/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/07/08/#ubuntu+1.txt

RAOFgnomefreak: Yeah, I know.  All the drivers need a rebuild.  I'm sure timo's on it.00:06
RAOFikonia: It would, if any of the drivers in the archive had the right ABI :)00:06
ikoniaI've tested it on fedora too00:07
ikoniafunny enough00:07
RAOFRight.  And they'll have rebuilt all their drivers.  Know if nvidia loads on the new server?00:08
null_vectorI can find out in a minute.00:08
ikoniaRAOF: the driver physically loads yes00:08
RAOFikonia: How about "works" :)00:08
ikoniaRAOF: tricky, you get a display, but lots of drop outs00:09
RAOFHeh.  How about 3D?00:10
ikonianot tested that as I don't do anything 3d on my test kit00:10
ikoniamy cards wouldnt be a fair test as they are too poor00:11
RAOFI meant: does it work _at all_.00:13
gnomefreakRAOF: he should have test packages ready since i test them most of time anyway00:14
ikoniaRAOF: dri is enabled, thats as far as I got00:14
RAOFNot that nvidia use dri at all :)00:14
null_vectorHmm, is xserver-xorg-core only supposed to contain one file and only under /etc00:40
null_vector?00:40
RAOFI don't believe so, no :)00:40
null_vectorwell then, I believe there's a problem00:40
RAOFYou haven't installed the xserver-xorg-core update, have you?00:41
null_vectorI'm guessing so00:41
RAOFThat would be bad, because you've uninstalled all your drivers.00:41
RAOFAll your input and video drivers, at least.00:41
null_vectorand I have no Xorg executable00:42
RAOFThen you don't have xserver-xorg-core installed.00:45
RAOFnull_vector: You've probably just uninstalled everything because of package conflicts.00:46
null_vectorAh, sorry.  You're right.  Can't install xserver-xorg00:47
RAOFThat's right.00:48
RAOFWelcome to Intrepid.00:48
null_vectorDon't need X tonight anyways. *g*00:49
gnomefreakdoes anyone have issues printing in Intrepid?01:31
gnomefreaki thought that was fixed already :(01:31
cjbHi.  The latest intrepid update looks to have hosed X.  Is there a fix?03:20
cjb(xserver-xorg-core is marked broken.)03:21
RAOFYes.  The fix is to wait while all the drivers are rebuilt.03:22
RAOFWelcome to intrepid03:22
cjbfair enough.  :)03:22
=== Hobbsee changed the topic of #ubuntu+1 to: X is broken | Welcome to the home of the Intrepid Ibex, the code name for the next release of Ubuntu due out in October. For more info, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex | Intrepid is ALPHA software, and we do NOT recommend users upgrade at this time. Only developers comfortable with very significant instability and recovering from systems which have suffered up to total system failure should consider running Intrepid for now.
Pici:)03:24
RAOFHobbsee: Good plan03:37
Hobbseeindeed03:37
s3a_is this were developpers are?03:42
IdleOnes3a_, some are here03:53
IdleOne#ubuntu-dev03:53
s3a_IdleOne: any developper here find my idea logical? its not popular but it is logical ---> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/10780/03:57
IdleOnes3a_, sorry i did not see you post your idea03:57
s3a_IdleOne: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/10780/03:57
RAOFs3a_: In what way is that different to Iceweasel?03:58
cjbI think it's the same thing.03:58
s3a_RAOF: Iceweasel isnt in ubuntu 8.04 free software only mode03:59
s3a_icecat is the successor of iceweasel03:59
s3a_firefox is03:59
Hobbseeiceweasel isn't in ubuntu anyway, it apperas.03:59
RAOFs3a_: The successor?  In what way?03:59
cjbI guess iceweasel comes from Debian, and icecat comes from GNU03:59
RAOFOh, yay.04:00
RAOFMore pointless firefox forks :P04:00
s3a_RAOF: well like look at wikipedia (i probly made wrong choice of words ---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat04:00
s3a_"formerly known as iceweasel"04:00
RAOFOk, not actually pointless :)04:00
s3a_RAOF: r u talkin to me?04:00
RAOFNo, just in generaly04:00
s3a_so wait is iceweasel in ubuntu 8.10 free software only mode or is it still firefox?04:01
Hobbseesomehow, i can't imagine both forks getting maintained.04:01
s3a_well iceweasel is icecat04:01
RAOFApparently not.04:01
s3a_ok well some sort of free firefox should be added to ubuntu 8.10's free software only mode04:02
s3a_and keep firefox in the normal mode04:02
IdleOneit is simple enough for a user to install whatever browser they want but I think at fresh install time there needs to be a recognized ( by most users ) browser04:02
RAOFI think it would be better to use Epiphany, anyway.04:02
s3a_RAOF: i currently do use epiphany04:02
RAOFRight.  All the fun of firefox, none of the trademark issues.04:02
s3a_IdleOne: free software only users arent the same time of ppl tho04:03
s3a_IdleOne: ppl that press f6 twice on boot usually no wat they want04:03
IdleOnes3a_, true and those people already know how to install a different browser if they need to04:03
s3a_IdleOne: ya but the point is, y should we have to make a million changes?04:03
s3a_IdleOne: my idea doesnt interfere with normal users04:04
IdleOneif we start trying to accomadate every type of user Ubuntu will become sooner then later a 6 cd install like other distro's04:04
Hobbseebecause they won't stick two almost identical browsers into main.04:04
s3a_IdleOne: firefox and icecat are the same thing so basically no extra space is being used except for artwork which must be very small size04:05
Hobbseeexcept that it doesn't work that way...04:05
RAOFs3a_: No, they're not.04:05
s3a_RAOF: icecat uses the source code of firefox04:05
Hobbseeand ubuntu distributes binaries.04:05
RAOFs3a_: No, it doesn't.  It's patched.04:05
IdleOnes3a_, your idea is good and probably worth exploring but I dont see how adding another choice to the installer will help "new users" convert. all it will do is make things more complicated.04:06
RAOFIdleOne: It's not a new choice; it's refining an existing choice.04:06
s3a_IdleOne: new users wont use the free software only mode04:06
s3a_IdleOne: bcuz they most likely havent been introduced to free as in freedom theory04:07
IdleOneRAOF, new converts to linux don't want to be confused at install time. they want a point and click system04:07
RAOFIdleOne: This option _already exists_.04:07
s3a_wait wat option04:08
IdleOneI am not the best person to be speaking on this subject anyhow04:08
RAOFs3a_: The "free-software-only" option.04:08
s3a_every1 talkin without addressing 1 another confuses me04:08
* Hobbsee suggests running debian, for the extremely free version, with a large chunk of documentation yoinked.04:08
IdleOneI don't do any dev work so....04:08
s3a_RAOF: well ya i no, i installed ubuntu 8.04 with this option04:08
s3a_or a even better idea04:09
RAOFs3a_: Yes.  IdleOne is arguing against this based on the mistaken premise that it will introduce a _new_ option.04:09
* RAOF is arguing against this based on "meh".04:09
IdleOnes3a_, so what you want is the ability to install a browser that allows you to modify the source/artwork/icons and all that?04:09
IdleOneRAOF, yes I was arguing that exact point not knowing the option already exists :/04:10
s3a_load a bunch of apps that ppl want on a dvd and have them choose normal install as would a normal cd or advanced if they want to go thru the hell of making it their own (normal users can choose normal install and that will install a non-bloated OS)..just cuz the dvd can be bloated doesnt mean the actual HD install should be04:10
lymecaIs this about Iceweael?04:10
s3a_lymeca: well icecat04:10
s3a_(formerly known as iceweasel)04:10
lymecaWhoa Iceweasel changed names?!?04:11
s3a_lymeca: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat04:12
RAOFlymeca: No.  Diffenent project.04:12
lymecaI'm checkin it out now04:12
IdleOnewhat I would like is a browser name that is not animal in nature. "Internet Explorer" great name for a browser to bad it is owned by the wrong people. "Netscape" another great name. you read that name and you know what it is supposed to do. FireFox. how is that internet related?04:12
RAOFIdleOne: What are you saying?  The internet is all about fire!04:13
s3a_lol04:13
s3a_ya and foxes04:13
s3a_..04:13
IdleOneRAOF, mostly04:13
IdleOne:P04:13
s3a_ok but seriously, am i like the only 1 that believes in this idea? http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/10780/04:14
cjbs3a_: doesn't seem like a big deal to me.04:14
IdleOnes3a_, me either04:14
s3a_ok look04:14
cjbThe code is free.  Getting upset over trademarks is a waste of time.04:14
RAOFs3a_: You'd probably be better off trying to get firefox removed from the free version, and replaced with epiphany.04:14
s3a_heres wats more important than the artwork04:14
s3a_the fact that icecat points to only free plugins such as gnash and doesn't have proprietary things like amazon in the toolbar04:15
cjbum, firefox doesn't have amazon in the toolbar.04:15
cjboh, you mean the search toolbar04:15
cjbthat's a web search04:15
cjbare you saying you don't use google, because it's proprietary?04:15
s3a_lol04:16
cjbif so, I'd love to know what you use instead.04:16
s3a_well04:16
IdleOnes3a_, at some point in time ever a "Only free software" user needs to go to a propietary site and buy something04:16
IdleOnes/ever/even04:16
s3a_ok but the plugin thing still stands04:16
s3a_like look04:16
s3a_adobe i dont think has 64 bit support04:16
s3a_or not a good one04:16
IdleOneif gnash did the job then I would use it04:16
s3a_ya but for 64 bit, isnt it more worthwile to support a community project over adobe that u have to "yell at" for them to do sumtin04:17
RAOFThe firefox plugin installer offers non-free, gnash and swfdec in Intrepid (and probably Hardy).04:17
IdleOneRAOF, it does04:18
cjbyeah.  see, I think you're making my "huge waste of time" point for me here.04:18
RAOFI kinda see what you're saying, but pulling in Iceweasel/Icecat is a lot of work for marginal gain.04:18
RAOFYou'd get much more traction with "don't install firefox, install epiphany instead"04:18
lymecaWell I don't see any harm in packaging IceCat alongside Firefox.  Obviously Firefox should remain default in Ubuntu but there's no reason a Universe package couldn't offer the choice of IceCat.04:18
lymecaAlso, I think that people who really care about this shouldn't use Ubuntu.04:19
lymecaBut more choice is never a bad thing.04:19
s3a_lymeca: wasnt that the point of gobuntu??04:19
s3a_and f6 option was to copy gobuntu04:19
lymecaSure I suppose it was but...04:19
RAOFlymeca: "More choice is never a bad thing" is one of my pet peves.04:19
RAOFThat statement is exactly wrong.04:19
s3a_wat statement?04:20
RAOFs3a_: "More choice is never a bad thing"04:20
lymecaI don't think so04:20
lymecaI mean another package in universe?04:20
RAOFlymeca: Which won't get any security updates, I guarantee you.04:21
lymecaMaybe if you install Firefox and IceCat alongside each other by default.  That would be bad and confusing.04:21
RAOFOr, if it _does_ get security updates, is taking valuable time away from maintaining the useful part of Universe.04:21
lymecaRAOF: This is merely going off of your opinion about wat is useful.04:22
Hobbseelymeca: do you have someone who is going to commit to continue updating it, if it's in the repository?04:22
lymecaIsn't the Firefox package in 'main'?  Doesn't it also include Talkback?04:22
RAOFlymeca: Indeed it is.  But my opinion is of slightly higher weight than an arbitrary person's, because _I'm one of the people who'll be asked to do this work for you_.04:23
s3a_IceCat is made for ppl that choose the Free software only option and Firefox is made for those dont choose it so y not just do what i said..04:23
RAOFs3a_: Because it's an awful lot of work.04:23
Hobbseelymeca: yes, it is.  i meant iceweasel, or icecat.04:23
s3a_RAOF: the whole free software only was only 13 lines of code04:23
RAOFs3a_: Which is why asking to have firefox removed and replaced by epiphany is a better thing to ask for.04:23
Hobbsees3a_: are you volunteering?04:24
s3a_volunteering for wat epiphany?04:24
Hobbsee[13:22] <Hobbsee> lymeca: do you have someone who is going to commit to continue updating it, if it's in the repository?04:24
RAOFs3a_: Irrelevant.  It's going to be an entirely separate package.  It'll be a lot more work, for marginal gain.04:24
RAOFWhereas Epiphany is _already_ in main, and is already nice and free.04:24
s3a_so wats the suggestion if any?04:25
lymecaWell I'll point out again that Ubuntu is one of the lesser places I would look to for true Free Software through and through, from binary blobs in the kernel to officially supported proprietary software to software in main being non-free.  Because it's so tainted already I would not personally put the effort in to packaging it for Ubuntu.04:25
lymecaI would however, for Gobuntu.04:26
RAOFs3a_: Ask to have Firefox removed from the super-free desktop, and replaced by Epiphany.04:26
HobbseeRAOF: i presume that if they personally wish for something to go in, despite what they've been told, then they personally will be listed as the maintainer, and will have to update it.04:27
s3a_well ive heard for gobuntu that gobuntu 8.04 would have epiphany04:27
s3a_but it never got made04:27
HobbseeRAOF: which means it's not your problem.  although, if they don't maintain it, you can easily file a removal request.04:27
lymecaIsn't Gobuntu dead or something?04:27
s3a_well04:27
s3a_lymeca: it needs ppl to test it04:27
s3a_and report bugs04:27
s3a_thats wat wikipedia or the wiki said04:27
s3a_and lack of developpers04:28
RAOFHobbsee: Yeah, fair enough.  But we've got a fairly high bar for pulling packages, I think.04:28
HobbseeRAOF: depends.  if it's duplicated, and out of date...04:29
RAOF...mayhap :)04:29
Hobbseetis a pity i can't do removals.04:29
s3a_is there a way to find out if developpers would still want to work on gobuntu?04:29
Hobbseeemail ubuntu-devel-discuss and ask?04:30
s3a_cuz gnewsense is x86 only, has no 6 month release schedule and is not truly part of the ubuntu family04:30
s3a_Hobbsee: do u no the exact email address to contact canonical or wtv if there is 1?04:30
Hobbseeit looks like it is a gobuntu-devel mailing list, too04:31
Hobbseehttps://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Gobuntu-devel04:31
Hobbseethat would be a good lot of people to get in touch with04:31
Hobbsees3a_: there are many.04:31
s3a_Hobbsee: any website link?04:31
Hobbsees3a_: i can tell you though, that it'd be extremely unlikely they'd put another browser like firefox and epiphany into main, due to duplication of code, and the likely lack of maintenance it would get.04:32
s3a_omg is there an easy startoff programming language i can learn so that i can actually take part in gobuntu's revival?04:33
* Hobbsee suggests emailing the above list, asking how to help.04:34
Hobbseeand as for canonical, it depends what you're emailing about, as for the most appropriate place to send it04:34
Hobbseepackaging is bash.  c++/c can be useful, as can python and perl.04:36
Hobbseedepends what you're working on04:36
s3a_Hobbsee: but wats the easiest so that i can start?04:37
RAOFKnowing your way around a Makefile is important, too.04:37
Hobbseebash.04:39
Tanis1bash or python i think04:41
RAOFMake's also pretty easy.04:41
Amaranths3a_: gobuntu is being redone as an installer option in the regular ubuntu installer04:44
s3a_Amaranth: ya i no thatr04:44
AmaranthHobbsee: I suspect we'll end up with webkit in main soon04:45
HobbseeAmaranth: mumble.  i'd forgottne about that.04:45
AmaranthHobbsee: GNOME is moving to it and KDE 4 of course04:45
RAOFGiven that Epihphany seems to be losing the gecko backend, and is in main.04:45
HobbseeAmaranth: yes, isnt' it a backend?04:45
AmaranthEverything in GNOME is running to Webkit as fast as possible04:45
AmaranthHobbsee: ?04:46
Hobbseeright, yes.04:46
RAOFIt's a pity gecko was so horrible to embed properly.04:46
Hobbseeisn't webkit a backend, nto a "browser" that you launch itself?04:46
RAOFHobbsee: Right.04:46
Amaranthright but then epiphany is just a UI on top of it04:46
Amaranthso...04:46
HobbseeAmaranth: right, so fortunately, my comment wasn't incorrect :)04:46
LSD|NinjaIf Intrepis is using the webkit backend for gnome, does that mean we can punt firefox? :D04:46
Amaranthand I doubt gobuntu-specific stuff will be on the disc anyway (no space) so if it has to fetch it from the repos it can be in universe04:47
AmaranthLSD|Ninja: Don't you dare try to take my awesomebar04:47
AmaranthFirefox 3 is _good_04:47
AmaranthWebkit is a better engine but Firefox is a better browser04:48
LSD|Ninjawhatever, will apt-get remove mozilla-firefox work without taking half of gnome with it in Intrepid?04:48
Amaranthit does in hardy04:48
Amaranthnothing that uses gecko should depend on firefox, it should depend on xulrunner04:48
LSD|NinjaOh, sweet04:49
=== threethirty is now known as threethirty_away
linda_cutedoes anyone know why my pidgin not in a panel when i minimized it..how can i add to panel?08:36
gnomefreaklinda_cute: what version of ubuntu and version of pidgin08:41
linda_cutehardy heron08:42
linda_cutelatest pidgin08:42
gnomefreaklinda_cute: please ask in #ubuntu08:43
gnomefreaklinda_cute: works here btw08:43
linda_cuteno one answer me on ubuntu08:43
linda_cuteand some of them said to ask in here08:43
gnomefreaklinda_cute: this channel isnt for Hardy suppot08:43
gnomefreaklinda_cute: if #ubuntu cant help you please see the ubuntuforums.org or #ubuntuforums channel08:44
gnomefreaklinda_cute: most likely its a simple bug and you should file a bug report on it at launchpad.net08:45
linda_cutei see08:47
gnomefreaklinda_cute: bug report is best way but on my Intrepid and Hardy it works as expected08:48
greenpenlinda_cute: just to make sure, have you looked in the preferences of pidgin, first tab, show system tray icon?08:49
geek_inn2will alpha 2 show changes08:49
geek_inn2in visuals08:50
geek_inn2on DATE>08:50
gnomefreakgeek_inn2: every release will show changes but gui changes you wont see until late in release08:50
gnomefreakgeek_inn2: they may change the theme but that is about it08:50
linda_cuteshow system tray icon = always <---08:50
linda_cutealready do that08:50
gnomefreakgreenpen: linda_cute is on Hardy please dont help her in here08:50
bazhanglinda_cute, read the /topic here08:50
geek_inn2any indians here08:55
bazhang#ubuntu-in geek_inn208:55
jianfeihi, when is alpha 2 due?09:28
LSD|NinjaWill Alpha 2 bring nVidia drivers?09:30
jianfeiLSD :-)09:30
LSD|NinjaI figure the reason it doesn't have any now is because it uses 2.6.26 butthe problem between that and the nVidia drivers has been fixed I believe09:31
SwedeMikehas it been decided that intrepid will use 2.6.26 ?09:32
LSD|NinjaIsn't it using preleases of that now?09:32
RAOFYes.09:33
RAOFAlso, the nvidia (and fglrx) packaging is changing substantially in Intrepid.  They're no longer a part of linux-restricted-modules, and the packaging is still being finalised.  That's why there's no nvidia drivers yet.09:33
RAOFUnless you mean...09:33
RAOF!nouveau09:33
ubottuNouveau is an experimental open-source nVidia driver, aiming for full 3d support.  Homepage at http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/ - EXPERIMENTAL packages at https://launchpad.net/~raof/+archive09:33
RAOFHa!09:34
SwedeMikebecause I have hardware (via C7 motherboard) that seems to be stable with 2.6.26-rc8 (I compiled my own for hardy), which isn't stable with hardy stock kernel or 2.6.25.9, so if 8.10 will use 2.6.26, that's good news for me09:34
gnomefreakthats why when i searched for that package i couldnt find it09:45
molgrumhmm, is it normal that the new xserver packages is greyed out and every time i try a partial upgrade it fails?12:15
=== acuster is now known as avc_afk
gnomefreakmolgrum: X is broken and will be for a while maybe today or as late as end of week but it should be good by tomorrow.12:39
molgrumok12:39
gnomefreakso yes its normal its protecting you from removing X package12:39
molgrum:)12:39
james_wIs anyone else seeing /usr/bin/perl: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/perl5/auto/Locale/gettext/gettext.so: undefined symbol: Perl_Tstack_sp_ptr ?12:40
james_wI can't find any bug reports12:40
gnomefreakjames_w: nope but i dont play with perl much you would have to give me a way to reproduce.12:49
gnomefreakHas anyone tried opening text docs just by clicking on them and got an error (dont remember the error) but for some reason gedit should handle text docs but isnt being used something else is12:50
=== avc_afk is now known as acuster
jonpackardHas anybody tested LTSP with Intrepid yet?14:02
=== effie is now known as keffie_jayx
jonpackardso X is broken.. anybody know if they want people testing it or should we just not update till they fix it?14:24
Hobbseeit's all being updated - it should finish building soonish.14:25
seisenprobably use at your own risk14:25
Hobbseeprobably give it 24 hours, at least, then test14:25
jonpackardmuch <3 for virtualbox snapshots.. I can make a snapshot and update without worrying about permanently borking my system =)14:26
jonpackard´╗┐Hobbsee: Thanks for the info!14:27
jonpackardltsp-build-client fails with intrepid.. http://pastebin.com/f3341ddcf for details15:10
jonpackard´╗┐Bug 246615 filed.15:36
ubottuLaunchpad bug 246615 in ltsp "LTSP client installation ended abnormally" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24661515:36
=== HardyOne is now known as IdleOne
cbrwhen will X be fixed?16:59
henkeare the nvidia drivers getting removed from linux-restricted-modules?16:59
cbrcbr is not pleased with the current situation :P16:59
james_whenke: yes, see today's mail to ubuntu-devel17:03
henkejames_w: thanks, I'll take a look17:05
cbrdoes anyone have info about the Xorg b0rkage?17:11
james_wcbr: everything is being rebuilt, you should wait until tomorrow for it to shake out.17:12
james_wor if it's a different problem then a little more context would be good.17:12
cbruhm.. tomorrow is an unsatisfactory timeframe :p17:13
cbrsignal 11, xorg segfaults or smth17:13
DanaGI have a policy I like to follow: don't install packages until the changelogs are available.17:40
DanaGIt keeps me one update cycle behind, so I can avoid some of the possible breakage that may happen.17:40
henkejames_w: do you know which packages will carry the nvidia kernel modules instead?17:40
james_whttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-July/025738.html says -71, -96, -173, and -17717:41
james_wnvidia-glx-173 etc.17:42
james_wsee https://edge.launchpad.net/~lrm-intrepid/+archive17:42
henkejames_w: thanks, that shows it better than the mail17:44
=== Pici` is now known as Pici
cbrnow the intel driver got fixed but for some reason kde4 compositing and evdev inputs wont work19:49
cbrare those known stuff?19:49
cbrnow the intel driver got fixed but for some reason kde4 compositing and evdev inp21:12
cbrshit21:12
humboltWhen disabling pulseaudio, do I have to change anything to make dmix and dsnoop the default pcms in hardy? I want the same behaviour like in gutsy!21:45
humboltPutting pulseaudio in an LTS release was a really bad decision!21:45
veeti123i agree that21:45
humbolthow can I get back to a gutsy like alsa system with dmix and dsnoop?21:51
humboltdo I manually need to make dmix the default pcm or is this still there?21:52
Picihumbolt: This is the support channel for Inrepid Ibex, if you need help with Hardy, #ubuntu is the place to be21:52
humboltPici: ok, anyhow it is more likely to find somebody here who would know than in #ubuntu. and I would want to disable pulseaudio in ibex as well!21:53
=== null_vector is now known as null_
linux1evening folks23:39
=== null_ is now known as null_vector
=== Spec is now known as x-spec-t

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