/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/06/27/#ubuntu-bugs.txt

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Gralco_bdmurray if you confirm a bug do you assign the bug to no one or should you keep the bug assigned to yourself?01:17
bdmurrayGralco_: bugs should only be assigned to people when they are In Progress really01:18
greg-gadding more: assignment is used mainly to show who is working on FIXING the bug, not diagnosing/triaging it01:19
bdmurraygreg-g: hey, how's it going?01:19
Gralco_bdmurray what will usually happen to a bug after it is confirmed then?01:19
hggdh_Gralco if you are done with the bug (i.e., confirmed/triaged it, set owner to nobody01:19
hggdh_the maintainers will eventually look at it01:19
Gralco_once i unassign it01:19
bdmurrayOr a member of bug control may set it to Triaged01:20
Gralco_who fixes the bug01:20
hggdh_it may need forwarding upstream -- in this case upstream will fix it01:21
greg-gbdmurray: hiya, it is going well, really busy with my internship :) (hence not responding to that email from pedro yet ;) )01:21
hggdh_or, if it is something under our control, one of the maintainers will fix it (or even you, if you know what to do)01:21
greg-gbdmurray: how have things been with you?01:22
bdmurraygreg-g: good, working on some exciting stuff01:23
greg-gbdmurray: was that a question or a statement? :)01:23
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bdmurrayThat was a statement.01:24
greg-gbecause, for me, yes, I am working on some pretty cool stuff.  But, I have also notice some cool/good changes coming from QA01:24
greg-gs/notice/noticed/01:24
bdmurrayHow do you like the west coast?01:27
greg-gI like it, I'm getting used the crazy weather here in the bay area (it was 100 degrees in Oakland last weekend, and now it is in the 60s).  And, hearing people say that highs in the 60s is like winter weather.01:32
bdmurrayRight not much snow in that area.01:33
greg-gBut, having a great time doing my intern duties; met with some people at Apple yesterday, specifically their Open Source person (kinda like Chris DiBona at Google) (and yes, Apple does have one, honest)01:33
greg-ghe is actually on the board of the Open Souce Initiative01:33
greg-gso, I've been busy, but fun busy.01:34
bdmurrayThat's always good.01:34
greg-gyeah01:34
Gralco_where do i find a bugs identification number01:38
Gralco_is it just the number of the bug?01:39
bdmurrayGralco_: yes, those numbers are unique01:39
Gralco_bdmurray: its the number that is in the url correct?01:40
bdmurrayyes, that is correct01:40
Gralco_okay thanks01:40
* greg-g heads out01:42
* greg-g waves to bdmurray and everyone else01:42
Gralco_bdmurray when i apply for the bug control team do you want me to show you the bugs that i marked as duplicates for a bug that i triaged01:46
Gralco_within the application01:46
bdmurrayI'd ideally like to see different types of activities.  So maybe 1 duplicate marking, 1 converting to a question, 3 conversations with reporters.01:47
bdmurrayThere are some guidelines at the bug control page as to what I look for.01:48
Gralco_bdmurray: What do you mean by converting to a question?01:51
hggdhGralco_, its when you find a bug that is actually a question, an usage issue, not a package problem02:00
Gralco_hggdh: Yeah, I just saw it it under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage Special types of bugs.02:03
Gralco_hggdh: I just don't know whats required of me with triaging them02:04
hggdhGralco_, basically: reading the bug description, and checking if (1) you understand the issue; (2) if all necessary data is available; (3) asking for clarification or more specific data, if needed02:05
hggdhyou may not understand what the bug is about -- do not get stressed over it. Leave it alone, and go find another. If you do not know what to do, but would like to learn, you can add yourself as a subscriber02:06
Gralco_okay02:07
Gralco_is there a wiki for triaging these02:07
hggdhit is just using common sense, and reading the wiki pages on how to triage specific packages (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures)02:08
hggdhand -- of course -- learning ;-)02:08
hggdhGralco_, you may feel more confortable, to start, if you find a package you like; then work on bugs for either only, or mostly, this package02:09
hggdhGralco_, yes, the HowToTriage is a good introduction to what we do. A priori, I would suggest you to *not* work on the "special" bugs, until you understand what they are about02:11
Gralco_hggdh: Okay I understand how to triage all other bugs though.02:13
hggdhcool. The "special" ones are dealt directly by package maintainers (or some of us with a LOT of experience on what they mean). They pretty much deal with packaging02:15
hggdhGralco_, one most important point is the difference between package bugs and support issues (which need to be re-routed to https://answers.launchpad.net/ and/or to #ubuntu. For example, "I cannot connect to my email server" is almost certainly a support issue, not a package issue02:20
hggdhso -->> off to answers.launchpad.net with it (in a nice way)02:20
persiaExcept in the rare case where it is because the preferred email client crashes on start, in which case the title ought be altered :)02:21
hggdh:-)02:21
hggdhI was just writing about it  -->"on the other hand, "Evolution crashes when connecting to email server" is a real bug02:22
persiahggdh: Ah.  Sorry then.  I've just seen a few bugs that look like support requests, but have attached stacktraces or the like.02:22
hggdhpersia, np, I undertood you, and you were faster than I was :-)02:23
hggdhbut this is still a good point: one must understand WHAT is the problem before making a decision02:24
persiaUnfortunately, not all submitters understand the distinction between "this software has a defect", and "my use case doesn't work with this software as configured in my environment".  I believe this is due to the large grey area, where something could be solved as support, but may well be a case of missing or incorrect defaults, etc.02:24
hggdhindeed; this can also be applied here -- sometimes we fail to correctly distinguish them02:25
persiaIf we had an infinite number of bug triagers and question answerers, I'd like to have a feature "fork into a question" to handle the difference, but I think both teams have enough work now without such duplication.02:25
hggdhand we also had the fact that the reporter is free to re-open the bug02:26
hggdhGralco_, ^^^02:26
hggdhs/had/have/02:26
persiaIn cases in the grey area, I think I prefer to keep it a bug, and post the workaround in the bug.  Otherwise it might never get the attention it deserves (unfortunately few developers are also question answers, whereas many are also bug triagers)02:26
Gralco_hggdh what do you mean by re-open02:26
hggdhI think this is a sane approach, persia: when in doubt keep it02:27
hggdhGralco_, when we close a bug, for whatever reason, the reporter (or anyone, in fact) can disagree with our action, and reset the bug status to new02:28
hggdh(a bug is considered closed when it has "Invalid", "Wont fix", or "Fix released" as status02:28
persiaThinking about it, it may be useful to alter the recommended template to avoid the term "re-open", as it may cause confusion.  Instead, we could provide those disagreeing with the recommendation to return the status to "New" with an appropriate comment (to signal that new triage is required).02:30
hggdhhuh, if we had an infinite number of bug triagers and question answerers, we might also get the complete works of Shakespeare ;-)02:31
hggdhbdmurray ^^02:31
persiaHeh.  There is that.02:31
hggdhsee persia's comment, please. I agree -- makes things more consistent02:32
* hggdh must train to say "set to new" instead of "reopen"02:32
hggdhGralco_, still. The discussion we just had here points to the fact that one MUST understand what is the issue, before deciding on s course of action02:34
persiaThat's the hardest part of bug triage.02:36
persiaOn the other hand, it can be the most rewarding.  There are few things that can be as satisfying as truly understanding a problem, understanding a solution that works, and documenting it sufficiently that it benefits all users.02:37
hggdhyes, I agree -- but then this is what I do for a living (solve problems), so I am biased...02:38
persiaEven just documenting the problem can be very satisfying, if someone else then understands clearly, and can get think of a solution.02:38
hggdhand this is part of the work -- understanding the issue, and (perhaps) rephrasing it in more consistent way02:39
persiaYep.  I think that's why I like apport so much.  It provides all the puzzle pieces: with a couple hours, one can usually describe the problem.02:39
hggdhand I *never* understood why we disable apport on release...02:40
persiavolume.02:40
hggdheven with the automation we are putting behind it, for duplicates?02:41
persiaEssentially, we have a medium-sized team here triaging bugs, and only 10-15 people watching the new bugs in #ubuntu-bugs-announce.02:41
hggdhand we will be releasing 8.4.01 soon -- without apport set on?02:41
persiaWhen 3 million people report a bug because of a crash in a default application, we have an issue.02:41
hggdhwell, yes... if they all report at the same time, we will run out of storage, bandwidth, and bug numbers...02:42
persiaWhen 1 of those people is sufficiently frustrated to report a bug, and is willing to run apport manually on the crash report (in GNOME, `gnome-open /var/crash/...`), this is often sufficient to prepare a fix.02:42
hggdh(on my case, I run it manually when I feel the need)02:43
persiaRight.  When a user reports a non-apport crash, and the triager is able to open an apport report, verify it is complete (clean trace, etc.), and link the original report as a duplicate of the new, complete, report, we get a good bug, and we don't get lots of extra apport bugs.02:46
persiaOne of the classes of apport bugs that annoys me is the appoort prompt on startup, after an environmental system crash (loss of power, etc.).  The user may be told to file 5 or more bugs, when there was no actual problem other than that the system state was corrupt.02:47
persiaRestricting use to volunteer testers and those who understand the tool helps reduce the invalid bug reports generated in this sort of situation.02:47
persiaOf course, with an infinite number of triagers, turning it on makes sense :)02:47
hggdhand the infinite storage and bandwidth :-)02:52
hggdhsigh... just found that upstream is not going to backport to stable a fix to Evolution...02:53
LaserLineCan someone help me file a bug... I'm trying to file a bug for gnome-about-me, but it's saying the package doesn't exist in launchpad05:45
crimsun_the name of the source package is gnome-control-center05:48
crimsun_dpkg -S $(/bin/which gnome-about-me)05:49
LaserLinecrimsun:  Thanks.  Hopefully I did everything correctly... it's filed here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/24342905:51
ubottuLaunchpad bug 243429 in gnome-control-center "About Me & Evolution work and home emails are switched" [Undecided,New]05:52
EverettgM1819is the file tranfer problem in Pidgin 2.4.1 for the AIM client a bug?06:04
EverettgM1819Is the file tranfer problem in Pidgin 2.4.1 for the AIM client a bug?06:10
EverettgM1819Is the file tranfer problem in Pidgin 2.4.1 for the AIM client a bug?06:10
EverettgM1819Is the file tranfer problem in Pidgin 2.4.1 for the AIM client a bug?06:10
EverettgM1819oops bad key06:11
persiaThe answer is a firm "maybe".  You likely need to specify "the file transfer problem" in more detail, as others may not be familar with that which you are experiencing.06:12
RAOFpersia: Too slow, he's gone. :(06:12
persiaSuch is ever the case with the new ones.  Like fresh fish, they must be hooked sharply at the first bite.06:13
RAOFBut not too sharply, lest the hook simply cut through the lip.06:14
persiaRight.  There's an art to it.06:15
bliZZardzpersia : am getting bored now :) .. someone debug me06:34
Gralcohow do i report an upstream for rhythmbox06:59
bliZZardzGralco : create a bug there and report it in launchpad as part of the comment. Change the status to 'confirmed' (if you find that there is indeed a bug upstream)06:59
techno_freakinteresting bug #243431, as far as i enquired around you can use only the space available in the source FS and the size of local FS becomes invalid07:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 243431 in nautilus "Can't copy to disk mounted under a Samba share if space doesn't exist in the share" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24343107:00
Gralcowhere do i go to report one that i have confirmed07:01
techno_freakGralco, check "also affects project" link  n the left07:01
techno_freakon*07:01
Gralcodoes that send it upstream07:01
techno_freakGralco, you have to check upstream bugs, if you dont find a similar one, report upstream and link it here07:01
Gralcoyes there are no duplicates07:02
techno_freakGralco, then, if my knowledge is right, create a bug in upstream and link it here07:02
Gralcowhat is the url for upstream bug to send to rhythmbox07:04
techno_freakGralco, think it's the GNOME bugzilla07:07
IulianGralco: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=rhythmbox07:37
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qensepersia: I'm creating a Blueprint for the Ubuntu Wanted site and to make the links to previous discussion complete I'd like to upload our conversation about it and link to it. Do you mind if I'd upload the email you sent me?14:49
persiaqense: Firstly, my apologies for the delay in responding to your last message about it: I've not yet gelled a response.14:57
qenseno point :) persons tend to be busy14:57
persiaThat said, I think it may make more sense to distill the concepts from the discussion for the wiki, rather than pointing to them as some historical document.14:58
qenseok14:58
qenseI'm creating a detailed specification at the wiki anyway, so if you'd wait a few minutes you'll have something mroe to response14:58
qenseand if I'd forget something you've said you can always edit the page14:59
persiaqense: With luck, I'll have some time to think on this more on Sunday, so even if you find a delay, it shan't likely have significant impact.14:59
qenseok14:59
qenseSunday isn't that far away, but I don't know what shan't means :D15:01
persiaOh, and in terms of nomenclature, I think I prefer "role" to "task", in the hopes of generating repeat activity and empowering people, rather than just listing all the stuff that isn't done yet.15:02
persiaAnyway, more when I'm less distracted :)15:02
qenseok15:02
qenseit's indeed better, I've already been doubting what to use15:02
persiajames_w: Have you confirmed that the new upstream nicotine still expresses bug #180363?  Despite my explanation of the trace, I'm not sure it's triaged.15:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 180363 in nicotine "nicotine crashed with IndexError in _parse()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18036315:03
persiaIf nothing else, if verified, it would benefit from an updated title and description.15:07
james_wpersia: ah, I forgot it was an older version15:08
james_wI've got an intrepid box upstairs, I'll try it later.15:10
persiajames_w: Even confirming on Hardy has value: that was a hardy development snapshot issue.15:14
persiaAlso, I'm not sure it's "Medium".  It only happens for hu_HU.UTF-8, and only if python-pyvorbis (in Recommends:) is not installed.  Isn't that "Low"?15:15
persia(assuming it still happens at all)15:16
james_woh, yeah, I forgot you had to have that package missing as well.15:16
james_wnot my finest bug triage :-)15:17
persiajames_w: No worries.  Leaving a testcase comment and not triaging the bug likely wasn't the best example of my work either :)15:18
vhaarrpersia: http://pastey.net/9012315:57
vhaarrthat's what I got when I followed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace15:58
persiaYeah.  That's why I want an apport trace.  There's some symbols missing (I don't know why), and they are missing at the interface between audacious and the libraries, which is likely the source of the bug.15:59
vhaarrI thought apport was supposed to magically pop up when something crashed, but I'm not getting anything.16:00
persiaIt might be a vfs bug also, but I'd be more interested in fixing audacios, as it's probably easier to understand the problem there.16:00
persiavhaarr: It needs to be forcibly enabled to automatically pop up.16:00
persiaOn the other hand, by being installed, you should get something in /var/crash/ which you can open directly (e.g. apport-cli -c /var/crash/$(thiscrashreport) )16:02
vhaarryeah it doesn't create any logs there16:02
vhaarrunless I need to reboot after installing the apport daemon16:02
persiaHmm..  I don't know enough about how apport works to direct you then: I'm more of an apport consumer.16:02
vhaarrbut I don't think so16:03
vhaarrperhaps it would be an idea for me to jump on audacious' IRC channel, if they have one, and relay the bug report there16:08
* vhaarr checks16:08
bdmurrayapport is only enabled for development releases16:12
primes2hHi all. Since Edgy reached end of life, can I set 2.6.17 kernel version bugs as Invalid?16:14
bdmurrayprimes2h: just a second let me check something16:15
bdmurrayprimes2h: this wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20080425 has some guidelines for what to do with them16:16
persiabdmurray: Is there a way to generate an apport trace on a stable release, or is it impossible?16:16
bdmurraythe 2.6.17 task should be "Won't Fixed" but we'd really like to find out what happens with Hardy if they can test or already running it16:17
bdmurraypersia: yes, I'm looking for the relevant documentation16:18
persiabdmurray: Excellent news.  Thank you.16:18
bdmurraypersia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed16:18
persiavhaarr: That' it: `gconftool -s /apps/update-notifier/show_apport_crashes --type bool true` and set true in /etc/default/apport  You'll need to restart /etc/initi.d/apport or reboot.16:19
primes2hbdmurray: Thank you very much. Just a question, I'm using launchpad beta and 'won't fix' is not listed anymore.16:21
primes2h?!16:21
vhaarrpersia: that didn't make it generate a log or pop up a dialog either, but it seems the bug has gotten some more debug info now, and I talked to some audacious person and pasted my conversation with him in the bug as well16:22
bdmurrayprimes2h: Right, sorry that is an ACL'd status so using Won't Fix will be fine.16:22
vhaarrwell, 'sudo /etc/init.d/apport restart' didn't make it work, I won't reboot now, leaving for work anyway16:22
persiavhaarr: Hmm.  Maybe there's something else stripping the symbol then.  Thanks for trying.16:22
vhaarrthanks for your help, I have to go :)16:22
primes2hbdmurray: what do you mean? I can't set it as 'won't fix'16:23
bdmurrayprimes2h: that's correct only members of a certain team can so using Invalid will be fine.  sorry about that.16:23
primes2hbdmurray: Ok, thank you very much indeed.16:24
Hobbsee!ping16:24
ubottuping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore16:24
bdmurraypedro_: where does $line come from?16:30
pedro_bdmurray: a cat file | while read line16:30
bdmurrayokay, what I'm really curious about is the the contents of that file16:31
pedro_bdmurray: i'll send it to you if you want to16:32
bdmurraypedro_: that'd be great16:33
sbeattiepastebin perhaps?16:33
pedro_sure, it's just a list of packages anyways16:33
pedro_bdmurray: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23329/16:35
bdmurraypedro_: are you using a packaged version or a bzr version?16:40
pedro_bdmurray: the packaged version 0.2.1416:41
bdmurrayokay, I'll see what I can find out16:41
pedro_rock, thanks you ;-)16:42
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norsettopedro_: re. bug 243522, what makes you think that gmplayer is in the gnome-mplayer package?17:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 243522 in gnome-mplayer "Crashes the ltsp edubuntu 7.10 server" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24352217:39
pedro_norsetto: the search list on LP returns me that, if is not feel free to re assign it17:39
norsettopedro_: the search list on LP returns a list of packages, they have nothing to do (ok, some do) with the binaries they contain17:40
norsettopedro_: you can use apt-file, or p.u.c. for that17:41
pedro_norsetto: sure, next time17:42
norsettopedro_: thx17:42
LimCorehello17:42
LimCoreanother day, another EPIC failure of ubuntu17:42
LimCoreit seems that recently in 8.04 amd64 kwallet suddenly stoped working?  I cant open wallets, dont see any wallets, I even can not create new walles. No messages, no nothing, it just dont show up17:43
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yjwongHi, I would like to bring attention to bug #208750 (regarding GVFS), which I think can be fixed right now with any GVFS/GNOME (or even just C programmers) hackers. I have traced the bug down to code level. Anyone willing to help?18:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 208750 in gvfs "gvfsd-ftp - Pure-FTPd Error: Invalid reply" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/20875018:39
yjwongUpstream has not confirmed the bug; as they said that "Unconfirmed" has essentially the same status as "New" (:18:39
yjwongOh, and if this should not be here, I would appreciate if someone direct me to the right channel18:40
pochu#nautilus on irc.gimp.net is a better place, if you're sure that's an upstream bug18:41
pochuotherwise, this is ok18:41
pochuexplaining what you have found in the bug report is a good start though18:42
yjwongIt's upstream, in GVFSD. But GVFS is a subproject of Nautilus?18:42
pochuno, but there's is no #gvfs channel and gvfs hackers are in #nautilus18:43
yjwongAh, I see. Thanks for your information (:18:43
pochunp18:43
pochu(and gvfs discussion is on-topic there)18:43
yjwongAlright, thanks. I was afraid it wasn't on topic, and talking about that, I still feel the Ubuntu community is more friendly (:18:44
pochuGNOME folks are nice :)18:45
bdmurraypochu: there is some packaging python documentation that you've written or worked on right?18:45
yjwongHaha sure. But I've never really participated in GNOME, so yeah. I'm copying and pasting my sentence there (:18:45
pochubdmurray: yup20:29
pochubdmurray: I gave a session on OpenWeek, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekhardy/PythonPackaging, which somebody then converted to a tutorial, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python20:31
pochuI haven't reviewed it yet though20:31
emgentheya pochu :)20:38
pochuhey emgent!20:43
pochuhow are you :)20:43
emgentfine, but it`s very hot.. :(20:43
emgentand you?20:43
pochufine, thanks :)20:44
emgentnice20:44
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MajostHello22:53
bdmurrayMajost: hi there23:05
MajostI submitted a case which I think should be looked at with a bit of seriousness23:11
Majost24363023:12
MajostIt'23:12
MajostNot really a security hole... but still pretty important. ;P23:12
bdmurraybug 24363023:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 243630 in ubuntu "Hardy release files contain invalid SHA256 signatures." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24363023:13
bdmurrayMajost: thanks for bringing it up we are looking into it23:21
Majostnp23:25
Majost=)23:25
MajostI didn't check any other releases, but it probably would be wise. heh23:25

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