/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/06/26/#ubuntu-mozillateam.txt

asac_fta: we should try to link statically to the binaries00:00
asac_Volans: i always need testers ;)00:00
Volansif you need ask me, I have only some software limit00:00
asac_software limit?00:00
asac_what does that mean?00:01
Volansgutsy 64bit in my laptop, dapper on an old desktop and hardy on virtualbox00:01
Volans:D00:01
asac_what i seriously need is two nice secretaries in bikini that process my bug folders :)00:02
asac_Volans: thats great00:02
asac_Volans: dapper is really so important00:02
Volansask canonical to get them for you ;)00:02
asac_i should ;)00:02
VolansI see that the tests on QA go well apart a problem on hardy00:04
asac_Volans: you already tested the current firefox in dapper right?00:04
Volansyes00:04
Volansof course :)00:04
asac_Volans: ok, the hardy bug is just about plugins00:05
asac_which makes sense, because we ignored ffox 2 for a few00:05
asac_we should really move the plugin table somewhere else. apparently it consumes a lot of resources on testers side00:06
asac_and we have no clue if they work anyway :)00:06
asac_at least we should check what works and what not before asking for testing00:06
=== asac_ is now known as asac
Volansasac: I have rearranged the table only for a better aspect, I think that one test link for any plugin will be optimal00:10
asacVolans: i think plugins deserve their own page. which is then listed as a test on its own on the qa site00:11
asacwe could even split them up in "main-plugins" and "universe-plugins"00:11
Volansseems a good idea, maybe separate the tests on QA and leave them on the same page in wiki00:12
Volans(same plugins page)00:12
asacVolans: hmm.00:12
asaci dont like to put too much on a page00:12
VolansI mean a separate page for plugins, divided in two section00:12
asaci think people might be confused and feel its "too hard"00:13
asacah00:13
asacyeah00:13
Volansand 2 separate test in QA for main and universe plugins00:13
asacthat would work00:13
asacotoh, we haev quite a lot of plugins00:13
asacso maybe we can put them on their own page. e.g. one page per qa.ubuntu.com testcase00:13
Volansbut the real question is... if I test only totem and not flash... ?00:13
Volansone testcase for each plugins is confusing?00:14
asaci think its ok to ask them to test all on each individual case00:14
asacmain are not that many plugins00:14
ftaPatch bz233371_att297343_fix_outofscreen_embed_tooltip.patch does not apply (enforce with -f)00:14
ftamake: *** [debian/stamp-patched] Error 100:14
asaci think its our obligation to provide proper testcases though00:14
asacfta: 1.9.1?00:14
ftayes00:14
asacfta: dump it00:14
asacthats a questionable patch anyway which was introduced to fix ephy00:15
asacthat was before the huge embedding backout. so it might even not be required on 1.900:15
asacah, microb backout it was called00:16
* asac reactivated rotting brain cells :)00:16
asacif you are brave you can test if ephy shows its tooltips off-screen if you try to display a tooltip right to your screen border00:17
ftaseems i'm not brave00:17
asacfta: yeah. just dump it then00:18
asacVolans: not really sure if we want one test case per plugin on the qa website00:20
asacVolans: one wiki page per plugin would make sense obviously00:20
Volansme too... can be confusing00:20
asacit would not represent the importance. i think that people would balance their testing effords according to the amount of entries displayed there00:21
asacso if we list general unimportant things, we might get a wrong balance of testing efforts00:21
Volansyes of course... on QA is possible to set primary test and secondary test?00:22
asacVolans: i talked to stgraber about website improvements that would not give false impressions00:23
asace.g. like 3/3 suggests that all is done00:23
asacbut i want 100 test submissions and not just 3 ;)00:23
Volansyou cannot set the number?00:23
asacVolans: the number is the amount of testcases00:24
Volansone succesful test per case is enough... absurd00:24
asaconce 1 tester confirmed that it worked it will be counted as done00:24
asacyeah00:24
asacso we will introduce some kind of factor00:24
asaci can configure 100 and we can display a progress bar isntead of 3/3 :)00:25
asacits kind of a marketing number though ;)00:25
asactoo high might demotivate contributors00:25
Volansif you can't set primary and secondary tests.. one test per main and one per universe plugins can be already too much00:25
asactoo low might cause people to not test because they think its all done00:26
asacVolans: yeah00:26
asacVolans: i think this all needs to be included in the website redesign00:26
Volanssurely...00:26
asaci think we have to assume that we get more than just 2 testers00:26
Volansthe final number you want maybe can not be displaies, telling only, 5 test done00:27
asacthen we can use a factor and say like "normal usage" needs 30 users00:27
Volansif you open the tasks00:27
asacwhile plugin xy-unimportant needs 1 confirmation to get full green :)00:27
Volansyou can see the specific number tests done00:27
asacVolans: well. just telling 20 done doesnt provide any incentive00:28
asacand doesnt direct forces to the right task00:28
Volanstrue00:28
asacwe need to provide some kind of reasonable upper bound based on what the submissions we got in last testrun00:28
asacand increase that a bit each and every time00:28
Volanssounds resonable :)00:28
asacbut in that way the graphic displaying the absolute progress becomes less meaningful for developers. so we will also display a small pie that shows the relation of errors vs. success00:29
asacso developers can easily spot areas of problems00:29
asacat least thats the idea atm ;)00:30
Volansthe site is very simple at this stage, many iprovements can be done, only the right way have to be decided00:30
asacyeah00:30
asacwe are discussing improvements for quite some time00:30
asacsomething has to be done00:30
asacfor 6 month there has be no considerable improvement nwo00:31
asacthats my personal opinion only ;)00:31
asacanyway, its great to see so many dapper submissions ;)00:32
Volanssites imporvements can be of two types: visible from users (interface, new functionalities, ecc..) or invisible (server imporvement, software optimization, eccc)00:32
asacwell, that site needs a thorough redesign from grounds up ;)00:33
asacthere are so many confusing things00:33
asaceven for iso testing - which is what it was designed to do initially00:33
Volansbut this site is develoèped by canonical?00:33
asacnot really00:33
asacits a contribution, which we now embraced and host and i think sponsor00:34
asacstgraber developed it00:34
Volanswhich we = canonical?00:34
asacyeah00:34
Volansok :)00:34
asaci think its pretty important and in principal properly funded00:34
asacexcept that stgraber doesnt have enough time ;)00:35
Volansmaybe canonical can add some programmer to the project00:35
asacVolans: well. i think they are redoing this. but i am not well informed00:36
asacthe main point here is mostly that nobody reall yknows what this site should do00:37
asacand how to do it in a great way :)00:37
Volansahahah good promming behind!00:37
asacso in short: its not understood ;)00:37
Volansand not used so much00:38
Volansas i see00:38
asacno really. there are things like hardware testing and so on that are important to get done00:38
asacand all this is supossed to be submitted to that site00:38
asacso its not a simple task to make it rock00:39
asacVolans: agreed. it needs to be better promoted.00:39
Volansif I worked for that project I think I have made a polls on the developer groups (mozillateam, hardware, iso, ecc...) to understand the needs of every group00:40
asacotoh, you cannot roll this out on a large scale if its not well thought out00:40
asacVolans: sure. we had discussions at two UDS about it00:40
asaci think i know quite well what we need for mozillateam00:41
asaciso is pretty well thought out too.00:41
asacbut hardware is tricky and i sometimes get the feeling that we should keep this out of that application00:42
asacbut the, the concepts for mozilla and iso dont really scale00:42
asace.g. you cannot do that for lots of applications00:42
VolansI understand... maybe separate "section" with different functionalities00:43
asacyeah. most likely00:43
asacnight!01:06
Volansnight asac :)01:07
=== jetsaredim is now known as jetsaredim_zzz
gnomefreakwiki is very slow today08:42
* gnomefreak working on catagorizing wikis what should i put when im done onhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2008-06-2208:48
* gnomefreak working on catagorizing wikis what should i put when im done on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2008-06-2208:48
gnomefreakalso i dont think they set meetings for 6 months away but i will check sometime today i think08:49
gnomefreakdid we get our clue files in bughelper by chance?09:01
gnomefreakasac: are we updating dapper FF1.5 to 2.0? or are we just gonna support 1.5 in dapper for the next year or so (dont remember when dapper desktop reaches EOS09:14
gnomefreak)09:14
asacgnomefreak: yeah 6 month is just a point not a real number. the idea is to plan a bunch ahead :)09:23
asacno matter how much ;)09:23
gnomefreakasac: ok will try09:24
gnomefreakasac: how far did you get with "Establish Processes for triaging mozilla issues" from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Roadmap09:25
gnomefreakim saving changes atm so it might be slow09:25
asacgnomefreak: that site is so rotten old09:27
asacwe should dump it and redo it09:27
asaci mean even david is still on it09:27
asacso yes, that process was established :)09:27
asacbut we are now at process v2 ;)09:27
asacso i have the same task again ;)09:27
ftahi09:30
jdhoreasac, how do i find out if firefox is using libjemalloc.so or not?09:31
gnomefreakasac: yeah there were a few i would like to drop but i would like to get catagoys done first.09:33
gnomefreakasac: I ADDED HIS AS BLOCKED SINCE THEY WERE IN PROGRESS09:34
asacjdhore: strace -eopen -f firefox 2>&1 | grep jemalloc09:34
gnomefreakdamnit i hate caps09:34
asacjdhore: well ... or just ldd /usr/lib/firefox-3.0/firefox09:34
asacgnomefreak: sure.09:34
gnomefreakasac: should i drop the wiki page totally?09:34
asacgnomefreak: yeah09:34
asacwe can always create a roadmap page if we really want to09:35
asacbut that one has to die for sure ;)09:35
gnomefreakasac: ok can do that now.09:35
asacgnomefreak: or maybe add a huge warning on top "THIS PAGE WAS IDENTIFIED AS CURRENTLY BEING UNMAINTAINED"09:35
gnomefreakasac: too late09:35
asachi fta09:36
asack+09:36
gnomefreakor not09:36
ftalsof -p `pidof firefox` | grep jemalloc09:36
ftabetter09:36
gnomefreaki might edit the pages to remove knowledge base from menus09:37
asacnot sure lsof is always painful for me ;)09:38
jdhorefta, asac, thanks, both showed that ff3 was running/linking to libjemalloc, so i assume everything should work09:40
gnomefreakasac: what are we doing with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Accessibility none of us are working on it in general im thinking delete the page and if someone wants to work with u-a-t https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Accessibility09:43
gnomefreakoops i didnt mean to give links 2 time09:44
gnomefreakalso thinking of dropping the council members that are and have been inactive and maybe add Jazzva and fta and ther eis room for another person let me know what you think09:45
asacgnomefreak: imo, we dont need a council09:47
asacbut feel free to update as suggested :)09:48
gnomefreakasac: we can drop that page as well than :)09:48
asacfor me the "mozillateam" is the council ;)09:48
gnomefreakagreed09:48
asacgnomefreak: yeah drop that ;)09:48
gnomefreakgoing to when i find it again its somewherre in the 20+ tabs i have open09:49
gnomefreakasac: let me know what you think on  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Accessibility i think drop it09:49
asacgnomefreak: i dont see why we would have any special focus on mozilla accessibililty09:55
asacwhy not on the javascript engine? or the layout engine?09:55
asac;)09:55
asacgnomefreak: figure who the accessibility team consists off09:56
gnomefreakasac: dont know but that was more focused around orca or whatever it is called like more for poeple that have problems seeing09:56
asacand if they havea any need09:56
asaci can ask luke09:56
gnomefreakplease do but if i get done before you have reply ill find someone to ask09:56
asacgnomefreak: ill ask luke, he uses a screenreader, so probably can tell best the current state09:57
asacluke == TheMuso09:57
gnomefreakoh him :)09:57
gnomefreakthe extension pages are staying under cat. mozillateam?09:58
asacgnomefreak: yeah.09:59
gnomefreakgood09:59
asacfor me mozilla-extensions-dev is just a subteam09:59
asacwhile every mozillateam member is also a mozila-extensions-dev member09:59
ftai'm not10:00
asacand vv. is technically not true, but spiritual is valid too10:00
gnomefreakis this for real? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Firefox3Extensions/BogusList10:00
asacfta: isnt mozillateam a member of mozilla-extensions-dev?10:00
asacfta: https://edge.launchpad.net/~mozilla-extensions-dev/+members10:01
asacmozillateam is member10:01
asacso if you visit the https://edge.launchpad.net/~mozilla-extensions-dev/10:01
asacit should tell you that you are member of that team too10:01
asacfta: at least you have the extensions emblem on your homepage: https://edge.launchpad.net/~fta10:02
ftai see a "join the team" on the right10:02
asacyeah. probably a visualization bug10:02
gnomefreakfta: its because we used the mozilla team not member by member10:02
asacfta: do you want to be admin of that team?10:03
asaci can drop out of that position and hand it over to you ;)10:03
gnomefreakif you look at show teams you are of a part of it should show indirectly from mozillateam or something along those lines10:03
asacyeah. just to be admin you need to be direct member10:03
ftai have no immediate use for that, maybe later10:04
gnomefreakwhy do we have pages on eclipse and distcc niether of them have anything to do with mozilla afaik10:04
armin76asac: did you read what i said about the mine stuff?10:05
asacno?10:05
armin76fail10:07
armin76asac: http://rafb.net/p/eZxfY675.html10:07
gnomefreakhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Governance is deleted10:08
asacarmin76: ok, so it works with xulmine, but not with ffox?10:09
asac(oon ppc)10:09
ftagnomefreak, i just pushed a new pastebinit to my ppa fixing the annoying bug10:10
fta(not my fix)10:10
gnomefreakfta: thanks but ummmm what annpying bug?10:11
ftahttp://paste.ubuntu.com/22865/10:11
asacfta: does that go to paste.ubuntu.com?10:12
ftayes10:12
asacgood10:13
asacdidnt know about that even ;)10:13
gnomefreakstrange i got a crash but ff didnt close, this has happened since yesterdays push10:13
asactoo advanced for my rotten brain10:13
asac:-P10:13
asacbut useful, indeed10:14
* gnomefreak trying to get to a good stopping point before restarting FF but it still shouldnt crash right after update10:14
asacgnomefreak: what crashes?10:14
gnomefreakasac: after every update firefox tells me it closed unexpectedly but its still open10:15
gnomefreakthat has happened since yesterdays ff xul updates10:15
gnomefreakand only happens right after update if i dont restart within say 5 minutes10:16
asacgnomefreak: restart == firefox ?10:16
asacor system?10:16
gnomefreakff restart10:16
ftaasac, it supports a bunch of sites now: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23051/10:16
armin76asac: yeah, but its normal it segfaulted with the windows?10:17
gnomefreaki think i will file a bug and let apport get teh stack and back so you can see what is happening. Will do this in a bit right after im done with wikis.10:18
asacarmin76: yeah right10:19
* asac ponders inbox10:19
asacarmin76: debian bug 48241510:20
ubottuDebian bug 482415 in iceweasel "iceweasel: crashes immediately upon startup" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/48241510:20
asachttp://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=482415#13310:21
ubottuDebian bug 482415 in iceweasel "iceweasel: crashes immediately upon startup" [Important,Open]10:21
asac"I am also seeing this crash for all XUL apps on my machine, a PPC10:21
asac"10:21
asacarmin76: apparently mike doesnt see the ppc problem ... http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=482415#17810:23
asac"This one is not a crash on startup, but at shutdown, and is a known issue.10:23
asacIt will be fixed in next upload of xulrunner.10:23
asac"10:23
ubottuDebian bug 482415 in iceweasel "iceweasel: crashes immediately upon startup" [Important,Open]10:23
asac:-D10:23
asacpoor tim allen ;)10:24
asacarmin76: maybe support him :-D10:24
asachttp://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=482415#17310:24
ubottuDebian bug 482415 in iceweasel "iceweasel: crashes immediately upon startup" [Important,Open]10:24
gnomefreakok filing bug with apport10:25
gnomefreaki will give you link when done10:25
asacgnomefreak: about what?10:25
asacah the crash10:25
asacsure10:25
asacgnomefreak: maybe create the backtrace locally10:25
gnomefreakThe problem cannot be reported:10:25
gnomefreakThis is not a genuine Ubuntu package10:25
gnomefreakasac: is there a wiki on it? i cant remember from that long ago10:26
asacarmin76: where was the gentoo bug?10:26
gnomefreakwe should really ask martin to add PPA's with apport :(10:27
asaci would like to answer the mail and tell mike that its a crash on startup ;)10:27
armin76asac: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22895710:27
ubottubugs.gentoo.org bug 228957 in Applications "www-client/mozilla-firefox-3.0-r1 segmentation fault on ppc and ppc64/32ul (gcc-4.3.1/glibc-2.8)" [Normal,New]10:27
armin76okay, its just a glibc-2.8, nothing to do with gcc-4.310:29
asacarmin76: glibc 2.7 works?10:29
armin76yup10:29
armin76i've tried upgrading from 2.6.1 to 2.7, it didn't segfault on both10:29
armin76upgraded to 2.8, segfault10:29
armin76i'm talking about gentoo, uh? :P10:30
asacarmin76: yeah thats fine10:30
asacarmin76: may I cc you on the bugmail ?10:30
asacemail?10:30
armin76i sent a mail already10:31
armin76but yeah, feel free, armin76@gentoo.org10:31
asacarmin76: hope you have not been too nice ;)10:31
asacarmin76: hmm sid chroot has glibc 2.710:34
gnomefreakfta: asac are we not building Ffox-3.0-dbg? if not what would i install?10:37
ftatoo bad the spellchecker in ff is not able to remember the lang per site10:39
asacgnomefreak: xulrunner-1-9-dbgsym + firefox-3.0-dbgsym10:39
ftagnomefreak, we don't. we moved to dbgsym10:39
asacoh i think he uses ppa10:39
asacthats bad10:39
ftabut not supported by ppa10:39
gnomefreakah ok are the ddebs open for intrepid yet?10:39
ftayes10:39
asacwe have to figure something for ppa imo10:39
gnomefreakwell its PPA package that is crashing10:39
asacgnomefreak: yeah. for intrepid all should be there10:39
armin76asac: i'll try with debian10:40
asacarmin76: good thing is that if it doesnt start on ppc, its a grave bug and debian cannot release ;)10:40
asacso they have to fix it :-D10:40
gnomefreakcant we generate the -dbg packages just for PPA and change it if we are uploading to archives? or like fta can generate them than upload the package without the -dbg to MT PPA so we can use that one to push to archives? YES its alot more work or evenmaybe as simple as commenting -dbg in control before pushing to archive10:41
armin76well, debian has some ppc boxes, so :P10:41
asacarmin76: they have, but you cannot really use them10:42
asac1st: getting dependencies installed takes about 3 month :-D10:42
asacunless you have admin power on that porter machine which usually are just 3 people10:42
asacout of which 3 are unavailable ;)10:42
armin76no chroots?10:42
asacarmin76: chroots? yes! but with the ability to install software? not that i know of10:43
asacok let me go on agricola.debian.org  :)10:44
asachttp://db.debian.org/machines.cgi10:44
asacok i dont have access to debian machines anymore10:45
asacgrewat10:45
armin76haha10:45
armin76well, chroots are for those, you know? :P10:45
asaci am pretty sure that i updated my ssh keys10:46
asacmost likely they removed all keys _after_ i did that10:46
asacas slow as usual10:46
armin76i wonder why ubuntu doesn't have any dev box10:47
gnomefreaki robot seal its so cute10:48
gnomefreakgood girt for my sister atleast10:48
asachow can i tell gpg  to use a specific key to sign?10:50
asacthe gpg manpage is just incomprehensible10:51
asaci mean it should be a simple option: "--key-id XXXX"10:51
asacinstead for some commands it  uses the last argument to guess the id ... for others i dont see any10:51
armin76asac: it doesn't segfault on debian10:55
asacarmin76: good10:55
asacso 2.710:55
armin76yep10:56
gnomefreakfta: how hard is it to add a pastebin to pastebinit?10:57
armin76Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux ppc; en-US; rv:1.9) Gecko/2008062113 Iceweasel/3.0 (Debian-3.0~rc2-2)10:57
gnomefreakasac: i think i got all mozillateam wiki cats. done finally :)10:57
asacgreat!10:58
gnomefreakif anyone finds some that doesnt have right catagories or missing them for our wikis please let me know10:58
ftagnomefreak, depends, i've already added some. which one(s) do you need ?10:59
gnomefreaknow i guess i work on nss/nsspr gutsy chroot10:59
gnomefreakfta: http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/11:00
gnomefreakthat is personal one for when i help out in #ubuntu and such channels11:00
gnomefreakbtw what is medal of honor related to e-m-d team?11:02
ftagnomefreak, pastebin.ca support has been removed11:02
ftano idea why11:02
gnomefreakfta: ah ok yeah they did that with the old pastebin app cant think of the name off hand11:03
armin76wgetpaste!11:04
asacso what is more expensive? USB 3g adapter or PCMCIA?11:05
armin76gnomefreak: wgetpaste!11:05
asaci can get both for the same price ;) so i wonder whats smarter ;)11:05
armin76usb means you can connect it to a normal pc :P11:06
asacyeah ;)11:06
asacarmin76: but does it mean that i cannot use it with linux :)?11:06
asac;)11:06
asaci think ill go for pcmcia to start and then get other hardware from somewhere else11:07
armin76uh...iirc the huawei works under linux11:07
asacarmin76: i have no clue what is what ... seriously11:07
ftaPCMCIA is obsolete11:07
asacfta: what is replacement?11:08
ftaExpressCard11:08
asacyeah11:08
asacthats what this is11:08
asac(but ther eis a pcmcia adapter )11:08
asachttp://www.moobicent.de/fileadmin/media/bilder/moobishop/pc-express_card.jpg11:09
asachttp://www.moobicent.de/fileadmin/media/bilder/moobishop/usb-stick_01.jpg11:09
armin76http://home.coming.dk/index.php/2008/05/25/p80511:09
asacthose are the two i can choose to start with ;)11:09
ftai can't plug my pcmcia cards into my ExpressCard slot11:09
gnomefreakarmin76: the one i used wasnt wgetpaste11:09
gnomefreakbut maybe ill lookinto that11:09
asacfta: yeah. but the one is express and you can make a pcmcia out of it ... so should work everywhere i guess11:10
armin76gnomefreak: but wgetpaste is cooler!11:10
armin76lolz11:10
armin76it needs python :D11:10
asacfta: so express or USB?11:10
gnomefreakah it was webboard11:10
armin76gnomefreak: wgetpaste ftw!11:11
gnomefreakarmin76: i will look into it and build it if i have to11:11
armin76its just a bash script :P11:11
armin76just needs bash + wget11:11
gnomefreakah even better :)11:11
armin76i told asac to build a deb of it, but he failed :P11:12
* gnomefreak has 3 bash scripts to write for one dam package11:12
asacarmin76: me?11:12
gnomefreakhe failed?11:12
asacarmin76: we have plenty of people that look for easy packaging tasks to start with11:12
gnomefreakor it failed?11:12
asacarmin76: if you want something packaged, let me know :-D11:12
armin76gnomefreak: he failed :P11:13
ftaasac, I would take express as i'm equiped with that, and it's much smarter, but depends if you have usb only needs11:13
ftahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExpressCard11:13
gnomefreakasac: when im done with the scripts feel free to help me turn it into a Ubuntu package but i was supposed to start this in april/early may11:14
armin76gnomefreak: http://wgetpaste.zlin.dk/wgetpaste-2.11.bz211:14
gnomefreakis there a way to start tbird-3 in offline mode?11:14
gnomefreakarmin76: thanks11:14
ftabash scripts, baaad. i hate bashisms11:15
gnomefreakfta: well for a text based address book it seems simplar afaict11:17
ftai'm old school, i write /bin/sh scripts11:17
gnomefreakand there is an out line in my bash book so i was gonna change  afew things and poof11:17
gnomefreaksh = dash afaik11:17
armin76fta: i think its not bash, just shell, because its keyworded x86-fbsd11:17
gnomefreakatleast in Ubuntu11:17
armin76ah no, its not11:18
gnomefreakwell abook looks farely nice11:18
ftaarmin76, eh? i'm referring to "* gnomefreak has 3 bash scripts to write for one dam package"11:20
gnomefreakfta: it shows me how to combine 2 of them but still have 2 to write in that case. one is addperson one is delperson and there is search script11:21
* gnomefreak not very fluent in bash but when i have one already done i can change things and figure other things out but for me on my own i have wrote a total of 6 but they are all easy ones like just a list of commands to run without use of if and such11:23
asacok, now i feel modern. i ordered UMTS flatrate :-D11:23
gnomefreakif Jazzva can get me the outline of the blog i can have everything done within a day or 2 of getting it11:23
gnomefreakoh what is UWN?11:24
asacgnomefreak: like DWN just with a U :-D11:24
ftalol11:24
gnomefreaklol11:24
gnomefreakah newsletter11:25
gnomefreakor navada gold11:25
gnomefreaknevada11:25
asacgnomefreak: hehe11:26
asacgnomefreak: its debian weekly news11:26
asacand ubuntu weekly news11:26
gnomefreakyeah google told me11:26
gnomefreak:)11:26
gnomefreakthe blog post you want them to republish is already made or is it the one im writing?11:26
asacgnomefreak: its the one you are writing most likely11:27
gnomefreakif good we can have most of it done by monday11:28
armin76fta: ah :D11:28
armin76asac: UMTS? thats slow11:28
gnomefreakkeep me informed on where everyone is on the tasks that we are working on so i know when to make next meeting11:28
gnomefreakok im done googling these arcronims11:29
gnomefreakok after breakfast i will start my 2nd task for today than i have gutsy chroot to fix and nss nspr hopully done by end of work day but we shall see11:31
gnomefreakbe back after breakfast11:32
asacarmin76: its called mobileDSL :)11:32
asacthought it was umts ;)11:32
asacup to 7.2mbit down ;)11:32
asacnot sure how much ill get in real life :-D11:32
asacHSDPA-Net11:33
armin76asac: package wgetpaste :P12:05
asacarmin76: why me?12:05
asacarmin76: i think its time that you learn packaging ;)12:05
armin76lol12:06
armin76you told me that if i wanted something packaged, i should told you, so i'm doing so :P12:06
armin76quick!12:06
asacarmin76: i told you ?12:06
asacwhen i was young?12:06
asacwe can look for someone to package it12:07
asacbut we should do it in debian12:07
armin76lol12:08
armin76yeah, look for someone, quick!12:08
armin76it depends on sed as well12:08
asacarmin76: but you dont use ubuntu. so why do you want it packaged?12:09
asactse this website complains about me not having the latest flash ... i have flash 10 ;)12:14
armin76asac: because its good :P12:15
ftaasac, a lot of sites have a flash detector in js thinking that flash 9 is the greatest.. they detect flash 10 as lower than flash 1 :)12:19
ftaarmin76, according to google, it's packaged only by gentoo12:20
armin76fta: and archlinux12:21
gnomefreakarmin76: you use gentoo right?12:25
gnomefreakasac: you told him to ask you yesterday you said something like if you want something packaged ask me but im thinking you were thinking he was on Ubuntu12:27
gnomefreakor it was this morning12:27
kgoetzhi all. i rebuilt the Firefox-2 and Firefox (3) packages from ubuntu with the OFFICAL_* lines set to 0 in the debian/rules directory. it seems they built the standard firefox packages with that change though. is there a guide to how i can change ubuntus firefox, or some pointers available?12:32
kgoetzIncase people are wondering, i'm trying to get FF rebuilt for gNewSense, and i've just started looking at it12:32
asackgoetz: what are you trying to do? build unbranded browser?12:32
kgoetzasac: technically a rebranded browser, but i thought starting with unbranded might be easier12:33
gnomefreakgnewsense is like gobuntu isnt it?12:33
gnomefreaklike free packages only12:33
kgoetzyes12:33
asackgoetz: does gnewsense have problems with the icons being in source package? or just the binaries?12:33
kgoetzasac: in the source packages is a problem.12:34
asackgoetz: ok. so lets think how we can do it right12:34
asackgoetz: sorry for my ignorance about gnewsense, but where is it hosted?12:35
asachow do you sync?12:35
kgoetzasac: on FSF hardware (i think in Ireland)12:35
kgoetz*sp12:35
asacha :)12:35
asacok so you are independent archive wise from our infrastrcuture12:35
kgoetzah sorry, yes we are (i didnt realise that was the question)12:35
asackgoetz: so can you blacklist firefox-3.0 sync and do it manually?12:35
kgoetzasac: yes.12:36
asackgoetz: ok. we have a bzr branch and mozilla-devscripts12:37
asacwe could add targets to build free (maybe even rebranded) tarballs to mozilla-devscripts12:37
asacand work something out for the packaging12:37
asacso basically you would just need to run two commands to produce your packages12:38
ftais the name a problem ? (like for debian)12:38
kgoetzasac: could you poitn me to the bzr repo? i'd be keen to have a look at the devscripst12:38
asacfta: yes its name + icons12:38
kgoetzfta: the artwork is, and the way it offers to install proprietary plugins12:38
asacfta: so basically mozilla-devscripts should be able to produce dfsg packages (vs. nobinonly)12:38
kgoetzwe find the plugins more of an issue then the artwork, tbh12:38
asacand maybe have an option to inject branding during tarball construcitno12:38
asackgoetz: mozilla-devscripts is a package we have in hardy and intrepid12:39
asacwe also have a branch12:39
asacwait a sec12:39
asackgoetz: http://code.launchpad.net/~mozillateam12:39
kgoetzasac: i'd prefer the branch (i'm actually running debian, so bzr'ing stuff is easier then getting the packages)12:39
asacthats our branches ;)12:39
kgoetzcheers :)12:39
asachttps://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/mozilla-devscripts/mozilla-devscripts12:40
ftaif you can draft what you need, i'd be happy to improve mozilla-devscripts12:40
asackgoetz: what do you want to track? our current latest stable release?12:40
gnomefreakgod i hate writers block12:40
asacfta: its basically getting the remove-nonfree script from debian packages i guess. and the ability to provide a tarred branding folder12:41
kgoetzasac: for the moment LTS releases12:41
asaci have such a folder for icedove12:41
asacwait a second12:41
asacfta: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/thunderbird/icedove-branding-2.0.0.x12:41
asackgoetz: ok, then you probably want to base your packaging branch on our .hardy branch12:42
asachttps://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-3.0.hardy12:42
kgoetzasac: thanks12:43
asackgoetz: so bascially starting with a rebranded tarball is a good start.12:44
kgoetzeek. cake. oven. bbs12:44
gnomefreakasac: you are beta tester for LP right?12:45
asacgnomefreak: i think i couldnt escape, yes.12:45
ftayou can, starting from the home page12:45
gnomefreakasac: they got rid of alot of the crap on the left side :(12:45
gnomefreakasac: you can disable it at launchpad.net12:46
gnomefreakfor 2 hours IIRC12:46
asacfta: for 2 hours ;)12:46
gnomefreakyep than disabel it for another 2 hours or you can leave the team and not test it :(12:47
asaci could leave the team, but i think there are other non-technical forces that want me to stay :)12:47
asacbut well. it was only really disfunctional when they switched to the new page layout12:47
asacafter that i hardly noticed that i am running beta12:47
gnomefreakhttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/243204  looks weird if you look above the Ubuntu task status ect...12:47
ubottuLaunchpad bug 243204 in ubuntu "[packaging] Please include LottaNZB in Intrepid Ibex" [Wishlist,New]12:47
asacgnomefreak: in which way wierd?12:48
gnomefreakasac: look on the left ther eis only subscribvers and search everything else is in main part of page12:49
gnomefreakmark as dup set privicy convert to question also affects ect... are all surrounding the affects statsu importance assigned to12:49
kgoetzasac: i'll try to read through the mozillateam/firefox/firefox-3.0.hardy bzr stuff  (and the mozilla-devscripts, if its a different codebase?) and then hae a go at new tarballs12:50
asacfta: are there instructions on wiki how to do tarball?12:50
asackgoetz: have you used bzr before?12:50
asacbasically you need a tarballs directory next to your source tree ... and then can build with bzr-builddeb ..... bzr bd --merge --dont-purge --builder='dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S' (as an example)12:51
gnomefreakbzr pull is really all there is needed since mozilla-devscripts builds tar for you12:51
ftaasac, what do you mean ?12:52
kgoetzasac: i have a basic understanding of bzr12:52
asackgoetz: k12:52
asacfta: i think we have a wiki page that outlines how to build our trees ;)12:52
asaclet me look12:52
kgoetzhm... bzr-debbuild. wonder if thats in backports.org12:52
gnomefreakis it ment or meant?12:53
asackgoetz: that should be in debian12:53
ftalunch break. back in a few12:53
gnomefreakfta: have fun;)12:53
asackgoetz: bzr-builddeb12:53
asacsorry for the shuffeling12:53
kgoetzasac: its not in stable - i'll probably have to backport it from sid/testing12:54
asackgoetz: you want to build ffox 3 on stable?12:54
asacdid xulrunner-1.9 built fine?12:54
kgoetzasac: no, i want bzr-builddeb on stable. \12:55
asacjames_w: ^^12:56
asacjames_w: i see that you have etch-backports branches in you builddeb bzr12:56
asacjames_w: whats the easiest way for kgoetz to get bzr + builddeb on debian etch?12:56
=== rzr is now known as ZrZ
asaci have the feeling that you already have those packages somewhere :)12:57
james_wI've never backported it, but someone else may have.12:58
james_wkgoetz: are you running the bzr from backports or etch?12:59
kgoetzjames_w: my bzr is from backports13:00
james_wyou could install builddeb for your user with "mkdir -p ~/.bazaar/plugins/ && bzr branch lp:bzr-builddeb ~/.bazaar/plugins/builddeb/"13:00
kgoetzhm ok13:02
gnomefreakall that? :( i just installed bzr-builddeb13:03
* gnomefreak figured it would be same for debian 13:04
asacgnomefreak: not if you want it in etch ;)13:05
kgoetzcan i make sure of my understanding here? firefox-3.0.hardy is the full source for FF+ubuntu changes and mozilla-descripts is the tools used to customise the FF3 repo? does that same firefox source repo generate the ubuntu FF customisation package(s?) or is that a seperate package again?13:11
asackgoetz: no ff.hardy is just the packaging13:13
asacyou need the orig.tar.gz .. which you can produce using debian/rules13:13
asacin combination with mozilla-devscripts installed13:14
kgoetzaaah. i see.13:14
kgoetzme starts reading moz-devscripts13:15
asackgoetz: there is a readme i think13:15
kgoetzasac: thats where i've got to so far :)13:16
asackgoetz: unfortunately we havent yet found a good enough syntax for changelog to cover all cases automagically. so you need to provide DEBIAN_TAG=... to get a specific release13:16
gnomefreakasac: should we set a experation time period for the m-c-t for new subscriptions this way if they just joined jus to have it on thier LP page but are not interested in helping out13:18
gnomefreaki guess debian doesnt have bzr packages?13:18
asacgnomefreak: they have some :)13:19
gnomefreakim thinking something like 30 days13:19
asacfor instance icedove ;)13:19
gnomefreakicedove is on bzr?13:19
asacgnomefreak: what is  m-c-t13:19
asacgnomefreak: http://packages.qa.debian.org/icedove13:19
gnomefreakmozilla-community team13:19
gnomefreaki am starting the team atm but things will change when i get rid of writers block :(13:20
asacgnomefreak: do we want to use that as teamname?13:21
asaci am not sure what name to use ;)13:21
gnomefreakasac: i dont see why not13:21
gnomefreakit works for me13:21
kgoetzIs there an example .mk i can look at? - in debian/rules: add "include /usr/share/mozilla-devscripts/yourproject.mk" sounds like an obscenely easy way of reworkin FF - is lp-locale-export.mk an worth viewing example?13:22
asackgoetz: no that one is for translation exports from launchpad13:23
gnomefreaksince it is an open team the community can join and work towards membership to other team so IMHO it works under that explaintion. If you have better team name please let me know. THAT GOES FOR EVERYONE ;)13:23
asackgoetz: the mozclient part (e.g. what gets the tarballs) is in13:23
asacsrc/mozclient/firefox-3.0.conf13:23
* gnomefreak goes for smoke 13:23
asaclook at the files in that directory13:23
kgoetzasac: thanks. i'll do that now.13:23
asackgoetz: it might be that we need to add a feature or something for your purpose. fta would know for sure13:24
kgoetzasac: i'm willing to try and help out in that endevour, but i've never used a makefile before so i'm on a bit of a learning curve.13:25
asackgoetz: sure. actually its perl :)13:26
asacthe .mk files just hook it in13:26
asacfor instance you can use MOZCLIENT_POSTCOCMD13:26
asacto do things _after_ checkout13:26
kgoetzasac: the learning curve just got a tiny bit flatter ;)13:26
asacyou could copy the branding from somewhere13:26
asacor checkout a bzr branch (like the icedove-brandingf branch)13:26
asackgoetz: haha13:26
asackgoetz: look at the .conf files that exists13:26
asacevery variable is a hook13:27
asacif you need more hooks we can probably add them ;)13:27
asacyou can probably code your POSTCOCMD in everything you want ;)13:27
kgoetzi may not be back for a week or so (i should be studying, not hacking), but this is all certainly making life look a lot easier for us.13:28
asackgoetz: yeah. if there are things we can improve we certainly want to help13:29
kgoetzasac: thanks for your offer (and assistance)13:29
* gnomefreak thinking Ubuntu-Mozilla-Community13:29
asacgnomefreak: i dont like "Community"13:29
asacits ment to be a team used for potential developers that apply to mozillateam and havent done any or enough contributions yet13:30
gnomefreakasac: what would make more sense? oh and btw Community was your first idea ;)13:30
asacmaybe "mozillateam-friends"13:30
gnomefreakmy clock is 30 minutes fast :(13:30
asaci just used some name during meeting ;)13:30
asaci think i actually called them "cheerers" ;)13:31
asacbut in the end i dont care so much about the name ;)13:31
gnomefreakyeah i know but it sounded good to me. i would personally leave team out of it since it is known to be a team13:31
gnomefreakUbuntu-Mozilla-chearleaders? ;)13:31
asacgnomefreak: formally all our team names should start with ubuntu- i guess ... to avoid confusion about affiliation13:31
asacgnomefreak: hehe13:32
asacyeah. that team would be fun13:32
asacwe need cheerleaders in a meeting13:32
gnomefreaktrue13:32
asacthat make jokes and acrobatic things to entertain the crowed before the stars get on the scene :-D13:32
gnomefreakUbuntu-mozilla-Beginners13:33
gnomefreak;)13:33
asacna ... that might also offend some13:33
gnomefreakyeah i know im just thinking alloud13:33
gnomefreakaloud13:33
gnomefreaki can deal with friends13:34
asacyeah. lets think abit more and ask others ;)13:34
gnomefreakmaybe ill post it to the mailinglist? or just wait for fta and Jazzva and others13:35
asacall fine with me13:35
gnomefreakill wait for them to be around if i dont see them ill post to list tommow13:35
gnomefreaktomorrow13:36
=== jetsaredim_zzz is now known as jetsaredim
gnomefreakdamnit i should have learned to build python apps :(13:37
gnomefreakthat way i can fix kde4-desktop so i can install it13:39
gnomefreakwhat does HTML or XML use for comments? like sh uses #13:43
kgoetz<! -- -->13:43
kgoetzthey dont have single line comments per se13:44
gnomefreakthanks13:44
kgoetznp13:44
gnomefreakwe really need a save option for tomboy i keep getting scared its going to dissapear13:45
kgoetzthink i missed somthin o_013:46
kgoetztomboy?13:46
kgoetzthe java-in-apache thing?13:46
kgoetzWill the mozilla-devscripts work with firefox-2? i only see 3.x and 4.0 meantiond in the README file13:50
asackgoetz: we havent added firefox-2 there13:52
asackgoetz: why?13:52
asacnow that firefox 3 is final i dont see a reason to keep it :)13:53
kgoetzasac: i was wondering if it would be the same process to change it13:53
asacif i could i'd remove it from archive ;)13:53
asackgoetz: yes it would be mostly identical13:53
asacbut we are working for the future ;)13:53
kgoetzasac: you'd remove it? hm. Wonder if i'd get mauled for suggesting we remove it from gNS.13:54
asackgoetz: if you base your distro on hardy, you should consider to drop it from anything new13:55
asackgoetz: its in universe13:55
asackgoetz: you can keep it if you want to rebrand it though ;)13:55
asacWe will upgrade users to ffox 3 once ffox 2 gets out of date13:55
ftaback13:55
asacerr EOL13:56
kgoetzasac: we carry both main/universe as equally supported. depending on how painful rebranding FF3 turns out to be i may do 2 for the heck of it13:56
asackgoetz: how long is your support cycle?13:56
asackgoetz: just remember that we will move ffox 2 users to ffox 3 once its EOL. not sure if thats within your policy :)13:57
asackgoetz: do you have your own branding?13:58
kgoetzasac: until we do the new release, then we drop the old one (so the last was 6.06 (our 1.x) to hardy 8.04 (our 2.x). dont know when the next LTS from ubuntu is, but we may change then13:58
asackgoetz: ok13:58
kgoetzasac: yes we do. but not in "proper" mozilla branding format, just a bunch of .png's and stuff we managed to mangle over FF in dapper13:58
asacif you havent releasd the 8.04 thing yet, just dont ship ffox 213:58
kgoetz(along with our abuse of sed on the package for name changes)13:59
asackgoetz: yeah. but its just a one time work13:59
asackgoetz: like what i did to icedove-branding13:59
gnomefreakok this damn browser is starting to piss me off first crashing now freezing the whole system up13:59
kgoetzasac: i'll probably do us support for FF3 and have FF2 blocked then. sounds like the easiest thing util someone complains bitterly. :)13:59
gnomefreakwe really need -dbg or -dbgsys for PPA packages14:00
* gnomefreak bitterly complaining14:00
gnomefreak;)14:00
asackgoetz: if someone does complain he should offer his work to maintain that imo14:00
kgoetzgnomefreak: :P14:01
kgoetzasac: fair call.14:01
asackgoetz: in ffox 3 there should not be much sedding required if you want to change the install path to not read "firefox-3.0"14:01
kgoetzasac: i dont think we are overly worried about install path (but i will have to check that out)14:02
asackgoetz: sudo mv /usr/lib/firefox-3.0/ /usr/lib/icyman-3.014:03
asacsudo mv /usr/lib/icyman-3.0/firefox /usr/lib/icyman-3.0/icyman14:03
asac/usr/lib/icyman-3.0/icyman14:03
asacworks!!14:03
kgoetzthats almost anoyingly easy ;)14:04
asacyeah ;)14:04
kgoetz*grin*: Include this helper if you want to translate your mozilla application or extension14:07
kgoetzthrough launchpad.14:07
kgoetzXXX: document here!14:07
asackgoetz: do you want to use it?14:08
kgoetzasac: the LP stuff? no, it will likely be disabled.14:08
asackgoetz: how do you get translations?14:09
asackgoetz: do you use our?14:09
asacyou have to update them too i guess14:09
kgoetzi was amused because the last line in the readme is effetively a fixme14:09
kgoetzasac: we use ubuntus where we can, were we cant we dont get translations14:09
asacyeah ;) ... is it really amusing that there is still work left to do in this world ?14:09
asachehe14:10
asackgoetz: ok. lets get the packaging done. once you have that we can look at langpacks options14:10
asackgoetz: just ping me when you run into issues :)14:10
kgoetzasac: thanks :)14:10
asackgoetz: i think before you start you require a branding folder14:10
asacyou can then play and update the orig.tar.gz manually to start14:11
asacand help us getting -devscripts right14:11
asackgoetz: s/ping me/ping us/ :)14:11
kgoetzasac: would getting the branding dir out of the orig and replacing all the needed strings/images be ok? i started one of those. http://gnewsense.maincontent.net/burningdog2work/branding-firefox-clean.tar.bz2 (i think this is the corrct url)14:12
asackgoetz: yes14:12
asacthats basically the procedure14:12
kgoetzcool.14:12
asacit should work (TM)14:12
gnomefreakasac: did you ping themuso yet?14:12
asacgnomefreak: nope. i think its late for him (australia)14:13
* gnomefreak forgot what to ask him i know about accessibility14:13
gnomefreakasac: yep it is late there14:13
kgoetzasac: hes east coast iirc, so its 23:15~14:13
asacreally? east coast has just 8h offset from berlin? though it was more ;)14:14
kgoetzits GMT+10 +/- for daylight savings14:15
asacok14:15
asacthats 8 then14:15
gnomefreakits 9:14 on east coast (usa atleast) au is like 13 hours ahead of us give or take14:15
gnomefreakbootleg movies are not legal right?14:16
asacIANAL14:16
asacand certainly i dont know anything about the US ;)14:16
asacexcept that everything is illegal there :-D14:16
asacexcept shooting around ;)14:16
kgoetzhehe14:17
gnomefreaktrue but i really want this movie now14:17
asacthen dont talk about it on a public channel ;)14:17
kgoetzat least we arnt transitioning to daylight savings atm. we have 5 zones at a couple of poitns iirc14:17
asackgoetz: daylight saving should be the other way around in au right?14:18
asacso we get two hours closer when we move 1h ahead ;)14:18
asacand the gap widens by 2h when we move back ;)14:18
kgoetzonly for some states. QLD/NT dont change time at all (iirc).  the rest do14:19
kgoetzanyway. off to bed. i've got to get to work tomorrow and be awake(ish)14:19
asacdaylight saving is completely outdated imo14:19
asacbye14:19
kgoetznight all :)14:19
* asac goes for lunch14:20
asac;)14:20
kgoetz:)14:20
Jazzvagnomefreak, I'm here now14:26
gnomefreakJazzva: can you give me some ideas on the name for the new team?14:27
Jazzvagnomefreak, I like -community, -friends and maybe -supporters14:27
gnomefreakJazzva: im asking everyone me and asac have tried a few14:27
gnomefreakasac: supporters?14:27
gnomefreakthat sounds good14:27
gnomefreakoh shit hes at lunch14:28
gnomefreakJazzva: thanks14:28
Jazzvaand as for ubuntu-mozilla- vs. mozillateam- vs. ...-, you guys know the policy better than I do :)14:28
Jazzvagnomefreak, np :)14:28
gnomefreaki thiink i like that one maybe i will use team but i need to look at the exact name of the team we have first14:28
gnomefreakanyone have a clue if you can start tbird in offline mode from terminal?14:30
Jazzvagnomefreak, -offline14:31
gnomefreakdoes it work?14:31
JazzvaWell, dunno... Found that on MDC14:31
gnomefreakah ok ill try it14:31
Jazzvahttp://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Command_Line_Options#-offline14:31
gnomefreakoh yeah it dumps core :(14:32
gnomefreakJazzva: it crashes if you do that with tbird-314:32
JazzvaNot using tb3 :)14:33
gnomefreakeh i can check mail in tbird 2 than open tbird 3 and work with it with no mail14:33
ftai plan to drop tb3 and maybe sm2. i'm not using them and i can hardly maintain things without using them.. not to mention that i lack time.14:37
ftai have no idea how many users i have, ppa provides no stats14:38
gnomefreaki guess that means i will be taking it14:39
ftaaccording to popcon, i have 43 users of tb3 and 16 of sm2. no idea how far from reality it is, ie how popular popcon is14:43
gnomefreaki dont think i use it but it is installed by default now14:45
ftai don't use it for sure14:45
gnomefreakis it named something else14:45
gnomefreakpolicy didnt find it in repos14:45
carlinuxleanerHey I just had a question about this e-mail titled "Firefox 2.0.0.15 Candidate Builds and Backports"14:46
gnomefreakpopularity-contest14:46
ftagnomefreak, i explicitly disable that14:46
gnomefreakcarlinuxleaner: what about it and what email (sorry havent gotten to email yet14:46
gnomefreakfta: ah14:46
gnomefreaki used it once during feisty devel cycle but not since14:46
carlinuxleanerit's a e-mail I got from "qatracker@stgraber.org"14:47
carlinuxleanerheres what it says14:47
gnomefreakcarlinuxleaner: ok what about it14:47
gnomefreakcarlinuxleaner: i know the email14:47
carlinuxleaneroh14:47
carlinuxleanerok14:47
gnomefreakwe are looking for testers that is what the qa tracker is for14:47
carlinuxleanerhow do I go about testing the canidate builds?14:47
gnomefreakiirc dapper and feisty testers14:48
gnomefreakcarlinuxleaner: there should be a link to get it from in email or on the site14:48
ftalol, i have more users for ff4 then for ff3.1, itself more than tb314:48
gnomefreakfta: do you have that email handy by chance? i need to finish what im doing before i can check email14:48
* gnomefreak has ff4 or atleast did 14:48
gnomefreaki still have it14:49
gnomefreakfta: it uses spareate profile right?14:49
ftayes14:50
gnomefreakand my typing sucks ive been up since 2am and didnt get to sleep til after 12 am14:50
ftabut don't bother following ff4, it's dead for now, it was an exact copy of ff3, before they decided that mozilla-central will be 3.1 instead of 4.014:51
carlinuxleanerthanks14:52
Jazzvacarlinuxleaner, go to http://mozlla.qa.ubuntu.com14:53
Jazzvasorry14:53
Jazzvacarlinuxleaner, http://mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com14:53
carlinuxleaneryeah I'm there already14:54
gnomefreakoh damn that would be why no updates14:55
gnomefreaki remember the talk on that but i thought 3.1 was gonna be next point release14:55
carlinuxleaneronly one thing I'm not so sure of, what does this command do? "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"14:55
gnomefreakcarlinuxleaner: it makes sure you are up to date14:56
gnomefreakcalas long as you dont change your sources.list file you will stay on same ubuntu version14:56
carlinuxleanerwhat?14:56
gnomefreakcarlinuxleaner: it makes sure you are up to date just dont edit your sources.list file14:57
carlinuxleanerisn't that like the upgrade "dist" distribution command?14:57
gnomefreakcarlinuxleaner: dist-upgrade will upgrade thiigs that upgrade wont14:57
gnomefreakcarlinuxleaner: only if you change the ubuntu version in your sources.list file14:57
gnomefreakthat is only time it will bring you to new ubuntu version14:58
carlinuxleanerahh, ok14:58
* gnomefreak thinking i should ask mvo to add a warning or a comment to dist-upgrade before it runs14:58
gnomefreakfta: let me know when you plan on dropping tbird 3 i will be glad to take it over if you dont want it, not sure i want seamonkey at this time14:59
carlinuxleanerpooh, I have to update my kernel15:00
gnomefreakcarlinuxleaner: thats what dist-upgrade does15:00
gnomefreakit upgrades kernels hal and other things that upgrade wont15:00
carlinuxleaneryeah, I always dread that because of my graphics card, better go backup my xorg.conf15:00
gnomefreakcarlinuxleaner: in hardy you should be fine15:01
gnomefreakbut backup is always best15:01
carlinuxleanerI'm in gusty15:01
gnomefreakfta: asac how do you feel about Ubuntu-Mozilla-Supporters or Ubuntu-Mozillateam-Supporters?15:02
gnomefreaki like it i just have to figure out if team should be in there15:02
gnomefreaki like supporters better than helpers TBH15:03
gnomefreaklol major breakage and they are worried about updating langpacks15:07
ftathe 2nd, Ubuntu-Mozillateam-Supporters. it seems wider15:07
ftahttp://www.grep.be/blog/en/computer/cluebat/firefox_sucks_really15:08
gnomefreakasac: ping me when you get back from lunch please15:12
asacgnomefreak: ping15:35
gnomefreakasac: ubuntu-Mozillateam-Supporters?15:35
asacgnomefreak: yeah, but everything lower case would be better i think15:36
gnomefreakJazzva: and fta like it15:36
asacgnomefreak: another idea is ubuntu-mozillateam-squad :)15:36
gnomefreakasac: it has to be lower case but i can make it show with caps15:36
gnomefreakJazzva: fta what do you think about ubuntu-mozillateam-squad15:36
gnomefreakor squid ;)15:36
gnomefreakIs anyone planning on fixing this? Or is this just a forum for everyone to complain about the same problem and reassure each-other that we aren't individually crazy?15:37
gnomefreakWho can we complain to in order to get this resolved? Doesn't anyone do any QA before releasing software these days?15:37
gnomefreakthat shit pisses me off15:37
asacbug 12470615:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 124706 in network-manager "Cancel 'Wireles Key Required' dialog, can't connect on subsequent attempt" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12470615:37
gnomefreakmore so because hes following a bug that was marked as a dupe of  anotherone that upstream is already working on15:37
asacbug 14711915:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 147119 in network-manager "network manager gives couldn't activate dialup service warning" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/14711915:38
gnomefreakasac: i reopened bug 125734 but not firefox task but i wouldnt be suprised if they bitch about it15:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 125734 in gtk+2.0 "Firefox scrollbar doesn't use the "infinite size" usability effect" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12573415:38
gnomefreak@info greasemonkey intrepid15:38
gnomefreak!info greasemonkey intrepid15:39
ubottuPackage greasemonkey does not exist in intrepid15:39
gnomefreakforgot i can only use @ for loggin in to bot and such15:39
gnomefreakyes it does you moron15:39
gnomefreak!info firefox-greasemonkey intrepid15:40
ubottufirefox-greasemonkey (source: greasemonkey): firefox extension that enables customization of webpages with user scripts. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.8.20080119.0-0ubuntu1 (intrepid), package size 80 kB, installed size 712 kB15:40
gnomefreakasac: here are some scripts for greasemonkey https://code.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-gm-scripts15:40
Jazzvagnomefreak, asac: I'm fine with ubuntu-mozillateam-squad too...15:41
* gnomefreak wonders if i should bother that team with scripts to make one for us with replys15:42
asacwe can use ubuntu-mozillasquad :)15:45
asacthats shorter ;)15:45
asacand sounds better in my ears15:45
Jazzvatrue :)15:45
asacbut gnomefreak is the only native speaker here15:46
gnomefreaki dont like them together like that but that is personal opinion15:46
asacu-buntu-mozilla-team-lurkers ;)15:47
gnomefreaki think i like squad the best16:09
asacJazzva: i think we want to merge extensions that we dont maintain in bzr16:14
asacso every extension for which we are going to setup auto upstream syncs, will definitly not come from debian16:14
asacsomehow i like the debian desktop :)16:23
asacsid in VM here ;)16:23
asacits so genuine gnomish16:24
asacthey even have spatial navigation in nautilus16:24
asacand they dont have network manager by default :-D16:25
asacwhich might or might not be a huge win16:25
asacat least that explains, why debian ships such a "pure" NM and still dont get many bug reports16:25
Jazzvaasac, hmm... so we're going for our own versioning?16:27
asacJazzva: why?16:27
asacwe drive those branches on our own16:27
Jazzvafor extensions in bzr...16:27
asacwhich hopefully means that we are ahead of debian16:27
asacbut we dont need to use a different versioning16:27
Jazzvawe won't have -XubuntuY (where X != 0)16:27
asacthats a good question16:28
JazzvaIf we're not merging from Debian, then how to rationale -XubuntuY (where X!=0)16:28
asacmaybe for the branches drive through bzr we just use an X > 9 :)16:28
asacso if ubuntu releases a package it wont appear on MoM16:28
JazzvaWhat if debian has -10? :)16:29
JazzvaMAX_INTubuntuY? ;)16:29
Jazzvajust kidding16:29
gnomefreakwe should keep XubuntuY16:29
asacwe can literally use X ;)16:29
asace.g. 3.0-Xubuntu1 ;)16:29
gnomefreak1ubuntu116:29
asacor 3.0-+ubuntu1 ;)16:30
gnomefreak1ubuntu0 than 1ubuntu2 just like every package ubuntu has for the most part16:30
asaci think thats higher than 3.0-916:30
asacbut Xubuntu1 is what i like most16:30
gnomefreakdid we push them to debian?16:30
Jazzvagnomefreak, the problem is that some people are against merging extensions from debian, since our and debian's packaging differs a lot. So, the problem is how to keep extensions off MoM :)16:30
asacno16:30
gnomefreakafaik they dont maintain them16:30
asacJazzva: thats simple. we can blacklist them16:31
asac;)16:31
gnomefreakJazzva: we dont merge any mozilla apps from debian16:31
asacif we really want16:31
asacgnomefreak: the other apps dont exist in debian :)16:31
asacmozilla apps that is16:31
gnomefreakmy point16:31
asacso they dont appear there anyway16:31
gnomefreakwhy start now16:31
Jazzvawell, debian has iceweasel :)16:31
gnomefreakwait they dont have them so what does it matter?16:31
asacgnomefreak: read the backlog. i think you miss the topic/point  ;)16:31
asacgnomefreak: this is about extensions - which might or might not be in debian16:32
asacfor which we maintain some on our own16:32
Jazzvaanyway... there's still the problem about debian's changelog entries appearing once we start merging from them (when mozilla-devscripts get into debian)16:32
gnomefreakasac: but that would intail us pushing to debian since last i heard they dont have many if any extensions for firefox16:32
asacJazzva: why is that a problem?16:33
asacJazzva: i dont think we will ever merge from debian16:33
asaceither we sync16:33
asacor we upload to both16:33
Jazzvaasac, where do we want it to appear? Above or below our versions? So, do we use -0ubuntu or -Xubuntu :)16:33
asaclike i said: Xubuntu ;)16:33
JazzvaXfce rocks :P16:34
asacreally?16:34
Jazzvalook at the version again ;)16:34
asaci found it cumbersome in the past16:34
asacgetting in my way :)16:34
asaci liked fluxbox or openbox ;)16:34
JazzvaXubuntu...16:34
asacwhen i wanted something "lightweight"16:34
JazzvaI tried using Xfce, but I didn't like it... first of all, the panel... it just didn't want to appear right. It was high, but when I set it to small, then icons appear smaller too16:35
JazzvaAnyway... this was a pun at extensions version, Xubuntu :)16:35
Jazzvaok, now to update version in those branches, and to fix bug reports... to explain we're not merging :)16:36
Jazzvawhat was the command that tested which version is greater?16:37
asacJazzva: if dpkg --compare-versions X gt 1; then echo hallo; fi16:39
Jazzvaasac, thanks :)16:40
Jazzvaso, just to be sure...16:40
Jazzvawe're not merging from debian, so I should remove their changelog entries?16:40
Jazzvaversion should be set to -XubuntuY (Y = 1, 2, ...)16:41
Jazzvaand can I use orig.tar.gz fetched from debian?16:41
Jazzva(since I already prepared those three extensions with that :/)16:42
Jazzvaasac ^16:43
* gnomefreak wonders what extensions they package16:44
Jazzvaimagezoom, livehttpheaders, ctxextensions...16:45
Jazzvathere are few more...16:45
gnomefreakah16:45
gnomefreakok im off to run errands. i will start making the team in the morning or late tonight depnding on how late i get in16:46
gnomefreaki also have to add catagory debugging to some wikis tonight as well16:46
asacJazzva: err, we use bzr, so we cannot use their orig.tar.gz16:47
gnomefreakplease email me if you change from ubuntu-mozillasquad see you later ;)16:47
Jazzvaasac, I fetched it, untarred it, then added that as new .upstream, and then merged that into .ubuntu16:48
asacJazzva: did we create the initial .upstream that way too?16:48
JazzvaNope...16:48
asacwe should use the same method16:48
asacwe used from the beginning16:48
JazzvaOk... then I'll update the branches :)16:49
asacif that was "get xpi from AMO and unpack it"16:49
asacthen we should stick to that approach16:49
asacif its something else, we can decide to swtich16:49
JazzvaOk... I'll update them later. Now to have some fun with pulse modulations (I actually like those... :))16:52
JazzvaSee you later16:52
asacfta: are we sure that we have all patches for cairo that upstream has?17:02
ftaat some point in the past yes. i haven't checked recently the 1.9 branch but there is at least 1 new patch in the 1.9.1 branch17:04
asacfta: the clip clone patch?17:04
ftahm, this one is in both branches17:06
fta...i remember a cairo patch improving performance but it may be in the gfx part, not in cairo itself17:08
ftahttp://hg.mozilla.org/index.cgi/mozilla-central/rev/694a9a4d6dcff1db0df2fd92386cd1bf7b7c73e917:10
ftathebes17:10
asacfta: maybe worth backporting?17:16
asacmozilla Bug 43573917:16
ubottuMozilla bug 435739 in GFX: Gtk "Poor performance of Firefox 3 with no X RENDER extension" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43573917:16
leoquantno more free hugs?17:33
* asac hugs leoquant 17:34
asacanyway off to sport ;)17:34
asacbbl17:34
leoquantlol17:34
armin76omg19:35
maxbIs there any official documentation regarding getting a 32-bit browser up and running on amd64 in order to be able to use a java plugin?21:29
asacmaxb: not yet.21:37
maxbAh. I'll keep playing around with my half-baked solution, then :-)21:40
maxbI have a weird issue relating to libsoftokn3.so, which is a broken symlink in the firefox-2 hardy package, yet this doesn't seem to cause problems in the normal system. Yet, when I unpack the i386 packages on my amd64 system in a temporary directory, *that* instance does complain, until I fix the broken symlink21:43
maxbvery odd. My curiosity is piqued by how it can *not* be causing problems in the main environment21:44
bimberiasac: Hi, regarding your comment on bug 214468.  What did you mean by "Conflict?". `apt-cache show xulrunner-1.9 | grep Conflict` in Hardy shows j2re1.4 for me.21:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 214468 in xulrunner-1.9 "[removal request] Remove all java 1.4 bits from hardy (Was: Epiphany crashes inside xulrunner when j2re1.4 is installed)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21446821:48
asacbimberi: oh right21:50
asacnow i remember ;)21:50
bimberiasac: phew, I thought I was going mad there ;)21:51
bimberiwell ... madder :P21:51
asacbimberi: we could bump the version of the make-jpkg produced packages by adding an epoch21:51
asacand then open it up again for version higher than that21:51
asacbimberi: the conflict was was to preven tinstallation of the j2re thing in the archive21:52
asacthe fact that make-jpkg is just an unfortunate side-effect21:52
bimberiasac: Right.  Well, as you requested, I'll have a go at it.  I guess the idea is to patch make-jpkg so that it doesn't make packages called j2re1.4??21:55
asacbimberi: well. that would one approach21:57
asacbimberi: the other ... most likely more sensible approach is to bump the version used in the package21:57
asacbimberi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23198/21:57
asacthats how changelog is currently created in j2se.sh21:57
asacthat needs to be fixes so the version in brackets reads: "(1:$j2se_version)"21:58
asacand make the conflict of xulrunner-1.9 << 1:21:58
asacmakes sense?21:59
bimberiIndeed it does.  That's sortof what I meant :) .  I can have a go at that22:00
asacbimberi: yes, fix the java-package and provide a patch22:00
asaci can then take care of xulrunner conflict22:01
asac(java-package is the source that provides make-jpkg)22:01
bimberiRighto.  I'll work on the patch.  A debdiff I guess?  Attach it to that bug, or another?22:04
* bimberi is fairly new to this22:04
asacbimberi: yes, minimal debdiff. if its not small, explain what you did, attach it to the bug and feel to prod me on IRC22:08
asacas i have hard time to catch up with bugmail22:08
asacbimberi: i can sign the patch of and then either upload or get you a sponsor22:09
asacbimberi: if there are things unclear or you run into unexpected issues, ask here :)22:09
bimberiasac: I'll do with a patch system (quilt).  I guess that's a little more than minimal.  Or am I over-engineering it?22:14
bimberis/do with/use/22:14
asacbimberi: patch system? i think its overkill to add a patchsystem for that22:14
asacbimberi: its even a native package (e.g. no orig.tar.gz), so changes inside the tree are ok22:15
bimberiasac: See, told you I was fairly new to this ;-) .22:16
asacbimberi: welcome22:16
asacbimberi: if we have a debdiff attached to the launchpad bug that is properly documented in debian/changelog all should be fine22:17
bimberiasac: Righto. No further questions (for now).  Thankyou!22:18

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