/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/06/22/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jun 18:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mozilla Team | 23 Jun 12:00 UTC: Bugs for Hugs Day | 24 Jun 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 24 Jun 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 25 Jun 22:00 UTC: Platform Team
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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jun 18:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mozilla Team | 23 Jun 12:00 UTC: Bugs for Hugs Day | 24 Jun 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 24 Jun 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 24 Jun 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mozilla Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Jun 12:00 UTC: Bugs for Hugs Day | 24 Jun 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 24 Jun 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 24 Jun 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team
asachi! ^^^18:59
JenFragglehi18:59
Jazzvahey hey18:59
shirishhi all19:00
asachmm ... gnomefreak not here yet :/19:00
Nafallohi19:00
asacrzr: RainCT: ping :)19:01
Volanshi all19:01
ftahi19:02
ftahm, it's crowded in here.19:02
asacyeah :) ... arena19:02
JazzvaI thought only few of them will be here. heh19:03
asacok .... maybe lets get started.19:03
asacgnomefreak is not here, so lets push his topics back in case he appears late19:03
ftawhere is the agenda ?19:04
JazzvaDoes that mean I go first? Ok...19:04
Jazzvafta: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings19:04
asacagenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings19:04
Tallkenthe meeting is open right? I'm here just for the curiosity19:04
JazzvaTallken: Sure...19:04
asacthanks to Jazzva and gnomefreak that actually made this meeting become true ;)19:04
Tallken:)19:04
asacs/that/who/19:04
asacits been quite some time since the last meeting so ... here we go :)19:05
Jazzvasoren, first item is membership policy for the new team, mozilla-extensions-dev19:05
asacTallken: feel free to listen, contribute, cheer, whatever :)19:05
Tallkenok :)19:05
JazzvaUm... that's supposed to be "so", not "soren". autocomplete...19:05
asacJazzva: ok go ahead. maybe outline the options we have19:06
JazzvaI have few suggestions. First is to auto-accept new team members with some sort of trial period (1, 3 months, ...), during which they need to prove their skills with some sort of development for the team (packaging extensions, fixing current bugs in mozilla extensions, ...)19:06
JazzvaThe second would be to ask new members to show some skills before being accepted in the team.19:07
asacpersonally, i prefer the first (open) option but would like to hear what others think?19:08
JazzvaPersonally, I am more for the second option, since we probably will use mozilla-extensions-dev branches in development, according to extensions' LargeScaleDevelopment (am I right?).19:08
ftai prefer 2nd but it's less critical than for m-t19:08
JenFragglei think the first option sounds best19:08
asacespecially the current extension-dev members ;)19:09
* RainCT is here19:09
asacyes ... LargeScaleDevelopment is later on the agenda, but since it somehow interferes with this agenda point, let me explain what we plan to do19:09
Volansin the first option after the trial period is needed a meeting for confirmation of the members19:09
Volans?19:09
Nafallosecond option is lots easier to manage, I'd say. people can always branch and ask for merges.19:10
asacto better scale the extension package maintenance and help extension packagers we want to provide a few "automated" services19:10
asacfor instance: we will provide automatically tracked upstream branches19:10
asacand try to automagically upgrade the .ubuntu branches19:10
asacthe result of that auto upgrade will end up in a .staging branch which is supposed to reside in the ~mozilla-extension-dev team19:11
asacso the only thing that extension contacts need to do is reviewing those .staging branches and resolving any eventual conflicts19:11
asacso basically the only harm someone can do is breaking the .staging branches before they get released to the archive19:12
asacfor me that means that its an acceptable risk if it helps us to get more contributors by removing a barrier (e.g. entering the team)19:13
asacanyway. on the end both options are ok for me :)19:14
Nafalloasac: people can branch those branches anonymously (http) without any risk at all surely :-)19:14
Nafallothat also makes for needed reviews of the merges, since they have to ask for it :-)19:14
NafalloI lean towards option 2.19:14
JazzvaNafallo: Any m-e-d member can contribute to them, I suppose that's where the risk of breakage is... But what asac said sounds reasonable, too...19:14
JazzvaMaybe we can compromise. To try the first option for some period, and then if we don't get more contributors, then to fall back to the second option?19:16
ftaasac, if we auto accept (option 1), how do we get rid of people doing nothing ? (ie, those who just collect team memberships)19:16
asacNafallo: right. good point.19:16
asacfta: the idea was to have a trial-period19:16
asaclike 3 month ... then looking if there is activity19:16
ftaeven for opt1 ?19:16
asacfta: only for opt1, Jazzva ?19:16
asace.g. auto admission == trial19:16
Jazzvafta, asac: yes19:17
asace.g. merio-admission == no trial19:17
asacmerito :)19:17
VolansJazzva: for the risk you tell maybe setting a team policy (best practice) that a contact must push only branches of the extensions he is the contact can help^19:17
Jazzvaasac: Well, if we they contribute, I think they can be accepted to the team :)19:17
asaci think the question is if extension-dev members can sign off packages that then get automatically uploaded19:17
asacif there always is a review step by mozillateam members required, we can auto admit i guess19:17
JenFragglewould a mentoring option work?  Part of the trial would be working with someone who can monitor their contributions?  not sure how many people to expect to join19:18
asacJenFraggle: imo mentoring should be done in a non-dedicated fashion19:18
Jazzvaasac: Is that possible in LP?19:18
asacthe whole #ubuntu-mozillateam channel is aleays your mentor :)19:19
Jazzva(for review thingy...)19:19
NafalloI think we are walking a thin line here... automatically accept people for packages that potentially gets auto-uploaded? there is a reason we have policys for getting upload rights in the first place. a reviewer can always miss things in branches.19:19
asacJazzva: there is a feature where users can review/vote for patches19:19
asacwe could say that "two positive" votes of m-e-d members would trigger upload19:19
asacor one positive by m-t members19:19
asacfta: you already saw that feature in action, didnt you?19:19
JazzvaBut what if those two positive votes are from new, auto-approved m-e-d members?19:20
asace.g. sign off merges19:20
JazzvaThe "one positive m-t" sounds good...19:20
asacJazzva: right. thats why i now lean a bit more to option 2 :)19:20
rzrhi19:20
JazzvaHey, rzr...19:20
asaceven if we dont implement that right from the beginning, i would at least keep the option open19:20
asacto do it :)19:20
Nafallohow do other teams to this?19:21
JazzvaWell, here's one more: Let's try option 1 for 3 months, with one-positive vote from m-t and see if that goes well. If it doesn't, we can go to option 2...19:21
asacthe other option would be to not couple the "review-power" with team membership at all, but maintain a list of valid reviewers19:21
Nafallosurely there must be things like the desktop team that has contributors?19:21
RainCTm-t?19:21
JazzvaRainCT: ~mozillateam19:21
asacNafallo: they go over sponsorship unless you can upload to ubuntu on your own19:21
ftaasac, yes, the new voting system for branch merge requests19:21
RainCTah ok19:21
ftaasac, not sure it triggers an upload though19:22
asacfta: you tink its better to couple voting powers with team membership or by maintaining a manual list of reviewers?19:22
asacfta: sure it doesnt ... thats what we need to implement :)19:22
Nafallohmm. option 2 is basically sponsorship, but with branches rather than debdiffs...19:22
asac(welll at least a merge to the release branch)19:22
asacNafallo: right19:22
* Nafallo likes option 2 :-)19:23
JazzvaNafallo: Yes, for the beginning. Then we add that contributor to the team19:23
asacok ... so what are the requirements for joining if we have criterias?19:23
* rzr thinks branches is better thatn debdiff19:23
* asac assumes that we settle on option 219:23
JazzvaAnyone against option 2?19:23
rzr3, 2, 119:24
ftaasac, i'm not sure lp could restrict voting powers. I stand for option 219:24
JazzvaI suppose that we're for option 2...19:24
rzr0 ; opt 2 is sold for 1000$19:24
asacno objection. lets go for iut19:24
Jazzva:)19:24
asacACTION: someone to draft m-e-d team requirements19:24
asacfor admission :)19:24
JazzvaWe might want them to package an extension ;). That would be the best :).19:25
Jazzvaas a criteria19:25
asacok ... what are the requirements?19:25
asacno strict rules, but a vote during mozillateam meeting?19:25
asacJazzva: well. i guess that packaging an extension is a basic requirement for sure19:25
JazzvaHehe :)19:25
VolansPROPOSAL: make a branch in the personal LP page with a funcional extension and the debian folder?19:25
asacbut i doubt that packaging an extension just once and then going away is not good enough19:25
ftapackage an extension, or update an existing extension needing love19:26
Nafallowork with the reviewer and he would then be the best to tell when the individual is considered ready?19:26
Volansin this way mozillateam members can check the work19:26
Jazzvaasac: Sure... Maintaining it is also good :)19:26
rzr1 package + 1 bug fix would be show that he's confortable with the process19:27
JazzvaNafallo: I think it would be good if more people could say that one is ready...19:27
rzr+ n bug fix19:27
asaci really think updating extensions should get in the equation19:27
asacotherwise we will end up with zillions of branches, that nobody updates :)19:27
Nafalloasac: +119:28
JazzvaNafallo: That would go in accordance with "whole #ubuntu-mozillateam is your mentor". That way more people get to meet a prospective developer19:28
rzr+219:28
asacso maybe: at least 1. new extension, and 3 updates?19:28
NafalloJazzva: good point19:28
JenFragglehaving less extensions but updated ones is better than lots of unloved extensions19:28
Jazzvaasac: +1 on that... with "maintaining extension" requirement19:28
asacok.19:28
asachow about expiring anyway? e.g. if there is no activity for 6 month we should probably expire members too (with the option to join back whenever they want)19:29
ftaasac, maybe we should recommend newcomers to work in ~id/+junk/branchname instead of in the project tree, to avoid pollution.19:29
Jazzvaasac: Sounds good...19:29
VolansIMHO there will be two different kind of members: those who help packaging extensions just for help the packaging process and those who package and mantein their own extension (extension developer). You can require that the first kind of members when package an extension have also to maintan the same extension19:29
asacfta: good point19:29
asacfta: can all submissions for merging be done in +junk?19:29
ftaasac, no idea19:29
ftaworth a try19:30
shirishhi all, I hate to say this but the documentation lacks at many a places, could something be done about that?19:30
Jazzvaasac, fta: Well, it can be copied to other branch, if it can't be merged from +junk, right?19:30
ubuntu-laptopi  need a few before i can talk19:30
ftaJazzva, right19:30
asacVolans: shirish we have an agenda item about that later :)19:30
ubuntu-laptopmy connection is not working. only wireless is working it seems19:30
shirishI dunno if this is time or perhaps at the end of the meet, asac, fta ?19:30
Jazzvashirish: Doc? Wiki pages? That's also on agenda :)19:30
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shirishJazzva: yup19:31
shirish:)19:31
asacVolans: right. i think extension authors (as in upstream) that want to maintain their package can be added to the team after they finished their own package19:31
JazzvaHey, gnomefreak. Welcome :)19:31
ftashirish, add your idea in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings, we'll see19:31
asacgnomefreak: \o/19:31
gnomefreakhi Jazzva19:31
gnomefreakhi asac19:31
asacok .... lets sign off the procedure:19:31
gnomefreakim pissed and working on a conection atm19:31
asac1 package + 3 updates19:31
gnomefreakbrb19:32
asacafter that regular contributions of not defined amount ;)19:32
asacfor upstream extension authors we have an exception that they just need to have finished their own extension package19:32
asacis that high enough bar for joining m-e-d?19:32
asacany objectsions?19:33
JazzvaFine by me.19:33
Nafallosounds shiny :-)19:33
ftaasac, ok for "1 package + 3 updates", but coupled with resignation after 3 (6?) months of inactivity19:33
asac319:33
Volanssounds good19:33
asacfta: i think 6 month of inactivity is ok19:33
Jazzva3 updates of their packages, or any packages?19:33
asacJazzva: well ... doesnt really matter i'd say19:33
JazzvaCool :)19:33
fta6 months is a full cycle, may be too much19:33
asacfta: so you want to put more pressure on m-e-d members?19:34
asac:)19:34
Nafallofta: and if the extension they are interested doesn't get updated for the period?19:34
asacwe could align the review with the release time.19:34
ftai just want people to feel concerned19:34
JazzvaI think 6 would be better. That way people are not under pressure of working :)19:34
Nafallowould we need to tie this to a working extension for current firefox maybe? + track upstream19:34
asace.g. review 1 month before we release ... to give contributors an incentive to do their housekeeping :)19:34
JenFragglei say 6 rather than 319:34
asacfta: i'd say that 6 is ok if we dont really have dedicated maintainers ... e.g. everybody can work on any extension19:35
asacwith dedicated maintainers 6 would be too long19:35
asacok have we reached a consent?19:36
asacpointer: we have a bunch of other items on agenda :)19:36
JazzvaI'm ok with this :)19:36
ftai'm ok with 6 if there's nothing to do on the extension the user worked on. but if we detect new upstream versions, but no work from 3 months, i find that quite long..19:36
gnomefreakcan someone post results on the meeting agenda or email me the logs19:37
fta-from+after19:37
asacfta: right. i'd say we review before release and decide case-by-case ... with the 6 month rule-of-thumb19:37
Jazzvagnomefreak: I can do it...19:37
ftaasac, ok19:37
Nafalloasac: +119:37
gnomefreakJazzva: thanks19:37
asacanyone against having a rule-of-thumb of 6 month that can be changed by meeting decision?19:38
Jazzvagnomefreak: No problem. Are you gonna stay for your agenda items?19:38
asacgnomefreak: we are still on first item: "extension dev membership"19:38
asacok lets do it that way then for now19:38
asacnext item :)19:38
gnomefreaki doubt it i need to get a working pc other than this laptop19:38
gnomefreakasac: 6 & 3????19:39
Jazzvagnomefreak: If you can, we can do your agenda items now... or at the end of the meeting.19:39
asaci'd say since gnomefreak is now here we go directly to his items (which are the first on the agenda)19:39
JazzvaSure...19:39
asacTOPIC: Team Tags and Status changes19:39
ftawhich is "We need a set of tags to keep and others to remove or combine in other tags also i would like feedback on what wikis to update since most are old. Feedback on these wikis would be great or some ideas and i will save everything as notes for a to do list and go from there "19:40
gnomefreakok with tags i was thinking of ones we need to remove or add19:40
asaci think its agreed that the current bug procedures are too formal and we should come to something more simple19:40
gnomefreakcorrect19:40
JazzvaMT tags: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/Tags19:41
asacmy vision is: keep it really simple and let most of the bug work be done by the bugsquad and bugcontrol (QA) team19:41
JazzvaMT states: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/States19:41
gnomefreaki want bug triagers to use mt-confirm instead of marking confirmed19:41
gnomefreakor other tags19:41
gnomefreakim seeing alot of bugs being closed for no reason lately19:42
asacin preparation of this meeting - based on discussion we had with bdmurray - i did setup https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/TriagersHandbook19:42
ftaso far, we are really bad with mt-upstream and mt-postupstream :(19:42
asacright19:42
ftanot sure the QA team wants to do that19:43
asacfta: they want to help19:43
asac(with support of mozillateam)19:43
asacthe upstream procedure is a topic on its own19:43
asacbased on UDS discussion i drafted https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/UpstreamBugProceduresIntrepid19:43
gnomefreakWE should push to upstream IMHO since we know what needs to be dpone19:44
asacthe current topic is ment to fix the horrible situation for bug triage _before_ bugs actually get forwarded19:44
asacthe handbook above tries to support the upstream triage, by introducing a "standard format" of bug summaries/descriptions19:44
asac(look at requirements for confirmed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/TriagersHandbook)19:45
JazzvaWell, TriagersHandbook looks good to me. It's quite simple - when it's confirmed, notify upstream :)19:45
shirishshouldn't it be both bugs and patches in a way that is easier for upstream to work with19:45
asacshirish: patches are a rare case i guess19:45
asachow dont they fit in the triagers handbook?19:45
ftapatches need to be attached to bugs, so it's covered19:46
Jazzvashirish: We might not be able to produce patches if they're deep in the code. Maybe it would be better if upstream plays with it19:46
Jazzva(at least, that's my opinion :))19:46
asaceven if we have a patch that fixes something, a bug still needs to be of the proper form as upstream certainly wants a good description on what get actually fixed19:46
shirishtrue19:47
asac... so imo patches dont make the handbook unapplicable19:47
asacdo we want to add a hint about what to do with patches to that handbook?19:47
Jazzvaasac: It might be good19:48
asacok19:48
asacACTION: add how to upstream patches to the triagers handbook and how it fits in the general procedure :)19:49
ftaasac, what about when a user contributes a patch, then it's posted upstream but upstream wants changes. how will the initial user know ?19:49
shirishit might also fit in with ubuntu-marketing to let other people know of ubuntu's contribution to packages.19:49
asacfta: good question. i think one requirement is to CC the ubuntu@bugs.distro users on forwarded bugs upstrewam19:50
asacwe can tehn setup a mailing list that will get the traffic19:50
asacso if there are questions we can react; bug the initial submitter; or look for someone who can work in what upstream has asked for19:51
asacfta: is that good enough?19:51
ftayes19:51
JenFragglei've got to go guys, sorry19:51
asacJazzva: cu. thanks!19:51
JazzvaOk, JenFraggle... See you :)19:51
asacok. i think the topic "bug states" is well covered as we are already improving the wiki19:52
asacand the general direction to tap more bugsquad and QA members for general triage is also consent i guess19:52
Jazzvaanyone have something to add, before we move on to the next topic?19:52
shirishwait19:52
asaclets move ahead. if anyone gets more ideas we can also move it to mailing list19:53
asacshirish: ?19:53
shirishwhat about wikis that need to be updated19:53
shirishwasn't that part of the 1st topic as well.19:53
asacshirish: we are already working on new documents that finally will replace the current pages19:53
Jazzvashirish: It's coming later ;)... It's MozillaTeam Wiki item.19:53
shirishok, a link to sneak-peak ?19:53
asacis that what you are asking for?19:53
asacshirish: i posted them above :)19:54
Jazzvashirish: This was about bugs tags, states and triaging19:54
asachttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/TriagersHandbook19:54
shirishno no19:54
asachttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/UpstreamBugProceduresIntrepid19:54
shirishok, what I meant if there is some finished work I could see of a wiki docuement19:54
gnomefreaki need people to look for issues with them and let me know what needs to be worked out. we have too many wikis for me to go through and look on my own19:54
asacshirish: dont understand what you mean?19:54
asacok, arte we on next topic now?19:55
asacshirish: ?`19:55
gnomefreakasac: that needs to be updated with UDS results19:55
shirishasac: I meant how the new wiki is being structured or what things are being looked at19:55
asacis your question about "Team Tags and Status changes " or "MozillaTeam Wiki "19:55
asac?19:55
gnomefreakasac: mozilla wikis in general for topic 219:55
asacok ... i am fine to move to that topic19:55
gnomefreakread my post above19:55
shirish"MozillaTeam Wiki:19:55
asacThough next one would have been "Thunderbird Extension"19:55
shirishasac: i can wait19:56
gnomefreakasac: we can work out tags and status' more on ML or in #u-m-t19:56
asacok, lets push that back and go ahead with "MozillaTeam wiki"19:56
asacgnomefreak: right19:56
asacok19:56
asacTOPIC: "MozillaTeam wiki"19:56
asacRATIONALE: We need to clean up the wikis for the MozillaTeam, for example taking a wiki that has conversations posted should be changed to a complete wiki, this will help users understand it more. All MozillaTeam's and ExtensionTeams's wikis should have CategoryMozillaTeam, CategoryBugSquad at the bottom of wiki page19:56
gnomefreakasac: im not looking at agenda page19:56
asaci think nobody will disagree that we should add the Category everywhere19:57
asacanyone volunteers to do this work?19:57
gnomefreakasac: thats about the jist of it, also need old wikis that freddy and alex were working on need to be updated also davids wikis19:57
JazzvaIf it's not important atm, I can help in a week or two...19:57
gnomefreakasac: i will19:57
asace.g. every mozillateam page gets CategoryMozillaTeam and every MozillaTeam/Bugs/ page gets CategoryBugSquad as well?19:57
gnomefreakasac: i need to get things worked out before hacking the hell out of them though19:58
shirishcan help with that.19:58
gnomefreakasac: no19:58
gnomefreakwell maybe19:58
asacshirish: great.19:58
asacok so19:58
shirishthere is one thing more which bites me though19:58
asacACTION: properly categorize MozillaTeam wiki pages19:58
shirishmany of the pages don't follow a particular structure19:59
gnomefreakasac: you want to use cat.bugsquad and mozillateam  cats.?19:59
gnomefreakshirish: thats why i have been working on them19:59
shirishplease note this is not just with the mozillateam but with all.19:59
shirishgnomefreak: thanx19:59
gnomefreakshirish: we had 2 people doing wikis and they left19:59
asacgnomefreak: al pages that belong to mozillateam get MT cat ... the Bugs/ pages get bugsquad category on top of that19:59
* gnomefreak only concerned with our at this time19:59
gnomefreakasac: ok19:59
shirishit would be nice if we had a place for people to know what or how they are expected to write, some structure documentation is good.20:00
asacshirish: want to become the official wiki lead for the mozillateam?20:00
asac:)20:00
gnomefreakours need more work than bugsquad20:00
shirishasac: thanx for the offer, but would decline, of course would help with whatever little I know or can do.20:00
asacshirish: i ment: "take the lead on wiki cleanup" :)20:00
shirishgnomefreak: perhaps we can collaborate on this20:01
gnomefreakasac: i got the lead once i have a working connections the power outage burned up something20:01
asacbasically means: going through, looking if things still apply; if in doubt ask on ubuntu-mozillateam20:01
gnomefreakshirish: yes that is fine :)20:01
asacand remove outdated things20:01
asacok20:01
shirishasac: right, that's not an issue20:01
asacACTION: gnomefreak and shirish work together on initial MozilaTeam wiki cleanup :)20:01
gnomefreakbiggest wikis are membership, bugs, states, tags20:01
shirishasac: apart from that20:02
shirishif we could have just some idea for a newbie who wants to put stuff on the wiki what goes where, how and what20:02
gnomefreakasac: just need an outline of what tags you would like to keep. and what ones to dump so get with me on this once im on my desktop20:02
gnomefreakshirish: wiki in general orformat of ours?20:03
asacshirish: we can offer to help users to find the right place in #ubuntu-mozillateam or on mailing list20:03
shirishgnomefreak: ?20:03
asaci think its hard to write a proper documentation that covers enough cases to be really useful20:03
shirishright. Lemme explain what I mean20:03
gnomefreakshirish: if we could have just some idea for a newbie who  wants to put stuff on the wiki what goes where, how  and what20:03
shirishlots of wiki pages which are there are disconnected to the projects from where they came from or what's happening there.20:04
shirishgnomefreak: I meant ur answer "wiki in general orformat of ours?"20:04
asacshirish: thts why we want to add the categories20:04
asacshirish: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryMozillaTeam20:04
asacthose are all pages that claim themselves that they belong to mozillateam20:04
asacyou basically add that to the bottom of the page20:05
shirishasac: I know that20:05
asacah :)20:05
gnomefreakbe right back erin is having connection issues as well :(20:05
shirishwhat I meant was more precise let me take an example to explain what I mean20:05
shirishnow let's say w.u.c/wiki/Webkit20:05
shirishnow while Webkit gives a surmise of what it is, it doesn't give any link to www.webkit.org or any blogs or anything of the developer who's developing upstream20:06
Jazzvashirish: There's a link at the end of the page :)20:06
shirishnow while Webkit wiki page gives a surmise of what it is, it doesn't give any link to www.webkit.org or any blogs or anything of the developer who's developing upstream20:06
asacok20:06
asacshirish: i think such quality standards should be enforced outside the mozillateam20:07
asacwe can only come up with policies that are mozillateam specific20:07
shirishright but there could be many more so it makes for people interesting for the project.20:07
asace.g. if you make a firefox extension page, do this, that and whatever :)20:07
asacshirish: i think the right group to enforce and draft such general policies would be the Documentation Team20:07
Jazzvaasac: +1 on that20:07
shirishok cool20:08
asacshirish: could you look which pages of the MOzillaTeam might fall into a category that could benefit from such general procedures?20:08
shirishasac: not at the top of my mind, but yes for sure.20:09
asacgood20:09
asacok. i think thats it for wiki cleanup topic for now?20:09
asacgnomefreak: ?20:09
asacas it fits to this discussion, I'd suggest to move to "Extensions related wiki pages "20:10
asacTOPIC: Extensions related wiki pages20:10
ftahe said something about connection issues20:10
asacJazzva: ?20:10
JazzvaRight :)20:10
asacfta: ok. lets discuss this with him outside the meeting and followup on mailing list20:10
ftak20:11
asacJazzva: what do you suggest regarding extension pages?20:11
JazzvaI was thinking of setting up extensions' related wiki pages under MozillaTeam/Extensions/, so they're not mixed with the general MozillaTeam pages. For example. Current MozillaTeam/Firefox3Extensions/Packaging would be MozillaTeam/Extensions/Packaging, and MozillaTeam/Firefox3Extensions could be ... dunno, MozillaTeam/Extensions/List20:12
asacJazzva: so you want to remove "Firefox" from the context?20:12
gnomefreakwe should do that but in sense of a firefox one a tbird one ect... as main pages20:12
asace.g. remove it from wiki name20:12
asacgnomefreak: +20:13
JazzvaThat would also apply to the rest of the pages that are related to extensions' stuff. I don't think there will be many pages to go to the MozillaTeam/Extensions/, on the other hand20:13
gnomefreakthis way we dont have ff and tb messed in one page20:13
Jazzvaasac: gnomefreak's idea is good20:13
gnomefreakJazzva: just keep our heading and add to that20:13
asacso MozillaTeam/Extensions/Packaging (e.g. for general mozilla extension packaging)20:13
Nafalloehrm. so s/3//g ? :-)20:13
asacand MOzillaTeam/Extensions/Firefox/List (for firefox 3 extension list) ?20:14
gnomefreakleave MozillaTeam/firefox/extensions band so on20:14
Nafalloah20:14
JazzvaYep, something like that...20:14
gnomefreakasac: replace list with the autual pages20:14
asacgnomefreak: one page per extensions?20:14
gnomefreakactual20:14
asachmm20:14
Volan1and for other mozilla programs? (seamonley, ecc..)20:14
asaci like the table20:14
JazzvaThought, we need to know what to do with extensions which both work in FF and TB20:14
gnomefreakasac: no one page per firefox extensions20:14
asacVolan1: what kind of information would be on a Seamonkey page?20:15
ftadrop firefox, it's also valid for thunderbird, seamonkey, prism, flock, songbird, and who knows what20:15
gnomefreakno not all are for the same20:15
asacfta: for the Packaging page i concur20:15
JazzvaI'm with asac on this, there are not many info for an actual page, and it already fits in the table layout.20:15
asacbut also for the List page?20:15
Volan1asac: I mean for extension list... the extensions that work only for FFor for example for FF and Flock and SeaMonkey20:15
gnomefreakseamonkey extensions may not work with ff i have seena  few of these20:15
asacVolan1: ok. i think that info could be added to the table20:16
gnomefreaksongbird ones wont work with ff20:16
Volan1package instruction unified and separeted list can be a solution?20:16
gnomefreakso instead of bunching them on one page make separate pages20:16
asacok. so i think the initial suggestion by jazzva is the one that is best maintainable20:16
asace.g. drop firefox from the page name completely20:16
asacand have an attribute in the table that declares which applications are supported20:17
JazzvaMaybe we don't need special table for every program. Many extensions work in more than one program. So, it would be easier to track them, if we add a new "works with programs" column20:17
asace.g. a new colum20:17
gnomefreakyes and use ff if the page is a ff related page20:17
asacJazzva: ack. thats what i mean20:17
asacso MozillaTeam/Extensions == the grand unified table page20:17
asacand MOzillaTeam/Extensions/Packaging == packaging instructions20:17
JazzvaThat's another part of the item :)..20:18
gnomefreakmaybe instead of that why not use a separate heading20:18
asacgnomefreak: example?20:18
JazzvaShould we keep MT/Extensions as the homepage with pointers to the other sections, and leave the list apart from that, or to just add the list there?20:18
=== rzr is now known as rZr
asacJazzva: what other information would we have there?20:18
gnomefreakheading Thunderbird extensions under it add the same tables that are there20:18
asacJazzva: maybe link to packaging, largescalemaintenance, list20:19
gnomefreaklike we did with dont work header and such20:19
asacJazzva: ok, i think we have enough to move the list out of that page20:19
Jazzvaasac: That's good. Now that I think of it, only few pointers are needed :)20:19
asacJazzva: well. there might be more in future20:19
JazzvaRight...20:19
asacthere might be various variants, like backports procedure, SRU procedure20:20
asacand so on20:20
Jazzvasoren, we can go for MT/Ext/List...20:20
asacJazzva: yes20:20
Jazzvaautocomplete again, sorry...20:20
ftalol20:20
* Jazzva turns autocomplete off ...20:20
asacanyone voluteers to do the renaming of the extension pages20:21
Nafallofinally :-)20:21
asaclike discussed?20:21
Jazzvaasac: I'll take care of it...20:21
asacJazzva: maybe you should glue your finger to not hit "tab" whenver you start an IRC line :)20:21
Jazzvaasac: it autocompletes with "," after first word :)20:21
Volan1lol20:21
Nafalloautoautocompletion :-P20:22
JazzvaI don't know why I turned that on in the first place... stupid thing ... :sighs:20:22
asacACTION: jazzva to reorganize extension wiki pages :)20:22
JazzvaAnyway, anyone have something to add?20:22
asacif so, lets go for mailing list :)20:22
JazzvaOr can we move to the next topic :)...20:22
asacTOPIC: Thunderbird extensions20:23
Volan1Jazzva: use icons in the copatible program column ;)20:23
asaci think that topic is not really a topic as everybody concurs that we should have that20:23
gnomefreakare we getting them?20:23
JazzvaVolan1, good idea :)...20:23
asacwe already discussed that the information which applications are supported to into a column of the extensions table20:23
gnomefreakthis was talked about at UDS i thought20:23
=== Volan1 is now known as Volans
asacpersonally, I'd say we should not start to maintain tbird extensions manually (like we did for ffox3 extensions atm)20:23
shirishI have a query but don't know if this is time or the place for the same?20:24
gnomefreakasac: wait for tb3?20:24
asacbut wait till we have the intiial prototype of LargeScaleMaintainence in place20:24
asacgnomefreak: no. just wait for our support infrastructure to be available20:24
JazzvaI think it's just a little change to the default XPI.TEMPLATE to get TB extensions to work. If we want, we can setup XPI.TEMPLATE.TB, too...20:24
asacshirish: we will have "other business" at the end20:24
shirishok cool20:24
Nafalloububird? :-)20:24
asacJazzva: we can think about it :)20:24
JazzvaNafallo, lol :)20:24
asacJazzva: but i think we can adapt the documentation as required, e.g. once someone starts a tbird extension20:25
gnomefreakasac: that would than make tbird ext. not to share a page with others since we are gonna have 2 different proceedure pages, a how to build20:25
Jazzvaasac, imagezoom is a TB extension too, and I'm maintaining it ;)20:25
asacgnomefreak: i dont think that the procedures are different enough to justify a separate page20:25
ftai agree20:25
asacyeah. so imagezoom already supports thunderbird20:26
gnomefreakin other words keep build instrucions/help pages separate if they are not the same20:26
asacJazzva: but you already know how to do it :) ... so you probably dont rely on the docs ;)20:26
Jazzva(that is, if I included that patch... I think I did, if not I have to :))20:26
gnomefreakas in it uses a separate XPI template20:26
asacgnomefreak: if they are different enough20:26
Jazzva(nope, it's gonna be sorted in next upload)20:26
gnomefreakick patching extesions?20:26
asacgnomefreak: in our case we can better add a few example lines in the template rules:20:26
gnomefreakasac: true20:27
asacok. so the only action i see is to improve the XPI.TEMPLATE to also cover thunderbird20:27
asacis that right?20:27
asacand once there is demand add a section about thunderbird to the Packaging page20:27
JazzvaYep. And document that on Packaging wiki page20:27
gnomefreaksince they dont use a patch system at all and are relativly nothing to hem why patch it instead add fixes to upstream builds and make a diff for upstream to add20:28
asacok, i volunteer to do that :)20:28
Nafallono ububird? :-(20:28
asacACTION: asac to add thunderbird examples to XPI.TEMPLATE and document that on Packaging page :)20:28
asacNafallo: thats not on the agenda (yet) :)20:28
asacok lets see20:28
Nafallohehe :-)20:28
asacanything else to add for thunderbird extensions?20:28
Volanssorry for my ignorance but now an extension compatible both with FF and TB necessite 2 different source packages?20:29
asacVolans: no. thats not always true20:29
gnomefreakNafallo: good idea as long as its not added to suggestions since apt now installs suggestions20:29
asacVolans: there are extensions like imagezoom that work in tbird + ffox20:29
asacthe intersection of thunderbird vs. firefox extensions should be quite small though ... more probably exist for seamonkey vs. firefox20:30
ftaadblock+ works almost everywhere20:30
* Nafallo stabs apt20:30
JazzvaVolans, and it will depend on firefox | firefox-3.0 | firefox-2 | thunderbird... that way dependencies are sorted out. If user has TB, it will install20:30
gnomefreakasac:  as i understand there are char. limits that is liked in packaging ext. we should really raise them20:30
* shirish loved apt20:30
Jazzvathe extensions, and will not complain if no FF package is present20:30
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Jun 12:00 UTC: Bugs for Hugs Day | 24 Jun 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 24 Jun 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 24 Jun 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 25 Jun 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 25 Jun 22:00 UTC: Platform Team
VolansJazzva and asac thankd for the clarification20:30
Jazzvanp :)20:30
asacok20:30
asacgnomefreak: can we discuss that in #ubuntu-mozillateam later?20:31
asacotherwise lets move on ...20:31
asacTOPIC: Meetings20:31
gnomefreakasac: sure that was just a comment. it may not be today unless i get pcs wprking20:31
ftaasac, maybe we can rely on mozilla-devscripts to install the links to the various extensions dirs, instead of have to that in each ext20:31
asacSUMMARY: We should have a meeting at least once a month or whatever we can decide on. This will help in membership approval as well as keeping everyone updated and keeping our support docs up to date. Once a month is just a suggestion.20:31
asacfta: we already do that20:31
gnomefreakasac: atleast once a month and always a week or 2 after UDS20:32
asacfta: we could try to introduce more automation20:32
asacgnomefreak: you think its realistic to have monthly meetings?20:32
asaca month is quite short.20:32
* gnomefreak trying to think of best times to meet about current devel ect20:32
asacI'd be happy to do that, but someone needs to organize them :)20:32
gnomefreakasac: im thinking about it atm20:32
gnomefreakasac: maybe when we reach a certain amount of agenda points?20:33
asacif we have monthly meetings then i dont think we need special meeting after UDS20:33
Jazzvabrb20:33
gnomefreakasac: thats why im thinking about it20:33
asacgnomefreak: well. imo we should try to get a regular meeting in place20:33
Volansproposal: once a month if there is something in the agenda...20:33
gnomefreakmaybe every 6 weeks20:33
Nafallognomefreak: +120:33
asacyeah, problem is that people are always lazy to add agenda items20:33
asaceven though there are things to discuss20:33
asacso Id like to get a regular schedule20:34
gnomefreakthat will give us enough time to get what this meeting needs done20:34
asac6 weeks sounds reasonable20:34
asacanyone disagrees?20:34
Volans+120:34
shirish+1 on that20:34
asacwho volunteers to prepare the schedule for the next half year or so?20:34
gnomefreakEVERYONE  add points to agenda as you think of them please20:34
asacand get that on the fridge and wiki?20:34
gnomefreakthis way its not thrown together like this time20:34
asacat best the same person would send multiple reminders as well :)20:34
gnomefreakasac: set it on wiki and i will get it on  fridge 2 weeks before meeting20:35
Volansasac: what permission are needed to set meetings?20:35
asaclike 2 weeks in advance "early" notice to mailing list .... 1 week and a day before meeting to mailing list and all team members :)20:35
gnomefreakasac: i can do that as normal20:35
Jazzva_120:35
Jazzva+120:35
asacVolans: none. you need to fridge admins to add them20:35
asaci never did that ;)20:35
gnomefreaki had one ready to send to planet but sister came down and i forgot20:35
asacgnomefreak is probably the best candidate; anyone wants to be his backup?20:35
Nafallotopic here as well I guess. or is that automagic?20:35
Volansif nobody can I can help for that20:35
asacNafallo: thats the meeting bot20:36
asacNafallo: depends on what you got added to the fridge calendar20:36
Nafalloshiny :-)20:36
* gnomefreak has a few people i talk with regularly from fridge dev tema20:36
asacVolans: ok thanks20:36
gnomefreakasac:  was the bot fixed to post minutes?20:36
asacACTION: gnomefreak and Volans to create meeting schedule for next 6 month and take care of getting those meeting on fridge and sending preannouncements :)20:36
asacgnomefreak: no the bot is gone today :(20:37
asacgnomefreak: i wanted to use the MootBot, but it disappeared20:37
* gnomefreak wonders if its worth looking into20:37
asacgnomefreak: we should20:37
gnomefreakasac: it didnt post minutes anyway20:37
asacgnomefreak: yes, but TOPCIS and ACTIONS20:37
asacand so on20:37
asacnot tha bad20:37
asacand logs afaik20:37
gnomefreakwe need a place to post them and than i will talk with the admins of it to see if we can add plugins on where to post them20:38
asacgnomefreak: ok. mayber suggest your findings on mailing list once you have options :)20:38
gnomefreakasac: ok that works20:38
asacok20:38
asaclets move on :)20:38
asacTOPIC: Large scale Extensions - Next steps20:38
gnomefreakwhos is htat?20:38
gnomefreakthat?20:39
Nafalloasac20:39
asaci think there is not much to say exept that its not yet ready and that we will keep you updated on mozillateam mailing list20:39
asacmaybe a reminder to subscribe to that list if you havent done so yet20:39
gnomefreakasac: what is it?20:39
asacits really low traffic20:39
gnomefreakwhat list?20:39
* gnomefreak so lost20:39
asacgnomefreak: mt list20:39
asacgnomefreak: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Firefox3Extensions/LargeScaleMaintenance20:39
asaci talked a bit about this in the beginning of this meeting20:40
asacgnomefreak: maybe read the log of this channel20:40
Nafallobaah. low traffic is what they all say in the beginning, then you have to change MUA to keep up :-P20:40
asacNafallo: look at the stats20:40
asacits like 15 mails a month or so20:40
gnomefreakah ok20:40
Jazzvaasac, 15 mails/month is a lot of traffic afaics ;)20:41
gnomefreakNafallo: pretty much 1 topic every couple of months20:41
asachttps://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mozillateam20:41
asacJazzva: you must be kidding20:41
asacJazzva: a lot in terms of MT mailing list :)20:41
asachttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mozillateam/2008-June/thread.html20:41
asacthats june so far20:41
asacquite active20:41
asacmonth20:41
asachttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mozillateam/2008-May/thread.html20:41
JazzvaOh, my... didn't notice :)20:41
asacmay was more silent :)20:41
gnomefreakasac: ok work needs to be done on that wiki20:42
gnomefreak?20:42
gnomefreakbefore its ready for wide spread?20:43
asacgnomefreak: you mean largescale maintenance?20:43
asacit needs to be updated while we implement it20:43
asacits not ment to be wide spread20:43
gnomefreakasac: yes that would e it20:43
gnomefreakbe20:43
asacgnomefreak: i think that document is not ment for consumption by extension maintainers20:43
gnomefreakwidespread as in people using it to help with our extensions20:44
asacits more ment to outline the details of what needs to be done from a technical pov20:44
gnomefreakwhat is it for than?20:44
shirishgnomefreak: thanx, for I haven't been able to understand much of it. +1 on cleaning up LargeScaleMaintainance Wiki20:44
gnomefreakah ok20:44
asaconce its working we will have to udpate the Packaging page to reflect the new workflow20:44
gnomefreakok i see what you are doijng now20:44
asacshirish: its not ment for consumption by package maintainers20:44
gnomefreakthanks20:44
asacshirish: the packaging page will have the high-level view onto the semi-automatic workflow20:45
gnomefreakshirish: its a behind the seans for outlines until posted to the packaging ect... pages20:45
asacs/seans/scenes/ :)20:45
gnomefreakyeah that thanks brain fart20:46
asacso to summarize this agenda item:20:46
gnomefreakoh asac if i find out that network manager is causing my issues im gonna fly to where you are with my pcs and tell you to fix :(20:46
asacnext steps are: finish the largescalemaintenance infrastrcuture20:47
shirishcouldn't that be worked with having some nice illustration perhaps? Would make sense to some more people perhaps?20:47
asacthen document high-level view of workflow in Packaging20:47
asacshirish: the high-level view?20:47
gnomefreak\sh: for what?20:47
gnomefreakdamn20:47
gnomefreakshirish: ^^^20:47
asacshirish: i think having illustratinos would be helpful :)20:47
asacto illustrate the workflow20:47
asacbut someone has to do that ;)20:47
* gnomefreak can help someone once they decide what they want20:48
gnomefreakbut i will not take lead on that20:48
gnomefreaktoo much to do with wikis as is20:49
asacgnomefreak: shirish: lets defer the Packaging documetnation details until we are doing them :)20:49
gnomefreakasac: +120:49
asacok, i think we have two items left on agenda :)20:49
JazzvaI can help with picking out the packaging related details from LargeScaleMaintenance and copying them to Packaging :)20:49
JazzvaYay :)20:49
asacTOPIC: Extension Team Marketing20:49
asacis anyone here who likes to blog?20:49
asac:)20:49
gnomefreakoh crap thats gonna be fun20:49
gnomefreakasac: i blog more than most20:50
Jazzvaasac, from time to time... When I get an idea ;)20:50
asacwat i have in mind is to post monthly reports on the extension packaging process20:50
gnomefreakif someone writes an outline of what they want i can edit and post20:50
asacwhat20:50
asacfor that we have to find someone who publishes them20:50
gnomefreakasac: monthly?20:50
asacand more importantly we need to decide on what metrics to include in that report20:50
gnomefreakmy blog is connected to ubuntu planet20:51
JazzvaWell, would be good if blog has Planet Ubuntu access...20:51
asacmy initial suggestion would be:20:51
Jazzvagnomefreak, yay :)20:51
asac1. extensions updated this month20:51
asac2. new extensions suggested this month20:51
asac3. new extensions released this month20:51
asac4. extensions that need to be updated (here a list to the extensions that have a new upstream version)20:51
gnomefreakJazzva: can you outline a page or a set of notes on the suggestions from asac20:51
Jazzvagnomefreak, ok. I will tell you when I'm done :)20:52
gnomefreakthanks20:52
asac5. total extensions maintained by m-e-d20:52
Jazzvanp :)20:52
asacany other metrics?20:52
Volansasac: for me +1, very complete stats20:52
gnomefreakJazzva: im gonna need a few days atleast to fix PCs and hav e abirthday to myself20:52
Jazzva6. don't hesitate to join the team and help out ;)20:52
asacwe could also include a "medal of honour"  :)20:52
asacfor the m-e-d member that updated most packages :)20:53
Nafalloasac: sounds like UWN material :-)20:53
gnomefreakasac: that looks good  and add section for Jazzva idea20:53
gnomefreakJazzva: do we have a wiki on joining the team?20:53
asacJazzva: yeah. we should include a link to our team and some nice docs in the report20:53
Nafalloat least part of that20:53
Jazzvagnomefreak, no, we formed the requirements on this meeting, and it will be turned into a wiki page20:53
asacNafallo: yeah. UWN could definitly republish it20:53
gnomefreakwho can script for greasemonkey? offtopic i know20:54
gnomefreakJazzva: thanks :)20:54
asacACTION: write scritps that gather stats for 1. 2. 3. 4. 5.20:54
asacfta: ?20:54
asaci guess your script is already prepared  for some of those :)20:54
asac(e.g. extensions that need updated=20:54
Volansasac: written in what languages?20:54
asacVolans: for now i wouldnt pitch too high :)20:54
NafalloVolans: ASM ;-)20:55
Volansthanks Nafallo20:55
asacVolans: english ... and if there are volunters feel free to translate and publish in other forums20:55
ftaasac, yes, but that will change. it was a quick hack in shell.20:55
ftayet, it was enough to impress Jazzva ;)20:55
gnomefreakasac: scripts for what?20:55
Volansasac: sorry, I meant "script language" ;)20:55
asacwe could also use the launchpad blog20:55
shirishguys, what is the mozillateam's take on other browsers? Are they part of mozillateam or not?20:55
Jazzvafta, the output was cool :P20:55
gnomefreakyour points dont need scripts do they?20:56
asace.g. m-e-d team blog20:56
asacACTION: gnomefreak to blog about stats20:56
Jazzvafta, and the script looked impressive :). I'm no good at scripting... :)20:56
gnomefreakshirish: depends on what ones you mean20:56
asacACTION: figure out if we can blog on launchpad :)20:56
ftagnomefreak, no, but a script to gather those stats for you would definitely help20:56
Volansfor the maketing side of the stats the e-m-d start page should have an introduction that explain what the team do, hoiw to join, etc...20:56
gnomefreakasac: atm no you cant20:56
Jazzvaasac, I think we can blog on LP.20:56
gnomefreakfta: right20:56
gnomefreakJazzva: i havent found a way20:56
gnomefreakwe can talk to #lp about that20:57
asacVolans: so maybe add a MozillaExtensionDevTeam page?20:57
gnomefreakthey are helpful20:57
Jazzvagnomefreak, I'll take a look. I read an announcement for that feature20:57
shirishgnomefreak: say all the browsers which are mentioned therein www-browser package20:57
gnomefreakJazzva: thanks i only saw mailing list from lp updated lately20:57
ftaasac, ok for this ACTION. anyway, it will come with the rest20:58
gnomefreakshirish: no we cant as desktop team has thier own that they maintain i think epiphany is released by gnome anyway20:58
asacfta: right. but some hackish stats so we can start thigs month would be great :)20:58
shirishgnomefreak: thanx20:58
gnomefreakwe need to find out what vrowsers and who maintains them atm but dont get hopes up20:58
Volansasac: also yes, or /MozillaTeam/Extension/Team page20:58
asacACTION: target initial m-e-d report for end of July (or if we are good June)20:58
gnomefreakshirish: can you make a list and push talk to mailing list20:59
asacVolans: ++20:59
shirishgnomefreak: sure +1 say tomorrow or day after, but can definitely do that20:59
Volansor DevTeam20:59
asacACTION: someone to create a /MozillaTeam/Extensions/Team page that includes a) short intro, b) requirements to join (as discussed)20:59
gnomefreakshirish: i wont get to see it until as late as thurs\day20:59
ftaasac, ok21:00
asac... and links to the most important resources (e.g. Packaging, etc.)21:00
asacok anything else to add to this item?21:00
gnomefreakmoday i work on connection tuesday is birthday so im off and  wednesday i take grandmother to hospital for tests21:00
Volansmaybe we can use gobby for write those wikis all togheter21:01
gnomefreakwe should really add links to the other pages on the joining team pages21:01
asacVolans: not sure. gobby is useful if you write while discussing21:01
asacVolans: for that we would need to organize wiki sessions ;)21:01
asacfor me it works to just use editmoin :)21:01
gnomefreak+1 asac21:02
Volansok21:02
gnomefreaki wget the page and edit it alot21:02
gnomefreakthat way i dont lock the wiki up21:02
asacyes, editmoin works quite well here ... maybe test that package21:02
asaclets move on :)21:02
asac(2h already)21:02
gnomefreaklast item?21:02
asaci see two topics left: 1. Proposed members for Ubuntu-MozillaTeam21:02
asac2. Otherw Business :)21:02
gnomefreakgo to l2 first21:03
VolansI can help for those pages but not for texts (due to my not so good english ;))21:03
gnomefreaki want smoke21:03
asacgnomefreak: i think there are a lot of people waiting for an accept/decline.21:03
asacTOPIC: Proposed members for Ubuntu-MozillaTeam21:03
gnomefreakasac: we need to remove them if they dont answer the post we give them21:03
asacwe have one candidate for this meeting21:03
gnomefreakbut how long to give them to reply?21:03
asacStephen Lau21:03
asacsteveA[A[A[A[A21:03
asacsteveups21:03
gnomefreakis he here?21:04
asaci think he is flock upstream21:04
gnomefreakwe dont have flock yet21:04
gnomefreakare we adding it to intrepid?21:04
asacin general i would be fine to add upstreams to mozillateam if they maintain their own packaging branch21:04
fta(i hope so)21:04
asacbut i think he didnt do that yet21:04
gnomefreakasac: agreed21:04
Jazzvaasac: +121:04
gnomefreakupstream should be accepted21:05
asacok, so decline his application asking him to actively contribute to packaging for some time21:05
asache could help fta with packaging flock for instance21:05
gnomefreakasac: lets  find out how upstream he is21:05
asacfta: do you want to carry that message to him?21:05
asacgnomefreak: he is flock (or songbird)21:05
asacfta: ?21:05
gnomefreakexample what he does and last fix he produced21:06
Jazzvaasac, Songbird... that's what his wiki page says21:06
gnomefreakas in is he workoing the front or is he bug working....21:06
asacah ok21:06
asacfta: do you want to mentor stevel?21:06
Jazzvaasac, actually Songbird Developer Advocate... dunno what that actually means :)21:06
ftahe helped me once, to triage some error messages from Songbird, but that hardly qualified for membership imho21:07
gnomefreaksongbird devs we need badly. for example the license issue with songbird been worked out?21:07
gnomefreakfta: agreed21:07
asacfta: ok. i think we should explain to him that he needs to contribute as ~mozillateam only makes sense if he needs write access to branches21:07
asacfta: and that we would be willing to help him get started on packaging if he still is interested :)21:07
gnomefreakasac: sounds good but i would love to not run him off if possible21:08
ftaasac, i agree21:08
asacfta: nevertheless, he can just stay in channel and contribute without being member21:08
asacat some point we could setup a team: "mozillateam-supporters" :)21:08
gnomefreakatleast as upstream contact21:08
asacor mozillateam-community ;)21:08
gnomefreakatleast as upstream contact)21:09
asacwhere everyone who feels the need to be affiliated with Mozillateam can join without requiring active packaging work21:09
gnomefreak;)21:09
shirish+1 on that ;)21:09
gnomefreakand we move them as we see fit21:09
asacgnomefreak: right21:09
gnomefreakmove up to kmain team21:09
gnomefreak-k21:09
Nafalloasac: he can branch and poke for merge is he needs write access :-)21:09
gnomefreaklets get us fixed first21:10
asacACTION: setup mozillateam-community team and add applicants that do not need branch access or havent otherwise contributed considerably to mozillateam21:10
gnomefreakwe have alot of work to do as it is trying to reconfig our team21:10
asacmozillateam itself as well as m-e-d should be part of tha team Id say21:10
gnomefreakyes21:10
fta+121:10
asacgnomefreak: we dont need to reconfig our team21:10
Jazzva+1 on the idea, it's nice :)21:10
gnomefreakbefore that can happen we need to fix our membership pages to have a process21:11
asacok great :)21:11
gnomefreakother wise we have nothing for that team21:11
asaci think we are through this lengthy, but fruitful agenda :)21:11
asacnext topic would be "Other Business" :)21:11
gnomefreakwho can work on the membership pages for e-d and mt21:11
JazzvaOther business? :)21:11
Jazzvaasac, oh, right :)21:12
gnomefreakasac: we need to break that down to topics for next meeting21:12
shirishI'm all out of stuff21:12
gnomefreaki think that is there as a guide21:12
asacgnomefreak: i think we already have an action for the m-e-d page21:12
shirishso will see u all l8ter guys21:12
asacgnomefreak: the mozillateam page can stay the same21:12
asacshirish: thanks!21:12
shirishbye all :)21:12
JazzvaHave fun, shirish :)21:12
gnomefreakasac: ok than i will remove david version 2 from it and clean it up (i havent looked at it in awhile)21:12
asacgnomefreak: we can add the info that applicants that dont qualify for mozillateam will be automatically redirected to mozillateam-community21:13
gnomefreakok21:13
gnomefreaki like it21:13
asacACTION: asac to document redirection procedure to mozillateam-community on mozillateam membership page21:13
asacTOPIC: other business21:13
asacanything?21:13
gnomefreakshould we have a LP mailing list for the communtiy team?21:13
asacgnomefreak: for now mozillateam should be enough21:13
gnomefreakok21:13
asaci have one thing for other businesses: minutes ;)21:14
asaccan someone please safe the log of this channel in case ubuntulog failed?21:14
Jazzvaasac, gnomefreak: Maybe we could have a separate LP list and to post announcements like "New FF is in the archive"?21:14
asacs/safe/save/21:14
asacJazzva: we could also use LP blog for that21:14
Jazzvaasac, I do the auto-logging ;)21:14
asacJazzva: good21:14
ftame too21:15
asacso given that we get a complete log from this meeting, is there anyone who can write up minutes from this meeting?21:15
Jazzvaasac, gnomefreak: As for the blog, I took a quick look through mail archive, haven't found that announcement...21:15
gnomefreakJazzva: we need to see if we can blog on LP first i would think instead of list for the moment21:15
asacits mostly just pasting TOPICS + ACTIONS21:15
gnomefreakJazzva: see  #launchpad tomorrow :)21:15
asacand maybe take a brief look if there are actions we didnt mark as ACTIONS :)21:15
Jazzvaasac, if no one wants to, I'll do it...21:16
Jazzvagnomefreak, k21:16
gnomefreakare we done with meeting?21:16
asacgnomefreak: almost :)21:16
asacjust need a minutes drafter.21:16
* gnomefreak needs to figure this crap out 21:16
asacJazzva: would be great. but just a brief notes thing21:16
asacfor details just attach the log21:16
Jazzvaasac, cool :)21:16
gnomefreakbe back in a few21:17
asacwe can blog(announce)21:17
asachttps://edge.launchpad.net/firefox-extensions/+announce21:17
asacits per-team, but per projet21:17
asacso most likely the drafter of announcements must be driver for that project21:17
asacor something21:17
fta"Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page. "21:17
JazzvaThe same...21:17
asacfta: ok good. can you test on xulrunner project?21:18
asacfta: try now please21:18
asaci made mozillateam the driver21:18
asacJazzva: ^^21:18
ftasame21:18
Jazzvanada...21:18
asacok let me flip the maintainer then21:19
asacJazzva: fta: better?21:19
Jazzvaworks now21:19
asacgood. so apparently only the maintainer can post blog entries for the project21:19
asacfine21:19
asaci think firefox-extensions news could go through that project for now21:19
JazzvaWould be good if we could have that function for teams :).21:20
asacand aggregated on our blogs (e.g. mine, gnomefreaks)21:20
asacJazzva: right21:20
JazzvaIs it possible to be added? Just to know if it's ok to post a bug report :)21:20
asacJazzva: well ... why not21:20
asacJazzva: open a bug and subscribe me to it21:20
asacand let me know :)21:20
JazzvaSure21:20
asacso i can confirm this request21:20
asac"e.g. Please support Team announcements"21:21
asacok any other business?21:21
asac321:21
asac221:21
asac121:21
asacthanks for the last 2.5 hours ;)21:22
asacwas nice to have a meeting again!21:22
JazzvaYep... good job :D21:22
asacif there are open points you felt not be properly dealt with, go ahead and mail mailing list :)21:22
JazzvaSee you in #ubuntu-mozillateam :)21:23
asacsee you21:23
* asac takes a short break21:23
Volanssee you21:28

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