=== salgado is now known as salgado-afk
MootBotMeeting started at 21:02. The chair is barry.03:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]03:00
barryhi everybody and welcome to this week's asiapac reviewers's meeting.  who's here today?03:01
barryjml, mwhudson ping?03:01
jmlI'm here03:02
mwhudsonoh hi03:02
barryhi!  any word from thumper?03:02
mwhudsonwell, he's at guadec03:02
barrymwhudson: ah, right03:02
barryspiv: hi!03:02
barry[TOPIC] agenda03:03
MootBotNew Topic:  agenda03:03
barry * Roll call03:03
barry * Next meeting03:03
barry * Action items03:03
barry * Queue status03:03
barry * Mentoring update03:03
barry  * cprov mentor, abentley mentor03:03
barry * Review process03:03
barry  * Ensure that all outgoing http connections go through a proxy (intellectronica)03:03
barry  * Ensure in database code that non-DB state is reset at transaction03:03
barry  boundaries (flacoste)03:03
barry[TOPIC] next meeting03:03
MootBotNew Topic:  next meeting03:03
barrynext week, same time and place?03:04
barrythat will likely be my last meeting until august03:04
mwhudsonwould another time be more convenient for you?03:05
barrymwhudson: probably not.  i'll be sprinting on the 22nd and camping on the 29th (for you, my 21st and 28th)03:05
barrymwhudson: but would you like to chair those meetings instead?03:05
mwhudsonum, ok03:06
barry[AGREED] mwhudson to chair last two asiapac meetings in july03:07
MootBotAGREED received:  mwhudson to chair last two asiapac meetings in july03:07
barry[TOPIC] Action items03:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Action items03:07
barry * mwhudson to start discussion on page test purpose03:07
mwhudsonum, yeah, sorry03:07
mwhudsoncarry it forward, i do really mean to do this :)03:08
barrymwhudson: np, but can you start that up before our montreal sprint?  i'm hoping we can actually jfdi on some things when we're up there03:08
mwhudsonbarry: that's in two weeks time?03:08
barrymwhudson: yep03:08
barrymwhudson: awesome, thanks03:08
barry * thumper to submit a bug for moving ftests contents to tests03:08
barryhe's not here but i think this wasn't done03:08
mwhudsoni don't think so either03:09
barrycool, we'll just carry it forward03:09
barry * barry to ask lifeless to summarize what he knows about the PQM Mysteries (e.g. autopacking bug losing branches)03:09
barryi suck03:09
barry * jml to find out how divmodders test their javascript03:09
jmlbarry: I emailed their list and got some interesting replies.03:09
jmlbarry: I'll actually need to get my hands dirty to finish the exercise.03:10
jmlbarry: and I haven't had a chance yet.03:10
barryjml: cool.  this is another thing i'm hoping we attack in montreal, so any information you can provide before then will be great03:10
barry[TOPIC]  * Queue status03:11
MootBotNew Topic:   * Queue status03:11
barrynothing really from me on that.  anything from you guys?03:11
jmlbarry: the summary is (from memory): JSUnit + subunit run in tests, boy we wish we had a well-tested fake DOM.03:11
jmlnone from me.03:11
barryjml: very interesting03:11
mwhudsonwe still have a queue? :)03:12
barrymwhudson: :)03:12
barry1.99 baby!03:12
jmlbarry: i.e. they haven't actually changed it much since I set it up.03:12
barryjml: ah.  are they having much success with it?03:12
jmlbarry: I think so. They say the lack of integration tests is kind of forcing them to separate as much logic as possible.03:13
jmlwhich is kind of a pyrrhic victory03:14
* barry nods03:14
barryjml: thanks for the feedback.  we're going to see a lot more js this next release and i think many of us are worried about testing (if we aren't already)03:15
jmlbarry: anyway, I'll hack around with their stuff and send an email to the list.03:15
barryjml: thanks!03:15
* barry skips the mentoring topic03:16
barry[TOPIC]  * Review process03:16
MootBotNew Topic:   * Review process03:16
barry  * Ensure that all outgoing http connections go through a proxy (intellectronica)03:16
barrylet me see if i can channel him03:16
mwhudsonok, so this is a bit wrong03:16
barrymwhudson: ?  (go ahead)03:16
mwhudsona better summary would be 'be aware of the network environment your code will see in production'03:16
mwhudsonbecause, for example, on vostok you _don't_ have to go through a proxy03:17
barrymwhudson: very good point.  do we have any kind of comprehensive description of the environment code will see on various machines?03:18
mwhudsoni don't know if it's because i spend a lot of time talking to the OSAs for one reason and another, but i do feel that i perhaps know more about the production systems than most developers03:18
jmlhaving shell access to some of the helps :)03:19
barrymwhudson: i would dearly love to have a wiki page describing the prod system environments *for the developers and reviewers*03:19
mwhudsonthere is https://devpad.canonical.com/~mthaddon/Launchpad_Production_System.png03:19
mwhudsonbut it doesn't have outgoing connections03:19
mwhudsonjml: yeah, probably03:19
barrymwhudson: right03:19
jmlbarry: there's https://launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadProductionDocumentation linked to from https://devpad.canonical.com/~joey/03:20
jmlbarry: I agree that more docs on the production systems would be a good thing.03:20
mwhudsonjml: right, and i've already found a bunch of out of date stuff on this :)03:20
mwhudson(it doesn't have the new code import system on it)03:20
jmlbarry: perhaps the solution is to incrementally improve the ones we have.03:20
jmlmwhudson: *nod* I saw that too :)03:21
Rinchen(if you have changes, send them to Joey :-)03:21
barryRinchen: howdy!03:21
barryRinchen: do you think LaunchpadProductionDocumentation is the right place to capture this information?03:21
Rinchenhi :-)03:21
barryif so, i will send a message to the ml asking people to update it with what they know03:21
barryif not, we can start another page03:22
Rinchenprobably.... but that page is "owned" by the LOSAs03:22
jmlRinchen: hi03:22
Rinchenso one thing we should do is ask them to fill in any holes we have03:22
barryRinchen: ah, then it's probably /not/ the right place.  i want a page that is for devs and reviewers03:22
Rinchenthe goal of the devpage page was to capture all of the more operational aspects in one place03:22
mwhudsonbarry: i'm not sure that's a very meaningful distinction03:23
Rinchenit depends really on what kinds of documentation you want captured03:23
jmluse cases!03:23
Rinchenthere is no reason that page can't be used by devs and reviewers for example03:23
barrywhat i think would be useful would be special environmental considerations you need to know when writing code or reviewing code destined for some production machine03:24
barrye.g. vostok can make outgoing connections03:24
barryRinchen: cool, if you tell me LPD is the right place, we'll use that!03:24
mwhudsoni think as a practical thing, launchpad devs do really need to know a fair bit about operational things03:24
Rinchenfrom you said barry, yep that's the right place.03:25
barrymwhudson: +103:25
Rinchenthere is also a lot of config information that sinzui build into the config tests03:25
barryRinchen: cool03:25
mwhudsonat least in part because there are 30 devs and 3 OSAs03:25
spivmwhudson: I agree.  Developers can't ignore deployment reality, as much as they might like to :)03:25
Rinchenit's like a whole config user guide in the tests03:25
Rinchenbarry, your other option would be a separate reviewer checklist03:26
barryRinchen: i think i'd like to keep it all in one place, ideally03:26
spivbarry: +1 for one place03:26
barryRinchen: mind if i email the list asking to update that page with operational details for the dev & reviewer?03:26
Rinchenthen LPD is probably the right place.  I don't think the LOSAs would mind03:26
Rinchenbarry,  go4it03:26
mwhudsonmaybe we could add "will the code be able to make the network connections it needs to make" and a link to LPD to the codereviewerchecklist03:27
Rinchenyou can probably just email the losas and ask them03:27
barrymwhudson: +103:27
barryRinchen: +103:27
barry[ACTION] barry to email losas and devs about LPD page03:27
MootBotACTION received:  barry to email losas and devs about LPD page03:27
Rinchenok, I'm up by 2 so it's time to cash out while my luck is good. :-) Enjoy your meeting.03:28
barryRinchen: cheers!03:28
mwhudsonwe should/could ask tom to include outgoing traffic on one of those diagrams03:28
barrymwhudson: good idea03:28
barry  * Ensure in database code that non-DB state is reset at transaction03:28
barry  boundaries (flacoste)03:28
barryi think i know what this is about, but it's a new item so i want to give flacoste a shot at it on wednesday03:29
barryunless y'all have any comments about it?03:29
mwhudsonwell, step 1 is "try not to have non-DB state" isn't it?03:29
barrymwhudson: i would think so03:30
mwhudsonbut i admit it had totally failed to occur to me that cachedproperty might muck around with this03:31
barrywell, that's it from me.  anything from you guys?03:32
jmlumm one thing03:32
jmlwhy is review-submit checking for sampledata changes?03:32
jmlmaybe it's something in my local set up, but I'm getting false positives all the time.03:32
barryjml: that was added by sinzui as a defense against sampledata getting out of date03:33
barrythe problem is that it was /already/ out of date, so we need to land a branch to just fix the damn thing03:33
barryi almost got to it today, but will probably do one tomorrow03:33
jmlwhat does "out of date" mean here?03:33
barryjml: changes to the database not reflected in sampledata03:33
barryi.e. a column gets added with no default03:34
barryor, really, e.g. :)03:34
jmlbarry: hmm. so it will flag the developer if they've been mucking around with their launchpad.dev?03:34
barryjml: yep03:34
jmlbarry: I don't think that's such a good idea.03:34
barryjml: or at least, i think so03:34
barryjml: the issue is that we've had problems with sampledata not matching the schema and this is suposed to prevent such breakage03:35
spivThat sounds like something the test suite should check, rather than review-submit?03:36
jmlbarry: I think the test suite is a better place to put such a check.03:36
spivjml: snap03:36
barryit's currently a 'make lint'.  i don't remember exactly why it was done that way03:37
barryi seem to remember the reasoning was sound at the time ;)03:37
jmlwell, pylint already gives me enough false positives. having more checks that do so seems like a step backwards to me.03:38
spivMail the list/sinzui about it?03:38
barryspiv: +103:38
barryanything else?03:39
barrycool.  have a great week everybody!03:39
MootBotMeeting finished at 21:41.03:39
jmlbarry: thanks03:39
* mwhudson disagrees with MootBot's clock03:40
=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch
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=== salgado-lunch is now known as salgado
=== bac is now known as bac|away
=== salgado is now known as salgado-afk
=== bac|away is now known as bac
=== bac is now known as bac|away

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