[07:38] <evilbug> hey.
[09:13] <jerryfan> Hello all, is it possible to upgrade ogg decoder/encoder in gstreamer 0.10??
[09:20] <ttkeppi> hi! can ubuntu be installed into htc tytn? -i'm thinking of getting one, but the win mobile operating system isn't the thing i want..
[09:24] <jerryfan> ttkeppi, I don't think so it is doable.
[09:25] <ttkeppi> jerryfan: ok. thanks :) -you know of any free linux os for smartphones?
[09:28] <suihkulokki> ttkeppi: your best chance at the moment is to buy a openmoko
[09:38] <ttkeppi> suihkulokki: no qwerty, unless with bluetooth.. looks nice tho
[14:44] <jerryfan> DebbieFoghorn, do u know what's the nick name for Michael Terry?
[14:45] <DebbieFoghorn> jerryfan: mterry
[14:45] <mterry> jerryfan: Hi  :)
[14:46] <jerryfan> mterry, Do u know is there any way to change sampling rate?
[14:46] <jerryfan> mterry, hacking into src code is always my last resort
[14:47] <mterry> jerryfan: Yeah, the gstreamer pipelines that the various profiles use are in /system/gstreamer/0.10/audio/profiles
[14:47] <jerryfan> mterry, I saw some samling things in gconf path but can't find anything related to ogg. So not sure is gconf the right thing to look at
[14:47] <mterry> jerryfan: For your purposes, you probably want cdlossy (the default)
[14:47] <mterry> cdlossy is ogg
[14:48] <mterry> (just because its pipeline sets it up that way
[14:48] <mterry> jerryfan: So there's a pipeline setting which has a rate= setting, which is what I assume you want?
[14:49] <jerryfan> mterry, yea, I found it. But beside than 44100, what else I can use? Can I use an arbitrary number? such as 25000?
[14:51] <mterry> jerryfan: I don't know.  I think the 'well' known numbers are 16000/22050/32000
[14:52] <jerryfan> mterry, great. It works. I used 8000 and it worked great. Thanks. Will test on JAX10 tmr to see .
[15:32] <persia> jerryfan: Note that if you're down to 8000, you'll lose high-pitch sounds (everything over ~2kHz will be distorted), and we humans can hear up to ~20kHz
[15:33] <persia> (hence audiophiles complaining about CDs which are only clean up to about 11kHz)
[15:35] <K3rnelP4nic> damn, my screen is blinking and X server not start ;_;
[15:36] <jerryfan> persia, thanks for explaining. I will try to lower from 22K and see which sampling rate is the maximum safety level.
[15:38] <persia> jerryfan: Good luck.  Sound gets distorted at about 1/4 the sample rate, mostly unhearable at 1/2 the sample rate, and completely devoid of meaning at about 80% of the sample rate.  If you can attach some good speakers, you might hear more "hiss" or "chirps" for certain sounds (which can be reduced by careful construction of the sounds for the lower sample rates)
[15:38] <persia> On the other hand, if you are using device speakers, it may not matter.  Most consumer earbuds get up to about 16Khz, which is why 32000 is one of the good sample points.  44100 is the rate used on CDs.
[15:39] <persia> K3rnelP4nic: What device are you using?  More specifically, what type of video card does it use?
[15:39] <jerryfan> persia, so I'll start from 32000. 
[15:41] <smagoun> persia: by dropping the sample rate itself (which is what he is donig), there is less of a problem. FWIW the telephone system in the US uses an effective 8khz, higher rates are only really necessary for high-quality music (which the mic in question isn't good enough to pick up anyway)
[15:42] <K3rnelP4nic> persia: is a preproduction device
[15:42] <persia> smagoun: Right.  Depends entirely on the hardware.  If the MIC can only get ~2kHz, then 8kHz is fine.
[15:43] <persia> On the other hand, if people are going to use an aftermarket mic (assuming a jack) for bootlegging concerts, they might want 22050 or 32000.
[15:44] <persia> K3rnelP4nic: OK.  More information would help me help you, but in the absence of that, I'll tell you to consider tweaking /etc/event.d/session and creating an alternate xorg.conf
[15:47] <K3rnelP4nic> persia: if i use the img provided by ubuntu-mobile i get all times No space left on device, and have 2x3Gb flash disc ;_;
[15:48] <persia> K3rnelP4nic: Hmm.  That's confusing.  The image itself is 500MB, and ought install with user-space remaining for 2GB, let alone 6.  I'll admit to only testing it with a 60GB HD, so I can't be sure.
[15:49] <persia> Anyway, even if you create your own image, it is likely that your screen is blinking because X won't start because xorg.conf is wrong, and the session event is respawning after each failure.
[15:51] <K3rnelP4nic> im correcting my own image atm
[15:51] <K3rnelP4nic> but, with my image install fine. I not have any problem with disk space
[15:52] <persia> K3rnelP4nic: How are you constructing your image?
[15:53] <K3rnelP4nic> with image-creator
[15:54] <persia> Which version?
[15:57] <K3rnelP4nic> mmm, i dont remember :P
[16:21] <davidm> jerryfan, please have a look at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080702 for info on sysfs interface. 
[16:25] <suihkulokki> btw, please keep me informed if you are at some point you are having arm on your meeting agenda
[16:29] <persia> suihkulokki: It's an open agenda.  If you've something specific about ARM you'd like to discuss, please add it.
[16:45] <jerryfan> davidm, got u.  will look at it tmr. So tired today
[16:46] <davidm> NP, just wanted to point you at it so you knew it was there.  Cheers
[16:46] <davidm> persia, you still awake?
[16:47] <persia> davidm: Not for much longer, but I've a couple things I want to finish before I sleep.
[16:47] <davidm> persia, can you give me a quick call?  Have some news for you.
[18:20] <hitsuji> Is anyone here familiar with MidBrowser and can explain why it tells me it's in offline mode when I connected to the net through a HSDPA modem?
[18:41] <lool> suihkulokki: I'll try to ping you if we have questions around armel popping up in the agenda :)
[19:04] <DanaG>  simple-mobile-builder --platform menlow-lpia-ume vbox hardy
[19:04] <DanaG> /usr/bin/ubuntu-vm-builder: line 230: vm_getopt_args: unbound variable
[19:04] <DanaG> usage: ubuntu-vm-builder <vm> <suite>              .... and goes on to give usage.
[19:05] <DanaG> Another thing: where exactly does it say the difference between "menlow" and "mccalsin"?
[19:06] <DanaG> aah, nevermind.. I guess I don't need to build my own.  I can just use the kvm image.  Cool.
[19:18] <vircuser> register 1234 kenkc_chen@compal.com
[19:42] <mterry> lool: evince looks for the lpia target to toggle hildon support.  That's not so appropriate these days since netbooks use lpia too.  Is there a more clever "am i building for a MID" check?
[19:44] <smagoun> mterry: what we've done for other packages (cheese) is to strip out the 'enable hildon' bits in debian/rules
[19:44] <smagoun> it is not elegant, but gets the job done
[19:44] <mterry> smagoun: Yeah, I was hoping for a better check, but my fallback is the '#' key
[19:44] <smagoun> eh?
[19:44] <mterry> smagoun: To comment it out
[19:45] <smagoun> ah, i get it. funny. :)
[19:46] <davidm> mterry, add a define ENABLE_HILDON?
[19:47] <mterry> davidm: If you're talking about the actual code, that's already there.  I'm looking for a smarter check in debian/rules that passes --enable-hildon only for MID
[19:47] <davidm> Ah, sorry
[19:47] <mterry> davidm: Thx anyway  :)
[19:48] <davidm> lool, might have better ideas once he finishes dinner.
[20:41] <lool> mterry: I'm glad you come to this conclusion; it's usually hard to explain why the approach of if (arch == lpia) then --enable-hildon is bad :)
[20:42] <lool> mterry: Ideally, packages would have pluggable interfaces and we would build all of them in a single build, and they would select interfaces at runtime
[20:42] <lool> Or we would ship various interfaces in various packages
[20:43] <lool> This is not the case and not always easy to do though, so what I think we should so when the software can be configured at build time for one or the other is build twice
[20:43] <lool> I think evince already has two flavors for instance, so we'd need to add a new one
[20:43] <mterry> lool: Yeah, evince and evince-gtk, but I wasn't clear on the difference
[20:43] <lool> mterry: Sadly, doing multiple builds in packaging rules is not terribly nice
[20:43] <lool> mterry: evince-gtk is for e.g. xfce; it avoid gnome* libs
[20:43] <mterry> lool: Ah.
[20:44] <lool> mterry: This is less true nowadays, but it's still desirable to avoid gnome deps for some use cases
[20:44] <mterry> lool: Yeah, gnome's doing an end-run around them by just pushing the code to gtk+  :)
[20:44] <lool> The difference is quite minimal in fact
[20:44] <lool> mterry: Exactly
[20:45] <lool> mterry: Perhaps inspired by qt ... 3 :)
[20:45] <lool> mterry: Anyway, evince/GNOME versus evince/Gtk+ isn't really the discussion; it's more evince/G* versus evince/Hildon :)
[20:46] <lool> mterry: The cheese / elisa approach can work in all cases for hildon (not for all UIs), but it's not very elegant either
[20:46] <mterry> lool: Right.  Presumably that would be easy to do since it already splits once for -gtk
[20:46] <lool> Yup
[20:46] <mterry> lool: OK, I'll put it on my when-I-have-spare-cycles list
[20:47] <lool> mterry: Sure; there is some trickery for multi builds in cdbs, but it quickly becomes ... ugly
[20:47] <lool> We need new tools IMO :)
[20:47] <lool> But this could be solved upstream too
[20:47]  * lool disappears again to write some letters
[21:13] <evilbug> where can i download MID from?
[21:14] <evilbug> i don't see a download link on the website...
[21:54] <DanaG> Hmm, I converted the image, but X won't start on it (and it won't give up on starting X).
[21:55] <DanaG> And I don't know the root password or the user password.
[21:59] <DanaG> And it's kind of hard to log in when it keeps going:
[22:00] <DanaG> ﻿start X.  Nope, won't start.  ﻿start X.  Nope, won't start.  ﻿start X.  Nope, won't start.  ﻿start X.  Nope, won't start.  ﻿start X.  Nope, won't start.  
[22:00] <DanaG> (It's not giving up, even after 50 tries.)
[22:10] <DanaG> aah, found it: "ubuntu"
[22:12] <DanaG> Great, no 'piix' module == I can't use VM additions.
[22:13] <DanaG> Oh, I can just get them another way.
[22:47] <DanaG> Argh, I can't build the vbox modules.
[22:47] <DanaG> Kernel headers don't match the running kernel.
[22:57] <DanaG> I'm going to try lpiacompat.