| jkary | Hi there! I am trying to follow the instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto to generate a debdiff for a patch. I am having troubles testing the fix. I can't seem to get the patched source to load into the base.tgz. | 01:11 |
|---|---|---|
| jkary | I've tried the following commands: sudo pbuilder build apt_0.7.9ubuntu18.dsc after generating the dsc file using dch however when I do pbuilder --login I can only see apt_0.7.9ubuntu17. I am confused... Is there somewhere where I can verify what version is being loaded? | 01:15 |
| Nafallo | jkary: why would it get installed and saved into your base.tgz? | 01:19 |
| RAOF | jkary: Why are you using pbuilder --login? Are you trying to _test_ your newly built package in the pbuilder chroot? | 01:19 |
| jkary | I am not positive it is saved in base.tgz. The howto leaves me with that impression. | 01:34 |
| jkary | I am trying to test the patch in pbuilder... I am not sure I am doing this correctly as this is my first try at using pbuilder. | 01:35 |
| === persia_ is now known as persia | ||
| === greg_g is now known as greg-g | ||
| ZippyP | Need some help please with re-installing (nvidia-gtx-new) drivers. Envy does not work due to error in removal of old drivers and screwed the system up. now only 800x600 available and can't reinstall original driver | 05:57 |
| ZippyP | Thanks | 05:57 |
| persia | ZippyP: This isn't really a help channel. Have you already tried #ubuntu and questions.launchpad.net? | 06:01 |
| ZippyP | <Persia> I figured that I had two Morons give me false info which put me in this position. So I have been hitting all the IRCs | 06:03 |
| ZippyP | Sorry. | 06:04 |
| persia | ZippyP: Be careful of that: hitting too many channels can raise the ire of the IRC operators. answers.launchpad.net is likely your best bet for support. | 06:04 |
| ZippyP | <Persia> Thanks Both of the two idiots gave me the wrong info and then signed out. Real nice. I'll check the link. Thanks again | 06:06 |
| persia | ZippyP: Good luck. If you discover that this is due to a misbehaviour on the part of some package, please file a bug with the details of how to get into your current situation, and we'll try to make sure it gets the attention of the developers who may fix it. | 06:07 |
| ZippyP | It was Envy that made the mess out of the video res. It errored out during the removal and install of the new drivers which left me with 800x600 | 06:09 |
| bliZZardz | ZippyP : Always check at Launchpad before asking the channel. Many of the bugs are known with probably patches. You may always revert to IRC for further directions - and prefer #ubuntu for bug direction. | 06:09 |
| persia | bliZZardz: #ubuntu for bug direction? Why? | 06:10 |
| bliZZardz | persia : as in, as a first line of support | 06:10 |
| bliZZardz | persia : isnt this channel for bug reporting bugs and triaging? | 06:10 |
| persia | For support, I think #ubuntu is helpful. For bug tracking and coordination, I think here is better. | 06:10 |
| techno_freak | #ubuntu for general support | 06:10 |
| techno_freak | :) | 06:11 |
| persia | Not that we necessarily know workarounds, etc., but that we can help make sure the bug is well described. | 06:11 |
| techno_freak | persia, can you look into bug #38512; there was lot of frustration building up, it was a in-progress bug which became won't fix. was it won't fix from upstream? | 06:14 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 38512 in rhythmbox "Window close should close, not quit" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38512 | 06:14 |
| persia | techno_freak: Looks Won't Fix from upstream to me, and thanks for pointing me at it: that's specifically the behaviour that led to me not using rhythmbox. | 06:20 |
| techno_freak | ahh :) | 06:20 |
| persia | There are patches, so I suspect we're waiting on a decision by the Desktop team to determine whether to patch Rhythmbox to work differently than upstream. Doing so may be bad, as it can cause frustration and dispute, which doesn't help. On the other hand, not patching leaves this bug open. | 06:21 |
| techno_freak | and people will continue to rant and crib that ubuntu devs have deaf ears :( | 06:22 |
| persia | techno_freak: Maybe. As much as I like the idea that closing the window shouldn't also close the application, I'm more against having different distritbutions ship different behaviours, which just leads to extra confusion. It is best discussed upstream, and maybe through reviewing the HIG to ensure that rythmbox, ekiga, gaim, liferea, etc. all have the same behaviour. | 06:26 |
| persia | Once a common behavour is specified, then the solution is clear, and any packages not compliant get bugs. It may be that rhythmbox doesn't have a bug: that's not clear with the current guidelines. | 06:28 |
| techno_freak | hmm | 06:28 |
| RAOF | Much as I'd love a system-wide "Close closes the window, not the application" policy, I think that the reverse is most prevelant. | 06:33 |
| persia | RAOF: For me, it depends on the app. I'd prefer to have the ability to tell applications to nest in the systray (e.g. mail client, XMPP client, music player, etc.) and have them persist. Document-centric apps (e.g. Browser, Text Editor, PDF viewer, etc.) I prefer to have close on exit. As much as I don't like Rhythmbox stopping when I close, I don't like GIMP waiting for me to load the next graphic. | 06:36 |
| techno_freak | Think "close closes the window, not the app" is valid for interactive apps which we tend to use during the entire course of being online, while others we use it for a task and close it down | 06:39 |
| techno_freak | online as in using the desktop | 06:40 |
| persia | techno_freak: Yes, but that varies hugely by usage. I tend to have a browser window open all the time, but don't think it should persist. I also completely shut down any music player when I'm using JACK | 06:41 |
| RAOF | You can see how it would be a bit confusing when the close button has two different behaviours based on a non-obvious condition. | 06:41 |
| persia | Yes, it's confusing. That's why I think it's a HIG bug. We've several apps that work each way, with little commonality between them. | 06:42 |
| techno_freak | agreed | 06:42 |
| bliZZardz | the idea of having the close behaviour(one for system-centric and one for document-centric) sounds perfectly valid. Having an option for this behaviour (provided by the application) can also help the user to choose what he wants. | 07:04 |
| RAOF | Except having a "what would you like 'close' to do" option seems really stupid to me. | 07:07 |
| bliZZardz | RAOF : and why is that Stupid? giving a choice is never detrimental | 07:09 |
| techno_freak | rather "minimize button minimizes to system tray" ;) | 07:09 |
| RAOF | bliZZardz: Giving a choice is _always_ detrimental. | 07:09 |
| RAOF | It's just that sometimes the benefits outweigh the costs. | 07:09 |
| RAOF | It sounds stupid if you rephrase it: "Would you like the close button to close your application?" | 07:10 |
| techno_freak | agreed | 07:10 |
| bliZZardz | rephrased to what techno_freak suggested | 07:10 |
| RAOF | Right. That's much more reasonable. And wouldn't be an option, surely? | 07:11 |
| persia | Right, but "Would you like the close button to close your application" is inherently confusing. | 07:11 |
| persia | There ought be a more sensible way to create a model. | 07:11 |
| bliZZardz | "clicking the Close button does either of : 1) minimizes to the sys tray or 2) closes the application." 1 should preceed 2 for this sentence to make sense. | 07:12 |
| persia | Personally, I think separation of applications makes more sense: having separate tray icons and windows. The tray icon can launch the window, or the window can instantiate the tray icon, but closing either is entirely separate. By default, only the window is present. | 07:12 |
| persia | In the case of a music player, mpd is something like this: there are many front-ends, but they all control the same service. | 07:13 |
| persia | In the case of a communications tool, the various efforts around telepathy seem to be moving toward this goal. | 07:13 |
| persia | That removes the confusion, but still provides a sensible functionality model. | 07:14 |
| bliZZardz | I had seen(eons ago) something similar in Winamp | 07:14 |
| persia | (where "close" means "close" in all cases) | 07:14 |
| lifeless | well | 07:14 |
| lifeless | daemons take up resources | 07:14 |
| lifeless | they should be avoided except where the thing is actually doing something on an ongoing basis | 07:14 |
| persia | lifeless: Yes. The trick is that one needs a clear way to manage user-daemons by user-choice. | 07:15 |
| techno_freak | i think the issue is all about "common behaviour" than about "what close button does". | 07:15 |
| lifeless | persia: or to design to avoid needing/wanting user-daemons | 07:15 |
| persia | For instance, I may (or may not), want to keep listening to music or checking to see if I have new mail, or making an identity available for messages. Should this require an entry in my application switcher? | 07:15 |
| bliZZardz | lifeless : how are user-daemons implemented? Callbacks? | 07:16 |
| techno_freak | I just tested it on Xchat, "Close window" is "Close application" here too ;) | 07:17 |
| RAOF | :) | 07:17 |
| bliZZardz | :) | 07:17 |
| techno_freak | but the tool tip still says "Close Window" while it closes the application :s | 07:18 |
| persia | techno_freak: Which likely makes sense for some use cases (e.g. I'm done with IRC now), but not others (e.g. I'm done with this channel for now). For the latter, pidgin uses the alternate model. | 07:18 |
| techno_freak | persia, which means we have to find a way to make both options possible [1] "am done with it, close the app" and [2] "i just dont want the window on my screen, but i will open it later" | 07:20 |
| techno_freak | persia, i agree with you that it's HIG issue to be taken care | 07:20 |
| persia | techno_freak: Or determine a way to better understand user behaviour so that we can usefully differentiate when people want things. I'm not sure that systray-ness should be an application property, so much as one way a user can interace with some set of functionality. | 07:21 |
| techno_freak | hmm | 07:21 |
| RAOF | techno_freak: In what way is "minimize" not "I don't want the window on my screen, but I'll open it later"? | 07:23 |
| RAOF | Because this seems like the problem may be that minimize doesn't quite do what you want; maybe minimize should be changed. | 07:25 |
| techno_freak | ROAF, i have encountered a lot of people do not want to minimize them to panel, but minimize them to system tray. but i agree on using minimize option for "close the window as of now" | 07:25 |
| RAOF | So, what's different in "minimize to systray" versus "minimize to panel"? | 07:25 |
| bliZZardz | ROAF : in most of the cases : Minimize to systray is got by clicking the close - which again goes against the philosophy of the Close Button. | 07:27 |
| techno_freak | ROAF, may be because system tray offers a cute icon sitting on the top and is more noticable | 07:27 |
| persia | techno_freak: It may be that some applications are abusing the systray to provide an extra bit of graphics, rather than running as a proper user-space daemon (which may open windows, available for closure through the "Close" button). | 07:28 |
| RAOF | Right. So, perhaps this could be a system-wide change? _All_ minimized windows appear on the right of the task panel, as nice little icons? | 07:28 |
| RAOF | Because I'd quite like my notification area to contain _notifications_, thakns :) | 07:29 |
| persia | That's the choice Apple made. Not everyone was happy. Apple make it easier to differentiate was was icon from what was application. | 07:29 |
| === thekorn__ is now known as thekorn | ||
| jeromeg | does someone know if one needs to be in the BugSquad to modify the status/importance/packages of a bug report ? | 10:07 |
| jeromeg | or any registered user can do so ? | 10:08 |
| techno_freak | jeromeg, in bug control | 10:09 |
| techno_freak | jeromeg, for changing importance, status you should be able to | 10:10 |
| thekorn | every registered user can change the status of a bugreport (with some limitations) | 10:10 |
| jeromeg | thekorn, techno_freak: thank you both ! | 10:11 |
| Rocket2DMn | I think you need to be on Bug Control to do some things like mark as Triaged or set to Wishlist | 10:11 |
| jeromeg | Rocket2DMn: yep, I knew that, but I was not sure for the "common" actions | 10:11 |
| techno_freak | jeromeg, if you need any help on changing status or importance, feel free to ask here | 10:11 |
| thekorn | but only members of uubuntu-bugcontrol can change importance | 10:11 |
| jeromeg | techno_freak: I'm in bug control :) | 10:12 |
| techno_freak | jeromeg, ah ok ok :) | 10:12 |
| Rocket2DMn | that sounds right, anybody can set confirmation but not importance | 10:12 |
| jeromeg | but I'm writing a paper about bug triage | 10:12 |
| techno_freak | jeromeg, cool ,let us know when you are done ;) | 10:12 |
| jeromeg | techno_freak: if you can read french, I'll be pleased to ;) | 10:19 |
| techno_freak | jeromeg, oops! :[ | 10:21 |
| === qense is now known as qense|lunch | ||
| === qense|lunch is now known as qense | ||
| kahrytan | Hello | 15:38 |
| kahrytan | I just love finding bugs | 15:39 |
| techno_freak | ok | 15:42 |
| kahrytan | techno_freak, sadly, it was just a simple spelling mistake | 15:43 |
| === qense is now known as qense|away | ||
| === qense|away is now known as qense | ||
| LimCore | Im trying to use recordmydesktop to illustrate a bug in kwalletmanager, but recordmydesktop doesnt work too... | 16:15 |
| qense | did you try istanbul? | 16:18 |
| snap-l | istanbul uses Recordmydesktop | 16:18 |
| LimCore | today I hit 4 serious bugs | 16:19 |
| snap-l | LimCore: How are you using recordmydesktop? | 16:19 |
| * LimCore facepalms | 16:19 | |
| snap-l | Are you just typing in "recordmydesktop", or something else? | 16:19 |
| LimCore | just that, yes | 16:20 |
| LimCore | Im stracing a process, but strace shows _nothing_ | 16:20 |
| LimCore | rafal@limcore:~$ strace -p 13134 | 16:20 |
| LimCore | Process 13134 attached - interrupt to quit | 16:20 |
| LimCore | how to debug that best? | 16:20 |
| snap-l | Are you having trouble playing it back, or does it not ven generate an out.ogg file? | 16:20 |
| LimCore | after a moment it freezes so hard that even ctrl-C doesnt stop it. I have to ctrl-z | 16:21 |
| snap-l | Under KDE or GNOME? | 16:21 |
| LimCore | kde | 16:23 |
| LimCore | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/recordmydesktop/+bug/244261 | 16:23 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 244261 in recordmydesktop "Locking assertion failure libxcb-xlib.so.0 xcb_xlib_unlock" [Undecided,New] | 16:23 |
| snap-l | LimCore: I'm not sure why it's not working for you. I've used it in the past. | 16:24 |
| snap-l | My only suggestion is that your resolution may be too big for recordmydesktop to handle | 16:25 |
| LimCore | me to, stoped working recently, I think in 8.04 | 16:25 |
| LimCore | I used it with the same resolution | 16:25 |
| snap-l | You might want to try recording your bug under XNest. | 16:25 |
| LimCore | other binary drivers though | 16:25 |
| LimCore | btw, 4 bugs... wtf | 16:25 |
| snap-l | NVidia? | 16:25 |
| LimCore | (I hit today 4 bugs that prevent me from working) | 16:25 |
| LimCore | yes, nvidia | 16:25 |
| snap-l | To answer your question re: strace, you attach it to a process, and start using the process. It'll output to stdout. | 16:26 |
| snap-l | I think you can redirect it to a file. | 16:26 |
| snap-l | Sorry, stderr, it seems. | 16:26 |
| LimCore | yeap, -o -f and so on | 16:26 |
| snap-l | I guess I don't follow what your questions are outside of Recordmydesktop | 16:27 |
| LimCore | ok I will debug it more then | 16:28 |
| LimCore | Now, separate topic | 16:28 |
| LimCore | kwalletmanager is an EPIC FAILURE - it lost all my passwords and generally doesn work. | 16:28 |
| LimCore | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeutils/+bug/22400 | 16:28 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 22400 in kdeutils "Wallet manager "losing" wallets" [Medium,Confirmed] | 16:28 |
| snap-l | I don't use KDE or kwalletmanager, I'm afraid. | 16:30 |
| LimCore | loosing all (or many) passwords of the user.. shouldnt that be High priority? Most people use some Kde applications that store passwords | 16:31 |
| snap-l | Are you sure you're having the same issue, though? | 16:32 |
| LimCore | as I written on bottom there | 16:32 |
| snap-l | my sense is it's a separate issue. Is kded crashing on you? | 16:33 |
| LimCore | no | 16:33 |
| snap-l | I'd be surprised if something like this hasn't been addressed in over two years, and several releases. | 16:33 |
| LimCore | worked fine before | 16:34 |
| LimCore | for me | 16:34 |
| Hobbsee | oh, that bug. | 16:34 |
| Hobbsee | LimCore: what do the bugs on bugs.kde.org say about that? | 16:34 |
| Hobbsee | are they moving to fix it there? | 16:35 |
| LimCore | "Until we figure out why kded is crashing (or not starting at all in many cases), I think the bug here is that kwalletmanager fails so quietly." | 16:35 |
| LimCore | kded do not crash for me, but other then that the symptoms are identical. also, restarting kde (which restart kded) often helps for me | 16:35 |
| LimCore | perhaps now kded hangs instead crashing | 16:36 |
| Hobbsee | yes, i read the launchpad bug. i asked about the bugs on bugs.kde.org said about the issue. | 16:39 |
| LimCore | I dont know even is it there | 16:39 |
| Hobbsee | well, perhaps you should look... | 16:40 |
| Hobbsee | seeing as ultimately, they're the ones who fix the code on that section - no one in kubuntu touches that. | 16:40 |
| Hobbsee | and in that sense, it doesn't really matter what the prio on that LP bug is, seeing as the LP bug is not going to get it fixed - it'll be up to the kde developers, and i suspect they'll be going for kde4 now. | 16:41 |
| vadi2 | Where is the proper way to report a broken package in Ubuntu? I filed a report on launchpad a month ago and nobody's looked at it yet (besides another problem who ran into the problem and wanted to report) | 17:19 |
| techno_freak | vadi2, bug number? | 17:20 |
| vadi2 | 236798 | 17:21 |
| techno_freak | bug #236798 | 17:21 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 236798 in python-setuptools "package python-setuptools 0.6c8-0ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/236798 | 17:21 |
| === thekorn_ is now known as thekorn | ||
| primes2h | Hi all. I've tagged some bugs as edgy-close, I need someone to mark them as "Won't fix". | 17:38 |
| primes2h | please | 17:39 |
| primes2h | Who can help me, please? | 17:42 |
| techno_freak | "won't fix" or "invalid" :s | 17:43 |
| primes2h | I already put "invalid". I need to put Won't fix but I can't. | 17:43 |
| primes2h | because I can't | 17:44 |
| primes2h | See here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20080425 | 17:44 |
| techno_freak | primes2h, mark a comment for the same in the bug, those who can will do | 17:44 |
| === bdmurray_ is now known as bdmurray | ||
| === rbs-tito_ is now known as rbs-tito | ||
| === rbs-tito_ is now known as rbs-tito | ||
| bdmurray | thekorn: hello | 18:48 |
| thekorn | bdmurray, hi brian | 18:49 |
| qense | bdmurray: how did you get the list for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20080401 ? | 18:52 |
| bdmurray | qense: I started at https://launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/ | 18:54 |
| qense | thx | 18:54 |
| bdmurray | so then you drill done to a bug tracker like https://launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/debbugs | 18:55 |
| qense | ah, there's more :) | 18:55 |
| bdmurray | Then it's a matter of finding the bugs w/o watches which was quite a mess | 18:55 |
| qense | is there a way of doing that using bughelper? | 18:57 |
| bdmurray | I'll have to look at it again it might be possible | 18:58 |
| bdmurray | Alternatively I should be able to setup a database query | 18:58 |
| qense | ok | 18:58 |
| qense | pedro is organizing some hug days during the summer and I thought it could be good to give each hugday a 'need bug watch' section of their upstream tracker | 18:59 |
| bdmurray | right, I think it would be a good report to have too | 19:00 |
| bdmurray | a kind of unlinked bug watches report | 19:00 |
| qense | yes | 19:00 |
| bdmurray | okay, I'll look at that this week then | 19:01 |
| qense | that would be great :) but I could have a look at it too I suppose | 19:01 |
| qense | if you find the 'thing' you use to do it for that page, please mail me, otherwise I can try it by myself | 19:02 |
| bdmurray | the thing I used for that particular bug day was a mess of bughelper/python-launchpad-bugs opening each and every bug report. I think use a database query is the best idea here. | 19:03 |
| qense | yeah | 19:03 |
| qense | although it would be nice if Launchpad would support such a query with its web interface | 19:04 |
| qense | do you think leonov could do it? | 19:04 |
| qense | I haven't tested it yet, so I'm not aware of its functions | 19:04 |
| bdmurray | again I think it would be too time intensive since it would have to check each of the 7534 debian bugs individually | 19:04 |
| bdmurray | I'd setup some lists like the ones at http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/reports/database/ | 19:05 |
| bdmurray | and they'd be updated daily | 19:05 |
| qense | that would be good | 19:06 |
| qense | a cron script could even update the wiki pages of hug days if that would be useful | 19:06 |
| qense | btw, bdmurray, did you get my email? | 19:18 |
| bdmurray | qense: yes I did, do you recall your old expiration date? | 19:28 |
| qense | I do have the expiration emails in my mail archive, but I'm figuring out atm how to access them without starting evolution | 19:28 |
| qense | I've lost almost all new mails form the last 1.5 days | 19:29 |
| qense | so I don't want to open evolution again as long as it's on automatic recieving | 19:30 |
| qense | I'm now trying to get all my mails back into thunderbird | 19:33 |
| ogra | jut stop your network connection, so it cant recieve | 19:34 |
| ogra | *jut | 19:34 |
| ogra | bah, lost my s | 19:34 |
| qense | the magic super tool every blog seems to love to import emails into thunderbird, mboximport, has server problems atm | 19:35 |
| txwikinger | How can one submit a problem with a archive mirror? | 19:42 |
| qense | bdmurray: the expiration date was 2008-06-19 | 19:43 |
| bdmurray | heh | 19:43 |
| qense | 19:43 | |
| qense | oops, empty rule | 19:44 |
| txwikinger | bdmurray: When will the new rules for importance be in effect? | 19:45 |
| bdmurray | I haven't seen any objections so real soon now? Why do you ask? | 19:46 |
| txwikinger | Well.. I just wondered if I missed something :) | 19:46 |
| bdmurray | txwikinger: no, not yet | 19:46 |
| txwikinger | ok. thanks :) | 19:46 |
| bdmurray | Feel free to use them though | 19:47 |
| txwikinger | ok.. I will | 19:47 |
| txwikinger | bdmurray: Do you know a way how to submit a problem with a archive mirror like bug 243846 ? | 19:48 |
| txwikinger | bug #243846 | 19:48 |
| Pici | The bot is having issues. | 19:48 |
| txwikinger | I am noticing :D | 19:48 |
| txwikinger | https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/243846 | 19:49 |
| bdmurray | maybe browse through https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors ? | 19:51 |
| bdmurray | or contact that site's admin | 19:51 |
| txwikinger | Well. it is the australian ubuntu.com one | 19:53 |
| james_w | txwikinger: there's #ubuntu-mirrors I think | 19:55 |
| bdmurray | txwikinger: you might also try #canonical-sysadmin | 19:57 |
| txwikinger | ok. thanks | 19:58 |
| jonpackard | Hello... I'm interested in testing Intrepid. I have it installed in Virtualbox and it's looking good so far. I get a kernel panic on boot sometimes but resetting once or twice usually fixes it. =) | 20:35 |
| === Hurtz_ is now known as Hurtz | ||
| pwnguin | is it common practice for core developers to subscribe to packages they upload? | 22:02 |
| pwnguin | subscribe to bugmail, that is | 22:03 |
| RAOF | pwnguin: I don't believe so, no. | 22:12 |
| pwnguin | im starting to believe the ubuntu philosophy is upload first, let someone else deal with the consequences later =( | 22:28 |
| pwnguin | granted, a lot of bugs filed need some ... hugging | 22:30 |
| pwnguin | or maybe even tough love | 22:30 |
| pwnguin | but it seems like a hole in the process when people have to start making lists of "bugs you should care about" for developers | 22:30 |
| bdmurray | a large part of that is due to the volume of the bug reports that we receive relative to the quantity of developers | 22:31 |
| RAOF | It's meant to be "everyone's responsible for everything", which sometimes means noone feels sufficiently responsible. | 22:32 |
| pwnguin | do you really think the kernel team feels reponsible for the openSSL flaw? | 22:32 |
| pwnguin | i guess not | 22:32 |
| * pwnguin finishes reading | 22:32 | |
| pwnguin | bdmurray: if the problem is a matter of developer time, shouldn't there be a freeze on MIR? | 22:33 |
| bdmurray | that is one idea | 22:36 |
| === gnomefre1k is now known as gnomefreak | ||
| pwnguin | at any rate, I suspect an everyone does everything is equal parts liberating and inefficient | 22:39 |
| pwnguin | well, i should really save this rant for an essay, rather than waste everyone's time on incomplete thoughts | 22:40 |
| LaserJock | pwnguin: the same problem exists in Universe so limiting MIRs doesn't seem to solve anything | 22:53 |
| pwnguin | well, I suscribe to the packages i care about | 22:53 |
| pwnguin | cuz lord knows nobody else does | 22:53 |
| LaserJock | pwnguin: Ubuntu fundamentally doesn't do individual package maintainers | 23:02 |
| LaserJock | so developers do subscribe to packages they care about | 23:03 |
| LaserJock | but that is certainly not the same set of packages as the ones they upload | 23:03 |
| LaserJock | i.e. I only really care about say 4 packages, but I've upload probably over 50 | 23:03 |
| pwnguin | well one case that's aggrevating me is where the developer clearly forked the package from debian | 23:04 |
| RAOF | With any obvious reason? (And, presumably, this is in main, right?) | 23:05 |
| pwnguin | well, the obvious reason is because Dell asked nicely | 23:05 |
| RAOF | What package is this? | 23:06 |
| pwnguin | thinkfinger | 23:06 |
| LaserJock | so your complaint is that somebody has made significant and long-term changes in Ubuntu but isn't subscribed to the pacakge? | 23:07 |
| LaserJock | *package | 23:07 |
| pwnguin | im reluctant to commit to the word complaint or any decription of how i feel about what's happened, but for the moment that seems like an accurate description | 23:08 |
| LaserJock | ok fine | 23:09 |
| LaserJock | and that seems fairly reasonable | 23:09 |
| RAOF | Indeed. | 23:09 |
| pwnguin | id rather not get into a dispute resolution about it | 23:10 |
| pwnguin | given that the person in question's a tech board member and all | 23:10 |
| LaserJock | I don't think there's much of a dispute | 23:10 |
| RAOF | It sounds like you're proposing a piece of new policy, actually. | 23:10 |
| LaserJock | well yeah, that's where they me dispute ;-) | 23:11 |
| pwnguin | RAOF: such a thing should be done with care and tact | 23:11 |
| LaserJock | I don't know how you can make it policy | 23:11 |
| LaserJock | because we don't have individual maintainership | 23:11 |
| pwnguin | we do have bug suscriptions in LP | 23:11 |
| LaserJock | so what line would I have to cross before I had to subscribe to a package? | 23:11 |
| LaserJock | do have to have uploaded the same package twice, or do I need to make > 100KB divergence, or ? | 23:12 |
| RAOF | LaserJock: Yeah, I'm not sure there's a clear line. | 23:12 |
| pwnguin | how about rebase the package on an svn commit | 23:12 |
| LaserJock | I don't see a criteria for when a developer should subscribe to a package | 23:12 |
| LaserJock | pwnguin: that's a matter for the individual developer I think | 23:13 |
| RAOF | "When I don't think the Debian package should be merged next time around" | 23:13 |
| pwnguin | LaserJock: once you upload it, it just became Ubuntu's problem, no? | 23:13 |
| LaserJock | pwnguin: yes, of course | 23:13 |
| LaserJock | pwnguin: the team's problem | 23:13 |
| LaserJock | which is why we should have an element of peer review, since I may have to fix what somebody else messed up | 23:14 |
| LaserJock | so I feel it's ok to tell somebody, "heah, for the benefit of all of us maybe you should subscribe to that package if you're not going to sync up" | 23:15 |
| pwnguin | indeed. in the case of thinkfinger, i have no clue what | 23:15 |
| pwnguin | doh | 23:15 |
| LaserJock | but I don't see how we can make any real blanket policy on these things | 23:15 |
| LaserJock | Scott doesn't "own" that package anymore than I do really | 23:16 |
| pwnguin | subscriptions aren't ownership | 23:17 |
| pwnguin | they're just due dilligence ;) | 23:17 |
| LaserJock | well, not really | 23:18 |
| LaserJock | it depends on the situation | 23:18 |
| LaserJock | if you think a bug should be particularly addressed by Scott I guess you could subscribe him | 23:19 |
| LaserJock | but I'm not subscribed to any packages, I don't see a particular need | 23:19 |
| LaserJock | I find out other ways besides direct subscription | 23:20 |
| pwnguin | at the moment, people are filing documentation bugs, and i have no idea how he changed it =/ | 23:25 |
| pwnguin | im currenly on line 1322 of a 10k line .diff.gz | 23:25 |
| pwnguin | scratch that, 20k | 23:26 |
| pwnguin | i hope bzr everywhere makes this better somehow | 23:27 |
| LaserJock | pwnguin: heh, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't hold my breath | 23:33 |
| calc | yipee, we got OOo not installing where it isn't wanted now :) | 23:52 |
| DanielEads | If I filed a bug using apport, how do I go about finding it on launchpad? It's not showing up attached to my username | 23:56 |
| gnomefreak | DanielEads: you can get it from your LP page under bugs than click bugs i filed | 23:58 |
| greg-g | DanielEads: it should open a page in your default browswer to finish submitting it (ie: is it one of these bugs already reported? If not, describe what happened here) then it will create the bug, but not before that | 23:58 |
| gnomefreak | DanielEads: you can search LP bugs for the summary you used/apport used | 23:58 |
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