=== Rafik_ is now known as Rafik === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jul 12:00 UTC: Bugs for Hugs Day | 09 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU === emonkey is now known as \emonkey === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === Rafik_ is now known as Rafik === ember_ is now known as ember === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU === thekorn_ is now known as thekorn [18:00] * ogasawara waves [18:00] hey [18:00] hello [18:00] * dholbach hugs the QA folks :) === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: QA Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU [18:00] hi [18:00] * heno hugs dholbach [18:00] * davmor2 fights off dholbach's hugs [18:01] davmor2: that bad? :) [18:01] ;) [18:01] ROCK ON everybody - see you tomorrow [18:01] tomorrow? [18:01] sbeattie, ping? [18:02] heno pong [18:02] sbeattie: hello :) [18:02] we're just missing ara [18:03] I'm not sue if pedro will make it [18:03] being at GUADEC [18:03] hey ara :) [18:03] hey [18:03] ok, let's start [18:04] #startmeeting [18:04] Meeting started at 12:05. The chair is heno. [18:04] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [18:04] [TOPIC]: Alpha 2 testing this week [18:04] New Topic: : Alpha 2 testing this week [18:04] being an early alpha testing will be light [18:05] sbeattie: do you know how far along the images are? [18:05] heno: beings as live still doesn't work I think your right :) [18:05] slangasek: ^ ? [18:05] * stgraber is sort of around [18:05] desktop images are still on the edge of being usable for alpha2; there's nothing there to be tested yet [18:05] ok, thanks [18:06] cjwatson is actively working on the ubiquity problems, and we also have to cope with the fact that recommends-by-default has made the ubuntu desktop image 80MB oversized - and kubuntu 200MB oversized :) [18:06] heh [18:06] ouch [18:06] heno: it's true :) [18:06] people should use DVDRW for testing anyway :) [18:06] saver the environment ... [18:06] *save [18:07] or usb thumb drives [18:07] yeh [18:07] +a [18:08] so we'll test alternatives and desktops if they become available [18:08] [TOPIC]: Package status prototype - feedback welcome [18:08] New Topic: : Package status prototype - feedback welcome [18:08] heno: is this for release next thursday then? [18:08] http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/pkg-stats/openoffice.org.html [18:08] LINK received: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/pkg-stats/openoffice.org.html [18:09] davmor2: this thursday I think [18:09] might run out of testing time then :/ [18:09] :-/ [18:10] davmor2: right, but we should just boot test them all [18:10] and if there are no live CDs that makes it easier [18:10] I tried a live today it failed dismally [18:11] but are the images already available? [18:11] hi! is it just me or do the alpha 2 images miss on the iso testing tracker? (are they even supposed to appear there?) [18:11] I'm guessing we'll release alpha 2 without lives [18:12] (sorry if you discussed that earlier, I missed the start) [18:12] the alternates should be posted [18:12] slangasek: ^ agree? [18:12] I think so, yes [18:13] the charts look great by the way. Will they be automated? [18:13] I see live cds on cdimages, I suspect they just don't work. [18:13] sbeattie: can you update the tracker after the meeting? [18:13] sbeattie: let me know if you need a hand [18:13] heno: yes, will do, can you action it? [18:13] fwiw, nvidia-glx-new is uninstallable on the alternates because of the X changes, so that's a bug to highlight for testers I think [18:13] Leann's, pkg-stats pages are awesome! [18:14] [ACTION]: sbeattie to update iso tracker for alpha 2 [18:14] ACTION received: : sbeattie to update iso tracker for alpha 2 [18:14] ogasawara: great work! [18:14] indeed! [18:14] slangasek: noted [18:14] everyone check http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/pkg-stats/openoffice.org.html [18:15] the one thing that struck me though [18:15] bdmurray made the graphs [18:15] was that it is just bug "stuff" [18:15] wereas I'm sure developers/bug workers would probably like to see some information on the package itself [18:15] yup, looks cool. (though I thought we already had that kind of statistics, but I can't remember where...) [18:16] afflux: they aren't as detailed as this [18:16] LaserJock: right, we'd love to get suggestions for that [18:16] I see [18:17] heno: at least links to Ubuntu/Debian changelogs, Ubuntu/Debian versions, links to package LP page and Debian PTS/BTS pages [18:17] Development and Testing: should be a section separate from Bugs Info and have more items [18:18] let's create https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/PackageStatusPages/Feedback and add such items there [18:18] that'd be great. I'll try to knock out as many items as I can before the sprint next week [18:19] how much of that overlaps with the LP package pages though? [18:19] heno: very little [18:19] cool, we would like to add features not already on LP [18:19] some of the info you can get from the LP page, but you have to dig around [18:19] and possibly later get them implemented there [18:19] heno: if the is an overlap you could just link to the lp page for the package [18:19] but for sure LP doesn't have any of the Debian info [18:20] ok [18:20] Isn't some of this also aggregation of multiple packages in LP? e.g. "gnome" and "kde" will cover quite a few, no? [18:20] yeah, this page should very much be tailored fot the audience: Ubuntu QA and dev [18:21] ogasawara: will you start that page and collect the ideas? [18:21] heno: yup [18:21] do we want breakdowns by release? [18:21] sbeattie: yeah, both types of pages would be useful [18:21] LaserJock: can you look over hat afterwards and add you thoughts? [18:21] heno: sure [18:22] sbeattie: I'd like to have the option of historical look-back later too [18:22] see the weekly graphs from 6 months ago, say [18:22] sbeattie: are you thinking more of Hardy vs. Intrepid? [18:23] so we can follow the LTS point releases, say? [18:23] yes, that too. historical comparisons are useful as well. [18:24] well, it would be nice to see if a particular releast/version is really getting a lot of bugs [18:25] if anyone has further feedback please add it to the wiki [18:25] [TOPIC]: Next week's meeting - suggestion: an in person meeting at the London sprint combined phone or skype for those who are not there at 14.00 UTC [18:25] New Topic: : Next week's meeting - suggestion: an in person meeting at the London sprint combined phone or skype for those who are not there at 14.00 UTC [18:26] +1 [18:27] 14.00 UTC might allow some AU people to attend [18:27] we'll have both a skype box with decent sound and a conference phone in the room [18:27] LaserJock: will that be difficult for you? [18:27] * stgraber is afk now [18:27] you are US west coast, right? [18:28] not impossible for sure [18:28] heno: I have the skype system all set here, and there is a teleconference install going on in the main conf room here as well [18:28] I think that's 7am local [18:28] cgregan: excellent! [18:28] how many people can be joined on a skype conference? [18:29] LaserJock: would 1400 UTC also let Persia attend? [18:29] if we use that we don't need to distribute phone umbers and conf codes [18:29] sbeattie: perhaps so [18:29] persia will be in Lexington [18:29] I can't say for sure [18:29] ah [18:30] I assume [18:30] heno: just realized that. [18:30] heno: I don't know. Our test yesterday was my first skype experience [18:30] as will cgregan and ogasawara [18:30] I'm sure google will tell us [18:30] cgregan: noob ;) [18:31] why not use mumble, it is opensource :P [18:31] looks like 5 [18:31] * cgregan adds a dollar to his "shrine to the internet" [18:31] use ekiga it on the desktop already :) [18:31] or openwengo? [18:31] davmor2: :-) [18:31] IIRC skype has some limitation about 5-8 people in one conference call [18:31] I had issues with ekiga [18:32] * afflux too [18:32] but perhaps that was just me [18:33] davmor2 and I have used audio only with success [18:34] * persia peers out from an insomaniacal state and wonders which 14:00 [18:34] ekiga crashes on account setup for me :( [18:34] :) It was quite a good connection too :) [18:34] persia: UTC during the sprint week [18:34] cgregan: can we go through testing that between us? [18:35] heno: sure [18:35] if it works we'll use ekiga, if not phone [18:35] Wednesday? [18:35] persia: yes [18:36] heno: so that 15:00 uk time [18:36] Ah. I've a standing meeting that day and time, and an additional conflict next week from 13:00 - 18:00 or so. [18:36] davmor2: right [18:36] okay [18:37] persia: that time block will be tough to work around for us [18:37] heno: No worries. I'll read the minutes. [18:37] but we'll be available the whole week by phone/skype [18:38] ok, let's go with that time then [18:38] we'll monitor IRC as well [18:38] [TOPIC]: Ubuntu QA team update/proposal (LaserJock) [18:38] New Topic: : Ubuntu QA team update/proposal (LaserJock) [18:38] ok, so a few things [18:39] I wrote up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/UbuntuQA [18:39] which is hopefully a more thorough presentation of what I'm doing [18:39] cool, thanks [18:39] I got to go now I'll catch up after [18:39] and so far the team has 7 members (https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa/+members) [18:40] and 4 bzr branches represting 4 different projects [18:40] I've been talking with lots of people [18:41] and trying to look at some QA needs around the community [18:42] so I think we're off to a good start [18:42] are there any questions about the wiki page? [18:42] what is a "relevant QA team"? [18:43] bugsquad, ubuntu-testing, ubuntu-dev, etc. [18:45] so I'd like to start pushing people towards the mailing list and doing some announcement/PR soon [18:46] hm, i have to reboot, brb [18:46] LaserJock: nice, I think I'm mostly sold. [18:47] I'm sure there could be some refining around specifics, but hopefully it's good enough to get going [18:47] I would like to push a little bit on how we credit/reward people doing various elements of QA work. [18:47] ... sorry about that [18:47] heno: np [18:47] sbeattie: yeah, that's something I think we'll have to work on some [18:48] I don't have any particularlly elegant propsals for that other than recognizing work that people are doing [18:48] I don't particularly have any good ideas (other than I want to be a level 10 QA Warlock) [18:48] having a team that's seeing what's going on around the QA universe, IMO, lends itself more to giving each other credit [18:49] for instance, ogasawara's work on that bug page is amazing [18:49] and I might not have noticed that if I hadn't been talking with her already and comming to the meeting, etc. [18:51] Sure, I think it's great, too, but generating webpages like is more interesting work than some of the grunt work the various QA teams do. [18:51] it might be interesting to ask existing volunteer triagers about what motivates them, and then seek ways to maximize that (or minimize inhibitors) [18:52] bryce: good idea [18:52] bryce: yeah, totally [18:52] the people who have recently stepped up to organise bug days would be good candidates here [18:53] yes [18:53] LaserJock: i appreciate that you have fleshed out the non-dev aspects a bit more [18:53] and we can probably extend that further still [18:53] heno: yeah, I'm sorry that that came out too much last time. I'm come from a dev background and I'm afraid it showed [18:54] heno: yeah [18:54] LaserJock: how do you see this team participating in the upcoming global bug jam for example [18:55] heno: well, hopefully that would be something that the Ubuntu QA would help organize and participate in [18:55] that has a triage focus, but we can also benefit from dev involvement [18:55] heno: LoCo maryland has asked me to do a talk on QA process for the Jam. [18:56] perhaps generating useful documentation and task-lists if needed [18:56] We could do something like that but in the wiki or elsewhere...for a larger audience [18:57] LaserJock: where would you like feedback on that writeup, in a comments section on the page, on an ML thread? [18:57] perhaps a thread on ubuntu-qa would be good, to get broader discussion [18:57] ok, will you post and we can comment? [18:58] and we'll talk about it at next week's meeting [18:58] ok [18:58] so I'm basically going to move forward with this this week [18:58] perhaps we should propose some topics for that btw [18:58] and we can refine as we go [18:59] but I think we have consensus that we should move forward [18:59] LaserJock: 'move forward' means announce more broadly, invite people to join, etc? [18:59] yes [19:00] I think the only real possible sticking point is the LP team name, and I'm confident that I/we can handle that [19:00] there was actually an ubuntu-qa name before [19:00] which was in effect bug-control [19:01] and we changed the name to reduce confusion [19:01] yep [19:01] but what we are talking about now fits the name better [19:01] I agree [19:02] with the more inclusive view, I'm happy with the LP name [19:02] I'm up for trolling around the wiki and making appropriate changes [19:02] for non-trivial ones I'd email ubuntu-qa for discussion to make sure [19:02] we should merge the LP team with the existing wiki/IRC/ML based team though [19:03] I basically agree [19:03] heno: which irc channel? [19:03] so we should stick to this meeting time, use the ML [19:03] I'm working on the IRC channel right now [19:03] is there already a #ubuntu-qa ?? [19:03] and probably set up #ubuntu-qa [19:03] LaserJock: ok [19:03] apparently #ubuntu-qa is for the Qatar LoCo team [19:04] the IRC ops suggested #ubuntu-quality for lack of a better name [19:04] nand: I'm also wondering if it's time to set up #ubuntu-brainstorm ? [19:04] any other suggestions? [19:04] LaserJock: we all have to move to Qatar? [19:04] sbeattie: hehe, yeah [19:04] :D [19:05] and apparently anything #ubuntu-qa-* is owned by them as well [19:05] so we can't do #ubuntu-qa-team or such [19:05] as it doesn't fit very well in #ubuntu-testing anymore [19:06] -quality sounds fine [19:06] it's not quite a clear, IMO, but I think it's probably the best we can do [19:07] I guess we could always ask Qatar to rename itself :-) [19:07] qc? [19:07] I wonder how active that chan is? [19:07] heno: it's not at all [19:08] there wasn't anybody in there when I went in [19:08] bdmurray: i prefer -quality than -qc [19:08] I think the meaning of QA is more generally known than QC [19:08] I'm not sure that people would know what ubuntu-qc was [19:09] LaserJock: i agree [19:09] Is there a standard for "distro-group" or could it be qa-ubuntu? qa-canonical? [19:09] cgregan: well, I think generally they need to be *buntu-* [19:09] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/ChannelNaming [19:10] is there even a Qatar team? The ubuntu-qa ML is us [19:10] "What's in a name? That which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet." [19:10] heno: it apparently doesn't matter if the team exists or is active. It's a blocked namespace [19:11] -qat? where t is for team? [19:11] cgregan: I particularly think we don't want *canonical*, as we want to make sure that it's clear that the intent is for this effort to not be exclusive to canonical employees. [19:11] I think #ubuntu-quality is probably our best bet [19:11] That's also a great scrabble word [19:11] sbeattie: I know...just an example of layout not of content [19:11] Ubuntu Qatar could just be very interested in quality and happen to not live in Qatar [19:12] lol [19:12] let's go with #ubuntu-quality but set the topic in #ubuntu-qa to make accidental visitors aware of that [19:13] if a Qatar team turns up and becomes active they can change the topic to something more appropriate [19:14] agreed [19:14] I'll set it up [19:14] ok [19:14] any other topics? [19:16] ok, let's wrap up [19:16] #endmeeting [19:16] Meeting finished at 13:17. [19:16] speak to most of you next week! [19:16] sure! [19:16] :) [19:16] thanks! [19:17] thanks, bye === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community === ember_ is now known as ember === Moot2 is now known as MootBot === asac_ is now known as asac === Keybuk is now known as Guest62599 === Keybuk_ is now known as Keybuk [23:00] hi [23:00] hi [23:00] Hi. [23:00] hello [23:00] * ogra waves === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Platform Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community [23:00] * ArneGoetje yawns [23:00] evening all [23:00] * TheMuso eats breakfast while he waits. [23:00] is there hardware support in here? my friends wireless isnt working [23:00] greetings and salutations [23:01] powitsjj: we're just getting started with a team meeting here; #ubuntu, please, or #ubuntu-kernel if necessary [23:01] thank you [23:01] morning [23:01] * asac waves [23:01] hi all [23:02] bryce,doko_: here? [23:02] heya [23:03] ok, let's start [23:03] first thing I wanted to raise was the upcoming sprint [23:03] you'll probably all appreciate me refraining from asking if you are pumped ;-) [23:04] heh [23:04] mostly, I want to make sure that everything on the 8.10 roadmap is suitably unblocked and capable of making progress for feature freeze [23:04] I have started on fleshing out a loose agenda, including some pairwork sessions on things that seem like they could benefit from that [23:05] but I'd appreciate suggestions, as we have a whole week :) [23:05] for convenience I'll paste what I've got here (also on https://wiki.canonical.com/DistroTeam/Sprints/Intrepid/London for those with suitable access) [23:05] pairwork sessions? [23:05] [bryce, this doesn't need to go in the minutes, it's just for convenience] [23:05] * Release status checkpoint across all teams (general progress on specs) [23:05] [gotcha] [23:05] * Revisit 8.04 post-mortem [23:06] * OpenJDK status call with David Herron and Dalibor Topic (Matthias, Colin, Arne?) [23:06] * Progress on TCK availability (Matthias, Colin, Mark M, Amanda) [23:06] * One-on-ones for each person transferring from desktop to platform (Colin, Scott, Michael) [23:06] * Pair-programming sessions: [23:06] * font-selector (Arne, James) [23:06] * cleanup-cruft (Lars, Michael) [23:06] * get-rid-of-python-central-and-support (Lars, Matthias) [23:06] * Ubiquity for alpha-3, if it's still broken (Evan, Colin) [23:06] * python-memory-profiling-tool (Lars, volunteers?) [23:06] * translation-statistics (Arne, Colin) [23:06] * ... [23:06] * CD sizing mini-sprint: Recommends et al (Steve, Colin, ...) [23:06] * Policy manual progress and feedback (Colin, ...) [23:07] asac: ^- does that clarify? [23:07] * liw is multipaired [23:07] i think so [23:07] asac: I wondered if you wanted to work with Jonathan on the Firefox KDE integration stuff [23:07] more a desktopy kind of thing mind you [23:07] get-rid-of-python-central-and-support scares me :( [23:08] which michael is the one in the desktop to platform bit? [23:08] vogt [23:08] ok [23:08] I think we only have one, unless I'm being remiss [23:08] wasn't sure :) [23:08] slangasek: ... [23:08] Martin is not yet one of the canonical Canonical names [23:09] slangasek, I'm scared too, but the existence of the two scares me as well, so I'm pretty much scared [23:09] I'll be paring with Robert a fair bit I imagine, if he's still standing after this week. [23:09] cjwatson: i have most information on kde available and a good upstream contact who offered to help in case i need more API support (scoll wheeler) [23:10] esp doing that during a debian freeze, sounds like a lot of divergence(?) [23:10] cjwatson: anyway, I think it makes sense to discuss the status with jonathan too [23:10] most work is now mozilla coding [23:10] calc: we can of course prepare it but not deploy, if that turns out to make most sense [23:10] * calc has no idea what that actually entails just suggesting now might not be the best timing ;-) [23:10] we've had rather a lot of bugs, and certainly a heck of a lot of complexity, from python-{central,support}, though [23:11] calc, you sound like the people who told me that I should not rewrite the Linux kernel in Python for the Debian etch release :P [23:11] liw: lol [23:12] cjwatson: I think I'm concerned that replacing the helpers with a new solution is going to take a similarly long time to shake out all the bugs [23:12] And create a big delta with Debian for that matter. [23:12] i.e., multiple release cycles [23:12] the release status checkpoint is one that I hope will be the first in a series of meetings throughout the rest of the release cycle, involving team leads and interested folks [23:12] well, I assume that doko_ can handle bridging the delta with Debian, at least for the interpreter packages themselves [23:13] slangasek, and don't forget the delta with upstream... [23:13] it's scary and risky, but it's worth exploring, imho [23:13] slangasek: ok; I have it at medium priority, so I'm happy to defer to your judgement if you'd prefer not to take the risk for intrepid [23:13] TheMuso: if it actually works the way it says in wiki, it would just involve a rebuild on the packages side, with no changes (probably won't work as smoothly in practice) [23:14] cjwatson: well, it scares me in general - if it's going to be done, now's the time to start it [23:14] but it seems like a credible option that offers the promise of being simpler and more robust than what we have now, so I'd like to explore it in advance [23:14] not, say, during the next LTS [23:14] right [23:14] TheMuso: er i mean for the python coded packages, not the intrepreter itself [23:14] calc: Yeah I understood what you meant. [23:14] "in theory, theory and practice are the same thing" [23:14] people tend to do weird things in rules files ;-) [23:15] "in practice, AIIGH MY EYES" [23:15] * calc points at his 3600 line OOo rules file for example ;-) [23:16] on the policy manual item, I have a git branch (hi, anyone who likes doing integration glue, I'd love a git->bzr import option that works, thanks!) of debian-policy into which I've imported most of UbuntuPackagingChanges [23:16] . o O (these kinds of large, sweeping changes would be oh so much nicer to do if everything had test suites with good coverage) [23:16] I'd like to spend some time at the sprint with anyone who's interested in hashing out more standards text [23:17] cjwatson, you mean "Ubuntu Policy"? [23:17] correct [23:18] ok, enough about the sprint, we'll have plenty of that next week; /msg or mail me any extra items you think of and I'll work them in [23:19] congratulations to the 8.04.1 team on delivering on-time, though I gather it was a bit of a crunch towards the end [23:19] has anyone had any interesting feedback on .1 that they'd like to share? [23:19] indeed, congratulations. [23:19] we will get a chance to remedy some things in six months' time [23:20] You can't garentee that users will help you work through bugs and get them fixed. :) [23:20] TheMuso: fussy users :-) [23:21] TheMuso: any more news on that bug? we put it in the release notes in the hope of scaring up more attention [23:21] cjwatson: Yeah I saw that, and while one person has reported back with no issues, thats nothing to go on to mov towards fixing it. [23:21] Wubi once again bit us right at the end. [23:22] we need to lower that load for 8.10 somehow [23:22] evand: perhaps you should sit with the QA team and figure out how to get this more effectively tested [23:23] * TheMuso can step up and do more wubi testing. I would have if I hadn't had other things to worry about. [23:23] cjwatson: will do [23:24] it seems that pulseaudio still has the hanging issue (caused by suspend/resume socket disappearing?) [23:24] I've seen people suggest on various forums (not just ubuntu-devel-discuss) that we should do more thorough testing of the ISOs pre-release; it took quite a bit of time this time again, didn't it? longer/more test scenarios is going to make that slower, unless we find a lot of new testers [23:24] my system hung yesterday [23:24] well new apps starting hung [23:25] calc: I think that is to do with the actual hardware driver, but since I don't have that problem, I can't really look any further. [23:25] oh ok [23:26] liw: yes, the eternal dilemma [23:26] liw: same issue as usual, only < 10 testers are doing all the tests. So that's not a lot of different hardware and because of the short amount of time we have we can't try all weird setup ... [23:26] more thorough testing takes longer [23:28] TheMuso: perhaps you can poke at calc's system next week [23:28] while it's not really platform's job to find them, it'd be cool if someone came up with ideas for attracting more people to test stuff [23:28] cjwatson: Thats certainly an option, however I am not yet sure what to look for, but I'll give it a shot. [23:28] TheMuso: it doesn't happen really often but it did several times at UDS and again yesterday [23:28] liw: free beer and MOTASes [23:29] masters of the... oh [23:29] calc: The plot thickens. [23:29] :-) [23:30] cjwatson, "Find a new bug in our ISO, and we'll send you a keg." -- that'd certainly attract a lot of people [23:30] liw: though seriously ... yes. um, maybe one answer would be for the development team to more actively prioritise bugs from well-known testers [23:30] which we sort of do anyway when they're serious, but not so much for the minor annoyances [23:31] the Donald Knuth approach works for less buggy software ... [23:31] would it help to move the ISO testing activites from #ubuntu-testing to #ubuntu-devel to give them more exposure? [23:31] I'd doubt it [23:32] * stgraber doesn't think so [23:32] it's possible; I think testers should still have their own forum where they can feel like they can witter in peace, but they should be welcome on #ubuntu-devel [23:32] I suspect reducing the barrier to entry would be the key thing [23:32] perhaps questions about specific problems should be encouraged to move from #ubuntu-testing to #ubuntu-devel if they can't easily be answered on the former. Does this already happen? [23:32] #ubuntu-devel is usually busy enough near release time. -testing is better for discussing testing bugs (and VM bugs) [23:32] (maybe we should discuss this at the sprint / mailing list, we only have an hour now) [23:33]