=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council
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ubottuAlibb: Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | 10 Jul 13:00: Desktop Team | 10 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 15 Jul 11:00: Community Council09:04
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Alibbhi pitti :)13:59
pittitedg: good morning13:59
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council
tedgMorning pitti14:00
tedgIs today going to be "Ted and the Germans" :)14:00
ubottuAlibb: Current time in Etc/UTC: July 10 2008, 13:00:49 - Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day14:00
pittitedg: s/s$// :)14:00
pittitedg: so far it's just the two of us14:01
pittifor the record, the activity reports and the (non)agenda14:01
tedgOh, I figured kwwii would make it too.14:01
pittiI pung him14:02
pittinothing from kwwii and mpt14:02
mpthi hi14:02
pittiwelcome, mpt and kwwii14:02
pittino agenda from the activity reports, and nothing particular from me either, with just the four of us14:03
pittiso, anything you'd like to alk about?14:03
james_wpitti: I have a small follow up on the users-admin tool if you are interested14:03
pittijames_w: oh, absolutely!14:03
pittijames_w: you pointed me towards this new tool which is in planning14:03
pittibut that didn't look intrepid-able yet?14:03
james_wI sent a mail to the distros list, and that new tool looks really good14:04
mptA new tool in planning?14:04
james_wI imagine it won't be intrepid, perhaps intrepid+1, I could follow up if you like14:04
* mpt has longed to redesign this14:04
pittijames_w: hm, I must have missed it14:04
pitti(the mail, not your IRC ping)14:04
james_wthe only other suggestion was yast14:05
kwwiiI refuse to work on yast again14:05
pittiwell, we want to get rid of super-big tools in favor of a small and sharp one, so yast seems a bit of a step into the wrong direction IMHO14:05
james_wapparently someone is working on porting it to Debian14:05
pittijames_w: I think in that case we can survive with users-admin just a little longer14:06
james_wyeah, the new one seems like it might be a great fit, and presumably will have all the right things like policykit etc.14:06
pittiin intrepid we're going to drop almost all of the 'permisison' groups, so we can even make users-admin a little more slick14:06
james_wpitti: yeah, I think seb would like to get rid of it, but there doesn't seem to be anything better at this time14:06
pittijames_w: at least that settles the question whether or not to put heavy work into s-c-users14:07
pittiif it's essentially declared dead, there's no point for us to port it to PK14:07
mpthmm, some big UI improvements in that new design, but also some awkwardness14:07
pittiit would probably not be too much work to just use s-c-u with gksu, though14:07
pittimpt: it's still in the planning stage, so now would actually be a great time to change the layout14:08
pittimpt: if you are interested in that, do you feel like following up to that annoucements with your thoughts?14:08
pittior are you 100% busy with LP?14:08
mptWell I'm not subscribed to fedora-desktop-list, ;-) but I'll certainly e-mail the authors14:09
pittiright, that's what I meant14:09
pittimpt: thanks14:10
pittiso, unless anyone else has something, I'd just say "see you next week"14:13
* tedg has nothing else to say.14:13
james_w"see you next week"14:13
pittithen, thanks to everyone, and safe travels!14:14
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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Jul 15:00 UTC: Server Team
persiaOK.  We forgot to reserve the room, but it's now time for the Ubuntu Java team meeting.16:01
* soren runs away16:01
* robilad waves and claims the hour for the #ubuntu-java meeting, along with persia16:01
persiaOK.  The agenda is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting16:02
ogradid we reserve for mobile ?16:02
ogranext hour ?16:02
persiaogra: Yes.  See /topic16:02
ograperfect ...16:02
ograsorry for being blind :)16:03
persiaLast week we talked about some goals for intrepid, and those of us with goals committed to putting them up in the Roadmap.16:03
persiaThe results of this are available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/RoadMap16:03
persiaErr.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Roadnap16:03
persiaErr.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Roadmap (I can spell, really!)16:04
persiaRight now, we don't have any assignments, or comments.16:04
persiaFirst item: " Evaluate difficulties faced when utilizing applications that depend and/or are built on Java."  Who can speak to that?16:04
persiaOK.  Anyone want to keep it on the roadmap?  Are we going to do it?16:06
robiladit's not quite clear to me what it means in ├╝practice16:07
robiladpackaging diffculties? developer difficulties? end user difficulties?16:07
persiaRight.  Shall we remove it from the roadmap then?16:07
robiladsounds fair to me, it can go back once it's more finegrained16:08
persiaAnyone else?16:08
persiaOK.  Dropping that then.16:09
persiaNext item: OpenJDK MIR: who is doing that?16:10
persiaDoes it need packaging work first?16:10
dholbachdoko: are you around?16:10
persiadoko: Was that you?16:10
marekswhat is 'MIR'?16:11
dholbachmareks: Main Inclusion Report16:12
robiladhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjdk-6/+bug/246349 for the corresponding bug16:14
ubottuLaunchpad bug 246349 in openjdk-6 "MIR for openjdk-6" [Undecided,New]16:14
persiadoko: May I put your name against that item on the roadmap?  Do you need any help with any packaging fixes for that?16:14
dokopersia: no, that's mostly done. if you do have free resources, maybe look at maven2? I'm not sure who wanted to do that16:15
persiadoko: Koon mentioned it for the last meeting, but didn't add it to the roadmap.16:16
robiladnot here today, afaict16:16
dholbachKoon said he couldn't make it today, but was interested what would get decided about it16:16
robiladdid he find time to check out the fedora patchset?16:16
persiaLet's skip maven for this week: if someone starts work on it, we can add it to the roadmap next week.16:17
dholbachrobilad: no, I don't think he did16:17
robiladok, thanks, then I agree with moving on, and putting it on the agenda for next week16:17
persiaNext item is "Integration of Java into server stack".  Who is the driver for this?16:18
persiaOK.  Anyone want to be the driver for it?16:19
robiladi'd be happy to, but it may require some maven support if we want to build geronimo/glassfish from source16:19
persiaGreat.  Do you want to talk about it a bit, or work on breaking it down into chunks over the next week, and maybe describe some smaller targets for people to help with next week?16:21
dholbachseems like we need a maven workforce :))16:21
robiladi'd be happy to talk about the GF side of things next week16:22
persiaOK.  I'll put your name on it for now, and encourage you to break it down a bit in the roadmap.16:22
persiaNext item: "Identify possible opportunities to optimise the Java stack".  Who wants this one?16:22
dholbachI think cody-somerville added it16:23
dholbachit wasn't really discussed in the last meeting16:23
persiaHmm.  Not here this week.  Anyone else want it?16:23
persiaOpinions on dropping it vs. deferring to next week?16:24
persiaRight.  Let's leave it there, as it's at least well described, and see if Cody comes back next week.16:25
persiaNext item: "Transition Java packages from multiverse to universe where possible".16:26
persiaI raised this, but won't likely do a very good job of getting it done for intrepid.  Anyone willing to take over tracking it?16:26
robiladi think that's an item that would profit from close collaboration with debian16:26
persiaVery much so: http://wiki.debian.org/Java/MoveToMain tracks the Debian progress.16:27
robiladso I'd like to discuss it with man-di when he has time to join us16:27
persiaWhen things move to Main in Debian, someone needs to file a bug in Ubuntu to ask the archive-admins to promote the package to universe.16:27
persiarobilad: While I'm certain man-di could do it, I'd think this sort of tracking Debian might be an easy way for someone new to get involved.16:28
robiladthat's a very good point16:28
persiaAnyone interested?  If not, I'll take it, but would be happy to hand it to anyone who wants to take over.16:29
persiaNext item: "Improved Java environment on PowerPC": who has a power PC and wants to coordinate the porting efforts?  I think there were a couple people interested last week.16:30
persiaOK.  Opinions on keeping it on the roadmap or dropping it?16:32
robiladis it a release arch for interpid?16:32
persiaWell, it's in ports.16:32
dokoso it's not a release arch16:33
* persia grumbles about definition of terms, and quibbles a bit before subsiding16:33
robiladit seems that it would take a volunteer from the ubuntu powerpc community to keep it on map16:33
persiaRight, and we don't have one this week.  If someone objects to removing it in the minutes, they can take charge of it.16:34
persiaOK.  That was the Roadmap review: we'll do it again next week.16:34
persiaBack to the new items on the agenda:16:34
persiaxhaker seems to be absent, so we'll defer this again.16:35
persiaNext item: "Moving meetings to 14h".  robilad: all yours.16:35
robiladok, i spoke with man-di what time would work for him16:36
robiladand he suggested starting one or preferrably two hours earlier,16:36
robiladi.e. 13 or 14h UTC.16:36
robiladwould that still work for everyone interested?16:36
persiaI'm good for either of those times.16:37
* robilad pokes persia, doko, dholbach, mareks16:37
robiladthanks, persia16:37
* persia notes that others not just poked who would find those times inconvenient ought speak up quick.16:38
robiladah, the advantages of not announcing a meeting on fridge ... ;)16:38
dholbachyeah, I'm good too16:38
robiladno volunteers, but also no trouble rescheduling ;)16:39
robiladthanks, dholbach16:39
persiaOK.  From now, we'll take meetings at 14h.16:39
persiaThat completes our agenda.  Any volunteers to write up the minutes?16:40
* robilad would be happy to, where should the write up go to?16:41
* doko is leaving, back late in the evening16:41
persiarobilad: I'd think we probably want to put it on the wiki, and maybe send an email.16:41
persiaI'd be happy to discuss particulars with you in #ubuntu-java after the meeting.  Thanks for volunteering.16:42
robiladok. next meeting - thu 17th, 14h UTC.16:42
persiaThanks everyone.  See you next week!16:42
dholbachthanks guys16:42
robiladthanks all, and bye16:42
dokoohh, I won't make it next week for the meeting16:45
persiadoko: OK.  If there's a change in status on OpenJDK can you let us know in #ubuntu-java, and someone else can bring it to the meeting?16:46
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Jul 15:00 UTC: Server Team
* ogra waves17:02
MootBotMeeting started at 11:03. The chair is davidm.17:02
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]17:02
davidmOK silly of me17:02
ograold habits die hard :)17:02
davidmGood morning everyone.17:03
davidmWe have no prior business from last week.17:03
davidm I do have a bit of news, I have located the mootbot meeting logs for the last two weeks so I'll post them today.17:03
davidmOK that is better.17:03
davidmSomeone please keep an eye on #ubuntu-mobile so that anyone confused (like I was ) gets directed here, thanks.17:03
GrueMasterdo you need to restart mootbot?17:03
loolSo I guess we can move to this week's items?17:04
loolGrueMaster: he did17:04
davidmAlready did17:04
loolAnd additionally this chan is logged 100% of the time I think17:04
persiaIt is.  irclogs.ubuntu.com17:04
GrueMasterjust checking.17:04
davidm[topic] Wiki cleanup: feedback and ideas (EmmetHikory)17:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Wiki cleanup: feedback and ideas (EmmetHikory)17:04
loolpersia: Thanks for a lot for picking up this task!17:04
persiaOK.  Last week, I send out https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mobile/2008-July/001935.html17:04
loolpersia: Did you check whether dholbach had any useful bits on this task?17:04
persiaEveryone who replied to the mail was in agreement.  Anyone else have suggestions?17:05
loolI think he cleaned up the dev pages of the Ubuntu wiki some months ago17:05
davidm[link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mobile/2008-July/001935.html17:05
MootBotLINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mobile/2008-July/001935.html17:05
persialool: Yes.  I've gotten a lot of input from him on standard team structures, etc.17:05
persiaThat was part of why I suggested separating the team from the flavour on the wiki.17:05
loolI fully agree17:06
loolAnd I would add that any additional orthogonals splits that you can come up with will probably help reuse information17:06
persiaOK.  In the absence of either objections or other ideas, I'll start implementing the changes I described next week.  Anyone who wants to get a head start is welcome to dive in.17:07
davidmpersia, sounds good to me :-)17:07
davidmOK if there is no more on this topic?17:08
davidmThere are no additional items on the agenda.17:08
davidm[topic] Agenda empty!!!17:09
MootBotNew Topic:  Agenda empty!!!17:09
cgregandavidm: devices?17:09
davidmcgregan, ??17:09
cgreganI talked to pat17:09
cgreganIntel will need to provide17:10
* lool wonders whether we have not much to discuss on these IRC meetings because we have a call some hours before the meeting17:10
davidmGood enough, thanks, I'll get back to them.17:10
davidmlool, from the mobile team, perhaps but we might have topics from the community?17:10
looldavidm: But if we don't discuss all our topics in the public, we wont get much community love17:11
loolIt's not that we're hiding them, but because we cover them privately already...17:11
loolI had a similar problem with the one to ones17:11
cgreganshould we move call to Friday morning?17:11
ograwe should probably switch order ... but that might get tricky if this meeting here is immovable17:11
davidmWe can discuss here if you like, then the team meeting can become short again which I like :-)17:11
loolI had nothing to discuss with people because it was too close ot the weekly phone call17:12
looldavidm: hehe17:12
loolI think either flipping order of phone call and irc meeting or moving them further apart in the week could help17:12
loolAt least it helped me have more interesting phone calls with people17:12
davidmI like the phone call because it gives me a few minutes to "hear" everyone and I get a clew if someone is unhappy or stressed that I can't get here.  I'm quite happy to have meeting here.17:13
loolcgregan: I think moving call Friday morning would work; it's Friday evening for StevenK though17:13
cgreganmake it a weekly recap to discuss what comes up from community here, and status of our work for the week17:13
davidmIf StevenK and persia don't mind I don't17:13
looldavidm: I think having a phone call is fine, it's very effective, but it deprives this IRC meeting from a lot of content17:13
cgreganSame for persia17:13
loolcgregan: Indeed17:14
loolpersia: Sorry :)17:14
* persia has a regular meeting every sixth week at 12:00 UTC on Fridays.17:14
davidm[topic] telephone meeting and it's impact on IRC public meeting17:14
MootBotNew Topic:  telephone meeting and it's impact on IRC public meeting17:14
looldavidm: Do you have any requirement on the contents of your reports?17:14
looldavidm: I mean the weekly reports you'll be aggregating frmo our ARs?17:14
cgreganThe only other option is to move it to their morning.....but that makes it very late for you. Although in a few weeks you will be up changing diapers anyway! :-)17:14
davidmlool, Nope17:15
loolcgregan: haha17:15
loolI'm fine moving to any other day17:15
davidmI do need the activity reports (that I still don't have) hint hint.....17:15
loolI think we should report progress in the IRC meetings and discuss things here like we did on the phone today17:16
davidmOK, that can work.17:17
loolpersia: every sixth week doesn't sound too grave17:18
looldavidm: Shall we try this new meeting time where we might miss persia once every 6 weeks?17:18
looldavidm: Perhaps check with StevenK?17:18
persialool: Nope, but it's MOTU Meeting, which I'm loathe to miss (and you ought be attending :p )17:18
loolAnyway, you people know my computer-times; I'm happy with anything which happens after this IRC meeting in the week or any other day17:18
loolJust not some hours before the IRC meeting ;)17:18
davidmYes, lets talk about it next week in Lexington17:19
davidmAnything else?17:19
loolApart of that I wanted to propose that we announce presence at upcoming events17:19
loologra and myself will try to attend the Debian Extremadura week on Emdebian17:20
loolAnd I'll try to go to the maemo Summit in Berlin17:20
loolShould I announce presence on our mailing-list?17:20
davidmI'll be at OLS week after next in Ottawa Canada17:20
davidmSure, why not?17:20
ografine with me17:20
loolWill do17:20
loolDo we have a wiki page with slides of previous presentations?17:21
davidmpersia, thoughts?17:21
persiaI'm all in favour of announcing presence on mailing lists :)17:21
loolI'd love to reuse some material if I have to present UM&E17:21
davidmI am not aware of any.  Good idea however17:21
davidmThere are some internal but out of date.17:21
loolOk; then I think I'll try to collect some in a wiki page17:22
davidmI can post mine.17:22
loolI'll need to consult with persia on appropriate location of these  :-P17:22
persialool: w.u.c/UbuntuMobile/Presentations/$(NAME)17:22
loolpersia: Name of the event I guess?17:23
davidmDo we just want w.u.c/UbuntuMobile/Presentations and have attachments there?17:23
loolpersia: Why UbuntuMobile and not just Mobile BTW?17:23
persiaOr name of the presentation if you're building a static presentation for multiple fora17:23
davidmSeems perhaps (to me) silly to have a page for an event that has a single attachment?17:24
loolI was thinking we would collect a list of oo presentations or pdfs or whatever and list at which events these were presented by whom at which date17:24
persiaMostly because the name is most similar to UbuntuStudio from the other flavours, and that is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio17:24
looldavidm: I find this a bit heavy too17:24
loolpersia: But then everything on wuc is Ubuntu; sounds weird to repeat that part? :)17:25
persiadavidm: If we're doing attachments, that makes more sense.17:25
persialool: I'm just trying to follow the prevailing conventions.17:25
loolpersia: Desktop is using /DesktopTeam17:25
davidmpersia,  I think mostly that is what we are likely to have.17:25
loolThere's also /PlatformTeam17:26
persiaI'm happy with /MobileTeam, but think that's a different namespace than /UbuntuMobile/17:26
persiadavidm: You've convinced me.17:26
loolpersia: Hmm let's do some research on existing conventions after the meeting then17:27
davidmWould it make sense to have a ???Mobile???/Presentations page and if there is more then just attachments put a page under it, if not just add attachment?17:27
persiaThat works even better: best of both models.17:27
davidm:-P I guess a pointed headed boss can do something correct once in a while ;-P17:28
ian_brasilthere is also this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UMEGuide/PresentationArea17:28
ograi think for massive attachment handling we should take a look at the artwork team pages probably17:28
ograthey collect theme work there17:28
loolian_brasil: What's the criteria used to group these presentations there?17:29
ograif we even get that many presentations together to acually worry :)17:29
ian_brasilpresentations about ubuntu mobile and upstream17:30
davidmTrue, it's not like we are going to be on the road full time doing presentations, but we will do some.17:30
ian_brasili.e. a catch all17:30
loolian_brasil: I would think we need to focus on UM&E presentations; probably as done by people working on UM&E and presenting the goals and their work17:30
loolian_brasil: it looks like you have some hildon presentations in there17:30
loolI think these are helpful to developers, or can be linked to from documentation, but do they really document UM&E or help reusing material for a new presentation?  Perhaps less so17:30
loolian_brasil: But thanks, definitely an useful collection to point technical people at17:31
loolWell all of this is technical anyway :)17:31
loolOk; thanks everybody for discussing presentation materials17:32
loolI don't have anything more on the topic17:33
davidmOK, good enough,17:33
lool(Anyone has additional topics?)17:33
* ogra not atm17:33
davidmotherwise meeting close going once.......................................................................................................................17:33
* GrueMaster remains silent. :-X17:34
davidmmeeting close going twice ................................................17:34
MootBotMeeting finished at 11:36.17:35
* lool thanks davidm for taking care of the meeting and the related mootbot/wiki administrativa!17:35
davidmThanks everyone.17:35
davidmNow finding mootbot logs will be harder!!!!17:35
davidmThere are a lot of meetings in this room.....17:36
ograthe ScribesTeam might be of help17:41
ogradavidm, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/SubmitMeeting sepcifically17:42
ogra*specifically even17:42
persiaOooh!  That's a nifty link.  On the other hand, I'm not sure most of my meetings are that disciplined...17:44
ograwell, we have the agenda page at least17:44
ograThe summary and log will be placed on the agenda you gave a link for. An email will be sent when log and summary have been posted to the page.17:44
ograis what the page says17:44
ograso if you just include the scribes team in the weekly mail announce CC list that should work i guess17:46
ogra(after asking them indeed)17:46
persiaProbably, although it also requires mootbot wrangling and people staying on-topic.17:46
ograwhich we have anyway in this meeting17:48
davidmthe scribes have had fun with mootbot hosting so I've been pulling the logs when they show up and hosting them on my people.c.c page17:55
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Jul 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Jul 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 16 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team
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