[00:00] fta: we should try to link statically to the binaries [00:00] Volans: i always need testers ;) [00:00] if you need ask me, I have only some software limit [00:00] software limit? [00:01] what does that mean? [00:01] gutsy 64bit in my laptop, dapper on an old desktop and hardy on virtualbox [00:01] :D [00:02] what i seriously need is two nice secretaries in bikini that process my bug folders :) [00:02] Volans: thats great [00:02] Volans: dapper is really so important [00:02] ask canonical to get them for you ;) [00:02] i should ;) [00:04] I see that the tests on QA go well apart a problem on hardy [00:04] Volans: you already tested the current firefox in dapper right? [00:04] yes [00:04] of course :) [00:05] Volans: ok, the hardy bug is just about plugins [00:05] which makes sense, because we ignored ffox 2 for a few [00:06] we should really move the plugin table somewhere else. apparently it consumes a lot of resources on testers side [00:06] and we have no clue if they work anyway :) [00:06] at least we should check what works and what not before asking for testing === asac_ is now known as asac [00:10] asac: I have rearranged the table only for a better aspect, I think that one test link for any plugin will be optimal [00:11] Volans: i think plugins deserve their own page. which is then listed as a test on its own on the qa site [00:11] we could even split them up in "main-plugins" and "universe-plugins" [00:12] seems a good idea, maybe separate the tests on QA and leave them on the same page in wiki [00:12] (same plugins page) [00:12] Volans: hmm. [00:12] i dont like to put too much on a page [00:12] I mean a separate page for plugins, divided in two section [00:13] i think people might be confused and feel its "too hard" [00:13] ah [00:13] yeah [00:13] and 2 separate test in QA for main and universe plugins [00:13] that would work [00:13] otoh, we haev quite a lot of plugins [00:13] so maybe we can put them on their own page. e.g. one page per qa.ubuntu.com testcase [00:13] but the real question is... if I test only totem and not flash... ? [00:14] one testcase for each plugins is confusing? [00:14] i think its ok to ask them to test all on each individual case [00:14] main are not that many plugins [00:14] Patch bz233371_att297343_fix_outofscreen_embed_tooltip.patch does not apply (enforce with -f) [00:14] make: *** [debian/stamp-patched] Error 1 [00:14] i think its our obligation to provide proper testcases though [00:14] fta: 1.9.1? [00:14] yes [00:14] fta: dump it [00:15] thats a questionable patch anyway which was introduced to fix ephy [00:15] that was before the huge embedding backout. so it might even not be required on 1.9 [00:16] ah, microb backout it was called [00:16] * asac reactivated rotting brain cells :) [00:17] if you are brave you can test if ephy shows its tooltips off-screen if you try to display a tooltip right to your screen border [00:17] seems i'm not brave [00:18] fta: yeah. just dump it then [00:20] Volans: not really sure if we want one test case per plugin on the qa website [00:20] Volans: one wiki page per plugin would make sense obviously [00:20] me too... can be confusing [00:21] it would not represent the importance. i think that people would balance their testing effords according to the amount of entries displayed there [00:21] so if we list general unimportant things, we might get a wrong balance of testing efforts [00:22] yes of course... on QA is possible to set primary test and secondary test? [00:23] Volans: i talked to stgraber about website improvements that would not give false impressions [00:23] e.g. like 3/3 suggests that all is done [00:23] but i want 100 test submissions and not just 3 ;) [00:23] you cannot set the number? [00:24] Volans: the number is the amount of testcases [00:24] one succesful test per case is enough... absurd [00:24] once 1 tester confirmed that it worked it will be counted as done [00:24] yeah [00:24] so we will introduce some kind of factor [00:25] i can configure 100 and we can display a progress bar isntead of 3/3 :) [00:25] its kind of a marketing number though ;) [00:25] too high might demotivate contributors [00:25] if you can't set primary and secondary tests.. one test per main and one per universe plugins can be already too much [00:26] too low might cause people to not test because they think its all done [00:26] Volans: yeah [00:26] Volans: i think this all needs to be included in the website redesign [00:26] surely... [00:26] i think we have to assume that we get more than just 2 testers [00:27] the final number you want maybe can not be displaies, telling only, 5 test done [00:27] then we can use a factor and say like "normal usage" needs 30 users [00:27] if you open the tasks [00:27] while plugin xy-unimportant needs 1 confirmation to get full green :) [00:27] you can see the specific number tests done [00:28] Volans: well. just telling 20 done doesnt provide any incentive [00:28] and doesnt direct forces to the right task [00:28] true [00:28] we need to provide some kind of reasonable upper bound based on what the submissions we got in last testrun [00:28] and increase that a bit each and every time [00:28] sounds resonable :) [00:29] but in that way the graphic displaying the absolute progress becomes less meaningful for developers. so we will also display a small pie that shows the relation of errors vs. success [00:29] so developers can easily spot areas of problems [00:30] at least thats the idea atm ;) [00:30] the site is very simple at this stage, many iprovements can be done, only the right way have to be decided [00:30] yeah [00:30] we are discussing improvements for quite some time [00:30] something has to be done [00:31] for 6 month there has be no considerable improvement nwo [00:31] thats my personal opinion only ;) [00:32] anyway, its great to see so many dapper submissions ;) [00:32] sites imporvements can be of two types: visible from users (interface, new functionalities, ecc..) or invisible (server imporvement, software optimization, eccc) [00:33] well, that site needs a thorough redesign from grounds up ;) [00:33] there are so many confusing things [00:33] even for iso testing - which is what it was designed to do initially [00:33] but this site is develoèped by canonical? [00:33] not really [00:34] its a contribution, which we now embraced and host and i think sponsor [00:34] stgraber developed it [00:34] which we = canonical? [00:34] yeah [00:34] ok :) [00:34] i think its pretty important and in principal properly funded [00:35] except that stgraber doesnt have enough time ;) [00:35] maybe canonical can add some programmer to the project [00:36] Volans: well. i think they are redoing this. but i am not well informed [00:37] the main point here is mostly that nobody reall yknows what this site should do [00:37] and how to do it in a great way :) [00:37] ahahah good promming behind! [00:37] so in short: its not understood ;) [00:38] and not used so much [00:38] as i see [00:38] no really. there are things like hardware testing and so on that are important to get done [00:38] and all this is supossed to be submitted to that site [00:39] so its not a simple task to make it rock [00:39] Volans: agreed. it needs to be better promoted. [00:40] if I worked for that project I think I have made a polls on the developer groups (mozillateam, hardware, iso, ecc...) to understand the needs of every group [00:40] otoh, you cannot roll this out on a large scale if its not well thought out [00:40] Volans: sure. we had discussions at two UDS about it [00:41] i think i know quite well what we need for mozillateam [00:41] iso is pretty well thought out too. [00:42] but hardware is tricky and i sometimes get the feeling that we should keep this out of that application [00:42] but the, the concepts for mozilla and iso dont really scale [00:42] e.g. you cannot do that for lots of applications [00:43] I understand... maybe separate "section" with different functionalities [00:43] yeah. most likely [01:06] night! [01:07] night asac :) === jetsaredim is now known as jetsaredim_zzz [08:42] wiki is very slow today [08:48] * gnomefreak working on catagorizing wikis what should i put when im done onhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2008-06-22 [08:48] * gnomefreak working on catagorizing wikis what should i put when im done on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2008-06-22 [08:49] also i dont think they set meetings for 6 months away but i will check sometime today i think [09:01] did we get our clue files in bughelper by chance? [09:14] asac: are we updating dapper FF1.5 to 2.0? or are we just gonna support 1.5 in dapper for the next year or so (dont remember when dapper desktop reaches EOS [09:14] ) [09:23] gnomefreak: yeah 6 month is just a point not a real number. the idea is to plan a bunch ahead :) [09:23] no matter how much ;) [09:24] asac: ok will try [09:25] asac: how far did you get with "Establish Processes for triaging mozilla issues" from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Roadmap [09:25] im saving changes atm so it might be slow [09:27] gnomefreak: that site is so rotten old [09:27] we should dump it and redo it [09:27] i mean even david is still on it [09:27] so yes, that process was established :) [09:27] but we are now at process v2 ;) [09:27] so i have the same task again ;) [09:30] hi [09:31] asac, how do i find out if firefox is using libjemalloc.so or not? [09:33] asac: yeah there were a few i would like to drop but i would like to get catagoys done first. [09:34] asac: I ADDED HIS AS BLOCKED SINCE THEY WERE IN PROGRESS [09:34] jdhore: strace -eopen -f firefox 2>&1 | grep jemalloc [09:34] damnit i hate caps [09:34] jdhore: well ... or just ldd /usr/lib/firefox-3.0/firefox [09:34] gnomefreak: sure. [09:34] asac: should i drop the wiki page totally? [09:34] gnomefreak: yeah [09:35] we can always create a roadmap page if we really want to [09:35] but that one has to die for sure ;) [09:35] asac: ok can do that now. [09:35] gnomefreak: or maybe add a huge warning on top "THIS PAGE WAS IDENTIFIED AS CURRENTLY BEING UNMAINTAINED" [09:35] asac: too late [09:36] hi fta [09:36] k+ [09:36] or not [09:36] lsof -p `pidof firefox` | grep jemalloc [09:36] better [09:37] i might edit the pages to remove knowledge base from menus [09:38] not sure lsof is always painful for me ;) [09:40] fta, asac, thanks, both showed that ff3 was running/linking to libjemalloc, so i assume everything should work [09:43] asac: what are we doing with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Accessibility none of us are working on it in general im thinking delete the page and if someone wants to work with u-a-t https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Accessibility [09:44] oops i didnt mean to give links 2 time [09:45] also thinking of dropping the council members that are and have been inactive and maybe add Jazzva and fta and ther eis room for another person let me know what you think [09:47] gnomefreak: imo, we dont need a council [09:48] but feel free to update as suggested :) [09:48] asac: we can drop that page as well than :) [09:48] for me the "mozillateam" is the council ;) [09:48] agreed [09:48] gnomefreak: yeah drop that ;) [09:49] going to when i find it again its somewherre in the 20+ tabs i have open [09:49] asac: let me know what you think on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Accessibility i think drop it [09:55] gnomefreak: i dont see why we would have any special focus on mozilla accessibililty [09:55] why not on the javascript engine? or the layout engine? [09:55] ;) [09:56] gnomefreak: figure who the accessibility team consists off [09:56] asac: dont know but that was more focused around orca or whatever it is called like more for poeple that have problems seeing [09:56] and if they havea any need [09:56] i can ask luke [09:56] please do but if i get done before you have reply ill find someone to ask [09:57] gnomefreak: ill ask luke, he uses a screenreader, so probably can tell best the current state [09:57] luke == TheMuso [09:57] oh him :) [09:58] the extension pages are staying under cat. mozillateam? [09:59] gnomefreak: yeah. [09:59] good [09:59] for me mozilla-extensions-dev is just a subteam [09:59] while every mozillateam member is also a mozila-extensions-dev member [10:00] i'm not [10:00] and vv. is technically not true, but spiritual is valid too [10:00] is this for real? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Firefox3Extensions/BogusList [10:00] fta: isnt mozillateam a member of mozilla-extensions-dev? [10:01] fta: https://edge.launchpad.net/~mozilla-extensions-dev/+members [10:01] mozillateam is member [10:01] so if you visit the https://edge.launchpad.net/~mozilla-extensions-dev/ [10:01] it should tell you that you are member of that team too [10:02] fta: at least you have the extensions emblem on your homepage: https://edge.launchpad.net/~fta [10:02] i see a "join the team" on the right [10:02] yeah. probably a visualization bug [10:02] fta: its because we used the mozilla team not member by member [10:03] fta: do you want to be admin of that team? [10:03] i can drop out of that position and hand it over to you ;) [10:03] if you look at show teams you are of a part of it should show indirectly from mozillateam or something along those lines [10:03] yeah. just to be admin you need to be direct member [10:04] i have no immediate use for that, maybe later [10:04] why do we have pages on eclipse and distcc niether of them have anything to do with mozilla afaik [10:05] asac: did you read what i said about the mine stuff? [10:05] no? [10:07] fail [10:07] asac: http://rafb.net/p/eZxfY675.html [10:08] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Governance is deleted [10:09] armin76: ok, so it works with xulmine, but not with ffox? [10:09] (oon ppc) [10:10] gnomefreak, i just pushed a new pastebinit to my ppa fixing the annoying bug [10:10] (not my fix) [10:11] fta: thanks but ummmm what annpying bug? [10:11] http://paste.ubuntu.com/22865/ [10:12] fta: does that go to paste.ubuntu.com? [10:12] yes [10:13] good [10:13] didnt know about that even ;) [10:13] strange i got a crash but ff didnt close, this has happened since yesterdays push [10:13] too advanced for my rotten brain [10:13] :-P [10:14] but useful, indeed [10:14] * gnomefreak trying to get to a good stopping point before restarting FF but it still shouldnt crash right after update [10:14] gnomefreak: what crashes? [10:15] asac: after every update firefox tells me it closed unexpectedly but its still open [10:15] that has happened since yesterdays ff xul updates [10:16] and only happens right after update if i dont restart within say 5 minutes [10:16] gnomefreak: restart == firefox ? [10:16] or system? [10:16] ff restart [10:16] asac, it supports a bunch of sites now: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23051/ [10:17] asac: yeah, but its normal it segfaulted with the windows? [10:18] i think i will file a bug and let apport get teh stack and back so you can see what is happening. Will do this in a bit right after im done with wikis. [10:19] armin76: yeah right [10:19] * asac ponders inbox [10:20] armin76: debian bug 482415 [10:20] Debian bug 482415 in iceweasel "iceweasel: crashes immediately upon startup" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/482415 [10:21] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=482415#133 [10:21] Debian bug 482415 in iceweasel "iceweasel: crashes immediately upon startup" [Important,Open] [10:21] "I am also seeing this crash for all XUL apps on my machine, a PPC [10:21] " [10:23] armin76: apparently mike doesnt see the ppc problem ... http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=482415#178 [10:23] "This one is not a crash on startup, but at shutdown, and is a known issue. [10:23] It will be fixed in next upload of xulrunner. [10:23] " [10:23] Debian bug 482415 in iceweasel "iceweasel: crashes immediately upon startup" [Important,Open] [10:23] :-D [10:24] poor tim allen ;) [10:24] armin76: maybe support him :-D [10:24] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=482415#173 [10:24] Debian bug 482415 in iceweasel "iceweasel: crashes immediately upon startup" [Important,Open] [10:25] ok filing bug with apport [10:25] i will give you link when done [10:25] gnomefreak: about what? [10:25] ah the crash [10:25] sure [10:25] gnomefreak: maybe create the backtrace locally [10:25] The problem cannot be reported: [10:25] This is not a genuine Ubuntu package [10:26] asac: is there a wiki on it? i cant remember from that long ago [10:26] armin76: where was the gentoo bug? [10:27] we should really ask martin to add PPA's with apport :( [10:27] i would like to answer the mail and tell mike that its a crash on startup ;) [10:27] asac: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=228957 [10:27] bugs.gentoo.org bug 228957 in Applications "www-client/mozilla-firefox-3.0-r1 segmentation fault on ppc and ppc64/32ul (gcc-4.3.1/glibc-2.8)" [Normal,New] [10:29] okay, its just a glibc-2.8, nothing to do with gcc-4.3 [10:29] armin76: glibc 2.7 works? [10:29] yup [10:29] i've tried upgrading from 2.6.1 to 2.7, it didn't segfault on both [10:29] upgraded to 2.8, segfault [10:30] i'm talking about gentoo, uh? :P [10:30] armin76: yeah thats fine [10:30] armin76: may I cc you on the bugmail ? [10:30] email? [10:31] i sent a mail already [10:31] but yeah, feel free, armin76@gentoo.org [10:31] armin76: hope you have not been too nice ;) [10:34] armin76: hmm sid chroot has glibc 2.7 [10:37] fta: asac are we not building Ffox-3.0-dbg? if not what would i install? [10:39] too bad the spellchecker in ff is not able to remember the lang per site [10:39] gnomefreak: xulrunner-1-9-dbgsym + firefox-3.0-dbgsym [10:39] gnomefreak, we don't. we moved to dbgsym [10:39] oh i think he uses ppa [10:39] thats bad [10:39] but not supported by ppa [10:39] ah ok are the ddebs open for intrepid yet? [10:39] yes [10:39] we have to figure something for ppa imo [10:39] well its PPA package that is crashing [10:39] gnomefreak: yeah. for intrepid all should be there [10:40] asac: i'll try with debian [10:40] armin76: good thing is that if it doesnt start on ppc, its a grave bug and debian cannot release ;) [10:40] so they have to fix it :-D [10:41] cant we generate the -dbg packages just for PPA and change it if we are uploading to archives? or like fta can generate them than upload the package without the -dbg to MT PPA so we can use that one to push to archives? YES its alot more work or evenmaybe as simple as commenting -dbg in control before pushing to archive [10:41] well, debian has some ppc boxes, so :P [10:42] armin76: they have, but you cannot really use them [10:42] 1st: getting dependencies installed takes about 3 month :-D [10:42] unless you have admin power on that porter machine which usually are just 3 people [10:42] out of which 3 are unavailable ;) [10:42] no chroots? [10:43] armin76: chroots? yes! but with the ability to install software? not that i know of [10:44] ok let me go on agricola.debian.org :) [10:44] http://db.debian.org/machines.cgi [10:45] ok i dont have access to debian machines anymore [10:45] grewat [10:45] haha [10:45] well, chroots are for those, you know? :P [10:46] i am pretty sure that i updated my ssh keys [10:46] most likely they removed all keys _after_ i did that [10:46] as slow as usual [10:47] i wonder why ubuntu doesn't have any dev box [10:48] i robot seal its so cute [10:48] good girt for my sister atleast [10:50] how can i tell gpg to use a specific key to sign? [10:51] the gpg manpage is just incomprehensible [10:51] i mean it should be a simple option: "--key-id XXXX" [10:51] instead for some commands it uses the last argument to guess the id ... for others i dont see any [10:55] asac: it doesn't segfault on debian [10:55] armin76: good [10:55] so 2.7 [10:56] yep [10:57] fta: how hard is it to add a pastebin to pastebinit? [10:57] Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux ppc; en-US; rv:1.9) Gecko/2008062113 Iceweasel/3.0 (Debian-3.0~rc2-2) [10:57] asac: i think i got all mozillateam wiki cats. done finally :) [10:58] great! [10:58] if anyone finds some that doesnt have right catagories or missing them for our wikis please let me know [10:59] gnomefreak, depends, i've already added some. which one(s) do you need ? [10:59] now i guess i work on nss/nsspr gutsy chroot [11:00] fta: http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/ [11:00] that is personal one for when i help out in #ubuntu and such channels [11:02] btw what is medal of honor related to e-m-d team? [11:02] gnomefreak, pastebin.ca support has been removed [11:02] no idea why [11:03] fta: ah ok yeah they did that with the old pastebin app cant think of the name off hand [11:04] wgetpaste! [11:05] so what is more expensive? USB 3g adapter or PCMCIA? [11:05] gnomefreak: wgetpaste! [11:05] i can get both for the same price ;) so i wonder whats smarter ;) [11:06] usb means you can connect it to a normal pc :P [11:06] yeah ;) [11:06] armin76: but does it mean that i cannot use it with linux :)? [11:06] ;) [11:07] i think ill go for pcmcia to start and then get other hardware from somewhere else [11:07] uh...iirc the huawei works under linux [11:07] armin76: i have no clue what is what ... seriously [11:07] PCMCIA is obsolete [11:08] fta: what is replacement? [11:08] ExpressCard [11:08] yeah [11:08] thats what this is [11:08] (but ther eis a pcmcia adapter ) [11:09] http://www.moobicent.de/fileadmin/media/bilder/moobishop/pc-express_card.jpg [11:09] http://www.moobicent.de/fileadmin/media/bilder/moobishop/usb-stick_01.jpg [11:09] http://home.coming.dk/index.php/2008/05/25/p805 [11:09] those are the two i can choose to start with ;) [11:09] i can't plug my pcmcia cards into my ExpressCard slot [11:09] armin76: the one i used wasnt wgetpaste [11:09] but maybe ill lookinto that [11:10] fta: yeah. but the one is express and you can make a pcmcia out of it ... so should work everywhere i guess [11:10] gnomefreak: but wgetpaste is cooler! [11:10] lolz [11:10] it needs python :D [11:10] fta: so express or USB? [11:10] ah it was webboard [11:11] gnomefreak: wgetpaste ftw! [11:11] armin76: i will look into it and build it if i have to [11:11] its just a bash script :P [11:11] just needs bash + wget [11:11] ah even better :) [11:12] i told asac to build a deb of it, but he failed :P [11:12] * gnomefreak has 3 bash scripts to write for one dam package [11:12] armin76: me? [11:12] he failed? [11:12] armin76: we have plenty of people that look for easy packaging tasks to start with [11:12] or it failed? [11:12] armin76: if you want something packaged, let me know :-D [11:13] gnomefreak: he failed :P [11:13] asac, I would take express as i'm equiped with that, and it's much smarter, but depends if you have usb only needs [11:13] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExpressCard [11:14] asac: when im done with the scripts feel free to help me turn it into a Ubuntu package but i was supposed to start this in april/early may [11:14] gnomefreak: http://wgetpaste.zlin.dk/wgetpaste-2.11.bz2 [11:14] is there a way to start tbird-3 in offline mode? [11:14] armin76: thanks [11:15] bash scripts, baaad. i hate bashisms [11:17] fta: well for a text based address book it seems simplar afaict [11:17] i'm old school, i write /bin/sh scripts [11:17] and there is an out line in my bash book so i was gonna change afew things and poof [11:17] sh = dash afaik [11:17]