[00:00] <edvard> i guess they fixed that after I switched to xscreensaver
[00:00] <TheSheep> obviously everyone has some application preferences, but we can't please everyone
[00:01] <edvard> totally, i fully agree. Just that the focus of xubuntu was supposed to be on window-manager neutral apps as much as possible
[00:01] <edvard> avoiding kdelibs and gnome-libs wherever necessary
[00:02] <edvard> and then they go and throw in gnome-screensaver when xscreensaver worked just fine
[00:02] <edvard> annoyed me just a tad...
[00:03] <edvard> i remember
[00:03] <TheSheep> edvard: well, GNOME has this habit of including the best gtk applications into it
[00:03] <TheSheep> edvard: ad turning them into gnome apps
[00:04] <edvard> true, but not all of them require gnome-libs
[00:05] <edvard> i remember the problem... xscreensaver lets you configure which text file to use in the screensavers that take text input.
[00:05] <TheSheep> edvard: gnome-screensaver uses exactly one gnome library
[00:05] <edvard> cant do that with gnome-screensaver
[00:05] <TheSheep> edvard: libgnome-menu.so.2
[00:05] <edvard> sure, we can't avoid them all, I agree.
[00:05] <TheSheep> ldd /usr/bin/gnome-screensaver | less
[00:06] <TheSheep> oh, and gconf
[00:06] <edvard> but i will argue that xscreensaver is *better* and would use one less gnome lib
[00:06] <TheSheep> gosh, how I hate gconf :/
[00:06] <edvard> mmm true
[00:06] <TheSheep> there were issues with xscreensaver too
[00:07] <edvard> ?
[00:07] <TheSheep> iirc, media players couldn't disable it
[00:07] <TheSheep> when playing movies
[00:07] <edvard> oh, that
[00:07] <edvard> yah that's annoying
[00:07] <TheSheep> can't remember more
[00:08] <edvard> or when your recording something, having your stream interrupted by flying toasters doesn't sound pretty
[00:08] <edvard> I just made a habit of turning screensavers off when I was recording
[00:09] <TheSheep> edvard: I'd really have stripped version of some og gnome programs, instead of having poorly supported additional apps
[00:09] <TheSheep> of
[00:09] <edvard> yes, that would be better for some things
[00:09] <TheSheep> I guess if you really want xscreensaver, you should offer to care for the package
[00:10] <edvard> that's an idea
[00:11] <edvard> you know what i would really like? a gtk version of k3b.
[00:13] <TheSheep> there were some attempts
[00:13] <edvard> really?
[00:13] <edvard> don't tell me they named it Brasero
[00:13] <TheSheep> yeah, someone even wated to make a general purpose burning library
[00:13] <edvard> XD
[00:13] <edvard> not a bad idea
[00:14] <TheSheep> I nvere heard of him since
[00:14] <edvard> most of those things are just a front end for cdrdao and cdrparanoia anyways, it shouldn't be *too* hard, you think?
[00:15] <edvard> and if cdrdao, etc work well enough, it seems a burning lib would be superfluous
[00:15] <TheSheep> no idea, debugging it requires a lot of work and knowledge, I would think
[00:15] <edvard> sure
[00:16] <TheSheep> especially when ubuntu can't ship cdrecord
[00:16] <edvard> ?
[00:16] <edvard> the cdrecord is proprietary?
[00:16] <TheSheep> patens and silly american laws
[00:16] <TheSheep> patents
[00:16] <TheSheep> and that thing about dvd key or something
[00:16] <TheSheep> not sure exactly, silly law problems
[00:17] <TheSheep> ah, and cdrecord has some stupid license
[00:17] <edvard> the dvd key issue is downright stupid
[00:17] <edvard> oh, license
[00:17] <edvard> still stupid
[00:18] <TheSheep> they basically allow you personal use, but require some activation keys for advanced users and I think for corporate use
[00:18] <TheSheep> something like that, can't remember
[00:18] <edvard> what qualifies as an "advanced user"
[00:18] <edvard> ?
[00:18] <TheSheep> no idea
[00:19] <TheSheep> I'm sure you can find it with google easily
[00:19] <TheSheep> anyways, ubuntu uses wodim instead
[00:19] <edvard> ah
[00:19] <TheSheep> which was made compatible to some extent, but not fully
[00:19] <edvard> so a gpl burning lib wouldn't be a bad idea after all
[00:20] <TheSheep> yeah
[00:21] <edvard> hmm says here cdrtools is gpl :http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/cdr-faq.html
[00:22] <edvard> wait, no it doesn't just says it's open source
[00:25] <edvard> interesting: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/dvd-source-why.html
[00:25] <edvard> hey cody
[00:25] <edvard> i was just talking about you
[00:31] <edvard> i remember, it was the dvd css key that was causing all the trouble a little while ago
[00:32] <cody-somerville> ahhhh... okay
[00:32] <cody-somerville> :]
[00:35] <Ultraputz> TheSheep?
[00:35] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: yes?
[00:35] <edvard> actually i was discussing some ideas i had for xubuntu before sending you an email
[00:36] <Ultraputz> gnome's panels the same as the panels used in XFCE?
[00:36] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: no
[00:36] <edvard> congrats on being commissioned head of this project
[00:36] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: but there is a panel plugin that lets you use the gnome's panel applets
[00:37] <Ultraputz> what i was more wondering pertains to both, but i'll ask the xfce version here: in the task switcher, is it possible to have it display icons w/o menu text?
[00:37] <edvard> Ultraputz: and xfce will pay attention to some gconf settings, like panel backgrounds and such
[00:37] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: you can use the iconbox instead
[00:37] <Ultraputz> iconbox?
[00:37] <Ultraputz> is it in synaptic or already present?
[00:38] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: it's a panel plugin similar to the task switcher, just displays icons instead
[00:38] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: yes
[00:38] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: xfc4-plugin-iconbox or some such
[00:38] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: search for iconbox
[00:38] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: I believe the gnome's task switcher can display icons alone, btw
[00:39] <edvard> Ultraputz: in the xfce-settings manager, make a new panel and add the iconbox plugin. it's there (i think it's called "li'l star iconbox")
[00:39] <Ultraputz> theSheep - if you know how, i'm all ears.
[00:40] <Ultraputz> TheSheep, edvard: thanks.
[00:40] <TheSheep> I was actually having a different idea, and maybe one day I will get to try to write it -- a launcher that launches the app if it's not running, but just switches to it if it's launched already
[00:40] <TheSheep> kinda to emulate how macos does it
[00:40] <Ultraputz> you mean like the mac doc
[00:40] <Ultraputz> ja
[00:40] <Ultraputz> that's basically what i'm looking for
[00:41] <Ultraputz> and the switcher w/ text wastes too much desktop real estate.
[00:41] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: I don't use switcher at all, just a large workspace switcher
[00:41] <TheSheep> and an iconbox for minimized windows
[00:41] <Ultraputz> i don't use virtual desktops, never cared for them.
[00:41] <TheSheep> (you can make it show minimized windows only)
[00:41] <edvard> cody-somerville: I read throught the xubuntu strategy document
[00:41] <edvard> nice
[00:42] <cody-somerville> edvard, thank you :)
[00:42] <Ultraputz> strategy: to kill kde in their sleep.
[00:42] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: kde is ok as long as their developers don't try to write gtk apps ;)
[00:43] <edvard> i'd like to help, but it says (in a nutshell) i need to be experienced with supporting elsewhere.
[00:43] <TheSheep> and to put a theme customization menu in every application
[00:43] <Ultraputz> no, the rest of the world _really_ wants the KDE look.
[00:43] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: if it makes them happy...
[00:43] <cody-somerville> edvard, You got the impression from the document that you need experience elsewhere to help out Xubuntu?
[00:43]  * cody-somerville has to run. be back soon.
[00:44] <edvard> ok, later i'll explain in an email later ok?
[00:45] <edvard> hey, i was pretty smitten by the crystall icon set for awhile, too
[00:45] <TheSheep> edvard: Oxygen is extra ugly
[00:45] <edvard> ooh yeah
[00:45] <edvard> i forgot about oxygen
[00:45] <edvard> ick
[00:46] <TheSheep> they really have macosx complex :)
[00:46] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: btw, you might wat to try AWN
[00:46] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: avan window navigator
[00:46] <TheSheep> avant
[00:46] <Ultraputz> TheSheep - i would, but neither machine has the video hardware to do compositing
[00:46] <TheSheep> ah
[00:46] <TheSheep> too bad
[00:46] <Ultraputz> i'm building a new box that will, eventually
[00:47] <edvard> to quote someone on the donationcoder forum... "...it's as if applications will run faster because the rounded corners on the gui reduce wind resistance..."
[00:47] <TheSheep> edvard: rounded corners *are* esier on the eyes
[00:47] <edvard> yeah. i admit that
[00:48] <edvard> but every little button and box?
[00:48] <Ultraputz> edvard - yes
[00:48] <TheSheep> edvard: actually gui fashins change periodically, oscilating between rounded and straight, just like fashions for computer cases and such
[00:48] <Ultraputz> otherwise you have design inconsistency
[00:48] <edvard> yes, just look at the cries of inconsistency over the new mac interface for firefox
[00:49] <Ultraputz> there would be room to talk 15 years ago, but not today
[00:49] <Ultraputz> apple from os x on has kind of dropped the ball big time
[00:49] <Ultraputz> the question is no longer "does this meet guidelines" but, "Does the demo impress the old man?"
[00:49] <TheSheep> one trend that seems to be consistent is that cases for various hardware gets less and less spacing/margins between various elements
[00:49] <edvard> hehe
[00:49] <edvard> ooh i hate that
[00:50] <Ultraputz> more and more of it is just an issue of lifecycle
[00:50] <edvard> thankfully i've never had to deal with a double-space graphic card
[00:50] <Ultraputz> once, you bought a computer, and upgraded it, a component at a time, like replacing planks on an old ship
[00:50] <Ultraputz> today, they're expendable appliances.
[00:50] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: you know about the plastic they use to make ipods?
[00:51] <Ultraputz> nope. wouldn't own a personal isolation unit. :-)
[00:51] <edvard> and why are the power supplies in modern computers so touchy?
[00:51] <Ultraputz> edvard - to sell more power supplies
[00:51] <edvard> i've blown 3 so far just sneezing at it
[00:51] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: it's pretty sturdy, but they made it shiny so that it wears off quickly and shows it's not brand new after several months
[00:51] <Ultraputz> what about the plastic TheSheep
[00:52] <edvard> Ultraputz: the old Ford trick, eh
[00:52] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: they have specifically chosen the material that would do that
[00:52] <Ultraputz> oh, of course.
[00:52] <Ultraputz> that makes sure the fashionable are ready to upgrade on command.
[00:52] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: so that you take it out of your pocket and everyone looks and say "wow, that's an old ipod you have there"
[00:52] <edvard> LOL
[00:52] <Ultraputz> did you see david lynch's comment on the iphone?
[00:53] <edvard> that was good
[00:53] <TheSheep> no
[00:53] <Ultraputz> you should see what people say when you pull out an old newton
[00:53] <Ultraputz> "what the hell is that?!"
[00:53] <Ultraputz> "it's a biological weapon. be nice to me."
[00:53]  * TheSheep still waits for OpenMoko
[00:53] <Ultraputz> amen
[00:54] <TheSheep> the idea of carrying one device instead of 4 is somehow appealing
[00:54]  * Ultraputz waits for a linux hwr engine that does not <abusive verb>
[00:54] <edvard> TheSheep: look up "david lynch iphone" on youtube sometime
[00:55] <Ultraputz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0
[00:55] <TheSheep> edvard: I wonder who sponsors it...
[00:55] <Ultraputz> david lynch heavy industries, inc.
[00:55] <edvard> dunno
[00:56] <edvard> i liked maddox's somewhat colorful opinion of the iphone
[00:56] <Ultraputz> meh?
[00:56] <edvard> not for the squeamish: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone
[00:57] <edvard> besides the foul-mouthed juvenility, it is rather funny
[00:59] <TheSheep> what you say about mving this to xubuntu-offtopic? :)
[00:59] <Ultraputz> that was beautiful
[01:00] <Ultraputz> that was carlinworthy, god rest his soul.
[01:00] <TheSheep> I have some rant to do about tactile feedback ;)
[01:00] <edvard> hehe i'd love to participate, but I gotta run
[01:01] <edvard> good evening gentlemen, and have a nice independence day if you happen to live in the us
[01:02] <edvard> in other words, don't burn anything down for pete's sake
[01:02] <Ultraputz> it feels rather ironic celebrating "independence" with the us's present debt and oil issues.
[01:02] <edvard> until china makes good on what we owe them, it's a beautiful illusion
[01:03] <edvard> gotta go
[01:03] <Ultraputz> cheers yo
[01:03] <Ultraputz> happy 4.
[01:03] <edvard> u2
[01:04] <Ultraputz> hrm. seems to be no gnome equiv for iconbox
[01:05] <Ultraputz> it's perfect
[01:05] <Ultraputz> oh well, the laptop is the faster machine anyway. :-)
[01:06] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: in gnome the standard task manager can display only icons
[01:07] <Ultraputz> hoe ?
[01:07] <Ultraputz> er how ?
[01:07] <Ultraputz> looking at window list preferences, nothing like that there
[01:07] <TheSheep> hmm.. maybe I remember incorrectly
[01:08] <TheSheep> haven't seen gnome for 1.5 year
[01:08] <Ultraputz> i don't suppose there's a way to run xfce plugins in gnome panels?
[01:08] <TheSheep> no :)
[01:08] <TheSheep> at least I don't know about anything like that, but I don't know everything
[01:09] <TheSheep> (yet)
[01:09] <Ultraputz> oh no. another transhumanist.
[01:09] <Ultraputz> :-)
[01:09] <TheSheep> Ultraputz: you have something against transhumanizm? ;)
[01:10] <Ultraputz> i've found that transhumanists make bad dates.
[01:12] <Ultraputz> bbl
[01:12] <Ultraputz> thanks chief
[01:34] <supertanker> Is it normal applications in Xubuntu to 'freeze' for a short time? Especially firefox 3?
[01:35] <Odd-rationale> supertanker: what are your computer specs?
[01:35] <TheSheep> supertanker: that's a bug in firefox, or more precisely, in the falsh plugin
[01:35] <TheSheep> flash
[01:35] <supertanker> Odd-rationale: Athlon 3800+ X2 (In I386), 1GB ram, Nvidia 6510 video card
[01:35] <Odd-rationale> hmm. only in xubuntu?
[01:35] <Odd-rationale> TheSheep: ?
[01:36] <supertanker> Yeah
[01:36] <supertanker> No flash plugin that I know of for Firefox installed ATM
[01:36] <supertanker> Also
[01:36] <supertanker> Other apps (including the console emulator for XFCE and Xterm) will lock up for a short while to
[01:36] <supertanker> too
[01:36] <supertanker> It's exceedingly irritating
[01:37] <TheSheep> Bug 23616
[01:38] <TheSheep> Bug 82932
[01:38] <supertanker> I don't USE flash
[01:38] <TheSheep> Bug 107093
[01:38] <TheSheep> supertanker: the second one is about java
[01:39] <supertanker> I don't use Java either!
[01:39] <TheSheep> and the third one is not yet known
[01:39] <supertanker> This is a near fresh Xubuntu install
[01:39] <TheSheep> well, if you are sure it's not any of the reported bugs, then please report a ew one
[01:39] <TheSheep> new
[01:40] <TheSheep> anything in dmesg?
[01:40] <magic_ninjai> got it
[01:40] <magic_ninjai> sup sheep
[01:40] <TheSheep> hey magic_ninjai
[01:40] <magic_ninjai> lol
[01:40] <supertanker> Lemme look
[01:41] <supertanker> Not that I see
[01:42] <TheSheep> does your caps-lock/num-lock and mouse work when it freezes?
[01:43] <TheSheep> can you reproduce the freezing, does it happen more frequently in any situation, or is it completely random?
[01:43] <supertanker> Yeah
[01:43] <supertanker> I can still switch between apps usually
[01:43] <supertanker> But Firefox won't respond (usually), and I can't switch channels in IRSSI, for example
[01:43] <TheSheep> is any other application running in the background that could cause it?
[01:43] <supertanker> But the mouse and alt-tab work
[01:43] <supertanker> Firefox?
[01:44] <TheSheep> for example, I noticed that package upgrades tend to take up 100% of cpu for a short while after upgrading
[01:44] <TheSheep> even on multicore computers
[01:44] <TheSheep> that effectively freezes most apps
[01:44] <supertanker> Hahaha
[01:45] <supertanker> I have dialup
[01:45] <supertanker> Do you think I'd be updating right now?
[01:45] <TheSheep> supertanker: how am I supposed to know it?
[01:45] <TheSheep> that's why I'm asking these questions
[01:45] <supertanker> Sorry
[01:45] <supertanker> Everyone irritates me about it
[01:45] <supertanker> I get pissed off when people tell me to 'get dsl plz'
[01:46] <TheSheep> I'm not telling you to get dsl :)
[01:46] <TheSheep> I'm trying to help you formulate you your bug report
[01:47] <supertanker> Thank you
[01:47] <supertanker> :D
[01:47] <supertanker> It seems to be random too
[01:47] <supertanker> I'm not sure what causes it
[01:47] <supertanker> IE, it hasn't in the last 30 minutes
[01:49] <supertanker> I'm going on random websites with loads of javascript, etc, to see if I can get it to do it again
[01:49] <TheSheep> try to open top in a terminal in background and see if some app jumps to the top when the freeze happens
[01:49] <supertanker> All right
[01:50] <supertanker> Woah
[01:50] <supertanker> X is using 14% of my CPU
[01:50] <TheSheep> probably some animated gif in firefox...
[01:50] <supertanker> Hash
[01:50] <supertanker> hah*
[01:51] <supertanker> Totem, which I just started, is using 5%
[01:51] <supertanker> And GtkRadiant is using half my ram
[01:51] <supertanker> (It's a video game map editor)
[01:51] <TheSheep> GtkRadiant?
[01:51] <TheSheep> ah
[01:52] <TheSheep> you could also look at the cpu usage graph in system monitor
[01:53] <supertanker> System monitor?
[01:53] <supertanker> Oh
[01:53] <supertanker> That application clearly marked, "System Monitor"
[01:53] <supertanker> Could that be it? :P
[01:53] <TheSheep> yes, unless you are French
[01:54] <supertanker> CPUs are holding steady at about 10-20% for each core
[01:54] <supertanker> :P
[01:54] <TheSheep> even when it "freezes"?
[01:54] <supertanker> It hasn't yet
[01:54] <supertanker> Which is weird
[01:54] <supertanker> Because it was doing it all day earlier
[01:54] <supertanker> Even using Radiant heavily isn't causing it to do that
[01:55] <TheSheep> are the graphs for your two cores symmetric?
[01:55] <supertanker> Any way to get my system monitor to float above my desktop like in Damn SmalL Linux, where it has that OSD-Like system report that stays in the upper-right hand of my desktop?
[01:55] <supertanker> TheSheep: They're in a rough double-helix shape
[01:55] <TheSheep> fun :)
[01:56] <TheSheep> supertanker: you can right-click on the title bar and enable 'always on top'
[01:56] <supertanker> They spike at about the same time when I do something like load my entire game's texture/ directory
[01:56] <TheSheep> supertanker: and 'show on all worksapces'
[01:56] <supertanker> Meh
[01:56] <supertanker> That's not quite what I meant
[01:56] <supertanker> It has no window
[01:56] <supertanker> It's like the text on a VCR or DVD player
[01:56] <supertanker> On Screen Display
[01:57] <TheSheep> not with system monitor
[01:57] <supertanker> Aww
[01:57] <supertanker> Still hasn't locked
[01:57] <supertanker> odd
[01:57] <TheSheep> you can also hold down alt and scroll your mouse wheel on the title bar to make it translucent :)
[01:58] <TheSheep> (if you have compositing enabled)
[01:58] <supertanker> Thanks for helping by the way, in case I don't get this solved
[01:58] <supertanker> I grabbed Xubuntu because #fedora was NOT helping at all when I hosed my nvidia driver somehow
[01:58] <supertanker> I'm the kind of person who really shouldn't have root access on my own system :P
[02:00] <supertanker> While I'm here, is there any easy way to increase openGL performance?
[02:00] <supertanker> I have the nvidia-glx-new package
[02:00] <supertanker> I get about 70 FPS in a game at 1024x768 resolution
[02:00] <supertanker> This game should be getting about ~120
[02:01] <TheSheep> hmm... I'm not sure
[02:01] <TheSheep> you could search teh forum
[02:01] <supertanker> Ah well
[02:01] <supertanker> I'm just glad to have OpenGL again
[02:01] <TheSheep> I'm not really into games so I never looked at it
[02:01] <supertanker> I map for video games
[02:02] <supertanker> I have a map to finish by the 20th for a contest
[02:02] <TheSheep> I play roguelikes :)
[02:02] <supertanker> OpenGL went ker-splat in Fedora a few days ago and I lost sleep :>
[02:02] <TheSheep> text mode is fast enoufgh for me
[02:02] <supertanker> Huh
[02:02] <supertanker> X is still taking up an inorderate amount of CPU time
[02:03] <supertanker> ~30%
[02:03] <supertanker> Is that for both my cores or just one?
[02:03] <TheSheep> both
[02:03] <TheSheep> no wait
[02:03] <TheSheep> if both your cores were busy, it would show 200% I think
[02:04] <supertanker> WTF
[02:04] <supertanker> It just said 652%
[02:04] <supertanker> Well, getting rid of totem
[02:04] <TheSheep> you're sure it's only a double core? %)
[02:04] <supertanker> 's fugly visualization dropped it to 19
[02:04] <supertanker> Yeah
[02:04] <supertanker> I'm sure
[02:04] <supertanker> I want a quadcore :<
[02:05] <TheSheep> supertanker: get ps3 ;)
[02:05] <supertanker> Get what?
[02:05] <TheSheep> playstation 3, I've heard it has some kickass cpu :)
[02:06] <supertanker> I don't play those types of games much
[02:06] <supertanker> I map for older games, like the Q3 based Tremulous
[02:06] <TheSheep> supertanker: well, you install linux on it and play whatever you want...
[02:06] <supertanker> Heh
[02:06] <TheSheep> just kidding of course
[02:07] <supertanker> Sorry, don't have $500 right now, or I'd be building my own dream system
[02:07] <supertanker> Hmm
[02:07] <supertanker> System just had a mini freeze for about 5 seconds
[02:07] <supertanker> I managed to get to top and Xorg was up at 50% CPU
[02:07] <supertanker> Both cores
[02:08] <supertanker> A few seconds later Core 2 jumped back up to 50% as well
[02:08] <supertanker> And again, for about 20 seconds
[02:09] <TheSheep> ... might be something with nvidia...
[02:09] <supertanker> Didn't let me get to top this time
[02:09] <supertanker> How odd
[02:09] <supertanker> I was starting to type 'google.com' into the Firefox address box
[02:09] <TheSheep> try system monitor, it has this graph that will show you spikes even if you don't manage to switch in time
[02:10] <supertanker> I think it's something to do with FF3's address bar
[02:10] <supertanker> Because it just did it again
[02:10] <supertanker> That auto-lookup is bloody annoying
[02:12] <supertanker> Did it a third time: it's definitely something to do with that address bar and the way it tries to fill in the blanks for you
[02:12] <supertanker> I really don't like FS3
[02:12] <supertanker> FF3*
[02:13] <supertanker> Occasionally it locks up by itself but doesn't take the rest of the computer with it
[02:13] <supertanker> But that address bar locks up the entire machine for about 20 seconds
[02:13] <Proweler> Is it correct that apache package isn't in apt-get?
[02:13] <Proweler> *the apache package
[02:14] <supertanker> Whoops. Now FF is totally locked
[02:20] <supertanker> My hard drive is like constantly on
[02:20] <supertanker> But my ram usage is only at 500MB out of 1024
[02:31] <cody-somerville> supertanker, same here
[02:33] <supertanker> Bleg
[02:41] <TheSheep> supertanker: in about:config there are two interesting entries if you search for 'complete'
[02:41] <TheSheep> supertanker: in ff3
[02:59] <Proweler> I got apache compiled and working
[02:59] <Proweler> yay me!
[03:00] <supertanker> Yay!
[03:00] <supertanker> Now get PHP and MySQL as well, and get them ALL working together
[03:01] <Proweler> hehe
[03:02] <Proweler> That gives problems?
[03:04] <TheSheep> Proweler: why didn't use the package?
[03:04] <TheSheep> !info lamp
[03:04] <TheSheep> !info apache2
[03:04] <Proweler> just trying to learn stuff, being stupid helps :)
[03:08] <gaurdro> if you're installing the server a lamp server is one of the options
[03:15] <Prow> mmh
[03:16] <Prow> when the router goes down and drops all DHCP leases, xubuntu doesn't detect this and sticks to the old DHCP lease.
[03:21] <RadXubuntu> hi anybody?
[03:21] <TheSheep> RadXubuntu: hi
[03:22] <RadXubuntu> just curious to see if anybody could help me get my USB numpad working for my laptop? just installed the latest Xubuntu
[03:22] <TheSheep> Prow: there is no way it can tell, it usually asks for a lease again after some timeout though
[03:22] <TheSheep> RadXubuntu: it doesn't work?
[03:22] <TheSheep> RadXubuntu: does 'lsusb' in terminal list it?
[03:22]  * RadXubuntu a bit of a linux newb lol
[03:23] <TheSheep> Prow: the timeout is configured in the router
[03:23] <RadXubuntu> let me try that command
[03:24] <RadXubuntu> got this listed,
[03:24] <RadXubuntu> Bus 002 Device 007: ID 0781:5406 SanDisk Corp. Cruzer Micro 4GB Flash Drive
[03:24] <RadXubuntu> Bus 002 Device 006: ID 0eef:0001 D-WAV Scientific Co., Ltd eGalax TouchScreen
[03:24] <RadXubuntu> Bus 002 Device 005: ID 08ff:1600 AuthenTec, Inc.
[03:24] <RadXubuntu> Bus 002 Device 004: ID 0c45:62c0 Microdia
[03:24] <RadXubuntu> Bus 002 Device 002: ID 04b4:6560 Cypress Semiconductor Corp. CY7C65640 USB-2.0 "TetraHub"
[03:24] <RadXubuntu> Bus 002 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
[03:24] <RadXubuntu> Bus 001 Device 010: ID 1241:1503 Belkin
[03:24] <RadXubuntu> Bus 001 Device 009: ID 046d:c51b Logitech, Inc.
[03:24] <RadXubuntu> Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
[03:25] <RadXubuntu> my numpad is made from the company, slimlink keyboard if that any help
[03:28] <RadXubuntu> ?
[03:29] <TheSheep> :/
[03:29] <TheSheep> I guess it's not visible
[03:29] <TheSheep> please use pastebin to paste longer texts in the future
[03:29] <TheSheep> !pastebin
[03:30] <TheSheep> RadXubuntu: try "dmesg | tail" and see what it displays right after when you connect the numpad
[03:30] <RadXubuntu> ok, sorry about flooding
[03:30] <RadXubuntu> let me try that
[03:30] <RadXubuntu> and gimme a sec to check out the pastebin
[03:33] <RadXubuntu> umm how do i use the pastebin? i see the download as text?
[03:34] <RadXubuntu> ?
[03:34] <TheSheep> you just paste your text into the textarea, and press 'paste!, then paste the url here
[03:35] <RadXubuntu> paste!
[03:35] <TheSheep> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24883/ <-- like this
[03:35] <RadXubuntu> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24882/
[03:35] <RadXubuntu> i see lol. thanks :D
[03:35] <TheSheep> looks like it detects your numpad
[03:36] <TheSheep> what does lsubs show under 0000:00:0b.0 ?
[03:36] <RadXubuntu> i wonder why it didn't detect it earlier
[03:36] <RadXubuntu> ?
[03:37] <RadXubuntu> that all i see in the terminal
[03:37] <TheSheep> sorry, that's not the id :/
[03:37] <TheSheep> anyways, does it work now?
[03:38] <RadXubuntu> yeah it does :) lemme try it out in Blender3D
[03:38] <RadXubuntu> works perfectly :D
[03:39] <RadXubuntu> that was the main reason why I got the USB Numpad. so I could use it in Blender3D.
[03:40] <TheSheep> well, glad it's fixed, I suppose it had some connectivity problem.. although your dmesg does mention it was disconnected before
[03:40] <TheSheep> maybe report a bug if it repeats
[03:41] <RadXubuntu> yeah how do I do that? I defidently want to learn more about Linux Xubuntu over time
[03:41] <TheSheep> !bugs
[03:42] <RadXubuntu> thanks :) I've bookmarked the page
[03:43] <TheSheep> I think you need to create an account, unfortunately
[03:44] <RadXubuntu> :(
[03:44] <RadXubuntu> i'll do that if I run into this problem repeatly
[03:45] <TheSheep> yeah
[03:45] <RadXubuntu> thanks again for helping me out :D
[03:46] <TheSheep> I didn't do anything :)
[03:47] <RadXubuntu> lol, well you made me do SOMETHING that somehow connected the thing soo...
[03:47] <RadXubuntu> thanks
[05:30] <darcy> anyone know why add remove would freeze on an install
[05:31] <j1mc> darcy: add/remove programs?
[05:32] <darcy> yup
[05:33] <j1mc> darcy: are you trying to use add-remove programs from the live-cd?
[05:33] <darcy> it will get to the screen that you approve the download/install, then if goes into the thinking cursor and never stops.
[05:33] <darcy> I'm doing it from the internet
[05:34] <j1mc> hm...
[05:34] <j1mc> darcy: can you try updating from the command line?
[05:35] <j1mc> do you know how to do that?
[05:35] <darcy> no, could you walk me through it?
[05:35] <j1mc> sure.  what program are you trying to install?
[05:36] <j1mc> darcy: xubuntu is actually installed on your computer, though, right?
[05:36] <darcy> yes it is. I'm not running of CD
[05:37] <j1mc> ok.
[05:37] <j1mc> the command is, "sudo aptitude install [program name]"  (without the quotes)
[05:38] <darcy> Rhythmbox Music Player and
[05:39] <j1mc> if you aren't sure of the program name, you can type "apt-cache search [name]"
[05:39] <j1mc> darcy: in this case, you can type, "sudo aptitude install rhythmbox"
[05:40] <j1mc> it will install rhythmbox and all of the required dependencies
[05:40] <darcy> is there a program that you know of that can convert from xvid to dvd in linux
[05:41] <j1mc> hm, that i don't know, unfortunately
[05:41] <darcy> I used to use ConvertXtoDVD with windows
[05:41] <darcy> I download through a torrent and then need to convert to burn to dvd for viewing.
[05:41] <j1mc> if you search, you may find something, but i can't promise anything
[05:43] <darcy> is there a control-alt-delete type of function with linux where you can override a program when it is "stuck" and cancel it
[05:43] <j1mc> if it is a command-line function, you can enter "ctrl-c"
[05:44] <j1mc> if it is a regular program, you can type, "killall [name of program]"
[05:45] <j1mc> darcy: sorry, but i need to go soon, is there anything else you need?
[05:45] <darcy> that helps me for now, I don't have much "learning" time tonight. Thank you for your help...
[05:47] <j1mc> you're welcome.  good luck!  =)
[06:27] <jarnos> Please help, I have very small font in Thunar. How do you make it bigger?
[07:00] <homebrewcider> hi there, xubuntu 7.10 used to auto mount my sony walkman mp3 player, 8.04 does not and i have no idea what to do, please help
[07:11] <jarnos> In Thunar preferences there is volume managment, but the link "configure" does not work.
[07:13] <TheSheep> jarnos: do you have thunar-volume-manager installed?
[07:14] <TheSheep> sorry, it's thunar-volman
[07:14] <jarnos> TheSheep: I can't find such a package in repositories.
[07:15] <jarnos> TheSheep: But thunar-volman is installed.
[07:16] <TheSheep> what happens when you run it with -c option?
[07:24] <jarnos> TheSheep: it runs as expected; I can launch it from Applications > Settings > Settings Manager > Removable Drives and media
[07:25] <jarnos> TheSheep: Now I can run it from Thunar Preferences, too. I don't know why I couldn't before. Maybe due to small font I can't make bigger.
[07:26] <TheSheep> jarnos: the font settings in user interface settings don't work? and the dpi settings?
[07:27] <jarnos> TheSheep: I Ended Thunar by the System monitor and restarted it: now font is bigger.
[07:27] <homebrewcider> hey there, got cut off before, Xubuntu 7.10 used to auto mount my sony walkman mp3 player, 8.04 does not, and i have no idea what to do, please help.
[07:27] <jarnos> homebrewcider: Applications > Settings > Settings Manager > Removable Drives and media
[07:27] <TheSheep> homebrewcider: does it see it at all? try 'lsusb' in a terminal (don't paste the result, ust see if it's on the list)
[07:28] <jarnos> homebrewcider: or thunar preferences
[07:30] <homebrewcider> typed lsusb, seems to be listed there, well, a sony entry is
[07:32] <homebrewcider> I enabled the portable music setting in thunar pref
[07:32] <homebrewcider> no change yet, must I log out?
[07:35] <homebrewcider> I'll log out and back in anyway
[07:38] <homebrewcider> nope nothing
[07:42] <TheSheep> homebrewcider: disconnect it, connect back and see 'dmesg | tail'
[07:42] <TheSheep> homebrewcider: any errors?
[07:45] <homebrewcider> lots of "attempt to access beyond end of device"
[07:48] <homebrewcider> it shows up in HAL device manager as sony walkman
[07:59] <homebrewcider> mmm, don't understand this, before upgrading to 8.04, when I plugged it in, it would mount, and open in thunar all ready to go
[07:59] <homebrewcider> now, with 8.04, nothing
[08:00] <TheSheep> looks like it has problems with the filesystem on it
[08:01] <homebrewcider> on the walkman?
[08:03] <TheSheep> yeah, might be a bug in the driver or corrupted filesystem or anthing really
[08:04] <homebrewcider> I doubt it,  same walkman, with no new music on it since before the upgrading of xubuntu,
[08:04] <homebrewcider> a few things have happened since upgrading , this is just one more
[08:05] <TheSheep> homebrewcider: did you look for reported bugs on it?
[08:05] <homebrewcider> where would i do that?
[08:05] <TheSheep> !bugs
[08:05] <TheSheep> therem ight be a woraround there too
[08:06] <TheSheep> if it's not reported, please report it
[08:08] <homebrewcider> ok cheers
[09:36] <houbysoft> zoredache : hi, I'm updating to hardy, the download size is 892MB
[11:51] <Aquina> hy everyone! :-)
[11:59] <Aquina> I've got the same old problem with the login screen in a much to high resolution. Is there anyone in here who can help me with that? I already had a look into the xorg.cong and found a lin statin' that its always auto generated. So there's not much to edit in there, huh?
[12:00] <julian_> Ist das hier deutscher Xubuntu-Support?
[12:00] <julian_> Do you speek german?
[12:01] <arf`> Aquina: in the xorg.conf file, in the Section "Screen", you can add the following
[12:01] <arf`> SubSection "Display"
[12:01] <Aquina> Kein Plan aber ich sprech' deutsch. Hy!
[12:01] <arf`> arg
[12:02] <apache2conf> hello where i can get ubuntu server 8.04 default apache2 conf ? lamp installed
[12:03] <Aquina> thx, arf` I'll give it a try. One question remaining: Why does free give me a value of 800 Megs of RAM in use while the graphical system monitor shows that only 28% of RAM is in use?
[12:03] <arf`> Aquina: wait, i'll pastebin the whole
[12:03] <Aquina> :-)
[12:05] <arf`> Aquina: http://paste.ubuntu.com/24958/
[12:05] <arf`> juste use tabs instead of spaces (for esthetic), and replace the "1280x1024" and so on values with what you want
[12:06] <arf`> Aquina: the login screen start on the higher value, and you can choose among the others in your desktop preferences
[12:07] <Aquina> Thank you, arf`! :-)))
[12:07] <arf`> Aquina: by the way, i wax this doesn't work, sometimes, it seems to depend on the graphic card
[12:08] <arf`> wax... uhuh, saw
[12:09] <Aquina> I see.
[12:13] <Aquina> arf` can you also tell me why the command "free" tells me 800 megs of RAM are in use while sysmon actually tells me there are ony 28% of the whole memory (1024 Mb) in usage?
[12:15] <arf`> probably cause the free command counts the the whole memory (with buffers and cache) in use, where the sysmon doesn't care about cached and buffered memory
[12:15] <arf`> Aquina: or perhaps cause the sysmon counts the % on the whole memory available (ie RAM+swap)
[12:16] <Aquina> Ah so it's really the chache. I'm new to Linux and saw this behaviour already when using my HDD. Every single partition saves about 5% of space.
[12:17] <arf`> not the same
[12:33] <Aquina> Hm.
[12:34] <Aquina> Will that 5% limitiation gor e.g. on my /home logical partition REALLY prevent me from using the last few gigs or is it like with quotas and a grace period of a few days exists?
[12:47] <arf`> every filesystems take HDD space for their own
[12:47] <arf`> just to function :)
[12:48] <arf`> if you're talking about the default 5% reserved by ext3, it's used as a buffer to reduce fragmentation, and for other stuffs
[12:49] <arf`> this 5% are optional, you can attribute 0% if you want, or 9%, 5% is a default value
[12:50] <arf`> Aquina: that's the -m parameter while formating with mkfs.ext3, and you can take a look in man tune2fs if this option can change an existing partition
[12:50] <gynterk> Has anyone used DVDStyler ?
[12:53] <arf`> Aquina: on a other hand, cached memory take place in RAM, and is use to rationalize disk access
[12:58] <Aquina> :-)
[13:02] <Aquina> The last chapter under [https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo] namely "Remove Password Prompt For SUDO" describes how to get rid of the password prompts. Isn't that a bit insecure, arf`? What do you think about that?
[13:07] <arf`> Aquina: I think it's a lot more insecure than using a root account, and I'm surprised there isn't a *BIG* warning on this (even more surprised that this chapter exists)
[13:10] <arf`> anyway, on a desktop, the biggest mistake that can be done is "rm -rf ~" which can be done as a single user... Removing the / without losing /home is not a big pain for a single user, cause the system can ever reinstalled
[13:11] <arf`> so for what I see, using sudo or root, password or not, is not the crucial point for a single user desktop environment :)
[13:15] <Aquina> ;-)
[13:15] <Aquina> Are you a Xubuntu developer, arf`?
[13:21] <arf`> Aquina: wow, wish I could be :)
[13:22] <arf`> mmh, wish I'm able to be, more precisely
[13:32] <Aquina> So you're at least an pretty advanced user in my eyes.
[13:34] <Aquina> One question about mouse cursors... I applied it in the XFCE-Configmmgr-->mousesettings but they are not being shown on top of EVERY windows but just within FF and when on the desktop. X-restart didn't help so far. Is there a way to force-apply cursor themes on the whole system?
[13:41] <arf`> Aquina: probably better to put the mouse theme in "/usr/share/icons" rather than "~/.icons"
[13:42] <arf`> Aquina: and ensure the permissions on dirs and files are for everybody
[13:43] <arf`> Aquina: 755 for dir and 644 for files, with root:root as proprietary:group
[13:45] <arf`> Aquina: perhaps it will not resolve the problem, but it could be on the way :)
[14:10] <Aquina> Xubuntu doesn't seem to deliver a samba client to view shares on a server by default. Can you suggest a client to me, arf`? I already found smb4K, but it's for KDE. I think it should run but I'm not sure.
[14:11] <Aquina> My runtime environment for KDE is started on boot.
[14:48] <arf`> Aquina: I don't use samba, so don't know anything about it :)
[14:49] <Aquina> oh ok ;-)
[14:50] <totalwor1age> Aquina: try fusesmb :]
[14:51] <Aquina> cu l8ter
[15:38] <william> xubuntu really is faster
[16:04] <pc-illiterate> good morning,afternoon and evening everyone
[16:05] <pc-illiterate> any good hardware guys in here ?
[16:19] <jmhealey> hello pc-illiterate
[16:24] <pc-illiterate> hi jim
[16:24] <pc-illiterate> oops. jm
[17:32] <jarnos> How can you mount many partitions in a removable drive?  Only one is shown in Thunars panel.
[17:33] <jmhealey> jarnos: you have to know the partition layout on that drive and use the mount command
[17:34] <jarnos> jmhealey: What do you mean by partition layout?
[17:35] <jmhealey> what partitions exist on the drive.  plug it in and run dmesg to see what it is recognized as, such as
[17:35] <Odd-rationale> jarnos: try, "fdisk -l" and see if it lists all the partitions in the disk...
[17:35] <jmhealey> /dev/sdc or something like that
[17:35] <jmhealey> then run parted as root
[17:36] <jmhealey> then type     select /dev/scwhatever
[17:36] <jmhealey> then type p
[17:36] <jmhealey> and it will print out your partition table for that device
[17:38] <jmhealey> Odd-rationale's method works too, just specify the device in the sudo fdisk -l command
[17:45] <jarnos> jmhealey: Do you have to put the file system type and specific options as additional arguments for mount?
[17:48] <^who^> anyone here knows how to make xubuntu not to hang?
[17:51] <jmhealey> ^who^: what hardware is it running on
[17:51] <Rev> hello ppl
[17:51] <jmhealey> and what version of xubuntu are you running?
[17:51] <Rev> any idea how to install Tracker-applet on xubuntu?
[17:52] <Rev> i installed the tracker package, but i dont see any tracker launcher in the x menu. its not in the notification area either, and i have three possibilities in the terminal : trackerd, tracker-extract, tracker-thumbnailer
[17:52] <Rev> any idea?
[17:58] <^who^> jmhealey im using hp pavillion ze1000 using a usb wifi adapter
[17:59] <^who^> it keeps hanging after a while
[18:00] <arf`> jarnos: if you want not to have to manually mount each time for this disk, you can make a persistant udev rule
[18:00] <jarnos> arf`: Interesting.
[18:00] <arf`> jarnos: i don't know by heart how to do, but it's simple and well documented on ubuntu forums and wiki
[18:01] <biz> What's the correct way to set language and locales on a per user basis instead of for the whole system? What's necessary to get XFCE and all apps started from an users xsession to have this user's language/locale choices in the environment?
[18:01] <Rev> any idea regarding my question ?
[18:02] <TheSheep> biz: just select language when you log in
[18:02] <arf`> biz: the LANG variable works for shell environment, and for X session you can choose at login time
[18:02] <biz> is there a way to remember the language of each user at login time? (X-Session?)
[18:03] <TheSheep> Rev: you need tracker-search-tool
[18:03] <arf`> biz: it's automatically stored in the ~/.dmrc file
[18:03] <biz> arf`: oh, nice. Thanks
[18:03] <Rev> TheSheep, why that?
[18:03] <TheSheep> Rev: that's where the tracker-applet program is
[18:04] <Rev> TheSheep, i meant : does that mean that when i installed the package "tracker" i installed the wrong one?
[18:04] <TheSheep> Rev: no, the package 'tracker' contains the daemon program that runs in background and does all the indexing
[18:05] <TheSheep> Rev: tracker-search-tool contains programs to access the data it has collected
[18:05] <Rev> TheSheep, oh ok, i see. and do you know the name of the applet that i could install in my xfce panel?
[18:06] <jarnos> arf`: Thanks, I'll try it some time to make mounting less complicated.
[18:06] <TheSheep> Rev: no, I don't know of a panel plugin for tracker, the tracker-applet will live in your system tray
[18:07] <Rev> TheSheep, how to check if a package is on the servers without installing it? cause if i do : sudo apt-get install tracker-applet, it will install it without any confirmation, while i could just want to check if uch a package exists without wanting to install it
[18:07] <TheSheep> Rev: apt-cache search 'text to search for'
[18:07] <Rev> TheSheep, oh, ok, thank you
[18:07] <TheSheep> Rev: and apt-cache show to display information about it
[18:08] <Rev> TheSheep, that doesnt return any answer
[18:08] <TheSheep> Rev: apt-cache show tracker-search-tool
[18:09] <Rev> TheSheep, i have already installed the tool, but i was trying to install the part that will "live" in my system tray
[18:09] <TheSheep> it's in that package
[18:09] <Rev> TheSheep, cause if i click on the tool, i just have the tool but nothing lives in my sys tray
[18:09] <Rev> maybe i have to restart X then, do i?
[18:10] <TheSheep> go to settings->autostarted applications and enable the tracker applet
[18:10] <TheSheep> then it will start automatically when you log in
[18:10] <TheSheep> you can also start it manually by pressing alt+f2 and typing 'tracker-applet'
[18:11] <Rev> TheSheep, its indeed already ticked. nothing appears in my sys tray though. maybe i have to restart X
[18:11] <Rev> thanks for your help and your patience anyway
[18:11] <Rev> be right back after restarting X
[18:12] <TheSheep> Rev: try with f2
[18:12] <TheSheep> Rev: alt+f2
[18:12] <TheSheep> Rev: don't restart without reason :)
[18:12] <Rev> TheSheep, i have already done that
[18:12] <Rev> but nothing appears
[18:13] <Rev> TheSheep, it's like something moves really slightly and quickly in the sys tray but nothing appears eventually
[18:14] <TheSheep> Rev: try starting it from a terminal
[18:14] <Rev> i just did :)
[18:14] <TheSheep> Rev: maybe you will get some message
[18:14] <Rev> and it does nothing
[18:14] <Rev> its like it still working, there is no error message, nothing, and the xxx@xxx doesnt come back
[18:15] <TheSheep> this means the applet is running but waiting for something...
[18:15] <TheSheep> press ctrl+c to stop it
[18:15] <TheSheep> in the terminal
[18:15] <Rev> ok
[18:16] <Rev> TheSheep, how can i know what is it waiting for?
[18:17] <TheSheep> hard to say
[18:17] <TheSheep> des the tracker search tool from accessories work?
[18:18] <Rev> yeah it does
[18:19] <Rev> well no
[18:19] <Rev> TheSheep, it launches but when i input a search it says that it cant connect to the search service that could be busy
[18:20] <Rev> TheSheep, i ran the sys monitor : i  had two tracker applet running, i closed em both as well as the tool iseld
[18:21] <Rev> i restarted the tool but it still cant connect with the search service
[18:31] <TheSheep> Rev: do you have also tracker itself enabled in autostarted applications?
[18:33] <Rev> TheSheep, yeah
[18:34] <TheSheep> is trackerd displayed in system monitor?
[18:36] <Rev> TheSheep, no
[18:37] <TheSheep> try starting it from terminal
[18:45] <Rev> sorry, i hadnt seen ur message
[18:45] <Rev> here is the result :
[18:45] <Rev> tdl@tdl-laptop:~$ trackerd
[18:45] <Rev> Tracker version 0.6.6 Copyright (c) 2005-2007 by Jamie McCracken (jamiemcc@gnome.org)
[18:45] <Rev> This program is free software and comes without any warranty.
[18:45] <Rev> It is licensed under version 2 or later of the General Public License which can be viewed at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt
[18:45] <Rev> Initialising tracker...
[18:45] <Rev> Could not set idle IO priority...attempting best effort 7 priority
[18:45] <Rev> starting HAL detection for ac adaptors...found /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer_power_supply_ac_adapter_ACAD
[18:45] <Rev> Throttle level is 5
[18:47] <Rev> TheSheep, beep !
[18:49] <TheSheep> does it work now?
[18:57] <slow-motion> hi
[19:01] <Rev> yeah trackerd is in the system monitor
[19:02] <Rev> TheSheep, the search tool works but doesnt find what i requested
[19:02] <Rev> however, it has maybe not yet finished the indexing
[19:02] <Rev> i'll give a try to a restart to see what happens
[19:03] <Rev> be right back
[19:06] <Rev> TheSheep, still doesnt work :/
[19:35] <MacGyverNL> How would I install xubuntu from within a working fluxbuntu installation?
[19:36] <MacGyverNL> The CD-rom connection of this laptop failed, it can not boot from USB.
[19:36] <MacGyverNL> I have a working network connection.
[19:36] <TheSheep> !install
[19:37] <MacGyverNL> Thanks.
[20:50] <jarnos> I told earlier in this channel that Thunar showed automatically only one of the partitions in my removable drive. After reboot it showed both partitions so there is no need to play with udev rules.
[20:51] <arf`> jarnos: ah well
[20:52] <arf`> jarnos: in fact, if you were just formating the partitions, you just had to type "hdparm -z /dev/the_disk" to make thunar knowing about the change
[20:58] <jarnos> arf`: ok. I understand that hdparm works with USB-disks, but also sdparm works even if I think my drive is not scsi drive.
[20:58] <iilh> hi everybody, i need an help with xubuntu... i've an old pc and the maximum resolution is 800x600; the problem is that, often, i can't manage with the windows because are too big to be shown well and i click "OK" or "Calcel" buttons... is there anyway to set the windows smaller by default? thanks.
[20:59] <arf`> jarnos: yeah, just some hdparm options work with scsi/usb disks, and -z is one of them (it just tell to the kernel to re-read the partition table of the disk)
[20:59] <iilh> *and i can't click
[20:59] <iilh> *"Cancel"
[21:00] <iilh> *any way.. :-/..
[21:01] <arf`> iilh: first you can move the window with the alt+clic combo
[21:02] <arf`> iilh: and also you can decrease the dpi used by X, it reduce a bit the size of some window, cause it reduces the rendering size of fonts
[21:03] <iilh> i tried alt+click combo and it works, thanks, i had never tried that before..
[21:04] <iilh> however, yes, i would set windows smaller by default... how can i do this?
[21:04] <iilh> *i've tried
[21:04] <arf`> iilh: for what i tried, you have two way (and it seems better to make both)
[21:04] <arf`> in the xfce preferences
[21:04] <arf`> the user interface i guess
[21:05] <arf`> (i don't use the english version of xfce...)
[21:05] <iilh> i don't, too lol :p
[21:05] <iilh> let me search a bit..
[21:05] <iilh> :)
[21:06] <iilh> ok, i'm in user-interface..
[21:06] <arf`> there is a dpi option under the police size
[21:06] <iilh> yes..
[21:06] <arf`> you can set on 75 dpi
[21:07] <iilh> done, ok... i try to logout and see... if is too bigger, i'll set it smaller..
[21:08] <arf`> i think it change the value of Xft.dpi in the ~/.config/xfce4/Xft.xrdb, but not sure
[21:09] <iilh> is there any way to set the windows dimension itself?
[21:10] <TheSheep> iilh: it's up to the application
[21:10] <TheSheep> iilh: most applications will remember the last size though
[21:10] <genelyk> uhmmm
[21:10] <arf`> yeah, but the preference windows often aren't resizable
[21:10] <iilh> yes but i would like to set xfce to load my windows smaller than normal..
[21:10] <genelyk> not show  my image.png  with  ristretto (8.10)
[21:11] <TheSheep> !bugs | genelyk
[21:11] <TheSheep> genelyk: attach the image to the bug report
[21:12] <slow-motion> n8
[21:12] <genelyk> okz
[21:12] <arf`> iilh: the other thing to do to ensure you're in 75 dpi, is to replace the X launching command of gdm
[21:13] <TheSheep> arf`: you can just set it in xorg.conf :/
[21:13] <arf`> right, but less intuitive to my sense :)
[21:13] <arf`> or perhaps you know another way to calculate with the 25.4*resolution/dpi formula ?
[21:14] <iilh> i've setted to 50dpi but i dont see any clear difference..
[21:15] <arf`> iilh: in gdm.conf-custom, you can put, under the [server-Standard] section, the following "command=/usr/bin/X -dpi 75 -br -audit 0"
[21:15] <iilh> i would like to make up something like ubuntu-studio has.. f.e. it reduces the terminal smaller than the one in ubuntu..
[21:16] <iilh> *once installed..
[21:16] <iilh> arf` ok
[21:16] <arf`> iilh: /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom
[21:16] <iilh> ok
[21:16] <arf`> and then restart X with "sudo invoke-rc.d gdm restart"
[21:17] <arf`> the size of fonts will be smaller
[21:18] <arf`> anyway, it doesn't really solve the problem
[21:18] <iilh> in fact.. i think it will reduce only the chars dimension
[21:20] <arf`> yeah, but another fact is it changes the display of somme apps too
[21:20] <iilh> do you think should i try?
[21:21] <iilh> or you know a way to make my video-card working with higher res..
[21:21] <arf`> at your choice
[21:21] <iilh> it's matrox millennium g200
[21:21] <arf`> hu
[21:21] <iilh> (and gparted live cd could run it with 1024x768, i don't undestand why ubuntu can't...)
[21:21] <arf`> isn't it the monitor rather than the graphic card, the limiting factor ?
[21:22] <iilh> (already posted as a bug)
[21:22] <iilh> uhm..
[21:22] <arf`> ok, if it already worked at an higher resolution, X is faulty :)
[21:23] <arf`> perhaps could you just steal the xorg.conf from the gparted live cd :)
[21:23] <iilh> arf`> isn't it the monitor rather than the graphic card, the limiting factor ? - is what i was thinking just now... in fact i can see black bands but are not so big... i try to reduce them
[21:24] <arf`> you better to find in the "higher resolution" way than "lower dpi", for sure
[21:25] <iilh> i tried to change monitor settings but it just increase the monitor set.. nothing else
[21:26] <iilh> arf` sure.. but i dont know how to set higger res..
[21:26] <arf`> but if you hadn't choice, the "lower dpi" give some result (the gdm setting window size in 800x600 at 75 dpi, while not at the default 96 dpi)
[21:26] <iilh> i've tried vesa, matrox..
[21:26] <TheSheep> try 'sudo displayconfig-gtk'
[21:26] <iilh> but nothing
[21:26] <iilh> thesheep already tried
[21:26] <TheSheep> ah, ok
[21:27] <genelyk> (ristretto:8486): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_value_get_pointer: assertion `G_VALUE_HOLDS_POINTER (value)' failed    ???  what it's?
[21:27] <iilh> :)
[21:27] <iilh> arf` ok.. then i try the dpi.. wait some minutes.. :)
[21:28] <arf`> TheSheep: do you know another way than the "DisplaySize" option to set dpi in the xorg.conf ?
[21:28] <TheSheep> they are driver-dependent
[21:29] <arf`> arg
[21:29] <TheSheep> in nvidia I could use dpi = xxx in the device section
[21:29] <arf`> ah, well
[21:29] <iilh> ehm... i just recognized that reducing the dpi in the user-interface worked, nut only for terminal and other few windows... f.e. i still continue to see control panel big as before..
[21:30] <iilh> ah and reducing dpi has left windows big almost like before :(
[21:30] <TheSheep> iilh: the panel has size set in pixels
[21:30] <TheSheep> iilh: just right-click on it and select 'customize panel'
[21:31] <iilh> thesheep i mean the control-panel, not the one up or down the screen
[21:31] <iilh> or better, i dont mean the panel-bars..
[21:31] <arf`> i think the dpi size in user-interface just change the type of font used, to better the rendering
[21:32] <TheSheep> iilh: afaik, the settings manager has its window size hardcoded
[21:32] <iilh> my only way for now is to use alt+click combo but is pretty anti-userfriendly lol
[21:33] <arf`> probably, but it doesn't look the same in 75 and 96, i always guessed it's because the size allocated to text is reduce in 75 dpi
[21:34] <iilh> guys, any way to make matrox work at higher res?
[21:35] <arf`> the only that i know is to use the matrox driver
[21:35] <iilh> yes i'm already using it
[21:35] <iilh> but max=800x600
[21:35] <arf`> :(
[21:35] <iilh> :(
[21:35] <TheSheep> iilh: maybe set the refresh rates for your monitor?
[21:36] <iilh> could really work?
[21:36] <TheSheep> iilh: even better, look into /var/log/Xorg.0.log and see why it's skipping the higher resolutions
[21:36] <iilh> ok
[21:36] <iilh> i try both
[21:37] <arf`> hey, I remember now that i had the same problem with a g200 (in fact, i had with a lot of graphic cards...) with the 8.04 series
[21:38] <arf`> problem that i didn't have with the 7.10 liveCD
[21:39] <arf`> to use the xorg.conf from 7.10 worked for the matrox
[21:40] <arf`> but it didn't work for an intel i740 (so crap)
 iilh: maybe set the refresh rates for your monitor? - i tried but it's the same, it is only a bit brighter)... for this: TheSheep> iilh: even better, look into /var/log/Xorg.0.log and see why it's skipping the higher resolutions - can you tell me what to check exactly?
[21:42] <arf`> how is the screen detected
[21:43] <arf`> usually, the graphic card probe the monitor (if it supports ddc)
[21:43] <iilh> arf` so you think should try to take xorg from.conf from gparted or ubuntu 7.10?
[21:43] <arf`> iilh: give it a chance yeah
[21:43] <iilh> *xorg.conf
[21:43] <arf`> nothing to loose :)
[21:43] <iilh> eheh
[21:44]  * iilh is checking /var/log/Xorg..
[21:45] <Redian> Hey, could someone give me some advice for config information for vmware-player?
[22:19]  * iilh is having problems with video card...
[22:19] <iilh> guys i can't set matrox driver anymore.. i'm getting crazy..
[22:20] <iilh> it continues to reset my driver to vesa :@
[22:21] <iilh> i already tried to save/dont save session when logout but every time it resets to vesa..
[22:21] <iilh> :(
[22:21] <arf`> what a lspci tell ?
[22:21] <arf`> hmm, tells
[22:22] <genelyk> matrox is  dirver ati ??
[22:22] <iilh> i've a matrox
[22:22] <genelyk> I have matrox g400/450 double head xD!
[22:22] <arf`> i saw this permanent resetting with a graphic card which didn't identify correctly
[22:22] <genelyk> and  is driver ati :S
[22:23] <iilh> genelik o.O try to set it from sudo displayconfig-gtk.. there's also the driver for your video card..
[22:23] <iilh> *genelyk
[22:24] <iilh> arf` lspci says it's a matrox g200..
[22:24] <genelyk> ahh
[22:26] <iilh> arf`..
[22:27] <iilh> can't use matrox driver anymore.. wft is happened? :(
[22:27] <iilh> *wtf
[22:27] <iilh> :-/
[22:27] <arf`> yeah, strange, probably have to phone to an exorcist now
[22:27] <iilh> (i didn't change anything it xorg.conf)
[22:28] <iilh> lol
[22:28] <iilh> *in
[22:28] <MacGyverNL> Hmm.
[22:28] <MacGyverNL> I've been stuck in the reboot screen after install for about 10 minutes now...
[22:28] <arf`> iilh: did you try to take the xorg in a 7.10 liveCD session ?
[22:28] <MacGyverNL> Do auto-reboots only happen on ACPI-capable machines?
[22:30] <arf`> MacGyverNL: I don't think so, sometimes the shutdown doesn't work, but never heard about the reboot
[22:30] <iilh> arf` no.. i'm tring to re-set my driver to matrox now because i would check Xorg.0.log and pastebin it here..
[22:34] <iilh> when i wrote * iilh is checking /var/log/Xorg i were tring to set the driver to matrox, but i can't.. till now.. i still can't.. :(
[22:34] <iilh> always puts vesa :-/
[22:35] <arf`> is the xserver-xorg-driver-mga still there ?
[22:39] <iilh> arf` i have xserver-xorg-video-mga
[22:39] <iilh> is the same?
[22:40] <iilh> *is that?
[22:41] <arf`> iilh: yeah
 when i wrote * iilh is checking /var/log/Xorg i were tring to set the driver to matrox, but i can't.. till now.. i still can't.. :(
[22:43] <iilh> *i couldn't
[22:46] <iilh> is there a way to set matrox as driver using the terminal?
[22:46] <arf`> iilh: yes
[22:47] <arf`> iilh: first do a "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" just to have a clean xorg.conf
[22:47] <iilh> ok
[22:49] <iilh> at the first question (use frabuffer ecc ecc) should i answer yes or no?
[22:49] <arf`> no
[22:49] <iilh> ok
[22:50] <iilh> ok done
[22:50] <MacGyverNL> Xubuntu only recognizes the LCD on this laptop up to 800x600, whereas I know that it can go up to 1024x768 @ 24 bit. Any way to fix that without editing xorg.conf?
[22:50] <iilh> now what i have to do?
[22:50] <arf`> iilh: and second, edit the xorg.conf to add in the « Section "Monitor" » the following line «        Driver          "mga" » (spaces are tab)
[22:51] <iilh> ok
[22:51] <arf`> =)
[22:51] <iilh> :)
[22:51] <arf`> the epidemic 800x600
[22:51] <iilh> Lol
[22:52] <MacGyverNL> Fluxbuntu asked me nicely which resolution I wanted.
[22:52] <MacGyverNL> dpkg-reconfigure on xubuntu does no such thing.
[22:53] <arf`> are the xubuntu and fluxbuntu on the same partition (ie did you install the xubuntu from the fluxbuntu) ?
[22:53] <MacGyverNL> And I'd rather not break any auto-updating features of anything, since it'll be someone else who's going to use it.
[22:54] <MacGyverNL> No, I copied the cd contents on a fourth partition, booted from that and reformatted the rest.
[22:54] <MacGyverNL> So fluxbuntu == gone.
[22:54] <iilh> arf` what about a "X -configure"?
[22:55] <iilh> then mv xorg.new xorg.old?
 iilh: and second, edit the xorg.conf to add in the « Section "Monitor" » the following line «        Driver          "mga" » (spaces are tab)
[22:57] <iilh> done
[22:57] <iilh> loading...
[22:58] <arf`> iilh: you have to restart gdm
[22:59] <iilh> yes
[23:00] <iilh> (in displayconfig-gtk always says vesa :@)
[23:00] <iilh> :'(
[23:00] <Proweler> I know this isn't the channel for vsftpd ect, but with FTP what would be the best way to deal with having the password/login being transfered in plain text? I could setup an account with no rights to parts of the system exept for the FTP folder, but that means I've got to mess around with that stuff in another /home/ folder. Not really desirable,
[23:00] <arf`> why are you in displayconfig-gtk ?
[23:01] <iilh> arf` i restarted gtk then i opened that to check if it now says mga or vesa
[23:01] <arf`> hu
[23:01] <MacGyverNL> Hmm. And how do I also get the normal TTY's to use 1024x768?
[23:01] <iilh> says vesa
[23:01] <MacGyverNL> Kernel grub.lst option?
[23:01] <iilh> :(
[23:01] <arf`> iilh: after editing the xorg.conf, just restart gdm
[23:02] <MacGyverNL> grub menu.lst*
[23:02] <iilh> arf` yes i did
[23:02] <iilh> now i restarted the pc
[23:02] <arf`> no
[23:02] <arf`> wait
[23:02] <iilh> ehm
[23:03] <iilh> :)
[23:03] <iilh> d'oh :)
[23:03] <iilh> Lol
[23:03] <arf`> is now the xorg.conf like you make it before to relaunch diplayconfig-gtk ?
[23:04] <iilh> i check
[23:04] <arf`> MacGyverNL: mmh, not sure about what you want
[23:04] <iilh> (now, after reboot, it says again that its in low-graphic mode)
[23:05] <arf`> ok, so i can't help anymore
[23:05] <arf`> anyway i have to go now
[23:05] <arf`> so good luck :)
[23:05] <MacGyverNL> arf`: Well, I want 2 things. 1: Get XFCE / X.org to recognize that this laptop screen can take 1024x768. 2: Get the normal terminals (alt+F1-F6) to use 1024x768
[23:05] <MacGyverNL> I think I've fixed 2.
[23:05] <arf`> great \o/
[23:05] <iilh> ok.. thanks anyway arf` for all support
[23:06] <iilh> eheh
[23:06] <iilh> Lol
[23:06] <Proweler> Gotta use chroot, duh!
[23:07] <MacGyverNL> Yup, 2 is fixed (although now the splash screen is off, but we can't have everything)
[23:28] <MacGyverNL> Hmm.
[23:29] <MacGyverNL> After unpluggin the power source from my laptop, plugging it in again, plugging out and plugging in again, Xubuntu hasn't restored the monitor brightness I want.
[23:29] <MacGyverNL> Is there a way *within* xfce to adjust it?
[23:30] <aro> I can't seem to get sound in Firefox to work, particularly Flash content. Ubuntu 8.04 with Logitech USB Headset.
[23:30] <aro> oops, wrong chan, sorry.