[02:48] <bri-h> I'm having a problem with sound - everything  except adobe flash 10 seems to work.  I've done lots of searching and have found some info on problems in hardy but none of that has fixed my problem.  Is the sound setup different in intrepid?
[02:55] <bri-h> Maybe a better way to ask - is there any documentation on the sound architecture for intrepid so I can try to sort this out?
[02:58] <h3sp4wn_> using alsa ?
[03:01] <bri-h> h3sp4wn_: yes - using alsa
[03:04] <DanaG> OIL: ERROR liboiltest.c 361: oil_test_check_impl(): illegal instruction in mmxCombineAddU
[03:04] <DanaG> Odd.  That's one thing I get when running Pulse on an old Athlon XP-M 1400 laptop.
[03:04] <h3sp4wn_> maybe its using sse ?
[03:05] <RAOF> DanaG: And does it then crash?
[03:05] <DanaG> Nope, I think it works, actually.
[03:05] <DanaG> Yeah, it's working.
[03:53] <crimsun_> LetterRip: make sure your l-r-m and nvidia-glx* bits are in place.
[03:53] <LetterRip> crimsun_, will do
[03:54] <RAOF> crimsun_: But there aren't appropriate nvidia-glx*/l-r-m packages for Intrepid, are there?
[03:54] <crimsun_> ...which is what I was alluding to.
[03:54] <RAOF> Fair enough.  Sorry.
[03:54] <crimsun_> OTOH, I suppose one could install the drivers manually, etc., and keep all the pieces.
[03:55] <RAOF> Including a little bit of patching to make the kernel module actually build.
[04:25] <crimsun_> sigh, new Flash 10 beta.
[04:26] <RAOF> With bonus baby-eating action?
[04:26] <crimsun_> we'll see.  I'm updating the source package currently.
[04:27] <crimsun_> I suppose I should demote the versioned dependency on libflashsupport|libasound2-plugins to recommends
[04:27] <RAOF> Ya.  Not hard depends, but wanted in all but exceptional cases.
[04:31] <crimsun_> dude, Adobe, you suck
[04:32] <crimsun_> thanks for flipping the version string :/
[04:32] <ethana2> flash 10 works with PA
[04:32] <crimsun_> 10,0,1,218 -> 10,0,0,525
[04:32] <ethana2> I tried it, just removed all the other stuff for flash 9
[04:32] <RAOF> Wah?
[04:32] <ethana2> you can't have libflash whatever
[04:32] <RAOF> The new version has a _lower_ version string?
[04:32] <ethana2> gotta purge them
[04:32] <crimsun_> RAOF: yep!
[04:33] <RAOF> >.<
[04:33] <crimsun_> Debian unstable doesn't even bother to use upstream's version string in the source package version
[04:33] <crimsun_> (and rightly/smartly so)
[04:39] <RAOF> Hm.  I suspect there's a better way to generate a gtk gui in C# than this.
[04:43] <DanaG> I'm glad I installed the nsplugin wrapper.
[04:43] <DanaG> It seems like I can only get ONE closure of a tab with flash with audio.... and after that, ALL flash-with-audio things die.
[04:44] <DanaG> All of them.  I end up having to restart Firefox.
[04:47] <DanaG> I'll bet if I didn't have nspluginwrapper... it'd be CRASHING firefox.
[04:50] <crimsun_> RAOF: mind uploading http://adhd.irule.net/~crimsun/flashplugin-nonfree_10.0.1.218+10.0.0.525ubuntu1.dsc, please?
[04:51] <crimsun_> (the tar.gz and _source.changes are also present)
[04:51] <RAOF> crimsun_: You're unable to upload?
[04:52] <crimsun_> RAOF: correct, I'm no longer in either upload group.
[04:52] <crimsun_> (tested, verified working with hardy-* and intrepid)
[04:54] <crimsun_> ok, battery's nearly drained, and I need to catch the train.
[04:55] <RAOF> I'll upload to intrepid.
[04:55] <RAOF> Have fun training ;)
[04:55] <DanaG> crimsun_: you sure do seem to travel a lot.
[04:56] <DanaG> I hope it's for things where it's a good thing.
[04:56] <DanaG> Mmm, power outage.
[04:57] <DanaG> Mmm, laptop.  And cable modem and router on a UPS.
[04:57] <ethana2> nice
[04:57] <burner> nice, flash talk.  it actually works to fullscreen flash with compiz enabled now :)
[04:57] <ethana2> I don't know how much they try to make modems and routers efficient
[04:57] <ethana2> but if you run them off UPSs, well, I hope they're good
[04:59] <DanaG> Oh, and our "Telephone over Coax" thingy, too.
[04:59] <DanaG> Perhaps we should give that one a SECOND ups for safety.
[04:59] <ethana2> heh
[04:59] <ethana2> I call it 'VoIP'
[04:59] <DanaG> It's not, though.
[04:59] <ethana2> whatever ;)
[05:00] <DanaG> It's modulated in some way, but I don't believe it's VoIP.  Unless it has its own internet connection, that is.
[05:05] <DanaG> argh, ubuntu-mobile's media player app sees only two songs.
[05:05] <DanaG> And yet, the folder I'm using it with has many many many songs.
[08:02] <sacarde> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/244883
[08:02] <sacarde> hi
[08:22] <hyperair> isn't it sdb?
[08:23] <DanaG> Should be scd0
[08:23] <hyperair> oh right
[08:23] <DanaG> ﻿Hmm, isn't Bluetooth 2.0 EDR  supposed to use USB 2.0?
[08:23] <hyperair> or /dev/sr0
[08:43] <sacarde> but in dmesg I find "/dev/hdb cdrom"
[08:49] <hyperair> eh?
[08:49] <hyperair> that's strange
[08:49] <hyperair> oh well
[08:49] <sacarde> I have detect in dmesg: hda (hd) and hdb (cdrom)
[08:49] <sacarde> is a mac-mini-ppc
[09:09] <BUGabundo_work> hi there
[09:10] <BUGabundo_work> who was the dev that ask for a better way to do the upgrades of depencies of packages?
[09:10] <BUGabundo_work> I just noticed the I have some updates for pidgin, while others are still building
[09:13] <sacarde> may I make a base installation from cd-netinstall-debian and then
[09:14] <sacarde> convert it to kubuntu ?
[09:16] <hyperair> if you mess around with /etc/apt/sources.list you may be able to do it
[09:16] <hyperair> but no guarantees
[09:17] <hyperair> you'll probably have a lot of old config files
[09:23] <sacarde> I ask to mi
[09:23] <sacarde> how it is possible detect hdb in dmesg
[09:23] <sacarde> and not found /dev/hdb ?
[09:26] <BUGabundo_work> sacarde: why not just use the ubuntu netinstall?
[09:26] <BUGabundo_work> are Inetboot, and you don't even need the CD... just grub and fast Net
[09:26] <sacarde> where is it for 8.10 ?
[09:27] <BUGabundo_work> no live cd for 8.10
[09:27] <BUGabundo_work> just alternate
[09:28] <sacarde> eh
[09:28] <hyperair> why no livecd i wonder?
[09:29] <hyperair> this must be the first time they've released without a livecd
[09:29] <sacarde> what mean: ubuntu netinstall ?
[09:34] <BUGabundo_work> hyperair: too many troubles! and hardy point release got it delayed
[09:34] <molgrum> nvidia drivers soon please? :)
[09:35] <BUGabundo_work> sacarde: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/intrepid/main/installer-i386/current/images/
[09:35] <sacarde> I am in ppc
[09:35] <BUGabundo_work> I wish molgrum... no 3d for me! no games, no compiz, no showing off how Ubuntu is beautiful
[09:35] <BUGabundo_work> sacarde: there is also images for 64bits
[09:36] <sacarde> no ppc
[09:36] <molgrum> what is the holdup BUGabundo_work?
[09:37] <BUGabundo_work> from what I've been told, there were lots of changes to kernel ABI
[09:37] <BUGabundo_work> and there is an huge delay in doing the lbm modules for it
[09:37] <molgrum> ah :(
[09:38] <BUGabundo_work> sacarde: ppc AFAIK is no longer supported
[09:38] <molgrum> that sucks
[09:38] <BUGabundo_work> sacarde: http://openlab.jp/oscircular/inetboot/
[09:38] <BUGabundo_work> its great to boot up the machine without any CD or disk
[09:39] <BUGabundo_work> of course, just to boot GDM it takes 200MiBs of packages
[09:39] <BUGabundo_work> lol
[09:42] <enyc> hrrm
[09:50] <sacarde> BUGabundo_work, but oscircular need a livecd
[09:51] <BUGabundo_work> sacarde: use hardy 8.04.1
[09:51] <BUGabundo_work> and dist-upgrade
[09:51] <sacarde> to 8.10 ?
[09:51] <sacarde> may it?
[09:52] <BUGabundo_work> there is no licevd for 8.10, I'm sorry
[09:52] <BUGabundo_work> either you dist-upgrade or use the alternatecd
[09:52] <sacarde> alternate cd non detect my cdrom
[09:53] <BUGabundo_work> sacarde: keep your eyes on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/
[09:53] <sacarde> I know
[09:53] <BUGabundo_work> sacarde: both alternate cd and livecd work the same way
[09:53] <BUGabundo_work> there should not be any diference with your cdrom drive
[09:54] <BUGabundo_work> when you say its doesn't detect, what exactly do you mean?
[09:54] <sacarde> in dmesg I view it: hdb
[09:54] <sacarde> but I dont find /dev/hdb
[09:54] <BUGabundo_work> on bios Boot?
[09:54] <sacarde> install
[09:54] <BUGabundo_work> after install?
[09:55] <sacarde> I choose "install" kernel
[09:56] <BUGabundo_work> I've seen some bug reports on trouble using the CD
[09:56] <BUGabundo_work> check out LP and subscrive to the one that fits you best
[09:56] <BUGabundo_work> the alternate and live images installer are a bit diferent, and _may_ cause that behaviour
[09:56] <BUGabundo_work> but if they do cause you trouble, then it's a bug
[09:57] <BUGabundo_work> do hardy live cd and alternate cd work for you sacarde ?
[09:57] <sacarde> I no try
[09:57] <BUGabundo_work> can you please try hardy 8.04.1 live cd?
[09:58] <sacarde> I looking for a workaround intrepid problem
[09:58] <BUGabundo_work> and if you already have a grub instaled you can try the inetboot
[09:58] <BUGabundo_work> but what is your prob exactly?
[09:58] <BUGabundo_work> not mouting the CD drive?
[09:58] <sacarde> in dmesg I view it: hdb
[09:58] <sacarde> but I dont find /dev/hdb
[09:59] <BUGabundo_work> but is it a fresh install (via alternate cd / net boot) or upgrade from hardy?
[10:00] <sacarde> fresh install from alternate
[10:00] <sacarde> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/244883
[10:00] <BUGabundo_work> I have no experience with ppc, I'm sorry
[10:00] <BUGabundo_work> can you please post the line from dmesg?
[10:01] <sacarde> hdb: MATSHITACD-RW CW-8124, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
[10:01] <sacarde> may be a module specific mnissing?
[10:02] <sacarde> I try to load : cdrom, but not resolv
[10:03] <BUGabundo_work> not even /dev(scd0 ?
[10:04] <sacarde> I am serching only hd*
[10:04] <sacarde> I try
[10:04] <BUGabundo_work> do a ls /dev/sc then hit tab twice
[10:05] <BUGabundo_work> or
[10:05] <BUGabundo_work> do a ls /dev/cdr then hit tab twice
[10:06] <sacarde> if it exist... what I have to do? installer would find hdb I think
[10:09] <sacarde> ln -s <whatfind> hdb        ?
[12:12] <molgrum> can anyone answer, what's going on with nvidia drivers?
[12:16] <hyperair> not done yet
[12:19] <s0u][ight> hello guys
[12:19] <hyperair> yo
[12:20] <s0u][ight> what is the kernel of the new developed ubuntu? 2.6.25?
[12:20] <hyperair> .26
[12:20] <hyperair> 2.6.26
[12:21] <s0u][ight> :D so the driver for the intel pro wireless 4965 is changed with this version?
[12:21] <hyperair> i have no idea
[12:22] <hyperair> the only thing i know about intrepid is that nvidia is broken at the moment
[12:22] <hyperair> and i refuse to use it compizless
[12:22] <s0u][ight> use opensource drivers ;)
[12:22] <s0u][ight> if possible?
[12:22] <hyperair> nouveau not shipped
[12:22] <hyperair> and nv doesn't support 3d
[12:22] <hyperair> woo hoo
[12:23] <hyperair> the question is... "what open source drivers?"
[12:23] <s0u][ight> are there no open source drivers for the nvidia cards i thought there were :s look in the site of compiz ;)
[12:24] <s0u][ight> the only thing i hate about ubuntu is the frequency of updates :@
[12:26] <hyperair> what?
[12:26] <hyperair> frequency?
[12:27] <hyperair> don't you mean rarity?
[12:27] <hyperair> i hate the way ubuntu's a static release distro
[12:27] <hyperair> but otherwise it's nice
[12:28] <hyperair> anyway the only open source drivers for nvidia cards are nv and nouveau
[12:28] <hyperair> of course there's vesa
[12:28] <s0u][ight> vesa? :)
[12:28] <hyperair> but that's just a generic driver with no 2d/3d acceleration
[12:28] <molgrum> hrm, how would one install nouveau on 8.10 then?
[12:29] <hyperair> it's not in the frigging repo
[12:29] <molgrum> zz
[12:29] <hyperair> so much for "ubuntu will support the nouveau project completely"
[12:29] <hyperair> pah
[12:29] <s0u][ight> i don't understand why nvidia gives the source code of their hardware they only distribute binairies :@
[12:29] <molgrum> maybe they just haven't had the time yet
[12:30] <hyperair> i think it would take less time to release source code
[12:30] <molgrum> is ati open source yet?
[12:30] <hyperair> than to release binaries
[12:30] <hyperair> i have no idea
[12:30] <hyperair> i heard ati was going open source
[12:30] <hyperair> then no more news about it
[12:30] <molgrum> i'll switch to ati if they go
[12:30] <hyperair> lol
[12:30] <hyperair> i don't have the money to keep switching
[12:30] <hyperair> so i'm still using my ancient nvidia card
[12:30] <molgrum> was thinking in the future :)
[12:30] <hyperair> nvidia geforce4 mx
[12:31] <hyperair> doesn't even work with the 1xx.xx.xx drivers
[12:31] <s0u][ight> nvidia for ever sorry but never really liked ati and catalyst
[12:32] <s0u][ight> intel graphics family is welcome too :D
[12:33] <s0u][ight> but i have to say that ati's linux drivers are better then its windows ones XD
[12:35] <hyperair> lol why?
[12:36] <s0u][ight> well according to my ati experiance
[12:36] <hyperair> i see
[12:39] <s0u][ight> to be honest i don't understand the mentality of men selling hardware not opensourcing their drivers... the more people developping the better it gets
[12:40] <hyperair> um according to them, it will expose the secrets they have put into the hardware
[12:40] <hyperair> and people like ati can take advantage of them
[12:40] <hyperair> or so it seems
[12:42] <s0u][ight> well companies like these could win the hole market for themselves with just a few modifications in their philosofy :(
[12:42] <hyperair> philosophy you mean
[12:43] <hyperair> and whole
[12:43] <s0u][ight> tnx for correcting my mistakes ;)
[12:43] <hyperair> ;)
[13:27] <molgrum> uhm
[13:27] <molgrum> both the gnome sound server and gnash is playing sounds in my pc speaker...
[13:27] <molgrum> since i upgraded to 8.10
[13:28] <Pici> molgrum: Have you concidered searching for or logging a bug?
[13:35] <molgrum> i might have found something..
[13:36] <Hobbsee> Pici: there's info on the forums on how to fix it
[13:36] <Hobbsee> (search for posts by me, and you'll find it)
[13:36] <Pici> Hobbsee: I see. /noted
[13:39] <molgrum> ok i blacklisted the pc speaker module :P
[13:40] <hyperair> it's pcm_pcsp isn't it
[13:40] <hyperair> it changed eh
[13:40] <hyperair> it used to be pcspkr
[13:40] <molgrum> http://www.inspirecom.com/content/view/22/12/
[13:41] <molgrum> changed to snd_pcsp
[13:41] <hyperair> my pc speaker's spoilt or something so it makes some loud scratchy sound. i was worried my hard disk was grinding to a halt when it booted up
[13:41] <hyperair> ><
[13:41] <molgrum> same here
[13:41] <molgrum> it can actually play stuff so you can hear it, but there's a loud grinding noise that accompanies
[13:42] <hyperair> ah isit?
[13:42] <hyperair> so my pc speaker isn't spoilt after all
[13:42] <hyperair> annoying grinding sound
[13:43] <molgrum> yeah
[13:43] <Pici> molgrum: I've been informed that there is a post on the forums to resolve your issue.
[13:43] <molgrum> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5299675&postcount=13
[13:43] <hyperair> other than blacklisting pcspkr?
[13:44] <molgrum> found it actually :)
[13:44] <molgrum> thanks Pici
[13:44] <Pici> molgrum: Yep, that was it
[14:39] <G_009> update time!
[14:41] <G_009> i'd like to have that proprietary nvidia driver to run opengl stuff.. but nv is doing fine
[14:41] <molgrum> not for 3d :/
[14:43] <G_009> i can still run all the default programs without issues .. so that's good
[14:45] <G_009> except for f-spot ..  came back to using rhythmbox again too; very smooth in 8.10, so much that it made me drop quodlibet
[14:46] <molgrum> i can't run any GLX apps
[14:47] <G_009> thats out of the question at the moment
[14:50] <G_009> actually.. i lied .. not all the default programs.. there is a real ugly totem bug that's not allowing me to play DVD's
[15:01] <lamalex> G_009: there have been noticable rhythmbox improvements from 8.04 -> 8.10?
[15:06] <G_009> my library loads quickly .. in previous versions it would get stuck in an endless loop; visualization doesn't use up 100% cpu; dragging progress bar is efficiently fast; i think all of it has to do with how kernel is so sexy, but rhythmbox is packed full of features too
[15:09] <G_009> am not even using swap
[15:09] <G_009> as in , i set up the system with no swap
[15:09] <G_009> still smooth
[15:43]  * DanaG loves having international keyboard.  When I went to bed last night, I set my status to "﻿S£€€P(ing)."
[16:57] <tom__> hi all, anyone know if redirected direct rendering will make it into intrepid?
[16:59] <ethana2> DRI2?
[16:59] <tom__> ethana2 yea
[16:59] <tom__> +gem and whatever's needed now
[16:59] <ethana2> nope
[16:59] <ethana2> not last I heard
[16:59] <tom__> ethana2 darn :(
[16:59] <ethana2> I was disappointed, but whatever--
[16:59] <ethana2> they know what they're doing
[17:01] <tgillespie_> ethana2 i hope so
[17:07] <molgrum> is OSS4 in ubuntu yet?
[17:08] <ethana2> do we even ship OSS with PulseAudio?
[17:11] <hyperair> what? oss with pulseaudio?
[17:11] <hyperair> highly doubt it
[17:12] <DanaG> I've tried OSS4 with PulseAudio.  It doesn't work.
[17:13] <DanaG> (And besides, oss4 hard-locks my system.  Not kernel panic, but actual hard-lock.)
[17:13] <hyperair> lol
[17:13] <hyperair> weird
[17:13] <hyperair> did you try module-oss-sink?
[17:13] <DanaG> Yup.
[17:13] <hyperair> or whatever it was called
[17:13] <hyperair> ah
[17:14] <hyperair> i think pulseaudio needs to be compiled with oss4 support in order for that to work then
[17:14] <pen> oos4?
[17:14] <pen> oss4?
[17:14] <hyperair> yeah
[17:14] <pen> pulseaudio with oss4?
[17:14] <hyperair> OSSv4
[17:14] <pen> wow
[17:14] <pen> is it better than alsa?
[17:14] <hyperair> supposedly
[17:14] <hyperair> no scratch that. it is better than alsa
[17:15] <DanaG> Not for me.
[17:15] <hyperair> well when it works
[17:15] <DanaG> Yeah.
[17:15] <pen> but I'm using ubuntu how do I test oss4 to see if it's really better than alsa? because oss4 are supposedly better with blast soundcard not others?
[17:15] <hyperair> when it works, it's better than alsa
[17:15] <DanaG> And the mixer is way cryptic, too.
[17:15] <hyperair> erm ossv4 is supposed to have software mixing
[17:15] <hyperair> so a regular integrated sound card should work to
[17:15] <DanaG> (though it IS a bit fun having individual pin control on HDA devices)
[17:15] <hyperair> o
[17:16] <pen> DanaG, what do you mean by that?
[17:17] <DanaG> You can set mic-in to be another headphone jack, for example.
[17:17] <DanaG> Though, they call things "Front green" and such -- and none of my ports is actually colored.
[17:17] <pen> lol
[17:18] <pen> hyperair, DanaG are you guys using intrepid?
[17:18] <hyperair> i'm using archlinux until the devs get nvidia up and working in intrepid
[17:18]  * hyperair is annoyed with the broken nvidia modules in intrepid
[17:19] <pen> hyperair, it breaks in intrepid?
[17:19] <pen> hyperair, how?
[17:19] <hyperair> yes
[17:19] <hyperair> more like
[17:19] <hyperair> missing
[17:19] <hyperair> nada
[17:19] <hyperair> nothing
[17:19] <hyperair> nil
[17:19] <pen> hyperair, it's fine in hardy
[17:19] <hyperair> of course it is
[17:19] <hyperair> they REMOVED IT in intrepid
[17:19] <DanaG> There's a forum thread on how to fix nvidia in intrepid.
[17:19] <hyperair> yeah
[17:19] <pen> oh
[17:19] <hyperair> but not for legacy nvidia users
[17:19] <pen> hm
[17:19] <DanaG> It takes some patching of the installer itself.
[17:19] <DanaG> Aah.
[17:19] <hyperair> i'm using 96.43.05
[17:19] <DanaG> Dang.  Legacy.
[17:19] <pen> patch..patch
[17:19] <hyperair> pfffffffft
[17:19]  * hyperair is pissed
[17:19] <pen> i'm using the 17x
[17:19] <hyperair> yay for j00
[17:20] <DanaG> For people with ATI, at least the open-source drivers ALL do 2D acceleration.
[17:20] <DanaG> nv doesn't accelerate 2D, from what I've seen when using it.
[17:20] <pen> DanaG, I thought ati is releasing linux driver?
[17:20] <hyperair> while i'm waiting for ubuntu to get nvidia back up and working i guess i'll continue engaging in a nice and heated debate on whether en_GB uses AM/PM for time or not
[17:20] <hyperair> >=(
[17:20] <DanaG> Yeah, ATI has the closed-source fglrx, AND the open-source 'radeon' and 'radeonhd'
[17:21] <hyperair> i absolutely refuse to believe that en_GB has no AM/PM, but that's how it is in upstream gnome.
[17:21] <hyperair> i wish ubuntu had nouveau
[17:21] <pen> hyperair, nouveau?
[17:21] <hyperair> or some other non-existent nvidia driver
[17:21] <DanaG> No suspend == I won't use nouveau.
[17:21] <hyperair> yeah
[17:21] <hyperair> what?!
[17:21] <hyperair> no suspend?!
[17:21] <molgrum> DanaG: that forum thread.. is it for example worth looking for if i have 8800gts?
[17:21] <hyperair> T_T
[17:22] <hyperair> molgrum: yes it is
[17:22] <molgrum> i really want to get glx working
[17:22] <DanaG> Anything 6-series and newer.
[17:22] <molgrum> ok thanks
[17:22] <pen> oh
[17:22] <pen> I see
[17:22] <DanaG> ¬_¬
[17:22] <hyperair> geforce4 here T_T
[17:22] <pen> only the new graphic cards
[17:22] <DanaG> =þ
[17:22] <hyperair> i feel neglected
[17:22] <hyperair> left out
[17:22] <pen> what character is taht?
[17:22] <DanaG> "thorn" (AltGr-T on US International)
[17:22] <DanaG> AltGr is right alt.
[17:23] <hyperair> ¬_¬
[17:23] <pen> how do I press it?
[17:23] <DanaG> aah, the ¬ is altgr \
[17:23] <pen> it's not coming out
[17:23] <DanaG> þ is altgr t
[17:23] <hyperair> on en_GB it's altgr + - + ,
[17:23] <ethana2> heh
[17:23] <ethana2> what layout?
[17:23] <pen> do you hold it?
[17:23] <ethana2> é
[17:23] <ethana2> my altgr + t is that dead key
[17:23] <pen> i'm using us layout
[17:23] <DanaG> I'm using US International (AltGr DeadKeys)
[17:24] <ethana2> colemak here
[17:24] <ethana2> DanaG: ahh...
[17:24] <DanaG> Anybody know where to print the layout, so you can actually READ it?  The gnome thingy prints it unreadably.
[17:24] <ethana2> by the way, does colemak Just Work in intrepid yet?
[17:24] <ethana2> I'll be on alpha 2 or 3 updating my bug....
[17:24] <DanaG> I'm going to use some "Keyboard Layout Manager" thingy in Windows to make the same AltGr-Deadkeys layout.
[17:24] <ethana2> I'm tired of having to mess with it so much
[17:25] <pen> DanaG, how do you make AltGr?
[17:25] <ethana2> use a layout that has it, press the alt to the right of the space bar
[17:25] <pen> ethana2, but for me it's not generating any character at all with that pressed
[17:26] <G_009> this should be addressed upstream
[17:26] <ethana2> G_009: ?
[17:26] <G_009> not
[17:26] <pen> ethana2, gtg, next time...:p
[17:27] <ethana2> I almost wish they'd just remove colemak or something
[17:27] <ethana2> if we have to install it ourselves to get a working implementation anyway
[17:27] <ethana2> really, they need to steal our backspace feature for all you guys
[17:27] <ethana2> caps behavior: backspace
[17:27] <ethana2> that would fix all of this
[17:28] <DanaG> You could try setting "caps is additional CTRL" perhaps.
[17:28] <ethana2> it is my backspace.
[17:28] <ethana2> as per the colemak spec
[17:28] <ethana2> ctrl isn't as good of use for it as backspace is
[17:28] <ethana2> ctrl won't help you typing 120 wpm
[17:28] <ethana2> at all
[17:29] <ethana2> brb
[17:30] <molgrum> http://news.softpedia.com/news/New-Nvidia-Linux-Drivers-Brings-Support-for-Kernel-2-6-26-88135.shtml these news say that the drivers work on 2.6.26
[17:30] <DanaG> Aah, so they fixed the "gives backspace AND caps"?
[17:31] <hyperair> what's gives backspace and caps?
[17:31] <hyperair> say.. which locale is international english?
[17:32] <ethana2> they fixed it?
[17:32] <ethana2> what?
[17:32] <ethana2> hyperair: in the colemak layout, the caps lock key is backspace
[17:32] <DanaG> did they fix it?
[17:32] <ethana2> gnome doesn't handle this elegantly
[17:32] <hyperair> O_o i see
[17:32] <ethana2> not that I know of
[17:32] <ethana2> nOPE
[17:33] <ethana2> so to change the function, there's three elements to that
[17:33] <ethana2> mapping it backspace
[17:33] <ethana2> removing lock capslock
[17:33] <ethana2> and setting repeat on for that keycode
[17:34] <ethana2> it's better to have gnome intercept it and set it backspace and have the layout leave it alone
[17:34] <hyperair> molgrum: that article only shows the status of the new driver
[17:34] <hyperair> molgrum: what about the legacies?
[17:34] <ethana2> oh hey, what's up with nvidia's mobile chips?
[17:35] <ethana2> they were dying left and right or something
[17:35] <hyperair> O_o? they were?
[17:35] <ethana2> I just ordered a geforce 8400m gs in my new ubuntu 1420n from dell
[17:35] <ethana2> so I'm concerned, as you can imagine..
[17:35] <ethana2> seemed like most of the folks having problems were on the m1330 XPS
[17:36] <hyperair> that's not very nice
[17:36] <hyperair> i was thinking of getting an m1530
[17:36] <hyperair> which is pretty much similar to the m1330
[17:37] <ethana2> I don't remember which one comes with ubuntu
[17:37] <ethana2> do they have more than like, 4 offerings now?
[18:00] <hyperair> say.. how good is ati on linux?
[18:04] <Oli``> hyperair: somewhere between poor and useless depending on your requirements
[18:06] <Oli``> hyperair: it's not always bad but when I moved to Linux, I dumped my aging ATI card for a shiny nvidia one. If you can afford it, I reckon that's the best course of action atm
[18:06] <tom__> hyperair: although ati are moving in the open source direction
[18:07] <tom__> hyperair: nvidia are binary only, and seem that way for a while, poor out of the box
[18:09] <lamalex> Oli``: that's not true, I've had great luck with ati
[18:09] <lamalex> it just depends what you need it for
[18:10] <joaopinto> I also had no issues with my previous ATI card on Linux
[18:10] <tom__> Oli``: ati used to be *very* poor though, maybe youre remembering those times
[18:10] <lamalex> These days I would say ati > nvidia
[18:10] <Oli``> pish - their driver is open but it's still a pain in the arse at times
[18:11] <lamalex> even if it's not all there *yet* you're supporting a company who has chosen to open up vs. shut us out
[18:11] <Oli``> (not that the nvidia one isn't, in fairness)
[18:11] <hyperair> so currently how is the ati driver on ubuntu or linux in general?
[18:11] <hyperair> i mean nvidia finally got rid of black windows and all
[18:11] <lamalex> hyperair: depends on the card
[18:11] <hyperair> so i really have nothing to say against it
[18:12] <hyperair> unless you count in the lousy xrender support
[18:12] <hyperair> and weird resolution/refresh rates
[18:12] <tom__> hyperair and kernel devs will hate you XD
[18:12] <lamalex> I get whiteouts on my nvidia where I have to kill X
[18:12] <hyperair> i know.
[18:12] <hyperair> i really couldn't care less about the licensing
[18:12] <hyperair> i just care that it works
[18:12] <Oli``> hyperair: amen
[18:13] <tom__> hyperair are you looking to buy?
[18:13] <hyperair> hahah
[18:13] <joaopinto> Windows works :)
[18:13] <Oli``> joaopinto: that's news to me
[18:13] <tom__> joaopinto thats disputable.....
[18:13] <hyperair> i'm trying to choose between a dell xps and a dell studio
[18:13] <hyperair> windows sucks big time
[18:13] <tom__> hyperair what cards do each have?
[18:13] <hyperair> and no it doesn't work ;)
[18:13] <hyperair> um
[18:13] <hyperair> xps's got nvidia 8xxx
[18:13] <joaopinto> not less disputable compared to the NVidia driver working :)
[18:14] <hyperair> studio's got ATi
[18:14] <hyperair> some mobility card
[18:14] <lamalex> ati /what/
[18:14] <hyperair> i can't remember the number
[18:14] <lamalex> that's important
[18:14] <tom__> hyperair what are you looking to use it for?
[18:14] <hyperair> joaopinto: very much disputable. windows has no compiz fusion
[18:14] <hyperair> tom__: compiz, CS, some old games
[18:14] <Oli``> Well I've got a 8800 here and it's just dandy in Twinview 1920*1200*2 mode
[18:15] <hyperair> and smooth performance
[18:15] <joaopinto> hyperair, and since when is "compiz" a requirement :) ?
[18:15] <tom__> hyperair is it only between those 2?
[18:15] <tom__> computers i mean
[18:15] <lamalex> Oli``: do you have compiz running in that high res?
[18:15] <Oli``> lamalex: yeah
[18:15] <lamalex> I didn't think compiz could do > 2048x2048
[18:15] <Oli``> smooth as a button
[18:16] <hyperair> joaopinto: it is for me
[18:16] <crdlb> lamalex: compiz can do whatever your GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE can
[18:16] <hyperair> tom__: pretty much
[18:16] <hyperair> tom__: the rest don't depend on GPU
[18:16] <lamalex> ah
[18:16] <tom__> hyperair considered an intel chip?
[18:16] <crdlb> recent nvidia cards have 8192 ** 2
[18:17] <hyperair> tom__: yeah. but i'm looking at a dell studio 15, which doesn't have anything other than ati
[18:17] <hyperair> whereas xps has a choice of nvidia or intel
[18:17] <hyperair> aha
[18:18] <hyperair> 256 MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3450
[18:18] <hyperair> how's that?
[18:18] <hyperair> good or bad?
[18:18] <tom__> hyperair radeon hd is good ive heard
[18:18] <hyperair> is it?
[18:18] <hyperair> okay, so i should consider it after all =\
[18:18] <tom__> hyperair didnt ati/amd just write/commision an open source driver?
[18:19] <tom__> hyperair dont trust me though :)
[18:19] <hyperair> yeah but is it ready?
[18:19] <hyperair> until the driver's ready, i don't wanna get it. but the laptop should be chosen in a time span of 3 months
[18:19] <Oli``> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver
[18:20] <Oli``> Sounds like the Binary is still the way you want to go for performance
[18:20] <lamalex> hyperair: Xorg wiki says that card should work with the radeonhd driver
[18:20] <tom__> http://www.x.org/wiki/radeonhd#head-8cc5fc520af1596f811ff28f709f805041f58907
[18:21] <tom__> hyperair: apparently 3d's not ready yet, sorry for the bad info
[18:21] <hyperair> oh damn
[18:21] <lamalex> go with intel anyway
[18:21] <hyperair> nvidia it is then
[18:21] <hyperair> how well do old games work with intel?
[18:21] <hyperair> artifacts/choppy?
[18:21] <lamalex> You're playing cs dude
[18:21] <hyperair> lol
[18:21] <hyperair> so it's fine?
[18:21] <lamalex> it's like 15 year old game, imagine the hardware it was designed for
[18:21] <Oli``> They should be fine on older games, yeah
[18:22] <hyperair> um
[18:22] <hyperair> right
[18:22] <lamalex> and still the greatest game
[18:22] <hyperair> okay lemme rephrase: how does a new intel card compare with an ancient nvidia card?
[18:22] <Oli``> 7 years old, I think, but still
[18:22] <hyperair> say nvidia geforce4 mx
[18:22] <lamalex> it's older than 7 years
[18:22] <tom__> hyperair the x3100 is good isnt it?
[18:22] <hyperair> i have no idea what x3100 is =\
[18:23] <G_009> mx4000
[18:23] <lamalex> Oli``: came out in 99
[18:23] <hyperair> i'm honestly lost when it comes to GPUs beyond the nvidia geforce4 mx.
[18:23] <Oli``> lamalex: 1999 as a mod
[18:23] <Oli``> =) wikipedia to the rescue
[18:23] <lamalex> haha :)
[18:23] <hyperair> meh
[18:23] <lamalex> so when did halflife come out
[18:23] <hyperair> it's all greek to me
[18:24] <tomd123> hl stole so much time away from me, it's really sad
[18:24] <lamalex> you could make an argument for CS being an older game since it  was a mod
[18:24] <lamalex> but we digress :)
[18:24] <Oli``> end of 98, apparently
[18:24] <lamalex> tomd123: tell me about it
[18:24] <G_009> it stole half life from you
[18:24] <lamalex> I wasted so much of early middle school to those games
[18:24] <tomd123> lamalex: let's just say it lasted several years..
[18:25] <shadow420> hey I need to adjust my screen resolution  to see properly how do I do that I am using xfrc
[18:25] <tomd123> G_009: I hope not, that means I'm over due.
[18:26] <hyperair> @_@
[18:27] <hyperair> maybe i'll look at the inspirons
[18:27] <Oli``> hyperair: you could get something other than a dell
[18:28] <hyperair> hmm i looked
[18:28] <hyperair> not impressed
[18:28] <Oli``> ..with any other PC brand?
[18:28] <hyperair> they're either pricey or underspec'd or both
[18:28] <shadow420> well I have an old dell I am using and I have had no problems with them
[18:29] <shadow420> I do mean old
[18:30] <Oli``> build your own
[18:30] <lamalex> custom builds++
[18:30] <lamalex> except you lose warranty support
[18:30] <Oli``> if you can handle the more dubious usability aspects of Linux, you can handle the building side of things
[18:30] <Oli``> warranties are for girls
[18:30] <shadow420> a P3 1.0Ghz  512MB Of Ram Nvidia Graphics Card
[18:30] <Oli``> spare parts for the win
[18:30]  * lamalex looks down and shrugs
[18:31] <shadow420> hey warrenties are thre for a reason
[18:31] <tom__> yea, wish i still had my warranty, dam backlight
[18:31] <Oli``> components still have warranties
[18:32] <G_009> if you have ever played with legos .. you can put a computer together.. just dont get electrocuted
[18:32] <tom__> anyway, ciao y'all
[18:33] <shadow420> infact my new system is going to have alot of power and it's a dell I just prefer dells plus I can custommize the basic setup to suit my needs I will be back got to reboot
[18:37] <shadow420> back
[18:38] <hyperair> Oli``: i'd build it if i were getting a desktop, but this is alaptop we're talking about
[18:39] <Oli``> hyperair: oh that's very true
[18:39] <hyperair> mmhmm
[18:40] <hyperair> so much easier to build a comp than buy a prebuilt one
[18:41] <lamalex> what?
[18:41] <lamalex> hardly
[18:41] <lamalex> Options means decisions, and I don't know about you, but I am not good at deciding
[18:43] <shadow420> I need to fix my display to use my required driver
[18:43] <G_009> they have what its called barebone kits with everything you need..  that leaves you with which one you want ..
[18:44] <G_009> and play lego with it
[18:46] <G_009> i'd always try booting up in recovery mode and use Fix xserver option; "works for me"
[19:05] <ShackJack> HI all trying to install Kubuntu 8.10 under Vbox from the ISO, but it keeps hanging @ Preparing xfonts-base (after the username, etc.. is chosen)... Anyone else experiencing this or thoughts on how to nudge it along?
[19:06] <ShackJack> (cpu steady @ 50%, so I assume it's trying to do *something*)
[19:10] <ethana2> dual core?
[19:10] <ethana2> ShackJack: two core CPU?
[19:12] <G_009> maybe you need to do a chksum check on it
[19:12] <stdin> I think there may be a bug when installing on VMs, or so I've heard
[19:13] <shadow420> I need to get my screen fixed it's annoing to see some text not show up
[19:16] <ShackJack> ethana2: Yes - two core...
[19:16] <ShackJack> G_009: O.K. yep willl try a checksum - I think I overlooked doing that...
[19:17] <ShackJack> stdin: K - thanks for the tip...
[19:17] <ethana2> sounds like a race condition
[19:17] <ethana2> if you only had one core, it'd take your machine unresponsive
[19:17] <ethana2> maybe
[19:17] <ShackJack> ethana2: Kinda seems that way....
[19:18] <ShackJack> Is Ibex Alpha rockin' KDE 4.1?
[19:18]  * ShackJack shuts down VM
[19:19] <ethana2> yes
[19:20] <ethana2> so we get unified KDE, gnome, and wine themes right?
[19:20] <ethana2> I didn't see that in the spec for intrepid, but it'd be nice if my desktop didn't look like a complete....
[19:20] <ShackJack> I tried the Suse KDE live cd... wasn't too crazy about it, but figured I give KDE another shot... (Though it just seems awkward, some of the interface decisions they make)
[19:20] <ethana2> like the main panel at the bottom, eww
[19:21] <ShackJack> Yeah, and those funny icons that appear when hovering over plasma thingies... Ever heard of right-click? :P
[19:22]  * ShackJack running the "Check CD for defects" (ISO under VM)
[19:25] <kristjan_> what xorg version will come with intrepid? 1.5?
[19:36] <ethana2> haha yeah
[19:36] <ethana2> that cashew is ugly, I don't want it there all the time, that's ridiculous
[19:36] <ethana2> right click FTW
[19:49] <ShackJack> Mmmm... cashews....
[19:49] <ethana2> they're tasty
[19:49] <ethana2> but we have context menus for a reason
[19:51] <ShackJack> I may give the SUSE install a go for now to try out KDE 4... I'm sure it can be tweaked to my likings, but you're right the ever-present cashew is a stupid design choice.... put it in the tray or the taskbar if anything...
[19:51] <ethana2> I have my gnome /perfect/
[19:52] <ethana2> no arrows on the ends of scroll bars
[19:52] <ethana2> no window title redundancy
[19:52] <ethana2> it's in the window list, not the grab bar
[19:52] <ShackJack> Window Title Redundancy?
[19:52] <ethana2> which is half thickness of course, to save space
[19:52] <ethana2> yeah, no sense putting it in the window list /and/ title bars
[19:53] <ethana2> I'm a function oriented minimalist-- if it has minimal function, I find it disorienting
[19:53] <ShackJack> I have a very "Windows"-esque setup... Single panel across the bottom with the single "start" menu type button, some quick launchers, the window list buttons, follow by a sysmon, notification tray and clock & weather...
[19:53] <ethana2> uggh
[19:53] <ethana2> I didn't switch to linux because of linux
[19:54] <ethana2> I switched because of gnome
[19:54] <ethana2> controls belong on the top, content on the remainder of the screen
[19:55] <ShackJack> I poached the Visa Segoue font, which looks very nice on my 15" 1680x1050 screen and use a mac-esque theme "Aqua Advanced"... (it has colored buttons, but not so big and they're on the "right" side of the window
[19:55] <ethana2> your cursor should never have to go across the screen center line, vertically
[19:55] <ethana2> my theme is white against black, with dark gray around
[19:55] <ShackJack> By controls, you're referring to your having a top-panel?
[19:55] <ethana2> deep blue glossy widgets
[19:55] <ethana2> top panel, grab bar, menu bar, all those
[19:56] <ethana2> bar thingies-- I don't show status bars because they're at the bottom
[19:56] <ethana2> the way to help with visual noise isn't spreading it out
[19:56] <ethana2> it's eliminating it
[19:56] <ShackJack> Gotcha... like I said I'm a bit brainwashed from Windows over the years, so I stick with that type of setup... Works for Me (TM)
[19:56] <ethana2> I have never had that mindset
[19:56] <ethana2> heh
[19:56] <ShackJack> I never liked the two-panel default setup at any rate - waste of space...
[19:57] <molgrum> audacious crashing on x86_64
[19:57] <ethana2> I even find the english language frusrating enough to switch to lojban
[19:57] <ethana2> ShackJack: two panels for small screens
[19:57] <ethana2> on wide, one at the top
[19:57] <ethana2> it should be done automatically, but it's easy enough to do yourself
[19:57] <ShackJack> Something about having the panel at the top and then the window title right beneath bother me...
[19:57] <ethana2> as I said
[19:58] <ethana2> it's not
[19:58] <ethana2> because I removed it from grab bars
[19:58] <ethana2> it's only in the window list, where it belongs
[19:58] <ShackJack> I'm not sure I know what you're referring to by "grab bars"?
[19:58] <ethana2> and close together?  yeah, that's what makes it fast
[19:58] <ethana2> no titles in them, so why call them title bars?
[19:58] <ethana2> I use them to grab windows, so I call it my grab bar
[19:59] <ethana2> and also, as I said, half height
[19:59] <ethana2> like 12 px or something
[19:59] <ShackJack> True - yes you have no titles ;-)  I don't imagine a lot of ppl have there's set like that, though it's an interesting take...
[19:59] <ethana2> I think
[19:59] <ShackJack> :)
[19:59] <ethana2> many others employ 'works for me'.......
[19:59] <ethana2> I am simply not one of those people
[19:59] <ShackJack> Grab Bar - I get's it... Of course, ALT+Drag works too :P
[19:59] <ethana2> yes it does
[20:00] <ethana2> but I double click to (un)maximize
[20:00] <ethana2> thus no maximize button on the grab bar
[20:00] <ethana2> I click the window list entry to (un)minimize, thus no button for that either
[20:00] <ShackJack> True, in this case, though the paradigm (the single bottom panel desktop) is so widely used, it makes others using my system instantly familiar...
[20:00] <ShackJack> (plus with proper title bars) :)
[20:00] <ethana2> familiarity is overrated
[20:00] <ethana2> and 'proper' is relative
[20:01] <ethana2> ....we should take this to #offtopic......
[20:01] <ShackJack> For some people yes, but not when it comes to O/S's and apps...
[20:01] <ShackJack> True we should - though the channel is very quiet... going now
[20:01] <ethana2> (sorry about that folks, I forget that a lot)
[20:09] <jonpackard> Hi. Is anybody else getting a screen flicker (black) using the nv driver? I have a Nvidia Gforce 8600GT.
[20:12] <molgrum> jonpackard: i have the exact same problem
[20:12] <molgrum> usually when it changes resolution or is under heavy cpu load
[20:17] <jonpackard> Thanks and I'm going to try NOVEAU driver next to see if it works better.
[20:18] <ethana2> good luck
[20:18] <jonpackard> thanks
[20:18] <ethana2> you want 3d or what?
[20:18] <ethana2> I mean, I suppose it's possible that you may not
[20:18] <jonpackard> I haven't used it before but I'm also gonna try the NVIDIA....eh...
[20:18] <ethana2> but if you have an nvidia gpu in the first place...
[20:18] <jonpackard> Yea
[20:18] <jonpackard> I might try the 3D
[20:18] <jonpackard> Depends on what works
[20:19] <molgrum> i don't even know how to install nouveau
[20:19] <molgrum> didn't find it in synaptic
[20:19] <molgrum> :P
[20:19] <jonpackard> I'll see if I can find it and I'll let you know
[20:20] <molgrum> would be nice
[20:20] <jonpackard> lol yea - Well gonna go, wife just got home.
[20:37] <kristjan_> ethana2: gnome had once rounded corners in screen, which was cool ... in a way
[20:37] <kristjan_> *rounded screen corners
[20:37] <ethana2> I actually wouldn't prefer that
[20:38] <ethana2> mixed geometry is more complex than sticking to one thing
[20:38] <ethana2> I like to keep things looking sharp
[20:38] <ethana2> with non-rounded corners and reflections and whatnot
[20:40] <kristjan_> did I just lie to you or it used to have rounded corners?
[20:45] <kristjan_> ok I found some proof: http://involution.com/images/gnome22.gif
[21:08] <ethana2> eww, it's like, mac or something
[22:09]  * assasukasse is away: 
[22:15] <jonpackard> is anybody else having trouble with nautilus? at first I thought it was related to my graphics glitching out under the nv driver but it's happening with the vesa driver too (im using geforce 8600gt).. error message:
[22:15] <jonpackard> ** (nautilus:8452): WARNING **: Unable to add monitor: Not supported
[22:15] <jonpackard> Segmentation fault
[22:16] <awalton_1> the warning is meaningless, not all gvfs backends support monitoring, so you get that. the crash otoh, isn't.
[22:17] <awalton_1> run nautilus in gdb and catch the crash, file it on launchpad
[22:20] <jonpackard> i looked at the man file for gdb.. usage is gdm [program] [core or process]
[22:20] <jonpackard> what do i need to give it for the core or process?
[22:21] <awalton_1> if nautilus is already running, quit it first: nautilus -q
[22:21] <awalton_1> then, gdb nautilus
[22:21] <awalton_1> when it crashes, follow the procedure here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace
[22:22] <awalton_1> that will give us the maximum amount of information to work with
[22:22] <jonpackard> ok i did nautilus -q and it shut down..
[22:22] <jonpackard> ran gdb nautilus and it gave me a gdb prompt
[22:23] <awalton_1> type "run" and press return
[22:23] <jonpackard> when i go to open my home folder from the places menu the folder shows on the screen for a spli second and then disappears
[22:24] <jonpackard> here's what i got after typing run in gdb...
[22:24] <jonpackard> ** (nautilus:8864): WARNING **: Unable to add monitor: Not supported
[22:24] <jonpackard> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
[22:24] <jonpackard> [Switching to Thread 0xb6964b90 (LWP 8867)]
[22:24] <jonpackard> 0xb728fc2c in ?? () from /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6
[22:25] <awalton_1> right. now we need to follow the steps outlined on the backtrace page
[22:25] <jonpackard> cool thanks! i never knew how to do that before =)
[22:25] <awalton_1> it's very helpful to us when we're trying to fix problems.
[22:26] <awalton_1> just copy and paste all of the data you get into a file, file a bug and attach it
[22:28] <awalton_1> if you want to leave the bug number in here after you get done copying the trace and uploading it and such, I'll take a look at it later
[22:39] <tomd123> does anyone else have no sound after logging in (but you hear the sound at the beginning of the login screen, not the one after you log in)
[22:40] <jonpackard> i had to switch to ALSA.. my pulseaudio had no sound.. using HDA Nvidia (nForce 430)
[22:41] <tomd123> ok, then it's not just me then :)
[22:42] <tomd123> jonpackard: did you report it/ is it reported?
[22:43] <jonpackard> i haven't reported it or checked it yet.. working on a bigger problem.. my nautilus and now my gedit crash with segfaults =)
[22:44] <tomd123> lol, are they using a developement version of nautilus/gedit <:)
[22:45] <tomd123> nvm, i'll let you find the solution in peace, cya
[22:48] <jonpackard> hmm seems my gedit is fine now but my nautilus is still borked
[22:55] <jonpackard> awalton: I saw your comments on bug 245290.. i think this is my same problem.. im installing those debugging symbols you were talking about now
[22:56] <jonpackard> my dbg still says "no debugging symbols found".. am I doing something wrong?
[22:58] <awalton_1> could just be saying you don't have debug symbols for some other library. if it's important, the stacktrace will have a lot of question marks, and it's not very usable
[22:59] <awalton_1> with the right symbols installed, when you do backtrace full, you'll get a nice pretty display of all of the variables, symbols, etc. for every function up to the crash (most of the time anyways)
[23:00] <jonpackard> thanks :)
[23:07] <jonpackard> bug 245290 updated with backtrace
[23:11] <awalton_1> jonpackard, you're still missing symbols there, try installing the debug package for nautilus.
[23:11] <awalton_1> secondly, I think it's actually a different bug, we seem to be trying to make a themed icon with no icon names, which is definitely a bug
[23:13] <jonpackard> when i try to open a nautilus window (ex. my home folder), the nautilus window tries to open several times and then finally stops.. it flashes on the screen
[23:15] <awalton_1> yeah, whatever the bug is, it's crashing nautilus over and over again, and the session manager keeps restarting it
[23:15] <awalton_1> one of these days, the session manager will learn not to do that, but that day may be in a star trek future...
[23:16] <G_009> and that was after todays update?
[23:17] <awalton_1> G_009, getting a similar issue?
[23:17] <G_009> just wondering if you also rebooted your system at any point
[23:18] <awalton_1> not me, but I'm not having the trouble :)
[23:18] <awalton_1> I'm also up to trunk with glib and nautilus though, so it could be something we already fixed and don't know it yet. though I kind of doubt it.
[23:19] <G_009> i see.. me neither .. but i dont want to do a system restart and find out
[23:19] <jonpackard> ill reboot and check again
[23:20] <awalton_1> jonpackard, and install those nautilus symbols ;)
[23:21] <jonpackard> any idea about the package name?
[23:22] <awalton_1> nautilus-dbg iirc
[23:23] <Amaranth> awalton_1: why would the session manager not restart a crashed application?
[23:24] <awalton_1> Amaranth, in an infinite loop?
[23:24] <Amaranth> i thought it only tried 10 times
[23:24] <jonpackard> installing nautilus-dbg.. hope thats the one
[23:24] <awalton_1> it's definitely tried more than 10 times here :)
[23:24] <Amaranth> anyway, isn't that the application's fault?
[23:24] <Amaranth> it tells the session manager to restart it
[23:24] <awalton_1> absolutely. but you'd think it'd be able to say "hey, wait a second"
[23:24] <jonpackard> BBL rebooting =)
[23:25] <Amaranth> should create a file on launch then remove it after 30 seconds or something
[23:25] <Amaranth> and if it detects the file don't put itself in restart mode
[23:26] <Amaranth> then it'll crash, try to launch, crash again, try to launch, crash again, and stay gone
[23:26] <awalton_1> I'd be happy with "this application has crashed $HUGE_NUMBER times. [Report Crash]"
[23:27] <awalton_1> but it's not my area. I'm just a lowly fm hacker.
[23:29] <awalton_1> it's strange to me that all of these gio-related crashers are only starting to happen now, I could swear the code hasn't changed that much since 2.16
[23:41] <jonpackard> rebooted.. nautilus problem still there
[23:47] <esac> anybody running alpha in vmware ? it booted and i logged in, and now it is just sitting at a brown screen
[23:56] <jonpackard> esac: ive had really good success with virtualbox (non-ose).. you can get it at virtualbox.org
[23:58] <jonpackard> if you decide to try it, I have two tips...
[23:59] <jonpackard> If you get a kernel panic.. don't panic, just reset your guest.. it may take a couple tries but it happens right away so it's not a problem