[07:04] <Salane> Anyone here?
[08:23] <MadsRH> ﻿In witch folder can I find the system sounds???
[08:28] <darkmatter> /usr/share/sounds
[08:32] <MadsRH> thanks
[08:50] <MadsRH> Does anyone know if Gcursor works under Hardy? I can't get any response from the app!
[08:51] <MadsRH> Nothing happens when I click the "Install theme" button
[14:07] <jollyr0ger_> hi to all you!
[14:07] <jollyr0ger_> I want to contribuite to improve the newhuman theme
[14:07] <jollyr0ger_> I've found some issues
[14:07] <jollyr0ger_> and I want to show you what they are
[14:08] <jollyr0ger_> there's somebody witch want to know these issues?
[14:09] <jollyr0ger_> oiii
[14:16] <kwwii> jollyr0ger_: sure, shoot
[14:16] <jollyr0ger_> oh great
[14:16] <jollyr0ger_> first, just a simply clarification
[14:16] <kwwii> did you look at the wiki page with known problems?
[14:17] <jollyr0ger_> I've adjusted the newhuman them to be less brown but more gray
[14:17] <kwwii> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/NewHumanTesting
[14:17] <jollyr0ger_> yes
[14:17] <jollyr0ger_> i've shotted other issues
[14:17] <jollyr0ger_> found on my everyday use
[14:17] <jollyr0ger_> I can send you an archive with them?
[14:18] <kwwii> you can add them directly to that page :-)
[14:18] <kwwii> or we discuss it now
[14:18] <kwwii> how many issues are we talking about?
[14:18] <kwwii> and what type of issues?
[14:19] <jollyr0ger_> I've found 7 issues
[14:19] <jollyr0ger_> them are like phrases that are hard to read 'cause are in the wrong color
[14:20] <jollyr0ger_> or are some icon that have a wrong contrast
[14:20] <kwwii> the best thing would be to add them to that wiki page so that they don't get lost
[14:21] <jollyr0ger_> ok, I move to add them now
[14:21] <jollyr0ger_> after I'll signal them to you again
[14:21] <jollyr0ger_> and we can discuss about them
[14:22] <kwwii> cool
[14:22] <kwwii> thanks
[14:55] <jollyr0ger_> I've wrote the issues that I've found on the wiki
[14:55] <jollyr0ger_> if you go to read them
[14:55] <jollyr0ger_> we can discuss about
[14:55] <jollyr0ger_> ok=
[14:55] <jollyr0ger_> ok?
[15:00] <jollyr0ger_> look up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/NewHumanTesting
[15:04] <kwwii> I see your point in pretty much all of them
[15:05] <kwwii> gedit was mentioned already (we'll use a normal light bg instead)
[15:06] <kwwii> your version of the theme seems a bit darker than the original, that makes the icon contrast problems worse
[15:06] <kwwii> the blue link color is also a known issue with several apps
[15:06] <kwwii> all in all, good work :-)
[15:06] <jollyr0ger_> thanks
[15:07] <jollyr0ger_> there are other way to contribute to improve the theme?
[15:07] <kwwii> you can certainly suggest any fixes if you understand gtk
[15:08] <kwwii> in the end I am pretty sure that we will have to use a light colored theme but I want to get this dark one working as well as possible so that we can also include it
[15:09] <jollyr0ger_> ok
[15:09] <jollyr0ger_> i think it's great this dark them
[15:09] <jollyr0ger_> theme
[15:09] <jollyr0ger_> but I don't know if it can be used by everybody
[15:10] <jollyr0ger_> because is not so easy to use for the perso who have visual problem
[15:10] <jollyr0ger_> bu i've seen some mokup that are great
[15:10] <jollyr0ger_> a question
[15:11] <jollyr0ger_> talking about mokup seen on the net
[15:11] <jollyr0ger_> about the new hardy, after intrepid, theme
[15:11] <jollyr0ger_> some graphics have made great works building images
[15:11] <jollyr0ger_> but is possible realize them?
[15:12] <jollyr0ger_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Gimmie-Human
[15:12] <jollyr0ger_> like this
[15:13] <jollyr0ger_> or is not possible to realize them
[15:14] <kwwii> anything is possible but doing that would be a lot of work
[15:15] <kwwii> and as it changes the way the whole desktop works you would have to be sure to convince every gnome desktop developer out there :-)
[15:16] <jollyr0ger_> I think that is too hard :d
[15:19] <jollyr0ger_> do you know if the artwork team is working on intrepid to make more uniform the process of bootup a linux station?
[15:19] <jollyr0ger_> I mean a graphics cover that mask
[15:19] <jollyr0ger_> all the init process from the boot until the login window?
[15:19] <jollyr0ger_> like os x
[15:30] <kwwii> well, the usplash stuff is only the domain of the art team as far as ideas and artwork go, the functionality of it would need to come from a more technically based team
[15:35] <jollyr0ger_> thanks to answer to all my questions. now I leave you. good work
[15:35] <jollyr0ger_> ciao ciao
[15:36] <kwwii> ciao
[16:19]  * kwwii -> store
[17:38] <pwnguin> is there any overlap between the artwork team and the font team?
[17:41] <pwnguin> the ubuntu title font kinda sucks
[22:12] <kooldude> hey
[22:13] <kooldude> im fresh new at this so can someone give me a jumpstart
[22:13] <kooldude> please!!!
[22:20] <kooldude> i have icons
[22:51] <kooldude> hello???
[23:16] <psyke83> kwwii: take a look at the tabs in this screenshot - http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/twf-contrast.png
[23:16] <psyke83> oh - and hi ;)
[23:18] <kwwii> psyke83: hi
[23:18] <kwwii> they are a bit lighter, or?
[23:18] <kwwii> I was going to talk to you about that :-)
[23:18] <kwwii> good thing that you brought it up!
[23:18] <psyke83> nope, the contrast is increased
[23:19] <kwwii> perhaps we should make the bg color to the unfocused tabs a bit lighter?
[23:19] <psyke83> sure... I'm gonna mess with the theme a bit and see if anything can be improved
[23:19] <psyke83> the key to the tabs is contrast, to see the dividing borders
[23:19] <psyke83> I mean the "contrast" engine parameter
[23:20] <kwwii> there was a screenshot on the wiki testing page which showed the tab problems
[23:20] <Cimi> tabs should be redesigned in murrine
[23:20] <kwwii> yes, the lines need to be apparent for the unfocused tabs but the text also somewhat readable
[23:20] <Cimi> also the lightborderratio should be reduced for insensitive widgets
[23:20] <Cimi> there's still a lot of work
[23:20] <kwwii> in general the overall contrast of the unfocused tab bg seems too much to me
[23:20] <kwwii> yepp
[23:20] <psyke83> Cimi: yes I want to reduce the lightborder ratio, but don't know how to isolate the insensitive widgets
[23:21] <Cimi> there isn't
[23:21] <Cimi> just a change in the code can do it
[23:21] <psyke83> kwwii, in that screenshot I set a high contrast just to show how to make the tabs more visibly distinct
[23:21] <kwwii> psyke83: excellent, thanks
[23:22] <kwwii> send me the code and I'll put it in
[23:22] <kwwii> a patch is fine, if you want
[23:22] <kwwii> however is easy for you
[23:23] <psyke83> kwwii, do you want the global contrast increased? It makes the buttons more distinct from the background
[23:25] <kwwii> psyke83: one thing that mark mentioned to me is that he really likes the look of the 3D elements in the theme, it might be nice to add a bit of contrast, yes
[23:25] <kwwii> the things he wants to change are the progress bars and the scrollbars mainly
[23:26] <kwwii> looking at human it is pretty clear that it has a unique style for those elements
[23:26] <psyke83> kwwii, ok... well the separator items look awful with a higher contrast, I need to isolate them in the gtkrc. I've isolated the window seperators, but still have to change menu and toolbar ones
[23:26] <kwwii> I think that he wants something unique like that for ubuntu
[23:26] <kwwii> psyke83: also, I think that the 3D-ness of the menu highlight is somehow too much
[23:26] <psyke83> kwwii, well there is a lot of flexibility in Cimi's new engine to change the gradient pattern, gimme a minute and I'll give an example
[23:27] <kwwii> psyke83: cool, take all the time in the world
[23:27] <psyke83> ok, I'll reduce that
[23:28] <psyke83> kwwii: really rough, just to give an example: http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/Screenshot-TheWidgetFactory.png
[23:29] <kwwii> psyke83: hrm, maybe with a slightly different highlight color that would work well
[23:30] <psyke83> kwwii: I was just showing that the highlight can be changed, I gave it a rather extreme value
[23:30] <kwwii> psyke83: how are you changing this? is it one variable or are you defining a gradient?
[23:30] <psyke83> gradient_shades
[23:32] <kwwii> right, I imagine something with less effect in the saturation would be better
[23:32] <kwwii> although maybe just a tick darker would be enough
[23:33] <kwwii> hard to say when it comes to the fine points
[23:33] <kwwii> psyke83: funky question, what do you do all day? (ie for a living)
[23:34] <psyke83> kwwii, looking for a short-term job right now
[23:34] <psyke83> in a couple of months, I'll be heading (back) to Brazil to continue teaching
[23:35] <kwwii> wow, brazil
[23:36] <psyke83> ;)
[23:36] <psyke83> try this combination: {1.20,1.05,1.20,1.02}
[23:36] <psyke83> could use some tweaking, but it looks nice to me
[23:36] <kwwii> I assumed from your name that you were Irish or such
[23:36] <psyke83> I'm looking just at the buttons for now, other widgets can be different
[23:37] <psyke83> I am Irish :)
[23:37] <kwwii> what leads you to brazil then?
[23:37] <kwwii> and what in the world are you teaching? and why in the heck are do you know so much about gtkrc's?
[23:38] <kwwii> the questions never end :-)
[23:38] <kwwii> sorry
[23:38] <psyke83> I've got a Brazilian girlfriend there, heh. We've been alternating between Ireland and Brazil, it's my turn to go there
[23:38] <kwwii> where does that combination go?
[23:38] <psyke83> I was/will be teaching English in companies and in private classes
[23:39] <psyke83> and... it has nothing to do with gtkrcs, heh
[23:40] <psyke83> I got an urge to see how difficult theming could be, so I did some poking around... that's it
[23:40] <kwwii> hehe, and I am an American in Germany (for 12 years) because of my wife (then girlfriend) ...who actually teaches english at a private company
[23:40] <psyke83> nice, where in Germany?
[23:41] <kwwii> Bamberg, which is in Oberfranken which is in Franken which is in Northern Bavaria
[23:41] <psyke83> Bavaria is beautiful, I've been there before
[23:41] <kwwii> look for the middle of Germany and a little to the south-east
[23:41] <kwwii> I live directly on the Main river in a small village outside of Bamberg
[23:41] <kwwii> quite nice
[23:42] <kwwii> little crime and such compared to where I came from in America :-)
[23:42] <psyke83> what state in America?
[23:42] <kwwii> good place to raise my son
[23:43] <kwwii> St. Louis, Missouri and Phoenix, Arizona...back and forth between my parents
[23:44] <psyke83> nice... I've never been to the U.S. yet (funny that I'd see South America before North, heh)
[23:44] <kwwii> probably better that way :-)
[23:44] <kwwii> anyway, time for sleep here
[23:44] <psyke83> ok, we'll talk later
[23:44] <kwwii> cool, send me anything you think is worthy and we can test it out
[23:45] <psyke83> sure thing
[23:45] <kwwii> I'll be leaving on vacation on August 2 until the 23 so I won't have to have things nailed down until shortly before I leave
[23:46] <kwwii> have you seen the testing page on the wiki?
[23:46] <kwwii> pretty good response I think
[23:46] <psyke83> yep, there's some good feedback there
[23:47] <kwwii> in the end, we need to push some of this back upstream somehow
[23:47] <kwwii> at least talk to the people responsible for the apps and ask them if they see some way to fix this stuff
[23:48] <psyke83> yep, I'll see about filing some bugs soon
[23:48] <kwwii> in the end the dark theme will not be default so it is not really our problem but getting this stuff fixed would really mean a lot to everyone I think
[23:48] <psyke83> sure, and NewHuman can continue evolving as an alternate theme, I suppose
[23:48] <psyke83> what will be default? Ubuntulooks again?
[23:49] <kwwii> if you want to start filing bugs, I think it might be nice to look at things in a broader perspective and also try to open a discussion with some of the app-devs
[23:49] <psyke83> sure
[23:50] <kwwii> i really, really hope that we will use a version of murrine which has the small tweaks that mark wants
[23:50] <kwwii> *wink* at Cimi on this one, we'll see what happens
[23:50] <kwwii> alone, I cannot learn to write gtk engine code without giving up all the other things I do
[23:50] <psyke83> you'll have to tell me another day what tweaks they are, I must have missed the chat
[23:52] <kwwii> mark is generally not happy with the look of the progress bars, doesn't like the stripe and thinks they look to boring...the scrollbars also are too hard to find and miss the extra touch when you find them
[23:52] <kwwii> ie, look at the ubuntulooks theme and think, how can we something very much like this, only different
[23:53] <psyke83> alright
[23:54] <kwwii> ...can we *do* something...
[23:54] <kwwii> anyway, time for sleep
[23:54] <kwwii> again and again I say that
[23:54] <psyke83> heh
[23:55] <kwwii> my mantra
[23:55] <psyke83> nite nite
[23:55] <kwwii> see you soon, I hope
[23:56] <psyke83> sure, I'll be around