=== salgado is now known as salgado-afk [03:00] #startmeeting [03:00] Meeting started at 21:02. The chair is barry. [03:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [03:01] hi everybody and welcome to this week's asiapac reviewers's meeting. who's here today? [03:01] jml, mwhudson ping? [03:02] hi! [03:02] I'm here [03:02] oh hi [03:02] hi! any word from thumper? [03:02] well, he's at guadec [03:02] Hi [03:02] mwhudson: ah, right [03:02] spiv: hi! [03:03] [TOPIC] agenda [03:03] New Topic: agenda [03:03] * Roll call [03:03] * Next meeting [03:03] * Action items [03:03] * Queue status [03:03] * Mentoring update [03:03] * cprov mentor, abentley mentor [03:03] * Review process [03:03] * Ensure that all outgoing http connections go through a proxy (intellectronica) [03:03] * Ensure in database code that non-DB state is reset at transaction [03:03] boundaries (flacoste) [03:03] [TOPIC] next meeting [03:03] New Topic: next meeting [03:04] next week, same time and place? [03:04] sure [03:04] that will likely be my last meeting until august [03:05] hm [03:05] would another time be more convenient for you? [03:05] mwhudson: probably not. i'll be sprinting on the 22nd and camping on the 29th (for you, my 21st and 28th) [03:05] mwhudson: but would you like to chair those meetings instead? [03:06] um, ok [03:07] [AGREED] mwhudson to chair last two asiapac meetings in july [03:07] AGREED received: mwhudson to chair last two asiapac meetings in july [03:07] [TOPIC] Action items [03:07] New Topic: Action items [03:07] * mwhudson to start discussion on page test purpose [03:07] um, yeah, sorry [03:08] carry it forward, i do really mean to do this :) [03:08] mwhudson: np, but can you start that up before our montreal sprint? i'm hoping we can actually jfdi on some things when we're up there [03:08] barry: that's in two weeks time? [03:08] mwhudson: yep [03:08] ok [03:08] mwhudson: awesome, thanks [03:08] * thumper to submit a bug for moving ftests contents to tests [03:08] he's not here but i think this wasn't done [03:09] i don't think so either [03:09] cool, we'll just carry it forward [03:09] * barry to ask lifeless to summarize what he knows about the PQM Mysteries (e.g. autopacking bug losing branches) [03:09] i suck [03:09] * jml to find out how divmodders test their javascript [03:09] barry: I emailed their list and got some interesting replies. [03:10] barry: I'll actually need to get my hands dirty to finish the exercise. [03:10] barry: and I haven't had a chance yet. [03:10] jml: cool. this is another thing i'm hoping we attack in montreal, so any information you can provide before then will be great [03:11] [TOPIC] * Queue status [03:11] New Topic: * Queue status [03:11] nothing really from me on that. anything from you guys? [03:11] barry: the summary is (from memory): JSUnit + subunit run in tests, boy we wish we had a well-tested fake DOM. [03:11] none from me. [03:11] jml: very interesting [03:12] we still have a queue? :) [03:12] mwhudson: :) [03:12] 1.99 baby! [03:12] barry: i.e. they haven't actually changed it much since I set it up. [03:12] jml: ah. are they having much success with it? [03:13] barry: I think so. They say the lack of integration tests is kind of forcing them to separate as much logic as possible. [03:14] which is kind of a pyrrhic victory [03:14] * barry nods [03:15] jml: thanks for the feedback. we're going to see a lot more js this next release and i think many of us are worried about testing (if we aren't already) [03:15] barry: anyway, I'll hack around with their stuff and send an email to the list. [03:15] jml: thanks! [03:16] * barry skips the mentoring topic [03:16] [TOPIC] * Review process [03:16] New Topic: * Review process [03:16] * Ensure that all outgoing http connections go through a proxy (intellectronica) [03:16] let me see if i can channel him [03:16] ok, so this is a bit wrong [03:16] mwhudson: ? (go ahead) [03:16] a better summary would be 'be aware of the network environment your code will see in production' [03:17] because, for example, on vostok you _don't_ have to go through a proxy [03:18] mwhudson: very good point. do we have any kind of comprehensive description of the environment code will see on various machines? [03:18] i don't know if it's because i spend a lot of time talking to the OSAs for one reason and another, but i do feel that i perhaps know more about the production systems than most developers [03:19] having shell access to some of the helps :) [03:19] mwhudson: i would dearly love to have a wiki page describing the prod system environments *for the developers and reviewers* [03:19] there is https://devpad.canonical.com/~mthaddon/Launchpad_Production_System.png [03:19] but it doesn't have outgoing connections [03:19] jml: yeah, probably [03:19] mwhudson: right [03:20] barry: there's https://launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadProductionDocumentation linked to from https://devpad.canonical.com/~joey/ [03:20] barry: I agree that more docs on the production systems would be a good thing. [03:20] jml: right, and i've already found a bunch of out of date stuff on this :) [03:20] (it doesn't have the new code import system on it) [03:20] barry: perhaps the solution is to incrementally improve the ones we have. [03:21] mwhudson: *nod* I saw that too :) [03:21] (if you have changes, send them to Joey :-) [03:21] Rinchen: howdy! [03:21] Rinchen: do you think LaunchpadProductionDocumentation is the right place to capture this information? [03:21] hi :-) [03:21] if so, i will send a message to the ml asking people to update it with what they know [03:22] if not, we can start another page [03:22] probably.... but that page is "owned" by the LOSAs [03:22] Rinchen: hi [03:22] so one thing we should do is ask them to fill in any holes we have [03:22] Rinchen: ah, then it's probably /not/ the right place. i want a page that is for devs and reviewers [03:22] the goal of the devpage page was to capture all of the more operational aspects in one place [03:23] barry: i'm not sure that's a very meaningful distinction [03:23] it depends really on what kinds of documentation you want captured [03:23] use cases! [03:23] there is no reason that page can't be used by devs and reviewers for example [03:24] what i think would be useful would be special environmental considerations you need to know when writing code or reviewing code destined for some production machine [03:24] e.g. vostok can make outgoing connections [03:24] Rinchen: cool, if you tell me LPD is the right place, we'll use that! [03:24] i think as a practical thing, launchpad devs do really need to know a fair bit about operational things [03:25] from you said barry, yep that's the right place. [03:25] mwhudson: +1 [03:25] there is also a lot of config information that sinzui build into the config tests [03:25] Rinchen: cool [03:25] at least in part because there are 30 devs and 3 OSAs [03:25] mwhudson: I agree. Developers can't ignore deployment reality, as much as they might like to :) [03:25] it's like a whole config user guide in the tests [03:26] barry, your other option would be a separate reviewer checklist [03:26] Rinchen: i think i'd like to keep it all in one place, ideally [03:26] barry: +1 for one place [03:26] Rinchen: mind if i email the list asking to update that page with operational details for the dev & reviewer? [03:26] then LPD is probably the right place. I don't think the LOSAs would mind [03:26] barry, go4it [03:27] maybe we could add "will the code be able to make the network connections it needs to make" and a link to LPD to the codereviewerchecklist [03:27] you can probably just email the losas and ask them [03:27] mwhudson: +1 [03:27] Rinchen: +1 [03:27] [ACTION] barry to email losas and devs about LPD page [03:27] ACTION received: barry to email losas and devs about LPD page [03:28] ok, I'm up by 2 so it's time to cash out while my luck is good. :-) Enjoy your meeting. [03:28] Rinchen: cheers! [03:28] we should/could ask tom to include outgoing traffic on one of those diagrams [03:28] mwhudson: good idea [03:28] * Ensure in database code that non-DB state is reset at transaction [03:28] boundaries (flacoste) [03:29] i think i know what this is about, but it's a new item so i want to give flacoste a shot at it on wednesday [03:29] unless y'all have any comments about it? [03:29] well, step 1 is "try not to have non-DB state" isn't it? [03:30] mwhudson: i would think so [03:31] but i admit it had totally failed to occur to me that cachedproperty might muck around with this [03:31] yep [03:32] well, that's it from me. anything from you guys? [03:32] umm one thing [03:32] why is review-submit checking for sampledata changes? [03:32] maybe it's something in my local set up, but I'm getting false positives all the time. [03:33] jml: that was added by sinzui as a defense against sampledata getting out of date [03:33] the problem is that it was /already/ out of date, so we need to land a branch to just fix the damn thing [03:33] i almost got to it today, but will probably do one tomorrow [03:33] what does "out of date" mean here? [03:33] jml: changes to the database not reflected in sampledata [03:34] i.e. a column gets added with no default [03:34] or, really, e.g. :) [03:34] barry: hmm. so it will flag the developer if they've been mucking around with their launchpad.dev? [03:34] jml: yep [03:34] barry: I don't think that's such a good idea. [03:34] jml: or at least, i think so [03:35] jml: the issue is that we've had problems with sampledata not matching the schema and this is suposed to prevent such breakage [03:36] That sounds like something the test suite should check, rather than review-submit? [03:36] barry: I think the test suite is a better place to put such a check. [03:36] jml: snap [03:37] it's currently a 'make lint'. i don't remember exactly why it was done that way [03:37] i seem to remember the reasoning was sound at the time ;) [03:38] well, pylint already gives me enough false positives. having more checks that do so seems like a step backwards to me. [03:38] Mail the list/sinzui about it? [03:38] spiv: +1 [03:38] ok. [03:39] anything else? [03:39] nope [03:39] cool. have a great week everybody! [03:39] #endmeeting [03:39] Meeting finished at 21:41. [03:39] barry: thanks [03:40] * mwhudson disagrees with MootBot's clock === mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch === salgado-afk is now known as salgado === mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell === salgado is now known as salgado-lunch === salgado-lunch is now known as salgado === bac is now known as bac|away === salgado is now known as salgado-afk === bac|away is now known as bac === bac is now known as bac|away