[00:00] <kwwii> been testing 10 and 9 and 9 seems to be realistic
[00:00] <_MMA_> Studio dropped things to 9. I kept that on the desktop.
[00:00] <kwwii> we could also ask others on the page
[00:00] <Salane> Well I think whatever font we choose, that changing the settings is a must.
[00:00] <kwwii> wiki page I mean
[00:00] <Salane> Do it!
[00:00] <Salane> Thats is whats it is for
[00:00] <kwwii> but that might only draw people who want to comment on that wiki page
[00:00] <_MMA_> kwwii: Are we using dejavu now?
[00:01] <kwwii> so it is not really a good example of what a normal user expects
[00:01] <_MMA_> Ubuntu I mean.
[00:01] <kwwii> _MMA_: yes, we are using dejavu condensed
[00:01] <Salane> but it has horrible settings
[00:01] <_MMA_> Use "book".
[00:01] <kwwii> which was my choice when I started :-)
[00:01] <_MMA_> kwwii: I think "book" is closer to the norm "sans" and such.
[00:02] <_MMA_> kwwii: I would just have one of the guys drop the default size and push that through.
[00:02] <_MMA_> Seb or someone.
[00:02] <Salane> _MMA_ : would you post an example?
[00:02] <Salane> Well that and give it subpixel smoothing and slight hinting
[00:03] <_MMA_> Salane: No. I talk here. I have enough on my plate. ;) Sorry.
[00:03] <kwwii> _MMA_: yes, but on your desktop you really want a condensed font
[00:03] <kwwii> to save space
[00:03] <kwwii> MS has tahoma for that
[00:04] <Salane> Err Segoe UI on Vista.
[00:04] <kwwii> but the dejavu condensed fonts look like crap
[00:04] <kwwii> yeah, segoe, right
[00:04] <_MMA_> Salane: There were some legal concerns as the types of font hinting. Debian even goes so far as to show a box about this when you turn on full. Default might be pushing it if thats not sorted.
[00:04] <_MMA_> Something owned by Apple IIRC.
[00:04] <kwwii> it was a big deal a few months ago
[00:04] <kwwii> apparently things have changed though
[00:04] <kwwii> from what I have heard
[00:05] <_MMA_> Cool. Try to dig up a link if you can.
[00:05] <Salane> So what should happen I think is we should research a little more, about usablity and licensing. Then decide the week before the next CC when Mark wants us to present our decisions.
[00:06] <_MMA_> Salane: I lok forward to your findings. :)
[00:06] <_MMA_> *look
[00:06] <kwwii> Salane: the CC is not the only way to work things out
[00:06] <Salane> Mark requested we present them.
[00:07] <_MMA_> Its actually not proper.
[00:07] <_MMA_> Present them sure. But not at a CC meeting.
[00:07] <Salane> ehh that is what he requested.
[00:07] <kwwii> right, that seems like a bit of overkill to me
[00:08] <_MMA_> Salane: Log saying her wants them presented at a CC meeting?
[00:08] <_MMA_> *he
[00:08] <kwwii> I would guess that part of the reason he requested it is because you brought up the subject at a CC meeting
[00:08] <kwwii> he tried to take CC meetings very seriously (understandably)
[00:08] <Salane> Well I wasnt familiar with the process. It isnt very clear - I just feel inspired to help.
[00:08] <Salane> I thought it was a good opportunity.
[00:08] <kwwii> and he has told me to discuss this with you to see where we can get ahead
[00:09] <Salane> Ok
[00:09] <kwwii> I have full authority to change whatever I want :-)
[00:09] <Salane> Ok
[00:09] <kwwii> and enough experience not go at it willy-nilly
[00:09] <Salane> well lets give the fonts a while. We need to get moving on icons and themes.
[00:10] <kwwii> I think that we could finish the fonts discussion and present the results once we know what is best without a problem
[00:10] <Salane> I agree
[00:10] <kwwii> as an example of icon themes, 3 years ago I started the oxygen icons
[00:10] <Salane> You started them?
[00:10] <Salane> Nice
[00:11] <kwwii> it is not something you do within a couple of months
[00:11] <kwwii> or with only 1 or 2 people
[00:11] <Salane> I figured as such
[00:12] <Salane> Oxygen is beautiful
[00:12] <kwwii> I found jobs for 2 artists to work fulltime on oxygen for 2+ years
[00:12] <kwwii> that was a lot of stress
[00:12] <kwwii> good artists do not normally work for free
[00:12] <Salane> Yeah
[00:13] <savvas> they stick a sign "Will work for food" :p
[00:13] <Salane> Well what do you think we should do?
[00:13] <savvas> j/k :)
[00:13] <kwwii> well, almost 1:30 am here...time for sleep
[00:13] <kwwii> I think that we should keep moving forward...get people to work on things and respond
[00:13] <kwwii> response only means no work gets done
[00:13] <Salane> Ok this is what I will do. The theme wont be as bad as the icons... illl create some concepts to kick around.
[00:14] <Salane> Talk to people who are good at creating themes.
[00:14] <Salane> and get that started
[00:14] <kwwii> 99.9% of the people on the art list want to offer their opinion of how things are and do little creative work
[00:14] <kwwii> yepp
[00:14] <Salane> I am learning Gtk as we speak
[00:14] <Salane> so some day I can do stuff.
[00:14] <kwwii> :-)
[00:15] <Salane> As for icons, id like to hear more from you.
[00:15] <Salane> Considering you have vast experience with it.
[00:17] <kwwii> hehe, I worked doing all the suse artwork (and marketing material) for 7 years and 2 with canonical in the meantime
[00:17] <kwwii> so I have some experience in linux themeing one might say
[00:17] <Salane> Goodness
[00:17] <Salane> I feel lameeeeeeee
[00:19] <_MMA_> Why?
[00:19] <kwwii> you can learn something every day
[00:20] <Salane> Well here I am having used Linux for 2 years, and only doing GD work for 6 months or so
[00:20] <Salane> but one thing is for sure- i know what looks good and what sells.
[00:21] <_MMA_> Salane: The trick will be to not get frustrated with the system and figure out how to work with it. Find your place and listen to the old heads.
[00:21] <Salane> I will do so.
[00:21] <kwwii> exactly
[00:21] <Salane> After all, mark said over the next 2 years he wants this to improve.
[00:21] <_MMA_> Mark wants alot of things. :P
[00:21] <Salane> haha
[00:22] <_MMA_> Trick is finding what he wants without him telling us.
[00:22] <Salane> Well il continue to crank our mockups.
[00:22] <Salane> And coordinate and inspire people to help.
[00:23] <Salane> Im worried about icons now!
[00:23] <Salane> lol
[00:23] <_MMA_> Mock-ups count for not if their not technically possible. There are *great* mocks on the wiki that will never exist.
[00:23] <kwwii> I want a million dollars but just because I want it and think that it would be right does not mean that I will get it
[00:23] <kwwii> mockups are the easy part
[00:24] <kwwii> doing something is the hard part
[00:24] <kwwii> for anyone
[00:24] <Salane> I know. But if I can get some people to help -
[00:24] <kwwii> then it would definitely be good
[00:24] <_MMA_> Salane: Good luck to you. Not to be a pessimist and all. ;)
[00:25] <Salane> Its just decisions need to be made. Nothing will get done if no one makes decisions and stick with them. They need to be realistic yet push forward!
[00:25] <_MMA_> ﻿Salane: Many including Ken have tried. Things go great for a bit then people drop off. Happens every time.
[00:26] <kwwii> decisions need to be made very carefuly or you push people away
[00:26] <kwwii> then again, sometimes certain people need to be pushed away
[00:26] <Salane> :D
[00:26] <kwwii> at least if they only talk
[00:26] <_MMA_> Salane: Problem has been, the decision maker has been Mark and he hasn't been great at communicating what he wants. Maybe that will change.
[00:26] <Salane> At thats what a lot of people do.
[00:26] <kwwii> honestly, 99% of what we get is commentary
[00:26] <_MMA_> *99.9999%
[00:26] <Salane> haha
[00:27] <kwwii> a good artist comes along, presents his/her stuff and then mark says "can you change this part of it?" a couple of times and they simply get sick of it
[00:27] <Salane> Well how about we retire for the evening/night/morning, think about things.
[00:28] <kwwii> free, open source artwork is worth more than people know
[00:28] <Salane> With fonts, we need to do more research.
[00:28] <kwwii> yeah, time for sleep here
[00:28] <kwwii> definitely
[00:28] <_MMA_> bye
[00:28] <Salane> With icons - I am lost.
[00:28] <Salane> And with a theme
[00:28] <kwwii> have you talked to the people mark suggested yet?
[00:28] <Salane> I have no contact info.
[00:28] <kwwii> I can get that to you
[00:28] <Salane> with a theme- il lfind the right people.
[00:28] <Salane> That would be great
[00:28] <kwwii> right, let's keep in touch
[00:29] <kwwii> have a nice evening, it's morning here already :-)
[00:29] <kwwii> see you soon, I hope
[00:29] <Salane> Sorry!
[00:29] <Salane> Good day/morning/night... etc etc...
[00:29] <Salane> Ill get to working on what I can.
[02:41] <pwnguin> is there something better than fontforge to use for improving fonts?
[03:30] <_MMA_> pwnguin: Not that I know of.
[16:39] <psyke83> hey
[16:45] <kwwii> psyke83: btw, the latest updates should be in by now
[16:53] <psyke83> kwwii, I noticed, thanks :)
[16:57] <psyke83> kwwii, any news developments/ideas on NewHuman?