/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/06/26/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
jeff__Are there logs from the north american membership meeting today?02:59
jeff__I missed it on the drive home02:59
emgent@schedule rome02:59
ubottuemgent: Schedule for Europe/Rome: 26 Jun 12:00: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 15:00: Desktop Team | 01 Jul 17:00:  Server Team | 02 Jul 19:00: QA Team | 03 Jul 00:00: Platform Team | 03 Jul 15:00: Desktop Team02:59
persiajeff__: irclogs.ubuntu.com tends to be mostly complete03:03
jeff__Yeah I missed the membership meeting with me in it :-/03:03
jeff__When did they add in there was going to be a meeting, a week or less ago?03:04
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nxvl@schedule lima03:09
ubottunxvl: Schedule for America/Lima: 26 Jun 05:00: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 08:00: Desktop Team | 01 Jul 10:00:  Server Team | 02 Jul 12:00: QA Team | 02 Jul 17:00: Platform Team | 03 Jul 08:00: Desktop Team03:09
persiaRight.  There ought be some useful discrimination of channels there.  The MOTU School Session doesn't happen here.03:09
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 27 Jun 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team
lifelessputting the channel inthe meeting would do that04:07
lifeless"26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces #ubuntu-motu" for instance04:07
persiaWell, it's #ubuntu-classroom.04:10
lifelesspersia: "for instance"04:11
persialifeless: OK.  In that case my feature request has been implemented, but the documentation hasn't been passed to the relevant meeting organiser.04:11
persiaThat being an educational issue, it can be sorted by the Dean.04:12
persialifeless: And thanks for the explanation :)04:13
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lifelesspersia: I think having 'rooms' that have separate schedules would be good; I was really just noting an obvious workaround :)04:15
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persialifeless: The bot isn't able to differentiate on the title then?04:19
lifelesspersia: I have no idea about implementation04:20
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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 27 Jun 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team
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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Jun 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 27 Jun 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jun 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
pittigreetings, Earthlings!13:54
Riddellhello planet pitti13:54
Hobbseepitti!13:56
pittiHobbsee: look, behind! a three-headed code monkey!13:56
Hobbseepitti: ARGH!!!!13:56
* Hobbsee runs13:56
* pitti tosses a gummybear to Riddell13:56
KeybukOh!  Wo ist mein Gummi?  Ich habe sie verloren!13:58
HobbseeKeybuk: none for you.  NOT YOURS!13:59
seb128hello there13:59
pedro_ahoj14:00
Keybukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv8icJf8mjk14:00
MacSlowola14:01
Keybukkwwii: openbios?!14:02
kwwiiyepp :-)14:02
MacSlowhey pitti, Riddell, Hobbsee, Keybuk, seb128, kwwii, pedro_14:02
Keybukthis is a bit of a departure from wallpapers :-)14:02
Hobbseeheya MacSlow!14:02
KeybukMacSlow: you forgot mvo14:02
* mvo is here14:02
MacSlowmvo, Michaeeeeel!14:02
* tedg is here too!14:02
Keybukso, how is everybody today?14:03
MacSlowyo tedg14:03
MacSlowtedg, oh no... howdy it is now for you right? :)14:03
tedgHowdy y'all ;)14:03
Keybukhowdy par'd'ner14:03
* MacSlow sweats like a pig14:03
Keybuktedg: did you check your gun at the channel entrance ?14:03
MacSlowbut that probably more info than everybody wanted :)14:03
tedgKeybuk: Of course not!  That'd be un-American (for people in Texas).14:04
MacSlowtedg, I wonder how long you'll have to endure texas-related jokes now14:04
Keybukif any of you ever get to visit Dell, take great delight in the gun checks they have in each building14:04
tedgI'm working on my "folks-y" analogies.  That's crazier than a chicken with a trough full of speed.  (not quite there yet)14:04
MacSlowKeybuk, serious?14:04
Keybukand the prominent sign on the door reminding all employees that hand guns are not to be worn in the building and must be checked14:05
KeybukMacSlow: yup14:05
tedgMacSlow: In Texas guns are allowed by default, unless they are explicitly forbidden with obvious signs.14:07
MacSlowtedg, Keybuk: gee! that gives me the creeps!14:07
Keybukanyway, meeting time14:07
Keybukin a radical move, I put together the agenda again:14:07
Keybukhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-06-2614:07
KeybukI only saw the item from MacSlow, did I miss any others?14:07
MacSlowso I begin?14:07
mvodo the flip!14:07
HobbseeKeybuk: gasp!14:07
MacSlowmvo, only one? :)14:07
Keybukno, we begin with outstanding actions from the last meeting ;-)14:07
Keybuk#14:07
KeybukMacSlow to update clutter to appropriate version, not worrying about parallel install14:07
MacSlowdone14:07
* Keybuk saw a comment from njpatel saying he wished we had clutter 0.714:07
ograbut likely referring to hardy :)14:08
MacSlowspeaking of the de... :)14:08
Keybuknjpatel: you wanted clutter 0.7?  in intrepid?14:08
MacSlownjpatel, just kidding :)14:08
seb128and somebody asked me about it this week too14:08
MacSlownjpatel, have a look https://edge.launchpad.net/~macslow/+archive14:08
njpatelKeybuk: yeah 0.7 and 0.8 is released in a few weeks14:08
seb128MacSlow: any reason it's in your ppa and not in intrepid? ;-)14:09
KeybukMacSlow: who will be checking and sponsoring that for you?14:09
seeleKeybuk: pinged jono again but havn´t gotten a reply yet14:09
MacSlowseb128, njpatel: well I skipped the docs for those packages... because I intet them for personal use first :)14:09
MacSlowso don't go around suggesting those to everybody :)14:09
KeybukMacSlow: that doesn't fulfill the outstanding action :-)14:09
njpatelMacSlow: cool14:09
KeybukMacSlow: the action was go get the new clutter in the archive14:09
Keybukso I shall leave that as outstanding for next week14:09
MacSlowKeybuk, ups... ehm... well then I misunderstood that part... with archive I assumed just my PPA *cough*14:10
Keybukseele: thanks14:10
KeybukMacSlow: and how are you doing on merges?14:10
MacSlowexcept for gnumeric/goffice all the other assigned ones (gtkglext, planner, gnome-pilot-conduits, gnome-netstatus) are done14:11
Keybuk(this can also segue nicely into our first agenda item)14:11
MacSlowhey mpt14:11
Keybuk * MacSlow: problems with merging goffice (needed by gnumeric)14:11
seb128goffice is not an easy one indeed14:12
MacSlowKeybuk, but for some I worked on other fokls were faster and uploaded before me14:12
mptSorry, I was out and it took longer than expected14:12
MacSlowyeah... have a look here -> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mmueller/rules14:12
mpt(bureaucratic stuff)14:12
* mvo waves to mpt14:12
MacSlowthat certainly is over my head in regards of package/merge-magic capabilities14:12
Keybukdid you look at the Ubuntu patch to see what the intent was?14:13
Keybukoh14:13
Keybukwow14:13
Keybukthe Ubuntu patch is quite insane14:13
MacSlowseb128, mvo: I'll gladly take any tips and hints you can give me to get goffice/gnumeric done14:13
seb128the intend is to build gtk variants for xubuntu14:13
seb128so it's basically rewritting the build system to build it twice14:13
seb128and debian added dbg variants in the meantime14:14
Keybukseb128: could you help MacSlow with that one?14:14
seb128yes14:14
Keybuklet him do the work, but make sure he knows what to do and why14:14
MacSlowseb128, a thousand thanks!14:14
seb128alright14:14
pitti(that patch -> maaadness!)14:14
seb128MacSlow: you're welcome ;-)14:14
MacSlowpitti, but then... I need challanges to learn that stuff so you'll get less questions from me in the future :)14:15
Keybukeven I wouldn't know where to begin there :p14:15
MacSlowhm... this is my lucky week then... ;)14:15
MacSlowjust got the right thing :)14:16
Keybukok thanks14:16
MacSlownp14:16
Keybukhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/14:16
Keybukye olde Sponsoring queue14:16
Keybukmvo: there's a coreutils merge in there, have you looked at it or is slangasek?14:17
pittiwow, 188690  shows me as pitti(97); I'm sure that I wasn't on that list last week, and I certainly didn't get a bug mail about it; yay Launchpad14:17
Keybukseb128: there's a gnome-applets fix for gailishness14:17
seb128Keybuk: yes, I intend to upload that this afternoon14:17
pittioh, 188690 is a multi-task bug where I just happened to fix some tasks14:18
seb128I was just delaying it because the configure seems to have a requirement on libgail for nothing14:18
kwwiipitti: thanks for uploading my stuff, btw :-)14:18
seb128so ideally the configure should be fixed rather14:18
Keybukseb128: ok14:18
pittikwwii: you're welcome; looking forward to seeing the new theme :)14:18
mvoKeybuk: I haven't, because slangasek did the last merge, but I can certainly review/sponsor the merge14:18
Keybukmvo: check with steve first14:18
* mvo nods14:18
MacSlowkwwii, hey... the chocolate brownish in the input-fields is nice!14:19
Keybukok14:19
kwwiiMacSlow: it might be a bit too dark but having it that dark avoids a few bugs ;-)14:19
KeybukAny Other Business?14:19
Riddellhardy .1 happening this week coming?14:20
KeybukI think so, check with slangasek14:20
pittishould be on track if we want to release on time14:20
pittipulseaudio and some samba stuff have to be left unfixed then, though14:20
Keybukbefore we wrap up, I'd just like to go through everyone to collect a list of specs that are targeted for Intrepid14:21
KeybukRiddell: you first14:21
Keybuk(the lp names will suffice)14:22
Riddellkubuntu-intrepid-version (the main one)14:22
Riddellkubuntu-porting and kubuntu-defaults the other important bits14:22
Keybukany others that community people are working on, or that were discussed at UDS?14:23
MacSlowre14:23
Riddellkubuntu-intrepid-defaults actually14:23
MacSlowsorry...14:23
Riddelland kubuntu-intrepid-kde4-porting14:23
MacSlowthat was the f**king binary blog from nvidia failing (freezing) on me14:23
Keybukok14:24
Keybukkwwii: none from you?14:24
RiddellKeybuk: people are taking bits, keeping track at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo14:24
pittimake-intrepid-shiny? :)14:24
* MacSlow hugs vuntz14:24
kwwiiKeybuk: no specs for me, no...but plenty to do anyway :-)14:24
Keybukkwwii: I have "New Theme" for you14:25
kwwiias a spec?14:25
Keybukno, just as a roadmap item14:25
Keybukare you working on any other bits?14:25
kwwiimainly just the theme14:26
Keybukok14:26
Keybukpitti:14:26
kwwiion the side we have one guy working on OOo icons but I am not sure if it will make it into intrepid14:26
pittiintrepid-device-permissions: relatively quick to implement in its current form, no problem on that, I'll do it myself14:27
pitticonsolidate-spell-checkers: I'll supervise, seb128 will apply some patches when he touches the GNOME packages anyway, and I'll coordinate langpack updates and seed changes with Arne14:27
pittikernel-abi-package-handling: I'm just drafting, implementation will be done by mvo (apt) and tim/Ben  (maintaining kernel that way)14:28
pittijockey-printer-driver-support: that's a huge one, but I'm working on it; some bits come from system-config-printer upstream, I'm coordinating with him14:28
pittigdm-guest-account: still unsure what to do, no response from upstream so far14:28
Keybukgdm-guest-account has a sabdfl priority14:29
pittiother stuff: I'm working with Alberto to integrate envy into jockey, and hand over nvidia/ati jockey handlers to him, as well as repackaging the nvidia/ati bits14:29
pittiKeybuk: seb128 thinks that it'd be better to use the new gdm for that, but if I don't get a response soon, I think I'll do some more homebrew solution, if you don't mind14:29
Keybuksure14:30
seb128pitti: you might want to try #gdm on gimpnet14:30
MacSlowpitti, seb128: hm... is the new gdm packaged yet for intreipd?14:30
pittiseb128: I'll try that14:30
seb128MacSlow: no, and but we really need it right?14:31
seb128the update is tricky14:31
seb128there is no config migration code upstream14:31
pitti(NB that the new gdm doesn't really support guest logins yet; that'd still require lots of work)14:31
seb128and the new codebase still lacks feature the old one had14:31
MacSlowpitti, seb128: yes... and that's why I want to offer my help on that... it touches your and my stuff14:31
seb128ideally I would say there is no hurry to update but there is the face browser thing14:32
MacSlowseb128, yeah... the "login experience" is my highest prio task this cycle14:32
MacSlowseb128, btw... it's officially called "login experience" now... no long "face-browser"... just to avoid confusion in the future :)14:33
seb128alright14:33
MacSlowbut I won't rename the spec14:33
Keybukmvo:14:33
mvopackagekit-intrepid: mostly implementation work by glazor and testing what works and what dosn't, pitti already upload latest packagekit (thanks!)14:34
mvocompiz-intrepid: mostly tweaks, unless we want to use the glxclip plugin and not wait for dri214:34
KeybukI don't mind if we barely touch compiz this cycle14:35
pittipackagekit-intrepid> I need to fix a couple of more things, and haven't tested repository adding/removing yet; I'll help with that14:35
mvokernel-abi-package-handling: the apt bits are tricky with the two dimensional design that is proposed, especially because it looks like the aptitude and smart resolver need to be modified too (smart for landscape love)14:35
MacSlowmvo, hm... DRI2 atm only exists for i915 afaik... other free driver will take some time to "catch up"... not sure who might be working on getting DRI2 in the other drivers14:35
mvoupgrade-testing-in-the-sandbox: I would like to give people the ability to clone there machine into a VM and run a upgrade test there14:35
MacSlowmvo, I could ask around in the "Xorg-circles" I know... of we'll just ask bryce if he knows something on the DRI2-status in other drivers14:36
mvosingle-sign-on releated work (sent mail to Keybuk (not sure if you had a chance to read it yet and how much we can talk in a public channel)14:36
pittimvo: but the two dimensions should be handled entirely independent from each other? also, why does it actually need changes in the resolver? translating them into dependencies doesn't work?14:36
mvosome improvements to the auto upgrade tester: libvirt and snapshots for better debgging of failures14:36
Keybukmvo: which mail was that?14:36
mvoKeybuk: sent to you on monday, give me a sec and I give you the msgid14:36
Keybukoh, the backup bits?14:37
mvoMacSlow: yeah, there is this "hack" plugin that can clip away dri windows in compiz14:37
mvoKeybuk: yes14:37
Keybukah, I had mentally filed that as "backup" not ubunet14:37
MacSlowmvo, I know... you and/or onestone demoed that to me at Prague14:37
Keybukthanks14:38
KeybukMacSlow:14:38
mvopitti: its tricky, it needs to be fast because the depcache is not cached but rebuild on every run14:38
MacSlowKeybuk, yes?14:38
KeybukMacSlow: which specs/projects will you be working on for Intrepid? :-)14:39
MacSlowdamn... I hope my DSL isn't freaking out again14:39
MacSlowKeybuk, mostly login-experience (gdm-face-browser)... do assigned bugs... pick up sparkle-plugin form last cycle if possible14:40
Keybukok14:40
Keybuktedg:14:41
tedgpower-management-settings (at least the GPM parts), network-account-profiles-datastore, network-account-profiles-?14:41
Keybuk-?14:41
Keybuk?14:41
seb128what are those network account things?14:41
tedgI'm unsure if any of the others have priority.  It was to get you to ask :)14:41
tedgseb128: Single-sign-on/Ubuntu.net/NAP (we're searching for a name)14:42
seb128ah ok14:42
Keybuktedg: which ones have you drafted so far?14:42
seb128just making sure that's not a network-admin thing14:42
tedgKeybuk: I think all of them but the applications are in good shape.14:42
tedgI should re-read them though.14:43
Keybuktedg: what are the names? :p14:43
Keybuk(for the log)14:43
tedgnetwork-account-profiles-datastore, network-account-profiles-launchpad, network-account-profiles-management, network-account-profiles-applications14:44
tedgOh, and there's the umbrella network-account-profiles14:44
Keybukthanks14:45
Keybukseb128:14:46
seb128better-login-speed intrepid-menus-review consolidate-spell-checkers14:46
seb128gnome-2-24 too14:46
seb128and there is the music and photo experiences reviews, but I don't know if you consider those as intrepid targets14:46
Keybukwhat are the names of those specs?14:47
seb128ubuntu-music-experience is the music one14:47
seb128did register the photo one, it's lot of work if we want to open bugs for every issues which has been listed14:47
seb128s/did/didn't14:47
seb128but I can make one and dump the notes in the wiki for now14:48
seb128ubuntu-photo-experience14:48
Keybukok14:48
Keybukin terms of GNOME 2.24, there's a couple of big new pieces14:48
Keybukwe've already discussed gdm14:48
Keybukhow's the new gnome-session going?14:48
seb128I landed GTK 2.13 in intrepid14:49
MacSlowah cool14:49
seb128gnome-session is packaged locally but I'm still discussing with upstream how to do "use compiz but fallback to something else if the wrapper exit an error"14:49
seb128right now it doesn't handle that14:49
seb128I talked with lucas about it yesterday and he should have some code to try for that soon14:50
pittiseb128: could the wrapper just start metacity itself, as a fallback?14:50
pittias opposed to failing with a magic exit code and leave the fallback to g-s?14:50
seb128pitti: the issue is that the new gnome-session wait for the started component to register to continue login14:50
seb128so if we start compiz but something else register it gets really confused14:50
seb128wait14:50
seb128go to timeout14:51
seb128and that looks ugly14:51
seb128we need a way for gnome-session to know that the wm has been started to it can continue to the next login sequence14:51
seb128s/to/so14:51
Keybukok thanks seb12814:52
seb128I'm not really concerned about this one, it's going to be fixed one way or another soon14:52
seb128gdm is an another topic14:52
Keybukwe're almost out of time for the meeting, so any other business?14:52
seb128we really want the new one right?14:52
Keybukwe dp14:52
Keybukwe do14:52
seb128we will have some feature not available14:52
Keybukwhich features?14:52
pitti^ we are used to that from hardy and gvfs </dark sarcasm>14:53
seb128pitti: no real regression in gvfs, just some bugs14:53
seb128sec14:53
seb128http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gdm-list/2008-June/msg00017.html14:53
pittiseb128: (btw, we'll switch to gphotofs for good?)14:53
seb128pitti: yes14:53
seb128I'm also not comfortable having no configuration migration on upgrade14:54
seb128but I'm not sure how much work it would me to write some code for that and I've already way too much to do14:55
pittiuh, and no gdmsetup any more?14:55
Keybukthe mail says the new gdm has no configuration to migrate to? :)14:55
kwwiiwow, you can't even theme the thing14:55
seb128Keybuk: I think there is some configurable settings, just no interface to change the values ;-)14:56
pittiseb128: sudo -u gdm gconf-editor then? (it uses gconf exclusively, I guess)14:56
seb128pitti: right14:56
kwwiierm, if we are going to use this we are going to need to have a dev work with me on the themeing, according to that email14:58
Keybukok14:58
Keybuknew gdm hard14:58
seb128well, MacSlow is working on the new gdm login experience as a priority this cycle apparently14:58
* Keybuk picks a suitable large spanner out of the toolbox and heads for the works with an evil glint in his eye14:58
pittiI guess I'll go with the d-bus backend solution for the guest account then, to not block on the new gdm, and implementing guest support in it14:59
MacSlowkwwii, yes... no theming yet14:59
pittiwith my newly acquired skills of writing d-bus backends with PolicyKit support that shouldn't be too hard :)14:59
seb128on an another side intrepid is not a lts15:00
pittiKeybuk: btw, do you consider it an intrepid goal to get rid of the remaining gksu usages in the desktop? or just as "eventually"?15:00
seb128we could land the new gdm soon as it is15:00
Keybukpitti: eventually15:01
Keybukintrepid would be nice15:01
Keybukseb128: your call, I think15:01
seb128and then try to work with upstream at fixing issues15:01
pittiKeybuk: *nod*15:01
Keybukif you'd like a second opinion, pitti can probably give one15:01
seb128knowing that we might not have configuration migration for intrepid15:01
pittimvo: PKification of the language selector etc. :)15:01
seb128not sure if we really care about that though15:01
mvopitti: synaptic?15:01
seb128ok15:02
pittimvo: that one is hard; I don't think we have time to migrate that for intrepid15:02
pittinot as long as PK doesn't support debconf & dpkg conffiles15:02
pittimvo: but e. g. the language selector is easy, langpacks are tame15:02
mvoyeah, happy that you share my feelings about this15:02
mvoindeed15:02
seb128ACTION: seb128 to package the new gdm stock upstream version and upload to the desktop team ppa for people who want to give it a try15:02
Keybukseb128: that's a good plan15:02
pittimvo: and we could finally use it for user settings as well, such as configuring scim15:03
mvopitti: we do use it for scim on a user-basis already15:03
pittimvo: oh, right, it's already run as user and calls gksu synaptic15:04
mvowe also need a interface to write default language, but that ties in nicely with the http proxy work that needs a similar interface15:04
pittiseb128: will we retain g-s-t for intrepid, or will that go away somehow?15:04
mvo/etc/default/locale15:04
pittiseb128: (since I noticed that Fedora doesn't even ship it) I wonder what they use?15:04
mvoI guess they use there system-config-* stuff15:05
pittiah15:05
seb128pitti: they use redhat system tools15:05
seb128pitti: ie, system-config-printer, etc15:05
seb128dunno, but I want to get ride of g-s-t15:06
pittiseb128: I'm not saying that we should kill g-s-t, just curious about the plans15:06
seb128it's ugly, complex, written in perl, not used by other distros and not maintained upstream now15:06
* mvo ++15:06
pittioh, Carlos stopped developing it?15:06
seb128the plan is to deprecate network-admin in favor of network-manager 0.715:06
ograand a pain if you need to add stuff that should show up in the UI15:06
mvoseb128: we need to come up with something for the system config http proxies etc anyway, maybe we can fold something in here too15:06
seb128to use the gnome-panel clock config rather than time-admin15:06
seb128services-admin sucks and does nothing we can just remove it15:07
pittiseb128: right, got that; time-admin is also pretty obsolete, the panel has that15:07
pittiseb128: but users-admin?15:07
seb128we just need to find an equivalent to users-admin15:07
ograpitti, the wors15:07
ograt15:07
seb128pitti: let's look at the redhat system tool for that one? ;-)15:07
ogra++15:07
pittiseb128: do we use anything else from g-s-t? I can't find more ATM15:07
seb128users-admin doesn't work anyway15:07
seb128by reading the bug flood on launchpad about gnome-system-tools15:07
seb128pitti: no, I just did the list15:08
seb128we deprecated shares-admin if favor of nautilus-share already15:08
seb128and as said I don't think services-admin is of any use15:08
pittiand with our dropping of system groups the profile/groups stuff is mostly unneeded, too15:08
pittiseb128: so if users-admin is the only reason why we still have g-s-t/s-c-b, I'm all for replacing it with something more adequate15:09
pittishall I have a look at the tool in Fedora?15:09
seb128yes please15:09
mvoa way to set the workgroup from the UI would be nice again, but otherwise I think sharesadmin is pretty solid15:09
pittiACTION: pitti to evaluate Fedora tool for user administration15:09
pittiKeybuk: ^15:09
ograpitti, i find it funny that only fedora comes up in tehse discussions all the time15:09
seb128mvo: maybe network-manager 0.7 can do that ;-)15:09
ograwhat are others using ?15:09
seb128ogra: yast? ;-)15:09
pittiogra: is there another option?15:09
ograno idea15:10
pittiit was the only alternative that came up ATM15:10
ograbut nobody ever says lets look at mandrake ... or gentoo15:10
mvoseb128: that seems to be the solution for all problems ;)15:10
ogra(just a sidenote)15:10
pittiand if there's no official GNOME tool to do it, we just have to look at what the others use, no?15:10
seb128I'm not a fan of the drake tools and they are written in perl too15:10
pittiright, Mandriva is worse15:10
seb128gentoo uses gnome-system-tools I guess15:10
ograpitti, pardus :)15:11
seb128as do debian15:11
* ogra hides15:11
seb128or other non corporate distros which don't have the ressources to write their own tools15:11
pittiogra: the advantage I see here is that we want to get rid of gksu and don't have root; Fedora has the same goal, thus I think that their tool will comply to that15:11
* pitti apologizes to Keybuk for stealing the meeting focus15:11
pittilet's continue that in #u-devel15:11
ograpitti, right, that was a more general comment, i remember a while ago we always inspected nearly every option ... today its alwas lets look what fedora has15:12
* MacSlow wonders what about everybodies darling Python and PyGTK15:12
pittiogra: well, I just saw the horrible Mandriva tools, I really don't like them15:12
pittiI haven't seen yast in a while, and admittedly I have no clue about gentoo and pardus15:13
seb128well, as said I don't think non commercial distros have ressources to write their tools15:13
seb128I think gentoo uses gnome-system-tools too15:13
kwwiijust use yast - it can do *everything*15:14
* kwwii ducks15:14
* MacSlow looks for a blade of some sort15:14
MacSlow:)15:14
pittiMacSlow: what about it?15:14
* tedg is using yast right now to make coffee -- mmm15:14
pittiMacSlow: I mean pygtk15:14
MacSlowpitti, I thought these kind of UI-settings tools were all written in Python... reading that those are actually written in perl strikes me as very unusual15:15
mvoMacSlow: its the best of all worlds, the gui is C and the backend is perl15:15
pittiMacSlow: g-s-t is C, system-config-backends is Perl15:15
MacSlowpitti, would Python not be a much better language of choice for such tools?15:16
ogratedg, do you use the make dishes plugin as well ?15:16
MacSlowmvo, pitti: oh... I thought it was all perl15:16
pittiMacSlow: that's the Mandriva stuff15:16
pitti(and it looks horrible, too)15:16
tedgogra: No, turns out it breaks mine then apologizes in German :)15:17
MacSlowpitti, never saw any of those tools from Mandriva15:17
ogralol15:17
pittithey'd make mpt scream and run in triangles :)15:17
mpt:-(15:17
MacSlowmpt, that bad?! Uff15:18
james_wthe server team have been looking at http://augeas.net/ It doesn't seem to have a frontend, but it might make one easier15:18
mptI'd love to design a new user accounts tool if needed15:18
kwwiiobtuse triangles15:18
pittijames_w: oh, backend for ebox?15:18
seb128ogra: who said we are not looking around?15:19
james_wpitti: yup, but it might be interesting to have it as a backend for a g-s-t replacement as well.15:19
pittijames_w: certainly worth keeping in mind; not so interesting for user administration perhaps, though15:19
pittijames_w: but really interesting for other purposes15:20
james_wpitti: true.15:20
ograseb128, :)15:20
pittithanks for the heads-up15:22
pittiwe overstepped the meeting time, but at least for me personally that was useful15:23
seb128same for me15:23
pittiKeybuk: anything else for the meeting?15:25
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Jun 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 01 Jul 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 02 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 02 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 03 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 04 Jul 16:00 UTC: How to run a Bug Jam
* pitti takes that as a "no" then and thanks everyone15:36
=== Zic_ is now known as Zic
=== effie is now known as keffie_jayx

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