[01:12] <lamont> ScottK: I admin a machine with dovecot+postfix/sasl, fwiw
[01:12] <lamont> I didn't install it though
[03:49] <shelbyscates> hey guys
[03:49] <shelbyscates>  id really appreciate some help
[03:49] <shelbyscates> i need a way for my computer to turn itself on at a certain time every day
[03:50] <shelbyscates> ive tried wol but i couldnt get it to work :'(
[03:50] <shelbyscates> im willing to do almost anything besides strap a clock to it
[03:50] <shelbyscates> can someone please help me do this?
[04:07] <RoAkSoAx> shelbyscates, cron jobs :)
[04:07] <RoAkSoAx> shelbyscates, or the at command
[04:09] <shelbyscates> well... cron jobns dont work when the computer is off! :'(
[04:10] <RoAkSoAx> shelbyscates, oh my bad, i missread.. thought you said to turn off...
[04:10] <shelbyscates> oh
[04:11] <shelbyscates> ok
[04:11] <shelbyscates> ;)
[04:11] <shelbyscates> lol
[04:11] <RoAkSoAx> shelbyscates, maybe your bios supports that
[04:11] <shelbyscates> it dosent :(
[04:12] <RoAkSoAx> shelbyscates, other than that then.. you'll maybe need a special device to do that..
[04:13] <shelbyscates> :\
[04:13] <shelbyscates> how about wol?
[04:13] <RoAkSoAx> yeah a device that implements wol
[04:13] <RoAkSoAx> shelbyscates, take a look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake-on-LAN#Linux
[07:14] <Alex_Gaynor> Hi, I just got a VPS with ubuntu-8.04-minimal installed on it, and I'm trying to get setup, I created a new user with adduser, however when I try to ssh in I get a permission denied error, right now I am just logged in as root
[07:21] <normanm> Alex_Gaynor, did you set the shell to something valid ?
[07:22] <normanm> and set a password
[07:22] <Alex_Gaynor> normanm: I don't think I set it to anything
[07:22] <Alex_Gaynor> I did set a passwor
[07:22] <Alex_Gaynor> d
[07:22] <Alex_Gaynor> This is my first real server, so I'm just learning my way around, despite months on the desktop
[07:22] <normanm> look at less /var/log/auth.log
[07:23] <Alex_Gaynor> It looks like shell=/bin/bash
[07:24] <normanm> no error in it ?
[07:24] <Alex_Gaynor> Whenever I log on as root I get a message, id: cannot find name for group ID 509
[07:24] <normanm> Alex_Gaynor, did you create the homedir ?
[07:24] <Alex_Gaynor> Yes, /home/alex/ exists
[07:24] <normanm> Alex_Gaynor, right perms ?
[07:25] <Alex_Gaynor> I'm not sure, I haven't altered anything
[07:25] <normanm> ls -ltad /home/alex
[07:25] <Alex_Gaynor> drwxr-xr-x 2 alex alex 4096 Jun 22 23:06 /home/alex/
[07:26] <normanm> hmm looks ok
[07:26] <normanm> and ls -ltad /home
[07:26] <Alex_Gaynor> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Jun 22 23:06 /home
[07:26] <normanm> ok what is the exactly error you got ?
[07:27] <Alex_Gaynor> When I enter my password I get: Permission denied, please try again.
[07:28] <normanm> have you tried to login directly ( without ssh ) with the account ?
[07:28] <Alex_Gaynor> How would I do that?
[07:28] <normanm> go to the console and login ?
[07:28] <normanm> or as root su - alex
[07:28] <Alex_Gaynor> Ok using login works
[07:29] <Alex_Gaynor> I can login as alex
[07:29] <Alex_Gaynor> Just not via ssh
[07:29] <normanm> check in ssh config if login via password is allowed
[07:30] <Alex_Gaynor> That would be in /etc/ssh/ssh_config ?
[07:31] <normanm> /etc/ssh/sshd_config
[07:31] <Alex_Gaynor> What setting am I looking for?
[07:31] <normanm> man sshd_config
[07:33] <Alex_Gaynor> That doesn't say which setting allows login via password
[07:34] <Alex_Gaynor> The PassWordAuthentication line is commented out
[07:34] <Alex_Gaynor> I take it I should remove the comment?
[07:35] <Alex_Gaynor> normanm: ?
[07:36] <normanm> nope.. if it is commented it should work
[07:36] <normanm> are you sure you use the right username/pass on ssh ?
[07:36] <Alex_Gaynor> Yeah
[07:51] <normanm> Alex_Gaynor, hmm I cant believe this =P
[07:52] <Alex_Gaynor> I feel like I must be doing something horrifically wrong FWIW, when I do: scp /home/some/file root_username@ip:/home/alex/ I get Unable to get term attr: Invalid argument; id: cannot find name for group ID 509; select: Bad file descriptor
[08:05] <Alex_Gaynor> For all I know this is because I have a shoddy host, I won the hosting, so I didn't really vet them
[08:15] <Alex_Gaynor> normanm: Oh my god, there is apparently one IP for root console, and a different one for regular ssh access
[08:15] <Alex_Gaynor> Thanks for your patience
[08:56] <davmor2> Query before I write a bug report please,  Why are all the driver options not installed for print server (eg splix & foo2zjs driver for samsung clp range of printers) also I know the next part is almost certainly for security but why can't you access the cups interface from the server  (ie http://address.of.server:631 reports no access check permissions etc) but there is no easy way to configure cups from ssh-ing int
[09:02] <davmor2> scrap the interface section discovered why I'd not seen the listen section
[09:29] <captbaritone> What are symptoms of an overloaded power supply?
[09:29] <lexi_> smells
[09:29] <lexi_> :p
=== lexi_ is now known as alexcf
[09:30] <captbaritone> Could it possibly trigger a false drive failure?
[09:30] <alexcf> yep
[09:31] <alexcf> very possibly
[09:31] <alexcf> processors may not bea ble to chug all the power they want
[09:39] <captbaritone> I just installed three 750 gig sata drives in on old machine
[09:39] <captbaritone> and already sent one back to newegg because it failed
[09:39] <captbaritone> now anther one failed
[09:39] <captbaritone> but only when being used in the raid
[09:40] <kraut> moin
[09:40] <captbaritone> maybe because the PSU can't keep up?
[09:40] <Osax> Hi all
[09:40] <captbaritone> hey Osax
[09:40] <Osax> I'm having a problem with ip_forward (routing) with Ubuntu 8.04 server
[09:40] <Osax> I did echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
[09:41] <Osax> and I have two NICs
[09:41] <Osax> the maximum I can reach is the second NIC
[09:41] <Osax> but not any other ip in the network or internet
[09:41] <Osax> is there any thing special I have to do to enable routing other than this?
[09:42] <Osax> anyone? plz
[09:45] <Osax> a simple graph is like: (client - 192.168.200.10) ----[switch/hub]---[Server (NIC2 - 192.168.200.1 *local) - (NIC1 - 192.168.10.200 *internet)---[internet switch]
[09:49] <Deeps> your internet switch might only beconfigured to NAT for 192.168.10.0/24
[09:52] <Osax> Deeps, but shouldn't I be able to at least ping any other client/pc that is in the same network? 192.168.10.0/24?
[09:52] <Osax> like.. (client - 192.168.200.10) ----[switch/hub]---[Server (NIC2 - 192.168.200.1 *local) - (NIC1 - 192.168.10.200 *internet)---(client - 192.168.10.8) for example
[09:53] <Deeps> yep
[09:53] <Deeps> if you have the appropriate routing table defined
[09:53] <Deeps> client needs default route 192.168.200.1
[09:54] <Deeps> server needs route 192.168.200.0/whatevernetmaskyoursuing to go over 192.168.200.1 / nic2
[09:54] <Deeps> server needs route 192.168.10.0/24 to go over 192.168.10.200 / nic1
[09:54] <Deeps> and client 192.168.10.8 needs to know 192.168.200.0/whatevernetmaskyoursuing routes over 192.168.200.1
[09:54] <Osax> aha
[09:55] <Deeps> sorry, that first client that didnt have an ip is client 192.168.200.10
[09:55] <Osax> the server (ubuntu server linux router) has 192.168.200.1/24 and 192.168.10.200/24
[09:55] <Osax> checking others...
[10:19] <Osax> Deeps, thanks alot! I was pinging the internet router from an internal IP ;-)
[10:19] <Osax> working fine... my mistake
[10:28] <ctx144k> hello all
[10:29] <ctx144k> my postgresql-database is crashed, i cant start i again. http://rafb.net/p/UuT6tU77.html
[10:29] <ctx144k> how should i rebuild my database with my backup?
[10:30] <ctx144k> dropdb only works with a running mashine
[10:30] <ctx144k> i want a complete rebuiling of the database (like a new installation)
=== jpds_ is now known as jpds
=== jpds is now known as Guest29283
=== `6og is now known as Kamping_Kaiser
[12:31] <uvirtbot> New bug: #242309 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 (main) "expire-log-days typo error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242309
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
[13:05] <uvirtbot> New bug: #242313 in openldap2.3 (main) "TLS_CACERTDIR not supported in gnutls" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242313
[13:26] <uvirtbot> New bug: #241562 in gvfs (main) "Latest gvfs-update in hardy-proposed causes huge IO-lags (dup-of: 209520)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241562
[13:46] <uvirtbot> New bug: #242325 in samba (main) "Samba with "ldap passwd sync = only" fails to change passwords" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242325
=== emgent_ is now known as emgent
[14:28] <putnam> so -- anyone wanna talk about pptpd?
[14:31] <lukehasnoname> I don't
[14:35] <soren> putnam: That's an odd sort of question, isn't it?
[14:39] <putnam> haha
[14:39] <putnam> a bit
[14:39] <putnam> i've had a frustrating bout with setting up VPN on my server
[14:40] <putnam> i have a dedicated machine with just one interface that is connected directly to WAN
[14:40] <putnam> i want to setup PPTP on this machine so i can have a virtual local network that all clients share -- i don't even care about routing internet to them right now
[14:41] <putnam> i spent some time trying openswan, but it is very difficult to get it working cross-platform for OS X and Windows out-of-box
[14:41] <putnam> PPTP seems to have a much better chance of working OOB on all platforms
[14:42] <putnam> i installed pptpd and i'm currently stuck -- my clients hang trying to authenticate
[14:42] <putnam> pppd reports a timeout trying to send conf-requests
[14:42] <putnam> the same error occurs on the other side, at least on os x which also uses ppd
[14:43] <soren> Did you look into openvpn at all?
[14:43] <putnam> yeah, requires installing a client on all os's
[14:43] <soren> I find that much more accessible on most platforms.
[14:43] <putnam> so it kind of kills the out-of-box issue
[14:43] <soren> Ah, right.
[14:43] <putnam> i need it to be completely friction free, as it is somethign that will strictly be used as a sort of pick-up-and-go thing
[14:43] <soren> Don't know. I haven't used poptop for a looong time.
[14:44] <putnam> at first poptop seemed so easy
[14:44] <putnam> but when i get to ppp it's a scary mess :(
[14:47] <soren> I suggest you look at a more poptop specific help forum of some sort. I don't know if they have an irc channel or anything.
[14:52] <putnam> apparently they do, but it's empty :(
[14:52] <putnam> #pptp
[14:56] <uvirtbot> New bug: #242312 in gnome-panel (main) "HARDY: Gnome panel takes more than 10 min to load or do not load at all (dup-of: 209520)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242312
[14:59] <putnam_> aha
[14:59] <putnam_> so apparently GRE packets were filtered on my corp network
[14:59] <putnam_> i am on an EVDO card now and PPTP works
[15:22] <lukehasnoname> I've got a proposal at the server meeting tomorrow, low priority, but I hope it will be taken under consideration.
[15:45] <marc-andre> hi
[15:45] <marc-andre> how can i block certain deb's from being upgraded via apt-get upgrade?
[15:48] <normanm> marc-andre, use aptitude and set the debs on hold "="
[15:48] <marc-andre> normanm: ok, i try that, thanks
[15:52] <GeekSquadSF> does the latest server distro have a mail service built-in or is there a better third party mail server?
[15:53] <lukehasnoname> GeekSquadSF: The included MTA is Postfix
[15:54] <trakians> hello folks
[15:54] <trakians> Im having biiiiig troubles with pg on 7.10
[15:54] <gladk> trakians: hi
[15:55] <trakians> user postgres simply does not login
[15:56] <trakians> gladk: psql -h localhost -p 5432 -d postgres -U postgres ***** Password for user postgres: ******* psql: FATAL:  password authentication failed for user "postgres"
[15:56] <trakians> the password was correctly set for both user account and bd account
[15:56] <gladk> trakians: ?
[15:57] <trakians> when i try to connect into my postgres db with the default postgres user, it  does not connect
[15:58] <lamont> GeekSquadSF: although postfix isn't necessarily installed by default, depending
[16:00] <lukehasnoname> guess he didn't like our answers
[16:01] <trakians> lunch time.
[16:01] <trakians> brb
[16:32] <lukehasnoname> My GOD there has been a lot of discussion about w3m
[16:32] <zul> mathiaz: ping
[16:32] <mathiaz> zul: shtoiinngg
[16:33] <zul> mathiaz: so updates are frozen for 8.04.1 but I have still have a bunch of fixes pending for hardy so I created a bzr repo to keep track of them https://code.edge.launchpad.net/serversrt
[16:35] <zul> I am going to be using this inconjunction with the wiki pages
[16:42] <GeekSquadSF> does anyone know of any problems with running ubuntu server on VMware
[16:43] <lukehasnoname> no
[16:43] <lukehasnoname> not that I know if
[16:43] <lukehasnoname> of
[16:44] <lukehasnoname> I know JeOS is designed with VMWare in mind
[16:44] <mathiaz> zul: why are you using a bzr tree ? isn't the wiki page enough ?
[16:45] <zul> mathiaz: basically so I can keep better track of it and if I get frustrated with something I can just revert the diff
[16:46] <mathiaz> zul: well there is also a revert function in the wiki page
[16:46] <GeekSquadSF> faster to find exactly what I'm looking for... (lots of stuff on linux servers...)
[16:47] <mathiaz> zul: I'm just not sure if it's worth to have yet another place to look at for SRU
[16:47] <zul> mathiaz:  its just the debdiffs anyways
[16:47] <GeekSquadSF> and second.... I don't know jack when it comes to servers.... just looking for a few quick answers...
[16:48] <lukehasnoname> I'm no VM expert
[16:49] <mathiaz> zul: right - so you plan to use the bzr tree to keep track of the debdiff ?
[16:49] <zul> mathiaz: yes
[16:53] <uvirtbot> New bug: #242383 in postfix (main) "default postfix config creates backscatter" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242383
[16:54]  * ScottK coughs BS and reads the bug.
[16:54] <uvirtbot> New bug: #242380 in samba (main) "samba package broken on 8.04.1 daily" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242380
[16:56] <tharis20> How can I install Ubuntu-Server in a Pen-Drive?
[16:57] <lamont> ScottK: interesting
[16:58] <ScottK> Yeah.
[16:58] <ScottK> IIRC this exact issue was discussed on postfix-users fairly recently.
[16:58] <GeekSquadSF> you guys have a link that I can get noob info on ubuntu server?
[16:59] <ScottK> It's that way for backwards compatibility.
[16:59] <ScottK> lamont: No reason it needs to be that way for new installs I don't think.
[16:59] <mathiaz> GeekSquadSF: http://tinyurl.com/65jzxw
[16:59] <GeekSquadSF> thanks much
[16:59] <ScottK> lamont: If it becomes widely known that postfix will do that, then spammers will use it.  I think it ought to be changed.
[16:59] <lamont> yeah
[17:00] <ScottK> Medium or High?
[17:00] <lamont> that'd be a bug that was introduced when parent_matches was adeeed
[17:00] <lamont> added even
[17:00] <ScottK> Sounds reasonable.
[17:00] <ScottK> I'd have guessed that should default to off though.
[17:00] <lamont> yeah
[17:01] <lamont> I rather expect I'll just change the default in the source. :-)
[17:01] <lamont> but first I'll pester Wietse about ti
[17:01] <ScottK> The default is pretty extensive.
[17:01] <ScottK> parent_domain_matches_subdomains = debug_peer_list,fast_flush_domains,mynetworks,permit_mx_backup_networks,qmqpd_authorized_clients,relay_domains,smtpd_access_maps
[17:02]  * ScottK goes for high.
[17:02] <ScottK> lamont: I pointed that bug at you ...
[17:03] <ScottK> Just so you won't forget.
[17:03] <lamont> heh. thanks
[17:06] <ScottK> lamont: You don't suppose Debian Bug #293501 might be the same issue, just extraordinarily poorly expressed?
[17:06] <uvirtbot> Debian bug 293501 in postfix "postfix: Postfix 2.1.4-4 in unstable is an open relay unless relay_domains is explicitly set" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/293501
[17:08] <lamont> ScottK: that would depend on whether or not the parent_matches thing is in 2.1
[17:09] <ScottK> Yeah.  Dunno.  Was hoping you would.
[17:09] <lamont> I'll look
[17:10] <lamont> src/global/mail_params.h:#define VAR_PAR_DOM_MATCH              "parent_domain_matches_subdomains"
[17:10] <lamont> could be
[17:17] <lamont> sigh.
[17:18] <lamont> ScottK: the parameter, and default, were introduced in ....
[17:18] <lamont> 1.1.0
[17:18] <ScottK> So that'd be a yes.
[17:19] <lamont> well, that'd be a "this bug would agree with the submitter, or it could be something completely different, includeing PEBCAK"
[17:19] <lamont> the debian bug is still a needinfo, albeit maybe not 'unreproducible' any longer
[17:19] <lamont> actually, no.
[17:20] <lamont> it's not an open relay per the LP bug, it's a backscatter source.
[17:20] <ScottK> The debian bug does say open relay, not backscatter
[17:20] <ScottK> ;-)
[17:20] <lamont> good. we agree then. :-)(
[17:20] <ScottK> You could take credit for fixing it and then see if there is a complaint.
[17:32] <lamont> or I could just close it as 'no traffic in forever" and see if there's a complaint. :-)
[17:33] <ScottK> That'd work too.
[17:34]  * ScottK closed one over the weekend along the lines of, "Yes, if you install the lib from volatile, the Etch package will not work, but that's not actually a bug in the package in Etch."
[17:37] <trakinas> hello! could anyone help me with a stupid postgres trouble?
[17:38] <trakinas> Im running 7.10
[17:40] <mathiaz> zul: wasn't the last apache2 merge a sync ?
[17:41] <mathiaz> zul: it seems that the only change that is left is the DebianMaintainerField update
[17:42] <zul> mathiaz: yeah that was my mistake
[17:42] <ScottK> mathiaz: He was suffering from ENOCOFFEE when he did it.
[17:43] <mathiaz> zul: right - could you request a sync from debian then ? 2.2.9-2 has been uploaded to debian
[17:44] <zul> mathiaz: sure
[17:48] <zul> mathiaz: done
[17:56] <uvirtbot> New bug: #242414 in apache2 (main) "Please sync apache-2.2.9-2 from debian unstable." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242414
=== dantal1zing is now known as dantalizing
[18:00] <trakinas> anyone?
[18:49] <shelbyscates> could someone help me set up my wol?
[18:49] <shelbyscates> i cant get it to work :(
[18:49] <shelbyscates> i tried the tutorial and it just dont do nuthin :\
[19:10] <lukehasnoname> ping
[19:12] <bicz> 13 ms
[19:32] <lukehasnoname> http://bsdtips.utcorp.net/mediawiki/index.php/Helio/usr
[19:32] <lukehasnoname> Get rid of the /usr/ directory
[19:47] <jdstrand> zul: can you take a look at bug #241448
[19:48] <uvirtbot> Launchpad bug 241448 in totem "Playing from Samba SMB shared folder now is not possible (it could be done until last upgrade)." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241448
[19:48] <zul> jdstrand: sure
=== dantal1zing is now known as dantalizing
[19:49] <zul> jdstrand: it might be fixed with the lanman changes that happened this weekend
[19:50] <jdstrand> zul: are these samba fixes?
[19:50] <zul> jdstrand: yep
[19:50] <jdstrand> or gvfs?
[19:50] <zul> samba fixes i definetly know about gvfs Im not quite sure about
[19:50] <jdstrand> zul: oh! lanman changes in smbclient or libsmbclient?
[19:51] <zul> libsmbclient
[19:51] <jdstrand> zul: aha, ok-- do you have a bug number and are they in your ppa?
[19:51] <zul> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/samba/3.0.28a-1ubuntu4.3
[19:51] <zul> its in proposed
[19:52] <jdstrand> zul I will add a note to the bug, and reference you saying that it *may* be fixed in -proposed
[19:52] <zul> jdstrand: coolio
[20:01] <jdstrand> zul: can you review my comments in bug #241448 and add any of your own if needed
[20:01] <uvirtbot> Launchpad bug 241448 in totem "Playing from Samba SMB shared folder now is not possible (it could be done until last upgrade)." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241448
[20:01] <jdstrand> ?
[20:02] <zul> sure
[20:03] <jdstrand> zul: though it's odd I can't reproduce it
[20:03] <jdstrand> (I'm using 4.2)
[20:06] <zul> not enough info in the bug he doesnt tell us what kind of SMB machine he is conneccting from
[20:06] <jdstrand> zul: no-- not enough info-- but I asked for more
[20:06] <jdstrand> zul: so we'll wait :)
[20:06] <zul> same
[20:07] <zul> *sigh*
[20:07] <zul> :)
[20:10] <jdstrand> kees, zul: fyi, added new 'tmpserve' arg to test-samba.py from qa-regressin-testing: http://paste.ubuntu.com/22406/
[20:10] <jdstrand> kees, zul: this allows for one command to setup a server to start testing various client connections (eg, the samba bug I was just looking at)
=== jjesse_ is now known as jjesse
[20:11] <zul> jdstrand: ah sweet
[20:11] <jdstrand> kees, zul: basically, run 'sudo ./test-samba.py tmpserve -v', then mount the share on your client, do stuff, umount, exit
[20:31] <kees> jdstrand: sweet
=== erichammon1 is now known as erichammond
[21:26] <lukehasnoname> Where is the root FTP folder by default in Ubuntu?
=== emgent is now known as emgent`
[21:30] <jetole> hey guys, I have a bit of a weird DNS situation, when I look up a name with "host" command on one server, it will return the data but then it times out trying to query that host, not sure why it is trying to query that host
[21:31] <jetole> one moment, lemme give an example
[21:33] <jetole> http://pastebin.org/45648
[21:34] <jetole> It is not the DNS server btw, this happened as well on out of office DNS server on both AT&T and OpenDNS
[21:36] <jetole> I may be wrong, my desktop system does the same thing, but I am not sure why
=== RoAk is now known as RoAkSoAx
[21:56] <lukehasnoname> jetole: no idea, sorry
[21:56] <lukehasnoname> I know it sucks being ignored.
[21:59] <ScottK> jetole: I guess I'd use tcpdump or wireshark to see what's happening from your box to the router and make sure the problem is upstream of you.
[22:04] <lukehasnoname> "gobolinux sounds like a pokemon"
[22:04] <lukehasnoname> -quote'd
[23:25] <Colin__> I have three ethernet connections, 1 is for the LAN, the other two are for separate dsl lines... Everything was working fine with 1 internet connection, but I just plugged in the second and it isn't getting an IP address
=== RoAk is now known as RoAKSoAx
=== RoAKSoAx is now known as RoAkSoAx
[23:31] <owh> So, I got a new kernel update yesterday, 2.6.22-15, so now vmware doesn't work any more and no kernel modules for it yet. How do I get off this bandwagon? My hardware doesn't have a VT CPU, so I cannot use kvm. Any suggestions?
[23:33] <sommer> owh: hardware upgrade ?
[23:33] <owh> If you send the cash, I'll happily go shopping sommer :)
[23:33] <sommer> heh, just a suggestion :)
[23:34] <owh> Unfortunately, there are many places where VT cpu's don't exist, but a need for virtualisation does :(
[23:35] <owh> So, seriously, what options do I have?
[23:35] <owh> This keeps happening and it's stopped me from upgrading to Hardy in several places.
[23:35] <sommer> owh: maybe another virtualization package xen, qemu+kqemu, virtaulbox, etc... I've only tried qemu and kvm myself
[23:38] <owh> There appear to be lots of options in that field. It's why I stayed with vmware for so long. I cannot even begin to make an assessment how they compare. I'd love to use the Ubuntu "default/preferred", but AFAIK that's only kvm - or am I mistaken?
[23:39]  * owh starts looking for a wiki page that compares them against each other.
[23:39] <sommer> owh: yep kvm is preferred, but I see it as the same argument as postfix v. exim4, it's really a matter of preference and environment
[23:40] <owh> Well, unless you know something that I don't, I cannot run kvm until I have a VT enabled CPU, is that correct?
[23:40] <sommer> owh: yeppers, that's correct
[23:40] <sommer> wierd someone asked that earlier today :)
[23:41]  * owh cannot imagine swapping out the CPU on a ThinkPad.
=== macd_ is now known as macd
[23:41] <hads> You can get VMWare going on Hardy if you need.
[23:41] <sommer> heh, probably just some screws and a fan
[23:41] <sommer> what's the worste that could happen?
[23:42] <owh> sommer: I end up spending $2000 on a new laptop for a $100 cpu upgrade?
[23:42] <sommer> owh: ooooohhhh, ya there's that
[23:42] <owh> hads: Yeah, but that just means making the kernel modules myself, next thing I'll be running gentoo, no thanks.
[23:43] <hads> hah, it's not that big of a deal
[23:44] <owh> hads: No, but it's all about maintenance, not about one specific laptop today. What I run here also runs on servers around the planet, it matters.
[23:45] <hads> OK
[23:46] <owh> hads: If there was an automagic method to do this, that was supported, that compiled into packages that were installed, then we might have something that's workable, but my experience with vmware tells me otherwise.
[23:46] <hads> OK
[23:56] <owh> Hmm, I'm just looking through my apt-cache and noticing that not only does vmware not have a current kernel module, neither does virtualbox, haven't checked the rest yet, but that's just plain wrong. How can you release a new kernel module without the rest?