[04:07] Hello [04:07] is there anyway to get this on my eeepc? [04:08] Chriz21: Not so easily. You'd need to use an i386 kernel and lpia userspace. [04:09] any tutorials? [04:09] lpia??? [04:11] ? [04:13] persia ya there? [04:13] While several people have talked about it, I don't know that anyone wrote a tutorial. [04:14] lpia is "Low Power Intel Architecture" as is another architecture in the archive. It's somewhat like i386 vs. amd64, except for different reasons. [04:14] s/as/and/ [04:15] so it will not just work outta da box? [04:16] persia is there anyway to do something like apt-get install mobile-desktop from an eeexubuntu install? [04:18] Chriz21: You can do that, but it won't generate the right environment. [04:19] :( [04:19] There are currently too many lpia-specific changes to the source packages. [04:19] Yeah, it's not ideal :( [04:19] yeah... [04:19] so how would you go about putting the MID on the eeepc? [04:21] persia btw what platform would i use? [04:21] mccaslin? [04:21] That kernel won't boot (assuming you've a C7-M Eee). You'd need to build a custom image. [04:22] C7-M? [04:22] if i reboot into my ubuntu install can you help me do that? [04:23] Not easily: I'm not that familiar with mixing architectures. You probably have to do some fairly low-level hacking (and I don't have an Eee) === DannyZ_ is now known as DannyZ [11:22] lool, persia, do you guys think it makes sense to create ubuntu-netbook a a team in LP ? (i dont want to clash with the remix guys, they dont seem to claim that namespace though (everything tehy do is using *-netbook-remix)) [11:22] s/a/as/ [11:23] ogra: What would it be for? [11:23] ogra: If you think there is value in a team: I'm increasingly of the opinion that LP teams only make sense when there is code to commit. [11:23] (or some other permission) [11:24] lool, well, the netbook community indeed [11:24] ogra: Would you imagine such a team managing a collection of seeds? [11:24] hmm, seed management should probably be under ubuntu-mobile [11:25] and -netbook should be a subteam [11:25] If we have no immediate need for a new netbook team, I don't think we should create one [11:25] i just fear someone grabbing the name :) [11:25] If seed management is done by the Mobile team, what LP permission requires a netbook team? [11:25] If there's aneed such as coworking on a particular project, hosting code and packages etc. then I'm for it [11:26] Namespace probably won't be an issue: if someone else created such a team, I can't imagine they would want to exclude you. [11:27] thats not what i fear :) but i suspect we'll have subpages for Netbook on the mobile wiki pages as well ... [11:27] was just a thought about consistency [11:27] Will we? I think of the two as very distinct use cases. [11:28] Mobile is what I'd like to have on my Zaurus (not that it is powerful enough). [11:28] i think they will be very close though ... [11:28] we'll surely use the same basic system seeds etc [11:28] Netbook is more for something like my SR8, which is too small to be good for -desktop, but on which -mobile looks terrible. [11:28] and only differ in the desktop package set [11:28] ]That would be different seeds. [11:29] on the toplevel [11:29] oh, you dont differentiate that in -mobile ? [11:29] (-standard, -minimal, etc) [11:29] Well, both are likely to inherit the core seeds, but I didn't think the mobile seeds resembled an onion, really. [11:30] Oh, that's all likely to completely change. [11:30] So, the future: [11:30] ah, i didnt know [11:30] There will be a single group of all seeds. [11:30] Different LP teams will manage different seeds for different flavours. [11:31] well, thats the current situation already [11:31] Where there is overlap, there may be additional seeds (e.g. the "platform" seed, which may become the "core" seed). [11:31] for the top level ones at least [11:31] ah, k [11:31] Packages referenced by a given seed then become maintained by the team coordinating that seed (after archive-admin review for any changes). [11:31] but this platform seed might differ massivley on mobile and netbook platforms vs stadard desktops [11:32] Currently, there's only 7 approved seed collections: any further would require TB approval. [11:32] (do you want compilers and headers on mobile for example ?) [11:32] Of course, that's not fully approved yet. [11:32] Well, mobile will need anything not core on which mobile packages build-depend. [11:32] in the install ?? [11:32] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveReorganisation is the current proposal. [11:33] Right. There's still (roughly) install, ship, and supported. I don't expect a compiler is appropriate for -mobile by default. [11:33] * ogra surely doesnt want to waste his very limited diskspace on gcc or linux-headers for netbook [11:34] currently the standard or minimal seed depends on them [11:34] (not sure which one from the top of my head) [11:34] and its likely that the desktop platform seed will do so in the future [11:35] so i assume for mobile there will be a stripped version of this ... which i would use for -netbook as well [11:35] ogra: Yes, but a hypothetical -netbook seed doesn't need to inherit from that: germinate will help create the build-depends, depends/recommends, etc. lists. [11:36] Ideally, one lists the top-level packages one needs. Everything else gets populated by germinate. [11:36] hmm [11:36] i dont see that working like that, but we'll see [11:36] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement [11:37] Actually, that page doesn't do such a good job of describing it :( [11:38] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Germinate does better. [11:39] ogra: What do you see missing from that model? [11:39] but that still uses the same required and minimal seed all over the place [11:40] i see missing a mobile-minimal or required seed that is stipped down [11:40] i'm sure tere are many apps we dont want from the minimal set [11:42] Then we just don't depend on minimal. I don't see the issue. [11:42] Remember, there's no reason one needs to specify certain dependencies in STRUCTURE, as long as one generates a consistent system. [11:48] ogra: I don't see anything from aptitude show ubuntu-minimal that I'd encourage dropping. Which app? [11:52] tsaksel ... [11:52] *task [11:52] in the cmpc image i was requested to remove aptitude [11:52] which tasksel depends on [11:52] as an example [11:53] I suppose if I had to choose, we might drop aptitude, less, netcat, python (keeping python-minimal), tasksel, and vim-tiny, but that's trimming *really* tight. [11:53] If tasksel depends on aptitude, aptitude shouldn't also be in the seed. [11:53] well, the aptitude removal (which pulls some extra packages as well) gained me about 5M [11:53] its just an example [11:54] indeed i cant predict the future ... [11:54] but if every byte counts we will likely have a completely different set of low level seeds [11:54] ogra: If every byte counts, we probably don't want any seed dependencies. [11:55] On the other hand, not using the required seed might make it a bit tricky, as policy doesn't mandate Depends: on required. [11:58] ogra: Watching -devel: are you planning to push imagewriter again this weekend, or can we look at it together next week? [12:01] i want the package in [12:01] we can change it next week indeed [12:01] i'm not pushing, pitti is just processing NEW from my last upload [12:02] ogra: OK. I've just still a bit of backlog I want to clear today, but have a short list of fixes for it that I'd be happy to add (e.g. licensing, packaging, etc.) [12:03] oh, then i'll wait for your fixes and dont fiddle myself :) [12:03] make sure to have synced to the last upstream branch though .... i added gettext-isation [12:03] and pushed the pot to LP already [12:04] ogra: As long as you don't mind waiting for a few days (e.g. Monday or Tuesday). Let's you concentrate on the knotty dd issue :) [12:04] s/'// [12:05] ok [12:12] persia, right :) [12:12] thast what i meant with you have a solution pending :P [12:13] ogra: Ah, my solution being that I'll do all the busywork packaging so you can fix dd :) [12:14] ha :) [12:14] well, thats a solution :) [12:15] The only other thing I thought of was doing a call-out from inside python, rather than calling a script. [12:16] The trick is getting the status counter back for the progress bar. [12:17] The ugly way is to send USR1 every pulse and parse the output. I'm sure there's something more elegant. [12:18] not for dd [12:18] it doesnt output without sending USR1 [12:19] and even that output goes to stderr instead of stdout [12:19] Trapping stderr from a call-out isn't impossible. Are you sure we can't get anything with the right status= argument? [12:19] ther is sdd though ... but if we switch to that my stability point which was the reason to choose dd is moot and we can as well take py [12:19] * persia isn't much of a dd expert. [12:20] * ogra is a friend of using existing proven tools ... [12:20] Yes. Always better to use the toolkit rather than writing new (surely buggy) code. [12:20] i have seen to much weird code that i.e. modifies /etc/passwd instead of using adduser or useradd in my life :) [12:21] Isn't there a new one of those published every month or so? [12:21] so my first shot is always to use the proven tool [12:22] those ?? [12:22] New code in cool-language-of-the-month with cool-interface-of-the-month to directly parse, modify, and break /etc/passwd. [12:23] ah, likely heh :) === ogra_ is now known as ogra === asac_ is now known as asac [18:31] hi all, anybody around? [18:34] MeniShevitz: Many people. [18:34] that's good. can any of said people tell me how well ubuntu mobile runs on VIA machines yet? [18:35] vx700 chipset, c7m 1.2ghz cpu [18:35] MeniShevitz: The lpia kernel doesn't boot, and hardy ubuntu-mobile isn't complete. [18:36] oh. shame, i wanted free cool stuff :( [18:36] Supposedly, you ought be able to run an i386 kernel and lpia userspace, but none of the people I've mentioned this to have reported back that it works. [18:37] it's still a good chan to seek people with my model of umpc to bug for help right? [18:37] ^_^ [18:38] likely the best one for that :) [18:38] great :D [18:38] soooo.... [18:38] anybody 'round with a Gigabyte U60 (aka Medion RIM 1000)? [18:39] it's a sweet machine... if you're into developing your own drivers :P [18:39] or just using xp... [18:40] well, the plan is to develop something for 8.10 that runs on these little netbooks [18:41] currently we only have a mobile specific image [18:41] * ogra is trying to change that [18:44] * MeniShevitz noticed that, thought it ought to be a typo [18:46] thanks ogra... do you have a VIA machine too? [18:47] nope, i'm currently having only the father of all subnotebooks in three HW versions ... [18:47] the classmate PC [18:47] davidm: ping I hear you need psb video drivers for the next gen Ubuntu. [18:48] indeed that has no via HW [18:48] cool... i'm looking for a fellow via user to mooch some knowledge from :) [18:50] GrueMaster, yes, we need drivers for Linux 2.6.26 and X 1.5 [18:50] I'll need some help creating a development environment if you aren't using MIC for this. [18:51] MeniShevitz, what i plan to have is something thats generic enough to run on all x86 compatible netbooks (either as separate image or as ubuntu metapackage that you can install on top of a normal mobile install) [18:52] that will be sweet... heck, i even got os x leopard to run on my little bugger :) [18:53] though it was a pointless ride with no qe/ci and at 800x480 :P [18:53] you could try my classmate image, but that has lots and lots of hardcoded and machine specific stuff in it [18:53] nah, i'm not l33t enough [18:54] davidm, one critical bug solved, three to go btw ... just building an image with the fix [18:54] very very cool [18:55] Once I get a dev environment, it should only take a few minutes to build the driver packages, assuming a clean compile. [18:55] by the by looking forward to catching up next week in Lexington. Good to have everyone in one place [18:57] yeah [19:00] davidm, the fridge is stocked [19:00] Way cool, thanks, looking forward to catching up with everyone. [19:01] * ogra has so much to learn about the lexington way things work ... [19:01] and i'm eager to :) === asac_ is now known as asac [19:24] anybody managed to install the Gigabyte U60 drivers under 8.04? [19:27] i've got some .ko files for the vga adapter from the official site, but they come with no instructions [19:27] :( [19:28] adding them to the kernel is like gambling ... unless you know they are exactly for the abi version used in the kernel you run [19:29] in other words - let the big boys get them in the cvs meni, right? [19:29] :) [19:30] the wibrain drivers work btw, but they poop up the screen output [19:31] MeniShevitz: If you can find the VCS repo for the drivers, and file a bug, there's a chance the kernel team might merge them. [19:32] if i knew what a vcs is... >< you guys are making me feel dumb! ;) [19:32] Version Control System: for drivers, probably a git repository. [19:33] oh thanks... not really, i guess one would have to contact Gigabyte for that [19:34] Depends on the manufacturer: some companies have public VCS, some don't. When it's public, the kernel team is usually willing to handle the coordination. When it's private, it's more complicated. [19:36] hmmm... will a link to the download site help, or is that just tossing work at unsuspecting folks? === robr_ is now known as robr [19:40] yeah, thought so... [19:40] Link to binary download isn't so useful, as it's hard to integrate. [19:41] hmmm... have'nt really seen anything else on the site [19:42] it's supposed to be for 7.10 though so i guess no go [19:42] i haven't even been able to get the touch screen working:/ [19:43] is there a good guide on xorg.conf proper usage? [19:44] * ogra would do mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.old and try if xorg cant detect it itself :) [19:45] oohhhhhhhh... thanks! doing it right now:) [19:45] with 80% of the drivers that works better than putting up an xorg.conf [19:45] but wont give you keyboard settings [19:45] So what needs to happen for me to build an intrepid menlow development environment under Hardy? Can I take a daily Hardy snapshot and just change the source.list* to point to intrepid and apt-get update? [19:45] or touchscreen tweaks (claibration) [19:46] restarting ex... [19:46] *x [19:46] no go... and screen res is too low to use the calib util:/ [19:48] GrueMaster: The images use unionfs, which may not track the development version well. [19:49] There are two options: one is to do as you've described, although this will likely break at some point, and you'll have to refresh. [19:50] persia: ? I know that the img files use unionfs. What I'm asking is if I can use MIC to create an image or at least a Hardy image then update the repository. [19:50] The other would be to do a debootstrap install of lpia, although the ubuntu-mobile meta images are likely still broken for intrepid. [19:50] GrueMaster: You ought be able to do so. [19:51] MeniShevitz, well, was worth a try [19:51] Ok. [19:51] Let me see what I can do and post back after lunch. [19:51] GrueMaster: If you do use MIC, I recommend changing sources.list in your project, adn updating there, rather than on the image. [19:52] ok. That's where I do the builds anyways. [19:52] At the project level, not the target. [19:52] Oh. That works. [19:53] thanks ogra :) [19:54] out of default repos, what's the recommended unichrome flavor? [19:55] gonna try and force use the correct screen via xorg.conf [19:57] openchrome [19:57] nicely called via as driver in xorg.conf :) happy confusion [19:58] meh... tried uni first. black screen:| [19:59] wow... i think i've found the problem... my xconf Device section: [19:59] Section "Device" [19:59] Identifier "configured video device" [20:00] EndSection [20:00] no via no nothing:| [20:00] what's the missing line? [20:00] no, thats the default way in ubuntu now [20:01] oh. [20:01] darn... VIA's so darn touchy [20:01] so there is nothing missing ... but indeed you cn add lines as you like, they will then be used [20:02] so whats xactly your prob ? only the resolution ? [20:04] if so, that might not be graphics driver related but rather be the display not reporting its capabilities [20:05] well, using the wibrain driver the resolution is wrong [20:05] using any driver from the repos gives me a black screen [20:05] i hear it all working [20:05] but output goes to vga port [20:05] :/ [20:05] how can i force output to lcd? if it's not too much [20:06] xrandr wuld be an option, but you cant get the info you need for that without having X running [20:06] brb, gonna hook it up to some screen and remove uni/openchrome [20:06] for some reason apt-get remove unichrome openchrome din't work [20:07] guess super cow powers don't always cut it:) [20:09] well, even super cows need the right address to get somewhere [20:10] xserver-xorg-video-openchrome and xserver-xorg-video-unichrome is what you want ;) [20:14] lol, figured so :) [20:14] did it the hard way already though... downloading the wibrain driver now [20:15] * MeniShevitz wonders atype how sweet it would be to have freelance driver dudes swarm the osx86 project [20:17] btw, the wibrain drivers are from google code, so there shouldn't be much trouble incorporating 'em :) [20:20] they're the best v700 drivers for 800x480 screens i found so far, i.e, only working ones i could cope with :) [20:21] but they're preconfigured to work with a 1024x600 panel, which gives slight calibration errors on all resolutions [20:21] svn checkout http://wibrain-b1l.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ wibrain-b1l-read-only [20:21] ^^^ this is the VCS address persia was talking about [20:22] ohhhhh cool :) where do i send it again? [20:22] whom do i inform? === asac__ is now known as asac [20:22] * MeniShevitz is too unix dumb to do the actual work himself [20:22] MeniShevitz: You'd file a bug asking for inclusion. If it's userspace, and you need a new app, file it against "ubuntu", and add the "needs-packaging" tag. [20:23] if it7s kernelspace, file it against the "linux" source package (in ubuntu). [20:23] * persia knows nothing about wiibrain, and is just giving generic advice [20:24] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug [20:24] MeniShevitz, ^^^^ [20:25] thanks, i don't need more than generic advice i think === robr_ is now known as robr [20:26] ok, now it's time to show how daft i really am... adding a tag is just writing "needs-packaging", right? [20:27] MeniShevitz: After you create the bug, there should be a link to "Edit Description/tags", and from there you can add the tag. [20:27] Alternately, if you use the complicated bug filing form, you can do it directly. [20:27] cool thanks... again, sorry for being a nag :) [20:28] launchpad is not easy in the beginning [20:29] so dont worry, we all were where you are atm ;) [20:29] No worries. We all have to start somewhere, and getting support for more devices is key to market domination :) [20:30] :))) [20:30] and market domination is key to world domination !!! [20:30] ;) [20:30] * persia doesn't want to rule the world: too much work. I only want root on all the computers in the world. [20:31] i didnt say anything about rulig [20:31] :) [20:31] *ruling [20:33] lol@rooting.globe [20:34] submitted:) [20:34] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/247700 [20:34] Launchpad bug 247700 in ubuntu "A display driver for v700 via umpcs" [Undecided,New] [20:35] ogra: If you're not going to rule it, what do you do with the world once you've taken it over? Give it back and try again tomorrow night? [20:37] persia, i trust the people to be able t rule themselves :) [20:39] they just should make sure they dont mess it up ... i would only intervene here and there [20:39] ## at line start ignores it right? [20:40] you trust people... that's your problem right there:) [20:40] one of them is enough [20:40] persia: get root on all computers ... all you need is to hardcode your pubkey in openssh and make it added to the minimal seed, doesn't sound that hard :) [20:40] stgraber: Nah. I just have to upload something in the minimal seed. Then everyone executes my code. [20:41] openssh can be defeated by firewalls. [20:41] MeniShevitz, well, you either trust people or have to do the work yourself ... [20:41] i'm lazy thats why i'm a developer :) [20:42] (the lazyer you are the better you are suited to be a programmer ... if work annoys you you will start to write a program to do it for you ;) ) [20:42] :) i'm lazy and distrustful... it's great to be me. [20:43] ogra: hmm, what would it be if you had to do all the work :) you already get only a few hours of sleep each day or two ... we'd need at least 50 hours days to do the work :) [20:44] well, world domination .... you could just declare 50h days :) [20:44] 42 fits better with other people's schedules, plus it means that after a two-day weekend, there's only two days left each week on which one need to focus one's laziness [20:44] metric days - like that wasn't tried before:P [20:45] and in the end its even the answer t everything :) [20:45] *to [20:45] but wouldn't a day stay a day, just divided differently? [20:47] just a day with more dark moments ... [20:47] anyway i'm back at square one with the wiibrain driver [20:48] open a terminal in X and type in xrandr [20:48] it shouold drop you a list of devices and a list of modes for each of them [20:49] sweet, got the hang i think :) [20:49] now to force xorg.conf... [20:49] no [20:50] look what xrandr reports as modes ? [20:50] one of tehm should have a * next to it [20:50] thats the current one [20:50] it shows 640*480 up to 1024*600 [20:51] which one is used ? [20:51] the one i need is 848*480, it ALMOST fits [20:51] 848 ? [20:52] yups. 800 shows too low [20:52] leaves a 20% black bar at the top, and the bottom part won't show:/ [20:52] is 848 listed ? [20:52] 848! Not 852? [20:52] * persia hasn't heard of 848x480 before [20:54] it has both, but 852 is 4 more pixels i don't see :P [20:54] so is any of the modes you want listed by xrandr ? [20:54] trying to set Server Layout to Default Monitor instead of the costume wiibrain screen [20:54] it's listed, but when used it's miscalibrated [20:55] hmm [20:55] run vidtune :) [20:55] errr [20:55] xvidtune [20:56] it allows you to adjust the screen and will generate you a modeline for xorg.conf [20:56] one mo'... trying Default Screen first... :) [20:56] seems to be doing the trick... [20:56] (i'm talking noobspeech aren't i?:x) [20:57] all fine, dont worry :) [20:58] Yeeeeeeepeeeeeeee! :D [20:58] :) [20:58] Acceleration seems to be working, video ain't as jittery :D [20:58] now to make it 1024x600 downscaled to 800x480 [20:58] the keyboard of the device looks almost usably big [20:59] it's a sweet if weak machine... [20:59] guess xubuntu would've been the better choice but i picked "classic" :) [21:00] real cheap too [21:00] does it do GL ? [21:01] nah... not with the wibrain driver [21:01] and with the via driver i get colored lines which slowly (within 4 seconds) cover the monitor rendering it white and scaring me with the feel it might break for good [21:02] btw, have you checked my bug report? i'm kinda jittery about it, hoping i haven't cocked it :) [21:04] where can i find example xorg.confs? googling for it in the background [21:04] probably on the forums [21:05] though they might rather be for eeePCs or some such [21:05] if only i remembered my ubuntu forums pass :) [21:05] hmmm... hopefully it's an x-server thing and not driver dependent [21:09] damn... i wasn't as bright as i thought [21:09] Default Monitor pointed back to vesa driver:/ [21:11] all unhatched chickens counted :P [21:30] wow...i think i heard x cry :| [21:31] MeniShevitz: You can usually quiet it by muting the inputs on your sound card :) [21:35] :D [21:36] the cry came from the very heart of x, it was not input insofar as it was pure emotion, kindled in the machine for the first time, in a machine for the first time, by my inane abuse [21:36] can you get it starting with the driver from google ? [21:37] :) [21:38] could, and will be able to again soon, even if it means a reinstall :| [21:39] do that ... if its off xvidtune should help to kick it in place [21:40] yeah... only figured xvidtune had nothing to do with xvid when it was too late O_o [21:40] sooooo my bad [21:40] btw, the wibrain driver is kinda messy in that that it adds modelines for any possible res [21:41] to xorg.conf [21:56] hmmm... xvidtune doesn't seem to really have any effect [21:56] can i specify for which screen? [21:57] need it run sudo? [22:01] you need to click the test button :) [22:01] after every change [22:01] (or apply, but test is safer, that reverts after some seconds) [22:06] i got it but test has no result:( [22:07] did you change any values ? [22:07] you need to change values and then click test [22:15] yeah of course [22:23] * MeniShevitz dislikes VIA