[02:59] <jeff__> Are there logs from the north american membership meeting today?
[02:59] <jeff__> I missed it on the drive home
[02:59] <emgent> @schedule rome
[03:03] <persia> jeff__: irclogs.ubuntu.com tends to be mostly complete
[03:03] <jeff__> Yeah I missed the membership meeting with me in it :-/
[03:04] <jeff__> When did they add in there was going to be a meeting, a week or less ago?
[03:09] <nxvl> @schedule lima
[03:09] <persia> Right.  There ought be some useful discrimination of channels there.  The MOTU School Session doesn't happen here.
[04:07] <lifeless> putting the channel inthe meeting would do that
[04:07] <lifeless> "26 Jun 10:00 UTC: MOTU School Session - Apport retraces #ubuntu-motu" for instance
[04:10] <persia> Well, it's #ubuntu-classroom.
[04:11] <lifeless> persia: "for instance"
[04:11] <persia> lifeless: OK.  In that case my feature request has been implemented, but the documentation hasn't been passed to the relevant meeting organiser.
[04:12] <persia> That being an educational issue, it can be sorted by the Dean.
[04:13] <persia> lifeless: And thanks for the explanation :)
[04:15] <lifeless> persia: I think having 'rooms' that have separate schedules would be good; I was really just noting an obvious workaround :)
[04:19] <persia> lifeless: The bot isn't able to differentiate on the title then?
[04:20] <lifeless> persia: I have no idea about implementation
[13:54] <pitti> greetings, Earthlings!
[13:54] <Riddell> hello planet pitti
[13:56] <Hobbsee> pitti!
[13:56] <pitti> Hobbsee: look, behind! a three-headed code monkey!
[13:56] <Hobbsee> pitti: ARGH!!!!
[13:56]  * Hobbsee runs
[13:56]  * pitti tosses a gummybear to Riddell
[13:58] <Keybuk> Oh!  Wo ist mein Gummi?  Ich habe sie verloren!
[13:59] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: none for you.  NOT YOURS!
[13:59] <seb128> hello there
[14:00] <pedro_> ahoj
[14:00] <Keybuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv8icJf8mjk
[14:01] <MacSlow> ola
[14:02] <Keybuk> kwwii: openbios?!
[14:02] <kwwii> yepp :-)
[14:02] <MacSlow> hey pitti, Riddell, Hobbsee, Keybuk, seb128, kwwii, pedro_
[14:02] <Keybuk> this is a bit of a departure from wallpapers :-)
[14:02] <Hobbsee> heya MacSlow!
[14:02] <Keybuk> MacSlow: you forgot mvo
[14:02]  * mvo is here
[14:02] <MacSlow> mvo, Michaeeeeel!
[14:02]  * tedg is here too!
[14:03] <Keybuk> so, how is everybody today?
[14:03] <MacSlow> yo tedg
[14:03] <MacSlow> tedg, oh no... howdy it is now for you right? :)
[14:03] <tedg> Howdy y'all ;)
[14:03] <Keybuk> howdy par'd'ner
[14:03]  * MacSlow sweats like a pig
[14:03] <Keybuk> tedg: did you check your gun at the channel entrance ?
[14:03] <MacSlow> but that probably more info than everybody wanted :)
[14:04] <tedg> Keybuk: Of course not!  That'd be un-American (for people in Texas).
[14:04] <MacSlow> tedg, I wonder how long you'll have to endure texas-related jokes now
[14:04] <Keybuk> if any of you ever get to visit Dell, take great delight in the gun checks they have in each building
[14:04] <tedg> I'm working on my "folks-y" analogies.  That's crazier than a chicken with a trough full of speed.  (not quite there yet)
[14:04] <MacSlow> Keybuk, serious?
[14:05] <Keybuk> and the prominent sign on the door reminding all employees that hand guns are not to be worn in the building and must be checked
[14:05] <Keybuk> MacSlow: yup
[14:07] <tedg> MacSlow: In Texas guns are allowed by default, unless they are explicitly forbidden with obvious signs.
[14:07] <MacSlow> tedg, Keybuk: gee! that gives me the creeps!
[14:07] <Keybuk> anyway, meeting time
[14:07] <Keybuk> in a radical move, I put together the agenda again:
[14:07] <Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-06-26
[14:07] <Keybuk> I only saw the item from MacSlow, did I miss any others?
[14:07] <MacSlow> so I begin?
[14:07] <mvo> do the flip!
[14:07] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: gasp!
[14:07] <MacSlow> mvo, only one? :)
[14:07] <Keybuk> no, we begin with outstanding actions from the last meeting ;-)
[14:07] <Keybuk> #
[14:07] <Keybuk> MacSlow to update clutter to appropriate version, not worrying about parallel install
[14:07] <MacSlow> done
[14:07]  * Keybuk saw a comment from njpatel saying he wished we had clutter 0.7
[14:08] <ogra> but likely referring to hardy :)
[14:08] <MacSlow> speaking of the de... :)
[14:08] <Keybuk> njpatel: you wanted clutter 0.7?  in intrepid?
[14:08] <MacSlow> njpatel, just kidding :)
[14:08] <seb128> and somebody asked me about it this week too
[14:08] <MacSlow> njpatel, have a look https://edge.launchpad.net/~macslow/+archive
[14:08] <njpatel> Keybuk: yeah 0.7 and 0.8 is released in a few weeks
[14:09] <seb128> MacSlow: any reason it's in your ppa and not in intrepid? ;-)
[14:09] <Keybuk> MacSlow: who will be checking and sponsoring that for you?
[14:09] <seele> Keybuk: pinged jono again but havn´t gotten a reply yet
[14:09] <MacSlow> seb128, njpatel: well I skipped the docs for those packages... because I intet them for personal use first :)
[14:09] <MacSlow> so don't go around suggesting those to everybody :)
[14:09] <Keybuk> MacSlow: that doesn't fulfill the outstanding action :-)
[14:09] <njpatel> MacSlow: cool
[14:09] <Keybuk> MacSlow: the action was go get the new clutter in the archive
[14:09] <Keybuk> so I shall leave that as outstanding for next week
[14:10] <MacSlow> Keybuk, ups... ehm... well then I misunderstood that part... with archive I assumed just my PPA *cough*
[14:10] <Keybuk> seele: thanks
[14:10] <Keybuk> MacSlow: and how are you doing on merges?
[14:11] <MacSlow> except for gnumeric/goffice all the other assigned ones (gtkglext, planner, gnome-pilot-conduits, gnome-netstatus) are done
[14:11] <Keybuk> (this can also segue nicely into our first agenda item)
[14:11] <MacSlow> hey mpt
[14:11] <Keybuk>  * MacSlow: problems with merging goffice (needed by gnumeric)
[14:12] <seb128> goffice is not an easy one indeed
[14:12] <MacSlow> Keybuk, but for some I worked on other fokls were faster and uploaded before me
[14:12] <mpt> Sorry, I was out and it took longer than expected
[14:12] <MacSlow> yeah... have a look here -> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mmueller/rules
[14:12] <mpt> (bureaucratic stuff)
[14:12]  * mvo waves to mpt
[14:12] <MacSlow> that certainly is over my head in regards of package/merge-magic capabilities
[14:13] <Keybuk> did you look at the Ubuntu patch to see what the intent was?
[14:13] <Keybuk> oh
[14:13] <Keybuk> wow
[14:13] <Keybuk> the Ubuntu patch is quite insane
[14:13] <MacSlow> seb128, mvo: I'll gladly take any tips and hints you can give me to get goffice/gnumeric done
[14:13] <seb128> the intend is to build gtk variants for xubuntu
[14:13] <seb128> so it's basically rewritting the build system to build it twice
[14:14] <seb128> and debian added dbg variants in the meantime
[14:14] <Keybuk> seb128: could you help MacSlow with that one?
[14:14] <seb128> yes
[14:14] <Keybuk> let him do the work, but make sure he knows what to do and why
[14:14] <MacSlow> seb128, a thousand thanks!
[14:14] <seb128> alright
[14:14] <pitti> (that patch -> maaadness!)
[14:14] <seb128> MacSlow: you're welcome ;-)
[14:15] <MacSlow> pitti, but then... I need challanges to learn that stuff so you'll get less questions from me in the future :)
[14:15] <Keybuk> even I wouldn't know where to begin there :p
[14:15] <MacSlow> hm... this is my lucky week then... ;)
[14:16] <MacSlow> just got the right thing :)
[14:16] <Keybuk> ok thanks
[14:16] <MacSlow> np
[14:16] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
[14:16] <Keybuk> ye olde Sponsoring queue
[14:17] <Keybuk> mvo: there's a coreutils merge in there, have you looked at it or is slangasek?
[14:17] <pitti> wow, 188690  shows me as pitti(97); I'm sure that I wasn't on that list last week, and I certainly didn't get a bug mail about it; yay Launchpad
[14:17] <Keybuk> seb128: there's a gnome-applets fix for gailishness
[14:17] <seb128> Keybuk: yes, I intend to upload that this afternoon
[14:18] <pitti> oh, 188690 is a multi-task bug where I just happened to fix some tasks
[14:18] <seb128> I was just delaying it because the configure seems to have a requirement on libgail for nothing
[14:18] <kwwii> pitti: thanks for uploading my stuff, btw :-)
[14:18] <seb128> so ideally the configure should be fixed rather
[14:18] <Keybuk> seb128: ok
[14:18] <pitti> kwwii: you're welcome; looking forward to seeing the new theme :)
[14:18] <mvo> Keybuk: I haven't, because slangasek did the last merge, but I can certainly review/sponsor the merge
[14:18] <Keybuk> mvo: check with steve first
[14:18]  * mvo nods
[14:19] <MacSlow> kwwii, hey... the chocolate brownish in the input-fields is nice!
[14:19] <Keybuk> ok
[14:19] <kwwii> MacSlow: it might be a bit too dark but having it that dark avoids a few bugs ;-)
[14:19] <Keybuk> Any Other Business?
[14:20] <Riddell> hardy .1 happening this week coming?
[14:20] <Keybuk> I think so, check with slangasek
[14:20] <pitti> should be on track if we want to release on time
[14:20] <pitti> pulseaudio and some samba stuff have to be left unfixed then, though
[14:21] <Keybuk> before we wrap up, I'd just like to go through everyone to collect a list of specs that are targeted for Intrepid
[14:21] <Keybuk> Riddell: you first
[14:22] <Keybuk> (the lp names will suffice)
[14:22] <Riddell> kubuntu-intrepid-version (the main one)
[14:22] <Riddell> kubuntu-porting and kubuntu-defaults the other important bits
[14:23] <Keybuk> any others that community people are working on, or that were discussed at UDS?
[14:23] <MacSlow> re
[14:23] <Riddell> kubuntu-intrepid-defaults actually
[14:23] <MacSlow> sorry...
[14:23] <Riddell> and kubuntu-intrepid-kde4-porting
[14:23] <MacSlow> that was the f**king binary blog from nvidia failing (freezing) on me
[14:24] <Keybuk> ok
[14:24] <Keybuk> kwwii: none from you?
[14:24] <Riddell> Keybuk: people are taking bits, keeping track at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
[14:24] <pitti> make-intrepid-shiny? :)
[14:24]  * MacSlow hugs vuntz
[14:24] <kwwii> Keybuk: no specs for me, no...but plenty to do anyway :-)
[14:25] <Keybuk> kwwii: I have "New Theme" for you
[14:25] <kwwii> as a spec?
[14:25] <Keybuk> no, just as a roadmap item
[14:25] <Keybuk> are you working on any other bits?
[14:26] <kwwii> mainly just the theme
[14:26] <Keybuk> ok
[14:26] <Keybuk> pitti:
[14:26] <kwwii> on the side we have one guy working on OOo icons but I am not sure if it will make it into intrepid
[14:27] <pitti> intrepid-device-permissions: relatively quick to implement in its current form, no problem on that, I'll do it myself
[14:27] <pitti> consolidate-spell-checkers: I'll supervise, seb128 will apply some patches when he touches the GNOME packages anyway, and I'll coordinate langpack updates and seed changes with Arne
[14:28] <pitti> kernel-abi-package-handling: I'm just drafting, implementation will be done by mvo (apt) and tim/Ben  (maintaining kernel that way)
[14:28] <pitti> jockey-printer-driver-support: that's a huge one, but I'm working on it; some bits come from system-config-printer upstream, I'm coordinating with him
[14:28] <pitti> gdm-guest-account: still unsure what to do, no response from upstream so far
[14:29] <Keybuk> gdm-guest-account has a sabdfl priority
[14:29] <pitti> other stuff: I'm working with Alberto to integrate envy into jockey, and hand over nvidia/ati jockey handlers to him, as well as repackaging the nvidia/ati bits
[14:29] <pitti> Keybuk: seb128 thinks that it'd be better to use the new gdm for that, but if I don't get a response soon, I think I'll do some more homebrew solution, if you don't mind
[14:30] <Keybuk> sure
[14:30] <seb128> pitti: you might want to try #gdm on gimpnet
[14:30] <MacSlow> pitti, seb128: hm... is the new gdm packaged yet for intreipd?
[14:30] <pitti> seb128: I'll try that
[14:31] <seb128> MacSlow: no, and but we really need it right?
[14:31] <seb128> the update is tricky
[14:31] <seb128> there is no config migration code upstream
[14:31] <pitti> (NB that the new gdm doesn't really support guest logins yet; that'd still require lots of work)
[14:31] <seb128> and the new codebase still lacks feature the old one had
[14:31] <MacSlow> pitti, seb128: yes... and that's why I want to offer my help on that... it touches your and my stuff
[14:32] <seb128> ideally I would say there is no hurry to update but there is the face browser thing
[14:32] <MacSlow> seb128, yeah... the "login experience" is my highest prio task this cycle
[14:33] <MacSlow> seb128, btw... it's officially called "login experience" now... no long "face-browser"... just to avoid confusion in the future :)
[14:33] <seb128> alright
[14:33] <MacSlow> but I won't rename the spec
[14:33] <Keybuk> mvo:
[14:34] <mvo> packagekit-intrepid: mostly implementation work by glazor and testing what works and what dosn't, pitti already upload latest packagekit (thanks!)
[14:34] <mvo> compiz-intrepid: mostly tweaks, unless we want to use the glxclip plugin and not wait for dri2
[14:35] <Keybuk> I don't mind if we barely touch compiz this cycle
[14:35] <pitti> packagekit-intrepid> I need to fix a couple of more things, and haven't tested repository adding/removing yet; I'll help with that
[14:35] <mvo> kernel-abi-package-handling: the apt bits are tricky with the two dimensional design that is proposed, especially because it looks like the aptitude and smart resolver need to be modified too (smart for landscape love)
[14:35] <MacSlow> mvo, hm... DRI2 atm only exists for i915 afaik... other free driver will take some time to "catch up"... not sure who might be working on getting DRI2 in the other drivers
[14:35] <mvo> upgrade-testing-in-the-sandbox: I would like to give people the ability to clone there machine into a VM and run a upgrade test there
[14:36] <MacSlow> mvo, I could ask around in the "Xorg-circles" I know... of we'll just ask bryce if he knows something on the DRI2-status in other drivers
[14:36] <mvo> single-sign-on releated work (sent mail to Keybuk (not sure if you had a chance to read it yet and how much we can talk in a public channel)
[14:36] <pitti> mvo: but the two dimensions should be handled entirely independent from each other? also, why does it actually need changes in the resolver? translating them into dependencies doesn't work?
[14:36] <mvo> some improvements to the auto upgrade tester: libvirt and snapshots for better debgging of failures
[14:36] <Keybuk> mvo: which mail was that?
[14:36] <mvo> Keybuk: sent to you on monday, give me a sec and I give you the msgid
[14:37] <Keybuk> oh, the backup bits?
[14:37] <mvo> MacSlow: yeah, there is this "hack" plugin that can clip away dri windows in compiz
[14:37] <mvo> Keybuk: yes
[14:37] <Keybuk> ah, I had mentally filed that as "backup" not ubunet
[14:37] <MacSlow> mvo, I know... you and/or onestone demoed that to me at Prague
[14:38] <Keybuk> thanks
[14:38] <Keybuk> MacSlow:
[14:38] <mvo> pitti: its tricky, it needs to be fast because the depcache is not cached but rebuild on every run
[14:38] <MacSlow> Keybuk, yes?
[14:39] <Keybuk> MacSlow: which specs/projects will you be working on for Intrepid? :-)
[14:39] <MacSlow> damn... I hope my DSL isn't freaking out again
[14:40] <MacSlow> Keybuk, mostly login-experience (gdm-face-browser)... do assigned bugs... pick up sparkle-plugin form last cycle if possible
[14:40] <Keybuk> ok
[14:41] <Keybuk> tedg:
[14:41] <tedg> power-management-settings (at least the GPM parts), network-account-profiles-datastore, network-account-profiles-?
[14:41] <Keybuk> -?
[14:41] <Keybuk> ?
[14:41] <seb128> what are those network account things?
[14:41] <tedg> I'm unsure if any of the others have priority.  It was to get you to ask :)
[14:42] <tedg> seb128: Single-sign-on/Ubuntu.net/NAP (we're searching for a name)
[14:42] <seb128> ah ok
[14:42] <Keybuk> tedg: which ones have you drafted so far?
[14:42] <seb128> just making sure that's not a network-admin thing
[14:42] <tedg> Keybuk: I think all of them but the applications are in good shape.
[14:43] <tedg> I should re-read them though.
[14:43] <Keybuk> tedg: what are the names? :p
[14:43] <Keybuk> (for the log)
[14:44] <tedg> network-account-profiles-datastore, network-account-profiles-launchpad, network-account-profiles-management, network-account-profiles-applications
[14:44] <tedg> Oh, and there's the umbrella network-account-profiles
[14:45] <Keybuk> thanks
[14:46] <Keybuk> seb128:
[14:46] <seb128> better-login-speed intrepid-menus-review consolidate-spell-checkers
[14:46] <seb128> gnome-2-24 too
[14:46] <seb128> and there is the music and photo experiences reviews, but I don't know if you consider those as intrepid targets
[14:47] <Keybuk> what are the names of those specs?
[14:47] <seb128> ubuntu-music-experience is the music one
[14:47] <seb128> did register the photo one, it's lot of work if we want to open bugs for every issues which has been listed
[14:47] <seb128> s/did/didn't
[14:48] <seb128> but I can make one and dump the notes in the wiki for now
[14:48] <seb128> ubuntu-photo-experience
[14:48] <Keybuk> ok
[14:48] <Keybuk> in terms of GNOME 2.24, there's a couple of big new pieces
[14:48] <Keybuk> we've already discussed gdm
[14:48] <Keybuk> how's the new gnome-session going?
[14:49] <seb128> I landed GTK 2.13 in intrepid
[14:49] <MacSlow> ah cool
[14:49] <seb128> gnome-session is packaged locally but I'm still discussing with upstream how to do "use compiz but fallback to something else if the wrapper exit an error"
[14:49] <seb128> right now it doesn't handle that
[14:50] <seb128> I talked with lucas about it yesterday and he should have some code to try for that soon
[14:50] <pitti> seb128: could the wrapper just start metacity itself, as a fallback?
[14:50] <pitti> as opposed to failing with a magic exit code and leave the fallback to g-s?
[14:50] <seb128> pitti: the issue is that the new gnome-session wait for the started component to register to continue login
[14:50] <seb128> so if we start compiz but something else register it gets really confused
[14:50] <seb128> wait
[14:51] <seb128> go to timeout
[14:51] <seb128> and that looks ugly
[14:51] <seb128> we need a way for gnome-session to know that the wm has been started to it can continue to the next login sequence
[14:51] <seb128> s/to/so
[14:52] <Keybuk> ok thanks seb128
[14:52] <seb128> I'm not really concerned about this one, it's going to be fixed one way or another soon
[14:52] <seb128> gdm is an another topic
[14:52] <Keybuk> we're almost out of time for the meeting, so any other business?
[14:52] <seb128> we really want the new one right?
[14:52] <Keybuk> we dp
[14:52] <Keybuk> we do
[14:52] <seb128> we will have some feature not available
[14:52] <Keybuk> which features?
[14:53] <pitti> ^ we are used to that from hardy and gvfs </dark sarcasm>
[14:53] <seb128> pitti: no real regression in gvfs, just some bugs
[14:53] <seb128> sec
[14:53] <seb128> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gdm-list/2008-June/msg00017.html
[14:53] <pitti> seb128: (btw, we'll switch to gphotofs for good?)
[14:53] <seb128> pitti: yes
[14:54] <seb128> I'm also not comfortable having no configuration migration on upgrade
[14:55] <seb128> but I'm not sure how much work it would me to write some code for that and I've already way too much to do
[14:55] <pitti> uh, and no gdmsetup any more?
[14:55] <Keybuk> the mail says the new gdm has no configuration to migrate to? :)
[14:55] <kwwii> wow, you can't even theme the thing
[14:56] <seb128> Keybuk: I think there is some configurable settings, just no interface to change the values ;-)
[14:56] <pitti> seb128: sudo -u gdm gconf-editor then? (it uses gconf exclusively, I guess)
[14:56] <seb128> pitti: right
[14:58] <kwwii> erm, if we are going to use this we are going to need to have a dev work with me on the themeing, according to that email
[14:58] <Keybuk> ok
[14:58] <Keybuk> new gdm hard
[14:58] <seb128> well, MacSlow is working on the new gdm login experience as a priority this cycle apparently
[14:58]  * Keybuk picks a suitable large spanner out of the toolbox and heads for the works with an evil glint in his eye
[14:59] <pitti> I guess I'll go with the d-bus backend solution for the guest account then, to not block on the new gdm, and implementing guest support in it
[14:59] <MacSlow> kwwii, yes... no theming yet
[14:59] <pitti> with my newly acquired skills of writing d-bus backends with PolicyKit support that shouldn't be too hard :)
[15:00] <seb128> on an another side intrepid is not a lts
[15:00] <pitti> Keybuk: btw, do you consider it an intrepid goal to get rid of the remaining gksu usages in the desktop? or just as "eventually"?
[15:00] <seb128> we could land the new gdm soon as it is
[15:01] <Keybuk> pitti: eventually
[15:01] <Keybuk> intrepid would be nice
[15:01] <Keybuk> seb128: your call, I think
[15:01] <seb128> and then try to work with upstream at fixing issues
[15:01] <pitti> Keybuk: *nod*
[15:01] <Keybuk> if you'd like a second opinion, pitti can probably give one
[15:01] <seb128> knowing that we might not have configuration migration for intrepid
[15:01] <pitti> mvo: PKification of the language selector etc. :)
[15:01] <seb128> not sure if we really care about that though
[15:01] <mvo> pitti: synaptic?
[15:02] <seb128> ok
[15:02] <pitti> mvo: that one is hard; I don't think we have time to migrate that for intrepid
[15:02] <pitti> not as long as PK doesn't support debconf & dpkg conffiles
[15:02] <pitti> mvo: but e. g. the language selector is easy, langpacks are tame
[15:02] <mvo> yeah, happy that you share my feelings about this
[15:02] <mvo> indeed
[15:02] <seb128> ACTION: seb128 to package the new gdm stock upstream version and upload to the desktop team ppa for people who want to give it a try
[15:02] <Keybuk> seb128: that's a good plan
[15:03] <pitti> mvo: and we could finally use it for user settings as well, such as configuring scim
[15:03] <mvo> pitti: we do use it for scim on a user-basis already
[15:04] <pitti> mvo: oh, right, it's already run as user and calls gksu synaptic
[15:04] <mvo> we also need a interface to write default language, but that ties in nicely with the http proxy work that needs a similar interface
[15:04] <pitti> seb128: will we retain g-s-t for intrepid, or will that go away somehow?
[15:04] <mvo> /etc/default/locale
[15:04] <pitti> seb128: (since I noticed that Fedora doesn't even ship it) I wonder what they use?
[15:05] <mvo> I guess they use there system-config-* stuff
[15:05] <pitti> ah
[15:05] <seb128> pitti: they use redhat system tools
[15:05] <seb128> pitti: ie, system-config-printer, etc
[15:06] <seb128> dunno, but I want to get ride of g-s-t
[15:06] <pitti> seb128: I'm not saying that we should kill g-s-t, just curious about the plans
[15:06] <seb128> it's ugly, complex, written in perl, not used by other distros and not maintained upstream now
[15:06]  * mvo ++
[15:06] <pitti> oh, Carlos stopped developing it?
[15:06] <seb128> the plan is to deprecate network-admin in favor of network-manager 0.7
[15:06] <ogra> and a pain if you need to add stuff that should show up in the UI
[15:06] <mvo> seb128: we need to come up with something for the system config http proxies etc anyway, maybe we can fold something in here too
[15:06] <seb128> to use the gnome-panel clock config rather than time-admin
[15:07] <seb128> services-admin sucks and does nothing we can just remove it
[15:07] <pitti> seb128: right, got that; time-admin is also pretty obsolete, the panel has that
[15:07] <pitti> seb128: but users-admin?
[15:07] <seb128> we just need to find an equivalent to users-admin
[15:07] <ogra> pitti, the wors
[15:07] <ogra> t
[15:07] <seb128> pitti: let's look at the redhat system tool for that one? ;-)
[15:07] <ogra> ++
[15:07] <pitti> seb128: do we use anything else from g-s-t? I can't find more ATM
[15:07] <seb128> users-admin doesn't work anyway
[15:07] <seb128> by reading the bug flood on launchpad about gnome-system-tools
[15:08] <seb128> pitti: no, I just did the list
[15:08] <seb128> we deprecated shares-admin if favor of nautilus-share already
[15:08] <seb128> and as said I don't think services-admin is of any use
[15:08] <pitti> and with our dropping of system groups the profile/groups stuff is mostly unneeded, too
[15:09] <pitti> seb128: so if users-admin is the only reason why we still have g-s-t/s-c-b, I'm all for replacing it with something more adequate
[15:09] <pitti> shall I have a look at the tool in Fedora?
[15:09] <seb128> yes please
[15:09] <mvo> a way to set the workgroup from the UI would be nice again, but otherwise I think sharesadmin is pretty solid
[15:09] <pitti> ACTION: pitti to evaluate Fedora tool for user administration
[15:09] <pitti> Keybuk: ^
[15:09] <ogra> pitti, i find it funny that only fedora comes up in tehse discussions all the time
[15:09] <seb128> mvo: maybe network-manager 0.7 can do that ;-)
[15:09] <ogra> what are others using ?
[15:09] <seb128> ogra: yast? ;-)
[15:09] <pitti> ogra: is there another option?
[15:10] <ogra> no idea
[15:10] <pitti> it was the only alternative that came up ATM
[15:10] <ogra> but nobody ever says lets look at mandrake ... or gentoo
[15:10] <mvo> seb128: that seems to be the solution for all problems ;)
[15:10] <ogra> (just a sidenote)
[15:10] <pitti> and if there's no official GNOME tool to do it, we just have to look at what the others use, no?
[15:10] <seb128> I'm not a fan of the drake tools and they are written in perl too
[15:10] <pitti> right, Mandriva is worse
[15:10] <seb128> gentoo uses gnome-system-tools I guess
[15:11] <ogra> pitti, pardus :)
[15:11] <seb128> as do debian
[15:11]  * ogra hides
[15:11] <seb128> or other non corporate distros which don't have the ressources to write their own tools
[15:11] <pitti> ogra: the advantage I see here is that we want to get rid of gksu and don't have root; Fedora has the same goal, thus I think that their tool will comply to that
[15:11]  * pitti apologizes to Keybuk for stealing the meeting focus
[15:11] <pitti> let's continue that in #u-devel
[15:12] <ogra> pitti, right, that was a more general comment, i remember a while ago we always inspected nearly every option ... today its alwas lets look what fedora has
[15:12]  * MacSlow wonders what about everybodies darling Python and PyGTK
[15:12] <pitti> ogra: well, I just saw the horrible Mandriva tools, I really don't like them
[15:13] <pitti> I haven't seen yast in a while, and admittedly I have no clue about gentoo and pardus
[15:13] <seb128> well, as said I don't think non commercial distros have ressources to write their tools
[15:13] <seb128> I think gentoo uses gnome-system-tools too
[15:14] <kwwii> just use yast - it can do *everything*
[15:14]  * kwwii ducks
[15:14]  * MacSlow looks for a blade of some sort
[15:14] <MacSlow> :)
[15:14] <pitti> MacSlow: what about it?
[15:14]  * tedg is using yast right now to make coffee -- mmm
[15:14] <pitti> MacSlow: I mean pygtk
[15:15] <MacSlow> pitti, I thought these kind of UI-settings tools were all written in Python... reading that those are actually written in perl strikes me as very unusual
[15:15] <mvo> MacSlow: its the best of all worlds, the gui is C and the backend is perl
[15:15] <pitti> MacSlow: g-s-t is C, system-config-backends is Perl
[15:16] <MacSlow> pitti, would Python not be a much better language of choice for such tools?
[15:16] <ogra> tedg, do you use the make dishes plugin as well ?
[15:16] <MacSlow> mvo, pitti: oh... I thought it was all perl
[15:16] <pitti> MacSlow: that's the Mandriva stuff
[15:16] <pitti> (and it looks horrible, too)
[15:17] <tedg> ogra: No, turns out it breaks mine then apologizes in German :)
[15:17] <MacSlow> pitti, never saw any of those tools from Mandriva
[15:17] <ogra> lol
[15:17] <pitti> they'd make mpt scream and run in triangles :)
[15:17] <mpt> :-(
[15:18] <MacSlow> mpt, that bad?! Uff
[15:18] <james_w> the server team have been looking at http://augeas.net/ It doesn't seem to have a frontend, but it might make one easier
[15:18] <mpt> I'd love to design a new user accounts tool if needed
[15:18] <kwwii> obtuse triangles
[15:18] <pitti> james_w: oh, backend for ebox?
[15:19] <seb128> ogra: who said we are not looking around?
[15:19] <james_w> pitti: yup, but it might be interesting to have it as a backend for a g-s-t replacement as well.
[15:19] <pitti> james_w: certainly worth keeping in mind; not so interesting for user administration perhaps, though
[15:20] <pitti> james_w: but really interesting for other purposes
[15:20] <james_w> pitti: true.
[15:20] <ogra> seb128, :)
[15:22] <pitti> thanks for the heads-up
[15:23] <pitti> we overstepped the meeting time, but at least for me personally that was useful
[15:23] <seb128> same for me
[15:25] <pitti> Keybuk: anything else for the meeting?
[15:36]  * pitti takes that as a "no" then and thanks everyone