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warp10Hi *13:23
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* beuno pokes mrevell 15:44
mrevellHey beuno15:44
beunohey  :)15:45
beunowill you be around in ~30 minutes?15:45
beunoI want to grab Rinchen and mpt, and try to do something sensible with help15:45
mrevellbeuno: Sure, I'll be around for just about all of th rest of today.15:45
mrevellsomething sensible?15:45
Rinchenlike make it work? :-)15:45
beunoRinchen, it already works, so it has that much sense now15:46
beunoI just want it to be... well... better than average  :)15:46
beunobut I have to wrap something up, and then, I'll start the flamewar15:46
=== salgado is now known as salgado-brb
* beuno poked mrevell, Rinchen and mpt 16:28
beunoso...  help16:28
beunothis is what happens today:16:28
beunoyou click on something (ideally, an icon), and a div appears in the center of your screen16:29
beuno600*400px aprox16:29
beunoand that embeds a URL in the iframe16:29
beunowhich, AFAIK, will be help.lp.net16:30
beunoembeding that has a few problems16:30
beuno1) if people click on a link, they'll navigate withing the iframe, which sucks terribly16:30
beuno2) we can't control very much how it's presented16:31
beuno3) we depend on an external site to load help16:31
beuno4) I hate iframes16:31
beunoso, that's the first issue16:31
mpt(1a) We can't reach into the page with JS to make navigating do the right thing, because help.launchpad.net is a different domain so browsers won't give us permission to do that16:32
mpt(There's also the reasons previously discussed when LaunchpadHelp was being written: (5) the help is routinely a week or six behind the actual interface, (6) the help doesn't update at the same time as a rollout. Neither of which are mrevell's fault at all, it's just emergent from the process.)16:34
mrevellmpt: I'm hoping that we can improve the process so that I'm involved much earlier in a feature's development, in order to provide UI and help text.16:41
mrevellAlso, my intention is to use specially written pages for the in-line help - so, perhaps /QuickHelp/BugSupervisor or something similar. I think we'd discussed that previously16:42
mptmrevell, right, the latter is what I was asking for an example of this morning16:42
mrevellmpt: Yeah, although obviously we have none of that right now so I pulled out a page of what I imagine will be the upper range of the length we can expect.16:43
beunowell, that mitigates the problem, but doesn't solve it16:43
beunowe still have an external page16:44
beunono control over it16:44
beunowe have to pull a lot of useless HTML to show a few characters16:44
beunoexternal site, etc16:44
beunoso, the solution to that would be to have the inline help in the code base16:44
beunomake it simple for mrevell to update it16:45
beunobut that would involve bzr to some extent16:45
beunothat would solve all the problems above  :)16:45
mrevellI'm happy to use bzr16:45
mrevellI've forwarded you both an email that Andrea Corbellini, a Launchpad doc team member, sent me, with some ideas on how to manage inline help.16:46
Rinchenhowdy, someone call?16:46
mptRinchen, yes, please read the last 20 mins16:46
beunodamn, Andrea really went great lengths to do the script...16:48
mptIs that converting wikitext into HTML?16:49
beunowell, doing a lot of regex16:49
beunoit guesses the HTML16:49
Rinchenwell, we could right a quick macro which looks for control sections  like  inlinehelp{{{  some help }}} and then call that16:50
beunonot sure this is the right fit, and we definetly don't want to hit help.lp.net every time you need inline help16:50
Rinchenso  ?=print-inlinehelp or something16:50
Rinchenanother option is just to put the help in a branch16:50
mrevellRinchen: I've sent you Andrea's email, as an FYI16:50
Rinchenand I give mrevell access to the source code16:51
beunoRinchen, again, that will be a bit better, but won't solve the problem at large16:51
beunohelp branch would be great16:51
mrevellRinchen: Would we be limited to making changes at a roll-out?16:51
Rinchenmrevell, yes16:51
Rinchenmrevell, although edge would update when the db is not oepn16:51
mptWe allow cherrypicks for urgent bug fixes16:52
Rinchenbeuno, what would not be solved by bzr?16:52
Rinchen<beuno> but that would involve bzr to some extent16:52
Rinchen<beuno> that would solve all the problems above  :)16:52
RinchenI am con fuse ed16:52
mptCould we allow piggybacking cherrypicks for help text, on the grounds that changing help text is unlikely to cause bugs by itself?16:52
beunoRinchen, that would be the second issue, which doesn't change anybody's workflow, it's just a different wat of showing the help16:53
beuno(I haven't presented that yet)16:53
Rinchenin an ideal world, the help wiki does not exist.  LP is intuitive and where someone needs some extra hand-holding, we have that inside LP right where the user might need it16:54
mrevellIs it technically difficult/undesirable to have a second bzr branch that's only for inline help and that I could push to outside of the normal roll-out process? If it's only text, like you say mpt, it's unlikely to introduce bugs.16:54
Rinchenwe could have the help text as sourcecode mpt16:54
Rinchenstill uses PQM but would allow it to be a separately managed branch16:54
mptIf putting the help text under Bazaar's control is to solve (or reduce) the problem of help text being out of sync with the code, then it needs to be possible for a single commit to change both Launchpad code and help text.16:56
mptIs it possible to do that with sourcecode/?16:56
Rinchenhmmm just wondering about that. Let's ask Francis16:57
Rinchenasked on -code.  I think the answer is no16:58
RinchenI think it's either trunk or sourcecode but not both16:58
Rinchensince the merge locations are different16:58
Rinchenalternatively we can make a  lib/canonical/launchpad/help directory and just reference the help text out of there16:59
RinchenI'd very much like to have the help text as a separate file rather than having to edit code to change the help text17:00
Rinchenwill also make it easier to translate into another language when we decide to do that17:00
Rinchen (when/if ... that is)17:00
mrevellAnd it'll reduce the possibility of me introducing errors into the code...17:00
beunoyes, it should be in a seperate file, I don't see any reason for it not to17:01
mrevelly'know obviously I'd be super careful etc17:01
beunoa .py that can server specifically inline help17:01
beunoor separate that into content + python that does serving magic17:02
beunoso then we'd just request lp.net/inlinehelp?new_bug17:02
beunoor something like that17:02
beunoalmost wouldn't have to change the current frontend at all for that  :)17:02
beunook, so, if that can be done, leaving aside implementation details17:04
beunohere's the second bit17:04
beunoI think inline help should be placed next to what you're helping about17:04
Rinchenthat's the biggest problem with the help wiki at this point17:05
Rinchenyou have to go off and search for it17:05
beunoa sort of bubble that clearly starts at the item you're refering to17:05
beunoright now we just show it in the center17:05
beunowhich is less than ideal IMHO17:05
Rinchenthere's another issue where today we design help around an entire page or workflow17:05
Rinchenrather than on a particular field or set of buttons on a particular page17:06
beunoright, that should change17:06
RinchenI'm only in partial agreement there17:06
Rinchenwe still need to educate users on the overall flow17:06
beunoalso, there a few things that we discussed on the 3.0 UI sprint which makes this much more interesting17:06
RinchenHow to get from A to D for example17:06
beunoRinchen, well, there is a few ideas on that17:06
mrevellYeah, I don't see the need for the user guide going away.17:06
beunothe one I like the most17:06
beunois, the first time a user lands on a report a bug page17:07
mrevellLP is far more complex than the average web app, so inline help has a really useful place but so does the user guide17:07
beunoyou popup inline help on each item that's relevent through the process17:07
beunoso you hand-hold them to the end17:07
beunothat can be repeated until the user thinks he's ready17:07
beunoalso, the same thing can be applied for frequent users which face new features17:08
beunoso the actual global help is lp itself17:08
beunoand not a page with screenshots17:08
beunoof course, it's a long way to get there17:08
beunobut having inline help short and to the point, clearly pointing at what the help is for, is a good start17:09
* Rinchen can just see the requests on -users and #launchpad now. "How do I turn off these damn help bubbles?!?!17:10
Rinchenyeah, I like the ballon help best17:10
beunoRinchen, well, just show them the first time a user goes through a process17:10
Rinchenit takes less space than a collapsible area17:10
beunoand then make it easy for them to see them again17:11
Rinchenbeuno, that doesn't work around here unfortunately17:11
mrevellbeuno: I like the idea but I'm concerned that our processes don't take in just one page17:11
Rinchenbeuno, we have LOTS of people who can't even unsubscribe from a mailing list which, in the footer, is a link to unsubscribe17:11
mrevellI love the idea of having a prominent link to find out more about something that's new to the user but I'm not sure an automated run-through would be anything less than frustrating.17:11
mptI think the overall problem here is that in most parts of Launchpad, we're so far from the point where adding help is the best way to address any particular usability problem, that we don't have good examples of help text to work with17:11
mptso we're trying to imagine various presentations of text that doesn't exist yet :-)17:12
Rinchenthere is that too (both mpt and mrevell)17:12
RinchenThe idea that I favour most is to have bubble help on anything that a user can change17:12
Rinchenand then a distinct link to "find out more" which takes them to a users guide17:12
mrevellWhen we've discussed the help spec in the past, the idea was always - AFAIK - to do our best to make 1. the UI intuitive, 2. the UI text sufficiently clear and 3. use help text on those parts of the page where you just can't get all the explanation into the UI text.17:13
beunoright, that's all I think we can do today17:13
Rinchenand that find out more could actually be in the bubble help for that mater17:13
mptSo, one good example that could be written right now is what "Convert to question" means in a bug report17:13
* beuno has plans for the future17:13
mrevellmpt: Yeah, a good example.17:13
mptbecause we can say quite confidently that adding explanatory text inline would be giving that link undue prominence17:13
mptso adding popup help of some form *is* the best way to make it more understandable17:14
mptSo, maybe mrevell could write up a paragraph or two for that specific topic17:14
mptthen we can use that as an example for the popup help?17:14
mptthen explore alternative ways of presenting it17:15
* Rinchen wonders if putting the popup help text would best be done in the interface definition.17:15
Rinchenwould existing in 1 place but could be served on multiple pages without duplication17:15
=== salgado-brb is now known as salgado
mptRinchen, that might make it more difficult to make it context-sensitive (e.g. including the project name, or your Launchpad ID in bzr commands, etc)17:16
Rinchendunno mpt. we'd have that in the browser files when calling the page17:17
Rinchenbut it would certainly limit how much you could customize the text for a particular page17:17
RinchenI'm counting on the fact that it's a standard across the system so the definition and use doesn't change17:17
Rinchenthere's no reason we couldn't take the Interface help text and modify it on that particular page17:18
Rinchenbut that does sound like too much work17:18
beunoright.  You're subscribing to ${project} and will recieve notifications for ${bug title}17:19
beunodoesn't seem *that* complicated17:19
beunosome thought will have to go into each piece of help17:20
Rinchenyeah, I was thinking about that beuno ... just encode substitution variables in the help text itself but there are issues then for anonymous users also because we might find that not all contexts have the variables defined17:22
Rinchenthat doesn't mean it won't work17:22
beunoRinchen, right. Start with public variables17:22
Rinchenit just means we'd have to do some testing and ensure if there are cases we'd find them and make corrections17:22
beunoand make the system more complex as you go17:22
Rinchenif we want to tinker with the interfaces in any fashion whatsoever, we need to get a proposal written and get that out to the LP dev team for technical review17:24
beunocool, although I won't get to that this week, so that'll probably end up on mpt's side17:26
* beuno ducks17:26
Rinchenso, do we have a plan then?17:40
Rinchenbeuno, you'll write up the concept?17:40
Rinchenand perhaps pass it on to mpt and mrevell ?17:41
Rinchenand for the new-comers.. context sensitive help in launchpad as bubbles :-)17:41
beunoRinchen, sure, I'll give it a go and pass it down17:42
beunoI'll split it up into "what can be done now" and "what we can do the in the future"17:42
Rinchennifty.  I think the existing spec we have lacks implementation details..but admittedly I haven't read it since March17:42
beunothe latter is something I'm suppose to work on anyways, if sabdfl answers my email soon  :)17:43
Rinchennifty thanks beuno17:49
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=== bac|away is now known as bac
Rinchenhow D18:57
Rinchenstatik, did you let knmurphy in here? :-)18:58
=== salgado-brb is now known as salgado
Rinchensomeone go poke Francis please18:59
Rinchenwe're going to have a short meeting I think today18:59
Rinchena bunch of folks are attending conferences and such18:59
RinchenWelcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating Launchpad development.19:00
MootBotMeeting started at 13:01. The chair is Rinchen.19:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]19:00
Rinchen[TOPIC] Roll Call19:00
MootBotNew Topic:  Roll Call19:00
RinchenI have apologies from kiko Steve  Diogo Schwuk Thumper Danilos Muharem19:01
jtvdanilo's off this week19:01
Rinchenok, Releases Team is here19:01
statiklpcomm is here19:01
BjornTallenap: ping19:02
flacostebarry, mars: ping?19:02
barryflacoste: i me'd before you got here :)19:02
flacostebarry, mars: yeah, sorry :-)19:02
flacosteFoundations is here19:02
Rinchenlooks like abently is also not here19:03
Rinchenand soyuz is here19:03
Rinchengreat.. of we go19:03
Rinchen[TOPIC] Agenda19:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Agenda19:03
Rinchen * Next meeting19:03
Rinchen * Actions from last meeting19:03
Rinchen * Oops report (sinzui)19:03
Rinchen * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)19:03
Rinchen * Bug tags19:03
Rinchen * Operations report (mthaddon/herb)19:03
Rinchen * DBA report (stub)19:03
Rinchen * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)19:03
Rinchen * New packages required (salgado)19:03
Rinchen * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)19:03
Rinchen * Doc Team report (mrevell)19:04
mthaddonRinchen, (mthaddon/herb/spm)19:04
Rinchen[TOPIC] Next meeting19:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Next meeting19:04
mrevellI won't be here next week. I shall appoint someone to take my place for the user-affecting issue.19:04
Rinchenthanks mrevell19:04
Rinchennext mtg is the 17th same time location19:04
Rinchenanyone else know ahead of time they will be otherwise engaged?19:04
Rinchen[AGREED] Next meeting the 17th.  Apologies from mrevell19:05
MootBotAGREED received:  Next meeting the 17th.  Apologies from mrevell19:05
Rinchen[TOPIC] Actions from last meeting19:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Actions from last meeting19:05
Rinchen[TOPIC] Oops report19:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Oops report19:05
Rinchenwe don't have a full report today19:05
Rinchensinzui, do you have anything in particular to discuss?19:05
Rinchenthanks to sinzui for covering for matsubara this week19:05
sinzuiI'm standing in for matsubara. I'd like to bring 4 classes of opps to you attention. I don't think any are high priority, but they are dominating the reports I have seen this week:19:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 52574 in zope3 "Surrogate error in Zope component architecture leading to an OOPS" [Undecided,Confirmed]19:05
ubottusinzui: Error: This bug is private19:06
ubottusinzui: Error: This bug is private19:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 246932 in launchpad "global search oopses from incomplete XML" [Undecided,Confirmed]19:06
Rinchenany takers on those?19:07
Rinchenmars, perhaps on the last one: search ?19:07
Rinchenflacoste, any idea on the zope item?19:08
gmbI could take 48464, though I doubt I'd be able to get to it before the rollout.19:08
flacosteRinchen: not on the radar until we upgrade19:08
marsRinchen, sorry, my plate is full of 2.019:08
Rinchengmb, that's ok.  I just like finding someone to investigate these further.19:09
sinzuiI'm not convinced that any of these oops are more important than our current work19:09
gmbRinchen: In that case, I'll look into it, but I don't think it's urgent.19:09
RinchenI agree19:09
Rinchenthanks gmb19:09
Rinchensinzui, would you be so kind as to send the list above to matsubara via email please?19:10
sinzuiI will19:10
Rinchengreat thanks.19:10
RinchenAnything for sinzui or any other comments on the oopses above?19:10
Rinchenok then19:10
Rinchen[TOPIC] Critical Bugs (Rinchen)19:11
MootBotNew Topic:  Critical Bugs (Rinchen)19:11
Rinchen[LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/24652419:11
Rinchensinzui, thanks for working on this.  What's left to do on this one?19:11
MootBotLINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/24652419:11
ubottuRinchen: Error: This bug is private19:11
ubottuMootBot: Error: This bug is private19:11
sinzuiI have a partial fix for this in review19:12
Rinchensinzui, k. I see there are some newer comments in the bug so thanks for that19:12
Rinchensinzui, need any assistance from anyone on this?19:12
sinzuithe user who was locked out this morning was from a differnent scenario, So I believe work needs to be done19:12
sinzuiI think the next branch will be easier/faster since I added test infrastructure19:13
Rinchenok, I'll leave this one in your capable hands then.  Thanks.19:14
Rinchen[TOPIC] Bug tags19:14
MootBotNew Topic:  Bug tags19:14
Rinchenwe have one19:14
Rinchenregression proposed by mpt19:14
Rinchenmpt, I see what you are going for here but I'm not convinced by the evidence that it's sufficient to warrant a bug tag.19:14
RinchenDoes anyone have any questions or comments on this proposed tag?19:15
RinchenTeam leads?19:15
intellectronicawhat use do you imagine for it?19:15
cprov-lunchRinchen: how do we track regressions currently ?19:15
intellectronicait may be interesting for tracking, but otherwise i don't see how useful it is to tag regressions19:16
mptI explained the use on the wiki page19:16
cprov-lunchRinchen: well, I know we don't, but would it be good for us if we start doing it ?19:16
BjornTi don't see much use of such a tag19:16
Rinchencprov-lunch, we don't currently other than in the description text or follow-on comments19:16
=== cprov-lunch is now known as cprov
mptIf Importance was reliably set for bugs, knowing that something was a regression would tend to increase its importance19:16
mptbecause all other things being equal, users are angrier about regressions than they are about other bugs that would otherwise be the same importance.19:17
marsintellectronica, I thought it useful for tracking bad 2.0 UI changes19:17
barrytags help find bugs, i'm not sure this tag helps in that case19:17
cprovRinchen: I would like to see some numbers, but I don't know if it's a valid use-case for a tag.19:17
mptThe flaw in that argument is, that we don't currently reliably set Importance for bugs.19:17
BjornTmpt: shouldn't the description make clear that it's a regression?19:17
RinchenWe also at times create "regressions" when we change how things work... such as the UI19:17
marsRinchen, right19:17
mptBjornT, sure, but you could say that about almost all the tags we already have too.19:18
BjornTmpt: except that, as barry said, tags are used to find bugs19:18
mptAh, but the other tags we have are used for searching19:18
mptright, right19:18
mptgood point19:18
jtvIn theory, a regression should be a test failure, not a bug.19:18
statiki'm -1 on regressions, as it doesn't mean much without a lot of subjective interpretation19:18
RinchenI say regressions in quotes because to us it is a change that has been thought-out but users may not approve and call it a bug19:18
statikwhere the other tags, like feeds or ui cannot really be debated when they apply :)19:19
marsstatik, good point19:19
BjornTstatik: well, ui can be debated :)19:19
mptjtv, in practice, there is much our tests don't test, including but not limited to CSS and JavaScript19:19
stubSo this is to work around us not setting Importance correctly. How come setting a tag is easier?19:20
RinchenOk,  Based on the discussion, I'm going to declare this one, at this point in time, not approved.  Sorry mpt.  Please keep up the proposals though.  If you have more justification to this you can add it to the wiki page and propose it again19:21
Rinchen[AGREED] regressions tag decline for now.19:21
MootBotAGREED received:  regressions tag decline for now.19:21
Rinchenmpt, please update the wiki.  thanks19:21
Rinchen[TOPIC] Operations report (mthaddon/herb)19:21
MootBotNew Topic:  Operations report (mthaddon/herb)19:21
spmVarious application servers are dying and leaving a stale PID file: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/24722719:22
ubottuspm: Error: This bug is private19:22
spmHad three Cherry Picks to lpnet*, scripts and codehosting: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/22462319:22
ubottuspm: Error: This bug is private19:22
spmcodebrowse has been migrated to a separate server19:22
spmBeen running a LOSA sprint in London this week19:22
spmLibrarian caching is live in production19:22
spmPersonal Note: I did greatly appreciate all the 4am well-wishes last week :-)19:22
spmThat's it from LOSA Land. Any questions from the channel?19:22
Rinchenflacoste, can you spare someone to look at the pid file bug above?19:23
flacosteRinchen: i'll look at the logs19:23
Rinchenthanks flacoste19:23
flacosteand see if there is something19:23
Rinchen[AGREED] flacoste to look at bug 247227 to see if there is any obvious reason for stale pid files19:23
MootBotAGREED received:  flacoste to look at bug 247227 to see if there is any obvious reason for stale pid files19:23
ubottuRinchen: Bug 247227 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/247227 is private19:23
intellectronicabad pidgin, bad19:23
ubottuMootBot: Bug 247227 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/247227 is private19:23
Rinchenanything else for spm...19:23
Rinchenand I'll update the agenda to include you spm :-)19:24
spmThanks Rinchen :-)19:24
Rinchen[TOPIC] DBA report (stub)19:24
MootBotNew Topic:  DBA report (stub)19:24
stubLoad spikes on the database correspond to load spikes on the appservers where spiders hammer us, causing timeouts.19:24
stubWe currently have 8 cores on the db server. Assuming 50% of appserver time spent in Python and 50% waiting on DB queries and no batch processes, those 8 cores could service 16 simultaneous requests (this is an overestimate).19:24
stubWe currently have 8 lpnet appservers, for a total of 32 handler threads. We also have 4 edge servers another 16 handler threads. So even when the replica database goes online we still have way more appservers than we need that can drive way too many queries to the db causing timeouts.19:24
stubI forgot to say thankyou to whoever thought of putting the max query counts for a page in the daily OOPS reports. These are pretty obviously prime targets to optimize and I believe the pages being shown up are being aggressively worked on.19:24
stubIs demo free at the moment? I need to do some testing with real appservers and a real database but don't want to use staging to avoid screwing up QA.19:24
mthaddonstub, https://launchpad.canonical.com/DemoUsers19:25
RinchenI believe demo is free stub.19:25
stubI think so too - just double checking :)19:25
mthaddonstub, demo is fairly out of date - pre-storm, for instance19:26
RinchenI don't know of any of the conferences this week which are using it19:26
bigjoolsThe Soyuz team is definitely aggressively working on those high query count pages19:26
mthaddonstub, so let us know if you want it updated19:26
stubI'll handle demo - I'll need to run my own branch19:26
mthaddonokey doke19:26
Rinchenmthaddon, can you please update the demousers page and add stub to it :-)19:27
Rinchenany further questions for Stu?19:27
mthaddonstub, how long should I put you down for? maybe you could add yerself? :)19:27
stubI'll add myself19:27
Rinchenthanks stub19:27
Rinchen[TOPIC] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)19:27
RinchenIs anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent?19:27
MootBotNew Topic:  Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)19:27
RinchenI'll take that as a no.19:28
Rinchen[TOPCI] New packages required (salgado)19:29
salgadoanything for me this week?19:29
Rinchen[TOPIC] New packages required (salgado)19:29
MootBotNew Topic:  New packages required (salgado)19:29
salgadoguess no19:29
stubShould the dependencies contain version number requirements when packages come from sources other than hardy?19:29
stubI suspect I wasn't the only one without the pqm repo listed19:30
Rinchenand should we add the bzr ppa dependencies to it?19:30
Rinchendunno stub, we had a few email threads about this back when I added that :-)19:30
salgadoI've made it require specific versions when I was told a specific version was needed19:30
salgadostub, what's this pqm repo?19:31
mthaddonjust what we were wondering :)19:31
stub# The latest custom bzr-pqm package deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jamesh/ubuntu hardy main19:31
salgadoyou need that for psycopg219:31
RinchenSee https://launchpad.canonical.com/NewLaunchpadder  for the full list currently recommended19:32
statiksalgado: btw i rewrote launchpad-dependencies a bit for my new project, and put it in a bzr branch using bzr-builddeb to build it, happy to share the branch with you if you are interested19:32
salgadostatik, will you maintain separate branches for each distro series?19:32
statiksalgado: nope, just using ppa copy functionality19:33
stubAnyway - just wondering if it is worth putting > 0.92 for bzr-pqm, >= 2.0.8 (or whatever) for psycopg2 etc.19:33
salgadostub, we do have that for psycopg19:33
salgadostatik, but that only works if you don't need to do any changes to the packages, I guess?19:34
cprovsalgado: to cope with changes across series you can use auto-ppa package from landscape.19:34
Rinchenstub, I would support your proposal to add those since we need psycopg219:35
Rinchensalgado, your take on stub's proposal?19:35
salgadoRinchen, we already do that: python-psycopg2 (>= 2.0.6+svn945~8.04)19:35
salgadothat's what launchpad-dependencies require19:35
statiksalgado: true, if i need different packages at some point i'll branch and have two series19:36
salgadoand to have that installed one needs jamesh's ppa in sources.list19:36
Rinchensure enough, ok then.19:36
Rinchenanything else for salgado?19:36
Rinchenthanks salgado19:36
salgadothank you19:36
Rinchenwell, it's that time of the meeting.19:36
Rinchenit's the mrevell show!19:37
* mrevell bows19:37
Rinchen[TOPIC] A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)19:37
MootBotNew Topic:  A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)19:37
mrevellYo. Today I have a couple of issues. First off, I'd like to note that today we had another person asking for help as they couldn't log into their account. Are we waiting on the next roll-out for that to be solved fully?19:37
mrevellI suppose that's a question for sinzui.19:37
* stub wonders where his psycopg2 came from19:37
Rinchen<sinzui> I have a partial fix for this in review19:37
mrevellthanks Rinchen19:37
salgadomrevell, todays issue was something else19:38
intellectronicafwiw, i think that this is something we should cp as soon as we've got a fix19:38
mrevellsalgado: Oh was it?19:38
salgadointellectronica, +119:38
RinchenYep, I'm also +1 on a CP for this19:38
intellectronicaand/or proactively search for users that may be affected by these issues19:38
sinzuimrevell: I suspect that the code that claims an account is not updating the account correctly.19:38
salgadomrevell, it was.  currently we have 3 bugs, I think.  one for each view which doesn't update the account's status when they should19:39
mrevellsinzui: Ah, I see. So, is the action still to ping you when someone has this problem? Or is that pointless if the script isn't working properly?19:39
sinzuimrevell: I think so, if only to determine how the user discovered the problem19:39
sinzuiThe fix always seems to be the same, but where the code should have set the account status is different.19:40
mrevellOkay, thanks. I'll continue to make a noise about login problems, in that case, when they come up.19:40
salgadosinzui, shall I file bugs for the two other views which are not setting the status?19:40
Rinchenthanks mrevell. Any other questions for mrevell ?19:40
mrevellSecond issue comes from andrea-bs. He has asked if there's any chance of bug 3522 being solved - i.e. are we going to implement email notifications when someone requests blueprint feedback?19:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 3522 in blueprint "Specification tracker does not handle review email" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352219:40
sinzuisalgado: please do19:40
salgadowill do19:40
flacostemrevell: eventually :-/19:41
mptPerhaps the feature should be hidden until it's implemented?19:41
flacostemrevell: but that may take a while, depending on whether blueprints are a 3.0 priority19:41
mrevellmpt: That's quite tempting.19:41
mrevellflacoste: Right, thanks. It's certainly something I'd value.19:41
mrevellThanks guys.19:41
mrevellback to you Rinchen19:41
Rinchenthanks mrevell. Any other questions for mrevell ?19:41
Rinchen[TOPIC] Doc Team report (mrevell)19:42
MootBotNew Topic:  Doc Team report (mrevell)19:42
mrevellNothing to report from the doc team, other than my appreciation for andrea-bs' continuing enthusiasm and involvement!19:42
mrevellI'm working to get the user guide and tour content ready for deployment this week.19:42
mrevellThat's all from me, thanks Rinchen.19:42
mrevellKinda the andrea-bs show, actually.19:42
Rinchenand thanks to flacoste for putting in the new tour :-)19:42
andrea-bsmrevell: thanks! :)19:42
mrevellyes, thanks flacoste :)19:42
Rinchenthanks mrevell19:43
Rinchenwell, look at this. The meeting ran the full length.19:43
RinchenThank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Developer Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs.19:43
MootBotMeeting finished at 13:45.19:43
RinchenThanks again19:43
=== salgado is now known as salgado-brb
jtvThanks Rinchen, and good night!19:43
mrevellthanks rinchen.19:44
mrevellgmb, rinchen, barry - see you later for the podcast recording19:44
intellectronicathanks Rinchen19:44
=== bac is now known as bac|away
=== salgado-brb is now known as salgado
=== salgado is now known as salgado-afk
=== bac|away is now known as bac

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