[10:08] <Belutz> @schedule jakarta
[10:08] <jsgotangco> oh there is a meeting today?
[10:09] <Belutz> jsgotangco, yup
[10:09] <jsgotangco> cool :)
[10:09] <Belutz> jsgotangco, shall we move the meeting to Plurk? :)
[10:09] <jsgotangco> lol
[10:09] <Belutz> lol
[10:23] <Rafik> @now
[11:54]  * elky lurks around for about 6 minutes...
[11:56] <zarul> e-jat
[11:57] <amachu_> Belutz: elky: TheMuso: persia: lifeless: Hi
[11:57] <TheMuso> Greetings./
[11:57] <persia> Good evening
[11:58] <Belutz> amachu, hi
[11:59] <elky> i suppose i should find the agenda page...
[11:59] <amachu_> hello every body
[11:59] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
[11:59] <nbliang> hi
[11:59] <TheMuso> elky: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania?highlight=%28oceania%29
[12:00] <elky> thanks :)
[12:00] <amachu_> here we go
[12:00] <amachu_> Welcome every body to this meeting of Asia Oceania Membership Council
[12:01] <e-jat> zarul, yes
[12:01] <e-jat> evening all ..
[12:01] <amachu_> Shall we start calling participants as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
[12:01] <nbliang> ready
[12:01] <zarul> mypapit?
[12:01] <e-jat> zarul, im not sure ..
[12:01] <zarul> he is not applying?
[12:02] <amachu_> nbliang: Please introduce yourself to the Board, explaing your activities
[12:02] <nbliang> ok
[12:02] <nbliang> Hi, I am Nicholas Ng from Malaysia. I am an evangelist and supporter for Ubuntu and actively involved in educating and promoting the usage of Ubuntu to public, organizations, businesses and government
[12:02] <e-jat> maybe he did not notice bout the meeting
[12:02] <nbliang> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/nbliang [wiki] & https://launchpad.net/~nbliang [launchpad]
[12:03] <nbliang> I am also the co-founder and a committee member of Kuching Open Source Community (http://www.kuchingosc.org/) where we introduce, promote and support Ubuntu to public around Sarawak, mainly in Kuching, Malaysia
[12:03] <zarul> welcome BuffaloSoldier
[12:03] <e-jat> welcome BuffaloSoldier
[12:03] <nbliang> I have been involved with Ubuntu for few years now and do contribute as much as I could during my free or spare time. My contributions includes (1) translation via Launchpad for Malay language, (2) promoting & supporting Ubuntu usage in Malaysia, especially in Sarawak by giving talks, demonstration and installation and so forth. You can see my contribution list from my Launchpad (https://launchpad
[12:03] <nbliang> .net/~nbliang/+participation)
[12:03] <jsgotangco> hi :)
[12:03] <nbliang> https://launchpad.net/~nbliang/+participation
[12:04] <Belutz> jsgotangco, hi :)
[12:04] <nbliang> also a member of Malaysia Ubuntu Team
[12:04] <nbliang> ubuntu-my
[12:04]  * BuffaloSoldier here to give my support to nbliang 
[12:04] <nbliang> thanks BuffaloSoldier
[12:05] <elky> nbliang you seem very active. do you hold events often?
[12:05] <zarul> +1 from me
[12:05] <zarul> he has been with ubuntu Malaysia since day 1
[12:05] <amachu_> nbliang: is that all you have to say, and shall we take it for questions now?
[12:05] <zarul> and should already become a member years ago
[12:05] <nbliang> yes, i am ready for question
[12:05] <Belutz> nbliang, what would you do if you become an ubuntu member?
[12:05] <nbliang> i actually applied long time ago, but not my turn until last meeting, but i am sick
[12:05] <elky> can cheer squads please wait until introductions and questions are done? thanks :)
[12:05] <TheMuso> nbliang: Has there been much female interest in Open Source/Linux in your area?
[12:06] <nbliang> well, i will continue my support and providing help to public especially around my area
[12:06] <nbliang> will follow the Ubuntu CoC as well as contribute as much as I can to Ubuntu and the community
[12:06] <lifeless> hi, I'm here, but really tired; I'm going to pass on this meeting - sorry.
[12:06] <lifeless> are we quorate without me?
[12:07] <elky> i believe so, lifeless. go rest :)
[12:07] <Belutz> lifeless, I think it's ok, you should have to rest
[12:07]  * elky hugs lifeless
[12:07] <lifeless> k, later all
[12:07] <nbliang> currently I am in the talk with local OEM to distribute Ubuntu in the PC
[12:07] <TheMuso> nbliang: Ok let me put it another way. What are you doing to get females interested in free/Open Source Software?
[12:07] <Belutz> nbliang, do you cooperating with the member from KL ?
[12:07] <nbliang> and in process of converting a local company into using Ubuntu
[12:07] <amachu_> nbliang: Malasian Team yet to become Approve LoCo Team?
[12:08] <elky> whoa... one question at a time!
[12:08] <nbliang> to get more females coz nowadays most females are afraid of Linux
[12:08] <amachu_> nbliang: a local company? can you be specific
[12:08] <nbliang> ubunu-my not yet Approved LoCo Team
[12:08]  * elky raises an eyebrow
[12:08] <nbliang> that's what we going to do after become member
[12:08] <e-jat> nbliang, we may approach females in loco university ..
[12:09] <nbliang> ok, I am in process of converting a local company "Balka Approach Sdn Bhd"  to fully using Ubuntu as their hardware is quite old and they do not want to spent much $$ on updating the machines
[12:09] <nbliang> e-jat: yes
[12:10] <nbliang> Also, my friend's company (forgot the company name) is producing new PC (low cost) and seeking for the OS, so I am in talk with them to use Ubuntu
[12:10] <nbliang> my local community (www.kuchingosc.org) will be providing supports on it as well
[12:10] <amachu_> nbliang: are you with Ubuntu Malaysia since its inception?
[12:10] <Belutz> nbliang, is that the local vendor you mentioned in your wiki?
[12:11] <e-jat> previously when ubuntu-my doing activity in 1 of university .. got +ve feedback from the students especially the females
[12:11] <nbliang> I am with Ubuntu Malaysia since day 1
[12:11] <amachu_> nbliang: thats good :-)
[12:11] <nbliang> yes, the local vendors r in my wiki, except that not much info in there yet as i still in talk with them
[12:12] <nbliang> i also involve with local university at East Malaysia in providing training, talk and seminar to their staff and student
[12:12] <nbliang> can see from my wiki page
[12:12] <Belutz> nbliang, are you also involved in development of Embun?
[12:12] <TheMuso> Yes, your wiki page is very well done, and goes into some great detail IMO.
[12:13] <TheMuso> (in my opinion)
[12:13] <nbliang> my (and few other ubuntu-my members) next move will be getting approval for ubuntu-my to be approved LoCo Team
[12:13] <nbliang> Belutz: not really, but i do give comments and suggestion
[12:13] <amachu_> nbliang: what difficulty have you faced with people of Malasia in switching over to Ubuntu or GNU/ Linux?
[12:13] <nbliang> i have mails between them
[12:14] <nbliang> amachu_: hardware support
[12:14] <nbliang> and well as lack of Linux knowledge
[12:15] <nbliang> also, found out that those r well in Linux tend to not share their knowledge to others at my area
[12:15] <elky> so guys are also scared?
[12:15] <nbliang> East Malaysia
[12:15] <elky> of linux, that is?
[12:15] <nbliang> nope, Linux is fun and challenging
[12:15] <purserj> hi nbliang, you involved with myoss?
[12:15] <nbliang> although i am not that techie on it but i provide good training and guidance on what i know
[12:16] <nbliang> i am in myoss as well
[12:16] <e-jat> currently me and ubuntu-my loco team trying to approach the ministry of education for students awareness about linux especially ubuntu
[12:16] <purserj> so you'd know kauru and co :)
[12:16] <Belutz> nbliang, have you held an ubuntu release party in kuching?
[12:16] <nbliang> yes i know kaeru
[12:16] <zarul> e-jat cool down
[12:16] <purserj> cool
[12:16] <zarul> :)
[12:16] <e-jat> zarul, sorry ..
[12:16] <nbliang> he is with our government OSCC, open source competency centre
[12:17] <purserj> nbliang: yeah I chat with him from time to time
[12:17] <purserj> over in iosn
[12:17] <nbliang> Belutz: yes we did, if not mistaken is for 7.10
[12:17] <nbliang> purserj: :)
[12:17]  * elky notes that we need to pass a judgement. already 17 minutes gone
[12:17] <nbliang> Belutz: not a big party as most of them not familiar with it yet
[12:18] <Belutz> nbliang, you got +1 from me
[12:18] <zarul> the longest Q & A I ever see ... hehe
[12:18] <nbliang> Belutz: tq
[12:18] <zarul> +1 from me
[12:18] <nbliang> zarul: tq
[12:18] <Belutz> hope with ubuntu membership you can keep spreading the OSS spirit in Malaysia
[12:18] <nbliang> ofcoz i will
[12:18] <jsgotangco> nbliang: you know colin charles too?
[12:19] <nbliang> and going to get ubuntu-my approved as LoCo Team as well
[12:19] <nbliang> i know him through e-mail, blog, etc but not personnaly
[12:19] <nbliang> he is with MySQL atm
[12:20] <amachu__> Ooof! I lost..
[12:20] <amachu__> nbliang: how deep the transaltion contribution you people do reach people?
[12:20] <nbliang> amachu_: still a lot to do
[12:20] <nbliang> and i am encouraging more people from MY to do the translation so that we can have Malay version of Ubuntu someday
[12:20] <elky> i must admit i'm personally torn. while you seem to be doing good work, your response to TheMuso's question about women is very disheartening, as women are no more scared of linux than men are.
[12:20] <amachu__> just to have a feeling! how do people feel in malaysia when they see Ubuntu in their language
[12:21] <nbliang> Embun is using the Malay version, but due to not complete translation, so part of it still in EN
[12:21] <amachu__> elky: :-)
[12:21] <zarul> elky: it depends on the places and the level of exposure of linux OS
[12:21] <nbliang> elky: i mean woman around my area
[12:22] <nbliang> well, personally, i talk to few of them about it, but they said English is better because the translation of EN to MY may lead to different meaning
[12:22] <jsgotangco> i agree
[12:22] <amachu__> nbliang: ok. are there people here to suppport you?
[12:22] <nbliang> eg. the word "Burn" to burn a CD is hard to translate to correct meaning in MY
[12:22] <nbliang> zarul
[12:23] <nbliang> BuffaloSoldier:
[12:23] <nbliang> e-jat:
[12:23] <nbliang> they have been "huh hah" from the beginning
[12:23] <nbliang> and all the participants are from ubuntu-my
[12:23] <nbliang> :)
[12:24] <nbliang> and we know each other
[12:24] <amachu__> zarul: BuffaloSoldier: e-jat: can we know you all by Name
[12:24] <amachu__> nbliang: ya.. ya.. witnessing them :-)
[12:24] <nbliang> eerr... r they off?
[12:24] <e-jat> amachu_, hi my name is Khairul Aizat Kamarudzzaman
[12:24] <e-jat> nbliang, im still here ..
[12:24] <zarul> amachu_ I ma the founder of Ubuntu-my and BuffaloSoldier is in ubuntu forum team...
[12:25] <zarul> zarul shahrin is my full name
[12:25] <nbliang> e-jat: good, coz u will be next :)
[12:25] <zarul> I am through mibbit..
[12:25] <zarul> sorry for that..
[12:25] <zarul> and just as side note
[12:25] <zarul> nbliang and ejat will be taking over the leadership of Ubuntu-my
[12:25] <elky> nbliang, i'm going to give you a +1, but i really hope you take the time to be less dismissive of women in IT in the future and dont dismiss them as 'scared'.
[12:25]  * Belutz agree with elky 
[12:26] <nbliang> elky: that's will be one of my task to built confident for woman at my area
[12:26] <zarul> I think we are getting too long here
[12:26]  * TheMuso agrees also, +1 from me also.
[12:26] <elky> because to be quite frank, if guys were not scared of linux either, there'd be alot more using it.
[12:26] <e-jat> elky, we won't .. and we'll try out best to get them(females@women) get involve
[12:26] <jsgotangco> maybe for lack of a better word
[12:26] <nbliang> elky: it's not targetted to all woman, just that most of the girls i met never tried Linux
[12:27] <nbliang> they know about it, but don't want to try it
[12:27] <elky> nbliang, no males in my family use linux. all the women in my family do. the males dont want to try it.
[12:27] <persia> +1 from me for advocacy, supporting comments, and expectation of new tasks taken to heart
[12:27] <nbliang> elky: wow, i hope most MY girls are like that too
[12:28] <nbliang> but my wife started to like it now
[12:28] <nbliang> :)
[12:28] <elky> nbliang, you'll be pleasantly surprised :)
[12:28] <BuffaloSoldier> hi all.. sorry if my attention span is really short today.. still at the office :) anyway, I'm Firdaus bin Aziz
[12:28] <nbliang> persia: tq
[12:28] <nbliang> elky: tq
[12:28] <zarul> sorry, but if you guys don't mind.. I would like to suggest to the board... can we vote and move to the next candidate?
[12:29] <TheMuso> We are doing so now.
[12:29] <BuffaloSoldier> +1 for nbliang
[12:29] <nbliang> sorry guys, cause of me, the meeting is dragging up
[12:29] <e-jat> +1 for nbliang
[12:29] <zarul> +1 for nbliang
[12:29] <nbliang> BuffaloSoldier: tq
[12:29] <nbliang> e-jat: tq
[12:29] <nbliang> zarul: tq
[12:29] <persia> It tends to help the voting be clear when only board members vote.
[12:29] <elky> hmm, i'll sift back through all the chatter for the votes...
[12:30] <TheMuso> In case it was missed earlier, +1 from me.
[12:30] <Belutz> It was +1 from me too
[12:30] <nbliang> TheMuso: tq
[12:30] <nbliang> Belutz: tq
[12:30] <nbliang> :p
[12:31] <nbliang> have been waiting for few months to get the membership
[12:31] <nbliang> waiting is hard
[12:31] <amachu123> +1 from me for nbliang
[12:31] <elky> persia, i agree
[12:31] <amachu123> :-)
[12:31] <persia> I count five, and missing from lifeless and zakame
[12:31] <elky> persia, same
[12:31] <Belutz> lifeless is having his rest
[12:32] <persia> amachu: Are you satisfied with quorum?
[12:32] <nbliang> so, am i approved?
[12:32] <Belutz> so I think nbliang is approved to be an Ubuntu member
[12:32] <nbliang> tq guys / girls
[12:32] <nbliang> elky: will not let u down in trying to convert all the girls' mind in my area
[12:33] <nbliang> hope more of them r like u
[12:33] <elky> nbliang, good to hear :)
[12:33] <amachu123> ok we will move further
[12:33] <elky> amachu123, good idea
[12:33] <nbliang> again, tq to all
[12:33] <amachu123> apogee ?
[12:33] <Belutz> Congratulations nbliang
[12:33] <nbliang> Belutz: tq
[12:34] <zarul> e-jat:  where is he?
[12:34] <e-jat> im here ..
[12:34] <zarul> I mean apogee
[12:34] <nbliang> can't contact him though
[12:34] <e-jat> i've already remind him through sms ..
[12:35] <e-jat> i didnt get replied from him ..
[12:35] <elky> move on to the next one, we can deal with him when/if he comes
[12:35]  * Belutz agree with elky 
[12:36]  * TheMuso agrees.
[12:36] <elky> err...
[12:36] <elky> that person seems absent too
[12:36] <nbliang> fenris = e-jat
[12:36] <Belutz> i think fenris == e-jat
[12:36] <nbliang> yes he is
[12:36] <e-jat> sorry ...
[12:36] <e-jat> is my nick confusing
[12:36] <TheMuso> e-jat is mentioned on his wiki page.
[12:37] <elky> i was reading the meeting agenda, where his nick is allegedly fenris.... :Þ
[12:37] <e-jat> elky, it was in webchat ... in here ... thats nick belong to others .
[12:37] <TheMuso> elky: Yeah I know, but I'm reading the wiki page. :)
[12:37] <e-jat> :(
[12:38] <e-jat> thanks thekorn
[12:38] <elky> TheMuso, i missed that bit :(
[12:38] <persia> e-jat: It's a good idea to strive for a consistent nick, so we can know who you are, and better see everything.
[12:38] <e-jat> TheMuso,
[12:38]  * Belutz will be right back for 10 minutes, need to do my prayer
[12:38] <e-jat> persia, in here ill use e-jat
[12:38] <e-jat> u mean .. for my wiki n launchpad ?
[12:39] <persia> e-jat: As a goal, yes.  For now, it's not important.
[12:39] <elky> ok, lets keep this discussion streamlined for Belutz's sake. e-jat would you like to give a quick explanation of yourself? :)
[12:39] <e-jat> Hi, I am Khairul Aizat Kamarudzzaman from Malaysia. I am IT exec and supporter for Ubuntu and actively involved in educating and promoting the usage of Ubuntu to public, organizations, businesses and government
[12:40]  * elky hands amachu_ a voucher for one internet.
[12:40] <e-jat> my wiki page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/fenris
[12:40] <amachu_> elky: :-)
[12:40] <e-jat> my launchpad, https://launchpad.net/~mohdfenris
[12:41] <e-jat> my participant & contribution : https://launchpad.net/~mohdfenris/+participation
[12:41] <e-jat> Currently i was assign to manage Ubuntu Malaysia Website, Forums & Activity
[12:41] <amachu_> e-jat: how long have you been doing this?
[12:42] <nbliang> yah, e-jat is one of the members to manage the website, forum & activity
[12:42] <e-jat> oct 2007
[12:42] <elky> e-jat, what is one activity you've done recently that you can describe for us?
[12:42] <e-jat> since the domain up back
[12:43] <e-jat> recently ... i spreading the knowledge to my big familys, friends and government officer
[12:43] <amachu_> e-jat: government officer?
[12:43] <amachu_> be specific
[12:44] <e-jat> it officer in Ministry of education MY and their CIO
[12:44] <elky> cool! what about expos or conferences, do you do much at those?
[12:44] <e-jat> then i planning with them to organize event with the loco schools n university & college
[12:45]  * Belutz is back
[12:45] <e-jat> elky, actually the cio was my dad ..
[12:45] <nbliang> he is quite active in the ubuntu-my forum
[12:45] <elky> e-jat, details details ;)
[12:45] <e-jat> so we always having discussion at home if he having problems
[12:46] <e-jat> details for the event : previously we held an event at UiTM
[12:46] <amachu_> e-jat: beyond that?
[12:46] <elky> e-jat, what part of malaysia are you in?
[12:46] <e-jat> elky, im in KL
[12:46] <e-jat> kuala lumpur ..
[12:47] <e-jat> amachu_, im also  Running & manage Ubuntu Destkop & Server for internal office for task/working environment
[12:47] <elky> aha. you might know someone who wants to help the singapore team get on their feet?
[12:47] <nbliang> e-jat also help in organizing the ubuntu-my activities
[12:47] <e-jat> in my company were im working ..
[12:47] <e-jat> such as samba n ldap using ubuntu server
[12:47] <zarul> elky: singapore and KL is very far away
[12:47] <e-jat> and proposing to my client
[12:47] <zarul> unless they are online
[12:48] <e-jat> using ubuntu for server solutions
[12:48] <Belutz> yup i haven't heard a thing from singapore team
[12:48] <elky> zarul, i know that. but KL is quite better connected than other parts of malaysia ;)
[12:48] <nbliang> elky: SG team? i wll be going to SG end of this month, maybe can meet with them, but still depend on my schedule
[12:48] <e-jat> im also
[12:49] <Belutz> e-jat, what will you do if you get an ubuntu membership?
[12:49] <elky> nbliang, #ubuntu-sg has had e-jat hiding in there for a few days now ;)
[12:49] <elky> this is why i asked him
[12:49] <e-jat> elky, i was waiting to know the SG loco team
[12:49] <nbliang> i see, will talk to e-jat on that
[12:50] <e-jat> Belutz, Help Ubuntu community to develop better Operating System in order to give end user the best experience.
[12:50] <elky> e-jat, they are missing any active people unfortunately. the irc council is waiting for a recipient to give the channel to
[12:50] <Belutz> e-jat, also a regular person in #ubuntu-id :)
[12:50] <e-jat> hope to see 50% of Malaysian use linux as main Operating System.
[12:50] <nbliang> e-jat: or more
[12:50] <e-jat> esspecially in primary n 2ndary schools
[12:51] <elky> Belutz, the South East Asia teams do alot of work together then?
[12:51] <Belutz> e-jat, what do you think about ubuntu-my should malaysia and sarawak have different team or not?
[12:51] <e-jat> Belutz, 1 team ..
[12:51] <Belutz> elky, not yet, but i have been chatting with e-jat since a long time
[12:52] <nbliang> Belutz: although we r separated by South China Sea, but we can work until 1 team
[12:52] <e-jat> elky, but we plan to do ..
[12:52] <e-jat> within ID , MY and SG
[12:52] <elky> excellent. inter-team cooperation always helps alot
[12:52] <Belutz> it's not easy to manage a lot of islans in Indonesia :(
[12:52] <Belutz> s/islans/islands
[12:52] <zarul> Belutz, ubuntu-my will remain one
[12:52] <zarul> with 2 leaders
[12:52] <zarul> one will be managing Sabah/Sarawak
[12:53] <Belutz> zarul, that would be a bad idea in my opinion
[12:53] <zarul> and the other person in Peninsular
[12:53] <zarul> and anything that needs a whole team decision
[12:53] <zarul> the two leaders will have to talk with each other
[12:53] <Belutz> zarul, we'll discuss that later
[12:53] <zarul> ok
[12:53] <amachu_> Belutz: we are deviating
[12:53] <amachu_> :-)
[12:53] <nbliang> actually not leader in ubuntu-my, but leader to manage the area
[12:53] <Belutz> amachu_, yes :)
[12:53] <zarul> amachu I agreed
[12:54] <elky> ok, i think it's time to vote
[12:54] <nbliang> can i vote? +1 for e-jat
[12:54] <elky> (please only council members, so we dont get lost!)
[12:54] <Belutz> one more question from me
[12:54] <elky> Belutz, sure?
[12:54] <Belutz> e-jat, how many ubuntu events have you held in KL ?
[12:54] <amachu_> e-jat: i felt you wiki should have reflected more
[12:55] <amachu_> nbliang: its upto the Board :-)
[12:55] <TheMuso> amachu_: I agree.
[12:55] <e-jat> Belutz, since im quite new to my community
[12:55] <nbliang> hehee... k, just wantd to give support to my team
[12:55] <e-jat> just 1 : http://www.flickr.com/photos/sumardi/sets/72157603969964943/ some photo
[12:56] <amachu_> nbliang: i understand
[12:56] <e-jat> plan to have more in da future ..
[12:56] <Belutz> e-jat, how many participants in that event?
[12:56] <e-jat> almost 100+
[12:56] <Belutz> great
[12:57] <e-jat> looks more gals in the event
[12:57] <elky> amachu_, i think he covered what he needed, but some fluffing so we didnt have to go on a click frenzy would have been nice
[12:58]  * Belutz give e-jat +1 for his contributions to ubuntu-my team, looking forward for more events from ubuntu-my :-)
[12:58] <elky> everyone ready to vote?
[12:58] <TheMuso> yep
[12:58] <e-jat> Belutz, tq .. we will .. and if possible we arrange combine my n id ..
[12:59] <elky> *cough* Belutz amachu_ persia TheMuso *cough*?
[12:59] <TheMuso> +1 from me.
[12:59]  * persia can vote
[12:59] <e-jat> TheMuso, tq
[12:59] <persia> Reviewing the log, it's a little tricky to cleanly separate e-jat from ubuntu-my on some of the questions.  I'M voting +1 based on work with forums, website, mailing list, etc.
[12:59] <elky> we can still finish in under an hour if we hurry! :D
[12:59] <e-jat> thanks persia
[12:59] <elky> ewwwww lag!
[12:59] <persia> e-jat: Please do bulk up your wiki page to better show your activities, which otherwise only become clear in discussion and reviewing many websites.
[13:00] <e-jat> persia, thanks for the comment .. yes i will
[13:00] <nbliang> cheers e-jat !!
[13:00] <e-jat> tq nbliang
[13:01] <elky> +1 from me too based on the services and work with his government contact ;)
[13:01] <e-jat> elky, tq
[13:01] <e-jat> im also working close with kaeru as he in OSCC
[13:02]  * Belutz congratulate e-jat 
[13:02] <nbliang> yeah, hope to see entire MY government converted into using FOSS
[13:02] <e-jat> plan to do more ubuntu marketing with OSCC to MY government
[13:03] <amachu__> e-jat: best wishes, and work together will all around you now, to take ubuntu to more people in Malasia
[13:03] <e-jat> thanks amachu_
[13:03] <nbliang> ok then, gtg home fetch my wife. congratulations e-jat !!
[13:03] <e-jat> tq again nbliang
[13:03] <e-jat> nbliang, drive carefully
[13:03] <nbliang> sure do, u too
[13:04] <amachu__> Belutz: elky: TheMuso: persia: lifeless: is that all ?
[13:04] <amachu__> shall we conclude the day's meeting
[13:04] <Belutz> amachu_, I think that is all
[13:04] <TheMuso> I think thats all yes.
[13:04] <amachu__> i should get better internet connectivity next time :-(
[13:05] <persia> I have one minor administrative item
[13:05] <amachu__> persia: yes
[13:05] <elky> persia, which is?
[13:05] <persia> Could we put the time of the next meeting on our wiki page a little more in advance?  I feel like we're not giving potential candidates much notice.
[13:05] <nbliang> persia: agree !!
[13:05] <nbliang> ok, bye
[13:06] <nbliang> again, thanks to all
[13:06] <amachu__> persia: agree. But i do mail participants personally too.
[13:06] <e-jat> agree with elky
[13:06] <amachu__> persia: we should do that
[13:07] <amachu__> any thing else?
[13:07]  * elky cries at the lag
[13:08] <TheMuso> I think thats it.
[13:08] <elky> i think we're done?
[13:08]  * Belutz hugs amachu_, TheMuso, elky, persia and zarul 
[13:09]  * e-jat hugs Belutz amachu_ TheMuso elky persia zarul n all in here
[13:09] <elky> hehe
[13:09] <Belutz> elky, i have a question for you
[13:09] <elky> Belutz, hmm?
[13:09] <Belutz> make it 2 questions
[13:10] <amachu__> fine then. Thank you everyone for participating and best wishes for our new Members nbliang and fenris
[13:10]  * elky refrains from hmm'ing again, as it makes questions multiply :)
[13:10] <Belutz> 1. is there any FOSS events in Australia around October/November ?
[13:10] <e-jat> thanks amachu_
[13:10] <BuffaloSoldier> congrats nbliang and fenris
[13:10] <e-jat> tq BuffaloSoldier
[13:10] <Belutz> 2. why you change from elkbuntu into elky? :-)
[13:11] <amachu__> Belutz: add me also to that question
[13:11] <amachu__> #2
[13:11] <amachu__> ;-)
[13:11] <elky> Belutz, 1. not that i know of, OSDC is early december... 2. each time my bip proxy reconnects to freenode. havent gotten around to fixing it since it's not entirely broken ;)
[13:11] <Belutz> I see :)
[13:12] <Belutz> elky, do you have a link for that OSDC event?
[13:12] <elky> http://osdc.com.au
[13:12] <elky> CFP is until the end of this month
[13:13] <Belutz> elky, thanks for the info
[13:13] <elky> Belutz, no problem
[13:13] <Belutz> elky, we are going to held a World Summit on Open Source next year, I hope you can come :)
[13:14] <elky> Belutz, that'd be cool. what part of next year?
[13:14]  * elky hopes for 'mid'
[13:14]  * e-jat brb ... praying .. 
[13:14] <Belutz> elky, it's around October, so we could have an Ubuntu 9.10 release party too
[13:15] <Belutz> but the time is still tentative
[13:16] <elky> im hoping for Intrepid to be released a day late... so it can be a birthday present for me :Þ
[13:16] <elky> although, the release will likely happen -au 31st anyway
[13:16] <lukehasnoname> elky: It is on my birthday
[13:17] <lukehasnoname> :)
[13:17] <elky> lukehasnoname, no fair.
[13:17]  * elky wants a refund :(
[13:17] <Belutz> hahaha
[13:18]  * Belutz wish to invite sabdfl to come to the event
[13:19] <elky> i'd be hurrying to get a date confirmed asap then
[13:19] <elky> he's a popular fellow for some strange and unbeknown reason
[13:19] <Belutz> elky, I will
[13:22] <e-jat> Belutz, dont want to invite us frm MY :)
[13:23] <Belutz> e-jat, I don't have to invite you, because you have to come
[13:24] <e-jat> waaaa
[13:24] <e-jat> ai have too ??
[13:24] <e-jat> ongkos nya mana ?
[13:25] <Belutz> e-jat, start saving from now :-)
[13:25] <ApOgEE-> hi all
[13:25] <ApOgEE-> hi e-jat
[13:26] <e-jat> hi back
[13:26] <Belutz> ApOgEE-, you are late, the meeting is over
[13:26] <ApOgEE-> i see...
[13:26] <ApOgEE-> i'm workin
[13:27] <e-jat> ApOgEE-, :(
[13:27] <ApOgEE-> it's okay, i'll be here later
[13:27] <ApOgEE-> just got email from nbliang
[13:27]  * Belutz did postponed his work for the meeting lol
[13:27] <e-jat> :)
[13:28] <ApOgEE-> hehehe...
[13:28] <e-jat> ApOgEE-, tadi dpt x sms ??
[13:28] <e-jat> :(
[13:28] <ApOgEE-> ;) anyway, thanks... i'm goin home now
[13:28] <ApOgEE-> lol... aku punya henset mana da
[13:29] <ApOgEE-> owh
[13:29] <ApOgEE-> ya... ya... e-jat , ada
[13:29] <ApOgEE-> erk... 6:30 ka?
[13:29] <e-jat> ApOgEE-, owh .. wheres ya hphone ?
[13:29] <ApOgEE-> aiseh
[13:29] <e-jat> 7
[13:30] <ApOgEE-> i miss placed my hp
[13:30] <ApOgEE-> due to my extremely busy day
[13:30] <ApOgEE-> sorry everyone
[13:30] <e-jat> welcome sid
[13:30] <sid> oo
[13:34] <zarul> ok
[13:34] <zarul> I will leave now
[13:34] <zarul> congrat to nbliang and e-jat all the best for you guys
[13:34] <zarul> I will send an email soon
[13:34] <e-jat> thanks zarul
[13:34] <zarul> no prob
[13:42]  * elky notes that one should not be rejected from other regional councils just because they're more convenient. choose the one that best suits your schedule.
[15:11]  * lukehasnoname joined #ubuntu-meeting
[15:58] <lukehasnoname> hm
[15:58] <lukehasnoname> a few people missing
[15:59] <lukehasnoname> @schedule
[15:59] <soren> lukehasnoname: It's not 4 o'clock yet.
[15:59] <zul> its not quite 15:00 yet
[15:59] <soren> Er.. Right, 3 o'clock.
[16:00] <soren> It is now, though.
[16:00] <lukehasnoname> it's 9:59 CST here
[16:00] <ivoks> :)
[16:00] <lukehasnoname> ya
[16:00] <ivoks> hi all
[16:00] <nijaba> o/
[16:00] <Koon> \o
[16:00] <sommer> o//
[16:01] <ivoks> 7o_
[16:01] <lukehasnoname> mathiaz: ping
[16:01] <GunbladeIV> O.o
[16:01] <dholbach> I didn't know the server team was such a party crowd :)
[16:02] <Koon> dholbach: party on !
[16:02] <dholbach> hehe
[16:02] <mathiaz> hiay folks
[16:02] <kraut> hi
[16:02] <ivoks> an ipv6 guy! :D
[16:02] <nijaba> mathiaz: !!!
[16:02] <kraut> ivoks: yep, my NS aren't working correctly ;)
[16:02] <mathiaz> let's get started
[16:02] <kraut> is there any agenda online?
[16:03] <zul> hello
[16:03] <ivoks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:03] <lukehasnoname> wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:03] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:03] <lukehasnoname> heh
[16:03] <mathiaz> meh - no Mootbot
[16:03] <ivoks> damn robots
[16:03] <kraut> lukehasnoname: thanks
[16:03] <mathiaz> so today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:04] <mathiaz> last week meeting minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080617
[16:04] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ebox and augeas
[16:05] <mathiaz> so we had some discussion about augeas and ebox
[16:05] <mathiaz> I sent an email to the ebox developers about this issue
[16:05] <mathiaz> https://lists.warp.es/pipermail/ebox-devel/2008-June/000376.html
[16:06] <mathiaz> there has been some discussion about this and the ebox developers seem open to the idea
[16:06] <mathiaz> they've started to look into using augeas and experiment with it
[16:06] <mathiaz> on a related note, nxvl has packaged augeas for ubuntu
[16:07]  * nealmcb cheers
[16:07] <mathiaz> http://nvalcarcel.aureal.com.pe/?p=196
[16:07] <mathiaz> he uploaded it to REVU and is waiting for feedback - http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=augeas
[16:08] <mathiaz> so I think that all I have to report from the ebox front
[16:09]  * lukehasnoname claps
[16:10] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] text browser on the server cd
[16:10] <mathiaz> so I sent a reply to the thread with the official decision from the server meeting
[16:10] <mathiaz> and the discussion is still going on - also it turned into a broader subject
[16:11] <mathiaz> but I don't think there anything more to say in this meeting about it.
[16:11] <lukehasnoname> well
[16:11] <mathiaz> anyone wants to add something wrt to last week meeting ?
[16:11] <nealmcb> well it seemed to me to relate well to scottk's blueprint
[16:12] <lukehasnoname> nealmcb: pretty close, ya
[16:12] <lukehasnoname> One idea is making custom ISOs from a javascript web-app
[16:12] <mathiaz> nealmcb: right - so I'd suggest to update the blueprint with ideas that emerged during the thread
[16:12]  * nijaba not sure FAI is the right approach though, if we are talking about the same blueprint
[16:13] <mathiaz> and continue the discussion on the blueprint
[16:13] <mathiaz> nijaba: we're talking about this blueprint
[16:13] <nealmcb> do we have consensus that it should be easy for folks to either install some sort of bare-bones server, or a comfortable more friendly server
[16:13] <lukehasnoname> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2008-June/001812.html
[16:13] <lukehasnoname> nealmcb: Looks like it from the ML
[16:13] <mathiaz> nealmcb: from what I read from the thread, it seems so
[16:14] <ivoks> bare-bone server is waporware...
[16:14] <mathiaz> nealmcb: that may be included in the blueprint rationale
[16:14] <mathiaz> nealmcb: to explain the reason for doing so
[16:14] <nealmcb> ivoks: ?
[16:14] <kirkland> mathiaz: i think it's essential that Ubuntu provide a mechanism for a bare minimal CLI-only system
[16:15] <kirkland> mathiaz: I say Ubuntu in that it may or may not be the Server Team, but I think it would suit well for our team to provide that sort of install
[16:15] <ivoks> nealmcb: there will always be people considering it not so bare as it should be; just ignore me
[16:15] <mathiaz> kirkland: agreed - I like to the approach of installing a bare-system and then having a way to turn it into a specific type of machine
[16:16] <nealmcb> I think the question is how bare bare is...  there are lots of utilities in unix that are helpful but not essential
[16:16] <kirkland> mathiaz: right...  and if that's JEOS->real hardware, or Alternate CD, or mini.iso+CLI ...  whatever
[16:16] <ivoks> there can't be bare bone server; there can be bare bone linux system
[16:16] <nealmcb> just give 'em busybox :)
[16:16] <mathiaz> kirkland: right - but at least we start to have some general idea about where we'd like to head for
[16:16] <ivoks> so, as i agree with kirkland; this should be ubuntu project, not ubuntu server project
[16:16] <kirkland> nealmcb: if it can run apt-get and connect to the network, it's minimal enough for me
[16:17] <mathiaz> ok - let's move on
[16:17] <nealmcb> ivoks: in the sense that you can give them a platform for putting their own services on it, with a good kernel etc, you can give them a jeos with hardware support and let them build from there
[16:17] <soren> kirkland: apt-get? Sheesh! What's wrong with telnet+ar+tar+gzip?
[16:17] <lukehasnoname> soren: ha
[16:17] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Relocation of web pages from /var/www/ to /srv/www/ in future releases
[16:17] <lukehasnoname> Ah, yes
[16:17] <mathiaz> lukehasnoname: why ?
[16:18] <soren> *blink*
[16:18] <kirkland> ???
[16:18] <soren> Why, oh why?
[16:18] <lukehasnoname> >_>
[16:18] <lukehasnoname> ok
[16:18] <zul> mathiaz: no no no no no
[16:18] <ivoks> let's all agree - no
[16:18] <kraut> may i say something to that?
[16:18] <nealmcb> soren: :)
[16:18] <sommer> seems like that would cause issues
[16:18] <lukehasnoname> Simply consider it, though I know chances are slim. But it would conform much better to logic and the FHS if we did
[16:18]  * kraut would prefer that idea and lean the directory hierachie completly to FHS
[16:18] <kraut> (FHS: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.pdf)
[16:18] <lukehasnoname> same with mysql and ftp
[16:19] <lukehasnoname> I've spoken with some people who agree on principle
[16:19] <kraut> AOL
[16:19] <lukehasnoname> it's up to you guys to put it into practice... let me very quickly grab a quote
[16:19]  * nealmcb always puts server stuff in /srv - what would the impacts be?
[16:19] <kraut> many people would cry after the change, but after everybody knows the "issue", it would be much better
[16:19] <lukehasnoname>  /srv contains site-specific data which is served by this system.
[16:19] <kraut> and FHS is just the best standard i think
[16:19] <lukehasnoname>  /var contains variable data files. This includes spool directories and files, administrative and logging data, and transient and temporary files.
[16:20] <lukehasnoname> those are from the FHS
[16:20] <ivoks> ahm...
[16:20] <nealmcb> and what do other distros do?
[16:20] <lukehasnoname> If you read the page kraut linked to, just the two paragraphs on those two dirs, you'll see the logic I'm looking at.
[16:20] <sommer> nealmcb: /var/www/*
[16:20] <kraut> nealmcb: redhat and suse does the same
[16:20] <nijaba> Suse - /srv
[16:20] <ivoks> 'Therefore, no program should rely on a specific subdirectory structure of /srv existing or data necessarily being stored in /srv.'
[16:20] <kirkland> nealmcb: RH is /var/www/html
[16:21] <zul> gentoo is /srv if I remember correctly but they dont count ;)
[16:21] <kraut> ah, sorry, redhat uses /var/www/html
[16:21] <kraut> blame on me, i've just watched it out :)
[16:21] <lukehasnoname> ivoks: That is talking cross -platform, but from an Ubuntu perspective, it would be much more logical to have static web files in its own directory, in a different area from logs
[16:21] <lukehasnoname> zul:  aw
[16:21] <kraut> i'm a friend of standards and best practices and FHS is at the moment the best choice.
[16:21]  * soren points at ivoks
[16:22] <kraut> i'm out. need to work. just highlight me.
[16:22] <lukehasnoname> kraut:  thanks.
[16:22] <soren> kraut: Certainly. And the FHS itself says why it's a bad idea, as ivoks pointed out.
[16:22] <emgent> hello.
[16:22] <emgent> @schedule rome
[16:23] <lukehasnoname> brb
[16:23] <lukehasnoname> think about it
[16:23] <zul> I dont agree with this at all besides this should really be done in debian
[16:24]  * sommer agrees with zul
[16:24] <ivoks> there are some benefits of change, but are they so big to really do it?
[16:24] <lukehasnoname> zul: I can see your debian argument
[16:24]  * ivoks agrees with zul and soren 
[16:24]  * sommer also agrees with ivoks 
[16:24] <nealmcb> has debian discussed it?
[16:24] <kraut> FHS: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.pdf - Point: 3.16.1. Purpose
[16:24] <mathiaz>  /srv seems to be targeted at site customization, ie the local sysadmin is reponsible for figuring out the layout - as the package maintainers, we can default to /var/ww
[16:24] <soren> Even if this was a good idea (which I don't think it is), it would have to be an *extremely* good idea to justify the horror of maintaining a delta for each and every debian package that ships stuff in /var/Www
[16:25] <ivoks> i mean... there's a lot of packages, we would have huge delta just cause of location change
[16:25] <mathiaz> there are a lot of packages that relay on /var/www and also common knowledge
[16:25] <kraut> soren: so pointing to that, it would be a good idea to use /srv/<protocol>, for example /srv/www
[16:25] <lukehasnoname> So the consensus is: If it were ever to happen, run it through deb?
[16:25] <soren> kraut: "that"?
[16:25] <mathiaz> it's not fundamitally wrong to use /var/www
[16:25] <kraut> soren: why to use /srv/www instead of /var/www
[16:26] <lukehasnoname> I'm also the guy who thinks that /usr is redundant
[16:26] <zul> its just a nightmare to maintain from a developers point of view
[16:26] <ivoks> lukehasnoname: if debian changes it, i would accept it; i'm not strongly oposed, but i am oposed to big delta for no gain
[16:26] <kraut> mathiaz: of course not, but /srv/www is more a "best practice"
[16:26] <soren> kraut: "unspecified and there is currently no consensus on how this should be done"
[16:26] <lukehasnoname> however, I will run it through Debian if I write up a formal proposal that I think has strong case points.
[16:26] <kraut> soren: that's business as usual
[16:26] <soren> And if we start shipping stuff in there, we might *very* well overwrite user's stuff that they already put in there.
[16:27] <ivoks> kraut: there a tons of tutorials with 'place the website into /var/www'
[16:27] <kraut> soren: it's more a guide for "best practisces", and /srv/<protocol> sounds reasonable
[16:27] <mathiaz> lukehasnoname: that seems like the best course of action
[16:27] <kraut> ivoks: only while years ago somebody choiced that, we need to choice it also in our future, also if there is a better soloution?
[16:27] <mathiaz> lukehasnoname: we won't change the default location if debian is against it because of the huge delta it would introduce
[16:27] <lukehasnoname> Alright... I know it's a change, and change is harsh, but bad habits are formed out of archaic standards that never get moved around.
[16:27] <Brazen> There can also be a transition period with /var/www symlinked to /srv/www (sorry I'm late, don't know if this has been mentioned)
[16:27] <lukehasnoname> mathiaz: That is the only point I completely agree with here,.
[16:28] <lukehasnoname> Debian has to be aboard
[16:28] <soren> kraut: I don't think so, actually. I order stuff in /srv by domain.
[16:28] <ivoks> kraut: as you can see, we aren't very sure it's better; FHS is very... hm... blur about /srv
[16:28] <ScottK-palm> Sorry for being late. Did we talk about specs already.
[16:28] <zul> ScottK-palm: no
[16:28] <lukehasnoname> no ScottK-palm
[16:28] <mathiaz> we have to balance these issues (delta, history and common knowledge) with the best practices (which aren't so clear according to the FHS)
[16:28] <ivoks> i use /srv for smb shares :D
[16:28] <ScottK-palm> Thanks.
[16:28] <kraut> ivoks: that's correct, but if i understood correctly, /srv/<protocol> or /srv/<department>/</protocol> would be the best choice
[16:29] <zul> ivoks: you are weird ;)
[16:29] <kraut> ivoks: i use /home/kraut/mobiledisk for samba, so should that be a worldwide standard? ;)
[16:29] <lukehasnoname> Hell with you guys, I'm going to gobolinux. :p That's that then. I'll discuss the possibility with Debian if I feel I have a case, otherwise I'll just manually do it for me.
[16:29] <kraut> (just kidding)
[16:29] <nealmcb> kraut: common, yes.  "best"?  ymmv...
[16:29] <ivoks> kraut: 'such as' - FHS doesn't have a strong opinion on /srv
[16:29] <ivoks> zul: we all are :D
[16:29] <ScottK-palm> On /var/www we should definitely follow Debianm
[16:29] <kirkland> i definitely do not see how this change would improve the Ubuntu experience for anyone--sysadmins or users
[16:30] <mathiaz> allright - let's move on
[16:30] <lukehasnoname> yes
[16:30] <Brazen> definately follow Debian, but strongly encourage Debian to move to /srv
[16:30] <ivoks> leave it to debian
[16:30] <nealmcb> ScottK-palm: or perhaps lead them, but be in sync....
[16:30] <mathiaz> I think we've got some opinions on why not to do it
[16:30] <kraut> Brazen: *5*
[16:30] <mathiaz> and why to do it
[16:30] <mathiaz> next topic
[16:30] <lukehasnoname> Welcome Brazen. I got slaughtered, heh.
[16:31] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Intrepid spec status
[16:31] <Brazen> sorry lhnn, I meant to be here
[16:31] <ScottK-palm> I'm not saying don't try to convince them, but don't diverge over it.
[16:31] <mathiaz> dendrobates is the last steps of getting things approved
[16:31] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: which specs are looking for ?
[16:32]  * ScottK-palm got one comment from dendrobates.  thanks.  how does it look on getting approved?
[16:32] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: I think that the two specs about email are quit straightforward and could be implemented
[16:32] <ScottK-palm> It's the flavors spec I'm most interested in.
[16:33] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: right - there has been some discussion about it
[16:33] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: during this meeting and on the w3m thread
[16:33] <dendrobates> ScottK-palm: I have been delayed while canoncial worked some things out.  I will be starting the approval process this afternoon.
[16:33] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: so it seems that there is more work to be done on the spec
[16:33] <ScottK-palm> Great.
[16:33] <nealmcb> ScottK-palm: fyi, ﻿(09:06:48 AM) mathiaz: on a related note, nxvl has packaged augeas for ubuntu
[16:34] <ScottK-palm> I saw.
[16:34] <nijaba> ScottK-palm: how would you consider replacing FAI by augeas in your spec (or supplementing it?)
[16:34] <ScottK-palm> Comments on the flavors spec please. I'll fix it up.
[16:35] <ScottK-palm> nijaba: one step at a time.
[16:35] <ScottK-palm> I think with FAI will be hard enough.
[16:36] <mathiaz> I haven't seen any new specs subscribed
[16:36] <ivoks> ssl thing?
[16:36] <mathiaz> so make sure that the specs are in a pending aproval state
[16:36] <ivoks> maybe i didn't do subscribing right :/
[16:36] <mathiaz> so that dendrobates can go through the list
[16:36] <ScottK-palm> Plus one on thay one.
[16:36] <mathiaz> ivoks: I saw it
[16:36] <ivoks> ok, thanks,
[16:37] <ScottK-palm> SSL v2 needs to die.
[16:37] <mathiaz> anything else on the spec front ?
[16:37] <ivoks> ScottK-palm: we'll kill it
[16:37] <ScottK-palm> Not from me.
[16:38] <ScottK-palm> Anyone?
[16:38] <mathiaz> let's move on then
[16:38] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Iso testing - 8.04.1 and 8.10-alpha1
[16:38] <mathiaz> we're gearing for 8.04.1 and 8.10-alpha1
[16:39] <mathiaz> new isos have been created and testing the ubuntu-server isos is welcomed
[16:39] <mathiaz> slangasek: are there 8.10-alpha1 ubuntu-server isos ready for testing ?
[16:40] <mathiaz> the iso testing tracker (http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/) has 8.04.1 isos
[16:40] <mathiaz> slangasek: but I don't see any -server isos for intrepid alpha1
[16:41] <ScottK-palm> Wasn't that delayed?
[16:41] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: we've started the alpha1 isos now
[16:41] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: the new kernel has been uploaded
[16:41] <ScottK-palm> OK.
[16:42] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: so alpha1 isos are being prepared
[16:42] <mathiaz> anyway - -server isos for 8.04.1 are already ready
[16:42] <dendrobates> it will be interesting to see if installing Recommends by default causes us a problem.
[16:42] <dendrobates> It has already been problematic on my dev vm's
[16:42] <mathiaz> so iso testing is much appreciated
[16:43] <nijaba> dendrobates: that's not in 8.04.1 though...
[16:43] <ScottK-palm> We need some clear policy if Universe recommends need MIR.
[16:43] <lukehasnoname> dendrobates: I assume packages have been getting worked on to have reasonable recommends?
[16:43] <zul> nijaba: no it isnt
[16:43] <mathiaz> we're targeting a release of 8.04.1 next week
[16:43] <dendrobates> nijaba: the topic includes 8.10 alpha.
[16:44] <nijaba> dendrobates: my mistake, did not notice
[16:44] <ScottK-palm> Fortunately Debian has had reccomends by default for some time so they've done a lot of work.
[16:44] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: right - well it depends on the package
[16:44] <dendrobates> bzr will install X  :)
[16:45] <zul> dendrobates: ergh
[16:45] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: I guess dropping to suggest if needed
[16:45] <ivoks> devscripts installs... well... a lot :D
[16:45] <lukehasnoname> I had trouble with this recently, since the C# compiler is "recommends" for mono-develop and it didn't get installed
[16:45] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: other wise, MIR will have to be filled for each recommends
[16:45] <soren> dendrobates: What?
[16:45] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: since main has to be installable on its own
[16:46] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: why would you think MIR should be avoided for Recommends ?
[16:46] <ScottK-palm> Yes, but install won't fail on missing recommends.
[16:46] <dendrobates> if it is too large of a problem, we can push the change back in server to intrepid+1, but only if we have too many problems to handle.
[16:47] <ScottK-palm> Not saying either way.  It's a lot of MIR though.
[16:47] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: hm - good question then. You may wanna ask about it on ubuntu-devel
[16:48] <lukehasnoname> MIR?
[16:48] <lukehasnoname> sudo acronym-define MIR
[16:48] <ScottK-palm> Maybe someone could make a list for the server packages.
[16:48] <ScottK-palm> Main Inclusion Report
[16:49] <kirkland> lukehasnoname: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
[16:49] <lukehasnoname> thanks ScottK-palm kirkland
[16:49] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: good point. that would give us some real data on the amount of work needed
[16:50] <ScottK-palm> mathiaz: MIR is more of a Canonical question than Ubuntu.
[16:50] <ivoks> ScottK-palm: how come?
[16:50] <ScottK-palm> Because it affects their support contracts.
[16:51] <nealmcb> well, it affects the support contracts of anyone who supports main
[16:51] <ivoks> right
[16:52] <nijaba> ScottK-palm: it affects mainly Ubuntu maintenance commitment
[16:52] <nijaba> the support contract is a separate thing
[16:52] <ivoks> the moment we don't include something in main cause it affects somebody's contract, i'll leave :)
[16:52] <ScottK-palm> :)
[16:52] <nijaba> if canonical decides to support a subset of main, nothing forbids us to do so
[16:53] <ScottK-palm> True.
[16:53] <nijaba> and that is not really something that we should consider here
[16:53] <nealmcb> nijaba: right
[16:53] <ivoks> let's eliminate fear of canonical and move on :)
[16:53] <nijaba> however, maintenance of packages has some impact
[16:54] <mathiaz> maintenance has an impact on the Ubuntu Security team
[16:54] <nijaba> and the security team is not the last one impacted
[16:54] <ScottK-palm> Someone please get a policy and let us peons know.
[16:55] <nealmcb> moving right along....
[16:55] <mathiaz> let's move on
[16:55] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open discussion
[16:55] <ScottK-palm> Yep....
[16:55] <mathiaz> anyone wants to add something ?
[16:56] <ivoks> postfix-dovecot is on it's way
[16:56] <zul> mathiaz: thanks for getting openldap uploaded btw
[16:56] <soren> ivoks: Cool.
[16:56] <mathiaz> ivoks: \o/
[16:56] <mathiaz> zul: np
[16:56] <soren> ivoks: I'm looking forward to seeing the implementation.
[16:56] <sommer> yay for openldap :)
[16:57] <ivoks> soren: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dovecot/+bug/164837
[16:57] <ScottK-palm> Do we have people who watch upstream support forums for dovecot,openldap, etc.?
[16:57] <ivoks> funny... invalid means something completly different in croatian :D
[16:58] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:58] <kirkland> ivoks: there's an alternate meaning in English too
[16:58] <mathiaz> same time, same place, next week ?
[16:58] <sommer> mathiaz: sure
[16:58] <ivoks> +
[16:58] <ScottK-palm> Ubuntu specific stuff comes up on postfix-users mail list frequently.
[16:58]  * kirkland is on vacation next week ;-)
[16:59] <nijaba> +1
[16:59] <ivoks> ScottK-palm: like?
[16:59] <ScottK-palm> I think someone should be watching other upstream venus too.
[16:59] <zul> kirkland: nyeah nyeah nyah :P
[16:59] <mathiaz> allright - so same place, same time
[16:59] <ivoks> ScottK-palm: i'm on bacula's dev list
[16:59] <mathiaz> see ya next week and happy iso-testing
[17:00] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[17:00] <ScottK-palm> The latest was a dovecot sasl configuration issue.
[17:00] <sommer> ScottK-palm: I'm on the openldap dev list :)
[17:00] <nijaba> thanks mathiaz
[17:00] <zul> ScottK-palm: im on several mailing lists
[17:00] <mathiaz> ScottK-palm: I think most of us are one upstream mailing lists
[17:01] <ScottK-palm> Postfix chroot by default comes up frequently.
[17:01] <mathiaz> *on*
[17:01] <ScottK-palm> Maybe we should check and see if everything is covered.
[17:02] <ScottK-palm> Maybe a wiki page .....
[17:03] <nealmcb> ScottK-palm: then we can harvest good addresses to spam postfix lists :)
[17:03] <nealmcb> ...with...
[17:03] <ScottK-palm> :)
[17:04] <nealmcb> not that there aren't much more effective ways.....
[17:05] <ScottK-palm> Anything else?
[17:07]  * ScottK-palm guesses not. See you all later.
[18:00] <popey> @schedule
[18:00] <popey> eek
[18:23] <boredandblogging> @now
[18:32] <popey> boredandblogging: I will be a bit late for the loco meeting, putting kids to bed
[18:48] <boredandblogging> popey: thats fine
[18:49] <boredandblogging> doesn't look like there is much on the agenda
[18:50] <lukehasnoname> boredandblogging: I thought you were a bot
[18:50] <boredandblogging> lukehasnoname: i've been called worst things :-P
[18:53] <slangasek> mathiaz: hum, I see intrepid ubuntu-server dailies building just fine; I haven't been the one posting any of these to the tracker yet for intrepid, I don't know who has done that for the ones listed
[19:01] <boredandblogging> juliux: ping
[19:01] <boredandblogging> effie: ping
[19:01] <boredandblogging> JanC: ping
[19:01] <JanC> pong  ツ
[19:01] <boredandblogging> hi JanC
[19:07] <boredandblogging> JanC: guess when Popey shows up we can start
[19:08] <JanC> yeah, I saw about the kids  ツ
[19:12] <fetova> hi, i have a little ask...
[19:13] <fetova> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
[19:13] <fetova> here says "The next meeting is scheduled for [WWW] 25-Jun-2008 at 00:00:00 UTC"
[19:13] <fetova> and just be sheduled there
[19:14] <fetova> it's fine?
[19:16] <popey> moo
[19:16] <fetova> :P
[19:16] <JanC> the kids wanted to hear stories about a farm?  ;)
[19:16] <fetova> lol
[19:17] <boredandblogging> fetova: should be on the fridge calendar, but its not
[19:18] <fetova> yeah... i was thinking that...
[19:18] <fetova> so...
[19:18] <fetova> that going to be?
[19:19] <boredandblogging> fetova: I'll add it
[19:19] <fetova> :P
[19:19] <fetova> ok, thanks! :D
[19:19]  * fetova a candidate... and be nervious... :P
[19:20] <JanC> boredandblogging, popey : we're only the three of us?
[19:20] <boredandblogging> JanC: looks like it
[19:21] <popey> looks that way right now
[19:21] <boredandblogging> that ccHost thing has been on the agenda, but doctormo isn't around to talk about it
[19:22] <JanC> any other people around who wanted to talk about that?
[19:22] <JanC> or any people around from the Macedonian team?
[19:22] <boredandblogging> the only person I've seen mentioning it is doctormo
[19:23] <boredandblogging> looks like its going to be a short meeting :-P
[19:24] <popey> #startmeeting
[19:24] <popey> #endmeeting
[19:24] <popey> :)
[19:26] <JanC> arangel (the team contact) seems to be in #ubuntu-mk, will I try to wake him/her?  ;)
[19:27] <JanC> or do we say that's not our task...?
[19:27] <boredandblogging> its not our task
[19:27] <boredandblogging> IMO
[19:28] <boredandblogging> the agenda says to show up at the meeting in bold letters
[19:28] <boredandblogging> at the last meeting we did talk about getting the ubuntu-arabic team a mailing list
[19:28] <boredandblogging> should we just put in a request at rt@ubuntu.com and see what happens?
[19:29] <popey> need someone from the arabic speaking world to manage it tho
[19:29] <JanC> I think we can even *approve* this in rt, except nobody told us how  ;)
[19:33] <boredandblogging> popey: we can probably assign Syntux to do that for now
[19:34] <boredandblogging> since he seems to be the driver
[19:35] <popey> ok
[19:36] <JanC> +1
[19:36] <popey> +1 )
[19:37] <popey> AAARGH my eyes!
[19:37] <popey> :) ah, there they are
[19:37] <boredandblogging> lol
[19:37] <boredandblogging> huats had asked about the twinning stuff we talked about
[19:38] <boredandblogging> do we want to come up with some ways to move that along?
[19:39] <huats> hi guys
[19:39] <huats> :)
[19:43] <boredandblogging> hi huats
[19:43] <boredandblogging> huats: did you have any ideas on twinning?
[19:43] <huats> not really so far
[19:44] <huats> well appart from the fact that it is a good idea
[19:44] <huats> :)
[19:44] <popey> :)
[19:44] <huats> and that it is something that we can help with (speaking with the ubuntu-fr hat on)
[19:45] <boredandblogging> right, there are definitely some good teams out there
[19:49] <huats> but I really thing it is something to work on...
[19:49] <huats> to define a spec and to deal with it all together
[19:49] <huats> :)
[19:51] <JanC> do we need a spec for it?
[19:52] <JanC> I think twinning can be very useful, but how it happens might be very different depending on the case?
[19:52] <huats> may be to define what with expect of the twinning
[19:52] <boredandblogging> yes, thats a good idea
[19:52] <huats> since I sure nobody will have the same idea
[19:52] <huats> I was thinking of a wiki page for starting
[19:55] <boredandblogging> huats: did you want to work on it?
[19:55] <JanC> maybe just start one with your ideas and invite people to add comments?
[20:02] <huats> boredandblogging: sure
[20:02] <huats> sorry for the delay
[20:02] <huats> but we are currently having our regular meeting in the french loco
[20:03] <huats> and since I am the new leader I am leading the meeting :)
[20:03] <huats> but I will start that
[20:03] <huats> and send it on the loco-contacts list as soon as I have something
[20:03] <juliux> sorry for being late
[20:03] <juliux> i had to buy my new kitchen
[20:06] <juliux> boredandblogging: JanC popey sorry
[20:06] <popey> heh
[20:06] <popey> no worries, you didn't miss much
[20:07] <huats> hey juliux
[20:07] <huats> thanks for inviting us al for testing the great food of the new kitchen :)
[20:14] <JanC> right, I guess we can say the meeting is closed now?  ;)
[20:14] <boredandblogging> hah, yeah
[20:56] <arangel> hello
[20:57] <arangel> ping JanC, i know im late (a few hours) but if you need any more info on that application let me know..
[20:58] <JanC> arangel: you'll have to come back next time...
[20:58] <arangel> in a month? :)
[20:59] <JanC> probably, keep an eye on the agenda
[20:59] <JanC> and if you can't come, maybe other people from your team can come
[21:00] <arangel> JanC: well from what i see you hold the meetings every month so probably next month
[21:00] <arangel> JanC: can you give me some more info about what needs to be done at the meeting?
[21:01] <JanC> last meeting was 2-3 weeks ago, but I suspect it will be a month this time
[21:01] <arangel> i mean, you have all the info, we are obviously functioning okay as a team without being an official team.. what else do you guys need (just asking)?
[21:02] <arangel> JanC: okay, cool, i ll try to make it for next time
[21:02] <JanC> arangel: you will be asked to give a short intro about your LoCoTeam, then we'll look at the info (or we'll have looked at it before the meeting) and ask questions
[21:03] <JanC> it's up to you and other team members who attend the meeting to answer them  ;)
[21:04] <JanC> and if we like what we see, you'll be approved, otherwise we will ask you to come back
[21:04] <JanC> (this is the procedure in general lines)
[21:04] <arangel> JanC: okay, thanks for the clarification.
[21:06] <JanC> I saw the team started working on HOWTOs, probably next meeting you will be able to show us some   ;)
[21:10] <arangel> JanC: it's more of a passive team, most of the people have full time jobs and usually join when we need to do something (e.g translate/import applications on Launchpad before a release), but there are some HOWTo's being produced on the forums..
[21:11] <JanC> yeah, I read about the free t-shirts for 4 howtos (or something like that)
[21:11] <arangel> just an idea to motivate people. :)
[21:12] <arangel> it's actually down to 1 detailed howto these days :)
[21:26] <fetova> @now
[21:31] <ccm> .
[21:46] <RoAkSoAx> @schedule lima
[21:54] <pwnguin> is @schedule chicago
[21:54] <pwnguin>  @schedule chicago
[21:55] <pwnguin> @schedule chicago
[21:55] <pwnguin> victory!
[22:49] <fetova> @now
[23:15] <ggomez91> uhm ya hay gente aqui