[01:30] <pwnguin> ScottK: it's my intuition that releasing 8.04 on time was imperative in "proving" that the cycle worked; certainly shuttleworth couldn't have written a slightly daring piece declaring victory for the schedule and asking other distros to try it
[01:35] <pwnguin> ScottK: a more comprehensive review of the SRUs for hardy might demonstrate the point; I know some people irate about the kernel scheduler
[02:12] <ScottK> pwnguin: I won't speculate in advance of the facts.  I think additional analysis would be useful.
[03:48] <greg-g> if a program, to be fully useful it must be called from the CLI (some options only available when starting with various -switches) should it have a .desktop file?
[03:49] <greg-g> this is probably a "depends" questions question, so, I'm looking at bug 243776
[03:52] <persia> greg-g: Looking at the manpage, there seem sane defaults.  Whether to call `japa -A` or `japa -J` in the .desktop file is a matter for debate.
[03:52] <persia> Personally, I'd advocate -J, as I believe the goal is to abstract ALSA, and move to JACK and pulse clients for the most part.
[03:52] <greg-g> persia: agree
[03:53] <greg-g> persia: but, personally, -J doesn't work on my machine
[03:53] <greg-g> so, my inclination is to say "no" to a .desktop file right now
[03:53] <persia> greg-g: Did you start JACK before calling that?
[03:53] <greg-g> persia: no :)
[03:54] <greg-g> I have no experience using/starting JACK
[03:54] <persia> greg-g: Install qjackctl, run JACK Control from the menu, click Start.
[03:55] <persia> I like to use Patchage to manage the connections.
[03:55] <persia> Anyway, that shouldn't block the .desktop file.  There are several applications that fail to start without a running Jack that ship .desktop upstream.
[03:55] <greg-g> persia: ahh, didn't know that
[03:56] <greg-g> persia: so is your opinion to create the .desktop file with "japa -J" as the command?
[03:58] <persia> greg-g: Yes, although I anticipate that this will generate a bug that japa doesn't work with ALSA by default, and a bug that japa ought detect and start JACK if not previously running.
[03:59]  * greg-g nods
[03:59] <persia> Of these, I'd consider the former wontfix, as I expect most users who need that would do better with JACK than ALSA.  The second would be a real bug, but the appropriate solution hasn't been determined (and several strategies to make it "just work" have been shown to not be ideal)
[04:01] <greg-g> sorry, one moment
[04:16] <greg-g> persia: (phone interruption) ok. so I'll then learn the syntax of a .desktop file and attach a diff to that bug report, and we'll deal with the real bug as it comes
[04:16] <persia> greg-g: Sounds good.
[04:17] <greg-g> persia: thanks for the advice
[05:18] <saivann> Can a ubuntu developer consider merging available branch in bug 66760 for usplash to the current intrepid development release?
[05:54] <dholbach> good morning
[05:54] <ion_> Hi
[05:54] <dholbach> hi ion_
[05:56] <Hobbsee> hey dholbach!
[05:56] <dholbach> hi Hobbsee
[07:03]  * calc upgraded to 6GB ram, 1TB hd :)
[07:06] <TheMuso> calc: nice.
[07:07] <calc> i should have plenty of room for a mirror now :)
[07:16] <TheMuso> heh
[07:39] <pitti> Good mornin
[07:39] <pitti> g
[07:40] <ion_> Hi
[07:40] <Hobbsee> hey pitti!
[07:45] <dholbach> can sombody please unsub ubuntu-archive from 245706
[07:50] <Hobbsee> dholbach: i'm not sure that's possible
[07:51] <dholbach> everybody who's in the team can unsubscribe the team
[07:51] <Hobbsee> yes, but how?
[07:51] <dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hnb/+bug/245706/+subscribe
[07:51] <Hobbsee> do i need to switch to production to be able to unsubscribe people?
[07:52] <dholbach> it's not very obvious and I talked to the LP folks about it
[07:52] <dholbach> it's the "subscribe ... yourself" link
[07:52] <Hobbsee> oh, you have to manually type +subscribe
[07:52] <Hobbsee> oh, i tried the subscribing other people link
[07:52] <dholbach> no, click on the "yourself" link
[07:52] <dholbach> yeah
[07:53] <Hobbsee> hm, that worked.
[07:53] <dholbach> gracias
[08:51] <Keybuk> don't suppose anyone know the last known xserver-xorg-video-intel to work?
[08:53] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: the current intrepid one?
[08:53] <Keybuk> IT DOESN'T WORK
[08:53] <Keybuk> oops, the caps were not deliberate, but nonetheless warranted
[08:54] <pitti> Keybuk: compiz breaking for you as well? (white screen)
[08:55] <RAOF> You know, I sometimes wonder if I run the same devel release as everyone else...
[08:55] <pitti> happens for me with both the hardy and intrepid kernel
[08:55] <Hobbsee> RAOF: yeah...
[08:55] <RAOF> That'll be something in the new mesa stack, right?
[08:55] <pitti> RAOF: it's pretty broken for me anyway (usplash horribly mangled, suspend broken, X black with usplash, compiz breaks with just white screen)
[08:55] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: hm, maybe i haven't tried the most recent version then.
[08:56] <Keybuk> pitti: yup
[08:56] <Hobbsee> RAOF: yeah, me as well.  particularly with things like graphics, and wifi cards not working.
[08:56] <RAOF> pitti: That wasn't a comment on this particular issue (I don't _have_ an intel card), just my general lack of development problems.
[08:56] <RAOF> Nothing ever seems to go wrong.  At least, not so that I notice and remember :)
[08:57] <pitti> RAOF: lucky you :)
[08:57] <RAOF> Indeed.
[09:01] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: i'm hoping to avoid yelling here, but i've had 2:2.3.2-1ubuntu3 working here with no problems earlier.
[09:01] <Hobbsee> that being said, i probably don't have the rest of the new X stack installed yet
[09:03] <RAOF> Has it made it out of NEW yet?
[09:09] <Iulian> Good morning.
[09:34] <tjaalton> RAOF: I'll upload a new mesa/xorg-server soon, should fix sparc/hppa/ia64 FTBFS's
[09:34] <tjaalton> so after that we'll be able to rebuild the drivers etc
[09:35] <tjaalton> the stack is not ready yet
[09:35] <RAOF> Right.  I wasn't sure whether it had settled yet.
[09:35] <RAOF> Our X isn't getting built with dri2 support, right
[09:35] <RAOF> ?
[09:35] <tjaalton> no, needs TTM
[09:35] <tjaalton> ie. libdrm from master
[09:36] <tjaalton> er, modesetting-101
[09:36] <RAOF> Right.  Suspected as much.
[09:36] <RAOF> Or, presumably, the gem branch?
[09:37] <tjaalton> that could work too
[09:43] <Amaranth> I thought the consensus was that DRI2 would make GEM calls since it only does some base things and DRI2 needs a stable API to call
[09:43] <Amaranth> TTM could be used on top of GEM for drivers where it makes sense
[09:47] <tjaalton> Amaranth: could well be, I've given up hope of understanding where we stand currently ;)
[09:48] <Amaranth> I just tried to catch up today
[09:48] <Amaranth> Still completely lost
[09:48] <tjaalton> if libdrm 2.4.0 has GEM support in it, we can revisit DRI2
[09:48] <tjaalton> hehe :)
[09:48] <Amaranth> But hey, I have intel hardware now so I want me some GEM :)
[09:48] <tjaalton> me too :)
[09:49] <tjaalton> and yes, seems like radeon uses some TTM-GEM hybrid
[09:50] <tjaalton> er, will use. there's a branch on airlied's git
[09:51] <Amaranth> Next person to invent a memory manager gets stabbed with a spork
[09:54] <tjaalton> Amaranth: slow and painful ;)
[09:54] <RAOF> I think there's been some work in nouveau, somewhere, with TTM, too.
[09:54] <RAOF> Amaranth: A mutant, 1/16 fork 15/16 spoon?
[09:55] <tjaalton> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spork
[09:55]  * RAOF was referring to the xkcd.
[09:55] <Amaranth> RAOF: That's 1/4 spoon 3/4 spork
[09:55] <Amaranth> They crossed a spoon with a spork
[09:56] <RAOF> Right.  But they _could_ get to 1/16 fork, 15/16 spoon.
[09:56] <RAOF> And it wasn't their spoon/spork cross that ran rampant, anyway :)
[09:56] <Amaranth> I think it needs more fork to be stabby
[09:57] <ion_> raof: I heard they’re doing that at CERN, but there are concerns the process might start a chain reaction that destroys the entire universe as we know it.
[09:57] <RAOF> ion_: Nah.  They're just planning to kill pideons with a relativistic proton beam.
[09:57] <Amaranth> ion_: Does it make the universe run on happy thoughts?
[09:58] <ion_> I’d like to have a quantum spork. The spoon/fork proportion of one collapses when observed.
[10:58] <ogra> who does NEW today ?
[10:58]  * ogra has usb-imagewriter sitting in intrepid waiting for a friendly hand ....
[11:03] <pitti> ogra: Monday is Steve's archive day
[11:04] <ogra> ok
[11:04] <ogra> then i'll ask later again :)
[11:07] <pitti> tjaalton, bryce: xdmx{,-tools} and xserver-xfbdev -> main or universe?
[11:12] <tjaalton> pitti: I think universe will do
[11:13] <pitti> tjaalton: oh, xdmx-tools was already in ubuntu universe since gutsy, then apparently removed in hardy, and now it comes back? :)
[11:14] <tjaalton> pitti: right, it was brought back in the 1.5rc packaging
[11:14] <tjaalton> apparently the build was broken for 1.4
[11:17] <kantor> hi, if the SCSI sg driver SG_IO ioctl returns with error (not a 0 value) that means that in the status, masked_status, . . .  bytes nothing is stored (no useful information) ?
[11:18] <kantor> so I check for the masked_status only if that ioctl returns with 0
[11:18] <kantor> no ?
[11:51] <Nubae> hi... asac quick question...
[11:52] <Nubae> ﻿do you know how the firefox app-id is created?
[11:52] <Nubae> ﻿ the id u have in ~/.mozilla/extensions/<browser-id>
[11:57] <asac> Nubae: if you need a new one, you can use whatever you want
[11:57] <cjwatson> uuidgen
[11:58] <Nubae> ok, so for a new browser, one would just create it using uuidgen?
[12:00] <asac> Nubae: uuid's have been used in the past. another way is to use a domain-scoped id like: superbrowser@yourdomain.org
[12:01] <Nubae> ok thanks a lot
[12:03] <Nubae> asac - ﻿once we create the id - how do we tell our browser to use it?
[12:03] <asac> Nubae: is that supposed to be xul application?
[12:04] <asac> Nubae: if so, look at /usr/lib/firefox-3.0/application.ini
[13:47] <jc-denton> i know this is not the place to ask
[13:47] <jc-denton> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc/+bug/235236
[13:47] <jc-denton> but i have the same problem
[13:48] <jc-denton> and no idea what Lrun a dkms build for kernel 2.6.24-16-rt (i686) first." means
[13:48] <jc-denton> because dkms build is for a specific module as far as i understand..
[13:50] <jc-denton> so what shall i do?
[13:50] <jc-denton> switch to windows?
[13:50] <jc-denton> i'm using radeonhd right now but my laptop gets too hot
[13:51] <jc-denton> http://rafb.net/p/Owo6cw84.html
[14:04] <pitti> tjaalton: hm, now xserver-xorg-core is held back, and upgrade removes all video/input drivers; I take it this can be resolved by tomorrow? (alpha-2 soft freeze)
[14:05] <Iulian> Riddell: Giver is in unstable so we can sync now.
[14:05] <tjaalton> pitti: should be resolvable, all video/input drivers need to be rebuilt
[14:06] <tjaalton> pitti: I'm just waiting for ia64 to catch up..
[14:06] <pitti> tjaalton: ah, want me to bump a build score?
[14:07] <tjaalton> pitti: that would be nice, yes
[14:07] <pitti> which source?
[14:07] <tjaalton> xorg-server
[14:08] <tjaalton> hppa is currently building
[14:09] <pitti> done
[14:10] <tjaalton> thanks!
[14:22]  * pitti hugs tseliot
[14:24] <pitti> tjaalton: ah, ia64 buildds are still busy with gcc and subversion
[14:24] <tjaalton> pitti: hum, ok
[14:25]  * tseliot hugs pitti
[14:33] <pitti> tseliot: looking forward to your reply
[14:35] <tseliot> pitti: I'm reading your email right now ;)
[14:36] <tjaalton> pitti: debian has three flavours of nvidia, but the sources are named differently
[14:37] <pitti> are they using dkms, too?
[14:37] <tjaalton> nope
[14:37] <pitti> hrm, no, dkms isn't even in debian
[14:38] <tjaalton> they have 'nvidia-graphics-drivers' (the latest version) and 'nvidia-graphics-drivers-legacy-{71xx,96xx}'
[14:39] <tjaalton> which then produce nvidia-glx, nvidia-glx-legacy-{71xx,96xx}
[14:39] <tjaalton> etc
[14:39] <Mirv> pitti: your v4l-dvb dkms is the best thing since sliced bread
[14:40] <pitti> Mirv: :-)
[14:40] <pitti> Mirv: I was actually surpised that it flawlessly built on the intrepid kernel as well
[14:43] <pitti> Mirv: hm, I don't even need that package any more on intrepid, the upstream drivers are recent enough
[14:43] <Mirv> pitti: there are plenty of us around here using it for Anysee DVB support (to be included in 2.6.27)
[14:44] <pitti> nice :)
[14:45] <Mirv> dkms seems like ideal for things like v4l-dvb which needs updates constantly as new devices are bought by users and support added by v4l-dvb developers
[14:45] <pitti> Mirv: indeed it is; I really like it
[14:53] <tseliot> pitti: email sent ;)
[15:09] <pitti> tseliot: replied again
[15:10] <tseliot> pitti: ok
[15:15] <pitti> tseliot: ... to the other mail, too
[15:18] <tseliot> pitti: ah, ok, thanks
[15:27] <tjaalton> duh, why doesn't 'dch -l foo' work when the version does not have 'ubuntu' in it?
[15:29] <Hobbsee> tjaalton: because you actually want to use dch -Ul?
[15:29] <Hobbsee> oh, hmm
[15:30] <Hobbsee> scratch that
[15:36] <ligemeget> Can someone explain to me why https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu says " The current translation focus for Ubuntu is 7.10 (Gutsy), and we encourage you to translate it first." ?
[15:41] <cjwatson> ligemeget: thanks for the note; fixed to 8.04
[15:41] <ligemeget> nice. thanks
[15:41] <cjwatson> (I don't think intrepid is open yet, but even if I'm wrong it's still undergoing substantial skew)
[15:43] <jdstrand> kees: fyi-- ruby1.9 built today in my schroot, so I pushed it to intrepid (not sure what changed in there, but the tests now complete without hanging)
[15:45] <jdstrand> (in my up to date intrepid schroot that is)
[15:59] <Kopfgeldjaeger> a new rhythmbox version will come out today
[16:06] <YokoZar> pitti: *poke*
[16:06] <pitti> eek
[16:07] <ScottK> pitti: Would you please have a look at Bug #246118 and advise us on how to proceed.
[16:07] <ScottK> I'm comfortable with copying to hardy-updates, from hardy-backports.
[16:16] <pitti> tjaalton: argh, still building; at this point I'd say, screw ia64 and build it later on that arch
[16:16] <pitti> ScottK: in a minute, still having some three conversations going on, sorry
[16:16] <ScottK> pitti: Thanks.
[16:28] <pitti> ScottK: no library SONAME changes and the like, I figure?
[16:29] <pitti> ScottK: I'm fine with that, given hardy's LTSness
[16:29] <pitti> ScottK: however, I'd be a bit more comfortable with copying it to -proposed first, and/or getting some testimonials from other users first
[16:30] <pitti> oh, it doesn't build a library any more, nevermind me
[16:32] <pitti> ScottK: bug updated
[16:32] <ScottK> pitti: Thanks.
[16:33] <ScottK> YokoZar: ^^^ There you go.
[16:33] <YokoZar> pitti: Thank you :)
[16:51] <tseliot> cjwatson: can I have a word with you in private?
[16:52] <cjwatson> tseliot: I'm afraid I'm just about to leave for some hours; feel free to leave me an IRC message, or e-mail me
[16:53] <tseliot> cjwatson: I'll send you an email. Thanks
[16:58] <kees> jdstrand: yay heisenbugfixes :)
[16:58] <pitti> good morning kees
[16:58] <kees> hi pitti! :)
[18:13]  * ogra wonders if slangasek is around for a NEW package ...
[18:15] <LucidFox> pitti, since you accepted f-spot, maybe you could review the gnome-keyring-sharp MIR?
[18:18] <pitti> LucidFox: looking
[18:21] <pitti> LucidFox: done, that was an easy one
[18:22] <LucidFox> thanks!
[18:41] <mkrufky> whats up with launchpad karma dropping all the time by itself?
[18:41] <mkrufky> thats discouraging
[18:41] <lamont> Function `ephy_window_get_active_embed' implicitly converted to pointer at seahorse-extension.c:242
[18:41] <lamont> bad seahorse
[18:52] <calc> the extra ram didn't do that much, but at least it will be helpful for vm's etc
[18:52] <calc> er do much to speed up OOo i mean
[18:53] <infinity> calc: Nothing speeds up OOo.
[18:54] <Iulian> Riddell: Please don't sync giver yet. I am preparing another upload to Debian. I will let you know when it's ready to sync.
[19:00] <calc> infinity: true, though its not too bad i guess, 55m35s real
[19:01] <calc> i think it might have shaved about 9m off between the hd and ram upgrade
[19:29] <tjaalton> pitti: hmm, that would mean another round of rebuilds just for ia64?
[19:38] <_MMA_> slangasek: Should I add "vorbis-tools" to bug 201291 as packages are being added to it that generate vorbis files with the .ogg extension and not .oga. Maybe I'm reading it wrong?
[20:55] <scobby> hi everyone
[20:57] <scobby> i am using hardy with new kernel from intrepid (because of wlan) after i rebootet my sound is a little bit buggy. i think sound output goes out of my system bell(not the speaker)
[20:57] <scobby> but not every sound output
[20:58] <scobby> when i start kvpnc the sound is crackling
[21:06] <lamalex> scobby: /topic
[21:35] <calc> 146m18 without cache, 55m35 with cache
[21:35] <calc> still pretty slow :\
[21:36]  * calc needs a quad core cpu
[21:46] <Pupeno> What's the package for the Keyboard Layout configuration tool?
[22:27] <enrico> Riddell: Hi.  It looks like in Hardy there's a version of Debtags with bug #472911 (Data files are embarassingly created in the wrong place)
[22:30] <geser> kees, jdstrand: Hi, I'm not sure if you are the right persons but do you know which is a secure default for mode (3rd parameter) when calling open(..., O_CREAT, mode)?
[22:33] <kees> geser: well, if it's only going to be used by the program itself, then just 0700 should be right
[22:33] <kees> geser: or rather, S_IRWXU
[22:33] <kees> or perhaps  S_IRUSR|S_IWUSR
[22:33] <kees> since the file is likely not executable.  :)
[22:34] <cjwatson> mkrufky: you should ask in #launchpad if you actually want to know, but I suspect that it decays somewhat over time so that karma gives current strong contributors preference over retired strong contributors
[22:34] <kees> so, I guess I should add that to the wiki.
[22:34] <mkrufky> yeah, i figured.  instead, it just made me not care
[22:34] <mkrufky> i'll fix a bug if i can
[22:34] <mkrufky> btu im not going to loko at the "karma" points anymore ... fump dat!
[22:35] <geser> kees: there is a wiki page with suggested fixes for the error from the hardened gcc like "error: call to '__open_missing_mode' declared with attribute error: open with O_CREAT in second argument needs 3 arguments"?
[22:36] <cjwatson> mkrufky: I'm afraid this is the wrong place to rant
[22:36] <kees> geser: right, that's what I'm updating now.
[22:36] <cjwatson> mkrufky: also, is it worth getting het up about a number? :-)
[22:36] <mkrufky> cjwatson: im not ranting ...   i am still happily fixing bugs.  no problem
[22:37] <wgrant> mkrufky: https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/Karma
[22:37] <mkrufky> chill -- it;s all good.  i just asked why the points drop, i got my answer, gave a tiny commentary, and now i am back to fixing bugs again -- nobody is upset
[22:37] <infinity> mkrufky: I'm sure your karma is better than mine, and I use launchpad more than most people do, so... Y'know... Don't complain. :)
[22:38] <geser> kees: where is that page?
[22:38] <wgrant> infinity: No karma for kicking buildds? Aw.
[22:38] <kees> geser: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags
[22:38] <infinity> wgrant: No karma for anything soyuz-related.
[22:38] <mkrufky> wgrant: thanks for that link
[22:39] <geser> kees: thanks
[22:39] <wgrant> infinity: This is true. Though it is meant to eventually be happening. ANd was targetted to 1.1.9.
[22:39] <kees> geser: np.  I added the mode recommendations to it now.
[23:31] <emgent> heya