[09:55] <xivulon> evand, could you please make sure you have wubi/hardy.cdiso rev 505 selfextract in the new ISOs?
[09:55] <xivulon> I have tested it and looks good here
[09:56] <xivulon> could you also please test #136682?
[12:52] <CIA-48> oem-config: cjwatson * r474 oem-config/ (configure configure.ac): bump to 1.40
[12:57] <CIA-48> oem-config: cjwatson * r475 oem-config/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Switch to glade-3.
[13:57] <evand> xivulon: will do
[14:17] <xivulon> evand thanks
[15:01] <tjaalton> cjwatson: btw, you asked about the input/hal/xorg stuff on ubuntu-x@ a couple of weeks ago. You mentioned that "expert help" is available if needed, so who should I contact to get it going?-)
[22:06] <xivulon> evand, I can see in http://people.ubuntu.com/~evand/wubi/ that wubi-selfextract is as of the 24 of june, cannot download now, is wubi-selfextract 505 going in the ISO?
[22:07] <evand> xivulon: 505 is there.  I've already told slangasek about it.
[22:08] <xivulon> cool thanks
[22:08] <xivulon> that is selfextract correct?
[22:10] <evand> correct
[22:11] <xivulon> 2xcool
[22:18] <mario_limonciell> evand, i forget, what was the limitation in switching the time zone selector to strictly time zones rather than the current "city" implementation?
[22:23] <cjwatson> mario_limonciell: the city is needed to infer the country in order to build a complete locale
[22:24] <cjwatson> it's the most economical way to get both country and timezone
[22:24] <mario_limonciell> ah because locale can't be necessarily inferred from keyboard selection
[22:24] <mario_limonciell> right?
[22:24] <cjwatson> absolutely not
[22:25] <cjwatson> we tried doing that (the other way round, admittedly, but I think the effects are pretty similar) for warty and lots of people were using keyboards that didn't match their country very well
[22:25] <cjwatson> plus there isn't a complete correspondence anyway
[22:25] <mario_limonciell> would it be sensible to maybe just ask the preferred locale as another question then to make that time zone page easier for people to understand?
[22:26] <cjwatson> the only thing you can do to connect locales and keyboard mappings is to use one as a reasonable default for the other; anything more is doomed
[22:26] <cjwatson> I don't really want to ask another question that for most people could be inferred from that one
[22:26] <cjwatson> I'd rather we continued to try to improve the city selector UI
[22:26] <mario_limonciell> understood.  they are all fairly intertwined
[22:27] <cjwatson> country<->timezone have a much tighter correspondence, even though it isn't perfect for quite everyone
[22:27] <mario_limonciell> perhaps a better suggestion then:
[22:27] <xivulon> I still like zoom map widget but with partial zoom window
[22:27] <xivulon> like magnifying lens
[22:27] <mario_limonciell> asking the timezone first, and then fine tuning that with cities in that time zone
[22:28] <mario_limonciell> and picking the one closest to you
[22:28] <cjwatson> a large number of people have no idea what timezone they're in
[22:28] <cjwatson> IME
[22:28] <cjwatson> they know where they are
[22:28] <xivulon> I agree, picking the city is easier than the timezone
[22:28] <mario_limonciell> really?  I guess having a very US centric view, that's surprising
[22:29] <cjwatson> my experience is that the US is unusual here: everyone talks about being on Eastern or Central or whatever
[22:29] <mario_limonciell> yeah
[22:29] <xivulon> we had this idea of highlighting the timezone on hoover/city selection, is that going to happen?
[22:29] <cjwatson> that's rare from what I've heard elsewhere
[22:29] <mario_limonciell> at least in portions of the US (for example where I live), choosing the closest city picks the wrong time zone
[22:29] <cjwatson> do you not know that that city over there keeps different time?
[22:29] <cjwatson> that strikes me as the sort of thing you'd know about nearby cities
[22:30] <cjwatson> being able to highlight the timezone is looking increasingly plausible; Ted Gould found a data source we can use
[22:30] <mario_limonciell> well that's the thing, i'm new to TX, so i didn't realize parts of it would be on different timezones
[22:30] <cjwatson> how would asking for the timezone and picking the closest city have helped, then? :-)
[22:30] <cjwatson> ah, you knew what timezone you were in
[22:31] <cjwatson> I do contend that's a fairly rare situation
[22:31] <mario_limonciell> well I know that i'm central time since US people know these thigns :)
[22:31] <cjwatson> timezone highlighting will help a lot, I think
[22:31] <mario_limonciell> yeah i agree
[22:31] <mario_limonciell> well and what was it i just saw that highlighing in... mozilla lightning
[22:32] <mario_limonciell> when you receive ical notifications, you can select which timezone to adjust them to, and they highlight the map properly
[22:32] <cjwatson> interesting, didn't know about that
[22:32] <cjwatson> Ted sucked it out of the CIA Factbook I think
[22:32] <mario_limonciell> just noticed it myself today and it reminded me that this was bothersome
[22:33] <cjwatson> in Europe, you'd get people going "huh, am I on Western Europe time or Central Europe time?"
[22:34] <cjwatson> (this is a particular trick question because very few parts of we generally refer to as Western Europe are actually on Western Europe time)
[22:34] <mario_limonciell> ah :
[22:35] <cjwatson> it's also worth remembering that the timezone you're in right now isn't sufficient, due to daylight savings madness
[22:35] <cjwatson> cf. Indiana
[22:35] <cjwatson> or is it Arizona? I forget
[22:35] <mario_limonciell> used to be indiana
[22:35] <cjwatson> the city is particularly good because that maps *directly* to the notation in the timezone database
[22:35] <mario_limonciell> they abolished that now though, and have committed to eastern time only
[22:36] <cjwatson> right, and for those people who picked a relevant city in Indiana, they got automatically transitioned to that with no configuration changes required
[22:37] <mario_limonciell> ideally i suppose for the US: if there was an accurate representation on that map for the time zones and cities in those time zones, say clicking a region in TX near my area, perhaps that would automatically map to the closest city actually in the time zone that is in the database
[22:37] <mario_limonciell> that would be the happiest medium I could see
[22:37] <cjwatson> yeah, that's what I'd like to see too
[22:38] <cjwatson> I'm not sure everyone can point accurately to their location on an unmarked world map, but with city and timezone markings that should be enough context for most
[22:38] <mario_limonciell> yeah
[22:38] <cjwatson> I'm still not sure about the auto-zooming; the attempt at that in hardy went, frankly, very badly indeed
[22:39] <cjwatson> users found it disorienting and difficult to control
[22:39] <mario_limonciell> especially in the oem-config context.  i found the ubiquity map more usable than the oem-config one
[22:40] <cjwatson> a magnifying lens *might* work but we need to be very careful; crude attempts at rendering something like that could actually come out worse, if it doesn't look and feel like a lens
[22:40] <mario_limonciell> did the idea of breaking the map up into continents come up?
[22:40] <mario_limonciell> so you have a different graphic you show when you pick your continent
[22:41] <cjwatson> I don't think so
[22:41] <cjwatson> wouldn't the different shapes be tricky?
[22:41] <cjwatson> I suppose it might stand some chance
[22:42] <mario_limonciell> well you figure to go with square boxes
[22:42] <cjwatson> I don't mean that kind of shape, more the different aspect ratios
[22:42] <cjwatson> North America is much taller than Asia
[22:42] <cjwatson> but they all have to fit into the same sort of shape of window
[22:42] <mario_limonciell> would have to use the same size for both, and use multiple snapshots for the bigger continents
[22:43] <mario_limonciell> africa would probably need two for example
[22:43]  * cjwatson contemplates using a bit of insomnia to tackle bug 64058
[23:39] <CIA-1> console-setup: cjwatson * r73 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog config.proto):
[23:39] <CIA-1> console-setup: If console-setup/layoutcode is preseeded but not marked as seen, then
[23:39] <CIA-1> console-setup: set the default layout but don't lower the layout question priority or
[23:39] <CIA-1> console-setup: preseed console-setup/ask_detect (LP: #64058).
[23:49] <CIA-1> casper: cjwatson * r515 casper/ (debian/changelog scripts/casper-bottom/19keyboard):
[23:49] <CIA-1> casper: Support ?= (set value but don't mark as seen) preseeding syntax for
[23:49] <CIA-1> casper: console-setup/* (LP: #64058).
[23:50] <CIA-1> console-setup: cjwatson * r74 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.25ubuntu2
[23:54] <CIA-1> casper: cjwatson * r516 casper/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.134