jun 18:00: How to run a Bug Jam | 21 Jun 19:00: Xubuntu Community | 21 Jun 21:00: How to run a Bug Jam | 22 Jun 20:00: Ubuntu Mozilla Team | 24 Jun 17:00: Server Team | 24 Jun 20:00: LoCo Council [16:40] Hello [16:41] hey hey xander21c! [16:43] how you doing? [16:43] xander21c: I'm pretty good, thanks. How's everything going in Peru? [16:46] good, I'm currenly fighting with a printer [16:48] hehe good luck === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: How to run a Bug Jam | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Jun 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 21 Jun 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 22 Jun 18:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mozilla Team | 24 Jun 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 24 Jun 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council [16:59] hello everybody! [17:00] Who's here and wants to know more about Bug Jams? [17:00] * jacob raises hand [17:00] hallo [17:00] a hello from me too [17:00] hi hi [17:00] hey jacob :) [17:00] me me me! [17:00] hi [17:00] that looks nice [17:00] let's do a quick round of introductions and see where we're all from :) [17:01] I'm Daniel Holbach, member of the Berlin, Germany team :) [17:01] Jacob Peddicord of the Ohio USA team [17:01] I am Caspar Clemens Mierau, also member of the Berlin, Germany and busy with organising community stuff directly here in Berlin [17:01] I'm Jon Reagan from the Georgia LoCo Team (US) === Zic_ is now known as Zic [17:02] looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam/ there should be some folks from Chile, Peru, Nicaragua, Ecuador, Chigao and Columbia who are already planning bug jams [17:03] hey I'm Pedro Villavicencio from Chile ;-) [17:03] but mayybe they're going to be at tomorrow's session [17:03] so are you all busy with planning already? [17:03] are had even a first try? [17:03] I'd like to keep this as an open discussion so whenever you have clever ideas or questions, just speak up :) [17:04] completely new to this... ;) [17:04] right now we've only got out to spreading the word, nothing planned yet [17:04] jcastro's Loco had a Bug Jam already and ccm and I organised one in Berlin [17:04] jacob: great - how did you let people know about it? [17:05] dholbach: team mailing list - though i'm not sure who all received it, LP doesn't show subscriber list [17:05] ah right [17:05] but i've seen talk of it in our channel as well [17:05] I mailed the Berlin team for the Global Bug Jam too to get an idea what kind of packages people are interested in [17:05] excellent [17:05] jacob: already found a place for it? [17:05] ccm: nope [17:06] dholbach, the Indian team is planning to have the bug jam mainly in its irc channel, while people from the same city might try to group together and work [17:06] techno_freak: great - do you have contacts in the various cities of India who you could poke? [17:06] ccm: we're right at the beginning stages. we'll probably decide on a place in the coming weeks [17:06] well, sitting together in real, if possible, has of course some nice advantages [17:06] ccm: absolutely [17:07] maybe ccm and I should talk a bit about what we did in Berlin in case people are interested? [17:07] dholbach, yes, we have been getting some members to offer space, food and internet at main cities, hope more can chip in [17:07] on the one hand you can show things, on the other hand, it is really fun, sitting together [17:07] techno_freak: that sounds awesome - try to get them to add the state of their planning on to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam - that way we could ping people and see how their planning is coming on? [17:07] something i'd like to throw out there - it's difficult to get a bunch of Ohioans in one place, and while I'm sure we'll have a city-based jam, maybe ustream is an alternative option for those who can't make the location? [17:08] jacob: by upstream you mean "hanging out together on IRC"? [17:08] dholbach, sure will add the Indian team there :) as of now am coordinating it for the team [17:08] techno_freak: thanks for that [17:08] dholbach: no no, ustream.tv, a video streaming service :) [17:08] dholbach, we also plan to have a few session before that so people have a clue what to do :) [17:08] jacob: well video is neat replacement, of course (when its working :) [17:09] jacob: ahhh! how would that work? it sounds interesting [17:09] techno_freak: that's a topic we should definitely talk about while we're all here [17:09] :) [17:10] maybe we can talk about some experiences from our bug jam [17:10] dholbach: since ustream allows you to mix feeds together into one stream, there could even be multiple people in one video. ustream also sets up a video chat via IRC that lets users communicate right on the video feed [17:10] for the "advertisement": it's not easy motivating a lot of people for a bug jam, as it is "unsexy" at a first look, so you have to make it attractive to the bunch [17:11] ccm, more importantly things to avoid/be careful/have-an-eye-on during bug jam will also help :) [17:11] jacob: that sounds awesome - we should add that information to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RunningBugJam [17:11] that is: by the event itself (location) or by trying to tell people, that bug jamming can help themselves, too [17:11] dholbach: cool - i'll add it on there afterwards [17:12] so bug jamming a package you use often, for instance is just in your own interest [17:12] people really understand this point [17:13] so what ccm and I did in Berlin was book a location that we had events in before - we were in a workshop room and had around 10-15 people showing up (Germany played soccer in the European championships that day :-)) [17:13] I did a short "presentation" about general bug triage info first [17:13] yes, it was close to a wonder, more than two people showed up [17:13] :) [17:13] hehe [17:14] I think it took around one hour to talk about what the "bug lifecycle" is, how bugs can be forwarded upstream, what a subscriber is, what an assignee is, etc [17:14] yeah, an important hour [17:14] as people need to understand the launchpad and bug concept [17:14] until August we're going to fix up some of the documentation to make it even more obvious if people read the docs beforehand [17:14] Does the whole life cycle need to be covered? [17:15] bdmurray: it was the "big picture" - what's needed to make a bug more useful, what information is needed etc [17:15] bdmurray: well at least the life cycle for triaging from my point of view [17:15] just to get an understanding what it means if a bug goes from unconfirmed to confirmed, etc [17:15] * ccm nods at dholbach [17:15] also it'd be nice if we could get some folks to translate the docs (but that'll be a separate announcement) [17:15] dholbach, do you have materials available to us, on the introduction talk? [17:15] maybe we could even have some presentation material [17:15] Right, I was just thinking that not every single bug state needed to covered. [17:16] bdmurray: yes, you are right with this [17:16] techno_freak: right now I'd advise people to read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs [17:16] ok [17:16] techno_freak: well actually there is already a lot of great documentation on the official wiki [17:16] bdmurray: it'd be nice to have some kind of selection on what is essential [17:16] I agree with dholbach, that translations are a big issue [17:16] ccm: I guess it just needs to be a bit condensed for a "at one glance" overview [17:17] *nod* [17:17] dholbach: like an outline of topics for a into to triage class? [17:17] of course working on bugs has to be done in English at some point, but the introductions in "native" languages would be great [17:17] bdmurray: exactly, maybe a fancy diagram or two to go with it :) [17:17] yes, images :) [17:17] dholbach: right :) [17:18] of course that triggered a bunch of questions like "if you look at bugs , what am I supposed to do with it?" [17:18] if people are at the stage of looking at bugs themselves and thinking about how to solve them, the bug jam already was a success :) [17:19] I'm sure that bdmurray and his #ubuntu-bugs cronies will cook up some list of easy targets (like 'new' bugs that need confirmation, etc.) [17:19] jacob, techno_freak, JonReagan, bernaz: have you been involved in bug triage already? [17:19] (and everybody else who's lurking in here and interested in getting a bug jam started) [17:20] i have, though not as actively as I have been [17:20] dholbach, i have been, whenever i found free time [17:20] techno_freak, jacob: if you have people on your team who have been dealing with bugs already, that's a great start - it's good to have somebody around locally who can answer questions [17:21] I hope I didn't scare bernaz away [17:21] i noticed that one should even be prepared for questions like "why is it called 'bug triage'?" [17:21] :) [17:21] dholbach, we are trying to have one such resource in each place, at least as much as we can :) [17:21] right... we got that one too [17:21] it's going to ROCK, I just know it [17:22] and it'd be awesome to get as many awesome stories, pictures, videos, ... as possible on to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam/Stories [17:22] a nice warm up, is showing live bug examples and easy things like finding duplicates [17:22] and launchpad is full of duplicates [17:22] do you guys have any questions or things we should probably bear in mind? [17:23] dholbach: you wrote down some things to remember for the next bug jam [17:23] dholbach: do you remember them right now? [17:24] a lot of the points were about fixing our docs, also about 5-a-day fixes [17:24] one thing we could try is something like: [17:24] group people locally in groups of four (or some other number) who work on the same bug list [17:25] yes, actually groups are quite powerful [17:25] as the people can chat about decisions they make [17:25] I just imagine it would be much more fun if you get something like "oh yeah, I looked at that bug before and I saw a similar bug upstream, let me give you the link" [17:25] exactly [17:26] dholbach: did you already spread the word about gobby? [17:26] one "problem" we had in Berlin was that whenever somebody asked a question, everybody looked at me and stopped what they were doing and expected some kind of lecture [17:26] i don't know if everybody knows it [17:26] it wasn't a big problem, just a bit disruptive to what the people were doing themselves [17:26] jacob, techno_freak, JonReagan: do you know about gobby? [17:26] * jacob loves gobby [17:27] yeah, that's why its good to start with an introduction, but just to start with it and then to split into groups [17:27] dholbach, yes, we use to work on our loco team wiki collaboratively :) [17:27] jacob: and gobby loves you, hehe [17:27] great [17:27] :d [17:27] we used it to share links in the team and take notes [17:27] :D* [17:27] that worked out really well [17:27] it's a great editor once it is setup - the setup is the only strange part [17:27] yes, the room is till available [17:27] :) [17:28] eh still [17:28] jacob: if you use gobby.ubuntu.com as a server it's pretty straightforward [17:28] dholbach: ooh, haven't tried that [17:28] :) [17:29] dholbach: we should write that down, somewhere [17:30] * dholbach took a note [17:30] :) [17:30] scrollkeeper dholbach [17:30] what I'm interested in is: how do we get the word out to the city teams? [17:31] hi everyone [17:31] I'm sure there are a lot of people on the xyz ubuntu forum who didn't hear about the Global Bug Jam yet who might be interested in running this in their city [17:31] hi tnseditor [17:31] tnseditor: insterested in running a Bug Jam? [17:31] hey tnseditor (i dragged him in here :P) [17:31] :-p [17:31] ROCK :) [17:32] jacob: next time you don't have to drag me, just give me a map.... dragging is too painful [17:32] :-p [17:32] heh [17:32] so do you have any ideas how we could do that? we covered it on the fridge on planet and I think on some forums already [17:32] hi ropetin [17:33] (also loco-contacts@lists.u.c and ubuntu-event-planners@lists.u.c) [17:33] Hullo [17:33] hi ropetin: also interested in running a bug jam? [17:34] i'm sure we could get something stuck on the main forums (probably cafe) about it [17:34] dholbach: are we actually going for the guiness book this august? :) [17:34] ccm: we should definitely aim for it! [17:34] right [17:34] here we go [17:35] jacob: good idea [17:36] how busy are the ubuntu- mailing lists? [17:36] some creative soul could create some banner and countdown for the global bug jam that we can add to our blogs ;) [17:36] dholbach: maybe we should create something like a blog footer with a counter and a "join" link [17:36] would it make sense to give people a heads-up there? [17:36] techno_freak: great one! [17:36] techno_freak: is that a challenge? :o [17:37] techno_freak: that would be awesome [17:37] that would totally rock [17:38] ccm: is there a lot of traffic on the ubuntu-de list? would it make sense to mail the list? [17:38] dholbach: let me check this [17:39] dholbach: 557 messages in may [17:39] woohoo [17:39] dholbach: so it's not a dessert [17:39] aeh [17:39] desert? [17:39] never mind [17:39] :) [17:39] no, not really :) [17:39] great [17:39] I need dessert :-p [17:39] I'll send a mail to them out soon [17:39] hehe [17:40] tnseditor: :) [17:40] * ccm blushes [17:40] techno_freak: thanks for adding IndianTeam! :) [17:40] dholbach, I'm really interested in learning how I can help Ubuntu, and bug related stuff seems most likely for me [17:40] techno_freak added City "Any" :-) [17:40] ropetin: we were discussing it earlier and came to the conclusion that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs is the best bet right now [17:41] ... for people who wanted to get started with bug triage [17:41] dholbach, :) we would love to join in [17:41] ropetin: are you also interested in organising an event where people meet up locally and do bug triage together? [17:41] dholbach, yes, we in the Florida LoCo are kinda scattered, but we could get together for something worthwhile [17:42] ropetin: do you have contacts in the bigger cities that would be interested in hosting/organising something like this? [17:42] One question on triaging though, I've done a couple, but I'm worried I'll end up troubleshooting the problem [17:42] if it's just not feasible at all, there's always IRC and #ubuntu-bugs [17:42] dholbach, Yes, we have people in Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Orlando and Jacksonville [17:42] we plan to have a huge presence there and especially try to tie in Upstream developers who can help with questions about specific packages [17:42] ropetin: that sounds awesome [17:43] ropetin: anything you (and your friends) can do to make a bug report more meaningful and better in any way is highly appreciated [17:43] having fun together, making Ubuntu better and having a few beer/ afterwards is what it's all about :) [17:43] dholbach, so the question I have is should I add to the bug with 'trouble shooting' questions, or contact the submitter directly? [17:44] And then only put bug related stuff in the bug? [17:44] ropetin: best to add it all to the bug report itself [17:44] Cool, ok, thanks, as long as people don't get mad at me for it :) [17:44] that way it's visible to everybody else who takes a look at the bug [17:44] not at all [17:44] dholbach: maybe you tell some things about integrating 5-a-day in a bug jam [17:45] if you're uncertain we have our QA experts in #ubuntu-bugs who are happy to help out :) [17:45] ccm: very good point [17:45] Excellent, I'll try my hand at triaging again then [17:45] who in her doesn't know about 5-a-day yet? :) [17:45] (try to beat the Berlin team, haha) [17:45] so 5-a-day was the initiative to try to get as many people as possible to do at least 5 bugs a day [17:46] and by doing we didn't necessarily mean "fix these bugs" [17:46] but work on them, try to improve them, confirm them, etc [17:46] Then we have this little tool you can use to submit the bugs you worked on and they'll turn up at http://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/ [17:46] who of you is a 5-a-day'er already? [17:46] i was on 5-a-day for a bit, but then left because of lack of available time. this summer I should have plenty of it though :D [17:47] I know that ccm, pedro_ and bdmurray are :) [17:47] * techno_freak rises his hand [17:47] * dholbach hugs jacob [17:47] good work [17:47] * dholbach hugs techno_freak too :) [17:47] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day#Log has more info about how get the tool set up (and how to make it recognise what team you're in) [17:47] also we decided to use tags for the individual teams for the global bug jam [17:47] I'm on 5 a day as well. (Craig from the Michigan Loco Team) [17:47] * techno_freak is surprised to find him still at #33 in the stats :P [17:48] one should add, that dholbach himself wrote the 5-a-day script :) [17:48] Would it be out of line to ask for a feature request for the 5-a-day applet? :) [17:48] snap-l: ROCK! :) [17:48] Michigan is pretty active :) [17:48] snap-l: i guess, dholbach likes to hear about it [17:49] snap-l: not at all [17:49] (wasn't there a 5-a-day plugin for gnome-do at some point?) [17:49] jacob: REALLY? I didn't know [17:49] Specifically a larger icon that doesn't require using "The Force" to drag-and-drop over? [17:49] snap-l: good idea [17:49] snap-l: would you mind adding it to https://bugs.launchpad.net/five-a-day/+filebug so I don't forget? [17:49] dholbach: i vaguely remember something like it [17:49] Sure thing [17:50] snap-l: cheers [17:50] my greatest experience from the last bug jam was, that i wrote my first patch in c for pidgin/otr and it even got accepted on the project upstream [17:50] * dholbach hugs ccm [17:51] that really makes yearning for more bugs bugs bugs [17:51] of course the Bug Jam will be a lot about hugging too :) [17:51] I'm really excited about lots and lots and lots of Bug Jams all around the world [17:52] dholbach: Other than that little complaint, I love the 5-a-day script / applet [17:52] * james_w hugs dholbach [17:52] * dholbach hugs james_w back [17:52] flashhug :) [17:52] james_w: are we going to have UK participateion in the Global Bug Jam? [17:52] :) [17:53] dholbach: I hope so, but I'm still having trouble dreaming up a suitable venue. [17:53] snap-l: I'm glad you say that :) [17:53] james_w: Millbank Tower! :) [17:54] dholbach: I don't want to face the arctic conditions. [17:54] I'm sure that popey will know a place :) [17:54] hmm? [17:54] popey: UK participation in the Global Bug Jam! [17:54] would millbank be available? [17:54] popey: no idea [17:54] or do you not have much space there? [17:55] would clan be the best person to ask? [17:55] everybody: do you or your loco have a list of venues you've had events at before? [17:55] popey: I guess so [17:55] will ask her [17:55] popey: when I inquired I was told that weekends weren't great as they turn the heating off in the building, and so everyone would have to wear plenty of layers. [17:55] popey: ROCK :) [17:56] inquired? enquired? [17:56] time for lunch... be back eventually [17:56] tnseditor: enjoy it [17:56] dholbach: will ask on the mailing list for venue suggestions [17:56] dholbach, we hope to find some universities, which supports local LUGs, to help :) [17:56] excellent! [17:56] it seems like the venue question seems to be the most pressing one in terms of organisation [17:57] all of our events have traditionally been at Panera Bread locations, but I know someone available to get space at OSU, a columbus college [17:57] techno_freak: yes, universities are quite open minded towards this and have the right equipment [17:57] techno_freak: that's a great idea and it'd be nice to keep a list of venues you've been to before and that worked out well - like on a wiki page just for future events [17:57] dholbach, ya we will, once we are sure of venues :) [17:57] We held our last one at a local library that offered space for free if you have a member with a membership [17:58] The only drawback was wifi access was restricted to get outside the library. [17:58] snap-l: did they have an old librarian who told you to be quiet all the time? :-) [17:58] dholbach: remind me what date the jam is? [17:58] Nah, it was a conference room [17:58] snap-l: ah great [17:58] 8-10/aug? [17:58] popey: August 8-10 [17:58] yep [17:59] that sounds pretty awesome [17:59] do you have any questions or anything you're unsure about in terms of organisation and getting the word out? [17:59] or anything else related to the "running the bug jam"? [18:00] guys: please take pictures of your sessions and blog them [18:00] :) [18:00] yeah, definitely :) [18:00] that reminds me of sending my pictures to dholbach [18:00] ccm: do it! :) [18:01] OK... if that's everything, thanks everybody for being here and thanks for doing the GREAT work that you do [18:01] * popey hugs dholbach [18:01] There's going to be another session tomorrow at Saturday, June 21st 19:00 UTC with the dynamic duo of Greg Grossmeier and Jorge Castro [18:01] * jacob applauds [18:02] * dholbach hugs popey back [18:02] * dholbach hugs y'all [18:02] thanks ccm for taking the time :) [18:02] and please let me know if you run into trouble or have further questions [18:02] please mail me [18:03] hugs from me, too [18:03] * techno_freak hugs dholbach ccm bdmurray popey jacob snap-l james_w [18:03] yoohoo! :) [18:03] * jacob hugs all back [18:04] Bug hug! [18:08] gah. /me is always late for meetings. :( [18:10] back [18:11] * james_w buys afflux a watch [18:15] dholbach: clan & ubuntu-uk mailed [18:15] popey: cheers [18:15] this is going to be GREAT [18:18] jacob: thanks a lot for adding info about upstream.tv to the wiki [18:19] no prob dholbach [18:19] popey: thanks === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Jun 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 21 Jun 19:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam | 22 Jun 18:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mozilla Team | 24 Jun 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 24 Jun 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team === Toadstoo1 is now known as Toadstool