[00:00] <asac_> fta: we should try to link statically to the binaries
[00:00] <asac_> Volans: i always need testers ;)
[00:00] <Volans> if you need ask me, I have only some software limit
[00:00] <asac_> software limit?
[00:01] <asac_> what does that mean?
[00:01] <Volans> gutsy 64bit in my laptop, dapper on an old desktop and hardy on virtualbox
[00:01] <Volans> :D
[00:02] <asac_> what i seriously need is two nice secretaries in bikini that process my bug folders :)
[00:02] <asac_> Volans: thats great
[00:02] <asac_> Volans: dapper is really so important
[00:02] <Volans> ask canonical to get them for you ;)
[00:02] <asac_> i should ;)
[00:04] <Volans> I see that the tests on QA go well apart a problem on hardy
[00:04] <asac_> Volans: you already tested the current firefox in dapper right?
[00:04] <Volans> yes
[00:04] <Volans> of course :)
[00:05] <asac_> Volans: ok, the hardy bug is just about plugins
[00:05] <asac_> which makes sense, because we ignored ffox 2 for a few
[00:06] <asac_> we should really move the plugin table somewhere else. apparently it consumes a lot of resources on testers side
[00:06] <asac_> and we have no clue if they work anyway :)
[00:06] <asac_> at least we should check what works and what not before asking for testing
[00:10] <Volans> asac: I have rearranged the table only for a better aspect, I think that one test link for any plugin will be optimal
[00:11] <asac> Volans: i think plugins deserve their own page. which is then listed as a test on its own on the qa site
[00:11] <asac> we could even split them up in "main-plugins" and "universe-plugins"
[00:12] <Volans> seems a good idea, maybe separate the tests on QA and leave them on the same page in wiki
[00:12] <Volans> (same plugins page)
[00:12] <asac> Volans: hmm.
[00:12] <asac> i dont like to put too much on a page
[00:12] <Volans> I mean a separate page for plugins, divided in two section
[00:13] <asac> i think people might be confused and feel its "too hard"
[00:13] <asac> ah
[00:13] <asac> yeah
[00:13] <Volans> and 2 separate test in QA for main and universe plugins
[00:13] <asac> that would work
[00:13] <asac> otoh, we haev quite a lot of plugins
[00:13] <asac> so maybe we can put them on their own page. e.g. one page per qa.ubuntu.com testcase
[00:13] <Volans> but the real question is... if I test only totem and not flash... ?
[00:14] <Volans> one testcase for each plugins is confusing?
[00:14] <asac> i think its ok to ask them to test all on each individual case
[00:14] <asac> main are not that many plugins
[00:14] <fta> Patch bz233371_att297343_fix_outofscreen_embed_tooltip.patch does not apply (enforce with -f)
[00:14] <fta> make: *** [debian/stamp-patched] Error 1
[00:14] <asac> i think its our obligation to provide proper testcases though
[00:14] <asac> fta: 1.9.1?
[00:14] <fta> yes
[00:14] <asac> fta: dump it
[00:15] <asac> thats a questionable patch anyway which was introduced to fix ephy
[00:15] <asac> that was before the huge embedding backout. so it might even not be required on 1.9
[00:16] <asac> ah, microb backout it was called
[00:16]  * asac reactivated rotting brain cells :)
[00:17] <asac> if you are brave you can test if ephy shows its tooltips off-screen if you try to display a tooltip right to your screen border
[00:17] <fta> seems i'm not brave
[00:18] <asac> fta: yeah. just dump it then
[00:20] <asac> Volans: not really sure if we want one test case per plugin on the qa website
[00:20] <asac> Volans: one wiki page per plugin would make sense obviously
[00:20] <Volans> me too... can be confusing
[00:21] <asac> it would not represent the importance. i think that people would balance their testing effords according to the amount of entries displayed there
[00:21] <asac> so if we list general unimportant things, we might get a wrong balance of testing efforts
[00:22] <Volans> yes of course... on QA is possible to set primary test and secondary test?
[00:23] <asac> Volans: i talked to stgraber about website improvements that would not give false impressions
[00:23] <asac> e.g. like 3/3 suggests that all is done
[00:23] <asac> but i want 100 test submissions and not just 3 ;)
[00:23] <Volans> you cannot set the number?
[00:24] <asac> Volans: the number is the amount of testcases
[00:24] <Volans> one succesful test per case is enough... absurd
[00:24] <asac> once 1 tester confirmed that it worked it will be counted as done
[00:24] <asac> yeah
[00:24] <asac> so we will introduce some kind of factor
[00:25] <asac> i can configure 100 and we can display a progress bar isntead of 3/3 :)
[00:25] <asac> its kind of a marketing number though ;)
[00:25] <asac> too high might demotivate contributors
[00:25] <Volans> if you can't set primary and secondary tests.. one test per main and one per universe plugins can be already too much
[00:26] <asac> too low might cause people to not test because they think its all done
[00:26] <asac> Volans: yeah
[00:26] <asac> Volans: i think this all needs to be included in the website redesign
[00:26] <Volans> surely...
[00:26] <asac> i think we have to assume that we get more than just 2 testers
[00:27] <Volans> the final number you want maybe can not be displaies, telling only, 5 test done
[00:27] <asac> then we can use a factor and say like "normal usage" needs 30 users
[00:27] <Volans> if you open the tasks
[00:27] <asac> while plugin xy-unimportant needs 1 confirmation to get full green :)
[00:27] <Volans> you can see the specific number tests done
[00:28] <asac> Volans: well. just telling 20 done doesnt provide any incentive
[00:28] <asac> and doesnt direct forces to the right task
[00:28] <Volans> true
[00:28] <asac> we need to provide some kind of reasonable upper bound based on what the submissions we got in last testrun
[00:28] <asac> and increase that a bit each and every time
[00:28] <Volans> sounds resonable :)
[00:29] <asac> but in that way the graphic displaying the absolute progress becomes less meaningful for developers. so we will also display a small pie that shows the relation of errors vs. success
[00:29] <asac> so developers can easily spot areas of problems
[00:30] <asac> at least thats the idea atm ;)
[00:30] <Volans> the site is very simple at this stage, many iprovements can be done, only the right way have to be decided
[00:30] <asac> yeah
[00:30] <asac> we are discussing improvements for quite some time
[00:30] <asac> something has to be done
[00:31] <asac> for 6 month there has be no considerable improvement nwo
[00:31] <asac> thats my personal opinion only ;)
[00:32] <asac> anyway, its great to see so many dapper submissions ;)
[00:32] <Volans> sites imporvements can be of two types: visible from users (interface, new functionalities, ecc..) or invisible (server imporvement, software optimization, eccc)
[00:33] <asac> well, that site needs a thorough redesign from grounds up ;)
[00:33] <asac> there are so many confusing things
[00:33] <asac> even for iso testing - which is what it was designed to do initially
[00:33] <Volans> but this site is develoèped by canonical?
[00:33] <asac> not really
[00:34] <asac> its a contribution, which we now embraced and host and i think sponsor
[00:34] <asac> stgraber developed it
[00:34] <Volans> which we = canonical?
[00:34] <asac> yeah
[00:34] <Volans> ok :)
[00:34] <asac> i think its pretty important and in principal properly funded
[00:35] <asac> except that stgraber doesnt have enough time ;)
[00:35] <Volans> maybe canonical can add some programmer to the project
[00:36] <asac> Volans: well. i think they are redoing this. but i am not well informed
[00:37] <asac> the main point here is mostly that nobody reall yknows what this site should do
[00:37] <asac> and how to do it in a great way :)
[00:37] <Volans> ahahah good promming behind!
[00:37] <asac> so in short: its not understood ;)
[00:38] <Volans> and not used so much
[00:38] <Volans> as i see
[00:38] <asac> no really. there are things like hardware testing and so on that are important to get done
[00:38] <asac> and all this is supossed to be submitted to that site
[00:39] <asac> so its not a simple task to make it rock
[00:39] <asac> Volans: agreed. it needs to be better promoted.
[00:40] <Volans> if I worked for that project I think I have made a polls on the developer groups (mozillateam, hardware, iso, ecc...) to understand the needs of every group
[00:40] <asac> otoh, you cannot roll this out on a large scale if its not well thought out
[00:40] <asac> Volans: sure. we had discussions at two UDS about it
[00:41] <asac> i think i know quite well what we need for mozillateam
[00:41] <asac> iso is pretty well thought out too.
[00:42] <asac> but hardware is tricky and i sometimes get the feeling that we should keep this out of that application
[00:42] <asac> but the, the concepts for mozilla and iso dont really scale
[00:42] <asac> e.g. you cannot do that for lots of applications
[00:43] <Volans> I understand... maybe separate "section" with different functionalities
[00:43] <asac> yeah. most likely
[01:06] <asac> night!
[01:07] <Volans> night asac :)
[08:42] <gnomefreak> wiki is very slow today
[08:48]  * gnomefreak working on catagorizing wikis what should i put when im done onhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2008-06-22
[08:48]  * gnomefreak working on catagorizing wikis what should i put when im done on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2008-06-22
[08:49] <gnomefreak> also i dont think they set meetings for 6 months away but i will check sometime today i think
[09:01] <gnomefreak> did we get our clue files in bughelper by chance?
[09:14] <gnomefreak> asac: are we updating dapper FF1.5 to 2.0? or are we just gonna support 1.5 in dapper for the next year or so (dont remember when dapper desktop reaches EOS
[09:14] <gnomefreak> )
[09:23] <asac> gnomefreak: yeah 6 month is just a point not a real number. the idea is to plan a bunch ahead :)
[09:23] <asac> no matter how much ;)
[09:24] <gnomefreak> asac: ok will try
[09:25] <gnomefreak> asac: how far did you get with "Establish Processes for triaging mozilla issues" from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Roadmap
[09:25] <gnomefreak> im saving changes atm so it might be slow
[09:27] <asac> gnomefreak: that site is so rotten old
[09:27] <asac> we should dump it and redo it
[09:27] <asac> i mean even david is still on it
[09:27] <asac> so yes, that process was established :)
[09:27] <asac> but we are now at process v2 ;)
[09:27] <asac> so i have the same task again ;)
[09:30] <fta> hi
[09:31] <jdhore> asac, how do i find out if firefox is using libjemalloc.so or not?
[09:33] <gnomefreak> asac: yeah there were a few i would like to drop but i would like to get catagoys done first.
[09:34] <gnomefreak> asac: I ADDED HIS AS BLOCKED SINCE THEY WERE IN PROGRESS
[09:34] <asac> jdhore: strace -eopen -f firefox 2>&1 | grep jemalloc
[09:34] <gnomefreak> damnit i hate caps
[09:34] <asac> jdhore: well ... or just ldd /usr/lib/firefox-3.0/firefox
[09:34] <asac> gnomefreak: sure.
[09:34] <gnomefreak> asac: should i drop the wiki page totally?
[09:34] <asac> gnomefreak: yeah
[09:35] <asac> we can always create a roadmap page if we really want to
[09:35] <asac> but that one has to die for sure ;)
[09:35] <gnomefreak> asac: ok can do that now.
[09:35] <asac> gnomefreak: or maybe add a huge warning on top "THIS PAGE WAS IDENTIFIED AS CURRENTLY BEING UNMAINTAINED"
[09:35] <gnomefreak> asac: too late
[09:36] <asac> hi fta
[09:36] <asac> k+
[09:36] <gnomefreak> or not
[09:36] <fta> lsof -p `pidof firefox` | grep jemalloc
[09:36] <fta> better
[09:37] <gnomefreak> i might edit the pages to remove knowledge base from menus
[09:38] <asac> not sure lsof is always painful for me ;)
[09:40] <jdhore> fta, asac, thanks, both showed that ff3 was running/linking to libjemalloc, so i assume everything should work
[09:43] <gnomefreak> asac: what are we doing with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Accessibility none of us are working on it in general im thinking delete the page and if someone wants to work with u-a-t https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Accessibility
[09:44] <gnomefreak> oops i didnt mean to give links 2 time
[09:45] <gnomefreak> also thinking of dropping the council members that are and have been inactive and maybe add Jazzva and fta and ther eis room for another person let me know what you think
[09:47] <asac> gnomefreak: imo, we dont need a council
[09:48] <asac> but feel free to update as suggested :)
[09:48] <gnomefreak> asac: we can drop that page as well than :)
[09:48] <asac> for me the "mozillateam" is the council ;)
[09:48] <gnomefreak> agreed
[09:48] <asac> gnomefreak: yeah drop that ;)
[09:49] <gnomefreak> going to when i find it again its somewherre in the 20+ tabs i have open
[09:49] <gnomefreak> asac: let me know what you think on  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Accessibility i think drop it
[09:55] <asac> gnomefreak: i dont see why we would have any special focus on mozilla accessibililty
[09:55] <asac> why not on the javascript engine? or the layout engine?
[09:55] <asac> ;)
[09:56] <asac> gnomefreak: figure who the accessibility team consists off
[09:56] <gnomefreak> asac: dont know but that was more focused around orca or whatever it is called like more for poeple that have problems seeing
[09:56] <asac> and if they havea any need
[09:56] <asac> i can ask luke
[09:56] <gnomefreak> please do but if i get done before you have reply ill find someone to ask
[09:57] <asac> gnomefreak: ill ask luke, he uses a screenreader, so probably can tell best the current state
[09:57] <asac> luke == TheMuso
[09:57] <gnomefreak> oh him :)
[09:58] <gnomefreak> the extension pages are staying under cat. mozillateam?
[09:59] <asac> gnomefreak: yeah.
[09:59] <gnomefreak> good
[09:59] <asac> for me mozilla-extensions-dev is just a subteam
[09:59] <asac> while every mozillateam member is also a mozila-extensions-dev member
[10:00] <fta> i'm not
[10:00] <asac> and vv. is technically not true, but spiritual is valid too
[10:00] <gnomefreak> is this for real? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Firefox3Extensions/BogusList
[10:00] <asac> fta: isnt mozillateam a member of mozilla-extensions-dev?
[10:01] <asac> fta: https://edge.launchpad.net/~mozilla-extensions-dev/+members
[10:01] <asac> mozillateam is member
[10:01] <asac> so if you visit the https://edge.launchpad.net/~mozilla-extensions-dev/
[10:01] <asac> it should tell you that you are member of that team too
[10:02] <asac> fta: at least you have the extensions emblem on your homepage: https://edge.launchpad.net/~fta
[10:02] <fta> i see a "join the team" on the right
[10:02] <asac> yeah. probably a visualization bug
[10:02] <gnomefreak> fta: its because we used the mozilla team not member by member
[10:03] <asac> fta: do you want to be admin of that team?
[10:03] <asac> i can drop out of that position and hand it over to you ;)
[10:03] <gnomefreak> if you look at show teams you are of a part of it should show indirectly from mozillateam or something along those lines
[10:03] <asac> yeah. just to be admin you need to be direct member
[10:04] <fta> i have no immediate use for that, maybe later
[10:04] <gnomefreak> why do we have pages on eclipse and distcc niether of them have anything to do with mozilla afaik
[10:05] <armin76> asac: did you read what i said about the mine stuff?
[10:05] <asac> no?
[10:07] <armin76> fail
[10:07] <armin76> asac: http://rafb.net/p/eZxfY675.html
[10:08] <gnomefreak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Governance is deleted
[10:09] <asac> armin76: ok, so it works with xulmine, but not with ffox?
[10:09] <asac> (oon ppc)
[10:10] <fta> gnomefreak, i just pushed a new pastebinit to my ppa fixing the annoying bug
[10:10] <fta> (not my fix)
[10:11] <gnomefreak> fta: thanks but ummmm what annpying bug?
[10:11] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/22865/
[10:12] <asac> fta: does that go to paste.ubuntu.com?
[10:12] <fta> yes
[10:13] <asac> good
[10:13] <asac> didnt know about that even ;)
[10:13] <gnomefreak> strange i got a crash but ff didnt close, this has happened since yesterdays push
[10:13] <asac> too advanced for my rotten brain
[10:13] <asac> :-P
[10:14] <asac> but useful, indeed
[10:14]  * gnomefreak trying to get to a good stopping point before restarting FF but it still shouldnt crash right after update
[10:14] <asac> gnomefreak: what crashes?
[10:15] <gnomefreak> asac: after every update firefox tells me it closed unexpectedly but its still open
[10:15] <gnomefreak> that has happened since yesterdays ff xul updates
[10:16] <gnomefreak> and only happens right after update if i dont restart within say 5 minutes
[10:16] <asac> gnomefreak: restart == firefox ?
[10:16] <asac> or system?
[10:16] <gnomefreak> ff restart
[10:16] <fta> asac, it supports a bunch of sites now: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23051/
[10:17] <armin76> asac: yeah, but its normal it segfaulted with the windows?
[10:18] <gnomefreak> i think i will file a bug and let apport get teh stack and back so you can see what is happening. Will do this in a bit right after im done with wikis.
[10:19] <asac> armin76: yeah right
[10:19]  * asac ponders inbox
[10:20] <asac> armin76: debian bug 482415
[10:21] <asac> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=482415#133
[10:21] <asac> "I am also seeing this crash for all XUL apps on my machine, a PPC
[10:21] <asac> "
[10:23] <asac> armin76: apparently mike doesnt see the ppc problem ... http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=482415#178
[10:23] <asac> "This one is not a crash on startup, but at shutdown, and is a known issue.
[10:23] <asac> It will be fixed in next upload of xulrunner.
[10:23] <asac> "
[10:23] <asac> :-D
[10:24] <asac> poor tim allen ;)
[10:24] <asac> armin76: maybe support him :-D
[10:24] <asac> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=482415#173
[10:25] <gnomefreak> ok filing bug with apport
[10:25] <gnomefreak> i will give you link when done
[10:25] <asac> gnomefreak: about what?
[10:25] <asac> ah the crash
[10:25] <asac> sure
[10:25] <asac> gnomefreak: maybe create the backtrace locally
[10:25] <gnomefreak> The problem cannot be reported:
[10:25] <gnomefreak> This is not a genuine Ubuntu package
[10:26] <gnomefreak> asac: is there a wiki on it? i cant remember from that long ago
[10:26] <asac> armin76: where was the gentoo bug?
[10:27] <gnomefreak> we should really ask martin to add PPA's with apport :(
[10:27] <asac> i would like to answer the mail and tell mike that its a crash on startup ;)
[10:27] <armin76> asac: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=228957
[10:29] <armin76> okay, its just a glibc-2.8, nothing to do with gcc-4.3
[10:29] <asac> armin76: glibc 2.7 works?
[10:29] <armin76> yup
[10:29] <armin76> i've tried upgrading from 2.6.1 to 2.7, it didn't segfault on both
[10:29] <armin76> upgraded to 2.8, segfault
[10:30] <armin76> i'm talking about gentoo, uh? :P
[10:30] <asac> armin76: yeah thats fine
[10:30] <asac> armin76: may I cc you on the bugmail ?
[10:30] <asac> email?
[10:31] <armin76> i sent a mail already
[10:31] <armin76> but yeah, feel free, armin76@gentoo.org
[10:31] <asac> armin76: hope you have not been too nice ;)
[10:34] <asac> armin76: hmm sid chroot has glibc 2.7
[10:37] <gnomefreak> fta: asac are we not building Ffox-3.0-dbg? if not what would i install?
[10:39] <fta> too bad the spellchecker in ff is not able to remember the lang per site
[10:39] <asac> gnomefreak: xulrunner-1-9-dbgsym + firefox-3.0-dbgsym
[10:39] <fta> gnomefreak, we don't. we moved to dbgsym
[10:39] <asac> oh i think he uses ppa
[10:39] <asac> thats bad
[10:39] <fta> but not supported by ppa
[10:39] <gnomefreak> ah ok are the ddebs open for intrepid yet?
[10:39] <fta> yes
[10:39] <asac> we have to figure something for ppa imo
[10:39] <gnomefreak> well its PPA package that is crashing
[10:39] <asac> gnomefreak: yeah. for intrepid all should be there
[10:40] <armin76> asac: i'll try with debian
[10:40] <asac> armin76: good thing is that if it doesnt start on ppc, its a grave bug and debian cannot release ;)
[10:40] <asac> so they have to fix it :-D
[10:41] <gnomefreak> cant we generate the -dbg packages just for PPA and change it if we are uploading to archives? or like fta can generate them than upload the package without the -dbg to MT PPA so we can use that one to push to archives? YES its alot more work or evenmaybe as simple as commenting -dbg in control before pushing to archive
[10:41] <armin76> well, debian has some ppc boxes, so :P
[10:42] <asac> armin76: they have, but you cannot really use them
[10:42] <asac> 1st: getting dependencies installed takes about 3 month :-D
[10:42] <asac> unless you have admin power on that porter machine which usually are just 3 people
[10:42] <asac> out of which 3 are unavailable ;)
[10:42] <armin76> no chroots?
[10:43] <asac> armin76: chroots? yes! but with the ability to install software? not that i know of
[10:44] <asac> ok let me go on agricola.debian.org  :)
[10:44] <asac> http://db.debian.org/machines.cgi
[10:45] <asac> ok i dont have access to debian machines anymore
[10:45] <asac> grewat
[10:45] <armin76> haha
[10:45] <armin76> well, chroots are for those, you know? :P
[10:46] <asac> i am pretty sure that i updated my ssh keys
[10:46] <asac> most likely they removed all keys _after_ i did that
[10:46] <asac> as slow as usual
[10:47] <armin76> i wonder why ubuntu doesn't have any dev box
[10:48] <gnomefreak> i robot seal its so cute
[10:48] <gnomefreak> good girt for my sister atleast
[10:50] <asac> how can i tell gpg  to use a specific key to sign?
[10:51] <asac> the gpg manpage is just incomprehensible
[10:51] <asac> i mean it should be a simple option: "--key-id XXXX"
[10:51] <asac> instead for some commands it  uses the last argument to guess the id ... for others i dont see any
[10:55] <armin76> asac: it doesn't segfault on debian
[10:55] <asac> armin76: good
[10:55] <asac> so 2.7
[10:56] <armin76> yep
[10:57] <gnomefreak> fta: how hard is it to add a pastebin to pastebinit?
[10:57] <armin76> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux ppc; en-US; rv:1.9) Gecko/2008062113 Iceweasel/3.0 (Debian-3.0~rc2-2)
[10:57] <gnomefreak> asac: i think i got all mozillateam wiki cats. done finally :)
[10:58] <asac> great!
[10:58] <gnomefreak> if anyone finds some that doesnt have right catagories or missing them for our wikis please let me know
[10:59] <fta> gnomefreak, depends, i've already added some. which one(s) do you need ?
[10:59] <gnomefreak> now i guess i work on nss/nsspr gutsy chroot
[11:00] <gnomefreak> fta: http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/
[11:00] <gnomefreak> that is personal one for when i help out in #ubuntu and such channels
[11:02] <gnomefreak> btw what is medal of honor related to e-m-d team?
[11:02] <fta> gnomefreak, pastebin.ca support has been removed
[11:02] <fta> no idea why
[11:03] <gnomefreak> fta: ah ok yeah they did that with the old pastebin app cant think of the name off hand
[11:04] <armin76> wgetpaste!
[11:05] <asac> so what is more expensive? USB 3g adapter or PCMCIA?
[11:05] <armin76> gnomefreak: wgetpaste!
[11:05] <asac> i can get both for the same price ;) so i wonder whats smarter ;)
[11:06] <armin76> usb means you can connect it to a normal pc :P
[11:06] <asac> yeah ;)
[11:06] <asac> armin76: but does it mean that i cannot use it with linux :)?
[11:06] <asac> ;)
[11:07] <asac> i think ill go for pcmcia to start and then get other hardware from somewhere else
[11:07] <armin76> uh...iirc the huawei works under linux
[11:07] <asac> armin76: i have no clue what is what ... seriously
[11:07] <fta> PCMCIA is obsolete
[11:08] <asac> fta: what is replacement?
[11:08] <fta> ExpressCard
[11:08] <asac> yeah
[11:08] <asac> thats what this is
[11:08] <asac> (but ther eis a pcmcia adapter )
[11:09] <asac> http://www.moobicent.de/fileadmin/media/bilder/moobishop/pc-express_card.jpg
[11:09] <asac> http://www.moobicent.de/fileadmin/media/bilder/moobishop/usb-stick_01.jpg
[11:09] <armin76> http://home.coming.dk/index.php/2008/05/25/p805
[11:09] <asac> those are the two i can choose to start with ;)
[11:09] <fta> i can't plug my pcmcia cards into my ExpressCard slot
[11:09] <gnomefreak> armin76: the one i used wasnt wgetpaste
[11:09] <gnomefreak> but maybe ill lookinto that
[11:10] <asac> fta: yeah. but the one is express and you can make a pcmcia out of it ... so should work everywhere i guess
[11:10] <armin76> gnomefreak: but wgetpaste is cooler!
[11:10] <armin76> lolz
[11:10] <armin76> it needs python :D
[11:10] <asac> fta: so express or USB?
[11:10] <gnomefreak> ah it was webboard
[11:11] <armin76> gnomefreak: wgetpaste ftw!
[11:11] <gnomefreak> armin76: i will look into it and build it if i have to
[11:11] <armin76> its just a bash script :P
[11:11] <armin76> just needs bash + wget
[11:11] <gnomefreak> ah even better :)
[11:12] <armin76> i told asac to build a deb of it, but he failed :P
[11:12]  * gnomefreak has 3 bash scripts to write for one dam package
[11:12] <asac> armin76: me?
[11:12] <gnomefreak> he failed?
[11:12] <asac> armin76: we have plenty of people that look for easy packaging tasks to start with
[11:12] <gnomefreak> or it failed?
[11:12] <asac> armin76: if you want something packaged, let me know :-D
[11:13] <armin76> gnomefreak: he failed :P
[11:13] <fta> asac, I would take express as i'm equiped with that, and it's much smarter, but depends if you have usb only needs
[11:13] <fta> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExpressCard
[11:14] <gnomefreak> asac: when im done with the scripts feel free to help me turn it into a Ubuntu package but i was supposed to start this in april/early may
[11:14] <armin76> gnomefreak: http://wgetpaste.zlin.dk/wgetpaste-2.11.bz2
[11:14] <gnomefreak> is there a way to start tbird-3 in offline mode?
[11:14] <gnomefreak> armin76: thanks
[11:15] <fta> bash scripts, baaad. i hate bashisms
[11:17] <gnomefreak> fta: well for a text based address book it seems simplar afaict
[11:17] <fta> i'm old school, i write /bin/sh scripts
[11:17] <gnomefreak> and there is an out line in my bash book so i was gonna change  afew things and poof
[11:17] <gnomefreak> sh = dash afaik
[11:17] <armin76> fta: i think its not bash, just shell, because its keyworded x86-fbsd
[11:17] <gnomefreak> atleast in Ubuntu
[11:18] <armin76> ah no, its not
[11:18] <gnomefreak> well abook looks farely nice
[11:20] <fta> armin76, eh? i'm referring to "* gnomefreak has 3 bash scripts to write for one dam package"
[11:21] <gnomefreak> fta: it shows me how to combine 2 of them but still have 2 to write in that case. one is addperson one is delperson and there is search script
[11:23]  * gnomefreak not very fluent in bash but when i have one already done i can change things and figure other things out but for me on my own i have wrote a total of 6 but they are all easy ones like just a list of commands to run without use of if and such
[11:23] <asac> ok, now i feel modern. i ordered UMTS flatrate :-D
[11:23] <gnomefreak> if Jazzva can get me the outline of the blog i can have everything done within a day or 2 of getting it
[11:24] <gnomefreak> oh what is UWN?
[11:24] <asac> gnomefreak: like DWN just with a U :-D
[11:24] <fta> lol
[11:24] <gnomefreak> lol
[11:25] <gnomefreak> ah newsletter
[11:25] <gnomefreak> or navada gold
[11:25] <gnomefreak> nevada
[11:26] <asac> gnomefreak: hehe
[11:26] <asac> gnomefreak: its debian weekly news
[11:26] <asac> and ubuntu weekly news
[11:26] <gnomefreak> yeah google told me
[11:26] <gnomefreak> :)
[11:26] <gnomefreak> the blog post you want them to republish is already made or is it the one im writing?
[11:27] <asac> gnomefreak: its the one you are writing most likely
[11:28] <gnomefreak> if good we can have most of it done by monday
[11:28] <armin76> fta: ah :D
[11:28] <armin76> asac: UMTS? thats slow
[11:28] <gnomefreak> keep me informed on where everyone is on the tasks that we are working on so i know when to make next meeting
[11:29] <gnomefreak> ok im done googling these arcronims
[11:31] <gnomefreak> ok after breakfast i will start my 2nd task for today than i have gutsy chroot to fix and nss nspr hopully done by end of work day but we shall see
[11:32] <gnomefreak> be back after breakfast
[11:32] <asac> armin76: its called mobileDSL :)
[11:32] <asac> thought it was umts ;)
[11:32] <asac> up to 7.2mbit down ;)
[11:32] <asac> not sure how much ill get in real life :-D
[11:33] <asac> HSDPA-Net
[12:05] <armin76> asac: package wgetpaste :P
[12:05] <asac> armin76: why me?
[12:05] <asac> armin76: i think its time that you learn packaging ;)
[12:06] <armin76> lol
[12:06] <armin76> you told me that if i wanted something packaged, i should told you, so i'm doing so :P
[12:06] <armin76> quick!
[12:06] <asac> armin76: i told you ?
[12:06] <asac> when i was young?
[12:07] <asac> we can look for someone to package it
[12:07] <asac> but we should do it in debian
[12:08] <armin76> lol
[12:08] <armin76> yeah, look for someone, quick!
[12:08] <armin76> it depends on sed as well
[12:09] <asac> armin76: but you dont use ubuntu. so why do you want it packaged?
[12:14] <asac> tse this website complains about me not having the latest flash ... i have flash 10 ;)
[12:15] <armin76> asac: because its good :P
[12:19] <fta> asac, a lot of sites have a flash detector in js thinking that flash 9 is the greatest.. they detect flash 10 as lower than flash 1 :)
[12:20] <fta> armin76, according to google, it's packaged only by gentoo
[12:21] <armin76> fta: and archlinux
[12:25] <gnomefreak> armin76: you use gentoo right?
[12:27] <gnomefreak> asac: you told him to ask you yesterday you said something like if you want something packaged ask me but im thinking you were thinking he was on Ubuntu
[12:27] <gnomefreak> or it was this morning
[12:32] <kgoetz> hi all. i rebuilt the Firefox-2 and Firefox (3) packages from ubuntu with the OFFICAL_* lines set to 0 in the debian/rules directory. it seems they built the standard firefox packages with that change though. is there a guide to how i can change ubuntus firefox, or some pointers available?
[12:32] <kgoetz> Incase people are wondering, i'm trying to get FF rebuilt for gNewSense, and i've just started looking at it
[12:32] <asac> kgoetz: what are you trying to do? build unbranded browser?
[12:33] <kgoetz> asac: technically a rebranded browser, but i thought starting with unbranded might be easier
[12:33] <gnomefreak> gnewsense is like gobuntu isnt it?
[12:33] <gnomefreak> like free packages only
[12:33] <kgoetz> yes
[12:33] <asac> kgoetz: does gnewsense have problems with the icons being in source package? or just the binaries?
[12:34] <kgoetz> asac: in the source packages is a problem.
[12:34] <asac> kgoetz: ok. so lets think how we can do it right
[12:35] <asac> kgoetz: sorry for my ignorance about gnewsense, but where is it hosted?
[12:35] <asac> how do you sync?
[12:35] <kgoetz> asac: on FSF hardware (i think in Ireland)
[12:35] <kgoetz> *sp
[12:35] <asac> ha :)
[12:35] <asac> ok so you are independent archive wise from our infrastrcuture
[12:35] <kgoetz> ah sorry, yes we are (i didnt realise that was the question)
[12:35] <asac> kgoetz: so can you blacklist firefox-3.0 sync and do it manually?
[12:36] <kgoetz> asac: yes.
[12:37] <asac> kgoetz: ok. we have a bzr branch and mozilla-devscripts
[12:37] <asac> we could add targets to build free (maybe even rebranded) tarballs to mozilla-devscripts
[12:37] <asac> and work something out for the packaging
[12:38] <asac> so basically you would just need to run two commands to produce your packages
[12:38] <fta> is the name a problem ? (like for debian)
[12:38] <kgoetz> asac: could you poitn me to the bzr repo? i'd be keen to have a look at the devscripst
[12:38] <asac> fta: yes its name + icons
[12:38] <kgoetz> fta: the artwork is, and the way it offers to install proprietary plugins
[12:38] <asac> fta: so basically mozilla-devscripts should be able to produce dfsg packages (vs. nobinonly)
[12:38] <kgoetz> we find the plugins more of an issue then the artwork, tbh
[12:38] <asac> and maybe have an option to inject branding during tarball construcitno
[12:39] <asac> kgoetz: mozilla-devscripts is a package we have in hardy and intrepid
[12:39] <asac> we also have a branch
[12:39] <asac> wait a sec
[12:39] <asac> kgoetz: http://code.launchpad.net/~mozillateam
[12:39] <kgoetz> asac: i'd prefer the branch (i'm actually running debian, so bzr'ing stuff is easier then getting the packages)
[12:39] <asac> thats our branches ;)
[12:39] <kgoetz> cheers :)
[12:40] <asac> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/mozilla-devscripts/mozilla-devscripts
[12:40] <fta> if you can draft what you need, i'd be happy to improve mozilla-devscripts
[12:40] <asac> kgoetz: what do you want to track? our current latest stable release?
[12:40] <gnomefreak> god i hate writers block
[12:41] <asac> fta: its basically getting the remove-nonfree script from debian packages i guess. and the ability to provide a tarred branding folder
[12:41] <kgoetz> asac: for the moment LTS releases
[12:41] <asac> i have such a folder for icedove
[12:41] <asac> wait a second
[12:41] <asac> fta: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/thunderbird/icedove-branding-2.0.0.x
[12:42] <asac> kgoetz: ok, then you probably want to base your packaging branch on our .hardy branch
[12:42] <asac> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-3.0.hardy
[12:43] <kgoetz> asac: thanks
[12:44] <asac> kgoetz: so bascially starting with a rebranded tarball is a good start.
[12:44] <kgoetz> eek. cake. oven. bbs
[12:45] <gnomefreak> asac: you are beta tester for LP right?
[12:45] <asac> gnomefreak: i think i couldnt escape, yes.
[12:45] <fta> you can, starting from the home page
[12:45] <gnomefreak> asac: they got rid of alot of the crap on the left side :(
[12:46] <gnomefreak> asac: you can disable it at launchpad.net
[12:46] <gnomefreak> for 2 hours IIRC
[12:46] <asac> fta: for 2 hours ;)
[12:47] <gnomefreak> yep than disabel it for another 2 hours or you can leave the team and not test it :(
[12:47] <asac> i could leave the team, but i think there are other non-technical forces that want me to stay :)
[12:47] <asac> but well. it was only really disfunctional when they switched to the new page layout
[12:47] <asac> after that i hardly noticed that i am running beta
[12:47] <gnomefreak> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/243204  looks weird if you look above the Ubuntu task status ect...
[12:48] <asac> gnomefreak: in which way wierd?
[12:49] <gnomefreak> asac: look on the left ther eis only subscribvers and search everything else is in main part of page
[12:49] <gnomefreak> mark as dup set privicy convert to question also affects ect... are all surrounding the affects statsu importance assigned to
[12:50] <kgoetz> asac: i'll try to read through the mozillateam/firefox/firefox-3.0.hardy bzr stuff  (and the mozilla-devscripts, if its a different codebase?) and then hae a go at new tarballs
[12:50] <asac> fta: are there instructions on wiki how to do tarball?
[12:50] <asac> kgoetz: have you used bzr before?
[12:51] <asac> basically you need a tarballs directory next to your source tree ... and then can build with bzr-builddeb ..... bzr bd --merge --dont-purge --builder='dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S' (as an example)
[12:51] <gnomefreak> bzr pull is really all there is needed since mozilla-devscripts builds tar for you
[12:52] <fta> asac, what do you mean ?
[12:52] <kgoetz> asac: i have a basic understanding of bzr
[12:52] <asac> kgoetz: k
[12:52] <asac> fta: i think we have a wiki page that outlines how to build our trees ;)
[12:52] <asac> let me look
[12:52] <kgoetz> hm... bzr-debbuild. wonder if thats in backports.org
[12:53] <gnomefreak> is it ment or meant?
[12:53] <asac> kgoetz: that should be in debian
[12:53] <fta> lunch break. back in a few
[12:53] <gnomefreak> fta: have fun;)
[12:53] <asac> kgoetz: bzr-builddeb
[12:53] <asac> sorry for the shuffeling
[12:54] <kgoetz> asac: its not in stable - i'll probably have to backport it from sid/testing
[12:54] <asac> kgoetz: you want to build ffox 3 on stable?
[12:54] <asac> did xulrunner-1.9 built fine?
[12:55] <kgoetz> asac: no, i want bzr-builddeb on stable. \
[12:56] <asac> james_w: ^^
[12:56] <asac> james_w: i see that you have etch-backports branches in you builddeb bzr
[12:56] <asac> james_w: whats the easiest way for kgoetz to get bzr + builddeb on debian etch?
[12:57] <asac> i have the feeling that you already have those packages somewhere :)
[12:58] <james_w> I've never backported it, but someone else may have.
[12:59] <james_w> kgoetz: are you running the bzr from backports or etch?
[13:00] <kgoetz> james_w: my bzr is from backports
[13:00] <james_w> you could install builddeb for your user with "mkdir -p ~/.bazaar/plugins/ && bzr branch lp:bzr-builddeb ~/.bazaar/plugins/builddeb/"
[13:02] <kgoetz> hm ok
[13:03] <gnomefreak> all that? :( i just installed bzr-builddeb
[13:04]  * gnomefreak figured it would be same for debian 
[13:05] <asac> gnomefreak: not if you want it in etch ;)
[13:11] <kgoetz> can i make sure of my understanding here? firefox-3.0.hardy is the full source for FF+ubuntu changes and mozilla-descripts is the tools used to customise the FF3 repo? does that same firefox source repo generate the ubuntu FF customisation package(s?) or is that a seperate package again?
[13:13] <asac> kgoetz: no ff.hardy is just the packaging
[13:13] <asac> you need the orig.tar.gz .. which you can produce using debian/rules
[13:14] <asac> in combination with mozilla-devscripts installed
[13:14] <kgoetz> aaah. i see.
[13:15] <kgoetz> me starts reading moz-devscripts
[13:15] <asac> kgoetz: there is a readme i think
[13:16] <kgoetz> asac: thats where i've got to so far :)
[13:16] <asac> kgoetz: unfortunately we havent yet found a good enough syntax for changelog to cover all cases automagically. so you need to provide DEBIAN_TAG=... to get a specific release
[13:18] <gnomefreak> asac: should we set a experation time period for the m-c-t for new subscriptions this way if they just joined jus to have it on thier LP page but are not interested in helping out
[13:18] <gnomefreak> i guess debian doesnt have bzr packages?
[13:19] <asac> gnomefreak: they have some :)
[13:19] <gnomefreak> im thinking something like 30 days
[13:19] <asac> for instance icedove ;)
[13:19] <gnomefreak> icedove is on bzr?
[13:19] <asac> gnomefreak: what is  m-c-t
[13:19] <asac> gnomefreak: http://packages.qa.debian.org/icedove
[13:19] <gnomefreak> mozilla-community team
[13:20] <gnomefreak> i am starting the team atm but things will change when i get rid of writers block :(
[13:21] <asac> gnomefreak: do we want to use that as teamname?
[13:21] <asac> i am not sure what name to use ;)
[13:21] <gnomefreak> asac: i dont see why not
[13:21] <gnomefreak> it works for me
[13:22] <kgoetz> Is there an example .mk i can look at? - in debian/rules: add "include /usr/share/mozilla-devscripts/yourproject.mk" sounds like an obscenely easy way of reworkin FF - is lp-locale-export.mk an worth viewing example?
[13:23] <asac> kgoetz: no that one is for translation exports from launchpad
[13:23] <gnomefreak> since it is an open team the community can join and work towards membership to other team so IMHO it works under that explaintion. If you have better team name please let me know. THAT GOES FOR EVERYONE ;)
[13:23] <asac> kgoetz: the mozclient part (e.g. what gets the tarballs) is in
[13:23] <asac> src/mozclient/firefox-3.0.conf
[13:23]  * gnomefreak goes for smoke 
[13:23] <asac> look at the files in that directory
[13:23] <kgoetz> asac: thanks. i'll do that now.
[13:24] <asac> kgoetz: it might be that we need to add a feature or something for your purpose. fta would know for sure
[13:25] <kgoetz> asac: i'm willing to try and help out in that endevour, but i've never used a makefile before so i'm on a bit of a learning curve.
[13:26] <asac> kgoetz: sure. actually its perl :)
[13:26] <asac> the .mk files just hook it in
[13:26] <asac> for instance you can use MOZCLIENT_POSTCOCMD
[13:26] <asac> to do things _after_ checkout
[13:26] <kgoetz> asac: the learning curve just got a tiny bit flatter ;)
[13:26] <asac> you could copy the branding from somewhere
[13:26] <asac> or checkout a bzr branch (like the icedove-brandingf branch)
[13:26] <asac> kgoetz: haha
[13:26] <asac> kgoetz: look at the .conf files that exists
[13:27] <asac> every variable is a hook
[13:27] <asac> if you need more hooks we can probably add them ;)
[13:27] <asac> you can probably code your POSTCOCMD in everything you want ;)
[13:28] <kgoetz> i may not be back for a week or so (i should be studying, not hacking), but this is all certainly making life look a lot easier for us.
[13:29] <asac> kgoetz: yeah. if there are things we can improve we certainly want to help
[13:29] <kgoetz> asac: thanks for your offer (and assistance)
[13:29]  * gnomefreak thinking Ubuntu-Mozilla-Community
[13:29] <asac> gnomefreak: i dont like "Community"
[13:30] <asac> its ment to be a team used for potential developers that apply to mozillateam and havent done any or enough contributions yet
[13:30] <gnomefreak> asac: what would make more sense? oh and btw Community was your first idea ;)
[13:30] <asac> maybe "mozillateam-friends"
[13:30] <gnomefreak> my clock is 30 minutes fast :(
[13:30] <asac> i just used some name during meeting ;)
[13:31] <asac> i think i actually called them "cheerers" ;)
[13:31] <asac> but in the end i dont care so much about the name ;)
[13:31] <gnomefreak> yeah i know but it sounded good to me. i would personally leave team out of it since it is known to be a team
[13:31] <gnomefreak> Ubuntu-Mozilla-chearleaders? ;)
[13:31] <asac> gnomefreak: formally all our team names should start with ubuntu- i guess ... to avoid confusion about affiliation
[13:32] <asac> gnomefreak: hehe
[13:32] <asac> yeah. that team would be fun
[13:32] <asac> we need cheerleaders in a meeting
[13:32] <gnomefreak> true
[13:32] <asac> that make jokes and acrobatic things to entertain the crowed before the stars get on the scene :-D
[13:33] <gnomefreak> Ubuntu-mozilla-Beginners
[13:33] <gnomefreak> ;)
[13:33] <asac> na ... that might also offend some
[13:33] <gnomefreak> yeah i know im just thinking alloud
[13:33] <gnomefreak> aloud
[13:34] <gnomefreak> i can deal with friends
[13:34] <asac> yeah. lets think abit more and ask others ;)
[13:35] <gnomefreak> maybe ill post it to the mailinglist? or just wait for fta and Jazzva and others
[13:35] <asac> all fine with me
[13:35] <gnomefreak> ill wait for them to be around if i dont see them ill post to list tommow
[13:36] <gnomefreak> tomorrow
[13:37] <gnomefreak> damnit i should have learned to build python apps :(
[13:39] <gnomefreak> that way i can fix kde4-desktop so i can install it
[13:43] <gnomefreak> what does HTML or XML use for comments? like sh uses #
[13:43] <kgoetz> <! -- -->
[13:44] <kgoetz> they dont have single line comments per se
[13:44] <gnomefreak> thanks
[13:44] <kgoetz> np
[13:45] <gnomefreak> we really need a save option for tomboy i keep getting scared its going to dissapear
[13:46] <kgoetz> think i missed somthin o_0
[13:46] <kgoetz> tomboy?
[13:46] <kgoetz> the java-in-apache thing?
[13:50] <kgoetz> Will the mozilla-devscripts work with firefox-2? i only see 3.x and 4.0 meantiond in the README file
[13:52] <asac> kgoetz: we havent added firefox-2 there
[13:52] <asac> kgoetz: why?
[13:53] <asac> now that firefox 3 is final i dont see a reason to keep it :)
[13:53] <kgoetz> asac: i was wondering if it would be the same process to change it
[13:53] <asac> if i could i'd remove it from archive ;)
[13:53] <asac> kgoetz: yes it would be mostly identical
[13:53] <asac> but we are working for the future ;)
[13:54] <kgoetz> asac: you'd remove it? hm. Wonder if i'd get mauled for suggesting we remove it from gNS.
[13:55] <asac> kgoetz: if you base your distro on hardy, you should consider to drop it from anything new
[13:55] <asac> kgoetz: its in universe
[13:55] <asac> kgoetz: you can keep it if you want to rebrand it though ;)
[13:55] <asac> We will upgrade users to ffox 3 once ffox 2 gets out of date
[13:55] <fta> back
[13:56] <asac> err EOL
[13:56] <kgoetz> asac: we carry both main/universe as equally supported. depending on how painful rebranding FF3 turns out to be i may do 2 for the heck of it
[13:56] <asac> kgoetz: how long is your support cycle?
[13:57] <asac> kgoetz: just remember that we will move ffox 2 users to ffox 3 once its EOL. not sure if thats within your policy :)
[13:58] <asac> kgoetz: do you have your own branding?
[13:58] <kgoetz> asac: until we do the new release, then we drop the old one (so the last was 6.06 (our 1.x) to hardy 8.04 (our 2.x). dont know when the next LTS from ubuntu is, but we may change then
[13:58] <asac> kgoetz: ok
[13:58] <kgoetz> asac: yes we do. but not in "proper" mozilla branding format, just a bunch of .png's and stuff we managed to mangle over FF in dapper
[13:58] <asac> if you havent releasd the 8.04 thing yet, just dont ship ffox 2
[13:59] <kgoetz> (along with our abuse of sed on the package for name changes)
[13:59] <asac> kgoetz: yeah. but its just a one time work
[13:59] <asac> kgoetz: like what i did to icedove-branding
[13:59] <gnomefreak> ok this damn browser is starting to piss me off first crashing now freezing the whole system up
[13:59] <kgoetz> asac: i'll probably do us support for FF3 and have FF2 blocked then. sounds like the easiest thing util someone complains bitterly. :)
[14:00] <gnomefreak> we really need -dbg or -dbgsys for PPA packages
[14:00]  * gnomefreak bitterly complaining
[14:00] <gnomefreak> ;)
[14:00] <asac> kgoetz: if someone does complain he should offer his work to maintain that imo
[14:01] <kgoetz> gnomefreak: :P
[14:01] <kgoetz> asac: fair call.
[14:01] <asac> kgoetz: in ffox 3 there should not be much sedding required if you want to change the install path to not read "firefox-3.0"
[14:02] <kgoetz> asac: i dont think we are overly worried about install path (but i will have to check that out)
[14:03] <asac> kgoetz: sudo mv /usr/lib/firefox-3.0/ /usr/lib/icyman-3.0
[14:03] <asac> sudo mv /usr/lib/icyman-3.0/firefox /usr/lib/icyman-3.0/icyman
[14:03] <asac> /usr/lib/icyman-3.0/icyman
[14:03] <asac> works!!
[14:04] <kgoetz> thats almost anoyingly easy ;)
[14:04] <asac> yeah ;)
[14:07] <kgoetz> *grin*: Include this helper if you want to translate your mozilla application or extension
[14:07] <kgoetz> through launchpad.
[14:07] <kgoetz> XXX: document here!
[14:08] <asac> kgoetz: do you want to use it?
[14:08] <kgoetz> asac: the LP stuff? no, it will likely be disabled.
[14:09] <asac> kgoetz: how do you get translations?
[14:09] <asac> kgoetz: do you use our?
[14:09] <asac> you have to update them too i guess
[14:09] <kgoetz> i was amused because the last line in the readme is effetively a fixme
[14:09] <kgoetz> asac: we use ubuntus where we can, were we cant we dont get translations
[14:09] <asac> yeah ;) ... is it really amusing that there is still work left to do in this world ?
[14:10] <asac> hehe
[14:10] <asac> kgoetz: ok. lets get the packaging done. once you have that we can look at langpacks options
[14:10] <asac> kgoetz: just ping me when you run into issues :)
[14:10] <kgoetz> asac: thanks :)
[14:10] <asac> kgoetz: i think before you start you require a branding folder
[14:11] <asac> you can then play and update the orig.tar.gz manually to start
[14:11] <asac> and help us getting -devscripts right
[14:11] <asac> kgoetz: s/ping me/ping us/ :)
[14:12] <kgoetz> asac: would getting the branding dir out of the orig and replacing all the needed strings/images be ok? i started one of those. http://gnewsense.maincontent.net/burningdog2work/branding-firefox-clean.tar.bz2 (i think this is the corrct url)
[14:12] <asac> kgoetz: yes
[14:12] <asac> thats basically the procedure
[14:12] <kgoetz> cool.
[14:12] <asac> it should work (TM)
[14:12] <gnomefreak> asac: did you ping themuso yet?
[14:13] <asac> gnomefreak: nope. i think its late for him (australia)
[14:13]  * gnomefreak forgot what to ask him i know about accessibility
[14:13] <gnomefreak> asac: yep it is late there
[14:13] <kgoetz> asac: hes east coast iirc, so its 23:15~
[14:14] <asac> really? east coast has just 8h offset from berlin? though it was more ;)
[14:15] <kgoetz> its GMT+10 +/- for daylight savings
[14:15] <asac> ok
[14:15] <asac> thats 8 then
[14:15] <gnomefreak> its 9:14 on east coast (usa atleast) au is like 13 hours ahead of us give or take
[14:16] <gnomefreak> bootleg movies are not legal right?
[14:16] <asac> IANAL
[14:16] <asac> and certainly i dont know anything about the US ;)
[14:16] <asac> except that everything is illegal there :-D
[14:16] <asac> except shooting around ;)
[14:17] <kgoetz> hehe
[14:17] <gnomefreak> true but i really want this movie now
[14:17] <asac> then dont talk about it on a public channel ;)
[14:17] <kgoetz> at least we arnt transitioning to daylight savings atm. we have 5 zones at a couple of poitns iirc
[14:18] <asac> kgoetz: daylight saving should be the other way around in au right?
[14:18] <asac> so we get two hours closer when we move 1h ahead ;)
[14:18] <asac> and the gap widens by 2h when we move back ;)
[14:19] <kgoetz> only for some states. QLD/NT dont change time at all (iirc).  the rest do
[14:19] <kgoetz> anyway. off to bed. i've got to get to work tomorrow and be awake(ish)
[14:19] <asac> daylight saving is completely outdated imo
[14:19] <asac> bye
[14:19] <kgoetz> night all :)
[14:20]  * asac goes for lunch
[14:20] <asac> ;)
[14:20] <kgoetz> :)
[14:26] <Jazzva> gnomefreak, I'm here now
[14:27] <gnomefreak> Jazzva: can you give me some ideas on the name for the new team?
[14:27] <Jazzva> gnomefreak, I like -community, -friends and maybe -supporters
[14:27] <gnomefreak> Jazzva: im asking everyone me and asac have tried a few
[14:27] <gnomefreak> asac: supporters?
[14:27] <gnomefreak> that sounds good
[14:28] <gnomefreak> oh shit hes at lunch
[14:28] <gnomefreak> Jazzva: thanks
[14:28] <Jazzva> and as for ubuntu-mozilla- vs. mozillateam- vs. ...-, you guys know the policy better than I do :)
[14:28] <Jazzva> gnomefreak, np :)
[14:28] <gnomefreak> i thiink i like that one maybe i will use team but i need to look at the exact name of the team we have first
[14:30] <gnomefreak> anyone have a clue if you can start tbird in offline mode from terminal?
[14:31] <Jazzva> gnomefreak, -offline
[14:31] <gnomefreak> does it work?
[14:31] <Jazzva> Well, dunno... Found that on MDC
[14:31] <gnomefreak> ah ok ill try it
[14:31] <Jazzva> http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Command_Line_Options#-offline
[14:32] <gnomefreak> oh yeah it dumps core :(
[14:32] <gnomefreak> Jazzva: it crashes if you do that with tbird-3
[14:33] <Jazzva> Not using tb3 :)
[14:33] <gnomefreak> eh i can check mail in tbird 2 than open tbird 3 and work with it with no mail
[14:37] <fta> i plan to drop tb3 and maybe sm2. i'm not using them and i can hardly maintain things without using them.. not to mention that i lack time.
[14:38] <fta> i have no idea how many users i have, ppa provides no stats
[14:39] <gnomefreak> i guess that means i will be taking it
[14:43] <fta> according to popcon, i have 43 users of tb3 and 16 of sm2. no idea how far from reality it is, ie how popular popcon is
[14:45] <gnomefreak> i dont think i use it but it is installed by default now
[14:45] <fta> i don't use it for sure
[14:45] <gnomefreak> is it named something else
[14:45] <gnomefreak> policy didnt find it in repos
[14:46] <carlinuxleaner> Hey I just had a question about this e-mail titled "Firefox 2.0.0.15 Candidate Builds and Backports"
[14:46] <gnomefreak> popularity-contest
[14:46] <fta> gnomefreak, i explicitly disable that
[14:46] <gnomefreak> carlinuxleaner: what about it and what email (sorry havent gotten to email yet
[14:46] <gnomefreak> fta: ah
[14:46] <gnomefreak> i used it once during feisty devel cycle but not since
[14:47] <carlinuxleaner> it's a e-mail I got from "qatracker@stgraber.org"
[14:47] <carlinuxleaner> heres what it says
[14:47] <gnomefreak> carlinuxleaner: ok what about it
[14:47] <gnomefreak> carlinuxleaner: i know the email
[14:47] <carlinuxleaner> oh
[14:47] <carlinuxleaner> ok
[14:47] <gnomefreak> we are looking for testers that is what the qa tracker is for
[14:47] <carlinuxleaner> how do I go about testing the canidate builds?
[14:48] <gnomefreak> iirc dapper and feisty testers
[14:48] <gnomefreak> carlinuxleaner: there should be a link to get it from in email or on the site
[14:48] <fta> lol, i have more users for ff4 then for ff3.1, itself more than tb3
[14:48] <gnomefreak> fta: do you have that email handy by chance? i need to finish what im doing before i can check email
[14:48]  * gnomefreak has ff4 or atleast did 
[14:49] <gnomefreak> i still have it
[14:49] <gnomefreak> fta: it uses spareate profile right?
[14:50] <fta> yes
[14:50] <gnomefreak> and my typing sucks ive been up since 2am and didnt get to sleep til after 12 am
[14:51] <fta> but don't bother following ff4, it's dead for now, it was an exact copy of ff3, before they decided that mozilla-central will be 3.1 instead of 4.0
[14:52] <carlinuxleaner> thanks
[14:53] <Jazzva> carlinuxleaner, go to http://mozlla.qa.ubuntu.com
[14:53] <Jazzva> sorry
[14:53] <Jazzva> carlinuxleaner, http://mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com
[14:54] <carlinuxleaner> yeah I'm there already
[14:55] <gnomefreak> oh damn that would be why no updates
[14:55] <gnomefreak> i remember the talk on that but i thought 3.1 was gonna be next point release
[14:55] <carlinuxleaner> only one thing I'm not so sure of, what does this command do? "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
[14:56] <gnomefreak> carlinuxleaner: it makes sure you are up to date
[14:56] <gnomefreak> calas long as you dont change your sources.list file you will stay on same ubuntu version
[14:56] <carlinuxleaner> what?
[14:57] <gnomefreak> carlinuxleaner: it makes sure you are up to date just dont edit your sources.list file
[14:57] <carlinuxleaner> isn't that like the upgrade "dist" distribution command?
[14:57] <gnomefreak> carlinuxleaner: dist-upgrade will upgrade thiigs that upgrade wont
[14:57] <gnomefreak> carlinuxleaner: only if you change the ubuntu version in your sources.list file
[14:58] <gnomefreak> that is only time it will bring you to new ubuntu version
[14:58] <carlinuxleaner> ahh, ok
[14:58]  * gnomefreak thinking i should ask mvo to add a warning or a comment to dist-upgrade before it runs
[14:59] <gnomefreak> fta: let me know when you plan on dropping tbird 3 i will be glad to take it over if you dont want it, not sure i want seamonkey at this time
[15:00] <carlinuxleaner> pooh, I have to update my kernel
[15:00] <gnomefreak> carlinuxleaner: thats what dist-upgrade does
[15:00] <gnomefreak> it upgrades kernels hal and other things that upgrade wont
[15:00] <carlinuxleaner> yeah, I always dread that because of my graphics card, better go backup my xorg.conf
[15:01] <gnomefreak> carlinuxleaner: in hardy you should be fine
[15:01] <gnomefreak> but backup is always best
[15:01] <carlinuxleaner> I'm in gusty
[15:02] <gnomefreak> fta: asac how do you feel about Ubuntu-Mozilla-Supporters or Ubuntu-Mozillateam-Supporters?
[15:02] <gnomefreak> i like it i just have to figure out if team should be in there
[15:03] <gnomefreak> i like supporters better than helpers TBH
[15:07] <gnomefreak> lol major breakage and they are worried about updating langpacks
[15:07] <fta> the 2nd, Ubuntu-Mozillateam-Supporters. it seems wider
[15:08] <fta> http://www.grep.be/blog/en/computer/cluebat/firefox_sucks_really
[15:12] <gnomefreak> asac: ping me when you get back from lunch please
[15:35] <asac> gnomefreak: ping
[15:35] <gnomefreak> asac: ubuntu-Mozillateam-Supporters?
[15:36] <asac> gnomefreak: yeah, but everything lower case would be better i think
[15:36] <gnomefreak> Jazzva: and fta like it
[15:36] <asac> gnomefreak: another idea is ubuntu-mozillateam-squad :)
[15:36] <gnomefreak> asac: it has to be lower case but i can make it show with caps
[15:36] <gnomefreak> Jazzva: fta what do you think about ubuntu-mozillateam-squad
[15:36] <gnomefreak> or squid ;)
[15:37] <gnomefreak> Is anyone planning on fixing this? Or is this just a forum for everyone to complain about the same problem and reassure each-other that we aren't individually crazy?
[15:37] <gnomefreak> Who can we complain to in order to get this resolved? Doesn't anyone do any QA before releasing software these days?
[15:37] <gnomefreak> that shit pisses me off
[15:37] <asac> bug 124706
[15:37] <gnomefreak> more so because hes following a bug that was marked as a dupe of  anotherone that upstream is already working on
[15:38] <asac> bug 147119
[15:38] <gnomefreak> asac: i reopened bug 125734 but not firefox task but i wouldnt be suprised if they bitch about it
[15:38] <gnomefreak> @info greasemonkey intrepid
[15:39] <gnomefreak> !info greasemonkey intrepid
[15:39] <gnomefreak> forgot i can only use @ for loggin in to bot and such
[15:39] <gnomefreak> yes it does you moron
[15:40] <gnomefreak> !info firefox-greasemonkey intrepid
[15:40] <gnomefreak> asac: here are some scripts for greasemonkey https://code.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-gm-scripts
[15:41] <Jazzva> gnomefreak, asac: I'm fine with ubuntu-mozillateam-squad too...
[15:42]  * gnomefreak wonders if i should bother that team with scripts to make one for us with replys
[15:45] <asac> we can use ubuntu-mozillasquad :)
[15:45] <asac> thats shorter ;)
[15:45] <asac> and sounds better in my ears
[15:45] <Jazzva> true :)
[15:46] <asac> but gnomefreak is the only native speaker here
[15:46] <gnomefreak> i dont like them together like that but that is personal opinion
[15:47] <asac> u-buntu-mozilla-team-lurkers ;)
[16:09] <gnomefreak> i think i like squad the best
[16:14] <asac> Jazzva: i think we want to merge extensions that we dont maintain in bzr
[16:14] <asac> so every extension for which we are going to setup auto upstream syncs, will definitly not come from debian
[16:23] <asac> somehow i like the debian desktop :)
[16:23] <asac> sid in VM here ;)
[16:24] <asac> its so genuine gnomish
[16:24] <asac> they even have spatial navigation in nautilus
[16:25] <asac> and they dont have network manager by default :-D
[16:25] <asac> which might or might not be a huge win
[16:25] <asac> at least that explains, why debian ships such a "pure" NM and still dont get many bug reports
[16:27] <Jazzva> asac, hmm... so we're going for our own versioning?
[16:27] <asac> Jazzva: why?
[16:27] <asac> we drive those branches on our own
[16:27] <Jazzva> for extensions in bzr...
[16:27] <asac> which hopefully means that we are ahead of debian
[16:27] <asac> but we dont need to use a different versioning
[16:27] <Jazzva> we won't have -XubuntuY (where X != 0)
[16:28] <asac> thats a good question
[16:28] <Jazzva> If we're not merging from Debian, then how to rationale -XubuntuY (where X!=0)
[16:28] <asac> maybe for the branches drive through bzr we just use an X > 9 :)
[16:28] <asac> so if ubuntu releases a package it wont appear on MoM
[16:29] <Jazzva> What if debian has -10? :)
[16:29] <Jazzva> MAX_INTubuntuY? ;)
[16:29] <Jazzva> just kidding
[16:29] <gnomefreak> we should keep XubuntuY
[16:29] <asac> we can literally use X ;)
[16:29] <asac> e.g. 3.0-Xubuntu1 ;)
[16:29] <gnomefreak> 1ubuntu1
[16:30] <asac> or 3.0-+ubuntu1 ;)
[16:30] <gnomefreak> 1ubuntu0 than 1ubuntu2 just like every package ubuntu has for the most part
[16:30] <asac> i think thats higher than 3.0-9
[16:30] <asac> but Xubuntu1 is what i like most
[16:30] <gnomefreak> did we push them to debian?
[16:30] <Jazzva> gnomefreak, the problem is that some people are against merging extensions from debian, since our and debian's packaging differs a lot. So, the problem is how to keep extensions off MoM :)
[16:30] <asac> no
[16:30] <gnomefreak> afaik they dont maintain them
[16:31] <asac> Jazzva: thats simple. we can blacklist them
[16:31] <asac> ;)
[16:31] <gnomefreak> Jazzva: we dont merge any mozilla apps from debian
[16:31] <asac> if we really want
[16:31] <asac> gnomefreak: the other apps dont exist in debian :)
[16:31] <asac> mozilla apps that is
[16:31] <gnomefreak> my point
[16:31] <asac> so they dont appear there anyway
[16:31] <gnomefreak> why start now
[16:31] <Jazzva> well, debian has iceweasel :)
[16:31] <gnomefreak> wait they dont have them so what does it matter?
[16:31] <asac> gnomefreak: read the backlog. i think you miss the topic/point  ;)
[16:32] <asac> gnomefreak: this is about extensions - which might or might not be in debian
[16:32] <asac> for which we maintain some on our own
[16:32] <Jazzva> anyway... there's still the problem about debian's changelog entries appearing once we start merging from them (when mozilla-devscripts get into debian)
[16:32] <gnomefreak> asac: but that would intail us pushing to debian since last i heard they dont have many if any extensions for firefox
[16:33] <asac> Jazzva: why is that a problem?
[16:33] <asac> Jazzva: i dont think we will ever merge from debian
[16:33] <asac> either we sync
[16:33] <asac> or we upload to both
[16:33] <Jazzva> asac, where do we want it to appear? Above or below our versions? So, do we use -0ubuntu or -Xubuntu :)
[16:33] <asac> like i said: Xubuntu ;)
[16:34] <Jazzva> Xfce rocks :P
[16:34] <asac> really?
[16:34] <Jazzva> look at the version again ;)
[16:34] <asac> i found it cumbersome in the past
[16:34] <asac> getting in my way :)
[16:34] <asac> i liked fluxbox or openbox ;)
[16:34] <Jazzva> Xubuntu...
[16:34] <asac> when i wanted something "lightweight"
[16:35] <Jazzva> I tried using Xfce, but I didn't like it... first of all, the panel... it just didn't want to appear right. It was high, but when I set it to small, then icons appear smaller too
[16:35] <Jazzva> Anyway... this was a pun at extensions version, Xubuntu :)
[16:36] <Jazzva> ok, now to update version in those branches, and to fix bug reports... to explain we're not merging :)
[16:37] <Jazzva> what was the command that tested which version is greater?
[16:39] <asac> Jazzva: if dpkg --compare-versions X gt 1; then echo hallo; fi
[16:40] <Jazzva> asac, thanks :)
[16:40] <Jazzva> so, just to be sure...
[16:40] <Jazzva> we're not merging from debian, so I should remove their changelog entries?
[16:41] <Jazzva> version should be set to -XubuntuY (Y = 1, 2, ...)
[16:41] <Jazzva> and can I use orig.tar.gz fetched from debian?
[16:42] <Jazzva> (since I already prepared those three extensions with that :/)
[16:43] <Jazzva> asac ^
[16:44]  * gnomefreak wonders what extensions they package
[16:45] <Jazzva> imagezoom, livehttpheaders, ctxextensions...
[16:45] <Jazzva> there are few more...
[16:45] <gnomefreak> ah
[16:46] <gnomefreak> ok im off to run errands. i will start making the team in the morning or late tonight depnding on how late i get in
[16:46] <gnomefreak> i also have to add catagory debugging to some wikis tonight as well
[16:47] <asac> Jazzva: err, we use bzr, so we cannot use their orig.tar.gz
[16:47] <gnomefreak> please email me if you change from ubuntu-mozillasquad see you later ;)
[16:48] <Jazzva> asac, I fetched it, untarred it, then added that as new .upstream, and then merged that into .ubuntu
[16:48] <asac> Jazzva: did we create the initial .upstream that way too?
[16:48] <Jazzva> Nope...
[16:48] <asac> we should use the same method
[16:48] <asac> we used from the beginning
[16:49] <Jazzva> Ok... then I'll update the branches :)
[16:49] <asac> if that was "get xpi from AMO and unpack it"
[16:49] <asac> then we should stick to that approach
[16:49] <asac> if its something else, we can decide to swtich
[16:52] <Jazzva> Ok... I'll update them later. Now to have some fun with pulse modulations (I actually like those... :))
[16:52] <Jazzva> See you later
[17:02] <asac> fta: are we sure that we have all patches for cairo that upstream has?
[17:04] <fta> at some point in the past yes. i haven't checked recently the 1.9 branch but there is at least 1 new patch in the 1.9.1 branch
[17:04] <asac> fta: the clip clone patch?
[17:06] <fta> hm, this one is in both branches
[17:08] <fta> ...i remember a cairo patch improving performance but it may be in the gfx part, not in cairo itself
[17:10] <fta> http://hg.mozilla.org/index.cgi/mozilla-central/rev/694a9a4d6dcff1db0df2fd92386cd1bf7b7c73e9
[17:10] <fta> thebes
[17:16] <asac> fta: maybe worth backporting?
[17:16] <asac> mozilla Bug 435739
[17:33] <leoquant> no more free hugs?
[17:34]  * asac hugs leoquant 
[17:34] <asac> anyway off to sport ;)
[17:34] <asac> bbl
[17:34] <leoquant> lol
[19:35] <armin76> omg
[21:29] <maxb> Is there any official documentation regarding getting a 32-bit browser up and running on amd64 in order to be able to use a java plugin?
[21:37] <asac> maxb: not yet.
[21:40] <maxb> Ah. I'll keep playing around with my half-baked solution, then :-)
[21:43] <maxb> I have a weird issue relating to libsoftokn3.so, which is a broken symlink in the firefox-2 hardy package, yet this doesn't seem to cause problems in the normal system. Yet, when I unpack the i386 packages on my amd64 system in a temporary directory, *that* instance does complain, until I fix the broken symlink
[21:44] <maxb> very odd. My curiosity is piqued by how it can *not* be causing problems in the main environment
[21:48] <bimberi> asac: Hi, regarding your comment on bug 214468.  What did you mean by "Conflict?". `apt-cache show xulrunner-1.9 | grep Conflict` in Hardy shows j2re1.4 for me.
[21:50] <asac> bimberi: oh right
[21:50] <asac> now i remember ;)
[21:51] <bimberi> asac: phew, I thought I was going mad there ;)
[21:51] <bimberi> well ... madder :P
[21:51] <asac> bimberi: we could bump the version of the make-jpkg produced packages by adding an epoch
[21:51] <asac> and then open it up again for version higher than that
[21:52] <asac> bimberi: the conflict was was to preven tinstallation of the j2re thing in the archive
[21:52] <asac> the fact that make-jpkg is just an unfortunate side-effect
[21:55] <bimberi> asac: Right.  Well, as you requested, I'll have a go at it.  I guess the idea is to patch make-jpkg so that it doesn't make packages called j2re1.4??
[21:57] <asac> bimberi: well. that would one approach
[21:57] <asac> bimberi: the other ... most likely more sensible approach is to bump the version used in the package
[21:57] <asac> bimberi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23198/
[21:57] <asac> thats how changelog is currently created in j2se.sh
[21:58] <asac> that needs to be fixes so the version in brackets reads: "(1:$j2se_version)"
[21:58] <asac> and make the conflict of xulrunner-1.9 << 1:
[21:59] <asac> makes sense?
[22:00] <bimberi> Indeed it does.  That's sortof what I meant :) .  I can have a go at that
[22:00] <asac> bimberi: yes, fix the java-package and provide a patch
[22:01] <asac> i can then take care of xulrunner conflict
[22:01] <asac> (java-package is the source that provides make-jpkg)
[22:04] <bimberi> Righto.  I'll work on the patch.  A debdiff I guess?  Attach it to that bug, or another?
[22:04]  * bimberi is fairly new to this
[22:08] <asac> bimberi: yes, minimal debdiff. if its not small, explain what you did, attach it to the bug and feel to prod me on IRC
[22:08] <asac> as i have hard time to catch up with bugmail
[22:09] <asac> bimberi: i can sign the patch of and then either upload or get you a sponsor
[22:09] <asac> bimberi: if there are things unclear or you run into unexpected issues, ask here :)
[22:14] <bimberi> asac: I'll do with a patch system (quilt).  I guess that's a little more than minimal.  Or am I over-engineering it?
[22:14] <bimberi> s/do with/use/
[22:14] <asac> bimberi: patch system? i think its overkill to add a patchsystem for that
[22:15] <asac> bimberi: its even a native package (e.g. no orig.tar.gz), so changes inside the tree are ok
[22:16] <bimberi> asac: See, told you I was fairly new to this ;-) .
[22:16] <asac> bimberi: welcome
[22:17] <asac> bimberi: if we have a debdiff attached to the launchpad bug that is properly documented in debian/changelog all should be fine
[22:18] <bimberi> asac: Righto. No further questions (for now).  Thankyou!