/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/06/27/#ubuntu-marketing.txt

=== e-jat is now known as e-jat_
=== e-jat_ is now known as e-jat
hubuntujenda, are you there?21:19
Flannelping hubuntu22:28
hubuntupong Flannel 22:29
hubuntugot any updates on the DIY lP team?22:29
hubuntuI am currently talking with some people @ Canonical to see if we can get some hosting22:30
Flannelhubuntu: we *dont* want canonical hosting22:30
FlannelCanonical hosting is the most horrible thing in the world22:30
hubuntuwhy?22:30
hubuntuwe donæt need no spectacular modules22:31
hubuntuwe will go drupal, wonæt we?22:31
FlannelEh?  Why would we go drupal?22:31
FlannelWhy would we use drupal?22:31
hubuntuwhy shouldn't we go drupal, when most part of the globel community uses that and knows it22:32
FlannelBut even if we were using drupal, we don't want canonical.22:32
hubuntuand we will need the kind of bandwidht Canonical has to offer22:32
hubuntuI do not understand why...22:32
FlannelCanonical's hosting is a headache.  People have waited *years* for simple changes22:32
hubuntuhave you any experience with them yourself?22:33
FlannelWell, bzr is python, so we'll need python at least.  And the website itself will be a) static and then b) mostly simple layers over SQL queries22:33
FlannelI really don't see any reason we'd need a full blown CMS22:33
hubuntufor the DIY site we don't, but think of the future22:33
FlannelNot personally no, but I'm close with people who have22:33
FlannelWhats in the future?22:34
hubuntuwe will eventually find ourselves needing it22:34
hubuntuhonestly I believe tight integration and cooperation with the LP team and Canonical is a must for this project... But I could be wrong22:35
FlannelOh, I also have a pretty good idea re: how to do the repository structure with data/metadata etc.  Now that we've got that list, we can actually start with technical discussions22:35
hubuntuindeed22:35
FlannelWhat do we need integration for?22:35
hubuntuopenID for instance22:35
hubuntuwe will be a testing site for the OpenID LP plugin22:35
Flannelopen ID doesn't require integration.  Assuming we do all the commits via BZR, we just pass on the credentials, and don't need to verify them whatever on our own22:36
hubuntuI have at least talked to LP people interested in that22:36
FlannelBut even with launchpad integration, we *dont* want hosting with canonical if we want to have this working before the next LTS comes out22:36
hubuntuindeed, but It is good to help the devs make it easy for other to just load up the plugin and have it integrated to LP right away, right?22:37
Flannelhubuntu: What?22:37
hubuntuthe way I see it: We set this up *somewhere* and have a goal of having a pre-release mid august22:37
hubuntuby that time we will keep working at *somewhere* and start moving what we can to Canonical hosting. I can take care of that22:38
hubuntuonce we see things are working we move the whole thing to Canonical, If we do not come there weæll find a solution22:38
FlannelIf you're dead set on canonical hosting, that's fine.  I don't think it's necessary, and I don't think its wise.  But that's just me.22:39
FlannelWell, plus the added benefit of separation from canonical, but thats not technical22:39
hubuntuI can set up that *somwhere* right now22:39
Flanneldevubuntu provides hosting for projects like these, and already hosted the earlier prototype22:40
hubuntuI have a LAMP place, but I cannot overloaded it with bandwidth, so It should have to be restriucted to people in the team22:40
hubuntuthey still do?22:40
FlannelThats what their website claims.  I haven't actually looked into it though22:40
Flannelhttp://www.devubuntu.com/22:40
hubuntushal i apply right now?22:41
FlannelAnd actually, we could host there permanently too.22:41
FlannelNo use applying now as we don't have much/anything to put up22:41
FlannelAnd if we decide on something else later, that'll just be rude to the devubuntu guys22:41
hubuntugiven we don't eat up all their bandwidht... which I doubt will happen in the sort term22:41
hubuntuIt's better to just have them as a mirror anyway22:42
hubuntuand if we set up a basic drupal and the other code we have, we could go from there22:42
hubuntusorry my English is really bad tonight---22:42
FlannelAgain, I don't think drupal is the way to go, since we'll spend more time hacking our code to work inside of drupal than actually writing it22:43
FlannelIn a nutshell, what Im going to propose is you have a metafile for each item (an item could be multiple files) and that file just points to the data files (which also works for multiple languages, etc).  And then the webserver will keep its DB updated by examining the diffs of each commit (or batches of commits)22:44
Flanneland that'll keep load down, we don't need to sync each time, just update the DB with the changes22:44
FlannelIts nothing fancy, but the best schemes rarely are22:44
hubuntuyou are thinking of using LP for the version tracking and translations right?22:45
FlannelAnd I *think* (as far as its mapped in my head) we just need three tables.22:45
Flannelnot LP, bzr22:45
hubuntuhosted  @ LP22:45
hubuntuor *somewhere*22:45
FlannelWell, bzr isn't really "hosted" any particular place, but yes, using the LP repo22:46
hubuntuI know is a DVCS22:46
hubuntuokok,plese keep on22:46
FlannelWell, that' more or less it ;)  Its fairly straight forward.22:46
FlannelWe don't actually need the diffs themselves, just a listingof files/fields that were changed22:47
FlannelI mean, we could if we wanted, but that'd be a lot of overhead for very little gain22:47
FlannelI *think* it'd be better to have all the data stored in the DB itself (including files) although not the versioned stuff.  Since LP does go down (or at least, gets bloody slow) and we can remain unaffected that way22:48
Flannel"not the versioned stuff" means not old versions.  Just a current checkout of the bzr branch, basically (in DB form)22:49
Flannelcurrent mirror, I suppose is a better way of phrasing i22:49
Flannelt22:49
hubuntuI understood ;)22:50
hubuntuok, you have a very good idea of this22:50
hubuntuand I think you should write the spec22:50
hubuntucan you do it on the wiki or can you give it to me so I can?22:50
FlannelI was planning on doing a proper proposal/writeup thing and email it to the list.  But I could put it on the wiki too, yeah.22:51
hubuntuyo may as well send an email to the list with your ideas, but let's try to keep the discussion wikified so we can *see* the whole thing in one,organized place22:51
hubuntuyeah, we do pretty much agree22:51
hubuntu:)22:51
Flannelwell, the mailing list does have an archive, and it allows you to see actual conversations, instead of just the final product22:52
hubuntuI will send an update. I am going to send the e-mail to Canonical with a copyu to the list and ask the devubuntu guys for hosting too22:52
FlannelSo, I'll do the mailing list, and then once we've all discussed (since I'm sure there are some things that could be tweaked/etc) we'll put it up on the wiki22:52
hubuntuI can do a Writeup after your e-mail in the wiki ad invite people to expone their ideas in either way they like ;)22:53
Flannelthe problem with using the wiki for a discussion is that not everyone sees the changes/etc.  Let alone being a pull medium instead of a push medium22:54
FlannelI know I'd never be able to keep up with a discussion on a wiki page, or at least, not except once or twice a day, because I can't always browse the web, but I can check my email all over the place.22:55
FlannelBut, however we end up doing it, I'm sure it'll work out22:58
hubuntudefinitely. You can always subscribe to a wiki page, but it may generate a lot of e-mail at times23:01
FlannelYeah, but thats still not very condusive to a conversation.  no threads, or anything like that (plus the locking issues, etc).  Which is why I think defacto conversation medium in FOSS (if not everywhere) is email23:04
hubuntuFlannel, are you the one always talking about the SU site as a possible whatisubuntu site?23:04
Flannelhubuntu: I think its important to include it, yes.  Like the old diagram had it laid out.  I'd like a "spreadubuntu" that's an "about" site, with a DIY site underneath (diy.spreadubuntu.com, for instance).23:05
hubuntuI agree with you Flannel. I just want people to realize that writing an e-mail is not always eneough. One has to make specs, blueprints and organize their thoughts ina way that is actually implementable23:05
FlannelI think it will serve our purposes much better.23:05
Flannelhubuntu: No, Of course not.  But email is the proper place for conversation, with (semi)permanent things elsewhere.23:05
hubuntucan you please join me in #ubuntu-website to discuss that "about ubuntu" a little further?23:05
FlannelThere's a *lot* of people out there that still don't know what Ubuntu is all about23:05
hubuntuI know23:06
Flannelhubuntu: The ubuntu-website project doesn't cover this.  That's for ... well, all the official ubuntu websites.23:06
hubuntuI meet daily Linux people (like in RHEL4 users) that donæt know about Ubuntu23:06
hubuntunot to say windows/mac users23:06
FlannelI'm not talking about Linux users, but people who really do need to be explained what Linux/etc is.23:07
Flannelhubuntu: I know in one email (or I think it was you), you said that ubuntu.com should be that.  But Ubuntu.com *cant* reach that level of specificity.  AS it has to cater to *everyone*, includingdevelopers, community teams, etc.  Has to provide development announcements, release notes, etc.23:08
FlannelI just think before we go barging into putting it at "spreadubuntu.com" we should pause and think (which we've done) and put it at diy.spreadubuntu.com, because we see the bigger picture.23:26
FlannelDefinately main objective, although doesn't necessarily have to be first priority, since we don't have to work on just one project (since we have plenty of people able to write up text who probably would be less helpful in coding the diy site)23:26
Flannelhooray for multitasking23:27
Flanneland thats actually spot on with what we can do, people who can/want to code can work on the code/functionality, and then the people who like to write (and may not be able to code) can work on that23:28
hubuntuand people like me (who like to see code, but not writing it) can do whatever they find suitable23:28
Flannelhubuntu: but yeah, I'll definately write all this up.  But right now I think its time for lunch.23:29
FlannelI am glad I finally caught you on though.  Glad to discuss these things with you finally.23:29
hubuntusame here23:30
hubuntuI think Iæm gonna go for a smoke , write an email and get to sleep23:30

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