[09:55] evand, could you please make sure you have wubi/hardy.cdiso rev 505 selfextract in the new ISOs? [09:55] I have tested it and looks good here [09:56] could you also please test #136682? [12:52] oem-config: cjwatson * r474 oem-config/ (configure configure.ac): bump to 1.40 [12:57] oem-config: cjwatson * r475 oem-config/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Switch to glade-3. [13:57] xivulon: will do [14:17] evand thanks [15:01] cjwatson: btw, you asked about the input/hal/xorg stuff on ubuntu-x@ a couple of weeks ago. You mentioned that "expert help" is available if needed, so who should I contact to get it going?-) === bdmurray_ is now known as bdmurray === evand_ is now known as evand [22:06] evand, I can see in http://people.ubuntu.com/~evand/wubi/ that wubi-selfextract is as of the 24 of june, cannot download now, is wubi-selfextract 505 going in the ISO? [22:07] xivulon: 505 is there. I've already told slangasek about it. [22:08] cool thanks [22:08] that is selfextract correct? [22:10] correct [22:11] 2xcool [22:18] evand, i forget, what was the limitation in switching the time zone selector to strictly time zones rather than the current "city" implementation? [22:23] mario_limonciell: the city is needed to infer the country in order to build a complete locale [22:24] it's the most economical way to get both country and timezone [22:24] ah because locale can't be necessarily inferred from keyboard selection [22:24] right? [22:24] absolutely not [22:25] we tried doing that (the other way round, admittedly, but I think the effects are pretty similar) for warty and lots of people were using keyboards that didn't match their country very well [22:25] plus there isn't a complete correspondence anyway [22:25] would it be sensible to maybe just ask the preferred locale as another question then to make that time zone page easier for people to understand? [22:26] the only thing you can do to connect locales and keyboard mappings is to use one as a reasonable default for the other; anything more is doomed [22:26] I don't really want to ask another question that for most people could be inferred from that one [22:26] I'd rather we continued to try to improve the city selector UI [22:26] understood. they are all fairly intertwined [22:27] country<->timezone have a much tighter correspondence, even though it isn't perfect for quite everyone [22:27] perhaps a better suggestion then: [22:27] I still like zoom map widget but with partial zoom window [22:27] like magnifying lens [22:27] asking the timezone first, and then fine tuning that with cities in that time zone [22:28] and picking the one closest to you [22:28] a large number of people have no idea what timezone they're in [22:28] IME [22:28] they know where they are [22:28] I agree, picking the city is easier than the timezone [22:28] really? I guess having a very US centric view, that's surprising [22:29] my experience is that the US is unusual here: everyone talks about being on Eastern or Central or whatever [22:29] yeah [22:29] we had this idea of highlighting the timezone on hoover/city selection, is that going to happen? [22:29] that's rare from what I've heard elsewhere [22:29] at least in portions of the US (for example where I live), choosing the closest city picks the wrong time zone [22:29] do you not know that that city over there keeps different time? [22:29] that strikes me as the sort of thing you'd know about nearby cities [22:30] being able to highlight the timezone is looking increasingly plausible; Ted Gould found a data source we can use [22:30] well that's the thing, i'm new to TX, so i didn't realize parts of it would be on different timezones [22:30] how would asking for the timezone and picking the closest city have helped, then? :-) [22:30] ah, you knew what timezone you were in [22:31] I do contend that's a fairly rare situation [22:31] well I know that i'm central time since US people know these thigns :) [22:31] timezone highlighting will help a lot, I think [22:31] yeah i agree [22:31] well and what was it i just saw that highlighing in... mozilla lightning [22:32] when you receive ical notifications, you can select which timezone to adjust them to, and they highlight the map properly [22:32] interesting, didn't know about that [22:32] Ted sucked it out of the CIA Factbook I think [22:32] just noticed it myself today and it reminded me that this was bothersome === soren_ is now known as soren [22:33] in Europe, you'd get people going "huh, am I on Western Europe time or Central Europe time?" [22:34] (this is a particular trick question because very few parts of we generally refer to as Western Europe are actually on Western Europe time) [22:34] ah : [22:35] it's also worth remembering that the timezone you're in right now isn't sufficient, due to daylight savings madness [22:35] cf. Indiana [22:35] or is it Arizona? I forget [22:35] used to be indiana [22:35] the city is particularly good because that maps *directly* to the notation in the timezone database [22:35] they abolished that now though, and have committed to eastern time only [22:36] right, and for those people who picked a relevant city in Indiana, they got automatically transitioned to that with no configuration changes required [22:37] ideally i suppose for the US: if there was an accurate representation on that map for the time zones and cities in those time zones, say clicking a region in TX near my area, perhaps that would automatically map to the closest city actually in the time zone that is in the database [22:37] that would be the happiest medium I could see [22:37] yeah, that's what I'd like to see too [22:38] I'm not sure everyone can point accurately to their location on an unmarked world map, but with city and timezone markings that should be enough context for most [22:38] yeah [22:38] I'm still not sure about the auto-zooming; the attempt at that in hardy went, frankly, very badly indeed [22:39] users found it disorienting and difficult to control [22:39] especially in the oem-config context. i found the ubiquity map more usable than the oem-config one [22:40] a magnifying lens *might* work but we need to be very careful; crude attempts at rendering something like that could actually come out worse, if it doesn't look and feel like a lens [22:40] did the idea of breaking the map up into continents come up? [22:40] so you have a different graphic you show when you pick your continent [22:41] I don't think so [22:41] wouldn't the different shapes be tricky? [22:41] I suppose it might stand some chance [22:42] well you figure to go with square boxes [22:42] I don't mean that kind of shape, more the different aspect ratios [22:42] North America is much taller than Asia [22:42] but they all have to fit into the same sort of shape of window [22:42] would have to use the same size for both, and use multiple snapshots for the bigger continents [22:43] africa would probably need two for example [22:43] * cjwatson contemplates using a bit of insomnia to tackle bug 64058 [23:39] console-setup: cjwatson * r73 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog config.proto): [23:39] console-setup: If console-setup/layoutcode is preseeded but not marked as seen, then [23:39] console-setup: set the default layout but don't lower the layout question priority or [23:39] console-setup: preseed console-setup/ask_detect (LP: #64058). [23:49] casper: cjwatson * r515 casper/ (debian/changelog scripts/casper-bottom/19keyboard): [23:49] casper: Support ?= (set value but don't mark as seen) preseeding syntax for [23:49] casper: console-setup/* (LP: #64058). [23:50] console-setup: cjwatson * r74 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.25ubuntu2 [23:54] casper: cjwatson * r516 casper/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.134