[00:01] <sonink> nm be back tomorrow
[00:41] <kwwii> re
[00:42] <kwwii> people really need to realize that irc is not an instantaneous form of communication at all times
[00:42] <kwwii> :p
[09:23] <njpatel> kwwii: dark theme sucks! Its all your fault! the entire brand rests on your confused american/german shoulders!
[09:24] <njpatel> that's not my opinion, of course
[09:24] <njpatel> it's actually quite nice, been using it on hardy for a couple of days
[09:25] <njpatel> it feels like my computer is made of chocolate
[09:26] <darkmatter> it is well done, but the white text contrasts a bit too sharply. maybe you should consider changing it to more of an off-white
[09:29] <njpatel> darkmatter: I have, coupled with some nice fonts, I'm really, really liking it
[09:29] <njpatel> although there are a few applications which seem to use hardcoded colours that need to be patched
[09:30] <darkmatter> yup. I have it on my suse. aside from the odd quirk (non-native things like firefox form widgets) it's very well done
[09:59] <kwwii> njpatel: hehe, someone even said I should be shot :p
[09:59] <kwwii> threats on my life because of a dark theme included in an alpha release ;-)
[09:59] <njpatel> kwwii: haha
[09:59] <kwwii> people take this ubuntu stuff seriously
[10:00] <kwwii> I bet only a handful of them are even running the alpha anyway though
[10:00] <njpatel> I'm really liking the theme, though. Congrats
[10:00] <njpatel> kwwii: everyone made there mind up from a screenshot on digg
[10:00] <kwwii> thanks, good to hear a positive review
[10:00] <kwwii> yeah, no doubt
[10:00] <njpatel> they need to use it, as i said, it feels like my computer is made of chocolate :-)
[10:01] <njpatel> kwwii: apps need some work though, xchat-gnome/rhythmbox etc seem to have hard-coded colours...are we reporting these bugs in launchpad or upstream?
[10:02] <kwwii> hehe, while others use a different metaphor :D
[10:02] <kwwii> njpatel: you can report them to me or open a bug report
[10:02] <kwwii> I am compiling a list of problems
[10:02] <kwwii> there are quite a few apps which use blue links in their settings dialog apparently
[10:03] <darkmatter> kwwii: as far as I've been told by people that are actually running it, it's well recieved. it seems the usual flock of winers have crawled out of the dark, dank corners of the world to flame you though :P
[10:03] <kwwii> darkmatter: actually, that is totally normal and I expected it
[10:03] <darkmatter> I even stuck it on openSUSE. my better half, who hates dark themes, is actually using it as her new favorite :P
[10:03] <kwwii> it's not the first time
[10:04] <kwwii> lol, cool :-)
[10:05] <njpatel> kwwii: (re: bugs), okay, maybe have a wikipage or something to keep track of bug numbers. (re: blue links) they've probably all copy-and-pasted code from libegg for those link buttons. I think the one in Gtk handles the colours better
[10:07] <darkmatter> as for some og the text issues, I'll have to dig through my  18 billion notes on themeing. but a lot of that is just widget abuse on the part of devs. most of its not hardcoded, but is using the wrong label colours. I've fixed that in a lot of themes, but the result is always a substantially larger gtkrc. still, it would be better if the devs actually fixed the problems instead of leaving it up to us to hack around them
[10:10] <kwwii> njpatel: yeah, I am making a wiki page today for everything...was going to take care of it yesterday but my wife's grandfather passed away so everything got pushed back
[10:10] <kwwii> darkmatter: indeed, many of the problems are not with the theme but with the apps themselves and how they use widgets and colors
[10:10] <njpatel> kwwii: strange question: now that firefox insists on using gtk widgets and the theme colours, is it work making a standalone firefox theme that stays consistant despite theme changes? I'm mainly concerned about dark widgets on light pages...its jarring
[10:11] <kwwii> darkmatter: but in the end, we have to have a theme which works, no matter what
[10:11] <darkmatter> yup
[10:11] <njpatel> kwwii: oh, I'm sorry to here that :-(
[10:11] <kwwii> njpatel: yeah, firefox is one of the things that stands out
[10:11] <njpatel> s/work/worth
[10:11] <kwwii> well, he was almost 99 so it was not unexpected
[10:11] <njpatel> kwwii: wow, not bad innings :-)
[10:12] <kwwii> he definitely led a full life
[10:12] <kwwii> actually, a lot of web pages do bad things with colors too
[10:12] <kwwii> defining a text color for widgets but not the widget color, etc
[10:15] <kwwii> well, time to cook lunch, bbiab
[10:15] <njpatel> yep, although I think the experience is better with light-coloured widgets rather than dark ones. Most dark sites style the buttons anyway
[11:50] <njpatel> kwwii: (not urgent) do you have a svg for gnome-fs-desktop? I can't seem to find it in the human icon theme
[12:29] <kwwii> njpatel: let me check
[12:31] <njpatel> thanks
[12:32]  * njpatel will be attempting to draw icons today
[12:35] <kwwii> njpatel: hrm, did you find a pixmap in the human theme? I do not that one exists :-)
[12:35] <njpatel> kwwii: yeah, /usr/share/icons/Human/48x48/places/desktop.png
[12:35] <njpatel> (hardy)
[12:35] <kwwii> hrm, or is it one of the symlinked files
[12:36] <njpatel> it's sym'd to user-desktop.png in the same folder
[12:36] <kwwii> right, just saw that
[12:36] <kwwii> I am looking in the package itself and not in the system
[12:36] <njpatel> oh, right
[12:38] <kwwii> njpatel: nope, we do not have an svg for that icon
[12:38] <kwwii> njpatel: I think it is just a copy of a gnome icon (basically) with the old desktop wallpaper and some mimetypes
[12:39] <njpatel> kwwii: okay thanks, I'll search there
[12:39] <kwwii> let me check, since I am already looking
[12:40] <njpatel> kwwii: right you are, it's based on a gnome icon, and there's and svg...thanks!
[12:40] <njpatel> s/and/a
[12:40] <kwwii> glad to be of help :-)
[12:40] <kwwii> let me know if you need any help with an icon or such
[12:41] <njpatel> kwwii: will do, although I'm restricting myself to adding white rectangles to that icon
[12:41] <kwwii> hehe, probably the best idea
[12:41] <kwwii> you might want to put a different colored background as well
[12:41] <njpatel> I don't have issues with designing UI's and larger areas, but can't do icons at all
[12:42] <kwwii> perhaps to match the color of the desktop it will be shown on
[12:42] <kwwii> it is something totally different, eh?
[12:42] <njpatel> kwwii: right, I'm going to change the bg to one from the vendor
[12:42] <njpatel> kwwii: yeah, it's pretty cool :-)
[12:43] <kwwii> fun with individual pixels!
[12:47] <kwwii> njpatel: in the long run, we should put all these pieces of icons that we use for vendors and/or other things together somewhere (not necessarily public if need be)
[12:48] <njpatel> kwwii: that would be really useful...and potentially allow us to make sure the vendor's designers use standard templates...so their apps don't stick out
[12:53] <kwwii> njpatel: not to mention saving lots of time ;-)
[12:53]  * kwwii mumbles something about synergy
[12:54] <njpatel> :-D
[12:55] <njpatel> glade3 autocompletes callback names (on_<name of widget>_<clicked|toggled>. I'm welling up
[12:56] <kwwii> hehe, modern software - simply amazing
[15:38] <kwwii> hrm, where should I put this page for responding to problems with using dark themes
[15:38] <kwwii> nothlit`core: ping? where do you think such a page belongsß
[15:38] <kwwii> s/belongß/belongs?
[15:41] <DanaG> nice.  How'd you accidentally get that character there?
[15:41] <DanaG> I usually have to use AltGr to get that one.
[15:41] <DanaG> ßsßsßsßsßsßsßs
[15:42] <kwwii> hehe, I am using a german keyboard :-)
[15:42] <kwwii> ßüäö
[15:42] <DanaG> Speaking of which, I wish there were a USABLE "print keyboard layout" thing.
[15:42] <DanaG> I found a layout editor for Windows, so I want to make the equivalent of the "AltGr deadkeys" keyboard.
[15:43] <DanaG> But... I first need to find out where everything is on the keyboard.
[15:43] <kwwii> actually, that is a pretty good idea for people like my father-in-law
[15:43] <kwwii> right
[15:43] <DanaG> Regular deadkeys are a royal pain.
[15:43] <kwwii> if you use both a mac and linux box it can get confusing
[15:44] <DanaG> I have OS X on my non-Apple machine... and the keyboard assignment bugs me.  I have "super" as "command" -- but home and end don't act as expected.
[15:44] <kwwii> apple-q closes apps in osx and the apple key is in the same spot as the alt key on a pc so when I try to type an @ symbol it closes my app :p
[15:44] <DanaG> I actually have physical "home" and "end" keys -- yet, for some reason, they don't work.
[15:44] <kwwii> (ie the @ key on a german keyboard is alt-q9
[15:45] <kwwii> ahhh, I can no longer type, must be too warm here
[15:45] <DanaG> kwwii: check out Logitech's keyboards. http://picasaweb.google.com/karkouti/MovingSale/photo#5192966725043134066
[15:45] <DanaG> Random pic I googled up.
[15:46] <DanaG> It bugs me when I have to use super-arrow (or "command"-arrow) to do home and end... even though I HAVE HOME AND END KEYS!
[15:46] <DanaG> I'm sticking with Linux as my primary OS, for sure.
[15:47] <kwwii> wow, that has an amazing amount of keys :-)
[15:47] <DanaG> And a scroll wheel on the keyboard.
[15:47] <DanaG> However, they don't sell that model anymore.
[15:47] <kwwii> I prefer the keyboard on my 10" thinkpad over anything else
[15:47] <DanaG> You can get that for a desktop: ....
[15:48] <kwwii> I own three laptops, no desktops here
[15:48] <DanaG> http://lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/?p=58
[15:48] <DanaG> Aah.
[15:49] <kwwii> ohhh, but that would be nice for my samsung mobile thingy
[15:50] <kwwii> if I can ever remember where I left it :p
[17:01]  * kwwii is off for the evening...bbl
[17:01] <DanaG> Bye.
[18:40] <nothlit> kwwii: if its a sort of troubleshooting, put it under the faq-- if its documentation of problems, in documentation
[19:59] <sonink> hello
[20:00] <sonink> anybody here familiar with doing custom usplash themes?
[21:14] <kwwii> sonink: what are you trying to customize on it?
[21:15] <kwwii> nothlit: it is supposed to be a page in which we can list and discuss the different problems using dark themes, I've put in on it#s own subpage of the main Artwork section, we can move it if we have a better idea
[21:49] <kwwii> nothlit: I have also added a page for a description of the NewHuman theme so that others can get involved and/or just complain more :p
[21:53] <sonink> kwwii: I'm just trying to use a custom image I made for now.
[21:54] <sonink> kwwii: and the info on the usplash customization page isn't extremely in-depth, especially the edgy part.
[22:17] <kwwii> sonink: basically, you have to make all the pics at the right sizes and all with the *same* 256 colors
[22:18] <sonink> kwwii: I just found another how-to that seems to be more up to date and more complete
[22:18] <kwwii> sonink: the config files sets offsets into the colormap of the pics for text colors, warning, etc
[22:18] <kwwii> sonink: cool, let me know if you need any more help
[22:20] <kwwii> funny, almost 9 years ago I co-authored the bootsplash which allows for totally different pics as well as using jpegs (although with only 16bit color)...seems like the usplash is kinda dormant :p
[23:20] <nothlit> sonink: you might want to look at the fluxbuntu code, should be on launchpad-- tonic and troy created a circular animated usplash for us
[23:30] <sonink> nothlit: okay.  thanks a lot! gottar run. ttyl
[23:31] <nothlit> kwwii: oh ok, i'll take a look after i get to vancouver