[00:00] <ogra> who would care ?
[00:00] <Falken> I'm sorry, you mean I'm not supposed to put my own email address in the maintainer field ?
[00:00] <ogra> thats only for compliance to an agreement we have with debian
[00:00] <ogra> you surely wont see me putting XSCB-Original-Maintainer in an ubuntu only package
[00:01] <cody-somerville> ogra, you have a ubuntu e-mail address?
[00:01] <ogra> (despite being totally pointless)
[00:01] <ogra> cody-somerville, sure
[00:01] <cody-somerville> ogra, and is that the e-mail you put as the maintainer?
[00:02] <ogra> in the packages i build for ubuntu only i do, yes
[00:02] <cody-somerville> so you're already following the policy :P
[00:02] <ogra> h, indeed
[00:03] <ogra> sorry for the noise then :)
[00:03] <Falken> flabber is an original package, so ... in this case what should I do ?
[00:03] <cody-somerville> Falken, since you don't have a Ubuntu e-mail address, set the maintainer to Ubuntu MOTU Developers
[00:03] <cody-somerville> and set yourself as XSBC-Original-Maintainer
[00:03] <Falken> oh ok I see
[00:04] <Falken> thank you !
[00:04] <cody-somerville> No problem. :)
[00:05] <norsetto> _##(&@_#(%&@+#% took me a minute to find where they have hidden the "subscribe somebody else" button now
[00:07] <moosepants> Hi guys. Is this the right/wrong channel to ask about a problem I am having backporting a package, and a specific issue I am having with the resultant package?
[00:09] <crimsun_> as good as any given good debugging information.
[00:10] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto: i already patched eggdrop with ssl support and uploaded the debdiff  to the merge bug... (in case you where wondering... i told emgent i wanted the merge :) )
[00:11] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: ok, thanks, have you subscribed u-u-s?
[00:11] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto: yep :)
[00:11] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: perfect
[00:12] <moosepants> Alright, It comes back to my mission to backport the Subversion 1.5 package put up to Intrepid (by Doku). I have rebuilt his package source under Hardy, and am experiencing an SSL problem, which is a noted bug in the Debian package people. The problem is reportedly an issue with libneon27-gnutls. So I rebuilt my package against libneon26-gnutls, but am experiencing the same issue. Is there something I should look at to find more info on why this
[00:12] <moosepants> is happneing?\
[00:17] <tacone> where to ask about python packaging ?
[00:18] <Falken> ScottK, I just uploaded the modified package, is there a need for a revu admin to sync each time we upload, to actually see it on the website ?
[00:18] <Falken> Hi tacone, did you check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python ?
[00:18] <crimsun_> moosepants: what issue?  How have you been debugging (gdb, ...)?
[00:19] <tacone> Falken: that's my bible but doesn't answers my questions
[00:19] <Falken> :D
[00:19] <tacone> ok, switching to #python
[00:21] <moosepants> crimsun_: I think the issue is with client certificate validation. The server is asking for a resend of the certificate, and something is going wrong somewhere.  http://www.nabble.com/Bug-480041:-subversion:-Breaks-client-certificate-negotiation-td17111865.html details the Debian Bug.
[00:21] <crimsun_> moosepants: ok, I'll look when I'm less busy.  In the meantime, don't block on me (don't wait for me to respond immediately, as someone else likely will help).
[00:22] <moosepants> crimsun_: it's ok, i don't spinlock ;)
[00:25] <Falken> cody-somerville : do you mind checking it again ? :D
[00:27] <moosepants> Could someone running hardy and the subversion off the repo (1.4.x) please pastebin me an ldd of their /usr/bin/svn?
[00:28] <Laney> !paste
[00:29] <Laney> moosepants: http://paste.ubuntu.com/22976/
[00:29] <Laney> (amd64)
[00:29] <moosepants> Laney: Thanks very much :)
[00:39] <Falken> I'm sorry I'm being impatient with my first package ever :P should I just wait for someone to review it someday ? or hassle everyone with it until it's done ? :D
[00:47]  * tacone votes for hassling
[01:00] <swegner> If I want to create a modified version of an ubuntu package for uploading to a PPA, is there a particular naming scheme I should use for the package?
[01:03] <ScottK> tacone: #python isn't going to know about Debian packaging for Ubuntu.
[01:03] <ScottK> What's the problem?
[01:04] <tacone> ScottK: to my knowledge there are 2 chances: packaging with or without distutils.
[01:04] <ScottK> Yes.
[01:04] <tacone> ScottK: I had a setup.py problem, including recursively a dir.
[01:04] <ScottK> If you use distutils it's generally dead easy.
[01:04] <tacone> I couldn't find anything about it.
[01:05] <ScottK> How many levels of recursion and why?
[01:05] <tacone> at least 3 levels of recursion. it's a theme directory. each theme as subdirs. and I would like to not impose limits, as they could require maintenance.
[01:06] <tacone> ScottK: on the other hand debian/rules should handle that nicely. Am I wrong ?
[01:07] <ScottK> You can do it in setup.py too.
[01:07] <tacone> just checked, no I ain't.
[01:07] <tacone> ScottK: how ?
[01:07] <tacone> ScottK: to my knowledge I have to write python code to do that.
[01:07] <ScottK> Yes.
[01:07] <ScottK> But it's not hard.
[01:08] <ScottK> For debian/rules you'd have to write shell to do it.  It's about the same.
[01:08] <tacone> not really
[01:08] <tacone> I've mistaken
[01:09] <emgent> hello people
[01:10] <moosepants> emgent: hello person
[01:10] <tacone> ScottK: I am trying to adapt the previous package. there's a <packagename>.install file which contains the required dirs
[01:10] <ScottK> Yes.
[01:10] <tacone> seems like the list get passed to a cp command or something like that.
[01:10] <ScottK> I that'd do it too.
[01:10] <ScottK> mkdir actually.
[01:11] <ScottK> err, yes.  cp.
[01:11] <tacone> I have also a .dirs file, which doesn't seem strictly required (but for empy dirs I guess)
[01:12] <ScottK> Yes.  That's what it's for.
[01:12] <ScottK> For making directories, not necessarily empty.
[01:12] <tacone> ScottK: now package installs.but python files are putten in /usr/share/pyshared/<dirname>/*
[01:12] <tacone> is that correct ?
[01:13] <ScottK> If you are using python-central, yes.
[01:13] <tacone> ScottK: yes I am.
[01:31] <moosepants> Hiy'all, whats the major difference between libneon and libneon-gnutls ??
[01:33] <crimsun_> moosepants: the former is compiled against OpenSSL; the latter is compiled against GnuTLS.
[01:34] <moosepants> crimsun_: Why then, would the 1.4 subversion package be compiled against libneon, whereas the 1.5 package in Intrepid (by Matthias), is compiled against libneon-gnutls
[01:35] <moosepants> I just compiled my 1.5 package against libneon and it works fine
[01:37] <crimsun_> moosepants: documented in Debian 478142
[01:45] <moosepants> crimsun_: Hmm interestingly I got the same results as Debian 480041 until I switched back to using libneon (openssl). I wonder if I can be bothered tracking this down or just waiting to see what becomes of 480041...
[01:49] <moosepants> In fact, I think I'll put my findings down in 480041 and see where we go from there. Thanks all.
[02:12] <tacone> should the ubuntu version number be incremented when packaging a new upstream version ?
[02:14] <persia> tacone: Typically it should be reset.  For example 0.1-2ubuntu1 becomes 0.1-0ubuntu1 for a direct upstream update.
[02:14] <persia> Err.  0.2-0ubuntu1
[02:14] <persia> It's generally considered better to try to coordinate with Debian, and then merge with 0.2-1 creating 0.2-1ubuntu1
[02:15] <tacone> persia: the package is not from debian
[02:15] <persia> tacone: In which case, there's no expectation of coordination.  0.2-0ubutnu1 will do fine.  Just attach the diff.gz to a bug, and make sure that orig.tar.gz is generated from debian/rules get-orig-source
[02:16] <tacone> persia: should I generate the diff even if upstream source structure changed totally ?
[02:17] <persia> tacone: The diff.gz, not a package diff.
[02:18] <tacone> err. ok. (gosh) I am going to document my self a little about that.
[02:19] <persia> tacone: More expansively, the debdiff against the previous version of the package is not likely to be comprehensible, due to upstream changes.  On the other hand, there will still be packaging, so you'll get a diff.gz and an orig.tar.gz. when you build the source package.  It's this diff that is useful for the sponsors.
[02:20] <tacone> ok
[02:20] <tacone> thanks
[02:46] <nxvl> kees: around?
[02:58] <jeff__> #ubuntu-meeting
[03:15] <moosepants> if I change my pbuilderrc so that I am building for Feisty for instance (on my Hardy), will this delete all of the packages etc it downloaded for my Hardy pbuild environment?
[03:16] <moosepants> (Or will they remain in cache)
[03:16] <persia> moosepants: I don't use pbuilder, so I may be incorrect, but I believe that it supports multiple parallel chroots, as long as you give them different release names.
[03:17] <moosepants> persia: Thanks. I guess I'll suck it and see
[03:17] <persia> So you'd do something like pbuilder --create again for Feisty, and then you'd be able to target either environment when you build something.
[03:17] <persia> What you *really* don't want to do is try changing /etc/apt/sources.list inside pbuilder, which will confuse the link between contents and names.
[03:20] <moosepants> persia: Yeah I just wondered if I needed to do something so that there was a base.tar.gz for Feisty, and one for Hardy, but it might be clever enough to handle it all internally
[03:21] <ScottK> In my experience it is, but I don't do it exactly that way, so no promised.
[03:21] <persia> I think if you have two different base.tar.gz files, you're all set, although no promises, given my unfamiliarity with pbuilder.
[03:21] <ScottK> promised/promises.
[03:25] <moosepants> We'll see... Cheers
[03:37] <nxvl> Amaranth: you are the man i was looking for!
[03:38] <nxvl> Amaranth: i need some help on graphics programming
[03:38] <nxvl> Amaranth: i need an easy way to do a ball which moves on a b-spline curve
[03:38] <nxvl> (prefered in python, but not limited to)
[03:45] <wgrant> ScottK: /me chokes. Does somebody really think they can get ClamAV into main?
[03:46] <ScottK> wgrant: Yes.  I was sitting next to kees when I brought it up at UDS and he didn't even hit me.
[03:46] <ScottK> wgrant: Bottom line is that it'll be painful, but if we want to be taken seriously as a server distro, Canonical needs to suck it up and support it.
[03:46] <wgrant> ScottK: I can't see how it can even slightly be considered.
[03:47] <wgrant> If we have to backport every minor upstream release to every series...
[03:47]  * persia suspects ScottK of being the person who ends up sucking up and supporting it
[03:47] <wgrant> ScottK: How do other distros do it? Backport new versions?
[03:47] <ScottK> That's how opensuse does it.
[03:47] <ScottK> They don't seem to worry about what it breaks.
[03:48] <wgrant> Maybe some almighty Canonical folks can talk sense into ClamAV folks?
[03:48]  * ScottK has some hopes on that front.
[03:48] <wgrant> And maybe I should attack the Intel driver in Intrepid for reducing my monitor brightness often.
[03:48] <ScottK> That's probably not even the most shocking MIR that will be in the stack.
[03:48]  * ScottK just finished a MIR for Sendmail.
[03:48] <wgrant> What's worse?
[03:49] <wgrant> WHy!? Milters need it?
[03:49] <ScottK> Yes.
[03:49] <wgrant> Haha.
[03:49] <ScottK> Promote the source and libmilter
[03:49] <wgrant> They couldn't be split?
[03:49] <ScottK> Then I can unsplit amavisd-new and don't have to split clamav.
[03:49] <ScottK> Since the binary stays in Universe no split is needed.
[03:50] <ScottK> I discussed it with pitti today and he was OK with no split.
[03:50] <wgrant> OK.
[03:51] <ScottK> With clamav we probably want to roll to new versions if we can do it safely as even with security patches, the old versions don't find viruses very well.
[03:51] <ScottK> So the big thing is getting the regression testing right.
[03:52] <wgrant> I suspect you'll be asked to write some thorough qa-regression-tests suites for it...
[03:52] <ScottK> Many of the libclamav rdepends are unmaintained/minimally maintained in Debian, so I'm going to see about getting them removed.
[03:52] <ScottK> Actually kees already has one that's pretty decent.
[03:52] <wgrant> That's an interesting way to solve it.
[03:52] <wgrant> I saw it.
[03:52] <wgrant> It's pretty basic, but covers things like RARs and mboxes...
[03:53] <ScottK> The trick here is that clamd has a stable interface and so is safe to update, but libclamav does not.
[03:54] <ScottK> So if the packages that use libclamav are either robustly maintained or removed, then jumping versions isn't so hard.
[03:54] <wgrant> Right.
[03:54] <ScottK> My record on that so far is pretty good.
[03:54] <wgrant> Does the interface really need to change, or are they just doing it to be annoying or not knowing what they're doing?
[03:54] <ScottK> I got two complaints taking dapper from 0.88 to 0.92 and none updating Feisty and Gutsy.
[03:54] <wgrant> Not bad.
[03:54] <persia> What broke in Dapper?
[03:55] <ScottK> Their position is "We aren't 1.0 yet, so we can do whatever we want."
[03:55] <wgrant> ScottK: Are they ever going to go 1.0?
[03:55] <ScottK> There was a function that python-clamav dropped due to a clamav change that broke a custom 3rd party package and one person had a dansguardian configuration problem.
[03:56] <ScottK> wgrant: WINE went 1.0.  Anything can happen.
[03:56] <wgrant> ScottK: True.
[03:56] <ScottK> The python-clamav problem was solved by packaging and backporting python-pyclamd that did something similar.
[03:56] <persia> ScottK: Ah good.  Local issues only.
[03:57] <ScottK> Yes.  We tested the cr@p out of it and the rdpends before jumping back to Dapper.
[03:57] <wgrant> I'm not sure I like seeing this in an upstream changelog: 'Dates can now be in the year-range 1-9999'
[03:57] <ajmitch> ScottK: I'm sure the users appreciate it deep down
[03:57] <wgrant> I wonder what on earth they're doing that means implementing their own date storage format...
[03:58] <ajmitch> if they even knew what the issues where
[03:58] <ScottK> The guy with the dansguardian problem asked me what the heck had motivated us to update.  I said 19 fixed CVEs and he thanked me even though it broke his sysytem.
[03:59] <wgrant> It should probably be noted somewhere prominent in the packaging that such updates will occur...
[03:59] <wgrant> (and why)
[03:59] <persia> Package long description even?
[03:59] <wgrant> That is one place I was thinking of.
[04:00] <ScottK> Except that clamav is currently a sync from Debian.  I'd like to keep it that way and they handle it differently.
[04:00] <ScottK> sgran just points at volatile.
[04:00]  * ScottK had a grave bug filed against the klamav package in etch (I'm the maintainer) that it didn't work with the packages from volatile.
[04:01]  * ScottK closed it.
[04:03] <ajmitch> grave? that's interesting, to say the least
[04:03] <ajmitch> saying that a release version doesn't work when you upgrade stuff underneath it
[04:03] <ScottK> I don't think the reporter understood different repos.
[04:04] <ScottK> I tried to explain it in a reasonably nice way.
[06:13] <Gralco> how do i edit .bashrc
[06:14] <wgrant> Gralco: By asking in #ubuntu. This isn't a support channel.
[06:15] <tacone> I can't figure out how to procede when dealing with a new upstream version. It has a complete different source tree. I can successfully build it with pbuilder, but I don't know how to generate the diff from the previous package. I also can't figure out reading the wiki.
[06:16] <tacone> does anyone has some url to read or the time to indicate me the right route ?
[06:17] <ScottK> tacone: When you make the source pacakge (debuild -S -sa) that will produce the diff.gz you need to provide.
[06:18] <tacone> ScottK: do I need an original tarball somewhere to base the diff on ?
[06:19] <ScottK> You will need to have it locally, but the MOTU that reviews the package will fetch it from upstream themselves.
[06:20] <tacone> ScottK: a pastebin is worth thousand words. http://pastebin.com/m17d5b16b is that ok ?
[06:20] <tacone> should I keep memaker-0.9.4 and ﻿memaker-0.9.5 in the same dir like that ?
[06:21] <ScottK> That's not a problem.  You want to provide the 0.9.5 version of memaker_0.9.4-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
[06:21] <ScottK> It's way late here, so I need to get to bed.
[06:22] <tacone> ok, good night.
[06:23] <dholbach> good morning
[06:26] <nxvl> dholbach: hi!
[06:27] <ajmitch> hello
[06:27] <dholbach> hi nxvl, hi ajmitch
[06:29] <nxvl> dholbach: i was thinking today while reading a lot of mails
[06:29] <nxvl> dholbach: for intrepid we have a lot of contributors (more than i see for hardy)
[06:30] <nxvl> and the sponsoring queue is growing and growing
[06:30] <nxvl> it may be because the old devs are focused on 8.04.1, but since your work is to bring more developers i feel like i need to talk to you abut this
[06:31] <nxvl> since the queue is a bottle neck for some new contributors
[06:31] <persia> nxvl: That is always the way, for each release.  Since feisty, the sponsor queues have grown faster in each release.
[06:31] <nxvl> persia: yes, but last release was manageable
[06:31] <dholbach> nxvl: I realised this too and am going to push for more sponsoring and more review
[06:31] <wgrant> The queue is fairly short now.
[06:31] <wgrant> We're at least keeping up.
[06:32] <nxvl> persia: this time is growing at surprising speed
[06:32] <persia> nxvl: As will this release.  It tends to be worst a little before DIF, and then get much better.  It gets messy again around betafreeze, and then gets better
[06:32] <nxvl> dholbach: maybe (as i raised the idea earlier on the cicle) there can be some sponsor days, as we have (or use to) revu days
[06:33] <persia> nxvl: For me, each release since feisty has grown faster than the previous.  I'm not surprised, but it is fast.
[06:33] <persia> nxvl: We discussed sponsoring days in the past, and even tried it for a bit.
[06:33] <nxvl> persia: yes, but for example i have a diff waiting since 30 Abril
[06:33] <persia> The finding was that scheduled sponsoring days reduced regular sponsoring by the sponsors.
[06:33] <persia> nxvl: Which queue?
[06:34] <nxvl> main one
[06:34] <persia> Right.
[06:34] <nxvl> Bug #225005
[06:34] <persia> Someone ought sort the main queue, and have a process :)
[06:34] <slangasek> if you mean the gnupg merge, well, I think I need to be more proactive about refusing merges that dholbach assigns to me
[06:34] <slangasek> at least during 8.04.1, I just haven't had any time to get to them all :/
[06:35] <nxvl> slangasek: i'm not complaining about you, just the whole process, it was just the first example which comes to my mind
[06:35] <nxvl> slangasek: sorry if you understand otherwise
[06:35] <slangasek> nxvl: well, I'm suggesting that I may not be representative of the process either
[06:35] <slangasek> I suspect that currently, most of the main sponsors are doing a much better job than I am personally
[06:36] <nxvl> and also i'm not trying to say that the people aren't doing a good job
[06:36] <nxvl> because thay are
[06:36] <nxvl> i have got packages sponsored really fast
[06:36] <persia> slangasek: For main, it has historically depended heavily on the specific package, with some packages getting sponsored quickly, and some bugs languishing in the queue for over six months.
[06:36] <nxvl> but the number of contributor are growing to fast now
[06:37] <nxvl> and based on what persia said it will grow more for intrepid+1
[06:37] <slangasek> well, if it's a question of the number of contributors growing too fast, then I think we need a better model than having each of them repeatedly requesting individual sponsorship for package uploads...
[06:37] <wgrant> Hopefully the number of MOTU will also grow.
[06:38] <persia> Personally, I'm of the opinion that Ubuntu has outgrown main/universe, and that this is part of the issue.
[06:38] <wgrant> persia: We have a spec to solve that, as I believe you've seen.
[06:38] <persia> wgrant: Yep.
[06:38] <dholbach> it will always require people willing to review and sponsor :)
[06:39] <nxvl> dholbach: yes, and there is where i was going
[06:39] <persia> slangasek: It's mostly an issue for those packages that aren't cared for by a specific team, and are just in main.  Nobody tends to merge those patches, and as a result, it gets skewed.
[06:39] <slangasek> nxvl: oh, actually, I'm afraid <sigh> that your merge in 225005 is no longer valid, it's against a version of gnupg that's no longer in the Debian archive :/  Could you update to a more recent version (either current testing, or current unstable), or do you want me to fish -2.1 out of snapshot.debian.net?
[06:39] <nxvl> dholbach: you are making a wonderful job making new people come into the community, but you have somehow forgot developers, and making them review and sponsor
[06:39] <persia> We've had a couple people be mostly main sponsors, but not for very long each: it's not always clear whether any given package fits into that category.
[06:40] <dholbach> nxvl: I haven't forgotten that - I look at the queue every day and poke people every day
[06:40] <dholbach> but I agree that we need more efforts there
[06:40] <wgrant> nxvl: Unfortunately we can't really be made to sponsor, and it's not always the funnest of tasks.
[06:40] <slangasek> persia: I'm saying that if the number of contributors is growing fast enough that they're overloading the sponsorship queue in general, then having more sponsors is not a very appropriate answer, because you eventually run into scalability problems there too (problems that can be mitigated by ubiquitous revision control, but we're not there yet)
[06:40] <nxvl> dholbach: yes, that i know, remember that i'm always in that queue, and i always see your comments first
[06:41] <nxvl> dholbach: but it will we awesome if more people like you triage the bugs on the sposoring queue
[06:41] <wgrant> NMSP would make everything very nice, slangasek.
[06:41] <slangasek> NMSP?
[06:41] <Hobbsee> no more source packages.
[06:41] <persia> slangasek: ubiquitous version control doesn't solve it alone, as most of the potential contributors aren't likely to look at the same package twice, so wouldn't have VCS access.
[06:41] <wgrant> Everything done in a VCS.
[06:42] <Hobbsee> certainly, looking at why we have inactive people, particularly in teh areas of sponsoring, would be a good idea.
[06:42] <persia> If it's just proposed branches, that might make sponsoring simpler for some people, but it still leaves sponsoring to be done.
[06:42] <wgrant> slangasek: It was an Ubuntu/Launchpad spec some time ago, but it seems to have faded into distant memory.
[06:42] <Hobbsee> but i say that as a case of 'armchair development'
[06:43] <slangasek> persia: I'm just saying that there's a built-in scalabilty limit to the "one contributor, one sponsored upload" model, which is that at some point you have too high a rate of collisions between multiple uploads being prepared at the same time.
[06:44] <persia> slangasek: Understood.  We've rarely had that conflct: the conflict is more often that someone who could sponsor doesn't bother to check if there is anything available to sponsor and duplicates the work.
[06:44] <persia> That said, as we grow, we may encounter that issue.
[06:44] <nxvl> also if the contributors continue growing more than the MOTU's (which is an obvious bahavior) you will have more problems
[06:45] <nxvl> and you will end with a the MOTU's just reviewing the contributors work
[06:45] <nxvl> and not making things done
[06:45] <persia> nxvl: More problems, or just more unsponsored upload candidates?
[06:45] <nxvl> which is also a bad thing
[06:45] <nxvl> persia: i mean if we start trying to have more sponsors
[06:46] <persia> nxvl: We've traditionally had about three times as many contributors as members of ubuntu-dev.  If about 10% of ubuntu-dev does sponsoring, we tend to keep up.
[06:46] <persia> (with exceptions, and occasional lapses)
[06:47] <nxvl> well, yes
[06:47] <nxvl> but the thing is that some work is needed on these side
[06:47] <nxvl> s/side/front/
[06:47] <persia> If we're seeing faster relative growth of contributors than ubuntu-dev (e.g. more than 3:1 new starter rate), I suspect the problem is that there is some issue with people joining MOTU, and would like to see that addressed.
[06:47] <nxvl> and it also isn't a good idea to depend on dholbach doing to
[06:48] <nxvl> something is needed
[06:48] <nxvl> and we need to thing about why and how
[06:48] <persia> nxvl: I don't: I'm one of the UUS admins, and wrote the UUS policy.  That said, I think there could be improvement in UMS, but am not sure of the right solution given the sensitivity of some packages.
[06:49] <nxvl> well
[06:49] <nxvl> UMS is more sensitive and not much new contributors use it
[06:49] <persia> UUS lags sometimes, but I don't think the issue is growth, but rather interest.  I've seen less traffic in this channel during this release cycle than any previous, which makes me wonder about activity.
[06:49] <nxvl> i'm thing more on UUS
[06:49]  * dholbach takes a look at creox and vtk
[06:50]  * wgrant has been far too inactive recently.
[06:50]  * persia thinks UUS is doing OK, if it maybe has a few days of lag
[06:52] <persia> Or maybe not.  Three weeks is a little long.  Still, I expect it to catch up soonish.
[06:53]  * Hobbsee vaguely wonders how to make MOTU, and sponsorship, more interesting.
[06:53] <nxvl> that's what i'm saying
[06:53] <nxvl> is not that it's doing wrong
[06:54] <nxvl> just that in not a far away future it won't be enought
[06:54] <nxvl> and better to start thinking on how to better it now that later
[06:55] <wgrant> We could use the Canonical mind control ray to steal DDs.
[06:55] <nxvl> heh
[06:55] <persia> That hasn't tended to improve MOTU activity in the past though.
[06:55] <nxvl> why it must be so funny when someone mentions DD's in this channel
[06:56] <Hobbsee> persia: no, as they tend to get paid to work on a specific part of main
[06:56] <wgrant> That wasn't the mind control ray I was thinking of.
[06:57] <persia> Hobbsee: Well, I was thinking that DDs not already hopelessly busy tend to have a focus on specific packages, rather than hitting tens or hundreds as MOTU tend to do.
[06:57] <Hobbsee> persia: true
[06:57] <Hobbsee> persia: i wonder if our MOTU's have transitioned to act more like DD's, then.
[06:58] <persia> Some of them seem to have done so.
[06:58] <wgrant> TIL can induce that.
[06:58] <Hobbsee> i guess it's natural that most would, though
[06:58] <persia> Personally I feel that concepts like "touched-it-last" and "ping the last uploader" and "assigned merges" have contributed to that.
[06:58] <persia> Part of why I dislike all of those.
[06:59] <nxvl> persia: but to "split" one or other way the MOTU team into subteam will also make it more scalable
[07:00] <wgrant> nxvl: Perhaps - we'll see what happens if the archive is reorganised...
[07:00] <persia> nxvl: We did a lot of that in Feisty, and it didn't tend to work.
[07:00] <nxvl> well i mean to do subgroups like pythonistas
[07:01] <Hobbsee> wgrant: that won't really affect motu, though?
[07:01] <nxvl> not to split the archive
[07:01] <Hobbsee> well, it will a bit with flavours, but not otherwise.
[07:01] <persia> Hobbsee: Well, it affects MOTU in that it's about upload permission, but it oughtn't affect MOTU targets.
[07:01] <wgrant> Hobbsee: It will take a few large chunks of packages and give them a set of specific uploaders of significant size
[07:02] <persia> nxvl: That's exactly the sorts of subgroups we used in Feisty.  Most of them were dead teams in Gutsy, and there were lots of complaints about lack of active MOTU.
[07:02] <nxvl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams
[07:02] <nxvl> like this
[07:02] <nxvl> i don't think even the half of them are active
[07:02] <wgrant> As persia said, that seems to generally fail.
[07:02] <wgrant> Regrettably.
[07:02] <wgrant> Because it should have been a good idea.
[07:02] <wgrant> It seems to work in Debian.
[07:02] <persia> It certainly sounded good.
[07:03] <persia> I think it works in Debian because it is bringing people together, rather than splitting them apart.
[07:03] <nxvl> hyeh
[07:03] <persia> I think there is value to having ubuntu-python, ubuntu-ruby, ubuntu-java, etc.
[07:03] <nxvl> yes it could be
[07:03] <persia> I think there is also value in having MOTU.  On the wiki, on the Teams page, MOTU is described as the QA developers.
[07:04] <persia> We are the people who fix the bugs in all the packages that aren't getting enough attention: some of these packages have no Ubuntu maintainer, some just aren't watched carefully enough.
[07:04] <nxvl> yes
[07:04] <pwnguin> which packages have ubuntu maintainers?
[07:04] <persia> I like to think of MOTU as being a sort of super Debian QA team, with every day being open for 0-day NMUs.
[07:04] <wgrant> pwnguin: Those will be more obvious once the reorganisation occurs.
[07:05] <nxvl> well, i tend to watch the packages i'm interested in back from debian
[07:05] <persia> pwnguin: Some packages are specifically maintained by the Desktop team or the Mobile team or the Kubuntu team, etc.  Most packages don't have specific maintainer teams.
[07:05] <persia> wgrant: For some subset of packages, it is encoded in the Maintainer field of the source package...
[07:05] <pwnguin> so mostly main
[07:05] <nxvl> pwnguin: nop
[07:06] <persia> pwnguin: Well, not those maintained by the Xubuntu, Mythbuntu, or Xubuntu Studio teams.
[07:06] <nxvl> pwnguin: there are a lot of packages maintained by those teams on universe
[07:06] <persia> nxvl: Good point.  Desktop and Server teams both have a few packages in universe, don't they?
[07:06] <pwnguin> so we do have successful teams in MOTU
[07:06] <wgrant> persia: True, but that's not overly reliable.
[07:06] <nxvl> persia: yes we have
[07:06] <persia> wgrant: True.
[07:06] <pwnguin> they're just not what you thought they'd look like
[07:06] <nxvl> most of my contributions to the server team are in universe
[07:07] <persia> pwnguin: Which?  You mean the flavour teams?  None tend to be exclusively MOTU.
[07:07] <dholbach> so a quick round of feedback: what keeps YOU from doing sponsoring right now? :-)
[07:08]  * persia has a long list of things needing to be done, and keeps leaving sponsoring near the bottom
[07:08] <dholbach> all you upload-privileged folks in here :-)
[07:08] <nxvl> dholbach: i'm not a motu :D
[07:09]  * RAOF is actually looking at aptoncd sponsorship right now, but generally it's time or the lack thereof.
[07:09] <Gralco> I wish I know a think or two about package managing
[07:09] <nxvl> dholbach: and don't have upload privileges
[07:09] <nxvl> :P
[07:09] <Gralco> knew*
[07:09] <wgrant> dholbach: It's not the most interesting of tasks, and what limited time I have at the moment goes to other tasks.
[07:09] <nxvl> Gralco: it's not hard
[07:10] <RAOF> Also, there's a fair amount of context switching involved in sponsoring other people's packages.  I need get up to speed with the current package, what needs to be done, _and_ work out how it's been done.
[07:10] <Gralco> well your probably much older than me
[07:10] <nxvl> Gralco: it just need one or 3 weeks of dedicated work playing, reading and learning, and then just practica
[07:10] <nxvl> Gralco: don't bet
[07:11] <Gralco> me and dedication are not very good friends
[07:11] <Gralco> although I've tried
[07:11] <dholbach> but you've all done sponsoring before - do you think anything changed along the way?
[07:12] <nxvl> Gralco: same here
[07:12] <nxvl> Gralco: but it's really funny
[07:12] <nxvl> :D
[07:12] <nxvl> Gralco: also you can see dholbach's videos
[07:12] <Gralco> nxvl wanna help me
[07:12] <nxvl> Gralco: they are very intructive
[07:12] <Gralco> I think I have
[07:12] <nxvl> Gralco: well, since you are here i think you are in europe or some tz near
[07:13] <Gralco> I got lost, I understand gpg pretty well
[07:13] <nxvl> Gralco: i use to be here until this time
[07:13] <nxvl> it's 1 o'clock here
[07:13] <Gralco> I live in the US
[07:13] <Gralco> 2 here
[07:13] <nxvl> heh
[07:13] <nxvl> so i can
[07:13] <nxvl> :D
[07:13] <nxvl> but not now
[07:13] <Gralco> huh
[07:14] <nxvl> i will go sleep in a bit
[07:14] <Gralco> oh
[07:14] <nxvl> dholbach: not me
[07:14] <nxvl> :D
[07:14] <nxvl> btw
[07:15] <nxvl> did someone know a ToDo list tool that manages priority?
[07:15] <pwnguin> evolution
[07:15] <pwnguin> it integrates into the gnome clock too
[07:15] <nxvl> to bloat for todo list
[07:15] <pwnguin> na
[07:15]  * nxvl give it a try
[07:15] <Gralco> what does UDS do
[07:16] <pwnguin> it has progress, categories, due dates and more. it doesn't have bloat, it has features ;)
[07:16]  * nxvl doesn't find the priorities
[07:17] <pwnguin> the default is not good for mere mortals
[07:17] <pwnguin> theres a column you can add
[07:17] <pwnguin> just right click on the coluumn tabs
[07:18] <pwnguin> it only supports 3 priorities but
[07:19] <pwnguin> you could file a bug asking for closer compliance with LP status
[07:19] <nxvl> i only need 3 priorities
[07:19] <nxvl> well, maybe whislist
[07:19] <nxvl> but 3 are fine
[07:19] <nxvl> i can use low as whislist
[07:20] <pwnguin> i saw a tech talk at google about assigning a dollar value to your todo list
[07:20] <nxvl> mm
[07:20] <pwnguin> and maybe an hour weight
[07:20] <nxvl> but i can't see priorities on gclock
[07:21] <nxvl> mm, still now what i was looking for
[07:21] <nxvl> but i seems closer that having 3 Sticky notes
[07:21] <pwnguin> thats a good point. the default sorting order seems to use due ddates
[07:22] <pwnguin> its a very corporate rules and managemant based program
[07:22] <nxvl> yep
[07:22] <pwnguin> life has no due date
[07:23] <persia> Oh, it has one, just most of the ink has washed away, so it's hard to read
[07:23] <nxvl> i want just to see all my ToDo task in the order i write them and separate by priorities
[07:23] <pwnguin> was there a meeting going on about the long term health of motu?
[07:23] <persia> Not a meeting.  Just people talking.
[07:23] <nxvl> yes
[07:23] <nxvl> just nxvl making noice
[07:23] <nxvl> :D
[07:23] <pwnguin> hope i didnt interrupt anything
[07:24] <nxvl> and some people taking notice
[07:24] <nxvl> :P
[07:24] <persia> nxvl: No, it's good to make noise if something bothers you.  I only wish everyone did.
[07:24] <nxvl> persia: yes, i was just trying to be funny, i kind of sleepy now
[07:24] <persia> Not that every problem is soluable, but it's at least easier to understand a problem when it's expressed.
[07:25] <pwnguin> you know what bothers me? the terrible developer support tools in ubuntu
[07:25] <wgrant> pwnguin: Like?
[07:25] <persia> pwnguin: What tools would you like?
[07:25] <pwnguin> eclipse CDT
[07:25] <wgrant> Oh, so not Ubuntu developers.
[07:25] <pwnguin> wgrant: thats not entirely true
[07:26] <persia> pwnguin: Oh, you mean the programs shipped have issues?  That needs bugs and patches :)
[07:26] <pwnguin> persia: that needs more than MOTU can provide, but i think motu feels the pain
[07:26] <wgrant> pwnguin: Why does it affect us
[07:26] <wgrant> *?
[07:26] <wgrant> We don't often develop applications, and particularly not with strange memory-hogging IDEs.
[07:27] <pwnguin> because you're losing people interested and potentially productive
[07:27] <nxvl> persia: yes, i find more usefull to talk about the problem that just complain about it at some point
[07:27] <wgrant> pwnguin: Application development on Ubuntu != development of Ubuntu.
[07:27] <pwnguin> wgrant: take a look at pdebuild
[07:28] <wgrant> Eclipse has little application to MOTU.
[07:28] <wgrant> pwnguin: What does it do?
[07:28] <persia> pwnguin: It's a balance.  That said, perhaps you'd like to coordinate a general effort to improve the development tools avialable in Ubuntu, working with upstreams and maintainers to get them as good as they can be?
[07:28] <pwnguin> the description seems pretty clear
[07:28] <pwnguin> persia: the trouble is going to be finding like minded individuals
[07:29] <pwnguin> I dont think wgrant is alone in his opinion
[07:29] <persia> pwnguin: That's just marketing.
[07:29] <pwnguin> i hate that word, when used as an euphamism for advertising
[07:30] <persia> It's not advertising alone though.
[07:30]  * nxvl doesn't like eclipse
[07:30] <persia> I agree it's a malapropism, but don't have a better word.
[07:30] <nxvl> i try not to use Java aplications
[07:31] <directhex> monodevelop!
[07:31]  * nxvl is getting sick
[07:32] <pwnguin> persia: but seriously, the eclipse problems are endemic; i've documented a small portion of it here: http://jldugger.livejournal.com/6274.html
[07:32] <nxvl> why to use and IDE if i can use VIM?
[07:32] <directhex> better memory footprint than eclipse, can't argue with that
[07:32] <directhex> nxvl, GUI design, easy breakpointing, code completion, section folding?
[07:32] <nxvl> i have glade
[07:33] <pwnguin> directhex: i met a guy last week who refused to upgrade from 7.10 because monodevelop wasn't meeting his needs. i need to talk more with him about it
[07:33] <nxvl> the others vim supports them
[07:33] <nxvl> also
[07:33] <nxvl> i don't make GUI development
[07:33] <directhex> some of us can just about remember ctrl-x and ctrl-v for cutnpaste, but not much eyond that
[07:33] <wgrant> pwnguin: So, um, I'm still failing to see what these Eclipse issues have to do with Ubuntu.
[07:34] <wgrant> directhex: THen you're probably not going to have much success remembering how to code.
[07:34] <nxvl> you still have a mouse and middle click
[07:34] <StevenK> Presumably we should just fix them. Apparently.
[07:34] <pwnguin> wgrant: developers are your best fountain for new MOTU, no?
[07:34] <directhex> pwnguin, i'd want to hear about that
[07:34] <nxvl> well
[07:34] <nxvl> need to sleep
[07:34] <nxvl> see you
[07:34] <nxvl> oh
[07:34] <nxvl> i was almost forgeting
[07:34] <directhex> wgrant, i generally need an API reference open at all times
[07:34] <StevenK> pwnguin: New MOTU -> Developers -/> Eclipse ?
[07:34] <nxvl> dholbach: did you try to bouild augeas?
[07:35] <directhex> the joys of vodka as a student
[07:35] <nxvl> build*
[07:36] <wgrant> Hmmm, did KDE devs take over GNOME for Intrepid? I just found... a nested menu.
[07:36] <StevenK> pwnguin: Most developers I know wouldn't touch Eclipse with a large barge pole
[07:36] <wgrant> (in Applications)
[07:36] <wgrant> StevenK: Same.
[07:37] <nxvl> mm
[07:38] <nxvl> i think he isn't here
[07:38] <pwnguin> StevenK: is that because it sucks, or because they wouldn't even want to end up where it's supposed to be going?
[07:38] <nxvl> dholbach: if you try to build it and build/fails, please drop me an email. Thanks!
[07:38] <StevenK> pwnguin: Because they don't need or want an IDE.
[07:38] <nxvl> good night!
[07:38] <dholbach> nxvl: will do
[07:38] <persia> pwnguin: Typically people who are good upstream developers are not also good package maintainers: there are different concerns for each activity, and by working collaboratively, the two tend to create a better final product.
[07:38] <nxvl> and have a nice day
[07:38] <wgrant> What does an IDE give me that Vim doesn't?
[07:38] <wgrant> Other than bloat?
[07:39] <nxvl> dholbach: oh! so you didn't have change to test it yesterday?
[07:39] <nxvl> ok
[07:39] <nxvl> if you find some time to do it today, let me know :D
[07:39] <persia> wgrant: GUI Integration.
[07:39]  * nxvl HUGS dholbach 
[07:39] <wgrant> persia: For developing GUIs, you mean?
[07:39] <moosepants> wgrant: I dont care about you in particular. However, many companies employing grad students use eclispe because the students are very familiar with it. Thats a sizable market for Ubuntu, that might go elsewhere to get the Eclipse support
[07:40] <pwnguin> i think i've not commiunicated something essential here: I'm not saying existing MOTU should use eclipse.
[07:40] <wgrant> If I'm using Vim there's no GUI to integrate with.
[07:40] <persia> wgrant: I mean little clicky buttons to build your project with the target build system, launch the debugger, etc.
[07:40]  * persia uses vim
[07:40] <StevenK> But we just take upstream Eclipse ...
[07:40] <wgrant> moosepants: Are these problems Ubuntu-specific?
[07:40] <nxvl> persia: true, maintaining a package and developing one are 2 REALLY different tasks
[07:41] <wgrant> persia: Oh goody. Clicky click click.
[07:41] <persia> nxvl: Yep, but complementary.
[07:41] <nxvl> persia: indeed
[07:41] <wgrant> Programmers have to write code, so why do so many have a phobia of typing in their editor?
[07:41] <pwnguin> heh
[07:41] <pwnguin> well, you'd be offended by my latest idea then
[07:41] <persia> wgrant: One doesn't need to write code with an advanced IDE.  One only draws the widgets, drags the actions, and uses the default autobuilder.
[07:41] <wgrant> I'm offended by a lot of GUIs which make things 'easier'.
[07:42] <wgrant> persia: Ew. No.
[07:42] <pwnguin> im all for 'easier'
[07:42] <persia> I've even seen some that let you draw UML, and develop the application on your behalf.
[07:42] <pwnguin> unless you had some ironic meaning behind easier
[07:42] <StevenK> So have I, but not under Linux, thankfully.
[07:42] <persia> pwnguin: As someone who has used a number of different UML -> code generators, I find vim easier: at least I can track down a bug.
[07:43]  * pwnguin hates UML
[07:43] <pwnguin> but thats another story
[07:43] <persia> pwnguin: But surely it's easier to draw some interfaces and state diagrams than to write code...
[07:43] <moosepants> Hometime Ciao
[07:43] <wgrant> pwnguin: I quoted 'easier' for a reason.
[07:44] <wgrant> pwnguin: I don't see how searching around to work out which icon means "Build damnit" or whatever should be any easier than typing 'make', for a programmer.
[07:44] <pwnguin> unless its' ant
[07:44] <pwnguin> or scons
[07:45] <wgrant> pwnguin: But then you've probably made an infrastructure choice mistake.
[07:45] <lifeless> :)
[07:45] <pwnguin> ive done nothing of the sort, but upstream may have
[07:45] <persia> pwnguin: If upstream did that, you probably wanted make anyway, to parse debian/rules
[07:46] <pwnguin> true
[07:49] <pwnguin> i'll put it on my todo to write a coherent essay on why build tools lead to a better ubuntu above and beyond fixing a few bugs in eclipse or whatnot ;)
[07:49] <\sh> moins
[07:50] <wgrant> pwnguin: Shouldn't one lobby the Eclipse developers to fix Eclipse?
[07:50] <devfil> persia: are you ready to review a package similar to wxwidgets2.8?
[07:51] <persia> devfil: Not at all.  Which package?
[07:51]  * persia is a little frightened
[07:51] <devfil> persia: crystalspace, I'm working to make it human..
[07:52] <pwnguin> wgrant: yes. but even the project lead is lobbying Eclipse developers to fix eclipse :(
[07:52] <wgrant> pwnguin: So it's unlikely to haelp if we do.
[07:52] <wgrant> devfil: That would be very good, but brave.
[07:53] <devfil> wgrant: I'm working to fix some lintian warnings and I've done
[07:53] <persia> devfil: I'll wish you luck.  I can't say I'm as familiar with that as I am with WX, so I'm not sure how well I can review it.
[07:55] <devfil> persia: if wx required 3 MOTUs, this will require a review of almost 6 MOTUs
[07:58] <persia> devfil: Maybe, but at least this doesn't have as many rdepends :)
[07:58] <devfil> persia: sure :)
[08:18] <tacone> hello, I am trying to figure out how produce a diff.gz anyone willing to help me ?
[08:19] <persia> tacone: Sure.
[08:19] <tacone> oh, nice.
[08:19] <persia> My memory is that you were updating an existing package.  Is that correct?
[08:20] <tacone> persia: yes.
[08:20] <tacone> persia: but the source changed a lot
[08:20] <persia> Does the package already have an get-orig-source rule?
[08:20] <tacone> persia: totally different dir structure.
[08:20] <tacone> persia: I don't see it in debian/rules
[08:20] <persia> tacone: Doesn't really matter what happened upstream: that can be mitigatd.
[08:21] <persia> Right.  OK, first step is to create a get-orig-source rule in debian/rules
[08:21] <persia> This rule should construct an orig.tar.gz file based on the newest available upstream.
[08:21] <persia> Is there a watch file?
[08:21] <tacone> persia: no watch file
[08:22] <persia> OK.  How does upstream distribute the code?
[08:22] <tacone> launchpad
[08:22] <tacone> bzr branch
[08:22] <persia> Does upstream distribute tarballs for the project releases?
[08:22] <tacone> let me check
[08:23] <tacone> persia: not yet.
[08:23] <persia> tacone: OK.  First step is to get them to do that.
[08:24] <persia> It's important that there is a single official upstream tarball.  Not having that leads to lots of confusion if the package ever gets into any other distribution.
[08:24] <tacone> persia: am I blocked until then ?
[08:25] <persia> tacone: Not completely, but likely.  Some sponsors will upload with an untrusted orig.tar.gz, but most won't, and very few will before there's evidence of discussion with upstream to try to get one.
[08:26] <tacone> persia: couldn't we simulate I have a tarball and go through the steps anyway ?
[08:27] <tacone> persia: I can obtain a tarball later, just asking for that. I know the upstream author.
[08:27] <persia> tacone: OK, but you'll need to create the tarball.
[08:27] <tacone> I will.
[08:28] <tacone> persia: I did one before with debuild I guess
[08:28] <tacone> in one of my previous attempts. looks fine.
[08:28] <persia> tacone: No, you need to do one with tar.  It's an upstream tarball.
[08:28] <tacone> ok
[08:29] <tacone> how should I call it ? .orig ?
[08:31] <tacone> persia: should I call it memaker-0.9.5 or memaker-0.9.5.orig ?
[08:33] <persia> tacone: You want memaker_0.9.5.orig.tar.gz
[08:33] <tacone> err, yes
[08:33] <tacone> ok done
[08:33] <tacone> persia: another question before we proceed. the current mantainer is peter savage. shuold I keep it or change it to ubuntu-motu ?
[08:34] <Hobbsee> dholbach: currently, my answer to that is that i have limited time, and i've got other stuff that i'd like to see happen.  at this point, a lot of that is outside of ubuntu.  That being said, i've not forgotten how messy the sponsorship queue used to get, and it's low S/N ratio, and it's somewhat hard to get beyond that.  ie, i don't want to waste time on it, if it's not actually in order.
[08:36] <dholbach> Hobbsee: do you have the feeling that a lot of proposed patches still need more work?
[08:37] <kahrytan> Hello
[08:38] <Hobbsee> dholbach: i have the feeling of that, yes, having seen them last cycle.  However, i've not looked at it this cycle, and things may have changed - as in, hopefully those people from last cycle have become more clueful, and the people who are new also have some level of clue.
[08:38] <kahrytan> has anyone seen DreamLinux's installer>
[08:38] <Hobbsee> kahrytan: wrong place.  we don't write the installer.
[08:39] <kahrytan> then who?
[08:39] <dholbach> Hobbsee: right now I have the feeling that we've a LOT OF GOOD STUFF in the sponsoring queue - I don't have to ping people back a lot
[08:40] <Hobbsee> kahrytan: evand is the installer guy.  he might not be up yet.
[08:40] <dholbach> there's also #ubuntu-installer
[08:41] <wgrant> Wow. That's impressively outdated.
[08:41] <wgrant> They have Beryl.
[08:45] <persia_ume> tacone: My apologies: I'm having an IO storm.  Did you get the orig.tar.gz?
[08:45] <tacone> yes
[08:46] <persia_ume> Great.  Next step is to try to apply the old diff.gz against the new upstream.  First thing to do is look to see
[08:46] <persia_ume> what is in the diff.gz.  Check to see if there is anything outside debian/ with lsdiff -z
[08:47] <tacone> guess I am already lost
[08:48] <persia_ume> tacone: You have the old diff.gz, right?
[08:48] <tacone> persia_ume:  memaker_0.9.4-0ubuntu1.diff.gz ?
[08:48] <persia_ume> Right.  Inspect that file with lsdiff -z
[08:49] <tacone> nothing outside debian. seems natural, the previous version was the initial packaging.
[08:49] <persia_ume> tacone: OK.  Anything in debian/patches ?
[08:49] <tacone> nothing.
[08:50] <tacone> persia_ume:  http://pastebin.com/m4f7a13cc
[08:50] <persia_ume> Great.  Now untar the upstream tarball into a directory with the name memaker-0.9.5
[08:50] <tacone> ok
[08:51]  * persia_ume wants the mouse pointer to stop shifting every 10 seconds, and Alt-F2 to actually be received :(
[08:51] <tacone> persia_ume: untarring the new one ?
[08:51] <tacone> 0.9.5 or 0.9.4 ?
[08:51] <persia_ume> Now, in the upstream directory, run zcat ../memaker*diff.gz | patch -p1
[08:52] <persia_ume> The new one.
[08:52] <tacone> no new /debian for now ?
[08:53] <persia_ume> tacone: You'll want to start from the old debian/, which is in the old diff.gz, which the above command wil a
[08:53] <persia_ume> will apply
[08:54] <tacone> I ran ﻿zcat ../memaker*diff.gz | patch -p1
[08:54] <persia_ume> and now you have a debian/ directory?
[08:55] <tacone> guess I missed on change of dir
[08:55] <tacone> trying again
[08:55] <tacone> ok
[08:55] <persia_ume> You want to run the command in memaker-0.9.5/
[08:55] <tacone> I have debian now
[08:55] <tacone> yes
[08:55] <persia_ume> next, you want to update the changelog.  use dch -i
[08:56] <tacone> ok
[08:56] <persia_ume> Change the version to 0.9.5-0ubuntu1, the target to hardy, and add your known changes.
[08:57]  * RAOF thinks persia_ume may mean "Intrepid"
[08:57] <persia_ume> Err.  Yes :)
[08:57] <persia_ume> muscle memory is a frustrating thing.
[08:57] <tacone> persia this is ok ?
[08:57] <tacone>   * Upstream source directory structure changed.
[08:57] <tacone>   * Now depends from python2.5 See: LP: #214401
[08:58] <Gralco> can anyone help me with trying to get into the motu team
[08:58] <persia_ume> I'd have said "New Upstream Version" for the first line, but otherwise, yes.
[08:58] <tacone> persia: http://pastebin.com/m294d3ccc
[08:58] <tacone> do I miss any blank line or some formatting ?
[08:59] <persia_ume> Gralco: Best way is to start fixing bugs.
[08:59] <tacone> persia_ume: done
[08:59] <Gralco> persia_ume how do I do that, I have already triage some
[08:59] <persia_ume> tacone: Due to a bug that I thought was fixed, I don't have a good way to tell right now.  Let's assume it to be correct.
[09:00] <tacone> persia_ume: ok
[09:00] <persia_ume> Gralco: Of the bugs you triaged, do you understand any well enough to fix the code to not have the bug?
[09:00] <persia_ume> tacone: Next, review debian/rules to see if the build commands are still correct.
[09:00] <Gralco> persia_eme: no not really
[09:01] <persia_ume> Gralco: That will be the first step then.
[09:01] <tacone> persiai don't have enough knowledge to understand them, but I didn't change the rules, and it builded on pbuilder
[09:02] <Gralco> persia_ume: how do fix the code for the bug
[09:02] <persia_ume> Gralco: It depends on the bug, but usually with a text editor.
[09:02] <tacone> something wrong in the rules.
[09:03] <persia_ume> tacone: OK.  Next is to review debian/copyright and make sure the licensing is still correct.
[09:03] <Gralco> persia_ume: but how would i know what to change in the code
[09:03] <tacone> persia_ume: http://pastebin.com/m5dc596c4
[09:03] <tacone> look at line 28 to 31
[09:03] <tacone> is that required even with pycentral ?
[09:04] <tacone> and btw I changed that path.
[09:04] <persia_ume> Gralco: Understand the bug.  Read the code.  Experiment.
[09:04] <tacone> the copyright seems correct.
[09:04]  * Hobbsee looks at this list.
[09:06] <Gralco> perrsia_ume: is there a with fix a bug
[09:07] <persia> tacone: OK.  If you're confident with those, take a look at debian/control to see if anything needs tweaking.  Changing to python2.5 might have an impact (and might not)
[09:07] <tacone> persia: python2.5 should be ok
[09:08] <tacone> persian should I copy paste the new debian/control ?
[09:08] <tacone> persia: shuold I keep the original mantainer ?
[09:09] <persia> tacone: Is the maintainer not MOTU?
[09:09] <tacone> Pete Savage <petesavage@ubuntu.com>
[09:09] <tacone> persia: also, I already have tweaked the /debian dir (using the previous one as the base)
[09:10] <tacone> shuold I simply copy in the changed files ?
[09:11] <persia> If the Maintainer isn't MOTU, you should talk to the maintainer: there is typically a reason for that.
[09:12] <persia> What files changed, beyond changelog?
[09:12] <tacone> memaker.install, control
[09:12] <tacone> I wiped memaker.dirs
[09:12] <tacone> nothing more.
[09:13] <persia> OK.  If you're sure about those changes, no reason you can't reapply them.  Just be sure.
[09:13] <tacone> sure
[09:13] <Hobbsee> dholbach: right.  done 2 (which close 2 other bugs too)
[09:13] <persia> Once you are done, you can create the updated source package with debuild -S -us -uc
[09:13]  * dholbach high-fives Hobbsee :)
[09:14] <tacone> persia: ok. here we are. now ?
[09:14] <persia> tacone: Look in the parent directory.  There should be a diff.gz
[09:14] <tacone> oh
[09:15] <tacone> I missed you're last msg
[09:15] <tacone> n
[09:15] <james_w> hi siretart, we're you planning to work on the backuppc merge, or would you like me to take it>
[09:16] <dholbach> james_w: regarding bug 242781 - should we be able to sync the package soon again?
[09:16] <tacone> persia: I have a pair of warnings
[09:16] <james_w> dholbach: yup, next Debian upload, as long as that doesn't break anything.
[09:17] <tacone> persia: http://pastebin.com/m330dc715
[09:17] <dholbach> james_w: do you think you can point that out in the changelog (if the case should ever occur to you again?) :-)
[09:17] <dholbach> james_w: makes it easier for the next person to do a merge :)
[09:17] <dholbach> anyway - no big deal - taking a look at it now :)
[09:18] <tacone> persia: BTW. I have now  memaker_0.9.5-0ubuntu1.diff.gz. is that the only thing I need to upload in launchpad ?
[09:18] <james_w> dholbach: sure, I was just wary of claiming something that may not be true later on. A good dose of hedging should cover me though.
[09:18]  * james_w hugs dholbach 
[09:18] <persia> tacone: The Original Maintainer issue is because you haven't coordinated with Pete.
[09:18]  * dholbach hugs james_w back :)
[09:19] <persia> The out-of-date-standards-version is because the package hasn't been updated to 3.8.0.  Since you're already packaging a new upstream, now is a good time for the update, but you probably want to revisit your blocking issues (upstream tarball, watch file, talking with non-MOTU maintainer) first.
[09:19] <persia> (well, not that the maintainer is non-MOTU, but that the package is not MOTU-maintained)
[09:21] <tacone> sure. I'll contact him in a short while
[09:21] <tacone> thank you persia
[09:22] <tacone> going afk
[09:22] <tacone> have a good day
[09:23] <siretart> james_w: please go ahead, I'm rather focused on other stuff atm, sorry :(
[09:24] <james_w> siretart: no problem, just checking that you wouldn't mind less work :-)
[09:27] <dholbach> Hobbsee: that's 4-a-day already then :)
[09:41] <Hobbsee> dholbach: please unsub u-u-s from https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sopwith/+bug/242229
[09:41] <dholbach> Hobbsee: want me to make you member of the team?
[09:41] <Hobbsee> dholbach: nope.
[09:41] <Hobbsee> dholbach: i quit the team :P
[09:41] <Hobbsee> dholbach: besides, doing this is already making me cry
[09:41] <Hobbsee> (@ lp)
[09:41] <dholbach> done
[09:42] <Hobbsee> thanks
[09:42] <Hobbsee> so, that's 5, right?  :P
[09:42] <dholbach> :)
[09:43]  * Hobbsee looks at the rest of these sync requests
[09:43] <Hobbsee> zul: shouldn't 241012 be marked fix released?
[09:44] <Hobbsee> ah, yes
[09:45] <DktrKranz> today is DIF, do we need motu-release exception to process merges from now on?
[09:45] <dholbach> no
[09:46] <persia> DktrKranz: No official response has been forthcoming.  One member of motu-release has expressed that there should be no requirement for freeze exception approvals of any sort.
[09:47] <DktrKranz> that's good, I hope this will be clarified a bit, but I think motu-release ACK would be a bottleneck now
[09:47] <Hobbsee> persia: i'll second that.
[09:47] <persia> Yeah.  We've never had that level of review in the past, and imposing it now seems a little heavy.
[09:48] <persia> I don't mind some process, but think it ought be light, and not bottleneck on only a few people (this does not represent an advocation of process, just a willingness to accept sanely proposed process)
[09:48] <DktrKranz> probably we should stop to bring in  heavy transitions with merges
[09:49] <DktrKranz> this would require ACKs, IMO
[09:51] <Hobbsee> dholbach: were you wanting to deal with https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/asterisk-prompt-es/+bug/241395 (looks like you've touched it once)
[09:51] <persia> Maybe.  For Hardy, I proposed that we shouldn't do any transitions affecting more than 10 packages.  We did a couple, but they were painful (we had little choice, given that DIF left us halfway on a couple)
[09:51] <dholbach> Hobbsee: it's free for anybody to deal with it - if I come across it later and somebody else has done it, that'S fine :)
[09:52] <Hobbsee> dholbach: wrong answer :P
[09:52] <dholbach> ... that depends :)
[09:52] <dholbach> soren: do you have an opinion about bug 241395?
[09:55]  * Hobbsee wonders where sebner is
[09:57] <DktrKranz> Hobbsee: at school (exams)
[09:58] <Hobbsee> DktrKranz: ahh
[09:58] <DktrKranz> He's busy with real life right now (even if it doesn't seem so)
[10:03]  * Hobbsee hits the bug with the wontfix stick.
[10:04] <dholbach> Hobbsee: 241395?
[10:04] <Hobbsee> dholbach: nope
[10:04] <dholbach> ah ok
[10:04] <Hobbsee> dholbach: soundkonverter
[10:04] <dholbach> nm then
[10:05] <Gralco> i dont understand how to fix bugs
[10:05]  * Hobbsee scratches head.
[10:05] <Hobbsee> sebner does the weirdest fakesync bugs.
[10:06] <Hobbsee> well, patches.
[10:06] <Hobbsee> oh, hm.
[10:09] <Hobbsee> this...doesn't make sense.
[10:10] <Hobbsee> and there's no rainct.
[10:10] <Gralco> ahhhhh its 5 am
[10:10] <Hobbsee> dholbach: now, if we've taken a package from debian, and made changes to it...why do we have a differing tarball to debian now?
[10:11] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Which package?
[10:11] <Hobbsee> shouldn't the changes be made in the .diff.gz, and not modifying the original tarball?
[10:11] <wgrant> That shouldn't possible unless we've got a new upstream
[10:11] <Hobbsee> wgrant: boson
[10:11] <dholbach> Hobbsee: sometimes it's a new upstream version we shipped before (repacked tarball, etc)
[10:11] <Hobbsee> wgrant: we don't.  that's why i'm wondering.
[10:11] <persia> Hobbsee: Happens sometimes if we grab upstream first.
[10:11] <Hobbsee> persia: it doesn't look like we have, though.
[10:11] <sistpoty|work> hi folks
[10:12] <wgrant> Ehem.
[10:12] <wgrant> Hobbsee: \sh made a versioning mistake.
[10:12] <Hobbsee> at least, not this time.
[10:12] <wgrant> boson (0.13-1ubuntu1) feisty; urgency=low
[10:12] <wgrant> * new upstream release
[10:12] <persia> wgrant: That wasn't based on the experimental version?
[10:12] <Hobbsee> wgrant: look one down.
[10:13] <wgrant> persia: The changelog doesn't say it was.
[10:13]  * wgrant checks.
[10:13] <wgrant> persia: Ah, it was.
[10:13] <persia> Hmm.  What does "nativied" mean?
[10:13] <Hobbsee> persia: i presume it's denglish for "made native"
[10:14] <persia> Hobbsee: In which case, it would explain differing tarballs, if we're native, and debian isn't.
[10:14] <wgrant> Ahaha.
[10:14] <wgrant> I see.
[10:15] <wgrant> Debian 0.13-1 was native.
[10:15] <wgrant> So our 0.13-1ubuntu1 has an Ubuntu-created upstream tarball.
[10:15] <wgrant> So he made it non-native.
[10:16] <wgrant> Nice of Debian to not note that change in the 0.13-2 changelog...
[10:16] <\sh> hmm?
[10:16] <\sh> wgrant: what?
[10:16] <persia> Aha!  That would do it.
[10:16] <persia> \sh: boson
[10:17] <persia> wgrant: Likely the result of svn-buildpackage confusion and brown paper bags.
[10:17] <\sh> oh darn
[10:17] <wgrant> persia: And ignoring dpkg-buildpackage warnings...
[10:18] <persia> wgrant: Well, sure.
[10:20] <txwikinger> Does anybody know whty the package freeguide is in multiverse instead of universe even it seems to be gplv2?
[10:20] <slytherin> txwikinger: as far as I know it needs Sun java to build and run which is in multiverse
[10:21] <slytherin> txwikinger: last time I checked it doen't build with any Free java compilers/sdk
[10:21] <txwikinger> hmm.. I think the questioner stated that it works with openjdk
[10:22] <txwikinger> ok.. I will give an answer.. thanks a lot
[10:22] <slytherin> txwikinger: is there any bug for this?
[10:22] <slytherin> txwikinger: or help ticket?
[10:22] <txwikinger> No a question
[10:22] <txwikinger> yes .. help ticket
[10:22] <devfil> persia: ping
[10:23]  * \sh wasn't wrong then? ;)
[10:23] <Hobbsee> wgrant: deal with it, if you feel so inclined :)
[10:23] <slytherin> txwikinger: Tell him if he is sure it works then file a bug, some one will look into it
[10:23] <txwikinger> I will say  when the decision had to be made it was not running with any free java environment but this will be looked at again
[10:23] <txwikinger> and I can create a bug fot looking at it again
[10:24] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Deal with what?
[10:24] <Hobbsee> wgrant: boson
[10:24] <slytherin> txwikinger: Ask him to file a bug and also make sure that his 'java' binary does not point to sun java. He may have both installed and thught that it works with openjdk
[10:24] <wgrant> Hobbsee: I'm unfortunately studying for my last exam tomorrow.
[10:24] <Hobbsee> wgrant: oh darn.  i thought yours were over!
[10:24] <txwikinger> slytherin: right
[10:24] <wgrant> Hobbsee: One more tomorrow.
[10:28] <Gralco> going to bed guys
[10:28] <Gralco> night
[10:33] <slytherin> persia: free for a quick review? geser has already advocated package
[10:33] <persia> slytherin: Not now: I'm prepping for a class in a bit.  Maybe afterwards, but I've a frustrating backlog.
[10:34] <slytherin> persia: what class? in #ubuntu-classroom?
[10:36] <devfil> persia: if you want to take a look at crystalspace: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/crystalspace/+bug/242961
[10:38] <persia> slytherin: reading and using apport retraces.
[11:11] <james_w> Apport session starting now in #ubuntu-classroom if anyone is interested.
[11:21] <Hobbsee> and another done
[11:21] <Hobbsee> smarter: hey there
[11:26] <soren> dholbach: Hmm... I'm not sure at all, but it /looks/ sane.
[11:26] <dholbach> soren: Ok
[11:31] <smarter> hey Hobbsee
[11:40] <siretart> question from #ubuntu-classrom: what was the bug number of the nicotine bug again? (sorry, I arrived late)?
[11:49] <dholbach> siretart: https://launchpad.net/bugs/180363
[11:53] <siretart> thanks
[12:05] <slytherin> Does anyone have any idea why do I always get - RPC failed on the node 'ejabberd@pspl1-desktop': nodedown - error on my ejabberd instalation?
[12:38] <Laney> Are we in DIF yet or is there still time for a cheeky merge or two? ;)
[12:38] <dholbach> there's definitely time for a merge or two :)
[12:39] <Laney> \o/
[12:39] <BugMaN> hi dholbach :)
[12:39] <dholbach> hi BugMaN
[12:39] <gnomefreak> good morning dholbach
[12:39] <dholbach> hi gnomefreak
[12:39] <directhex> still waiting for some packages i prepped to hit debian. i really don't want to go for a 0ubuntu1 package
[12:39] <BugMaN> dholbach: i subscribe many bug to italian translator team :)
[12:39]  * dholbach -> walking the dog + lunch (STARVING)
[12:40] <dholbach> BugMaN: good luck with getting them all fixed! :)
[12:40] <BugMaN> dholbach: yeah
[12:40] <gnomefreak> dholbach: i sent someone here he has a bzr branch and has been building it. He wants it added to intrepid he filed a bug report and i told him to talk to someine in -motu to see what else he needs to do
[12:41] <dholbach> gnomefreak: if he follows https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess all should be good
[12:41]  * dholbach really gets lunch now :)
[12:41] <gnomefreak> dholbach: thanks and have a good lunch
[12:50] <sebner> persia: you may remember that today is DIF (uqm) ;)
[12:50] <sebner> norsetto: huhu
[12:51] <persia> sebner: Yep, and I'm prepared to break the rules to get it both correct and a sync, as I know I'm not going to be able to work on it until the weekend.
[12:52] <sebner> persia: ^^ kk
[12:53] <ScottK> directhex: Then you should wait.  There's no rule saying a sync can't be requested when it's appropriate.
[12:54] <sebner> persia: and what happens if a package doesn't get merged until DIF? Then we need a Exception?
[12:54] <persia> sebner: Anything that isn't merged by DIF is officially late.
[12:54] <ScottK> sebner: To the extent an exception is needed it means some developer thinks it's worth uploading.
[12:55] <sebner> ah kay
[12:56] <Hobbsee> sebner: i dealt with one of your bugs today.  soundkonverter, iirc.
[12:56] <sebner> Hobbsee: Ah true, I read
[12:58] <sebner> ScottK: is that a sign if at least one sponsor refuses to upload my stuff to force me to apply? ^^
[12:59] <persia> sebner: Bug number?
[13:00] <sebner> persia: ah you want to upload the other stuff but not uqm xD
[13:01] <persia> sebner: Right.  I won't upload uqm because it will be a sync as soon as I figure out enough about git.
[13:01] <sebner> persia: ah true, to told me. ^^
[13:02] <sebner> persia: bug #225626
[13:09] <sebner> tseliot: alberto! Intrepid is unstable. stopp testing new nvidia driver and upload it :P  (Please) :)
[13:10] <tseliot> ﻿sebner: there are still decisions which we have to make. I doesn't depend only on me
[13:11] <sebner> tseliot: kay but you have packages ready you told me =) I just don't want to manual install it. so dirty ..
[13:13] <tseliot> ﻿sebner: don't worry, I can't distribute them yet
[13:13] <sebner> persia: I also can offer you 3 merges and a fakesync =)
[13:13] <sebner> tseliot: them. since my exams are over and I'm waiting since days/weeks to play games again :\
[13:13] <sebner> *damn xD
[13:14] <tseliot> sebner: sorry but we have to make sure that nothing breaks despite NVIDIA's behaviour
[13:15] <sebner> tseliot: did I say that intrepid is unstable? ^^ ok ok np. I understand your concerns. any est plan?
[13:16] <tseliot> ﻿sebner: unstable, ok, but deliberately breaking it (with consequences on future updates) is not an option
[13:17] <sebner> tseliot: okay. so you also can't tell an estimated release date?
[13:18] <tseliot> ﻿sebner: no, sorry
[13:18] <sebner> ok np
[13:18] <sebner> tseliot: thanks for the informations
[13:21] <colinl> hello
[13:21] <colinl> \sh: there's been no activity on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/claws-mail/+bug/241587 , is anything going wrong with it?
[13:23] <\sh> colinl: nope...I didn't had the time to deal with it...
[13:23] <colinl> ok :)
[13:23] <\sh> colinl: I'll try that tomorrow...promised
[13:23] <colinl> thanks!
[13:23] <sebner> \sh: I merged gnunet for you :) you may want to review it?
[13:24] <\sh> sebner: assign the bug to me :)
[13:24] <sebner> fine thx
[13:26] <sebner> \sh: now you are subscribed and assigned xD
[13:34] <norsetto> any motu-sru member wishing to check bug 242635?
[13:38] <DktrKranz> norsetto: in intrepid you uploaded only --oknodo, is the other point already fixed?
[13:39] <norsetto> DktrKranz: it is
[13:39] <norsetto> DktrKranz: sorry, I should have mentioned that
[13:39] <Falken> Hi MOTU, my package is looking for reviewers ! see http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=flabber
[13:39] <Falken> thank you !
[13:42] <DktrKranz> norsetto: done.
[13:42] <norsetto> DktrKranz: danke
[13:42] <DktrKranz> go and destroy 8.04.1! :)
[13:57] <Ng> the import freeze is pretty soon, isn't it
[13:58] <Ng> presumably it's still possible to have things synced across after that? Terminator isn't going to have a release today or tomorrow, but we should do in the next week or two and would very very much like to get that in intrepid (actually it's possible we might manage another release before october and that would be our 1.0)
[13:59] <Hobbsee> yes, i'ts possible.
[14:00] <persia> Ng: Anything not merged by DIF is officially late.  That said, feature Freeze isn't for a bit, so it's not too hard to get an update in, as long as it doesn't break too much, or someone really wants it.
[14:00] <persia> Past FeatureFreeze, it gets hard.
[14:03] <Ng> persia: we've got people testing packages of the new one from PPA so we should catch any regressions
[14:05] <persia> Ng: Excellent :)  Note that in addition to regressions, there's possible impact on other things: in the case of terminator, I expect those to be mild.
[14:07] <Ng> persia: yeah, nothing should be depending on us or anything like that
[14:07] <Ng> thanks
[14:18] <sebner> norsetto: Josh sent flightgear icons to me xD The bad news are that he doesn't run this site anymore. The good news are that he will (try) to include the png's into the cvs repo
[14:18] <norsetto> sebner: ok, good news at last
[14:19] <sebner> norsetto: to I can point to the cvs repo in the copyright file?
[14:19] <norsetto> sebner: no, is he mentoning something in his email about copyright for the icons?
[14:21] <sebner> norsetto: unfortunately not
[14:22] <norsetto> sebner: well, then I think we have to forget about his icons for the time being, we need a clear statement that we can use his work
[14:23] <sebner> norsetto: well, I'll ask him again and we just ignore/break DIF
[14:27] <\sh> sebner: you are running intrepid?
[14:27] <sebner> \sh: yes and I tested the gnunet la. thing ;)
[14:29] <\sh> sebner: just asking
[14:30] <sebner> \sh: pfff. I'm a u-u-c guy xD
[14:32] <sebner> \sh: though I'm wondering why we don't want the dependency line in the .la files
[14:36] <Laney> geser: Don't suppose you remember this change? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/vegastrike/0.4.3.debian-1ubuntu2 - would it have been to fix a FTBFS?
[14:39] <mouz> What channel would be best to ask questions about ISO testing (intrepid)? I tried #ubuntu-testing but no answers there (not many people in it btw).
[14:40] <rproenca> mouz: maybe -devel?
[14:40] <mouz> rproenca: ok, i will try -devel
[14:44] <rproenca> is there anyone here with a couple of minutes willing to sponsor an upload for me?
[14:45] <ScottK> rproenca: Put it in a bug and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
[14:47] <Hobbsee> dholbach: 11 bugs done today.  do i get an award?  :P
[14:47] <rproenca> ScottK: OK. It fixes what was mentioned in this bug comment here https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/aptoncd/+bug/159721/comments/32
[14:48]  * ScottK looks
[14:48] <persia> mouz: -testing is likely the right place, especially if you're using the tracker, but it's not a very active channel, and mostly in UTC+5-10 timezones.
[14:49] <persia> Err.  UTC-5 to UTC-10 timezones
[14:49]  * dholbach hugs Hobbsee
[14:49] <ScottK> rproenca: Then attach the updated debdiff to that bug.
[14:49] <dholbach> :)
[14:50] <rproenca> ScottK: I will do that. Thank you.
[14:55] <Laney> Don't suppose I could be cheeky and ask someone to last-minute-before-dif-sponsor bug #243241 for me please? I wouldn't usually but it's blocking the vegastrike merge. ;)
[14:55] <sebner> norsetto: Yes, these are my work, but derivative of the banner at
[14:55] <sebner> www.flightgear.org. The entire FlightGear project is GPL'd, so these
[14:55] <sebner> would fall under that license as well.
[14:57] <persia> Laney: Are you doing vegastrike and vegastrike-data as two different bugs?  Can they not be done together?
[14:58] <norsetto> sebner: ok, just mention author, copyright and license in debian/copyright if you want to include them in this release. Once (and if) we get them in the tarball they should be covered by the tarball license
[15:00] <norsetto> sebner: and of course keep all the emails archived for future reference ...
[15:02] <sebner> norsetto: sure, if I include them I just copy them/it to debian/ ? But we are still using the .xpm icon?
[15:02] <norsetto> sebner: you can't (yet) ship a binary in debian/
[15:03] <sebner> norsetto: so I point to the cvs?
[15:03] <persia> Rather, you can't (yet) ship a binary in diff.gz.  Shipping in debian works just fine.
[15:03] <directhex> uuencode!
[15:03] <persia> You can ship foo.png.uu, and build-depend on sharutils in order to uudecode it at build-time.
[15:04] <norsetto> sebner: if you want to include the icon you have two choises: either convert it to a text readable format (xpm, svg, etc) or uuencode it and uudecode it at build time
[15:04] <norsetto> sebner: which is a longer version of what persia said
[15:04] <persia> .sng works for that as well.
[15:05] <Laney> persia: Well, they're two packages so I'm doing them as two bugs
[15:05] <persia> Although with .sng, you still have to construct .png at build time (this requires imagemagick)
[15:05] <sebner> norsetto: we have already a xpm. so to save time I think we use it again for now and the next release hopefully includes the png files already
[15:05] <norsetto> sebner: so, if the xpm we have already is derived from that png, we are ok
[15:05] <Laney> If it doesn't have to be done like that then I guess I can request sponsorship as one
[15:05] <persia> Laney: I'd do them as one bug, just because they really need to get uploaded together.
[15:05] <Laney> (although I suspect vegastrike is going to turn out to be a sync)
[15:06] <persia> I certainly hope vegastrike is a sync.  Are you sure that vegatrike-data still suffers from the python issues with 2.5?
[15:06] <sebner> norsetto: as I said ^^but I still point to the cvs where the png is
[15:07] <norsetto> sebner: what do you mean point? you mean add the link as a download location for the icon? Is the icon there already?
[15:07] <sebner> norsetto: I don't think that this goes so fast
[15:08] <norsetto> sebner: so, what do you want to point!?
[15:08] <Laney> persia: Has the behaviour of 2.5 changed in this respect?
[15:08] <sebner> norsetto: just to the cvs repo where the icon will be in a few days?
[15:09] <rproenca> StevenK: and what if I wanted to release that package as a new upstream version (I am the application developer, btw) in Intrepid? The thing is that I have changed several things in the source code in the bzr tree and I think it is time to release those changes into Ubuntu's repository as well. Additionally I've updated the translations (synced from rosetta)
[15:09] <persia> Laney: Unfortunately, I've run into sufficient airflow issues that I don't play anymore, so I can't say.  On the other hand, I thought I pushed all the changes to Debian SVN when last I merged (although I may be mistaken)
[15:09] <norsetto> sebner: sure, write that in copyright: "the icon would have been downloaded from this cvs, its just that its not there yet, but I was promised it will be there ... eventually"
[15:09] <rproenca> StevenK: let's say, 0.1.98-1, against the current 0.1.98-0 in intrepid
[15:10] <sebner> norsetto: seems that copyright things are really really strict :\
[15:12] <persia> sebner: In many parts of the world, violation is sufficient justification for restrictions of liberty.
[15:12] <sebner> persia: I understand that copyright things are really important though most users don't even know that there is a copyright file or are interested in such things ..
[15:13] <Laney> persia: The Debian package at least doesn't have this patch, that's all I can say. It's also the same upstream version, which means IMO that the merge and sync can go ahead separately.
[15:13] <persia> sebner: Maybe, but it's still not nice to give somebody something for free, and have them become guilty of receiving stolen merchanidse.
[15:14] <sebner> kk
[15:18] <sebner> norsetto: so I'm fine if I just ship it in debian/. as persia said that's allowed. and take your .xpm again
[15:19] <Laney> persia: Ah, it looks as though the bug (bug #95932) was against 2.5 anyway
[15:20] <persia> sebner: It's permitted to ship binaries in debian, but you can only technically do it if you happen to be upstream, and include debian/ (which we don't like).  In nearly every case, debian/ is entirely within diff.gz, which cannot handle binaries.
[15:20] <norsetto> sebner: make sure that the xpm we have already was derived from the same png, or do it again yourself, or ask for the png to huats if you want to be 100% sure
[15:20] <sebner> norsetto: yes but I have to link to the png in copyright. That's my problem
[15:21] <sebner> persia: ah kk
[15:21] <huats> norsetto and sebner hello guys
[15:21] <huats> hey persia
[15:21] <sebner> hu huats
[15:21] <persia> Laney: Right, I just thought upstream might have fixed it differently.
[15:21] <persia> Good afternoon huats.
[15:21] <sebner> huats: I suppose it was fg-128.png :P
[15:21] <norsetto> sebner: why? Just say that "the icon blah blah is derived from the icon blah blah with permission from the original author blah blah"
[15:22] <huats> persia: when was the apport session this morning ?
[15:22] <huats> I went to the meeting room many times
[15:22] <huats> and I never saw it :(
[15:22] <sebner> norsetto: bah and why do you always told me that I have to show a link where the png can be downloaded?
[15:22] <norsetto> huats: 10 UTC, and it was in #ubuntu-classroom ;-)
[15:22] <huats> sebner: you suppose well (AFAIR)
[15:22] <sebner> huats: I'll check, thx
[15:22] <huats> norsetto: rrrrggggg I went to -meeting :(
[15:23] <norsetto> sebner: do you have such a link? (no) do you want to ship that icon already? (yes) so, what else do you want?
[15:24] <persia> huats: 10:00 UTC, but in -classroom.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/IntrepretingApportRetraces
[15:24] <sebner> norsetto: I thought we have to show *always* a link and if we don't have one -> waiting
[15:24] <norsetto> sebner: you can't have the butter and the money for the butter (ask huats what it means, but don't let him tell you the rest, you are too young for that ...)
[15:25] <sebner> hrhr
[15:25] <sebner> norsetto: thx for all the help. I'll have a debdiff ready in time :)
[15:27] <huats> ;)
[15:27] <huats> thanks persia
[15:28] <persia> huats: Feel free to ask if you have any questions after review.  I don't have nicotine in front of me anymore, but would be happy to answer.
[15:29] <huats> :)
[15:29] <huats> thanks persia
[15:29] <huats> I'll have a look tonight I think
[15:30] <huats> and I am sure it will be really interesting
[15:31]  * norsetto thinks that, somehow, "I don't have nicotine in front of me anymore" sounds funny
[15:50] <erUSUL> why on earth would a openssl security update require a reboot???
[16:08] <geser> Laney: re vegastrike: I don't remember this change anymore. But from the changelog I'd say it was when I a FF exception for boost and needed to rebuild everything with it and needed to touch/update this patches.
[16:09] <Laney> geser: Right, thanks. I guess we can go with Debian again now then
[16:20] <geser> Laney: if it's the only change and the Debian package builds in intrepid then yes
[16:20] <Laney> geser: Well, not the only change, but all of the others are OK to sync too.
[16:20] <Laney> and yes, it b/i/r/ fine (with the vegastrike-data merge)
[16:22] <persia> Well, and the boost changes that already happened :)
[16:22] <DRebellion> Could someone spare a moment to review my package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=monkeystudio thanks ;)
[16:29] <Laney> Merging is great for finding fun games
[16:29]  * Laney gets addicted to xdigger
[16:35] <norsetto> I guess this is a record, complaining that we don't have yet a fix committed upstream 22hrs ago
[16:36] <persia> norsetto: Sometimes we get them at the same time :)
[17:08]  * sistpoty|work heads home
[17:08] <sistpoty|work> cya
[17:14] <norsetto> persia: should I expect an answer to my last email?
[17:15] <persia> norsetto: You should, and within the next couple hours.
[17:15] <persia> (it's near the top of my list)
[17:15] <norsetto> persia: ok, thx
[18:00] <angelo> tacone????
[18:01] <angelo> mi hanno mandato qui
[18:01] <jpds> !it | angelo
[18:03] <norsetto> there is actually an italian film whose title is "Mi ha mandato tacone"
[18:04] <jpds> norsetto: Oh, I'll remember that for next time.
[18:05] <norsetto> or was that "Mi ha mandato Picone" ? Oh well
[18:06] <norsetto> yeah, "mi manda Picone": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087716/
[19:03] <Saj0577> Ubuland - Free hosting For ubuntu/open source users if your intrested please join #ubuland we need some input from potential users.
[20:07] <rzr> Jazzva: around ?
[20:07] <rzr> Jazzva: I managed to build jabbin
[20:08] <Jazzva> rzr: I'm here... Go ahead and upload to REVU, and reassign the needs packaging bug :)
[20:09] <rzr> I am about to see if the debian voip team is interessed into comaintaining it
[20:09] <Jazzva> ok
[20:10] <rzr> would you like to help on this too ?
[20:11] <Jazzva> rzr: sure, but I can't before Saturday...
[20:11] <rzr> take your time
[20:12] <rzr> i am about to prepare my holidays too
[20:12] <Jazzva> Ok, I'll ping you on Saturday to see how can I help you.
[20:13] <tillux> I'm still trying to build a .deb package from source.tar.gz or svn-sources... the package I want to build is a library (cegui); If I do not edit anything in the debian/ folder except the control file, I'll get .debs just containing the docs... if I edit the debian/rules file (uncomment #dh_install) dpkg-buildpackage will exit with an error: "﻿dh_install: cegui-dev missing files (usr/include/*), aborting"
[20:13] <tillux> what's the mistake I made?
[20:14] <rzr> cegui ? is it the one Orgre3d uses ?
[20:15] <tillux> rzr: yes
[20:15] <rzr> ogre is packaged for while no ?
[20:16] <tillux> "for while"?
[20:25] <tillux> anyone?
[20:33] <sebner> norsetto: you don't want it?  ^^
[20:33] <norsetto> sebner: everybody goes through the u-u-s queue, you are not special
[20:34] <sebner> norsetto: not true. I'm not special for *you* ;)
[20:34] <sebner> +just
[20:35] <norsetto> sebner: btw, when you changed the clean rule, you have forgotten to call make clean, or is it not needed anymore?
[20:35] <johanbr> Lutin: I saw you uploaded the 0.23.3 version of Empathy, but it failed to build. Any chance of a new one? I saw the package is in debian unstable.
[20:36] <norsetto> sebner: I also asked you to change the license pointer from GPL to GPL-2
[20:37] <sebner> norsetto: for both? the icon and programm?
[20:37] <tillux> ﻿I'm still trying to build a .deb package from source.tar.gz or svn-sources... the package I want to build is a library (cegui); If I do not edit anything in the debian/ folder except the control file, I'll get .debs just containing the docs... if I edit the debian/rules file (uncomment #dh_install) dpkg-buildpackage will exit with an error: "﻿dh_install: cegui-dev missing files (usr/include/*), aborting"
[20:37] <norsetto> sebner: the pointer to /usr/share/common-licenses
[20:38] <sebner> norsetto: I see. I really forgot it
[20:38] <norsetto> sebner: remember that in the future, GPL now points to GPL-3 by default
[20:42] <Gralco> was there an #ubuntu-classroom session today?
[20:42] <sebner> norsetto: yes, thanks. sry what do you mean with clean?
[20:43] <sebner> huhu ember
[20:43] <sebner> huhu emgent
[20:43] <sebner> ^^
[20:43] <emgent> Hi ember
[20:44] <sebner> norsetto: ah I noticed
[20:45] <norsetto> sebner: see the comment, its also possible that that is not needed anymore, you should check
[20:45] <sebner> norsetto: /me is asking himself how
[20:45] <emgent> hi Cesare, morituri te salutan :)
[20:45] <norsetto> sebner: you can check what both targets are doing, either testing or by checking the code
[20:46] <norsetto> sebner: you can also build twice and check if all files are cleaned by the clean rules
[20:46] <sebner> norsetto: thanks for the hints =)
[20:46] <norsetto> emgent: suicide or a pious soul finally is freeing us from you ;-)
[20:47] <norsetto> sebner: mind you that to do the double build with pbuilder needs you to add an appropriate hook
[20:48] <sebner> norsetto: --save after login?
[20:48] <sebner> *logout
[20:48] <sebner> or something like that xD
[20:48] <norsetto> sebner: nope, a real hook
[20:48] <sebner> norsetto: well I'll check what both targets are doing
[20:49] <emgent> norsetto: lol :)
[20:49] <tillux> humm. why doesn't dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot work correctly, when enablin dh_install in debian/rules ?
[20:50] <norsetto> sebner: raphink did a script for revu some time ago that did that
[20:51] <geser> tillux: in which target is this? not all targets are run as root so fakeroot should fake it
[20:51] <sebner> raphink: around? =)
[20:53] <norsetto> sebner: you can also do it manually, just add a B01 hook which just opens a shell (/bin/bash < /dev/tty > /dev/tty 2> /dev/tty). I've never done it this way, just experiment
[20:56] <tillux> geser: as it's a lib, it ought to be /usr/lib or /usr/local/lib or whatsoever
[21:01] <tacone> norsetto: ?
[21:01] <norsetto> tacone: ?
[21:02] <tacone> I was pinged some year ago by you and angelo
[21:02] <tacone> some hour (but seemed like years :-))
[21:03] <sebner> norsetto: did you see that somebody prepared a (not wanted) debdiff for eggdrop?
[21:05] <norsetto> sebner: yes, he coordinated it with emgent
[21:06] <emgent> true
[21:06] <norsetto> tacone: yeah, I don't know who he is, he just jumped in and looked for you
[21:07] <sebner> norsetto: ah but we didn't want it that way IIRC
[21:08] <norsetto> sebner: its ok, I discussed some more with kees and we agreed that is better to keep it this way
[21:08] <sebner> norsetto: bah
[21:08] <norsetto> sebner: its just a license issue, there is no technical problem behind it, it doesn't require to split the package in two
[21:09] <sebner> norsetto: before taking flightgear I wanted to do that and then I'd have been for nothing :P
[21:09] <norsetto> sebner: I asked you to talk with him about this btw, long long ago ...
[21:10] <sebner> norsetto: to kees? O_o *never noticed that*
[21:11] <kees> er hm?
[21:11] <kees> oh, eggdrop.  what's been decided?
[21:12] <norsetto> sebner: ^^
[21:13] <sebner> xD
[21:13] <sebner> norsetto: besides that 2 issues is the debdiff ok or didn't you take a close look?
[21:13] <norsetto> sebner: go on, discuss the issue with him, he won't bite you (well, not too badly anyway)
[21:14] <emgent> kees: about eggdrop now ssl patch included in the same package
[21:15] <emgent> but i think that is good use "eggdrop-ssl" in the future
[21:15] <kees> it's a violation of the GPL to ship eggdrop as a binary linked to openssl
[21:15] <kees> the only way to avoid this is to either  a) get the eggdrop author to make an exception to his license for the non-GPL clauses of openssl, or  b) port the SSL patches for eggdrop into gnutls.
[21:17] <emgent> uhm
[21:25] <norsetto> nixternal: is it possible to add multiple email addresses to the -motu list? I need to send (I hope temporarely) my emails through a different provider, and they are stopped for moderation
[21:26] <emgent> kees: when you have time can you add Bug #172283 in your todolist ?
[21:31] <kees> emgent: sure
[21:32] <emgent> thanks
[21:38] <sebner> norsetto: I think they do the same but make clean throws an error
[21:38] <norsetto> sebner: what error? You know why?
[21:38] <sebner> norsetto: /usr/bin/make -i clean
[21:38] <sebner> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/sebner/merges/flightgear/flightgear-1.0.0'
[21:38] <sebner> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `clean'.  Stop.
[21:38] <sebner> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/sebner/merges/flightgear/flightgear-1.0.0'
[21:38] <sebner> make: [clean] Error 2 (ignored)
[21:38] <sebner> buh 4 lines
[21:38] <sebner> no pastebin
[21:39] <norsetto> sebner: ah, that means very simply that there is no clean rule, so forget about adding one
[21:39] <sebner> norsetto: ha!
[21:39] <sebner> norsetto: but distclean?
[21:40] <norsetto> sebner: I hope there is a distclean target ...
[21:40] <sebner> norsetto: yes, ^^
[21:40] <sebner> norsetto: so only the license pointer, any other issue?
[21:41] <norsetto> sebner: I just skimmed it, I don't remember anything else jumping to my eyes
[21:41] <sebner> norsetto: kay, then I upload a new debdiff
[21:43] <sebner> norsetto: again thanks. Working with you is always great because I learn many things from you =)
[21:44] <norsetto> sebner: wait until I present you the bill
[21:44] <sebner> norsetto: hrhr, you can when I write my motu application next month. (hmm or better later since I'm missed a lot of knowledge)
[21:51] <huats> norsetto: hey
[21:51] <huats> norsetto: just a quick and fast question
[21:51] <norsetto> huats: yes
[21:51] <norsetto> huats: that was the quick and fast answer :-)
[21:51] <huats> is it needed to be a MOTU to help you on the reception ?
[21:51] <huats> ;)
[21:52] <norsetto> huats: no, but you need at least to be a President
[21:52] <huats> if not, I'll be happy to help you
[21:52] <huats> ;)
[21:52] <norsetto> huats: ok, I'll add you to the team :-)
[21:52] <sebner> norsetto: ha! got that mail. come on be my valentine (or mentor) Xd
[21:53] <norsetto> huats: I will send you an email about a couple of things we need to do
[21:53] <huats> I am sure you'll find lots of people way more interesting than myself to help you... but if there is a place left here I am
[21:53] <huats> :)
[21:53] <huats> norsetto: sure
[21:53] <huats> go ahead
[21:53] <huats> I might just answer this WE
[21:53] <huats> but I will
[21:53] <huats> ;)
[21:54] <norsetto> huats: what is your launchpad id?
[21:55] <huats> christophe.sauthier
[21:57] <norsetto> huats: welcome to the team :-)
[21:57] <huats> norsetto: thanks !
[22:11] <Falken> hey norsetto, what is that reception you're talking about ?
[22:12] <norsetto> Falken: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
[22:13] <Falken> thanks :D
[23:11] <sebner> gn8 folks =)
[23:37] <RainCT> good night
[23:38] <wgrant> siretart: I wonder what my chances of getting  most of the vlc binaries moved to universe are, if I put the x264 plugin in its own package.
[23:39] <wgrant> (the vlc source would have to remain in multiverse so it could build the x264 binary, of course)
[23:39]  * norsetto really wishes we could do that for mplayer too
[23:40] <wgrant> norsetto: As do I, but it's not modular.
[23:41] <norsetto> wgrant: well, a man can always dream
[23:41] <wgrant> Although, hmmm.
[23:41] <wgrant> Maybe we could do the same, and keep the mencoder binary in multiverse.
[23:41] <wgrant> I'll have to check out what exactly Debian leaves out other than the encoding bits.
[23:41] <norsetto> wgrant: I thought we discussed that and concuded we couldn't
[23:42] <blairzajac> hello, i uploaded a package to revu libfile-fnmatch-perl a while back, how do i ask or talk to about getting this reviewed?
[23:43] <norsetto> blairzajac: offer bribes of an appropriate amount (us$ not accepted obviously)
[23:43] <blairzajac> norsetto: lol
[23:44] <norsetto> blairzajac: ops, freudian slip, I wrote us$ instead of US$ :-)
[23:44] <wgrant> norsetto: I wasn't privy to those discussions, apparently.
[23:44] <blairzajac> hmm, i'm on the subversion dev team, maybe i should ask our debian maintainer, who we just granted commit rights to
[23:45] <norsetto> wgrant: in the motu m.l., you are subscribed, aren't you?
[23:45] <wgrant> But I can't see that there'd be anything wrong in the vlc case - it's only in multiverse due to dynamically linked build-depends, and it is clear that nothing but the x264 plugin is linked against the lib in question.
[23:45] <wgrant> norsetto: Of course. I don't recall the dicussion, though. I'll search it up.
[23:45] <norsetto> blairzajac: if he has upload rights for ubuntu that would be a good solution for you
[23:46] <blairzajac> norsetto: it would be a favor to ask of him, since it's a totally unrelated package
[23:46] <wgrant> Ah, right, found it.
[23:46] <norsetto> blairzajac: who is he, if I may ask?
[23:47] <wgrant> norsetto: I can't see any replies.
[23:47] <blairzajac> norsetto: Peter Samuelson
[23:47] <norsetto> blairzajac: no, never heard of him (but I'm pretty new here anyway)
[23:48] <norsetto> wgrant: this was the first email: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-May/003966.html
[23:48] <ajmitch> norsetto: a DD
[23:49] <norsetto> ajmitch: a destroyer!
[23:49] <wgrant> norsetto: Ah, not the thread that I found.
[23:49] <norsetto> wgrant: and a followup in June: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-June/003969.html
[23:50] <blairzajac> norsetto: but in general. how does one get packages reviewed?  is there a place to ping?  just make noise?
[23:50] <norsetto> blairzajac: if you can get your package into Debian that would really be the best, we would get it from them anyway
[23:51] <norsetto> blairzajac: otherwise this is the right place for asking
[23:51] <blairzajac> norsetto: in my reading around, my sense was that it's easier to get into Ubuntu, but I guess that's not the case?
[23:51] <wgrant> siretart has some unfortunately good points :(
[23:52] <norsetto> blairzajac: it is actually true
[23:52] <norsetto> blairzajac: next time also hand out a link, it helps, I'm on my way to bed otherwise I would have looked at it myself
[23:53] <blairzajac> norsetto: ok, thanks for your help, appreciate it, here's the link for anybody else reading http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libfile-fnmatch-perl
[23:54] <nxvl> jcastro: around?