| === salgado is now known as salgado-afk | ||
| barry | #startmeeting | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| MootBot | Meeting started at 21:02. The chair is barry. | 03:00 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 03:00 |
| barry | hi everybody and welcome to this week's asiapac reviewers's meeting. who's here today? | 03:01 |
| barry | jml, mwhudson ping? | 03:01 |
| jml | hi! | 03:02 |
| jml | I'm here | 03:02 |
| mwhudson | oh hi | 03:02 |
| barry | hi! any word from thumper? | 03:02 |
| mwhudson | well, he's at guadec | 03:02 |
| spiv | Hi | 03:02 |
| barry | mwhudson: ah, right | 03:02 |
| barry | spiv: hi! | 03:02 |
| barry | [TOPIC] agenda | 03:03 |
| MootBot | New Topic: agenda | 03:03 |
| barry | * Roll call | 03:03 |
| barry | * Next meeting | 03:03 |
| barry | * Action items | 03:03 |
| barry | * Queue status | 03:03 |
| barry | * Mentoring update | 03:03 |
| barry | * cprov mentor, abentley mentor | 03:03 |
| barry | * Review process | 03:03 |
| barry | * Ensure that all outgoing http connections go through a proxy (intellectronica) | 03:03 |
| barry | * Ensure in database code that non-DB state is reset at transaction | 03:03 |
| barry | boundaries (flacoste) | 03:03 |
| barry | [TOPIC] next meeting | 03:03 |
| MootBot | New Topic: next meeting | 03:03 |
| barry | next week, same time and place? | 03:04 |
| mwhudson | sure | 03:04 |
| barry | that will likely be my last meeting until august | 03:04 |
| mwhudson | hm | 03:05 |
| mwhudson | would another time be more convenient for you? | 03:05 |
| barry | mwhudson: probably not. i'll be sprinting on the 22nd and camping on the 29th (for you, my 21st and 28th) | 03:05 |
| barry | mwhudson: but would you like to chair those meetings instead? | 03:05 |
| mwhudson | um, ok | 03:06 |
| barry | [AGREED] mwhudson to chair last two asiapac meetings in july | 03:07 |
| MootBot | AGREED received: mwhudson to chair last two asiapac meetings in july | 03:07 |
| barry | [TOPIC] Action items | 03:07 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Action items | 03:07 |
| barry | * mwhudson to start discussion on page test purpose | 03:07 |
| mwhudson | um, yeah, sorry | 03:07 |
| mwhudson | carry it forward, i do really mean to do this :) | 03:08 |
| barry | mwhudson: np, but can you start that up before our montreal sprint? i'm hoping we can actually jfdi on some things when we're up there | 03:08 |
| mwhudson | barry: that's in two weeks time? | 03:08 |
| barry | mwhudson: yep | 03:08 |
| mwhudson | ok | 03:08 |
| barry | mwhudson: awesome, thanks | 03:08 |
| barry | * thumper to submit a bug for moving ftests contents to tests | 03:08 |
| barry | he's not here but i think this wasn't done | 03:08 |
| mwhudson | i don't think so either | 03:09 |
| barry | cool, we'll just carry it forward | 03:09 |
| barry | * barry to ask lifeless to summarize what he knows about the PQM Mysteries (e.g. autopacking bug losing branches) | 03:09 |
| barry | i suck | 03:09 |
| barry | * jml to find out how divmodders test their javascript | 03:09 |
| jml | barry: I emailed their list and got some interesting replies. | 03:09 |
| jml | barry: I'll actually need to get my hands dirty to finish the exercise. | 03:10 |
| jml | barry: and I haven't had a chance yet. | 03:10 |
| barry | jml: cool. this is another thing i'm hoping we attack in montreal, so any information you can provide before then will be great | 03:10 |
| barry | [TOPIC] * Queue status | 03:11 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * Queue status | 03:11 |
| barry | nothing really from me on that. anything from you guys? | 03:11 |
| jml | barry: the summary is (from memory): JSUnit + subunit run in tests, boy we wish we had a well-tested fake DOM. | 03:11 |
| jml | none from me. | 03:11 |
| barry | jml: very interesting | 03:11 |
| mwhudson | we still have a queue? :) | 03:12 |
| barry | mwhudson: :) | 03:12 |
| barry | 1.99 baby! | 03:12 |
| jml | barry: i.e. they haven't actually changed it much since I set it up. | 03:12 |
| barry | jml: ah. are they having much success with it? | 03:12 |
| jml | barry: I think so. They say the lack of integration tests is kind of forcing them to separate as much logic as possible. | 03:13 |
| jml | which is kind of a pyrrhic victory | 03:14 |
| * barry nods | 03:14 | |
| barry | jml: thanks for the feedback. we're going to see a lot more js this next release and i think many of us are worried about testing (if we aren't already) | 03:15 |
| jml | barry: anyway, I'll hack around with their stuff and send an email to the list. | 03:15 |
| barry | jml: thanks! | 03:15 |
| * barry skips the mentoring topic | 03:16 | |
| barry | [TOPIC] * Review process | 03:16 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * Review process | 03:16 |
| barry | * Ensure that all outgoing http connections go through a proxy (intellectronica) | 03:16 |
| barry | let me see if i can channel him | 03:16 |
| mwhudson | ok, so this is a bit wrong | 03:16 |
| barry | mwhudson: ? (go ahead) | 03:16 |
| mwhudson | a better summary would be 'be aware of the network environment your code will see in production' | 03:16 |
| mwhudson | because, for example, on vostok you _don't_ have to go through a proxy | 03:17 |
| barry | mwhudson: very good point. do we have any kind of comprehensive description of the environment code will see on various machines? | 03:18 |
| mwhudson | i don't know if it's because i spend a lot of time talking to the OSAs for one reason and another, but i do feel that i perhaps know more about the production systems than most developers | 03:18 |
| jml | having shell access to some of the helps :) | 03:19 |
| barry | mwhudson: i would dearly love to have a wiki page describing the prod system environments *for the developers and reviewers* | 03:19 |
| mwhudson | there is https://devpad.canonical.com/~mthaddon/Launchpad_Production_System.png | 03:19 |
| mwhudson | but it doesn't have outgoing connections | 03:19 |
| mwhudson | jml: yeah, probably | 03:19 |
| barry | mwhudson: right | 03:19 |
| jml | barry: there's https://launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadProductionDocumentation linked to from https://devpad.canonical.com/~joey/ | 03:20 |
| jml | barry: I agree that more docs on the production systems would be a good thing. | 03:20 |
| mwhudson | jml: right, and i've already found a bunch of out of date stuff on this :) | 03:20 |
| mwhudson | (it doesn't have the new code import system on it) | 03:20 |
| jml | barry: perhaps the solution is to incrementally improve the ones we have. | 03:20 |
| jml | mwhudson: *nod* I saw that too :) | 03:21 |
| Rinchen | (if you have changes, send them to Joey :-) | 03:21 |
| barry | Rinchen: howdy! | 03:21 |
| barry | Rinchen: do you think LaunchpadProductionDocumentation is the right place to capture this information? | 03:21 |
| Rinchen | hi :-) | 03:21 |
| barry | if so, i will send a message to the ml asking people to update it with what they know | 03:21 |
| barry | if not, we can start another page | 03:22 |
| Rinchen | probably.... but that page is "owned" by the LOSAs | 03:22 |
| jml | Rinchen: hi | 03:22 |
| Rinchen | so one thing we should do is ask them to fill in any holes we have | 03:22 |
| barry | Rinchen: ah, then it's probably /not/ the right place. i want a page that is for devs and reviewers | 03:22 |
| Rinchen | the goal of the devpage page was to capture all of the more operational aspects in one place | 03:22 |
| mwhudson | barry: i'm not sure that's a very meaningful distinction | 03:23 |
| Rinchen | it depends really on what kinds of documentation you want captured | 03:23 |
| jml | use cases! | 03:23 |
| Rinchen | there is no reason that page can't be used by devs and reviewers for example | 03:23 |
| barry | what i think would be useful would be special environmental considerations you need to know when writing code or reviewing code destined for some production machine | 03:24 |
| barry | e.g. vostok can make outgoing connections | 03:24 |
| barry | Rinchen: cool, if you tell me LPD is the right place, we'll use that! | 03:24 |
| mwhudson | i think as a practical thing, launchpad devs do really need to know a fair bit about operational things | 03:24 |
| Rinchen | from you said barry, yep that's the right place. | 03:25 |
| barry | mwhudson: +1 | 03:25 |
| Rinchen | there is also a lot of config information that sinzui build into the config tests | 03:25 |
| barry | Rinchen: cool | 03:25 |
| mwhudson | at least in part because there are 30 devs and 3 OSAs | 03:25 |
| spiv | mwhudson: I agree. Developers can't ignore deployment reality, as much as they might like to :) | 03:25 |
| Rinchen | it's like a whole config user guide in the tests | 03:25 |
| Rinchen | barry, your other option would be a separate reviewer checklist | 03:26 |
| barry | Rinchen: i think i'd like to keep it all in one place, ideally | 03:26 |
| spiv | barry: +1 for one place | 03:26 |
| barry | Rinchen: mind if i email the list asking to update that page with operational details for the dev & reviewer? | 03:26 |
| Rinchen | then LPD is probably the right place. I don't think the LOSAs would mind | 03:26 |
| Rinchen | barry, go4it | 03:26 |
| mwhudson | maybe we could add "will the code be able to make the network connections it needs to make" and a link to LPD to the codereviewerchecklist | 03:27 |
| Rinchen | you can probably just email the losas and ask them | 03:27 |
| barry | mwhudson: +1 | 03:27 |
| barry | Rinchen: +1 | 03:27 |
| barry | [ACTION] barry to email losas and devs about LPD page | 03:27 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: barry to email losas and devs about LPD page | 03:27 |
| Rinchen | ok, I'm up by 2 so it's time to cash out while my luck is good. :-) Enjoy your meeting. | 03:28 |
| barry | Rinchen: cheers! | 03:28 |
| mwhudson | we should/could ask tom to include outgoing traffic on one of those diagrams | 03:28 |
| barry | mwhudson: good idea | 03:28 |
| barry | * Ensure in database code that non-DB state is reset at transaction | 03:28 |
| barry | boundaries (flacoste) | 03:28 |
| barry | i think i know what this is about, but it's a new item so i want to give flacoste a shot at it on wednesday | 03:29 |
| barry | unless y'all have any comments about it? | 03:29 |
| mwhudson | well, step 1 is "try not to have non-DB state" isn't it? | 03:29 |
| barry | mwhudson: i would think so | 03:30 |
| mwhudson | but i admit it had totally failed to occur to me that cachedproperty might muck around with this | 03:31 |
| barry | yep | 03:31 |
| barry | well, that's it from me. anything from you guys? | 03:32 |
| jml | umm one thing | 03:32 |
| jml | why is review-submit checking for sampledata changes? | 03:32 |
| jml | maybe it's something in my local set up, but I'm getting false positives all the time. | 03:32 |
| barry | jml: that was added by sinzui as a defense against sampledata getting out of date | 03:33 |
| barry | the problem is that it was /already/ out of date, so we need to land a branch to just fix the damn thing | 03:33 |
| barry | i almost got to it today, but will probably do one tomorrow | 03:33 |
| jml | what does "out of date" mean here? | 03:33 |
| barry | jml: changes to the database not reflected in sampledata | 03:33 |
| barry | i.e. a column gets added with no default | 03:34 |
| barry | or, really, e.g. :) | 03:34 |
| jml | barry: hmm. so it will flag the developer if they've been mucking around with their launchpad.dev? | 03:34 |
| barry | jml: yep | 03:34 |
| jml | barry: I don't think that's such a good idea. | 03:34 |
| barry | jml: or at least, i think so | 03:34 |
| barry | jml: the issue is that we've had problems with sampledata not matching the schema and this is suposed to prevent such breakage | 03:35 |
| spiv | That sounds like something the test suite should check, rather than review-submit? | 03:36 |
| jml | barry: I think the test suite is a better place to put such a check. | 03:36 |
| spiv | jml: snap | 03:36 |
| barry | it's currently a 'make lint'. i don't remember exactly why it was done that way | 03:37 |
| barry | i seem to remember the reasoning was sound at the time ;) | 03:37 |
| jml | well, pylint already gives me enough false positives. having more checks that do so seems like a step backwards to me. | 03:38 |
| spiv | Mail the list/sinzui about it? | 03:38 |
| barry | spiv: +1 | 03:38 |
| jml | ok. | 03:38 |
| barry | anything else? | 03:39 |
| jml | nope | 03:39 |
| barry | cool. have a great week everybody! | 03:39 |
| barry | #endmeeting | 03:39 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 21:41. | 03:39 |
| jml | barry: thanks | 03:39 |
| * mwhudson disagrees with MootBot's clock | 03:40 | |
| === mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch | ||
| === salgado-afk is now known as salgado | ||
| === mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell | ||
| === salgado is now known as salgado-lunch | ||
| === salgado-lunch is now known as salgado | ||
| === bac is now known as bac|away | ||
| === salgado is now known as salgado-afk | ||
| === bac|away is now known as bac | ||
| === bac is now known as bac|away | ||
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