[00:00] i guess they fixed that after I switched to xscreensaver [00:00] obviously everyone has some application preferences, but we can't please everyone [00:01] totally, i fully agree. Just that the focus of xubuntu was supposed to be on window-manager neutral apps as much as possible [00:01] avoiding kdelibs and gnome-libs wherever necessary [00:02] and then they go and throw in gnome-screensaver when xscreensaver worked just fine [00:02] annoyed me just a tad... [00:03] i remember [00:03] edvard: well, GNOME has this habit of including the best gtk applications into it [00:03] edvard: ad turning them into gnome apps [00:04] true, but not all of them require gnome-libs [00:05] i remember the problem... xscreensaver lets you configure which text file to use in the screensavers that take text input. [00:05] edvard: gnome-screensaver uses exactly one gnome library [00:05] cant do that with gnome-screensaver [00:05] edvard: libgnome-menu.so.2 [00:05] sure, we can't avoid them all, I agree. [00:05] ldd /usr/bin/gnome-screensaver | less [00:06] oh, and gconf [00:06] but i will argue that xscreensaver is *better* and would use one less gnome lib [00:06] gosh, how I hate gconf :/ [00:06] mmm true [00:06] there were issues with xscreensaver too [00:07] ? [00:07] iirc, media players couldn't disable it [00:07] when playing movies [00:07] oh, that [00:07] yah that's annoying [00:07] can't remember more [00:08] or when your recording something, having your stream interrupted by flying toasters doesn't sound pretty [00:08] I just made a habit of turning screensavers off when I was recording [00:09] edvard: I'd really have stripped version of some og gnome programs, instead of having poorly supported additional apps [00:09] of [00:09] yes, that would be better for some things [00:09] I guess if you really want xscreensaver, you should offer to care for the package [00:10] that's an idea [00:11] you know what i would really like? a gtk version of k3b. [00:13] there were some attempts [00:13] really? [00:13] don't tell me they named it Brasero [00:13] yeah, someone even wated to make a general purpose burning library [00:13] XD [00:13] not a bad idea [00:14] I nvere heard of him since [00:14] most of those things are just a front end for cdrdao and cdrparanoia anyways, it shouldn't be *too* hard, you think? [00:15] and if cdrdao, etc work well enough, it seems a burning lib would be superfluous [00:15] no idea, debugging it requires a lot of work and knowledge, I would think [00:15] sure [00:16] especially when ubuntu can't ship cdrecord [00:16] ? [00:16] the cdrecord is proprietary? [00:16] patens and silly american laws [00:16] patents [00:16] and that thing about dvd key or something [00:16] not sure exactly, silly law problems [00:17] ah, and cdrecord has some stupid license [00:17] the dvd key issue is downright stupid [00:17] oh, license [00:17] still stupid [00:18] they basically allow you personal use, but require some activation keys for advanced users and I think for corporate use [00:18] something like that, can't remember [00:18] what qualifies as an "advanced user" [00:18] ? [00:18] no idea [00:19] I'm sure you can find it with google easily [00:19] anyways, ubuntu uses wodim instead [00:19] ah [00:19] which was made compatible to some extent, but not fully [00:19] so a gpl burning lib wouldn't be a bad idea after all [00:20] yeah [00:21] hmm says here cdrtools is gpl :http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/cdr-faq.html [00:22] wait, no it doesn't just says it's open source [00:25] interesting: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/dvd-source-why.html [00:25] hey cody [00:25] i was just talking about you [00:31] i remember, it was the dvd css key that was causing all the trouble a little while ago [00:32] ahhhh... okay [00:32] :] [00:35] TheSheep? [00:35] Ultraputz: yes? [00:35] actually i was discussing some ideas i had for xubuntu before sending you an email [00:36] gnome's panels the same as the panels used in XFCE? [00:36] Ultraputz: no [00:36] congrats on being commissioned head of this project [00:36] Ultraputz: but there is a panel plugin that lets you use the gnome's panel applets [00:37] what i was more wondering pertains to both, but i'll ask the xfce version here: in the task switcher, is it possible to have it display icons w/o menu text? [00:37] Ultraputz: and xfce will pay attention to some gconf settings, like panel backgrounds and such [00:37] Ultraputz: you can use the iconbox instead [00:37] iconbox? [00:37] is it in synaptic or already present? [00:38] Ultraputz: it's a panel plugin similar to the task switcher, just displays icons instead [00:38] Ultraputz: yes [00:38] Ultraputz: xfc4-plugin-iconbox or some such [00:38] Ultraputz: search for iconbox [00:38] Ultraputz: I believe the gnome's task switcher can display icons alone, btw [00:39] Ultraputz: in the xfce-settings manager, make a new panel and add the iconbox plugin. it's there (i think it's called "li'l star iconbox") [00:39] theSheep - if you know how, i'm all ears. [00:40] TheSheep, edvard: thanks. [00:40] I was actually having a different idea, and maybe one day I will get to try to write it -- a launcher that launches the app if it's not running, but just switches to it if it's launched already [00:40] kinda to emulate how macos does it [00:40] you mean like the mac doc [00:40] ja [00:40] that's basically what i'm looking for [00:41] and the switcher w/ text wastes too much desktop real estate. [00:41] Ultraputz: I don't use switcher at all, just a large workspace switcher [00:41] and an iconbox for minimized windows [00:41] i don't use virtual desktops, never cared for them. [00:41] (you can make it show minimized windows only) [00:41] cody-somerville: I read throught the xubuntu strategy document [00:41] nice [00:42] edvard, thank you :) [00:42] strategy: to kill kde in their sleep. [00:42] Ultraputz: kde is ok as long as their developers don't try to write gtk apps ;) [00:43] i'd like to help, but it says (in a nutshell) i need to be experienced with supporting elsewhere. [00:43] and to put a theme customization menu in every application [00:43] no, the rest of the world _really_ wants the KDE look. [00:43] Ultraputz: if it makes them happy... [00:43] edvard, You got the impression from the document that you need experience elsewhere to help out Xubuntu? [00:43] * cody-somerville has to run. be back soon. [00:44] ok, later i'll explain in an email later ok? [00:45] hey, i was pretty smitten by the crystall icon set for awhile, too [00:45] edvard: Oxygen is extra ugly [00:45] ooh yeah [00:45] i forgot about oxygen [00:45] ick [00:46] they really have macosx complex :) [00:46] Ultraputz: btw, you might wat to try AWN [00:46] Ultraputz: avan window navigator [00:46] avant [00:46] TheSheep - i would, but neither machine has the video hardware to do compositing [00:46] ah [00:46] too bad [00:46] i'm building a new box that will, eventually [00:47] to quote someone on the donationcoder forum... "...it's as if applications will run faster because the rounded corners on the gui reduce wind resistance..." [00:47] edvard: rounded corners *are* esier on the eyes [00:47] yeah. i admit that [00:48] but every little button and box? [00:48] edvard - yes [00:48] edvard: actually gui fashins change periodically, oscilating between rounded and straight, just like fashions for computer cases and such [00:48] otherwise you have design inconsistency [00:48] yes, just look at the cries of inconsistency over the new mac interface for firefox [00:49] there would be room to talk 15 years ago, but not today [00:49] apple from os x on has kind of dropped the ball big time [00:49] the question is no longer "does this meet guidelines" but, "Does the demo impress the old man?" [00:49] one trend that seems to be consistent is that cases for various hardware gets less and less spacing/margins between various elements [00:49] hehe [00:49] ooh i hate that [00:50] more and more of it is just an issue of lifecycle [00:50] thankfully i've never had to deal with a double-space graphic card [00:50] once, you bought a computer, and upgraded it, a component at a time, like replacing planks on an old ship [00:50] today, they're expendable appliances. [00:50] Ultraputz: you know about the plastic they use to make ipods? [00:51] nope. wouldn't own a personal isolation unit. :-) [00:51] and why are the power supplies in modern computers so touchy? [00:51] edvard - to sell more power supplies [00:51] i've blown 3 so far just sneezing at it [00:51] Ultraputz: it's pretty sturdy, but they made it shiny so that it wears off quickly and shows it's not brand new after several months [00:51] what about the plastic TheSheep [00:52] Ultraputz: the old Ford trick, eh [00:52] Ultraputz: they have specifically chosen the material that would do that [00:52] oh, of course. [00:52] that makes sure the fashionable are ready to upgrade on command. [00:52] Ultraputz: so that you take it out of your pocket and everyone looks and say "wow, that's an old ipod you have there" [00:52] LOL [00:52] did you see david lynch's comment on the iphone? [00:53] that was good [00:53] no [00:53] you should see what people say when you pull out an old newton [00:53] "what the hell is that?!" [00:53] "it's a biological weapon. be nice to me." [00:53] * TheSheep still waits for OpenMoko [00:53] amen [00:54] the idea of carrying one device instead of 4 is somehow appealing [00:54] * Ultraputz waits for a linux hwr engine that does not [00:54] TheSheep: look up "david lynch iphone" on youtube sometime [00:55] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0 [00:55] edvard: I wonder who sponsors it... [00:55] david lynch heavy industries, inc. [00:55] dunno [00:56] i liked maddox's somewhat colorful opinion of the iphone [00:56] meh? [00:56] not for the squeamish: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone [00:57] besides the foul-mouthed juvenility, it is rather funny [00:59] what you say about mving this to xubuntu-offtopic? :) [00:59] that was beautiful [01:00] that was carlinworthy, god rest his soul. [01:00] I have some rant to do about tactile feedback ;) [01:00] hehe i'd love to participate, but I gotta run [01:01] good evening gentlemen, and have a nice independence day if you happen to live in the us [01:02] in other words, don't burn anything down for pete's sake [01:02] it feels rather ironic celebrating "independence" with the us's present debt and oil issues. [01:02] until china makes good on what we owe them, it's a beautiful illusion [01:03] gotta go [01:03] cheers yo [01:03] happy 4. [01:03] u2 [01:04] hrm. seems to be no gnome equiv for iconbox [01:05] it's perfect [01:05] oh well, the laptop is the faster machine anyway. :-) [01:06] Ultraputz: in gnome the standard task manager can display only icons [01:07] hoe ? [01:07] er how ? [01:07] looking at window list preferences, nothing like that there [01:07] hmm.. maybe I remember incorrectly [01:08] haven't seen gnome for 1.5 year [01:08] i don't suppose there's a way to run xfce plugins in gnome panels? [01:08] no :) [01:08] at least I don't know about anything like that, but I don't know everything [01:09] (yet) [01:09] oh no. another transhumanist. [01:09] :-) [01:09] Ultraputz: you have something against transhumanizm? ;) [01:10] i've found that transhumanists make bad dates. [01:12] bbl [01:12] thanks chief [01:34] Is it normal applications in Xubuntu to 'freeze' for a short time? Especially firefox 3? [01:35] supertanker: what are your computer specs? [01:35] supertanker: that's a bug in firefox, or more precisely, in the falsh plugin [01:35] flash [01:35] Odd-rationale: Athlon 3800+ X2 (In I386), 1GB ram, Nvidia 6510 video card [01:35] hmm. only in xubuntu? [01:35] TheSheep: ? [01:36] Yeah [01:36] No flash plugin that I know of for Firefox installed ATM [01:36] Also [01:36] Other apps (including the console emulator for XFCE and Xterm) will lock up for a short while to [01:36] too [01:36] It's exceedingly irritating [01:37] Bug 23616 [01:37] Launchpad bug 23616 in firefox "firefox freezes after using flash" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/23616 [01:38] Bug 82932 [01:38] Launchpad bug 82932 in sun-java6 "Firefox java plugin freeze" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82932 [01:38] I don't USE flash [01:38] Bug 107093 [01:38] Launchpad bug 107093 in firefox "System freezes (possibly Gecko)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107093 [01:38] supertanker: the second one is about java [01:39] I don't use Java either! [01:39] and the third one is not yet known [01:39] This is a near fresh Xubuntu install [01:39] well, if you are sure it's not any of the reported bugs, then please report a ew one [01:39] new [01:40] anything in dmesg? [01:40] got it [01:40] sup sheep [01:40] hey magic_ninjai [01:40] lol [01:40] Lemme look [01:41] Not that I see [01:42] does your caps-lock/num-lock and mouse work when it freezes? [01:43] can you reproduce the freezing, does it happen more frequently in any situation, or is it completely random? [01:43] Yeah [01:43] I can still switch between apps usually [01:43] But Firefox won't respond (usually), and I can't switch channels in IRSSI, for example [01:43] is any other application running in the background that could cause it? [01:43] But the mouse and alt-tab work [01:43] Firefox? [01:44] for example, I noticed that package upgrades tend to take up 100% of cpu for a short while after upgrading [01:44] even on multicore computers [01:44] that effectively freezes most apps [01:44] Hahaha [01:45] I have dialup [01:45] Do you think I'd be updating right now? [01:45] supertanker: how am I supposed to know it? [01:45] that's why I'm asking these questions [01:45] Sorry [01:45] Everyone irritates me about it [01:45] I get pissed off when people tell me to 'get dsl plz' [01:46] I'm not telling you to get dsl :) [01:46] I'm trying to help you formulate you your bug report [01:47] Thank you [01:47] :D [01:47] It seems to be random too [01:47] I'm not sure what causes it [01:47] IE, it hasn't in the last 30 minutes [01:49] I'm going on random websites with loads of javascript, etc, to see if I can get it to do it again [01:49] try to open top in a terminal in background and see if some app jumps to the top when the freeze happens [01:49] All right [01:50] Woah [01:50] X is using 14% of my CPU [01:50] probably some animated gif in firefox... [01:50] Hash [01:50] hah* [01:51] Totem, which I just started, is using 5% [01:51] And GtkRadiant is using half my ram [01:51] (It's a video game map editor) [01:51] GtkRadiant? [01:51] ah [01:52] you could also look at the cpu usage graph in system monitor [01:53] System monitor? [01:53] Oh [01:53] That application clearly marked, "System Monitor" [01:53] Could that be it? :P [01:53] yes, unless you are French [01:54] CPUs are holding steady at about 10-20% for each core [01:54] :P [01:54] even when it "freezes"? [01:54] It hasn't yet [01:54] Which is weird [01:54] Because it was doing it all day earlier [01:54] Even using Radiant heavily isn't causing it to do that [01:55] are the graphs for your two cores symmetric? [01:55] Any way to get my system monitor to float above my desktop like in Damn SmalL Linux, where it has that OSD-Like system report that stays in the upper-right hand of my desktop? [01:55] TheSheep: They're in a rough double-helix shape [01:55] fun :) [01:56] supertanker: you can right-click on the title bar and enable 'always on top' [01:56] They spike at about the same time when I do something like load my entire game's texture/ directory [01:56] supertanker: and 'show on all worksapces' [01:56] Meh [01:56] That's not quite what I meant [01:56] It has no window [01:56] It's like the text on a VCR or DVD player [01:56] On Screen Display [01:57] not with system monitor [01:57] Aww [01:57] Still hasn't locked [01:57] odd [01:57] you can also hold down alt and scroll your mouse wheel on the title bar to make it translucent :) [01:58] (if you have compositing enabled) [01:58] Thanks for helping by the way, in case I don't get this solved [01:58] I grabbed Xubuntu because #fedora was NOT helping at all when I hosed my nvidia driver somehow [01:58] I'm the kind of person who really shouldn't have root access on my own system :P [02:00] While I'm here, is there any easy way to increase openGL performance? [02:00] I have the nvidia-glx-new package [02:00] I get about 70 FPS in a game at 1024x768 resolution [02:00] This game should be getting about ~120 [02:01] hmm... I'm not sure [02:01] you could search teh forum [02:01] Ah well [02:01] I'm just glad to have OpenGL again [02:01] I'm not really into games so I never looked at it [02:01] I map for video games [02:02] I have a map to finish by the 20th for a contest [02:02] I play roguelikes :) [02:02] OpenGL went ker-splat in Fedora a few days ago and I lost sleep :> [02:02] text mode is fast enoufgh for me [02:02] Huh [02:02] X is still taking up an inorderate amount of CPU time [02:03] ~30% [02:03] Is that for both my cores or just one? [02:03] both [02:03] no wait [02:03] if both your cores were busy, it would show 200% I think [02:04] WTF [02:04] It just said 652% [02:04] Well, getting rid of totem [02:04] you're sure it's only a double core? %) [02:04] 's fugly visualization dropped it to 19 [02:04] Yeah [02:04] I'm sure [02:04] I want a quadcore :< [02:05] supertanker: get ps3 ;) [02:05] Get what? [02:05] playstation 3, I've heard it has some kickass cpu :) [02:06] I don't play those types of games much [02:06] I map for older games, like the Q3 based Tremulous [02:06] supertanker: well, you install linux on it and play whatever you want... [02:06] Heh [02:06] just kidding of course [02:07] Sorry, don't have $500 right now, or I'd be building my own dream system [02:07] Hmm [02:07] System just had a mini freeze for about 5 seconds [02:07] I managed to get to top and Xorg was up at 50% CPU [02:07] Both cores [02:08] A few seconds later Core 2 jumped back up to 50% as well [02:08] And again, for about 20 seconds [02:09] ... might be something with nvidia... [02:09] Didn't let me get to top this time [02:09] How odd [02:09] I was starting to type 'google.com' into the Firefox address box [02:09] try system monitor, it has this graph that will show you spikes even if you don't manage to switch in time [02:10] I think it's something to do with FF3's address bar [02:10] Because it just did it again [02:10] That auto-lookup is bloody annoying [02:12] Did it a third time: it's definitely something to do with that address bar and the way it tries to fill in the blanks for you [02:12] I really don't like FS3 [02:12] FF3* [02:13] Occasionally it locks up by itself but doesn't take the rest of the computer with it [02:13] But that address bar locks up the entire machine for about 20 seconds [02:13] Is it correct that apache package isn't in apt-get? [02:13] *the apache package [02:14] Whoops. Now FF is totally locked [02:20] My hard drive is like constantly on [02:20] But my ram usage is only at 500MB out of 1024 [02:31] supertanker, same here [02:33] Bleg [02:41] supertanker: in about:config there are two interesting entries if you search for 'complete' [02:41] supertanker: in ff3 === supertan1er is now known as supertanker [02:59] I got apache compiled and working [02:59] yay me! [03:00] Yay! [03:00] Now get PHP and MySQL as well, and get them ALL working together [03:01] hehe [03:02] That gives problems? [03:04] Proweler: why didn't use the package? [03:04] !info lamp [03:04] Package lamp does not exist in hardy [03:04] !info apache2 [03:04] apache2 (source: apache2): Next generation, scalable, extendable web server. In component main, is optional. Version 2.2.8-1ubuntu0.3 (hardy), package size 43 kB, installed size 100 kB [03:04] just trying to learn stuff, being stupid helps :) [03:08] if you're installing the server a lamp server is one of the options [03:15] mmh [03:16] when the router goes down and drops all DHCP leases, xubuntu doesn't detect this and sticks to the old DHCP lease. [03:21] hi anybody? [03:21] RadXubuntu: hi [03:22]