[00:43] <mrooney> does anyone know how to leave "developer" comments on ubuntu brainstorm? I am trying to clean up some of the ideas for a package I am a dev of, mark them as completed, leave dev comments etc, but have no idea how
[00:43] <mrooney> perhaps there is a better channel?
[00:45] <RAOF> mrooney: I seem to recall someone calling for developer comments, but I can't remember who now!
[00:46] <LaserJock> mrooney: you probably want to talk to nand or stgraber
[00:48] <RAOF> Hah.  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-June/004530.html is the message I was thinking of.
[00:49] <mrooney> RAOF: thanks!
[00:50] <RAOF> LaserJock gave the potted summary :)
[01:30] <savvas> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15898601/python-apt_0.7.4ubuntu7.2.debdiff
[01:31] <savvas> does this look good?
[01:31] <savvas> should I remove those /tmp/XWl46sWQH9/ and /tmp/SfRmVSfinD/ ?
[01:37] <snadge> ok this is sort of bug related, #ubuntu is infuriating
[01:38] <snadge> where can i see the descriptions for "important" security updates?
[01:38] <snadge> if "The list of changes is not available yet."
[01:39] <savvas> http://www.ubuntu.com/usn
[01:39] <snadge> am i the only one this seems to happen to?
[01:39] <savvas> you have an rss feed there too
[01:39] <snadge> seems to be very common no update descriptions ;)
[01:39] <mrooney> snadge: no, I have always wondered that as well
[01:40] <james_w> snadge: no, it's just an unfortunate lag before they are available on the site for viewing.
[01:40] <snadge> i think its important to push the descriptions with the updates .. seems other people like to leave out this step
[01:41] <snadge> but thankyou .. i will check the svn site, perhaps this url could be mentioned instead of "Please try again later"
[01:41] <mrooney> snadge: not a bad suggestion
[01:41] <savvas> you're talking about the changelog right?
[01:41] <snadge> correct
[01:41] <snadge> its a bit of a catch 22, if you install the update because its "important" then you cant check back later to see why you installed it.. because you've already installed it
[01:41] <savvas> see Bug #13707
[01:41] <savvas> :)
[01:42] <snadge> but if you wait for the description to become available, then you're vulnerable in that time
[01:42] <lkj> hello
[01:42] <mrooney> snadge: you can always do a google search for say "packagename in hardy"
[01:42] <snadge> its always the way.. every problem i ever have and report, someone has beaten me to it ;)
[01:43] <mrooney> snadge: for example, http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/avant-window-navigator, and there is a changelog link on the right
[01:44] <snadge> savvas: that bug you linked is _slightly_ different .. its talking about the content of the changelogs, moreso than them not appearing at all
[01:44] <james_w> mrooney: I believe that links to the place that update-manager uses, so you won't win anything.
[01:45] <snadge> although someone commented that changelogs should be updated several minutes before the package is released
[01:45] <snadge> this seems like more a bug in the packaging/release process
[01:46] <snadge> often times though, i've checked back several hours later.. the descriptions still not there
[01:46] <mrooney> james_w: you are correct I believe, I was attempting to address snadge's issue of not being able to check the logs after the package is installed
[01:46] <savvas> snadge: hm.. you're right
[01:46] <savvas> grrr.. I should've made that bug report at the time
[01:46] <james_w> mrooney: ah, sorry, I missed thaqt
[01:47] <snadge> im not even beginning to complain about the unhelpful changelogs.. i just figured thats a fact of life, lazy maintainers.. "new version" .. its like really!?!? i thought i was downloading it because it was an older, obsolete version
[01:48] <snadge> thats something thats not easily fixable
[01:48] <ogra> cjwatson gave a beautiful sumary recently: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<packagename> (what will be in the arcive) ... archive.ubuntu.com (what is in the archive) .... packages.ubuntu.com (what was in the archive yesterday)
[01:49] <ogra> update-manager should just pull from launchpad ...
[01:49] <ogra> it currently puls from changelog.u.c ... which is similary outdated as packages.u.c
[01:50] <savvas> snadge: will you make a new bug report about it or?
[01:58] <snadge> savvas: do you think i should?
[01:59] <james_w> snadge: it's a well known problem, so I don't think it's necessary
[02:00] <savvas> snadge: I'll back you up definitely :)
[02:01] <snadge> that was my thoughts exactly.. ubuntu has done this for as long as i can remember.. its irritated me on numerous occasions, i finally decided to complain/discuss the issue with other users
[02:01] <snadge> and discover it annoys them too .. so everybody knows about it
[02:02] <savvas> and no-one reported it?
[02:02] <savvas> weird
[02:02] <snadge> the solution sounds simple.. get description from launchpad instead of changelog
[02:02] <snadge> whomever maintains the update manager should be made aware of it
[02:02] <ogra> write a patch ;)
[02:02] <ogra> he is, be sure :)
[02:03] <savvas> hm..
[02:03] <snadge> well surely he would be in a better position to write this patch
[02:03] <snadge> or does he just compile it.. not actually do anything or maintain anything ;)
[02:03] <ogra> if he wouldnt have a million duties
[02:03] <savvas> I'll take a peek at the code
[02:03] <snadge> ok sure, my rudeness.. its low priority
[02:03] <snadge> since it still technically works.. as opposed to the many broken things that require fixing first
[02:04] <ogra> synaptic and most if not all of our packaging GUI tools are all written by the same guy
[02:04] <ogra> alongside he is the apt maintainer
[02:04] <savvas> I think it's medium/high priority, it affects a lot of people
[02:04] <snadge> he has his work cut out for him
[02:04] <snadge> savvas: yeah but it doesnt prevent you from being able to do anything.. hence technically, its low priority
[02:04] <savvas> but some might see it as feature implementation :\
[02:05] <savvas> it prevents you from applying it :P
[02:05] <ogra> its a cosmetic issue
[02:05] <savvas> just kidding :)
[02:06] <ogra> if you wait long enough before applying teh updates it will even fix itself
[02:06] <savvas> well I was talking from a security and easier ability point of view :)
[02:06] <Hobbsee> ogra: update-manager should *not* just pull them from launchpad, as that requires screen scraping.
[02:06] <ogra> (as soon as changelogs.u.c is updated)
[02:07] <snadge> Hobbsee: whats worse.. no description, or that?
[02:07] <savvas> ogra: ah.. you're talking about the unattended-upgrades package right?
[02:07] <ogra> Hobbsee, yeah probably not the best to get 10 million hits on the changelog entry for each update there
[02:07] <Hobbsee> snadge: it requires updating every time the LP guys decide to change the UI.  which is every one or two months.
[02:08] <snadge> also a question regarding USN .. do these link to existing security notices?
[02:08] <Hobbsee> ogra: i'd not even thought of that - i'd more thought of the number of SRU's required in all distros, and amount of recoding, just due to launchpad churn.
[02:08] <ogra> savvas, no, update-manager will update the changelogs everytime you open it
[02:08] <snadge> eg.. the recent bind problem.. does this just affect ubuntu, or other distributions as well? the USN is not specific with regards to this
[02:08] <ogra> fi you refrain from applying updates because there are no changelogs and wait a bit you will notice that they magically appear at some point
[02:08] <snadge> i happen to maintain a number of different linux systems.. including opensuse.. and noticed for example, the recent openssl problems.. opensuse havn't done anything about it, but im presuming it affects them too
[02:09] <Hobbsee> but changelogs updating faster would be nice.
[02:09] <snadge> i've waited many many hours before.. even over a day
[02:09] <Hobbsee> maybe they should be updated at teh end of each publisher run, or something.
[02:09] <snadge> and eventually just given up and installed the updates without description
[02:09] <ogra> snadge, it doesnt affect suse
[02:09] <snadge> ogra: which one.. bind or openssl?
[02:09] <ogra> it was a bug debian introduced in their packaging
[02:09] <ogra> ssl
[02:09] <Hobbsee> ogra: do you know what updates changelogs.ubuntu.com, btw?
[02:09] <snadge> theres two openssl bugs.. the debian one
[02:10] <snadge> and a generic one which isnt as critical, but can lead to denial of service
[02:10] <ogra> Hobbsee, nope, i bet a script from mvo :)
[02:10] <Hobbsee> ogra: hmm
[02:10] <snadge> im a tool, i completely missed the CVE reference
[02:11] <snadge> in the USN ;)
[02:11] <savvas> ?
[02:11] <savvas> I gave you a link about usn
[02:12] <savvas> snadge: you might also want to subscribe to https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-security-announce
[02:13] <savvas> that's how i get my info at least
[02:13] <snadge> yeah this recent bind problem, affects practically every platform
[02:13] <snadge> nearly 2 pages of systems affected
[02:14] <snadge> ahh wait they're listed as unknown and not vulnerable some of them
[02:14] <savvas> Hobbsee: I finally found out what the problem was with bug #244093 and made my first debdiff :)
[02:15] <Hobbsee> savvas: oh good!
[02:16] <savvas> looked like python-apt doesn't recognize security.ubuntu.com as an official repository
[02:16] <savvas> *looks
[02:27] <savvas> hm..
[02:27] <savvas> we could set up a third-party site to check for the changelogs
[02:36] <savvas> something to grab the -security Packages.bz2, then download the files and grab the changelogs: gunzip -c usr/share/doc/*/*[Cc][Hh][Aa][Nn][Gg][Ee][Ll][Oo][Gg]*.gz
[02:36] <savvas> painful heh
[02:36] <savvas> bbl
[02:37] <kees> savvas: "aptitude changelog" does that, doesn't it?
[02:37] <Hobbsee> kees: there's a bug in that, though :(
[02:37] <kees> Hobbsee: ah, dang
[02:38] <savvas> kees: yes, but the changelogs should be pushed along with the updates of the packages
[02:38] <Hobbsee> kees: but only effects few packages.
[02:38] <Hobbsee> kees: you could fix it, if you like...
[02:38] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:38]  * kees looks around
[02:38]  * kees appears to be lacking some context
[02:39] <savvas> heh
[02:39] <savvas> example:
[02:39] <savvas> $ aptitude changelog bind9
[02:39] <savvas> Ign ChangeLog of bind9
[02:39] <savvas> E: Couldn't fetch URL http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/b/bind9/bind9_9.4.2-10ubuntu0.1/changelog
[02:39] <savvas> E: Couldn't find a changelog for bind9
[02:39] <kees> oh, right because of the changelogs lag time.  yeah
[02:40] <savvas> there should be a script that would trigger the changelog to update
[02:40] <kees> I don't think I can fix that, unless Hobbsee knows something about it
[02:40] <kees> well, I think there is, but it's slow
[02:41]  * Hobbsee is looking for it
[02:41] <savvas> can I take a peek?
[02:41] <Hobbsee> ouch, these apt bugs could do with a triage...
[02:42] <snadge> put a script on the server that detects a 404 for a changelog
[02:42] <snadge> and then randomly generates a changelog using a history database of changelogs.. and mashing them together
[02:42] <snadge> ;)
[02:42] <kees> snadge: sure, but that's my point -- I don't have access to that server.  :)
[02:43] <Hobbsee> kees: fix https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptitude/+bug/139791 for me? :)
[02:43] <savvas> snadge: that wouldn't be good, i.e. if someone visited: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/b/bind9/bind9_100000.100.1-111111111ubuntu1110.1/changelog
[02:44] <savvas> the server could be easily flooded with unnecessary checks
[02:45] <Hobbsee> when did that bind9 hit the archives, i wonder...
[02:45] <kees> Hobbsee: LP hates me today.  when that bug actually loads, I'll look at it.  :)
[02:45] <snadge> yeah i was joking.. theres only really two solutions, enforce the changelogs are uploaded with the packages at release time
[02:45] <kees> Hobbsee: IIRC, about 6 hours ago
[02:45] <snadge> or, get the changelogs for ubuntu-update manager from elsewhere
[02:45] <snadge> i think really the first solution is the only real fix
[02:46]  * Hobbsee pokes around
[02:46] <savvas> does anyone have access to changelog? I'd really like to take a look at that script that pokes the server to update the changelog :p
[02:46] <snadge> or perhaps it could have a fallback.. eg, check for changelog.. if its not there, produce a more useful error message.. or fetch it from an official changelog spot, rather than a mirror etc
[02:46] <savvas> *changelog.ubuntu.com
[02:47] <Hobbsee> kees: you'd have access to that, no?
[02:47] <snadge> in any case.. im installing the bind updates
[02:52]  * Hobbsee wonders why it just doesn't pull it from intrepid-changes ro something.
[02:53] <kees> Hobbsee: if I do have access to changeslogs.u.c, I don't know about it.  :P  I've asked people that are currently asleep about it.
[02:53] <kees> it's been on my TODO list for a while.  :P
[02:53] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:53] <Hobbsee> kees: so, fix my bug in the meantime :D
[02:53] <kees> heh
[02:53] <kees> I've never looked at aptitude source before.  ;)
[02:55] <Hobbsee> good time to start, then.
[02:55] <Hobbsee> do you understand the bug?
[02:56] <kees> Yeah, I understand the issue.  but plumbing that knowledge into aptitude isn't high on my priority list.  ;)
[02:57] <Hobbsee> awww
[02:57] <Hobbsee> you're no fun..
[02:57] <kees> hehe
[02:57] <Hobbsee> kees: i don't suppose you know who gets poked about mirrors?
[02:58] <Hobbsee> ubuntu-mirror-admins or so?
[02:58] <kees> I think that works, yes.
[02:59] <pwnguin> this isn't good; firefox is segfaulting on my blog =(
[03:00] <kees> pwnguin: at least it's reproducible.  :)
[03:00] <snadge> heh.. im bugging the suse guys about the recent dns poisoning cert
[03:00] <kees> snadge: they'll have something soon.  All the vendors are aware of it.
[03:00] <snadge> and the only reaction i got was "yawn, yet another bug in a flawed application"
[03:00] <snadge> hehe
[03:01] <pwnguin> kees: but thankfully, the desire to make every application extendible means its that much harder to figure out where to place the blame
[03:01] <pwnguin> is it flash? adblock? livejournal crazy scripts?
[03:01] <kees> pwnguin: yeah, totally.
[03:02] <snadge> ubuntu has been really quick on the security updates lately.. i'd like to congratulate the effort :)
[03:02] <pwnguin> kees: ive also been able to duplicate crashes in intrepid with gmail
[03:02] <snadge> even if you dont always know what they're about because of the above discussed changelog problem ;)
[03:03] <kees> snadge: thanks.  we try.  :)
[03:03] <snadge> most people dont read them anyway hehe
[03:03] <pwnguin>  Gtk:ERROR:(/build/buildd/gtk+2.0-2.12.9/gtk/gtkplug.c:182):gtk_plug_set_is_child: assertion failed: (!GTK_WIDGET (plug)->parent)
[03:03] <snadge> "huh important update? *click* wheee!! wobbly windows"
[03:05] <Hobbsee> 5-a-day broke?  bzr broke?
[03:07] <savvas> Hobbsee: shouldn't that aptitude bug be reported to the ubuntu-website project too?
[03:08] <Hobbsee> savvas: why?
[03:08] <savvas> isn't it changelog.ubuntu.com 's fault? :P
[03:09] <snadge> for being slow yeah
[03:09] <snadge> changelog should receive some kind of priority update as soon as the package is released
[03:09] <snadge> rather than rely on the maintainer to update the changelog minutes prior to release
[03:28] <JoshuaP0x> can someone give me a hand?
[03:33] <saivann> JoshuaP0x : Hello
[03:33] <JoshuaP0x> hi
[03:33] <JoshuaP0x> I'm having trouble loading my graphics drivers
[03:33] <JoshuaP0x> mind giving me a hand?
[03:34] <saivann> JoshuaP0x : np, but first, help concerning ubuntu should be discussed in #ubuntu ;)
[03:38] <Hobbsee> and asking questions i n one place, not many, would be appreciated
[03:40] <JoshuaP0x> rgr
[03:40] <JoshuaP0x> sorry
[04:46] <saivann> Hobbsee : brainstorm.ubuntu.com is down, do you know who's in charge of the ubuntu websites?
[04:47] <Hobbsee> saivann: news2000, iirc.
[04:48] <saivann> Hobbsee : I don't see them anywhere when I whois them.. looks bad
[04:48] <Hobbsee> how much else is down?
[04:49] <saivann> Hobbsee : While trying to retrieve the URL: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/4459/
[04:49] <saivann> The following error was encountered:
[04:49] <saivann>     * Read Error
[04:49] <saivann> The system returned:
[04:49] <saivann>     (104) Connection reset by peer
[04:49] <saivann> Connection to kumquat.canonical.com Failed
[04:49] <saivann> Hobbsee : timeout everywhere
[04:50] <Hobbsee> kumquat's up, i wonder what's fallen over
[04:50] <saivann> Hobbsee : I don't have more information on this, or any access to the website
[04:51] <saivann> Hobbsee : Is there kind of canonical channel for such problems?
[04:51] <bdmurray> I think there is #ubuntu-is
[04:52] <saivann> mmh, emtpy
[04:52] <saivann> empty*
[04:52] <Hobbsee> #canonical-sysadmins
[04:52] <Hobbsee> might not have a final s
[04:55] <saivann> Hobbsee : Thanks, this channel does not seem public, I was not able to find it
[04:56] <bdmurray> saivann: it's #canonical-sysadmin
[04:56] <saivann> dbmurray : Yeah thanks, I got it and already sent a message in the channel and at their email address
[05:47] <snadge> tea or coffee?
[05:47] <snadge> god im faced with some difficult decisions in this job ;)
[05:51] <savvas> tea calms you down, coffee perks you up :p
[05:57] <snadge> yeah but as always theres complications.. the coffee pot goes on in the morning, its a small place.. so we go through one pot per day
[05:58] <snadge> which leaves only really instant to drink in the afternoon/evening
[05:58] <snadge> or i could do a plunger coffee.. but that smacks of effort ;)
[05:59] <RAOF> If you're too lazy to do a plunger coffee...
[05:59] <RAOF> you're... um... really lazy.  So lazy as to cause me to be unable to find an appropriate simile!
[06:00] <snadge> honestly.. i've never actually done a plunger coffee in my life
[06:01] <snadge> i've watched people do it on a handful of occasions
[06:01] <snadge> its not terribly difficult, i just forget the proportions etc
[06:01] <snadge> you've inspired me RAOF ;)
[06:01] <RAOF> One per person + one for the pot.
[06:02] <RAOF> Just like tea :)
[06:02] <RAOF> Except with tablespoons, I think.
[06:02] <snadge> well we have teabags.. *cough*
[06:02] <savvas> always use a full teaspoon
[06:02] <snadge> sif have real tea ;)
[06:02] <savvas> you let the water boil, add the sugar, then the coffee.. let it start bubbling, and voila! :p
[06:03] <RAOF> That doesn't describe the process of any coffeemaking I've don ;)
[06:04] <RAOF> Are we thinking of the same 'plunger'? :)
[06:05] <savvas> am I supposed to grindge it too? :P
[06:05] <LaserJock> I stay away from the coffee stuff, nasty habit
[06:05] <RAOF> savvas: If there's a grinder nearby, of course.
[06:05] <savvas> hehe
[06:05] <savvas> well.. i do have one :p
[06:05] <RAOF> Mmm.  I may need to get some milk so I can make some myself.
[06:05] <LaserJock> I've managed 6 years of graduate school without coffee, though I'm quite addicted to my soda
[06:06] <savvas> LaserJock: I've read several studies that say it's good to start your afternoon heh
[06:06] <savvas> soda as in sparkle water or soft drinks?
[06:06] <RAOF> LaserJock: Clearly not a mathematician :).  You know the Erdös quote...
[06:07] <LaserJock> hmm, though maybe it wouldn't be taking me 6 years to get my PhD if I *had* done coffee
[06:07] <LaserJock> savvas: soft drinks
[06:07] <LaserJock> I don't know why there are so many words for that stuff
[06:07] <savvas> soft drinks are even nastier compared to coffee.. but anything that exceeds the amount of normal is bad
[06:07] <LaserJock> "coffee" is pretty universal but there's like 5 different ways to say "soda" in the US alone
[06:07] <RAOF> It's taboo, don't'cha'know.
[06:08] <RAOF> People furtively trading for aluminium cans of high-fructose corn syurp...
[06:09] <LaserJock> at least it tastes good ...
[06:09] <savvas> eh fructose.. fructose is transformed to glucose anyway :P
[06:12] <RAOF> And it's all fed into krebs, anyway :)
[06:12] <RAOF> * Not actually true.
[06:14] <savvas> it's all interconnected :)
[06:14] <RAOF> All _eventually_ fed into krebs :)
[06:14] <savvas> correct :P
[06:15] <RAOF> Hm.  Unless you get freak-fossilised, compressed for a couple of hundred million years or so, and then dredged up as petroleum.
[06:15] <savvas> or stuffed up as glycogen and fat tissue :P
[06:15]  * savvas starts counting ubottu 's BMI
[06:15] <RAOF> Well, that gets fed into krebs eventually.  Either your body, or someone else's :)
[06:15] <Hobbsee> snadge: you are deluded, i'm afraid.  This is ubuntu here.  Therefore, the only possible answer to the question is.... ?
[06:16] <Hobbsee> hint: it's not tea.  it's also not coffee, although a fair few people drink that in the morning.
[06:16] <savvas> moo
[06:16] <savvas> ;)
[06:17] <Hobbsee> no, not moo.
[06:17] <savvas> bummer, I always have a glass of milk in the morning, and coffee around 17:00
[06:17] <Hobbsee> if you're asking in ubuntuland, the answer is always BEER, or some other alcoholic beverage.
[06:17] <savvas> eh that's reserved for beerfest
[06:18] <savvas> belgrade beerfest in august :)
[06:18] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: yeah, cause we're all alcoholics?
[06:18] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: not all.  most, probably.
[06:18] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: or social drinkers.
[06:18] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: think of UDS?
[06:19] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: I remember
[06:19] <LaserJock> though I don't know that everybody did ;-)
[06:19] <LaserJock> s/did/does/
[06:20] <Hobbsee> oh, sure.  hence, the most.
[06:20]  * Hobbsee doesn't drink, for oen
[06:20] <LaserJock> neither do I
[06:20] <LaserJock> but they did have some nice champagne the last day of UDS Paris
[06:21] <LaserJock> I was just coming down with my UDS-cold-of-DOOM by then
[06:21] <Hobbsee> oh, twitch.
[06:21]  * Hobbsee remembers having some of that, too.
[06:22] <Hobbsee> wait, paris.
[06:22] <LaserJock> UDS Sevilla I managed much better
[06:22] <Hobbsee> heh
[06:22] <LaserJock> I'd blame the Paris bug to the weird food
[06:22] <LaserJock> and perhaps being my first time outside the US
[06:23] <LaserJock> you know, gotta get acllimated to all the European bugs
[06:26] <savvas> and the patent-free world? :p
[06:27] <LaserJock> didn't have a chance for that unfortunately
[06:28] <LaserJock> man, I felt like kissing the ground after landing back in US soil that first time though
[06:28] <LaserJock> for all it's faults/issues, it's still home :-)
[06:29] <snadge> i cant really drink beer at work ;)
[06:30] <bliZZardz> guess we should make Pisco as the Official U drink ..than beer ;)
[06:32] <LaserJock> I suppose Mark could buy a brewery ....
[06:48] <snadge> ubuntu and beer would have to be the two best things in the world ;)
[07:48] <coder2000> anyone active?
[07:56] <Iulian> Uhm, yea, but asleep.
[08:00] <coder2000> just wondering if anyone was available to discuss the 2.6.26 kernel panic in virtual machines.
[08:15] <snadge> wow.. its amazing how much easier a remote install is with a remote access console ;)
[08:15] <snadge> almost takes the fun out of it
[08:52] <mouz> I found a bug, filed it, and fixed it myself using https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix. That page tells me to set the status to 'Confirmed'. However: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status says not to confirm a bug I filed myself (which seems logical to me). Should one of these pages be changed?
[10:28] <vhaarr> hey, with the latest xorg updates, gnome-panel and nautilus seems to segfault on startup in libgdk-x11.so or somesuch - anyone know if there's a way to get it working? I already asked in #ubuntu+1, but wasn't sure if someone here might want the apport crash logs.
[14:40] <hggdh> mouz, usually one should not confirm one's own bug -- this gives a chance for somebody else to confirm it without bias
[14:43] <hggdh> mouz, what is the bug number?
[14:44] <hggdh> and, BTW, I do not think the pages need correction -- the HotToFix does not really tell you to open the bug, it tells you how to work on fixing it. It happens you are fixing your own bug
[15:05] <Hew> Hey guys. What's the deal with Fix Committed for Ubuntu packages? I've been told before that it can be used where the fix is applied upstream, but this was just reverted in bug #226176. What should be the correct status? Fix Committed, Triaged, or something else?
[15:06] <bddebian> Boo
[15:06]  * Hew jumps
[15:07] <james_w> Hew: the desktop team use Fix Commited for that, but the guidelines say that it shouldn't, so there is some confusion.
[15:08] <Hew> I don't like confusion :-(
[15:10] <Hew> yea, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status seems to say it's only when it's been uploaded. Should this be Triaged then? Seems like a strange state for it though
[15:17] <savvas> can someone take a look at/confirm bug #239952
[15:17] <mouz> hggdh: it is bug 246106. I set it to 'Confirmed' myself, but I understand that in general it would be better if someone else would confirm. However HowToFix says to do so. From that I was thinking that maybe my fix will not be seen if I would not do that.
[15:18] <mouz> So my question is now: should I in this case?
[15:20] <hggdh> mouz, please hold, looking at it now
[15:22] <hggdh> mouz, did you check debian for a matching bug?
[15:22] <mouz> no
[15:23] <mouz> checked debian for the existance of revu-tools though...
[15:24] <hggdh> it might be a good idea to verify this has been opened on debian BTS, and link upstream if needed
[15:24] <mouz> hggdh: revu-tools is not in debian
[15:24] <mouz> hggdh: (as it seems to me)
[15:27] <hggdh> mouz, indeed... my fault. I read 'revu-tools', and undertood 'lintian'. I guess I am missing some coffee
[15:27] <hggdh> I will set as triaged
[15:28]  * mouz hands over a cup of coffee to hggdh
[15:28] <mouz> thanks
[15:29] <savvas> triaged means someone will take care of it or someone is taking care of it?
[15:29] <Hew> savvas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status
[15:30] <mouz> savvas: my understanding is it means 'someone can start taking care of it now' (but I'm new to this too)
[15:30] <savvas> ah.. so someone *can* take care of it
[15:30] <savvas> :p
[15:30] <Hew> savvas: Triaged means there is enough detail for a developer to start work. In the case of bug #239952, we need to find what exactly it doesn't like about the link
[15:31] <Hew> eg. if there are other links we can reproduce the issue on, or if other text files do not produce the issue, etc
[15:31] <Hew> imo. Triaged means "very confirmed" :P
[15:32] <hggdh> mouz, done. You need to seek a sponsor now
[15:33] <hggdh> 'triaged' means somebody from bugcontrol agreed that all a triager could do has been done, and enough data is available for the maintainer/developer to work on the bug
[15:34] <mouz> hggdh: i subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors. should i in addition ask in #ubuntu-motu?
[15:34] <hggdh> mouz might ping them there, yes
[15:36] <savvas> hew it does the same with other forums, i.e. http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/ubuntu-help/60569-installing-wireless-client-wusb11v4-2.html
[15:36] <hggdh> mouz, BTW -- thank you for your help. We appreciate it.
[15:38] <mouz> anything to make lintian happy :)
[15:47] <savvas> sponsor is like a mentor for bug patches?
[15:47] <savvas> (reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess)
[15:49] <hggdh> Hew, on your case the 'fix committed' was reverted because it applies to a version of the package we do not yet deploy...
[15:49] <savvas> so.. if I provide a possible fix with a debdiff for a bug, I always subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors or ubuntu-main-sponsors ?
[15:51] <hggdh> savvas, you should not really need to subscribe any group; I actually overloaded 'sponsor' here
[15:51] <Hew> hggdh: yea, someone here told me before that fix committed could be used if the fix was upstream. confirmed/triaged just didn't seem right, but I now recognise that it is. Thanks.
[15:52] <savvas> hggdh: ok
[15:52] <hggdh> savvas, once you add a patch to a bug (and mark it as so), pinging someone in #ubuntu-devel  or #kubuntu-devel (if in main) or #ubuntu-motu should be enough
[15:53] <Hew> savvas: I'm no html expert, but there's something that's making it display the save dialog. I've just confirmed what I was remembering, that text files normally just open within firefox as text. I'm not sure why it's displaying the dialog here.
[15:53] <savvas> ah cool
[15:53] <hggdh> sponsorship is more related to a new (or changed) package that you want included
[15:53] <savvas> thanks!
[15:54] <hggdh> welcome
[15:54] <james_w> hggdh: that's not really true
[15:54] <james_w> hggdh: sponsorship is for bugfixes etc. as well. Asking in -devel or -motu can work, but subscribing the sponsors means someone will get to it eventually.
[15:54] <hggdh> james_w, we better fix the wiki, then
[15:55] <james_w> (and asking too much in there puts some people off sponsoring the fix)
[15:55] <hggdh> then we really should update the wiki
[15:55] <savvas> Hew: maybe it's misinterpreting the attachment.php (?)
[15:56] <savvas> on the other hand.. the linuxforums link is .txt
[15:56] <hggdh> james_w, what are all the lists that deal with sponsoring patches?
[15:56] <james_w> hggdh: sure, can you point out where you think it is not correct?
[15:56] <hggdh> james_w, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix#bottom
[15:56] <Hew> savvas: yea, I saw. I can't work it out from the source. I'm sure a web page designer would know immediately haha
[15:57] <Hew> savvas: either way, I don't think that's the core of the problem. I'll update the bug
[15:58] <james_w> hggdh: ah, I see. That kind of makes sense.
[15:59] <hggdh> james_w, yes, this is the point... we have a cross-channel somewhere, and this will only make helpers confused (like I myself got)
[15:59] <james_w> there's a discrepancy between debdiffs and patches
[16:00] <james_w> hggdh: indeed. I've been thinking about starting a discussion about this, perhaps having a -sponsors-like team for patches to help turn them in to debdiffs.
[16:01] <hggdh> james_w, good idea... we probably could get more done this way
[16:02] <mouz> i did not get the distinction debdiffs <-> patches until now. may i say a debdiff is a specific kind of patch? patch is more generic?
[16:03] <hggdh> and, of course, although the page talks about patches, it sort of suggests a debdiff (ot perhaps to me, only)
[16:06] <hggdh> mouz, patch is a direct change to file; debdiff is a change to the package
[16:06] <mouz> ah yes
[16:06] <james_w> mouz: a debdiff is a representation of the change between to two package versions
[16:07] <james_w> mouz: if you have a patch then it takes a little more work to turn it in to a debdiff. Not everyone wants to do it as it involves knowing about packaging, rather than just patching software.
[16:10] <mouz> ok. so the HowToFix page is certainly about debdiffs.
[17:05] <bdmurray> persia: ping
[17:10] <joumetal> I am going to confirm bug 246505. Is any other information needed?
[17:12] <bdmurray> adding a bug watch for the upstream bug would be good
[17:16] <joumetal> there is already remote bug watch but it looks different than it used to.
[17:17] <bdmurray> joumetal: a remote bug watch would be in the affects table and I don't see one
[17:20] <joumetal> ok now it is in affects table :)
[17:21] <bdmurray> great, thanks!
[17:27] <joumetal> Is the backtrace useful in bug 184547?
[17:27] <joumetal> epiphany crashes with very simple file.
[17:31] <savvas> um.. is there a way to see command lines firefox is trying to run?
[17:32] <joumetal> savvas: running firefox from terminal?
[17:33] <savvas> i want to see the command line firefox uses to run gedit for text/plain files, something seems wrong
[17:33] <savvas> joumetal: i have, no luck :)
[17:34] <bdmurray> maybe about:config ?
[17:37] <savvas> mmmn nope
[17:39] <Grantbow> maybe Edit...Preferences...  Applications
[17:41] <savvas> says Exec=gedit %U in /usr/share/applications/gedit.desktop
[17:42]  * savvas scratches his head
[17:45] <savvas> $ gedit file://tmp/novo\ ficheiro.txt
[17:45] <savvas> file://tmp/novo ficheiro.txt: malformed file name or URI.
[17:45] <savvas> hm.. could it be that firefox passes file:/// uri?
[17:49] <savvas> hmm no, this works $ gedit file:///tmp/ERROR.txt
[17:50] <savvas> bah i give.. bbl
[18:11] <joumetal> savvas: what is the result if you type launchpad is nice to firefox address bar?
[18:11] <savvas> it googles it joumetal
[18:12] <joumetal> ok then no ideas?
[19:11] <mouz> Could someone set bug 193109 to 'Triaged' please? Thanks :)
[19:22] <james_w> mouz: done. It's not too important to set triage if sponsors are subscribed.
[19:44] <mouz> james_w: thanks, i will keep that in mind
[20:40] <chrisccoulson> Guys, can someone help me out with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/240437
[20:41] <chrisccoulson> the reporter is saying that after using users-admin, their /etc/passwd and /etc/group files are being clobbered
[20:42]  * gnomefreak would make sure its not user error
[20:42] <chrisccoulson> I got him to run a script from the system-tools-backends source (test-backends), which gave the correct output before he ran users-admin
[20:42] <chrisccoulson> but the second time he ran it, after using users-admin, he gets "no introspection data available for method 'get' in object '/org/freedesktop/SystemToolsBackends/UsersConfig', and object is not cast to any interface at /usr/lib/perl5/Net/DBus/RemoteObject.pm line 334."
[20:43] <chrisccoulson> not sure what else to ask him to do
[20:43] <james_w> it sounds -backends/dbus related
[20:43] <james_w> I doubt it's related to the processor though, so I'd remove that from the description
[20:44] <james_w> "dbus-monitor --system" output for the operation would perhaps be useful
[20:44] <chrisccoulson> i've tried running dbus-monitor --system on my machine at home, to see what I should expect to get
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> i don't seem to see any relevant traffic though when I run users-admin
[20:45] <james_w> ah, ok
[20:45] <james_w> does it show anything relevant without --system?
[20:46] <chrisccoulson> nah, i can't see anything on system or session bus. all I see on system bus is lots of org.freedesktop.DBus.NameOwnerChanged signals
[20:47] <chrisccoulson> if we could figure out what to monitor, then it might be quite useful to work out what is going on
[21:08] <ScottK> bdmurray: I'd like to take the "Draft" lable off of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage "Special Types of Bugs".  Since it's been there, I've seen a lot less gratuitous adjustment of workflow bugs and so I'd be ready to consider it a success.  What do we need to do to do that without getting in trouble?
[21:11] <bdmurray> ScottK: Nothing that I know of.  I think removing it would be fine and would be happy to do it if you'd prefer.
[21:11] <ScottK> bdmurray: Yes.  Please do.
[21:11] <ScottK> I think it might be more palatable in some circles if it was you.
[21:49] <coder2000> for some reason in hardy my empty trash button is disabled when I have trash items
[22:18] <ScottK> bdmurray: Thanks (wiki update).
[22:19] <bdmurray> ScottK: No problem, I changed the wording of a couple of things too
[22:19] <ScottK> I saw that (I'm subscribed to the page).  I think you made it better.
[22:19] <ScottK> See you later.
[22:34] <mrooney> bdmurray: ping a ding?
[22:35] <bdmurray> mrooney: pong a long!
[22:35] <mrooney> bdmurray: :) bug 247020 looked like something that I perhaps should send your way
[22:37] <bdmurray> that sounds like a duplicate to me
[22:37] <bdmurray> the right package should really be firefox-3.0
[22:37] <mrooney> I tried search around on launchpad and google, and didn't find anything, but that doesn't mean it isn't of course
[22:51] <gnomefreak> it is a  dupe i just dont have bug numbers infront of me
[22:51] <gnomefreak> there are a few IIRC that i didnt have master numbers to
[22:51] <mrooney> gnomefreak: I wonder why I can't find it anywhere, is there a wiki page on searching for duplicates?
[22:52] <gnomefreak> also about:about is borked but thats upstream issue not ours. AFAIk asac is working on updates for ahrdy and intrepid that might include that fix
[22:52] <gnomefreak> mrooney: nope you can use what used to be called bughelper
[22:52] <gnomefreak> or old fasion search or wait until tomorrow and ping me and ill find it when i open email
[22:53] <gnomefreak> fashion
[22:53] <bdmurray> you might also try http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/search.html
[22:53] <bdmurray> you can search just bugs there or irc channels too
[22:53] <gnomefreak> ok gone for tonight good luck (psst when asac shows up he might have them handy but he should be gone for the day maybe even sleeping by now
[22:54] <gnomefreak> night ;)
[22:58] <asac> its a dupe. i think its xulrunner-1.0'9
[23:08] <greg-g> that documentation search is pretty neat
[23:12] <bdmurray> yeah, I've been using it to find irc conversations