[00:00] been testing 10 and 9 and 9 seems to be realistic [00:00] <_MMA_> Studio dropped things to 9. I kept that on the desktop. [00:00] we could also ask others on the page [00:00] Well I think whatever font we choose, that changing the settings is a must. [00:00] wiki page I mean [00:00] Do it! [00:00] Thats is whats it is for [00:00] but that might only draw people who want to comment on that wiki page [00:00] <_MMA_> kwwii: Are we using dejavu now? [00:01] so it is not really a good example of what a normal user expects [00:01] <_MMA_> Ubuntu I mean. [00:01] _MMA_: yes, we are using dejavu condensed [00:01] but it has horrible settings [00:01] <_MMA_> Use "book". [00:01] which was my choice when I started :-) [00:01] <_MMA_> kwwii: I think "book" is closer to the norm "sans" and such. [00:02] <_MMA_> kwwii: I would just have one of the guys drop the default size and push that through. [00:02] <_MMA_> Seb or someone. [00:02] _MMA_ : would you post an example? [00:02] Well that and give it subpixel smoothing and slight hinting [00:03] <_MMA_> Salane: No. I talk here. I have enough on my plate. ;) Sorry. [00:03] _MMA_: yes, but on your desktop you really want a condensed font [00:03] to save space [00:03] MS has tahoma for that [00:04] Err Segoe UI on Vista. [00:04] but the dejavu condensed fonts look like crap [00:04] yeah, segoe, right [00:04] <_MMA_> Salane: There were some legal concerns as the types of font hinting. Debian even goes so far as to show a box about this when you turn on full. Default might be pushing it if thats not sorted. [00:04] <_MMA_> Something owned by Apple IIRC. [00:04] it was a big deal a few months ago [00:04] apparently things have changed though [00:04] from what I have heard [00:05] <_MMA_> Cool. Try to dig up a link if you can. [00:05] So what should happen I think is we should research a little more, about usablity and licensing. Then decide the week before the next CC when Mark wants us to present our decisions. [00:06] <_MMA_> Salane: I lok forward to your findings. :) [00:06] <_MMA_> *look [00:06] Salane: the CC is not the only way to work things out [00:06] Mark requested we present them. [00:07] <_MMA_> Its actually not proper. [00:07] <_MMA_> Present them sure. But not at a CC meeting. [00:07] ehh that is what he requested. [00:07] right, that seems like a bit of overkill to me [00:08] <_MMA_> Salane: Log saying her wants them presented at a CC meeting? [00:08] <_MMA_> *he [00:08] I would guess that part of the reason he requested it is because you brought up the subject at a CC meeting [00:08] he tried to take CC meetings very seriously (understandably) [00:08] Well I wasnt familiar with the process. It isnt very clear - I just feel inspired to help. [00:08] I thought it was a good opportunity. [00:08] and he has told me to discuss this with you to see where we can get ahead [00:09] Ok [00:09] I have full authority to change whatever I want :-) [00:09] Ok [00:09] and enough experience not go at it willy-nilly [00:09] well lets give the fonts a while. We need to get moving on icons and themes. [00:10] I think that we could finish the fonts discussion and present the results once we know what is best without a problem [00:10] I agree [00:10] as an example of icon themes, 3 years ago I started the oxygen icons [00:10] You started them? [00:10] Nice [00:11] it is not something you do within a couple of months [00:11] or with only 1 or 2 people [00:11] I figured as such [00:12] Oxygen is beautiful [00:12] I found jobs for 2 artists to work fulltime on oxygen for 2+ years [00:12] that was a lot of stress [00:12] good artists do not normally work for free [00:12] Yeah [00:13] they stick a sign "Will work for food" :p [00:13] Well what do you think we should do? [00:13] j/k :) [00:13] well, almost 1:30 am here...time for sleep [00:13] I think that we should keep moving forward...get people to work on things and respond [00:13] response only means no work gets done [00:13] Ok this is what I will do. The theme wont be as bad as the icons... illl create some concepts to kick around. [00:14] Talk to people who are good at creating themes. [00:14] and get that started [00:14] 99.9% of the people on the art list want to offer their opinion of how things are and do little creative work [00:14] yepp [00:14] I am learning Gtk as we speak [00:14] so some day I can do stuff. [00:14] :-) [00:15] As for icons, id like to hear more from you. [00:15] Considering you have vast experience with it. [00:17] hehe, I worked doing all the suse artwork (and marketing material) for 7 years and 2 with canonical in the meantime [00:17] so I have some experience in linux themeing one might say [00:17] Goodness [00:17] I feel lameeeeeeee [00:19] <_MMA_> Why? [00:19] you can learn something every day [00:20] Well here I am having used Linux for 2 years, and only doing GD work for 6 months or so [00:20] but one thing is for sure- i know what looks good and what sells. [00:21] <_MMA_> Salane: The trick will be to not get frustrated with the system and figure out how to work with it. Find your place and listen to the old heads. [00:21] I will do so. [00:21] exactly [00:21] After all, mark said over the next 2 years he wants this to improve. [00:21] <_MMA_> Mark wants alot of things. :P [00:21] haha [00:22] <_MMA_> Trick is finding what he wants without him telling us. [00:22] Well il continue to crank our mockups. [00:22] And coordinate and inspire people to help. [00:23] Im worried about icons now! [00:23] lol [00:23] <_MMA_> Mock-ups count for not if their not technically possible. There are *great* mocks on the wiki that will never exist. [00:23] I want a million dollars but just because I want it and think that it would be right does not mean that I will get it [00:23] mockups are the easy part [00:24] doing something is the hard part [00:24] for anyone [00:24] I know. But if I can get some people to help - [00:24] then it would definitely be good [00:24] <_MMA_> Salane: Good luck to you. Not to be a pessimist and all. ;) [00:25] Its just decisions need to be made. Nothing will get done if no one makes decisions and stick with them. They need to be realistic yet push forward! [00:25] <_MMA_> Salane: Many including Ken have tried. Things go great for a bit then people drop off. Happens every time. [00:26] decisions need to be made very carefuly or you push people away [00:26] then again, sometimes certain people need to be pushed away [00:26] :D [00:26] at least if they only talk [00:26] <_MMA_> Salane: Problem has been, the decision maker has been Mark and he hasn't been great at communicating what he wants. Maybe that will change. [00:26] At thats what a lot of people do. [00:26] honestly, 99% of what we get is commentary [00:26] <_MMA_> *99.9999% [00:26] haha [00:27] a good artist comes along, presents his/her stuff and then mark says "can you change this part of it?" a couple of times and they simply get sick of it [00:27] Well how about we retire for the evening/night/morning, think about things. [00:28] free, open source artwork is worth more than people know [00:28] With fonts, we need to do more research. [00:28] yeah, time for sleep here [00:28] definitely [00:28] <_MMA_> bye [00:28] With icons - I am lost. [00:28] And with a theme [00:28] have you talked to the people mark suggested yet? [00:28] I have no contact info. [00:28] I can get that to you [00:28] with a theme- il lfind the right people. [00:28] That would be great [00:28] right, let's keep in touch [00:29] have a nice evening, it's morning here already :-) [00:29] see you soon, I hope [00:29] Sorry! [00:29] Good day/morning/night... etc etc... [00:29] Ill get to working on what I can. [02:41] is there something better than fontforge to use for improving fonts? [03:30] <_MMA_> pwnguin: Not that I know of. === zerwas_ is now known as zerwas === conn_ is now known as psyke83 [16:39] hey [16:45] psyke83: btw, the latest updates should be in by now [16:53] kwwii, I noticed, thanks :) [16:57] kwwii, any news developments/ideas on NewHuman?