/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/07/08/#ubuntu-artwork.txt

kwwiibeen testing 10 and 9 and 9 seems to be realistic00:00
_MMA_Studio dropped things to 9. I kept that on the desktop.00:00
kwwiiwe could also ask others on the page00:00
SalaneWell I think whatever font we choose, that changing the settings is a must.00:00
kwwiiwiki page I mean00:00
SalaneDo it!00:00
SalaneThats is whats it is for00:00
kwwiibut that might only draw people who want to comment on that wiki page00:00
_MMA_kwwii: Are we using dejavu now?00:00
kwwiiso it is not really a good example of what a normal user expects00:01
_MMA_Ubuntu I mean.00:01
kwwii_MMA_: yes, we are using dejavu condensed00:01
Salanebut it has horrible settings00:01
_MMA_Use "book".00:01
kwwiiwhich was my choice when I started :-)00:01
_MMA_kwwii: I think "book" is closer to the norm "sans" and such.00:01
_MMA_kwwii: I would just have one of the guys drop the default size and push that through.00:02
_MMA_Seb or someone.00:02
Salane_MMA_ : would you post an example?00:02
SalaneWell that and give it subpixel smoothing and slight hinting00:02
_MMA_Salane: No. I talk here. I have enough on my plate. ;) Sorry.00:03
kwwii_MMA_: yes, but on your desktop you really want a condensed font00:03
kwwiito save space00:03
kwwiiMS has tahoma for that00:03
SalaneErr Segoe UI on Vista.00:04
kwwiibut the dejavu condensed fonts look like crap00:04
kwwiiyeah, segoe, right00:04
_MMA_Salane: There were some legal concerns as the types of font hinting. Debian even goes so far as to show a box about this when you turn on full. Default might be pushing it if thats not sorted.00:04
_MMA_Something owned by Apple IIRC.00:04
kwwiiit was a big deal a few months ago00:04
kwwiiapparently things have changed though00:04
kwwiifrom what I have heard00:04
_MMA_Cool. Try to dig up a link if you can.00:05
SalaneSo what should happen I think is we should research a little more, about usablity and licensing. Then decide the week before the next CC when Mark wants us to present our decisions.00:05
_MMA_Salane: I lok forward to your findings. :)00:06
_MMA_*look00:06
kwwiiSalane: the CC is not the only way to work things out00:06
SalaneMark requested we present them.00:06
_MMA_Its actually not proper.00:07
_MMA_Present them sure. But not at a CC meeting.00:07
Salaneehh that is what he requested.00:07
kwwiiright, that seems like a bit of overkill to me00:07
_MMA_Salane: Log saying her wants them presented at a CC meeting?00:08
_MMA_*he00:08
kwwiiI would guess that part of the reason he requested it is because you brought up the subject at a CC meeting00:08
kwwiihe tried to take CC meetings very seriously (understandably)00:08
SalaneWell I wasnt familiar with the process. It isnt very clear - I just feel inspired to help.00:08
SalaneI thought it was a good opportunity.00:08
kwwiiand he has told me to discuss this with you to see where we can get ahead00:08
SalaneOk00:09
kwwiiI have full authority to change whatever I want :-)00:09
SalaneOk00:09
kwwiiand enough experience not go at it willy-nilly00:09
Salanewell lets give the fonts a while. We need to get moving on icons and themes.00:09
kwwiiI think that we could finish the fonts discussion and present the results once we know what is best without a problem00:10
SalaneI agree00:10
kwwiias an example of icon themes, 3 years ago I started the oxygen icons00:10
SalaneYou started them?00:10
SalaneNice00:10
kwwiiit is not something you do within a couple of months00:11
kwwiior with only 1 or 2 people00:11
SalaneI figured as such00:11
SalaneOxygen is beautiful00:12
kwwiiI found jobs for 2 artists to work fulltime on oxygen for 2+ years00:12
kwwiithat was a lot of stress00:12
kwwiigood artists do not normally work for free00:12
SalaneYeah00:12
savvasthey stick a sign "Will work for food" :p00:13
SalaneWell what do you think we should do?00:13
savvasj/k :)00:13
kwwiiwell, almost 1:30 am here...time for sleep00:13
kwwiiI think that we should keep moving forward...get people to work on things and respond00:13
kwwiiresponse only means no work gets done00:13
SalaneOk this is what I will do. The theme wont be as bad as the icons... illl create some concepts to kick around.00:13
SalaneTalk to people who are good at creating themes.00:14
Salaneand get that started00:14
kwwii99.9% of the people on the art list want to offer their opinion of how things are and do little creative work00:14
kwwiiyepp00:14
SalaneI am learning Gtk as we speak00:14
Salaneso some day I can do stuff.00:14
kwwii:-)00:14
SalaneAs for icons, id like to hear more from you.00:15
SalaneConsidering you have vast experience with it.00:15
kwwiihehe, I worked doing all the suse artwork (and marketing material) for 7 years and 2 with canonical in the meantime00:17
kwwiiso I have some experience in linux themeing one might say00:17
SalaneGoodness00:17
SalaneI feel lameeeeeeee00:17
_MMA_Why?00:19
kwwiiyou can learn something every day00:19
SalaneWell here I am having used Linux for 2 years, and only doing GD work for 6 months or so00:20
Salanebut one thing is for sure- i know what looks good and what sells.00:20
_MMA_Salane: The trick will be to not get frustrated with the system and figure out how to work with it. Find your place and listen to the old heads.00:21
SalaneI will do so.00:21
kwwiiexactly00:21
SalaneAfter all, mark said over the next 2 years he wants this to improve.00:21
_MMA_Mark wants alot of things. :P00:21
Salanehaha00:21
_MMA_Trick is finding what he wants without him telling us.00:22
SalaneWell il continue to crank our mockups.00:22
SalaneAnd coordinate and inspire people to help.00:22
SalaneIm worried about icons now!00:23
Salanelol00:23
_MMA_Mock-ups count for not if their not technically possible. There are *great* mocks on the wiki that will never exist.00:23
kwwiiI want a million dollars but just because I want it and think that it would be right does not mean that I will get it00:23
kwwiimockups are the easy part00:23
kwwiidoing something is the hard part00:24
kwwiifor anyone00:24
SalaneI know. But if I can get some people to help -00:24
kwwiithen it would definitely be good00:24
_MMA_Salane: Good luck to you. Not to be a pessimist and all. ;)00:24
SalaneIts just decisions need to be made. Nothing will get done if no one makes decisions and stick with them. They need to be realistic yet push forward!00:25
_MMA_´╗┐Salane: Many including Ken have tried. Things go great for a bit then people drop off. Happens every time.00:25
kwwiidecisions need to be made very carefuly or you push people away00:26
kwwiithen again, sometimes certain people need to be pushed away00:26
Salane:D00:26
kwwiiat least if they only talk00:26
_MMA_Salane: Problem has been, the decision maker has been Mark and he hasn't been great at communicating what he wants. Maybe that will change.00:26
SalaneAt thats what a lot of people do.00:26
kwwiihonestly, 99% of what we get is commentary00:26
_MMA_*99.9999%00:26
Salanehaha00:26
kwwiia good artist comes along, presents his/her stuff and then mark says "can you change this part of it?" a couple of times and they simply get sick of it00:27
SalaneWell how about we retire for the evening/night/morning, think about things.00:27
kwwiifree, open source artwork is worth more than people know00:28
SalaneWith fonts, we need to do more research.00:28
kwwiiyeah, time for sleep here00:28
kwwiidefinitely00:28
_MMA_bye00:28
SalaneWith icons - I am lost.00:28
SalaneAnd with a theme00:28
kwwiihave you talked to the people mark suggested yet?00:28
SalaneI have no contact info.00:28
kwwiiI can get that to you00:28
Salanewith a theme- il lfind the right people.00:28
SalaneThat would be great00:28
kwwiiright, let's keep in touch00:28
kwwiihave a nice evening, it's morning here already :-)00:29
kwwiisee you soon, I hope00:29
SalaneSorry!00:29
SalaneGood day/morning/night... etc etc...00:29
SalaneIll get to working on what I can.00:29
pwnguinis there something better than fontforge to use for improving fonts?02:41
_MMA_pwnguin: Not that I know of.03:30
=== zerwas_ is now known as zerwas
=== conn_ is now known as psyke83
psyke83hey16:39
kwwiipsyke83: btw, the latest updates should be in by now16:45
psyke83kwwii, I noticed, thanks :)16:53
psyke83kwwii, any news developments/ideas on NewHuman?16:57

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