[00:15] <homebrewcider> hey there, I have a FAT32 partition I want read/write access to. I have it mounted at /media/FAT32, but it's the fstab bit I have problems with, can anyone help please?
[00:16] <zoredache> how did you mount it in /media/FAT32?
[00:17] <homebrewcider> <sudo mount /dev/sda6 /media/FAT32>
[00:19] <zoredache> homebrewcider: so an fstab line like  "/dev/sda6 /media/FAT32 auto defaults 0 0' should probably do what you want
[00:20] <zoredache> though you might want to change the defaults to do something like setup the group, owner, and umask since fat32 doesn't have permissions
[00:21] <homebrewcider> I'll try that
[00:24] <homebrewcider> no, no good
[00:24] <zoredache> how so?
[00:24] <homebrewcider> not giving me write access
[00:24] <zoredache> but did it get mounted?
[00:25] <homebrewcider> I had no problems mounting it before, that's not the problem, writing is the problem
[00:25] <Shaba1> anyone here?
[00:26] <zoredache> as I mentioned... fat doesn't have permissions.  When mounted through fstab everything will appear to be owned by root:root by default
[00:26] <Shaba1> Ok how do we get a windows partition to show up in thunar.
[00:26] <zoredache> if you have a single users system you can replace the 'defaults' column with something like 'uid=1000'
[00:26] <Shaba1> I alread have it in /etc/fstab
[00:27] <zoredache> homebrewcider: that will basicall make everything be owned by the user 1000 which is usually the id associated with the first user on the system
[00:28] <homebrewcider>    like this?   </dev/sda6                                  /media/FAT32    auto         uid=1000                    0  0>
[00:28] <zoredache> I believe that is right
[00:29] <homebrewcider> that's not working either
[00:29] <zoredache> again, not working how?  Does it mount?
[00:30] <homebrewcider> it's been mounted the whole time
[00:30] <zoredache> if you do an ls on it after you have remounted does it show you as the owner?
[00:30] <zoredache> homebrewcider: you realize you have unmount/remount when you make a change to the fstab right?
[00:30] <zoredache> or reboot
[00:30] <homebrewcider> oh
[00:31] <zoredache> so unmount the volume then do a 'sudo mount -a'
[00:31] <Shaba1> huh
[00:31] <Shaba1> zoredache can I get our attention after homebrewcider
[00:32] <zoredache> Shaba1: what do you mean by show up in thunar?  If you want it to show up on the desktop I don't know anything about that
[00:32] <sloopy> Shaba1, is it mounted?
[00:32] <Shaba1> Well it shows up in /etc/fstab
[00:33] <Shaba1> but when I open thundar its not there
[00:33] <zoredache> if you do a 'mount' in a terminal does it show up?
[00:33] <sloopy> Shaba1, do a 'df -h'
[00:33] <sloopy> see if it is listed
[00:33] <Shaba1> hold on
[00:33] <homebrewcider> ok, that worked, can I just ask you why "sudo mount -a" is different to me doing "sudo mount /dev/sda6  /media/FAT32"  ?
[00:34] <Shaba1> yep it is liste by that command as /dev/sda1
[00:34] <zoredache> homebrewcider: mount -a will read the fstab and automatically mount everything not flaged with 'noauto'
[00:34] <sloopy> the -a mounts all partitions listed in /etc/fstab
[00:34] <sloopy> yeah that...
[00:34] <Shaba1> its monted on
[00:34] <Shaba1> sorry
[00:35] <homebrewcider> I'm sure in the past my fstab had options like noauto,user,exec,noatime
[00:35] <Shaba1> that command says its "Mounted on" /Media/Cdrive
[00:35] <homebrewcider> so when I was mounting it before it wasn't reading the fstab?
[00:35] <homebrewcider> is that right?
[00:36] <Shaba1> sloopy?
[00:36] <zoredache> homebrewcider: I am not quite sure...
[00:36] <zoredache> Shaba1: try browsing to the folder /media/cdrive
[00:36] <sloopy> Shaba1, then put that in thundar and see it
[00:36] <homebrewcider> thanx anyway
[00:36] <Shaba1> put in in how?
[00:36] <Shaba1> put what in
[00:36] <Shaba1> the "/dev/sda1 part
[00:37] <sloopy> err sry was thinking different... click on file system then media
[00:37] <Shaba1> or the "/Media/Cdrive" part?
[00:37] <zoredache> homebrewcider: I know that sometimes it will look at the fstab if you dont' provide enough options.  I have never cared enough to look it up
[00:37] <homebrewcider> ok, cheers, I'm off then, thanks
[00:37] <zoredache> Shaba1: with thunar open click the go menu then open location
[00:37] <sloopy> click on 'filesystem' on left then click on Media folder on right
[00:38] <sloopy> i am still not overly exp with GUIs ;')
[00:38] <Shaba1> ok sloopy dont that
[00:38] <Shaba1> now what
[00:38] <Shaba1> ?
[00:38] <sloopy> Cdrive should be a folder on right side now
[00:39] <Shaba1> Ok that got it
[00:39] <Shaba1> I just dragged it there
[00:40] <Shaba1> Ok how do I get that icon to show up on the desktop also?
[00:40] <Shaba1> instead of having to open thunar every time
[00:41] <Shaba1> never mind
[00:41] <Shaba1> I got it done
[00:42] <Shaba1> Ok thanks
[00:42] <Shaba1> well now
[00:42] <sloopy> np
[00:42] <Shaba1> that helps a lot
[00:42] <Shaba1> now does anyone have any Idea how I can get vino-server to start up automagically?
[00:43] <Shaba1> Never mind answering that
[00:43] <Shaba1> I have to run down the the laundry
[00:43] <Shaba1> brb
[00:43] <sloopy> yes but i dont know how to do it the proper 'ubuntu' way ;')
[00:45] <sloopy> you can check  applications>system>services to see if it listed and check it there
[01:02] <Nicekiwi9> hiysa
[01:02] <Nicekiwi9> howdo i setup a system proxy in xubuntu 8.04?
[01:05] <proprietarysucks> anyone know how to install kplayer on xubuntu?
[01:05] <zoredache> Nicekiwi9: I don't believe there really is a system proxy... what are you trying to run that needs it?
[01:06] <Nicekiwi9> Steam
[01:06] <Nicekiwi9> and Firefox is oddly refuseing my proxy too... tho im nto sure if thats related or not
[01:07] <Nicekiwi9> someone here yesturday told me to do "export proxy_somthing http://etc:8080
[01:07] <Nicekiwi9> but they dident say where or how
[01:07] <zoredache> with vlc I usually us a command like 'export http_proxy=http://localhost:9999/ ; vlc'
[01:07] <zoredache> you create a script, or launcher that does that
[01:08] <Nicekiwi9> cant i set one up for the enviroment? or somthing so all programs will run off it?
[01:08] <Nicekiwi9> somthing to do with the /etc/enviroment file
[01:08] <zoredache> Nicekiwi9: yes, it almost certainly can be done... I haven't cared/need to know enough to find out
[01:09] <Nicekiwi9> but in the dcase of steam? running through crossover games.....
[01:09] <zoredache> It seems like crossover would have to have something
[01:10] <Nicekiwi9> which it dosent =(
[01:10] <zoredache> are you sure steam will even use a proxy?  I didn't thing it was http based
[01:10] <Nicekiwi9> it is strangly enough....
[01:10] <Nicekiwi9> it works on ubuntu with the system proxy enabled.....
[01:11] <Nicekiwi9> =S
[01:13] <Nicekiwi9> how do i edit a readonly file via terminal?
[01:13] <Nicekiwi9> or through anything
[01:13] <zoredache> usually it is read-only because it is owned by root and you don't have permissions
[01:13] <Nicekiwi9> how do i give myself permission?
[01:14] <Nicekiwi9> i know in ubuntu i could go "sudo gedit etc"
[01:14] <zoredache> the *buntu was is usually to use sudo/gksu start a program with permission.  In this case you would use sudo editor blah
[01:14] <Nicekiwi9> but gedit isent here
[01:14] <zoredache> mousepad is the default gui editor
[01:14] <zoredache> nano or vi are available if you like/want a text mode editor
[01:17] <Nicekiwi9> hmm ok...
[01:17] <Nicekiwi9> can u think of any reason y my proxy would be flattly refusing connection to my Xbuntu box
[01:17] <Nicekiwi9> in firfox
[01:17] <Nicekiwi9> the correct seetings r set and it was working last night....
[01:18] <Nicekiwi9> i was messing with the export proxy_http command which wasent working and i shutdown...
[01:18] <Nicekiwi9> now the proxy bluntly wont connect
[01:18] <zoredache> can you telnet to the proxy?  'telnet host port'
[01:19] <zoredache> if you get connected you should be able to type a command like 'get /' followed by <enter> and you'll get an error
[01:19] <Nicekiwi9> nope :S
[01:20] <zoredache> if you can't telnet do it, that seems like it would indicate you either don't have any connectivity (check cables, ping, etc), or you have firewalled yourself out
[01:21] <Nicekiwi9> :S
[01:22]  * Nicekiwi9 cries
[01:22] <Nicekiwi9> thnkx for ur help
[01:23] <Shaba1> Ok back
[01:23] <Shaba1> sloopy
[01:23] <Shaba1> Its not in services
[01:23] <Shaba1> I was trying to find out how I could put it there
[01:28] <proprietarysucks> do I have to build kplayer from source?
[01:28] <Nicekiwi9> how do i clear any proxy settings enabled on the system
[01:29] <sloopy> Shaba1, yeah i dont know the ubuntu way to do it... (in fedora you would use chkconfig but debian/ubuntu doesnt have that)
[01:30] <TheSheep> you can install sysv-rc-conf...
[01:30] <Shaba1> You know this is the first time I have ever seen anyone chatting in this channel
[01:30] <Shaba1> at least i know its not dead
[01:30] <TheSheep> that's because it's #xubuntu-offtopic that's for chatting
[01:31] <proprietarysucks> do I have to build kplayer from source? kplayer is the best video player I've ever seen on linux, shame to see it not being included
[01:32] <TheSheep> !info kplayer | proprietarysucks
[01:32] <TheSheep> hmm.. it's there in Intrepid
[01:33] <proprietarysucks> not sure what that means
[01:33] <TheSheep> !intrepid
[01:33] <proprietarysucks> so in other words yes I must build it from source
[01:33] <proprietarysucks> thanks
[01:34] <TheSheep> proprietarysucks: you could try installing the package from debian, it works sometimes
[01:34] <TheSheep> proprietarysucks: or check getdeb.net
[01:34] <proprietarysucks> not there
[01:35] <zoredache> you could try getting the intrepid source package and backporting it...
[01:37] <proprietarysucks> how do you guys exist with no kplayer
[01:37] <proprietarysucks> also where can I look for this source
[01:38] <TheSheep> proprietarysucks: packages.ubuntu.com
[01:38] <proprietarysucks> man that's cool they must finally be getting away from the 7-year old mentality names for the distros
[01:38] <proprietarysucks> and on to the car names.. better at least
[01:39] <proprietarysucks> thanks, I see it
[01:40] <proprietarysucks> whew!
[01:40] <proprietarysucks> 192MB will be installed
[01:40] <sloopy> Shaba1, people talk on and off 24hours a day here...
[01:41] <proprietarysucks> which is funny since it's 2331kb package
[01:41] <proprietarysucks> oh well it's worth it, bombs away
[01:41] <TheSheep> proprietarysucks: it probably has to install half of the kde
[01:41] <sloopy> my scroll back on has 8 hours in it...
[01:41] <Shaba1> Every time I have come in for the last three weeks there have been 10-40 nick in the room but no on talking
[01:41] <proprietarysucks> 56 packages whew
[01:41] <TheSheep> Shaba1: you have to ask the question :)
[01:41] <proprietarysucks> well I'm talking now so be happy =D
[01:41] <sloopy> try going to #Linux-M68k my scroll back could contain weeks of chat... ;')
[01:42] <TheSheep> Shaba1: not to mention #linux-z80
[01:43] <sloopy> TheSheep, i am an op in LM68k channel, so i am more familiar with it...
[01:43] <Shaba1> z80
[01:43] <Shaba1> that is and old 8 bit chip
[01:43] <Shaba1> ??
[01:43] <sloopy> yes it is
[01:43] <Shaba1> I remember programming for those back in the early 80s
[01:44] <TheSheep> neat instruction set they had :)
[01:44] <sloopy> i was more a 6502/68k person
[01:45] <Shaba1> That was my next step up
[01:45] <Shaba1> that 6210
[01:45] <sloopy> heh i just looked it up, my nick has been reg'd for over 6 years on freenode/OPN
[01:45] <Shaba1> sorry
[01:45] <Shaba1> 6510
[01:45] <sloopy> 6510?!??! commodore 64 user?
[01:45]  * TheSheep jumped to 80086 right away
[01:45] <Nicekiwi9> how do i add a program to the startup
[01:46] <proprietarysucks> yes! kplayer finally
[01:46] <proprietarysucks> thanks for the tips about 8.10
[01:46] <TheSheep> Nicekiwi9: settings->setting manager->autostarted applications
[01:46] <TheSheep> proprietarysucks: beware of beta software
[01:46] <proprietarysucks> hmm I wonder what will happen if I do a system wide update
[01:46] <proprietarysucks> hahaha... wish me luck
[01:47] <sloopy> i only started using x86 as my main machine 2 years ago
[01:47] <proprietarysucks> with the intrepid repo enabled
[01:47] <TheSheep> proprietarysucks: I did last week and I'm still alive
[01:47] <TheSheep> proprietarysucks: although ff crashes when I select 'save as' :)
[01:47] <proprietarysucks> firefox has a save as? why
[01:48] <Shaba1> Ok off topic question/opinion poll
[01:48] <proprietarysucks> man 697 packages
[01:48] <sloopy> to save the awesome pron you find ;')
[01:48] <TheSheep> proprietarysucks: so that you can save a web page, style, image, etc.
[01:48] <proprietarysucks> lucky I'm at work getting over 800kbs
[01:48] <Shaba1> Has anyone ever downloaded a program where the was a general desciption of what it does on the web page
[01:48] <sloopy> proprietarysucks, not in the US or dont have broadband at home?
[01:48] <TheSheep> proprietarysucks: more breakage expected until october though
[01:48] <Shaba1> but NO instruction on how to do it either on the page or with the program.
[01:49] <Shaba1> like you get a set of  menus and thats it.
[01:49] <TheSheep> Shaba1: that's pretty common with opensource...
[01:49] <sloopy> Shaba1, often
[01:49] <proprietarysucks> you don't get solid 800kbs at home in us
[01:49] <Shaba1> It suck
[01:49] <proprietarysucks> unless you have fios or something
[01:49] <Shaba1> I mean I do not expect like a thousand page manual
[01:50] <Shaba1> but some kinda start here page or something
[01:50] <sloopy> nope i have cable, and it runs flawlessly (yes i know i am one of the few ;')
[01:50] <TheSheep> Shaba1: usually someone wrote it for himself and just shared
[01:50] <proprietarysucks> hey xubuntu people, the help does nothing at all in the remote desktop viewer
[01:50] <proprietarysucks> fyi, kthnxbye
[01:50] <TheSheep> proprietarysucks: you need yelp installed
[01:50] <TheSheep> proprietarysucks: it's a known problem
[01:50] <proprietarysucks> ok thanks
[01:50] <Shaba1> Sheep I know that
[01:50] <proprietarysucks> glad it will be fixed
[01:51] <Shaba1> but damn its not like we can read the programmers mind.
[01:51] <TheSheep> proprietarysucks: it can take several years until a version of yelp for xfce is made :)
[01:51] <sloopy> use the source, its better then docs ;')
[01:51] <TheSheep> proprietarysucks: I tried to make one once, but failed
[01:51] <proprietarysucks> Shaba1: what program?
[01:51] <proprietarysucks> TheSheep: can they remove the help > contents menu item then?
[01:52] <proprietarysucks> pretty stupid to have a menu item which does nothing
[01:52] <proprietarysucks> extra bulk
[01:52] <Shaba1> Well the most recent on is something called the Xdebuggerclient
[01:52] <TheSheep> !bugs | proprietarysucks
[01:52] <proprietarysucks> google doesn't find that program, maybe you are spelling it wrong?
[01:52] <proprietarysucks> I don't create accounts to report bugs
[01:53] <proprietarysucks> too many distros sorry
[01:53] <Shaba1> Oh proprietarysucks I was not asking for help with it at all
[01:54] <Shaba1> it just still amazes me after all these year using computers that programmers still think that users can read thier minds and intentions
[01:54] <proprietarysucks> it doesn't exist so I'm glad about that
[01:54] <proprietarysucks> hard to find help on imaginary packages
[01:54] <Shaba1> Oh I was not asking for help at all
[01:55] <Shaba1> just making a comment.
[01:55] <proprietarysucks> I know that, I read your comments
[01:55] <proprietarysucks> but I want an example
[01:55] <proprietarysucks> and the one you gave me is imaginary
[01:56] <proprietarysucks> you know what else is freaking annoying, when commands have different than standard syntax
[01:56] <proprietarysucks> or don't just use stdin/stdout/stderr
[01:56] <Shaba1> and its at this address if you really want to see it
[01:56] <Shaba1> http://code.google.com/p/xdebugclient/
[01:56] <proprietarysucks> gah that's annoying
[01:57] <sloopy> Shaba1, your work has been cut out for you... be the champion of open source project documentation! make docs where none exist, translate into x^16 laguanges and be an all around good user ;'D
[01:57] <proprietarysucks> uh-oh, E: base-passwd: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 9
[01:57] <Shaba1> yeah right
[01:58] <proprietarysucks> si correcto
[01:58] <Shaba1> I am just trying to eat from day to day right now sloopy
[01:58] <proprietarysucks> you're almost there
[01:58] <sloopy> eating is overated...
[01:58] <Shaba1> Which is beginning to be a struggle
[01:58] <proprietarysucks> in synaptic how can you just view the possible upgrades, for single selecting
[01:59] <sloopy> i used to buy food when i was hungry and didnt have and food...
[01:59] <proprietarysucks> <--is used to yumex
[01:59] <sloopy> yumes?
[01:59] <sloopy> err yumex?
[01:59] <proprietarysucks> yeah I've been using yumex for a long time, not used to synaptic package manager yet
[01:59] <proprietarysucks> how can I see the upgrades available?
[02:00] <sloopy> hmmm yum... looks familiar...
[02:00] <proprietarysucks> I see only 'mark all upgrades'
[02:00] <proprietarysucks> i want to mark SOME upgrades =]
[02:00] <sloopy> i have used yum... and yup before that
[04:25] <mortal1> does anyone here use vuze?
[04:26] <mortal1> i can't get it to start on xub after switching to classic interface
[04:26] <mortal1> it's the wierdest thing
[04:29] <mortal1> anyone?
[04:30]  * totalwormage doesn't :]
[04:30] <totalwormage> sorry
[04:35] <mortal1> now that's interesting
[04:36] <mortal1> the latest vuze client doesn't work, but go back one release and it works
[04:58] <T045T> good night everyone (: just wanted to ask how well xubuntu can/will run with 64MB of RAM, if at all...
[04:59] <totalwormage> !requirements
[04:59] <totalwormage> :D
[04:59] <totalwormage> it will run, but slow :P
[05:00] <T045T> okay... lots of swap space won't change that much, right?
[05:00] <T045T> (on an IDE hard drive, nothing fancy)
[05:00] <totalwormage> i guess not
[05:03] <T045T> oh, I just remembered that 8 or 16 MB of that are gonna be shared VRAM ):
[05:06] <mortal1> T045T: with that ammount of ram, your best bet would be debian or slackware, and fluxbox
[05:06] <mortal1> I had a custom built slackware install that only used 30mb of ram logged in
[05:06] <mortal1> it was pretty tight
[05:07] <mortal1> err I should say, that was running fluxbox, nothing else at the time
[05:07] <totalwormage> hehehe
[05:07] <mortal1> firefox will still be slow
[05:07] <T045T> mortal1: I'm burning the fluxbuntu iso right now... any experience with that?
[05:08] <mortal1> flubuntu looked unsupported the last i saw
[05:08] <T045T> yeah, it does... their last release was a loong time ago
[05:09] <mortal1> T045T: your best bet if you want buntu is to install xub and then install fluxbox
[05:10] <T045T> I probably could do debian, but I'm more of a "casual" linux user, I guess... so I don't know how well that would work out
[05:12] <mortal1> like i said, dl xub and install fluxbox and use that
[05:12] <T045T> plus, the hardware I'm working with is very unreliable... I don't even know if the CD drive is working correctly... keeps giving me read errors for no good reason (I burnt the disc twice, and only on 8x this second time)
[05:12] <mortal1> ah! let me guess 8.04?
[05:13] <T045T> nope, fluxbuntu 7.10
[05:13] <mortal1> oh
[05:13] <mortal1> nvm
[05:13] <mortal1> aight, to bed i go
[05:13] <mortal1> night
[05:13] <T045T> night
[06:38] <chasman> What does it mean to be official in this application?  Can I get help with mysql on xubuntu here or must I go elsewhere?
[06:41] <cody-somerville> chasman, hi
[06:42] <cody-somerville> chasman, This might not be the best place to ask for mysql help but if you ask and someone knows the answer then they'll respond
[07:52] <chasman> Thank you cody-somerville.   I have been working for hours on this error.  I have no trouble on windoz but It seems lot have the same issue on *nix.  I am going to try a fresh linux distribution.  thank you for your kind words.
[13:14] <cody-somerville> TheSheep, ping
[13:14] <TheSheep> hey
[13:15] <cody-somerville> TheSheep, you suffer from bug #232364 right?
[13:16] <TheSheep> cody-somerville: not anymore
[13:16] <cody-somerville> TheSheep, why?
[13:16]  * TheSheep <-- Intrepid
[13:17] <TheSheep> didn't you work around it?
[13:19] <cody-somerville> TheSheep, So are you saying you installed the package from -proposed?
[13:20] <TheSheep> yeah, I have proposed enabled in my repo list
[13:20] <TheSheep> and I'm doing regular updates
[13:21] <cody-somerville> TheSheep, Please report your success as a comment on bug #232364
[13:21] <cody-somerville> Say you that before the update you were experiencing the problem but after the update you no longer experience it
[13:21] <TheSheep> cody-somerville: when did you actually made the fix available, btw?
[13:22] <TheSheep> cody-somerville: because the bug seems to be gone since several weeks
[13:22] <cody-somerville> It was accepted June 30th
[13:23] <cody-somerville> Did you maybe make the changes yourself?
[13:23] <TheSheep> no
[13:23] <Volkodav> Is there a 64 bit opera on their site?
[13:23] <TheSheep> Volkodav: no
[13:23] <TheSheep> Volkodav: the yare too lazy to make a 64-bit version
[13:23] <Volkodav> there must be reps somewhere
[13:24] <TheSheep> same ith Adobe and other lazy bums
[13:24] <cody-somerville> TheSheep, Can you pastebin your /etc/xdg/xfce4/xinitrc ?
[13:24] <Volkodav> I have beta 2 9.5 running 64 bit
[13:24] <TheSheep> Volkodav: there is no 64bit opera, period.
[13:24] <TheSheep> Volkodav: it's possible to run 32bit opera on 64bit
[13:24] <Volkodav> Version
[13:24] <Volkodav> 9.50 Beta 2
[13:24] <Volkodav> Build
[13:24] <Volkodav> 1800
[13:24] <Volkodav> Platform
[13:24] <Volkodav> Linux
[13:24] <Volkodav> System
[13:24] <Volkodav> x86_64, 2.6.24-19-generic
[13:24] <Volkodav> Qt library
[13:24] <Volkodav> 3.3.8b\
[13:25] <Volkodav> too long paste sorry
[13:26] <TheSheep> Volkodav: so it seems they made it finally?
[13:26] <TheSheep> Volkodav: that's great news, sorry for confusion
[13:26] <Volkodav> I have been running it for a while
[13:26] <Volkodav> I'll find the link
[13:26] <TheSheep> Volkodav: maybe you could add the link to the howto on opera on the wiki
[13:27] <Volkodav> I might if I find 9.5
[13:27] <Volkodav> if not I can put the beta 64 that I use
[13:27] <TheSheep> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OperaBrowser
[13:27] <TheSheep> hmm... there is a link already, cool
[13:30] <TheSheep> cody-somerville: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/78351/
[13:32] <lks> anyone know how to get screensaver to work? thx
[13:40] <gnomefreak> cody-somerville: TheSheep does xubuntu use PA by default?
[13:43] <gnomefreak> PA == pulse audio
[13:43] <|THoM|> I have the following question: I have a laptop with Vista on the HDD. I also have an external USB HDD for backup. I want to get the choice at booting between both OS's. When installing Xubuntu, it chooses the external USB HDD. Can I just choose the size of the partition, and than everything works without losing the files that are allready on the external USB HDD?
[13:55] <cody-somerville> lks, Yes :)
[13:55] <cody-somerville> lks, It is a bug in Hardy which I've prepared a fix for and am working on getting an SRU done.
[13:55] <cody-somerville> lks, bug #220899
[13:55] <cody-somerville> TheSheep, Okay so you are using the -proposed version. Please report success on the bug
[13:55] <lks> cody-somerville: thx for the info
[13:56] <cody-somerville> lks, This *should* fix it for you: Click sessions at login and select xfce4 and then login
[13:57] <lks> cody-somerville: does that mean it'll be done thru one of them system update?
[13:57] <cody-somerville> lks, eventually, yes.
[13:57] <lks> cody-somerville: alright, i'll try what've u told me there...cheers
[13:58] <cody-somerville> lks, before you go
[13:59] <lks> cody-somerville: anything else
[13:59] <cody-somerville> lks, if it *doesn't* work, look at .dmrc in your home directory
[14:00] <cody-somerville> lks, It should read: Session=xfce4
[14:00] <cody-somerville> Instead of: Session=default
[14:00] <cody-somerville> "[Desktop]" should be on the line above that
[14:01] <lks> cody-somerville: is not ...so i should change it to xfce4?
[14:02] <cody-somerville> lks, It should do that when you logout, click session and then xfce4, and then login
[14:02] <lks> cody-somerville: cool...nice one
[14:05] <cody-somerville> TheSheep, please :P
[14:09] <lks> cody-someville: worked like a treat...;)..lovely jubbly mate
[14:12] <cody-somerville> lks, thanks.
[14:13] <cody-somerville> Can you post your success on bug #220899?
[14:14] <lks> cody-somerville: how do u go about that...i just go the site n write what just happened
[14:14] <cody-somerville> lks, Yes, make a comment on the bug.
[14:14] <cody-somerville> Say that you simulated the affect of my upload to -proposed and that it was successful
[14:15] <lks> cody-somerville: i
[14:15] <cody-somerville> lks, Infact, if you just explain the steps you took I can make a comment explaining :)
[14:17] <lks> cody-somerville: i'll try...cos i am a bit of a novice and gotten a bit confused once there
[14:17] <cody-somerville> lks, Okay. can you send me a quick e-mail (cody-somerville@ubuntu.com) stating what I asked of you and I'll get back to you with detailed instructions
[14:17] <cody-somerville> I gotta jet for now :)
[14:17] <cody-somerville> lks, thanks for helping out :)
[14:18] <lks> cody-somerville : good day...i'll post something regardless
[14:22] <cody-somerville> TheSheep, you commented on the wrong bug ;]
[14:22] <cody-somerville> TheSheep, you want bug #232364
[14:22] <TheSheep> cody-somerville: how so?
[14:22] <TheSheep> arrgh
[14:24] <TheSheep> I suppose I cannot undo it?
[14:25] <cody-somerville> TheSheep, don't worry about it
[14:44] <cody-somerville> TheSheep, just make sure to comment on right bug :P
[16:40] <moj1> hello
[16:40] <moj1> i need help with my wubi installer
[16:41] <TheSheep> moj1: you need to ask a question :)
[16:41] <moj1> yep
[16:42] <moj1> i have wubi 7.04 because 8.04 wubi gives me and error message
[16:42] <moj1> with not enough ram
[16:42] <moj1> so  i ran 7.04
[16:42] <moj1> and it installed xubuntu but when the installer was finished i got a blackscreen
[16:42] <moj1> so then i powered my computer off
[16:43] <moj1> and then i get  an invalid boot.ini message
[16:43] <moj1> any idea why
[16:43] <moj1> ?
[16:44] <TheSheep> no idea
[16:44] <TheSheep> now you can't boot at all?
[16:45] <moj1> nope
[16:46] <TheSheep> try booting the livecd and looking at the contents of that boot.ini file, maybe it's something easy to fix...
[16:46] <moj1> every time i start the computer i get a loop of this message and the IBM symobol
[16:46] <moj1> im running it on a laptop with no cd drive
[16:46] <moj1> and i cannot acces anything anymore not even windows
[16:48] <TheSheep> hmm... you have a pendrive?
[16:48] <moj1> yep but my computer cannot boot from it
[16:49] <TheSheep> moj1: can it boot from network?
[16:50] <TheSheep> moj1: this page has a number of ways you can boot ubuntu:
[16:50] <TheSheep> !install | moj1
[16:50] <moj1> yeah there is that option
[16:50] <TheSheep> moj1: maybe one of these ways will work
[16:51] <TheSheep> once you have any system running, you can look at the boot.ini file to see what is wrong
[16:51] <moj1> kk il; give them a try thanks
[16:51] <moj1> kk
[16:53] <moj1> but i dont have a floppy drive
[17:01] <moj1> it will not let me boot into windows either ... i really need some help
[17:02] <zoredache> moj1: if you can't boot from a cd, floppy, or usb drive and you don't have the infrastructure to net boot then you are pretty much SOL
[17:02] <moj1> sol?
[17:03] <zoredache> sh** out of luck
[17:03] <moj1> haha well thanks
[17:03] <zoredache> up a creek with out a padel... etc...  As in a hopeless situation... :|
[17:03] <moj1> it gives me the network
[17:03] <moj1> option
[17:04] <moj1> i just need to buy a floppy drive then
[17:04] <moj1> or a cd
[17:04] <moj1> drive
[17:04] <moj1> or will that not work
[17:05] <zoredache> if you don't care about using windows anymore you could pull the drive out and put it in another computer. There a file you can DD to the start of the hard drive that will boot up the alt installer
[17:05] <zoredache> but doing that will remove everything
[17:07] <moj1> i dont want windows
[17:08] <moj1> so how would i do this
[17:08] <moj1> just put it in another comp
[17:08] <moj1> and
[17:08] <moj1> then
[17:08] <DaveKong> I would say it is easier to get a CD drive
[17:08] <DaveKong> they are dirt cheap these days
[17:09] <moj1> ok
[17:09] <moj1> but it cannot be usb
[17:09] <moj1> right
[17:09] <moj1> because my laptop
[17:09] <moj1> did have a cd drive but it fell out
[17:09] <moj1> haha
[17:09] <moj1> so we didnt bother
[17:10] <DaveKong> If you can enter your bios then you can see all the things your laptop can boot from and set it to whichever
[17:11] <DaveKong> I would say do this as simply and cheaply as possible
[17:11] <DaveKong> CDs are the easiest if you that works
[17:12] <zoredache> moj1: to do it from another computer basically you need to download http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy/main/installer-i386/current/images/hd-media/boot.img.gz then zcat it to the hard drive (zcat file > /dev/hda
[17:12] <moj1> ok
[17:12] <moj1> im am very new to all of this
[17:12] <moj1> so how do u zcat
[17:13] <moj1> and it has to be from another laptop right?
[17:13] <moj1> Davekong: oi entered my system bios and if i got a usb c
[17:13] <moj1> *cd drive
[17:13] <moj1> would it show up
[17:14] <zoredache> if you are very new it would be far better to just go buy hardware...  The method of installing probably is an expert-only method
[17:15] <DaveKong> moj1:  If you have usb there should be a usb port on your computer... if you can boot from usb then in your bios list there should be boot options and a list of choices with numbers next to them saying what order to boot
[17:15] <slimjimflim> anybody know what the kernel source directory is?
[17:15] <slimjimflim> gusty
[17:15] <slimjimflim> gutsy
[17:16] <zoredache>  /usr/src/kernel-source-nnnn
[17:16] <moj1> would that be my removable disks
[17:16] <zoredache> that is if you install the kernel source package anyway
[17:17] <slimjimflim> zoredache, i can install that any time right?
[17:17] <zoredache> yes... 'sudo apt-get install linux-source' is the package name if you where on hardy.  I don't think it changed
[17:18] <DaveKong> I am trying to go into bios on my laptop to get an idea as to what the list items may be called
[17:18] <DaveKong> give me a sec
[17:19] <DaveKong> got it..
[17:19] <moj1> kk
[17:20] <DaveKong> well my laptop has a menu going across the top and boot is one of the items
[17:20] <DaveKong> this desktop it has a vertical coloumn and I believe boot is also a category of it's own
[17:21] <moj1> yeah i think im going to buy a cd rom drive
[17:21] <DaveKong> then there is a list with floppy devices cd-rom hard drive and onboardnic
[17:21] <moj1> its only 10 bucks
[17:21] <slimjimflim> at least get a dvd drive...also 10 bucks
[17:21] <DaveKong> Did you find the list?
[17:22] <slimjimflim> i think internal dl dvd-rw drives are less than $50
[17:24] <slimjimflim> davekong, what are you trying to do exactly?
[17:25] <DaveKong> slimjimflim moj1 is unable to load his OS and he wants to boot and install xubuntu( I believe) onto his computer
[17:25] <slimjimflim> figured
[17:26] <slimjimflim> so it's just on the cd so far?
[17:26] <slimjimflim> not on an hdd?
[17:27] <DaveKong> he actually says above that he installed xubuntu and got an ini error
[17:28] <slimjimflim> during the install?
[17:28] <DaveKong> moj1:  you still there?
[17:28] <moj1> yeah
[17:28] <moj1> sorry
[17:28] <DaveKong> after the install when he restarted
[17:29] <moj1> yeah
[17:29] <moj1> so i installed it with wubi
[17:29] <moj1> and
[17:29] <moj1> then it gave me a black screen
[17:29] <moj1> and then i powered it off
[17:29] <moj1> and then i had a loop of it saying invalid boot.ini
[17:29] <moj1> and then the IBM sympol
[17:29] <moj1> *sympbol
[17:29] <moj1> **symbol
[17:29] <moj1> haha
[17:30] <DaveKong> Did grub load?
[17:30] <moj1> and i cannot access windows
[17:30] <moj1> what is grub
[17:30] <moj1> no
[17:31] <moj1> i just ran wubi
[17:31] <moj1> twice
[17:32] <DaveKong> grub is the OS loader
[17:32] <moj1> k
[17:32] <slimjimflim> oh god, sounds you've got your hands full, davekong
[17:32] <slimjimflim> i'd stay and help, but i'm getting called in to work
[17:32] <DaveKong> cya slim
[17:32] <moj1> cya
[17:33] <DaveKong> moj1 alright so I got a list of things I think you should do
[17:33] <DaveKong> first off
[17:33] <darcy> Hi there, I'm brand new to LINUX and I can't seem to get my computer to network with my wife's Windows XP computer? Any ideas?
[17:33] <DaveKong> if you want to get rid of windows do you have all your important files backed up already?
[17:33] <moj1> yeah
[17:33] <DaveKong> darcy:  read about samba that is the most i know
[17:34] <darcy> what is samba
[17:34] <DaveKong> lets you network with other OSes
[17:34] <DaveKong> go to the ubuntu forums and search for it
[17:35] <DaveKong> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samba_(software)
[17:35] <shane__> ok darcy ill be back in 45 if yah need any more help k
[17:35] <darcy> thanks DaveKong
[17:35] <DaveKong> yw
[17:36] <moj1> yeah
[17:36] <DaveKong> moj1: Alright now if you can boot from CD-rom and you are willing to invest in one or get your old one working I would say do that
[17:36] <zoredache> darcy: can you be a bit more specific about what you mean by 'network'?  are you wanting to access files, serve files, or do something else
[17:36] <moj1> ok is there any way of not using a cd rom
[17:37] <DaveKong> moj1:  If you can boot from USB then I would say that is your second best choice but is a little more advanced
[17:37] <moj1> yeah i tried that
[17:37] <moj1> but
[17:37] <moj1> my laptop does not support it
[17:37] <moj1> it wont read the usb device
[17:37] <darcy> I want to access files from my wife's computer which is XP and use them, alter them, etc.
[17:37] <DaveKong> moj1: you also have the floppy option
[17:38] <moj1> yeah but i need to get a floppy drive then
[17:38] <moj1> do
[17:38] <moj1> *so
[17:38] <moj1> ill probably get the cd drive looks like it will be handy later anyways
[17:38] <zoredache> darcy: if you only need to access files you only need fusesmb or smbfs...  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FuseSmb
[17:39] <moj1> i was reading
[17:39] <DaveKong> moj1:  it will make it easier if you want to try a few different boot discs as well
[17:39] <moj1> ok but can u hook ur laptop up to your computer
[17:39] <moj1> and install linux that way
[17:40] <moj1> i read it online but it looked complicated
[17:40] <DaveKong> yea well that is why I was saying go with a CD
[17:40] <DaveKong> it is the simplest way
[17:40] <moj1> kk but is there the way of hooking it up
[17:41] <DaveKong> If you don't have the user manual for your computer you should look it up online
[17:41] <DaveKong> and see what you can install in it and how
[17:41] <DaveKong> laptops are more tricky than desktops
[17:41] <zoredache> moj1: yes there are many many ways to connect things and install, but of them are very complex and not well documented...
[17:43] <moj1> ok
[17:43] <moj1> i will just get the cd drive
[17:43] <moj1> thanks guys
[17:43] <moj1> cya
[17:43] <DaveKong> good luck cya
[17:47] <vehystrix>  is there any way I can have my computer send a keystroke (space, followed by a left mouseclick) to an application every minute?
[17:48] <TheSheep> vehystrix: generally yes, althhough it's not trivial, there might be an esier way to do that
[17:49] <TheSheep> I mean to do what you're trying to achieve
[17:49] <vehystrix> how so?
[17:49] <zoredache> why do you need to do a space and click once a minute?
[17:49] <TheSheep> no idea, because I don't know what's n your mind :)
[17:51] <vehystrix> internet form, I need to submit it approx once a minute, so the space will scroll the page down, with the mouce placed at the right position so it will come to hover over the right button, and then it will left click, submitting the form and reloding the page, after which the process can start over again
[17:52] <zoredache> vehystrix: are you sure it isn't something that can be done with a browser script (see greesemonkey) or curl
[17:52] <vehystrix> I don't know any of those things...
[17:53] <vehystrix> In windows I could set up a schedule to send them keystrokes, but here it seems not possible
[17:53] <zoredache> greasemonkey is a  plugin for mozilla based browser that lets you run javascrip that you write on every page load
[17:54] <vehystrix> and how would javascript submit that form after one minute?
[17:55] <zoredache> I am not going to write it for you... but there is a timer event in javascript that you can wait for a period of time then call a function
[17:56] <vehystrix> timout function right?
[17:56] <vehystrix> I know some javascript, but I wouldn't know how it can submit a form...
[17:57] <zoredache> just get a handle to the form. then call its submit method
[17:58] <vehystrix> hmm
[17:58] <zoredache> vehystrix: and the timeout is 'setTimeout'
[17:58] <vehystrix> I think I'll be trying that...
[18:00] <zoredache> just look on the greasemonkey site... there are thousands of users scripts that you can copy and paste from...  I would be very surprised if you couldn't find one close to what you want if you spend some time looking
[18:00] <vehystrix> I didn't even think of that...
[18:00] <zoredache> vehystrix: http://www.greasespot.net/
[18:01] <zoredache> vehystrix: rule #1 of pragmatic programming.  always steal from someone else before inventing something yourself
[18:01] <vehystrix> hah
[18:02] <vehystrix> another question: Firefox sometimes hangs, and after some time, it'll just continue as if nothing happened, any idea how this could happen?
[18:04] <zoredache> buggy add-ons (re flash) is the cause of 95% of the issues I see in firefox.  I tend to run with the 'flashblock'... But it could also be a slow web server, badly written javascript, or many other things
[18:06] <vehystrix> the thing is, it only hangs here, if I go to the exact same sites with the same addons, and even more of them, but on windows, it's all fine
[18:06] <vehystrix> also, could this be because it's FF3?
[18:26] <Shaba1> Hello anyone at the keys
[18:27] <zoredache> !anyone | Shaba1
[18:28] <darcy> How do you get networking between two household computers to work. I have tried installing samba and fuse but have not been able to get them to work.
[18:29] <Shaba1> both ubuntu?
[18:29] <zoredache> darcy: can you tell me more about step you had problems with for fuse?
[18:29] <Shaba1> or xubuntu
[18:34] <darcy> With Fuse, I went to the Synaptic Package Manager and had it install Fuse, then the window jsut disapears. The same thing happened with samba. I don't seem to be able to find it to "activate it" or "turn it on".
[18:35] <darcy> I'm used to Windows XP where I just share my drive with full permissions and state the network is MS Home, then I'm done.
[18:36] <zoredache> darcy: did you read that link I gave you?
[18:36] <zoredache> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FuseSmb
[18:37] <Shaba1> not to be sarcastic but welcome to the wonderful world of linux darcy
[18:37] <Myrtti> are both of the computers Linux?
[18:38] <darcy> My laptop is Linux and the other computer is Windows XP.
[18:38] <darcy> zoredache: I have read the website and gone to the link in it.
[18:39] <darcy> When I download the stable release, what do I do with it?
[18:39] <zoredache> sorry?  I don't see anything in those instructions telling you to download something
[18:40] <Shaba1> Same setup here darcy
[18:40] <Shaba1> what are you specifically trying to do?
[18:41] <darcy> Sorry my mistake
[18:41] <darcy> I read part, but not all.
[18:41] <darcy> One sec.
[18:44] <darcy> the site that they list here shows up for only a little and then changes to another utuntu site :https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages?action=show&redirect=UniversePackages
[18:45] <zoredache> that isn't an instruction it is just an fyi thing...
[18:46] <zoredache> you should be probably be starting at the point 'now enter a terminal and type.....'
[18:47] <darcy> How do you enter a terminal?
[18:48] <shane__> darcy go to aplications
[18:48] <zoredache> applications->accessories->terminal
[18:49] <shane__> hey darc give me a call im at home now
[18:56] <shane__> hey as to darcy prob with network,could he not use the fish site connect
[18:56] <Shaba1> darcy what exactly are you trying to do
[18:56] <shane__> or can that be done with a microcrap computer
[18:58] <zoredache> fish?
[19:09] <shane__> yah it isthe openssh-serverclient through konqueror
[19:10] <shane__> im not sure if that can be done to a micrsoft system though
[19:11] <zoredache> windows does not have an ssh server built in...  And getting one working seems to either cost money, or be difficult
[19:14] <th0r> zoredache, openssh is available for windows and is no harder to install than openssh for linux
[19:16] <zoredache> th0r: oh?  can you point me to a windows binary that allows scp/sftp to work that is as easy to install as 'apt-get install openssh-server'?
[19:16] <th0r> zoredache, give me a sec
[19:17] <th0r> zoredache, http://sshwindows.sourceforge.net/
[19:17] <th0r> zoredache, but I have to tell you I have had little success with scp or sftp in either windows or linux.
[19:17] <th0r> zoredache, I find it much more dependable to do ftp through an ssh tunnel
[19:19] <zoredache> I have never had problems with sftp/scp...  Or the guis like gtk-ftp,winscp,filezilla.
[19:19] <th0r> zoredache, I never tried the gui's...was using scp and sftp from the linux cli or using winscp
[19:21] <zoredache> oh, as to that that sshwindows. Any suggestions that is a bit more recent?  There have been several security issues patched in ssh in the last 4 years.
[19:26] <th0r> zoredache, trying to determine the version I have installed...just a sec
[19:27] <th0r> zoredache, nope...that 3.8.1 is the one I have been using.
[19:29] <zoredache> yeah, and that concernce me...  Particularly if it is going to be an internet facing ssh server
[19:41] <kiadriver> Hi all, anyone know how to deal with the nm-applet password at login? Found thread referring to ubuntu but not working with xubuntu
[19:43] <th0r> kiadriver, you might try installing the gnome-keyring and making sure gnome services are started at login
[19:44] <kiadriver> th0r, installed libpam-gnome-keyring and added @include common-pamkeyring to gdm but got authentication error
[19:46] <kiadriver> passwords are the same for login and keyring
[19:49] <kiadriver> Another q - screen res is set to 1280x768, screen capable of 1280x800, not available in settings, have gone into xorg.conf to edit but ut's the barest xorg.conf I've ever seen, just refers to configured monitor. Any ideas of getting 1280x800?
[19:52] <kiadriver> Another q!  - wifi is rt2500 chipset, driver is rt2500pci, crap connection, sudo iwconfig wlan0 rate 54M sets it to a reasonable connection but I have to do it each login. Any way to get that command to run automatically on start?
[19:53] <zoredache> create a script in your home directory, and add it to your autostarted applications
[19:54] <zoredache> you would need to adjust the sudo config to not ask for a password when running iwconfig
[19:54] <vehystrix> wow, can't believe it actually worked... Thanks zoredache and TheSheep
[19:56] <kiadriver> Thanks, zoredache, it gives me a start to get it sorted!
[20:01] <lince> ﻿ hi is there any way to make windows open CENTERED?
[20:03] <zoredache> lince: I believe you can do with with devilspie
[20:03] <lince> LOL, so there is no native way to achieve this but only with KDE?
[20:06] <zoredache> I am not aware of any... xfce is aimed at being light-weight.  automatically positioning windows seems like something most people won't need
[20:57] <vehystrix> how do I get my mic to work with skype?
[21:00] <vehystrix> geen idee
[21:09] <th0r> vehystrix, open a terminal and run alsamixer. Make sure the mike is enabled and turned up
[21:12] <vehystrix> hmm, i tried that already...
[21:12] <vehystrix> google told me to install kmix, would this help?
[21:13] <th0r> vehystrix, if you are running kde, probably
[21:14] <vehystrix> I'm not running kde
[21:14] <th0r> vehystrix, I once had a problem with skype that required I turn off the auto level feature....where you tell skype to control the mike level automaticlly
[21:15] <vehystrix> oh
[21:15] <vehystrix> I tried the kde fix, and I was able to change the volume setting of the capture, which I was unable in the xfce mixer
[21:18] <vehystrix> it seems that actually did the trick
[21:18] <vehystrix> enable the capture and mic bypass in kmix
[21:18] <vehystrix> now I can change it in the xfce mixer as well
[21:18] <vehystrix> even after uninstalling kmix
[21:18] <vehystrix> o_O
[21:21] <gaurdro_> I've been trying to get some better info on that to file a bug somewhere with.  alsamix and the Xfce applet won't keep recording settings (always set volume to 0) until you use another mixer to set them
[21:23] <vehystrix> weird thing is that they work as they're supposed to after you used kmix once
[21:25] <th0r> vehystrix, might have something to do with kde. I installed xubuntu (xfce) and nothing else, and had no problems getting the mike to work with skype
[21:26] <vehystrix> I installed xubuntu as well, from the 8.04 live cd
[21:27] <vehystrix> no kde on the system
[21:29] <gaurdro_> basically it works after using any other mixer, not just kmix.  i'm a bit confused as to where to file a bug though.
[21:30] <vehystrix> ubuntu bugtracker?
[21:30] <vehystrix> or launchpad
[21:36] <gaurdro_> I'm not sure if i'd go with xubuntu, ubuntu or further upstream
[23:17] <arf`> hi
[23:18] <Genelyk> Hi
[23:19] <arf`> on a xubuntu hardy, the font in the menu bar are a bit crap only for firefox
[23:20] <arf`> it looks like the font is not anti-aliased/hinted/sub-pixeled
[23:24] <TheSheep> arf`: you have antialiasing enabled in user interface settings?
[23:25] <arf`> yeah
[23:25] <arf`> all other apps are cool
[23:25] <TheSheep> arf`: was it disabled at any time?
[23:25] <arf`> only firefox looks different
[23:25] <arf`> no
[23:26]  * TheSheep scratches his head
[23:26] <arf`> i changed the font parameters in .gconf, but no result
[23:26] <TheSheep> you could look for some settings about fonts in about:config in firefox
[23:26] <arf`> yeah, i tried this too (something.css)
[23:26] <TheSheep> firefox only pretends to look like it's native, it has its own rendering and display
[23:26] <arf`> it doesn't change
[23:27] <arf`> TheSheep: yeah, that's what i found on some ubuntu forums
[23:28] <arf`> at a time, I were thinking that the "system" opposite to native related to gnome
[23:28] <arf`> the reason why I configured the gnome fonts in same way I did for xfce4
[23:28] <arf`> but it doesn't work
[23:29] <TheSheep> it normally works on a fresh install... unless it's some strange fornt you are using
[23:29] <TheSheep> what font is it?
[23:29] <arf`> the default (sans)
[23:29] <arf`> link to dejavu I think
[23:29] <TheSheep> yeah
[23:30] <arf`> for what I searched, the problem is not so frequent, and it's not so easy to find something cause a lot of problems are with the web page fonts, not with the app fonts
[23:32] <TheSheep> in this case it's the menubar, so it's definitely the app font :)
[23:32] <arf`> the fact is it seems to be not really important, but at use it's annoying
[23:33] <arf`> I also were thinking that perhaps the problem exists for a lot of people, but appear just in some extrem conditions (ie small fonts)