[00:15] hi gnomefreak [00:15] beDrung: hi was just talking about you :) [00:15] beDrung: whats up with licenses on the 2 extensions? [00:16] i didnt know you talked to asac so im lost on it i grabbed it but only got first block of license in the md5.js [00:17] http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/pwdhash-0806221510/pwdhash-1.5/debian/copyright [00:17] all files have the same licence, except md5.js [00:18] i am in contact with the upstream author. he will add a licence file to the source package. he said, that the package uses bsd as licence. [00:19] beDrung: im guessing its a clause 2 license? [00:19] clause 3 licence (e.g. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/pwdhash-0806221510/pwdhash-1.5/chrome/stanford-pwdhash/content/domain-extractor.js ) [00:20] beDrung: ah perfect [00:20] and md5.js says: * Distributed under the BSD License [00:20] waiting on upstream to add the files? [00:20] beDrung: yeah i know it didnt tell me anything i wanted to know [00:22] yes, he wrote june, 26 that he will do it. so i am waiting. [00:22] beDrung: ok thanks for update :) [00:22] and for htmlvalidator: someone should check all files for the licence. [00:25] if i remember correct opensp uses bsd licence and tidy uses mit [00:57] beDrung: ok i will ask someone to look into it or i will when i get caught up [00:57] * gnomefreak gone good night === persia_ is now known as persia [03:03] is it no longer required having an fstab entry for ones cdrom/dvdrom drive? [03:07] mcquaid: The presence or absence of such an entry will affect behaviour of the system. Not having an entry is current recommended. [03:08] ok thx. since going to hardy from gutsy i can't successfully burn a data dvd. failed in brasero, gnomebaker and k3b. trying to figure it out [03:08] i currently have an entry, will remove it. but i find it a stretch thinking that could cause burning issues, but i'm not sure [03:09] i asked about this when i first upgraded to gutsy, that there should be a way to generate a new fstab post install [03:15] persia: HAL handles it automagically? [03:22] StevenK: Well, HAL provides the notification that media is available. I believe that then is available over dbus, and the relevant system (gnome-volume-manager for GNOME) then performs a user-mount on the device in a new directory in /media. [03:22] persia: Much like it does for USB keys and the like. [03:22] * persia is fuzzy on the details, as this was last investigated in Edgy or so [03:22] StevenK: Exactly the same mechanism. [03:24] This also works for any fixed device not in a blacklist that happens to be present in the system. If a user connects a new hard drive to the SATA bus, and it is formatted with an acceptable filesystem, it will be mounted in /media at next boot. [03:24] s/boot/login [03:26] I think there is some permissions layer, due to a complaint that anyone logging in automatically got access to NTFS/HFS+ drives in dual-boot configurations, but don't remember the details. [03:27] (and modern HFS+ is especially annoying, as it presents UNIX userids, etc. which then further confuse permissioning if not aligned) [03:28] persia: You can have exactly the same problem with ext3 on a USB key, or NFS. [03:29] StevenK: Well, for NFS I rarely consider it a "problem", but yes, any UNIX FS that gets pulled by the /media mounting gets confusing. It seems optimised for FAT, which might be right in some cases, but isn't reliably always correct. [03:30] (it's actually Nautilus which does volume mounting in GNOME now) [03:31] So what does gnome-volume-manager do? [03:32] Any device that isn't a volume, IIRC. [03:33] Right. All the more reason for programs to have names that are completely unrelated to function. This wouldn't be confusing it this was gnome-frobnicator. [03:33] s/it this/if it/ [03:34] * StevenK chuckles [03:39] if i remove the fstab entry for my cdrom, would it stil lbe accessible outside gnome, like say in icewm? [03:41] persia: It did do volumes until Hardy, I believe. [03:41] wgrant: It did. I'm just amused, as between Nautilus and the HID layer, there aren't a lot of devices left to be handled by g-v-m. [03:42] System->Preferences->Removable Drives and Media shows a few. [03:42] They're neither removable drives nor media, though. [03:46] Well, digital cameras might be considered that: many can be represented as volumes. Input devices is sadly lacking in several classes of device (joysticks, MIDI, 6D CAD controllers, "gaming" pads, sensors, etc.), and this panel doesn't actually have any influence over the activation. PDAs are just an odd inclusion, and we've a whole separate Printer system. Oh well. [03:47] Maybe that can go away entirely for intrepid :) [03:47] persia: Maybe GNOME are hoping printers will just quietly go away :-P [03:48] StevenK: I guess, although printers are the part of that which I'm least likely to actually use (my printer has a parallel port). [03:51] I prefer gizmod for input devices, use usbnet for PDAs, and would expect scanners and cameras to be accessible from within relevant applications, rather than taking action on device detection (would I have to close the scanning app every login if I had a scanner attached to the workstation?) [03:58] * StevenK sighs at bzr merge [04:03] StevenK: ? [04:03] lifeless: It is moving directories around, shifting files around and generally making a mess of my working tree [04:04] StevenK: arbitrarily, or because whomever you are merging from did that? [04:04] lifeless: Because it thinks there are conflicts [04:04] I can't find said conflicts, or why it thinks they do ... [04:05] StevenK: what type of conflicts is it claimin [04:05] Text conflicts [04:05] StevenK: text conflicts ondirectories? [04:05] * StevenK manages to crowbar the working directory back into a state that looks okay [04:06] lifeless: I can point you at the two repositories, and tell you the merge command I ran, if that would help explain it? [04:06] StevenK: yes, though if they are huge I'd rather see you pastebin the relevant stuff [04:07] StevenK: anytime a merge is bad, if you think bzr should have been able to do better (if you can't understand teh conflicts and why) - please see #bzr immediately [04:07] feedback is valuable [04:07] lifeless: The repos are on LP and are small [06:57] Hmm, Intrepid Alpha 1 amd 64 doesn't log into gnome for me in vmware [06:57] As a fresh install [07:16] * TheMuso wipes sweat from his forehad after finally uploading initramfs-tools merge for intrepid. That was a big one. [07:17] * RAOF gives props to TheMuso for working on the bombs :) [07:17] RAOF: If you track intrepid-changes, I think you'll see what I mean. [07:18] Not yet. I track via the rss feed, and it's not updated for me yet. [07:18] RAOF: Right. [07:19] It'll be another minute until it's accepted. [07:21] there is a rss feed of -changes? [07:21] Unofficially. [07:26] TheMuso: Nasty merge, indeed! [07:27] TheMuso: *Daaamn* [07:28] * wgrant thinks that TheMuso needs to now file a few dozen bugs in Debian to merge the changes. [07:28] That would be even more fun. [07:28] wgrant: Thats the plan, but tomorrow. My head is in no shape for complex thought patterns atm. [07:30] is there any way to use any chroot environmet or something to build packages in other architectures? [07:31] nxvl: You would have to set up a cross-compiler. [07:31] i need to fix a problem on amd64 and i only have an i386 machine [07:31] That's more difficult :) [07:31] TheMuso: did you know if there is a wiki page about that? [07:31] nxvl: No, I am not aware of such a page. [07:31] Actually, you could probably do some virtualisation magic. Wasn't there a qemu frontendything? [07:32] RAOF: virt-manager [07:32] i'm using ppa, but it's kind of slow, and no the best way to do it [07:32] Well, that'd work. I actually meant a qemu frontend around pbuilder. [07:32] qemu-x86-64-buildpackage [07:32] TheMuso: "Fire bad, tree pretty" ? [07:33] (May or may not exist) [07:33] nxvl: Probably best to convince somebody else to do it. [07:33] StevenK: ?? [07:33] Or get access to an amd64 machine. [07:33] TheMuso: It's a Buffy quote. [07:33] StevenK: oh. [07:33] Right. I've been known to hand out access to my amd64 box. [07:34] TheMuso: Giles asks Buffy a complex question after a big-bad fight and her response was "My thought patterns are only capable of 'Fire bad, tree pretty'" [07:34] StevenK: hahaha right. [07:34] also i have another problem [07:35] i don't know why the build process is deleting a directory called "build" which i don't know why ships with upstream release [07:35] and it's making my package fail to build twice in a row [08:05] is there any way to search for packages that depends on others? [08:05] nxvl, you can list reverse dependencies if thats what you mean [08:05] nxvl: apt-cache rdepends covers the simple case. debcheck has more complex cases. [08:07] * nxvl HUGS cody-somerville and persia [08:07] :) [08:08] cody-somerville: mm [08:08] err [08:08] persia: it doesn't work [08:08] nxvl: Please supply a referent for "it". [08:08] nxvl, you'll need to be a bit more descriptive then that :) [08:08] i'm trying to find packages that depend on chrpath to use them as examples [08:08] if you like guis, synaptic can do it too in its filters (and search) [08:08] mvo! [08:08] * mvo waves [08:09] Ah. You want reverse build-depends. For that you need grep-dctrl. [08:09] mvo: i have a bug for you. [08:09] mvo: so you might want to run away, instead of waving. [08:09] * mvo considers this [08:12] nxvl: I think it's `grep-dctrl -FBuild-Depends chrpath -sPackage /var/lib/apt/lists/*intrepid_*_source_Sources [08:12] ` [08:15] persia: there is not apt way to do it? [08:16] persia: someone point me to some command some days ago but i didn't write it down, and it's not on my history [08:16] :( [08:16] nxvl: BNot for build dependencies. You could perhaps add something to apt-cache or synaptic, if you wanted. [08:18] i will se [08:19] TheMuso: how's alsa-lib coming? [08:20] TheMuso: I noticed some feedback suggesting there were some problems with the repo you'd set up, are those ironed out? [08:22] asac: have you seen my follow-up to bug #210481? Do you or another member of the mozilla team have time to fix that this week? [08:22] Launchpad bug 210481 in firefox "gutsy->hardy upgrade problem" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210481 [08:25] mvo, when do you guys first start uploading gnome to Intrepid? [08:25] mvo, as soon as the first alpha or beta is available or just the release candidates? [08:29] cody-somerville: uploading of the current devel version of gnome has already started, we do it as soon as gnome releases tarballs [08:29] cody-somerville: seb128 is the lead for this effort and usually a new tarball release goes very quickly into our archive as well === thekorn__ is now known as thekorn [08:30] Although I know this may be a question you can't answer, do you think that would be a good approach for Xubuntu too? [08:30] Xfce4 just moved to a time-based release schedule [08:30] cody-somerville: this is great for testers, they get the new unstable gnome very quickly and easily [08:30] * cody-somerville nods. [08:30] Well, upstream is worried about or modifications [08:31] In the past, they have caused problems for them. [08:31] cody-somerville: it depends a bit on the xfce upstream community and the xubuntu community [08:31] I think its great if you have man-power (two-three decidated people) making regular updates and feed bugreports back to upstream [08:31] (that is what the gnome team is doing, also more people :) [08:32] and it also depends if xfce upstream has a reliable release process [08:32] that is aligned with our releases dates somewhat [08:32] They're releasing in september [08:32] we're releasing in October I believe [08:32] so I think it'll work [08:33] but if that is the case, then it can be a great resource for upstream for additional testers (just running it from the livecd for people who are scared of running intrepid entirely) [08:33] * mvo nods [08:33] * cody-somerville nods. [08:33] you mentioned upstream might be concerned about it earlier? [08:34] maybe its a matter of explaining that its more of a help than a burden because of better feedback [08:34] (we do the same for compiz, upload git snapshots into the archive early and upstream likes that a lot) [08:35] * cody-somerville nods. [08:36] mvo: well, he mentioned that distro changes were an issue [08:37] not sure what sort of changes they are doing though and why that's an issue [08:37] hm, those should be discussed with uptream again I guess - what kinds of changes are we talking about? [08:37] but we try to have a low delta for GNOME [08:37] It might have been more to do with Xfce4 upstream not getting along well with Jani Monoses [08:37] Which is a shame : ( [08:38] What was happening was that Xubuntu was shipping SVN with patches, lol [08:39] And as you know, once a release becomes stable we don't just randomly update it with svn snapshots [08:39] cody-somerville: in keeping with tradition, 8.10 will definitely be released in the 10th month of the year; however, in the event of unforeseen setbacks I'm prepared to switch to the pre-Julian Roman calendar [08:40] good morning [08:40] slangasek: Please don't: it gets very close to end-of-year stuff, and hurts the immediate blush of SRUs. [08:41] slangasek: Bwahaha [08:41] persia: er, I hope you don't mean to say you were taking me seriously :) [08:42] * cody-somerville has a number of SRUs to do sadly. [08:42] I wish I had been able to get them done in time for .1 but work ate up all my time with getting our product ready for the release of the new iPhone [08:42] slangasek: Well, there was 6.06, so I'm yet convinced it's impossible to make such a switch, and you've a better rationale than some. === enrico_ is now known as enrico [08:47] hello dholbach [08:47] hi seb128 [08:50] hey dholbach! [08:52] hiya mvo [08:53] hello mvo [08:53] hey seb128! [09:02] morning [09:03] moin emgent [09:13] heya halex [09:37] slangasek: when is 8.04.1 release date? [09:37] asac: Thursday [09:37] how goes the certification side of things? [09:38] cr3 gave us a clean bill of health, with the exception of one wireless issue which was not a regression vs. 8.04 and remains unresolved [09:38] oh, good news [09:39] that was before the last l-r-m change, so I'll ask him today for another run === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [09:51] slangasek: for 210481 i can include the fix in the security upload that is about to go out [09:51] asac: a security upload for ff2? [09:51] slangasek: yes. on Wed is target date [09:52] thekorn: can we distinguish between types of descriptions in py-lp-bugs? [09:52] slangasek: all the bits are loaded ... e..g build and ready to be released, but since ffox 2 is in universe I could reupload it (after checking with jdstrand that the builders have cycles atm) [09:53] asac: ok, that'd be swell :) [09:54] dholbach: sorry, but which types of descriptions do you mean? [09:55] erm sorry [09:55] thekorn: SUBscriptions :) [09:56] dholbach: ok, that's possible but only in the html mode [09:57] let me find an example [09:57] thanks a lot Markus [09:58] <\sh> direct_list=self.bugReport.get_subscriptions_category("directly") [09:58] <\sh> via_duplicates=self.bugReport.get_subscriptions_category("duplicates") [09:58] <\sh> also_notified=self.bugReport.get_subscriptions_category("notified") [09:58] <\sh> you mean those subscriptions, right? [09:58] ah perfect [09:58] thanks \sh [09:59] <\sh> dholbach: welcome [10:01] * thekorn is too slooow again [10:01] <\sh> thekorn: na...I just have eclipse open with the source ;) [10:10] slangasek: we currently have http://paste.ubuntu.com/23904/ ... i guess that we have to bump that on every security update :/ [10:11] or start to use funny versions for ffox updates [10:11] Why does it need to conflict with a lower version of itself? [10:11] wgrant: Package: firefox-2 [10:12] Why does it need to be so strict, even so? [10:12] wgrant: good point [10:12] What is its purpose? [10:13] Wouldn't it help force the upgrade case if someone had the ancient package around? [10:13] asac: hmm? surely you should just update it once, to (<< $minimal_hardy_version) ? [10:13] dholbach: you sponsored the pam-pgsql upload for hardy, would you be interested in sponsoring my fakesync for intrepid ? Fixes a security hole. [10:13] (firefox -> firefox-2) [10:13] slangasek: guess << 3 [10:13] slangasek: That's what I thought. [10:14] asac: I think so, yes. [10:14] k. will do that then [10:51] Koon: did I? is your fakesync in the sponsoring queue? [10:53] dholbach: I just subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors, following persia's advice. [10:54] ok great [10:54] I'll triage the quee later on [10:54] queue [10:54] dholbach: thx [11:20] siretart, hmm, your rss-glx upload wil break al screensavers that have sound (not thatthis is a bad thing, but expect some bug fallout as last uploader) [11:20] (people like to complain about such stuff) [11:22] ogra: Aren't there already none of those as a result of bug #21507 ? [11:22] Launchpad bug 21507 in rss-glx "Disturbing sounds in Skyrocket screensaver" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21507 [11:23] there are mre than skyrockat afaik and this one just ha the volume set to zero, you can easily swithc it back on [11:23] *skyrocket [11:26] persia, i dont really care (especially since my name isnt the last uploader here :) and i gave screensavers to tedg quite a while ago ... ) but there are many people ot there that use xscreensaver for example where you have the opportunity to adjust volume of a single screensaver, they will surely open bugs for that === Lamego_ is now known as joaopinto [11:30] ogra: are you serious with people complaining that their screensaver won't make any noise anymore? [11:30] that is a so unbelievable silly feature to me that I have to ask this question [11:31] siretart, the bug abouve definately had the same (less funny though) in the opposite direction, yes :) [11:31] take over screensavers for a release, you will encounter the funniest bugreports :) [11:32] siretart, i totally agree with you about the sillyness, that was just a warning that people will surely notice it and complain [11:32] ogra: I think having openal in universe is way more desireable than having screensavers making silly noises [11:32] and I'm willing to argue about this in front of the TB [11:33] is rss-glx realy the only one to use it ? i would have expected some sdl games etc to use it too [11:33] no need to involve the TB here unless the bugs get to tricky :) [11:34] ogra: AFAIK all those packages are in universe. if you happen to notice another package in main using openal, please notify me [11:35] will do so, thanks for caring for the breakage [11:35] ogra: SDL games use SDL sound. SDL sound can use several backends, openal included. I believe it uses ALSA by default. [11:35] (and for tagging your name on the screensavers *G*) [11:38] and since there is no libsdl1.2debian-openal, sdl is not a problem here [11:39] ogra: you need openal for games that feature *spacial* sound. having a screensaver with *spacial* sound supported is so unbelievably silly to my mind that I cannot express it [11:39] well, if you want to hear the rockets flying over your head .... [11:39] :) [11:40] exactly [11:40] ogra: And at angles, so you hear them getting louder, and in the right direction? Isn't it easier to code it to just swoop? Anyway, aren't screen savers supposed to avoid CRT burn-in, while letting your computer sleep? [11:41] woah [11:41] http://parker1.co.uk/eternity/ [11:41] we should urgently get these in [11:41] A lot of people use them because they look pretty :) [11:41] * ogra poders for tedg to wake up [11:42] persia seems to agree with me :) [11:42] persia, they were when CRTs showed green text ... today they are to support global warming :) [11:43] ogra: I had more burn-in on polychromatic CRTs than on monochromatic ones. I have one CRT that can't get bright enough to use anymore, due to phosphor loss. [11:44] ogra: do they feature spacial sound? ;) [11:44] siretart: rss-glx does [11:44] siretart, patches accepted, i'm sure :) [11:44] siretart: though it imho should play mp3/ogg instead *g* [11:45] asac: mmm, I should probably ask here for realtime feedback - what are your plans for bug #230209? [11:45] Launchpad bug 230209 in thunderbird-locales "upgrade thunderbird locales for 2.0.0.x and include new upstream translations" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230209 [11:45] asac: if you think this still belongs in 8.04.1, I need it in the archive today [11:46] sistpoty|work: not anymore, I disabled openal in rss-glx in the last upload [11:47] ogra: /me runs away. screeming [11:47] heh [11:47] heh === elky is now known as elkbuntu [11:48] benc: I’m sure you’ve already thought of what i’m saying, but here goes anyway: there probably should be a package that contains a /etc/kernel/prerm.d script that generates a last-good-boot from the current running system if one doesn’t exist, and the version of apt that removes the NeverAutoRemove rules from /e/a/a/01autoremove probably should depend on that package, in order to make sure a last-good-boot exists before any kernels are autoremoved in ... [11:48] ... case the user happens to be running an earlier kernel because the newest one doesn’t boot for her. [11:49] slangasek: not needed imo. I will talk to ArneGoetje about including it in the usual language pack update batch [11:49] asac: ok, unmilestoning, thanks [11:51] slangasek: i dropped a comment too :) [12:00] ScottK, bug 235135, that fix wont work generally and for everyone... if you use asound-plugins instead of libflashsupport while pulseaudio is running (and claiming the device) on a non dmix capable soundcard, you wont have any sound from flash at all [12:00] Launchpad bug 235135 in flashplugin-nonfree "[MASTER] Please backport flashplugin-nonfree version 10 beta and asound-plugins from Intrepid so we can drop libflashsupport and the crashes it causes" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/235135 [12:23] hi all [12:27] I'm going to test 8.04.1 candidate images, maybe someone knows - are there any important bugs, which I should test with Ubuntu 8.04.1 candidate from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/hardy/ ? [12:28] ... [12:29] er... [12:29] ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE === tkamppeter__ is now known as tkamppeter [12:31] how did that even happen? [12:33] mantiena: Have you checked out #ubuntu-testing ? They might be able to point you in the right direction. [12:33] ln-: guh, unicode allows for all sorts of horror. Try pasting a zillion combining characters with nothing to combine to sometime. irssi in screen goes completely spare [12:37] Pici: I already asked this question at ubuntu-testing, but no answer :( in any case - downloading takes about 3 hours, so, I have some time to get an answer :) [12:44] ogra: I'm looking for a good recommendation on how to approach that bug. [12:45] if we knew one hadry wouldnt suck so much with flash :) [12:46] the proper solution would be to have libflashsupport fixed, but that requires internal knowledge of flash code ... [12:48] pulse expects to hog the device completely with nothing interfering .... but flash with pulse needs libflashsupport ... all other solutions wil end up with concurret access to the sound device which works or doesnt depending on the dmix capability of your driver/card === ara is now known as ara_lunch [12:50] OK. So maybe good is the wrong word. [12:50] its kind of gambling to rely on dmix here but probably the only solution, i just wanted to point out that you wont fix it for everyone with either solution ... (one opportunity would be to just hide the crash through using nspluginwrapper in 32bit like fedora does, but thats no oportunity for hardy and also doesnt *feel* right) [12:50] How about least bad. [12:50] yeah, "sucks least" is probably the right term :) [12:51] It just seemed that 'everyone will use pulse by default' was not the right assumption to use. [12:52] well, if libflahsupport would work as it did in gutsy it would all be fine ... but flash changed and the lib didnt keep up [12:55] ubuntu should just default to pulse everywhere [12:55] and drop dmix [12:55] well, maybe not, because that means more poeple use swfdec instead of closed source [12:56] Company: Hardy is what it is at this point and won't change at that level. It's to late for should. [12:57] oh right [12:57] i was thinking intrepid here [12:57] Company, right, thats what we will likely do [12:58] but flash isn't the only one talking to dmix - or did you make mplayer etc talk to pulse, too? [12:58] i think mplayer has an opportunity, i'm not much into players myself [12:58] siretart would surely know ... [12:59] i don't have much of a clue about the hardy situation as i have everything customized - life of an upstream developer [12:59] mplayer defaults to pulse. [13:00] Or maybe I didn't end up doing that. [13:00] But it has the option. [13:00] alsa has the option to default to pulse, too ;) [13:00] yes, thats how we do remote sound in LTSP [13:00] Company: Yes, but as pulse uses ALSA for output, that ends up being a little odd. [13:01] persia: nope [13:01] persia: pulse only takes hardware devices [13:01] well, it uses the alsa driver to do so [13:01] persia: fedora 9 does it that way [13:01] (not the libs tough) [13:02] so they transparently moved all apps to pulse [13:02] almost transparently [13:02] heh [13:02] i was under the impression pulse only replaced esd in hardy [13:02] Company: Almost transparently. There's a number of side effects of the app -> alsa -> pulse -> alsa -> HW loop, but it's more transparent than hardy. [13:03] persia: i'm aware of the problems (like no mmap access) - but the fedora guys seemed pretty happy [13:04] you could hack libflashsupport to check for a pulse output in alsa and if it exists prefer that over default [13:05] dunno if that requires hacking alsa config to provide one though [13:06] that wont keep libflashsupport from crashing firefox [13:06] first of all libflashsupport needs to actually not segfault before we can even think about going on using it :) [13:07] oh, it's that bad? [13:07] ignore me then :) [13:07] nspluginwrapper for 32bit would be nice indeed. [13:07] it tears down FF if you go back and forward on a youtube site [13:07] ion_, well, it only hides the prob [13:08] i think you deserve it for not going entirely free :p [13:08] Yes, but as long as we have closed-source plugins, it might be best to hide the problem. :-) [13:08] (and surely many others as well, which is a bad sideeffect since such bugs wont be reported ot fixed) [13:08] seeing flash and nvidia blow up in your face is nice :p [13:08] buy intel :) [13:09] i have intel [13:09] well, that was a more generally meant shameless advert :) [13:10] ubuntu should have more shameless adverts [13:10] heh [13:10] put "everything works better than nvidia" on the cds [13:11] fglrx doesn’t. :-P [13:11] "you have to play this CD backwards to make it run on nvidia hardware" [13:20] heh [13:23] morning [13:29] slangasek: Nobody has got back to me with anything. I'm going to post instructions to the bug once again to try and get people to help. If nothing happens, theres not much I can do. [13:44] every time there's a kernel update it breaks my wireless, i have to rebuild svn madwifi and install it in place of the distributed madwifi [13:44] alex-weej: What is the difference between the two that causes you to do this? [13:45] alex-weej: it builds kernel-api-specific modules? [13:45] possibly... let me try to load the distributed ones. i'll be back in 2 minutes! [13:51] http://pastebin.ca/1058984 [13:51] not much to see... [13:51] with the distro modules from l-r-m, n-m doesn't even think i have a wlan adapter [13:51] alex-weej: It's not every kernel update... [13:51] Just ABI-breaking ones. [13:52] basically all of them :P [13:52] but yeah [13:52] alex-weej: The right way to fix that is to determine what bit you need to make your device work, and ensure that this is available in the next update. [13:52] i was simply trying to say that with every new kernel release, the madwifi version is still ancient [13:52] or just built wrong [13:52] cause this has been going on for a very long time [13:54] alex-weej: It likely needs someone with affected hardware (e.g. you) to investigate, and generate a good bug report. === ara_lunch is now known as ara === devfil_ is now known as devfil [14:07] is already up here actually. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24/+bug/122703 [14:07] Launchpad bug 122703 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 "Upgrade Atheros drivers to snapshot/trunk to support AR5008/AR5418" [Low,In progress] [14:08] i wanted to test intrepid actually... see if it was fixed [14:08] but no Live CD :( [14:09] alex-weej: I think that bug tells the story well. Upstream keeps deciding that the versions you need aren't ready for release, and the kernel developers respect their opinion. [14:10] yeah i see that myself now. [14:10] Probably best to update one of the upstream tickets with your successful test report and help build confidence in the driver upstream, if it works for you. [14:10] annoying, as they claim all their efforts are going on ath5k now [14:10] and this chipset won't be supported for a while as there's no open HAL for it [14:53] pitti, doko, cjwatson: Is it possible to get makedumpfile MIRd today? :) [14:57] * cjwatson <- not in ubuntu-mir and would rather not [15:00] cjwatson: ah, thought you were for some reason [15:08] Hi, somebody here, having experiences with installing hardy on Apple Xserve Intel? Where can I get (commercial) support on that? [15:10] croessner: This isnt a support channel. You might be able to find free help in #ubuntu or #ubuntu-server Canonical.com sells support, although I do not know the specifics of what hardware they will support it on. [15:12] Pici, thx, I know that this is not a support channel. At the other side, I did not know where to ask elsewhere. All the commercial supporters are PC supporters not Apple Xserve. So I thought asking the devs for help. [15:13] croessner: canonical would be able to provide more information on support contracts [15:24] ok who is the guy making all the restart jokes [15:24] i just updated samba and openssl and i am told to reboot, what kind of joke is it ? [15:24] why don't i go use windows that is better than this ? [15:24] Eh. [15:24] Please read the topic. [15:24] sorry to be rude [15:25] yeah i'm in here complaining to the devs [15:25] you don't have to reboot if you're sure that you've restarted everything using the relevant libraries [15:25] you guys. this isn't an issue or a bug [15:25] cjwatson: why doesn't ubuntu just do that for me ? [15:25] unfortunately, while restarting server processes is relatively straightforward and we do that, restarting clients is infeasible [15:25] this is not a good way to keep new users [15:25] So, you’d rather tell newbies ”please restart everything that depends on the following libraries”? [15:25] and it can actually matter for the openssl updates, I'm afraid [15:26] cjwatson: yeah i have done 4 in the past month why is that ? [15:26] my debian box has had about 2ish [15:26] see the changelogs [15:27] we provide extensive documentation with each update, for those interested in digging [15:27] can you guys up in in dev fix your distro so we don't get new users jumping over to vista. which reboots far less often [15:27] no offense [15:27] ubuntuzistheneww, like if new users had major concerns with the need to reboot, specially when they get a proper notification... [15:27] we're not really interested in a debate of this form [15:27] bugs are bugs, and are given priorities [15:27] but sometimes we just disagree [15:27] this is a bug [15:27] i'm filing a bug [15:27] it's not especially clear that it is [15:28] its a bug [15:28] thank you [15:28] Meh. [15:28] * cjwatson shrugs, if he doesn't even want to listen to us trying to explain ... [15:30] benc: Have you had a chance to look at my email (the grub last-good-boot debdiff), btw? [15:35] i have filed a bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/244250 good day [15:35] Launchpad bug 244250 in ubuntu "reboot every single update in the past month on ubuntu hardy nearly. massively decreasing my uptime." [Undecided,New] [15:36] I wonder how *uptime* is relevant. [15:36] im in ur apt eeting ur uptimez.. [15:42] If you're selling hosting services and have quality of service provisions in the contract every reboot can cost you. [15:43] I'm addressing the bug report; there is at least one real issue buried in there, I think [15:43] ScottK: but then you wouldn't want a single point of failure as well, like only one box for a service? ;) [15:44]