| Volans | Hi all | 14:48 |
|---|---|---|
| newz2000 | howdy | 14:49 |
| melat0nin | hi-ho | 14:54 |
| newz2000 | just posted a web developer job to the employment page if anyone is interested | 14:55 |
| newz2000 | (work from home) | 14:55 |
| melat0nin | o.O | 14:55 |
| newz2000 | also there's a graphic designer job open, London based | 14:56 |
| Volans | QA Engineer? | 14:56 |
| newz2000 | yeah, one of those too. Quality Assurance | 14:56 |
| melat0nin | lol | 14:56 |
| melat0nin | i can't find the jobs page on ubuntu.com | 14:56 |
| melat0nin | ironically enough | 14:56 |
| newz2000 | www.ubuntu.com/employment | 14:56 |
| newz2000 | (link is at the very bottom) | 14:56 |
| melat0nin | oh right, sorry :x | 14:57 |
| melat0nin | nice job | 14:57 |
| melat0nin | wish i had the expertise :) | 14:57 |
| Volans | newz2000: you maintain also the launchpad site? | 14:59 |
| newz2000 | no, separate team | 15:00 |
| Volans | ah ok, because on edge there is a big problem with tabs | 15:00 |
| newz2000 | I'd report it as a bug | 15:00 |
| Volans | https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu | 15:01 |
| Volans | for example | 15:01 |
| boredandblogging | isn't edge for people who are LP beta testers? | 15:01 |
| Volans | maybe is already signaled, I don't have already check | 15:01 |
| melat0nin | newz2000: i wasn't sure if it's really a 'bug', but is it a good idea to have launchpad show people's email addresses in plan text? tis a spammer's dream | 15:01 |
| Volans | melat0nin: the email address is showed only after login | 15:01 |
| Volans | melat0nin: the jabber contact is plain text, but readable from bots | 15:02 |
| melat0nin | Volans: d'oh you're right | 15:02 |
| melat0nin | sorry ;) | 15:02 |
| newz2000 | well, you're free to raise any concern as a bug | 15:03 |
| newz2000 | let the developers decide | 15:03 |
| newz2000 | but I'm pretty sure they'll ignore it, since they also list gpg keys which clearly expose email addresses | 15:03 |
| melat0nin | nah it's fine, i didn't think to check what it showed when not logged in. I'm fine with other members seeing my addy :) | 15:03 |
| melat0nin | newz2000: oh yeah | 15:03 |
| melat0nin | hmm | 15:03 |
| melat0nin | that's not ideal | 15:04 |
| melat0nin | (imho) | 15:04 |
| newz2000 | if you put your key on a server you really can't avoid the email getting shown. It's like getting listed in the telephone book. http://pgp.cs.uu.nl/doc/top_1000.html for example. | 15:06 |
| newz2000 | (key server I mean) | 15:06 |
| melat0nin | yeah | 15:07 |
| melat0nin | might make a melat0nin mail for this kind of thing, in that case | 15:07 |
| melat0nin | does that involve creating a new key or can the addy just be changed? (i'm new to pgp) | 15:07 |
| newz2000 | You can add a new email address to your key but I don't know if you can remove one. You'll have to ask around. | 15:08 |
| melat0nin | okay will have a dig | 15:08 |
| newz2000 | but if you've already published it I don't suspect there's a huge benefit to unpublishing it at this point. Better to invest energy in a good spam blocker. :-/ | 15:09 |
| melat0nin | spose | 15:09 |
| melat0nin | gmail does a good job, can't complain | 15:09 |
| newz2000 | yeah | 15:09 |
| newz2000 | ok, question for the day... do you like or dislike creating fixed width sites (as opposed to fluid or elastic sites)? | 15:09 |
| melat0nin | i like fixed | 15:10 |
| Volans | I don't like... I prefer % margin to the right and left | 15:10 |
| melat0nin | e.g. www.concernedcitizen.co.uk (my modded brainstorm site) | 15:10 |
| newz2000 | and why do you like fixed width or fluid layouts? | 15:12 |
| melat0nin | fixed width = more control. not great with all the different sizes of monitors today, though | 15:12 |
| Volans | fluid: more adaptable to all monitors from 10'' to apple's mega screens ;) (if the content is made in order to do that avoiding too much overlapping when reduced in size) | 15:15 |
| Volans | i prefer the % margins, like 4% for examples | 15:15 |
| newz2000 | Volans: how wide is your web browser window typically? | 15:15 |
| melat0nin | trouble is some sites look rubbish with massive amounts of whitespace | 15:15 |
| Volans | alt+f10 ;) | 15:15 |
| newz2000 | maximized? | 15:16 |
| newz2000 | how wide in pixels? (if maximized, what's your screen res?) | 15:16 |
| Volans | newz2000: yeah, always and FF with only one toolbar, opened without borders with alltray, so having a 1280x800 laptop 15,4'' screen I maximize the vertical space | 15:17 |
| newz2000 | I think I need to ask a larger group of users. We've gotten two replies, one for and one against fixed width. | 15:18 |
| melat0nin | lol | 15:18 |
| Volans | newz2000: I have signaled the FF 1.5 release notes bug to asac that have replied now: bug 243064 | 15:18 |
| ubot3 | Malone bug 243064 in ubuntu-website "page "releasenotes 604" not found" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/243064 | 15:18 |
| newz2000 | Google Analytics says only 7-8% of the website's users have a screen width less than 1024px wide but I'm curious how many people with 1024px screens use full width windows | 15:19 |
| newz2000 | GA doesn't tell effective viewable screen size | 15:19 |
| melat0nin | newz2000: is it worth considering the layouts of other popular sites? | 15:19 |
| newz2000 | yes, I've looked and most major homepages are fixed width | 15:19 |
| Volans | newz2000: take in consideration also the future diffusion of mini laptop like eeepc, olpc etc... | 15:20 |
| newz2000 | I think that's because its easier to create an attractive visual presence with fixed width | 15:20 |
| newz2000 | Volans: exactly my thought process | 15:20 |
| Volans | with screens from 8 to 12'' | 15:20 |
| melat0nin | newz2000: i chose fixed width based on the BBC news website because it's the most used site in the UK apparently (and one of the most in the world) | 15:20 |
| newz2000 | I've noticed that a lot of the major tech firms still target an 800px width for their homepage | 15:20 |
| melat0nin | newz2000: "I think that's because its easier to create an attractive visual presence with fixed width" precisely | 15:20 |
| newz2000 | Volans: I've seen three types of small screen web browsers... | 15:21 |
| Volans | newz2000: I hate the very large empty margins in homepages... for example also ubuntu.com for me is too little now | 15:21 |
| newz2000 | on eeepc type pcs they have an 800px wide screen so normal browsing works | 15:21 |
| newz2000 | on iphones there's zooming so you get a normal experience | 15:22 |
| newz2000 | and then most mobile phones butcher all formatting regardless | 15:22 |
| melat0nin | newz2000: i'll be getting a MSI Wind in the next few days (10"/1024x600) so i'll let you know ;) | 15:22 |
| newz2000 | I need to get something small to start testing with. I've only played with them in the mall. | 15:22 |
| newz2000 | (but the msi is too big to be representative of small screen browsers imho) | 15:23 |
| melat0nin | Yeah me too, actually planning to buy this weekend/early next week tho | 15:23 |
| newz2000 | (still a cool device) | 15:23 |
| melat0nin | ah | 15:23 |
| melat0nin | okay | 15:23 |
| newz2000 | melat0nin: do you have children? | 15:23 |
| Volans | newz2000: as an example (I don't like the site) look at http://virgilio.alice.it/ and click on the image to the top-left to enlarge | 15:23 |
| melat0nin | is it worth considering devices with less than 1024W resolution? the eeepc701 is the only one (800 wide), all newer UMPCs are generally 1024 or higher | 15:23 |
| melat0nin | newz2000: no, i'm 22 :) | 15:24 |
| newz2000 | ok. I'm curious if webkinz works on those small notebooks. considering getting one for my son. :-) | 15:24 |
| newz2000 | Volans: yes, it targets 800px wide | 15:24 |
| newz2000 | but I think they've gone overboard | 15:24 |
| Volans | newz2000: nobody can say nothing if you made a 1000px fixed width site (24px are for the scrolling bar) | 15:24 |
| melat0nin | i don't like those buttons... i would have serious doubts about how many normal web users make use of them | 15:24 |
| newz2000 | Volans: eeepc users would say something | 15:25 |
| Volans | eheheh | 15:25 |
| Volans | but I still prefer fluid | 15:25 |
| newz2000 | it would annoy me too because I never keep my browser window > than 950px wide | 15:25 |
| melat0nin | newz2000: how many 701 owners are there? Is it worth catering for a pretty tiny market? | 15:25 |
| Volans | we ha made fluid the ubuntu-it sites | 15:25 |
| newz2000 | depends on the site... | 15:25 |
| melat0nin | esp since the 701 is now obsolete and being replaced by >=1024px netbooks | 15:26 |
| newz2000 | for ubuntu.com maybe not, I doubt it attracts many mobile users | 15:26 |
| newz2000 | but 800px wide is huge for mobile devices and they are growing more and more common | 15:26 |
| melat0nin | perhaps something like 900? gives minimum cut-off for 800W devices | 15:26 |
| newz2000 | too much cut off. 850 is max, and 800 is probably better | 15:26 |
| newz2000 | that italian site is 750 which is too narrow | 15:27 |
| Volans | newz2000: and made a 500px or so version of the site for mobiles (wap/umts) and redirect there the 800px users? | 15:27 |
| melat0nin | hmm it's a difficult one | 15:27 |
| newz2000 | I won't target anything smaller than 800px wide | 15:28 |
| Volans | newz2000: and for wap/umts/ or similar? | 15:28 |
| newz2000 | I've been thinking about a layout that expands not by stretching content area but instead restacking the layout to optimize for less scrolling on wideer screens | 15:28 |
| newz2000 | Volans: for ubuntu.com I don't think it's a target user | 15:28 |
| Volans | newz2000: very good idea the first! for target users... maybe ubuntu.com not, but wiki and forum yes | 15:29 |
| Volans | newz2000: apple use a 980px apparently fixed | 15:42 |
| Volans | width | 15:42 |
| newz2000 | yeah, MS is 934 | 15:42 |
| newz2000 | oracle is fluid | 15:43 |
| newz2000 | sun, redhat, ubuntu are fixed | 15:43 |
| Volans | redhat is 750.... too small | 15:43 |
| newz2000 | I agree | 15:43 |
| newz2000 | I wonder how many people think Ubuntu is too wide | 15:44 |
| Volans | opensuse is fullpage fluid but with minimun width at about 800 | 15:45 |
| newz2000 | not the homepage | 15:45 |
| newz2000 | which imho is the only page on the site that looks nice | 15:46 |
| Volans | yeah, I mean the internal pages | 15:46 |
| newz2000 | novell uses 924px fixed | 15:46 |
| Volans | fedora is fluid 18px fixed margin, very unlike when you resize the page due to a big image that exit on the right | 15:48 |
| newz2000 | oh, they've improved their site recently | 15:48 |
| newz2000 | nice job | 15:48 |
| Volans | newz2000: there are plan to put the ubuntu wiki on a more "web 2.0" layout? | 15:49 |
| newz2000 | when we get something good we'll harmonize things | 15:49 |
| newz2000 | assuming that comes after the upgrade to 1.6 | 15:49 |
| Volans | ok I know that sysadmins are working on that | 15:50 |
| newz2000 | fedora kind of does what I mentioned, optimize for less scrolling | 15:50 |
| newz2000 | see here: http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora | 15:50 |
| newz2000 | if you widen that page you get three columns, if you shrink it two and then one | 15:51 |
| newz2000 | (in the blue boxes) | 15:51 |
| newz2000 | its a little distracting, but maybe its just the contrasty black right border | 15:51 |
| Volans | is a simple <ul> but yes, good choice | 15:51 |
| newz2000 | I really like their logo since they redid it | 15:52 |
| Volans | I have an hat with that logo :) | 15:52 |
| newz2000 | well, I don't like it enough to wear it around. :-) | 15:52 |
| newz2000 | (might send the wrong message) | 15:53 |
| Volans | I went to a fedora open day here in Rome and they give it and other gadgets | 15:53 |
| Volans | I went to see how they organised their fedora 9 release party | 15:53 |
| Volans | sun is 780px fixed | 15:57 |
| Volans | newz2000: for a bur related to the rendering problem of the hardy release day ( see http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13852773/Ubuntu%20Homepage%20AS.PNG ) I can mark it as fix released? | 16:21 |
| newz2000 | yes, its resolved | 16:23 |
| Volans | and newz2000 perhaps you are interested in reply to the bug 221364 ;) | 16:24 |
| ubot3 | Malone bug 221364 in ubuntu "Ubuntu webiste not easily accessible in different languages" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221364 | 16:24 |
| Volans | s/interested in/interested to/ | 16:24 |
| newz2000 | sure, I can do that | 16:24 |
| Volans | newz2000: there is a "low" bug confirmed for the wiki footer... but it is a 2006 bug ;) | 16:51 |
| newz2000 | confirmed? Interesting. what #? | 16:51 |
| Volans | bug 47051 already assigned to you ;) | 16:52 |
| ubot3 | Malone bug 47051 in ubuntu-website ""Credits" and "Site Map" links on Edubuntu wiki are broken" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/47051 | 16:52 |
| Volans | credits is correct, but sitemap is already broken | 16:52 |
| newz2000 | go ahead and assign it to me and later today I'll see how difficult to resolve. I dont' think I have edit access to those atm. | 16:53 |
| Volans | is already assigned to you, I have replied, hoping this will send you a notification | 16:54 |
| newz2000 | ok | 16:54 |
| Volans | newz2000: bugs related to servers ip are for the sysadmins, how to pass the bug to their team/project' | 17:22 |
| Volans | ? | 17:22 |
| newz2000 | I think their team is canonical-sysadmin | 17:22 |
| Volans | so I assign it to them? | 17:23 |
| newz2000 | are they old? | 17:24 |
| Volans | is only one, I have assigned it to them... :) some months ago | 17:25 |
| Volans | for the thai mirror | 17:25 |
| newz2000 | you are killing those bugs Volans. :-) | 17:26 |
| Volans | ahahah | 17:26 |
| Volans | newz2000: this bug is old, but make sense for every develop version of Ubuntu. the Ubuntu+1 version: bug 195987 | 17:41 |
| ubot3 | Malone bug 195987 in ubuntu-website "Create placeholder for 8.04 release notes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195987 | 17:41 |
| Volans | maybe discuss it directly with asac ;) | 17:44 |
| newz2000 | that is a good idea | 17:44 |
| newz2000 | it kind of exists now actually, because the redirect's decission loop will fall through and leave you on the page listing all of the release notes | 17:45 |
| newz2000 | if(8.04) redirect to ./8.04; if (7.10) redirect to ./7.10; ... | 17:45 |
| Volans | or you can make a http://www.ubuntu.com/download/releasenotes/+1 page with temporary release notes or an alert that the release notes will be published only after the official release | 17:46 |
| Volans | and redirect there every if(>latestrelease) | 17:46 |
| Volans | (obviously depends on the code, how the wrapper is made) | 17:47 |
| Volans | I have to go... bye bye | 18:56 |
| newz2000 | ok, ttyl Volans | 18:56 |
| pierrelourens | hello | 18:56 |
| newz2000 | hey pierre | 18:56 |
| Volans | Hi pierrelourens, bye bye see you | 18:57 |
| pierrelourens | see ya | 18:57 |
| pierrelourens | how are you matt | 18:57 |
| newz2000 | pretty good here so far. :-) and you? | 18:58 |
| pierrelourens | pretty good. just reminded why I left Apple... as my stepdad is having tons of trouble updating his iPod Touch. | 18:58 |
| pierrelourens | and catching up on the mailing list. been busy lately :/ | 18:59 |
| newz2000 | the mailing list has slowed way down this week | 19:00 |
| BinaryDigits | I've been away for work, that's my only reason :) | 19:00 |
| pierrelourens | well there's always an initial surge and then it slows down | 19:01 |
| newz2000 | yeah, that's ok with me | 19:01 |
| newz2000 | though I would like to hear if anyone is working on the feature tour project | 19:01 |
| pierrelourens | I'd rather it be slow than overwhelming | 19:01 |
| pierrelourens | :) | 19:01 |
| BinaryDigits | yep me too | 19:02 |
| newz2000 | I added some code to the ubuntu.com website that will track when people use the navigation | 19:04 |
| newz2000 | so I can run reports starting next week to see if anyone uses the nav bars | 19:04 |
| newz2000 | user studies indicate global nav is one of the less effective navigation techniques because people tend to ignore them | 19:04 |
| BinaryDigits | interesting | 19:05 |
| pierrelourens | I sure don't use it... but then again, I mostly just type the URL I need from memory | 19:05 |
| newz2000 | yes, but imagine this... you've just bought a new thingamajig and plugged it into your pc | 19:05 |
| newz2000 | nothing happens | 19:05 |
| newz2000 | so what do you do? | 19:05 |
| BinaryDigits | google :) | 19:06 |
| BinaryDigits | home page | 19:06 |
| newz2000 | homepage? | 19:06 |
| pierrelourens | Google / Ubuntu forums | 19:06 |
| BinaryDigits | or if we do it right... the new ubuntu start page would have it already | 19:06 |
| BinaryDigits | and people use that | 19:06 |
| pierrelourens | ding ding ding | 19:07 |
| BinaryDigits | w00t | 19:07 |
| newz2000 | :-) | 19:07 |
| pierrelourens | Although, I did keep the ubuntu start page as my home page so I can generate canonical a little more money from google searches | 19:07 |
| pierrelourens | hah | 19:07 |
| BinaryDigits | I'm going to make a hand drawing on my ideas | 19:07 |
| BinaryDigits | then i'll scan it | 19:07 |
| newz2000 | go for it | 19:07 |
| newz2000 | that's how I usually work too... I've created my own graph paper in inkscape and print it out and draw on it | 19:08 |
| pierrelourens | i want the dot grid book : http://www.creativesoutfitter.com/Products/Dot-Grid-Book/9 | 19:08 |
| newz2000 | http://www.bearfruit.org/files/gnome-bday-concepts.png | 19:09 |
| BinaryDigits | i have a big sketchbook that i can use. I'm going to see if my scanner works in ubuntu actually, i have it set up on my mac already.... hmm | 19:09 |
| newz2000 | scan, digital camera, whatever works | 19:09 |
| pierrelourens | BinaryDigits, how long have you been using ubuntu? | 19:09 |
| BinaryDigits | that looks nifty newz | 19:09 |
| newz2000 | that was for the gnome bday homepage last year | 19:09 |
| pierrelourens | very detailed ;) | 19:10 |
| BinaryDigits | pierrelourens: off and on for about 3-4 years. I started with Ubuntu as my main desktop after college on my custom pc... then went to Windows for a while due to work, and then decided to go towards mac recently since I wnated the macbook pro. I always did have a spare pc with ubuntu however, so if i wanted to play i had it available | 19:10 |
| BinaryDigits | now i've put it on my Dell work laptop, as dual boot, so I can use it when I'm home or whatever | 19:11 |
| pierrelourens | Gotcha. I like mac's build quality, one of the reasons i bought my macbook | 19:11 |
| BinaryDigits | yep, true, aesthetics was a big seller for me sadly hehe | 19:12 |
| pierrelourens | haha. completely understandable. | 19:12 |
| pierrelourens | Although, I still yearn to build a custom, completely native Linux PC | 19:12 |
| BinaryDigits | but I like that I know all 3 OS's and can use them interchangeably | 19:12 |
| BinaryDigits | you should, it's great :) | 19:12 |
| pierrelourens | Well, the only thing I don't have working great w/ my macbook is my MX revolution :( | 19:13 |
| BinaryDigits | For my old custom one i had to recompile the kernel to get my sound working, and it was a great feeling of accomplishment when I did | 19:13 |
| newz2000 | yuck, I hated the bad ol' days | 19:13 |
| pierrelourens | newz2000, mm? | 19:13 |
| newz2000 | of compiling kernels | 19:14 |
| newz2000 | and etc | 19:14 |
| pierrelourens | I haven't used Windows since about 2005 | 19:14 |
| pierrelourens | I never had that experience. | 19:14 |
| pierrelourens | I'm a young'un though.. | 19:14 |
| newz2000 | pierrelourens: how old are you? | 19:14 |
| pierrelourens | 16. | 19:14 |
| newz2000 | have you met ryanakca, the kubuntu webmaster? | 19:14 |
| BinaryDigits | oh wow, i feel old hehe | 19:14 |
| newz2000 | pierrelourens: I think he's about your same age | 19:15 |
| pierrelourens | BinaryDigits, if it makes you feel any better, I feel older/crankier than most of my peers. Not to mention embarrassed because of my generation... | 19:15 |
| pierrelourens | newz2000, No, I haven't met him.. but I'll look into it :) | 19:15 |
| newz2000 | if you had to be 25+ to help out Ubuntu we'd be half the OS we are now. | 19:16 |
| BinaryDigits | pierrelourens: really? how come? | 19:16 |
| pierrelourens | Well, thats the thing. Because Ubuntu is open to youth, that's where we go... because there is no way for me to be involved with such a great community otherwise. | 19:16 |
| BinaryDigits | that's awesome :) | 19:17 |
| pierrelourens | BinaryDigits, If only you came to my high school for a single day. There's a reason I'm very, very picky about my friends. | 19:17 |
| BinaryDigits | are they clique-y? | 19:17 |
| pierrelourens | Most of them are yuppies whose soccer moms are completely unaware of their drug use. | 19:18 |
| pierrelourens | I live in Raleigh, NC...which is the typical suburbia. It's not very diverse. | 19:19 |
| BinaryDigits | oh yea, well you find that alot of places | 19:20 |
| BinaryDigits | I'm originally from New York..I grew up near Queens, but on Long Island, where you get that alot | 19:20 |
| pierrelourens | Yup. Oh well :). That's what the internet is for. | 19:20 |
| pierrelourens | And there are always pockets of interesting people. | 19:21 |
| pierrelourens | BinaryDigits, my girlfriend's dad grew up in brooklyn and her aunts currently live in Queens. | 19:21 |
| BinaryDigits | yep true | 19:21 |
| BinaryDigits | ah cool :) | 19:22 |
| pierrelourens | how's that sketch going? | 19:22 |
| BinaryDigits | i'm not doing it right now, getting ready for the gym. I will do it when I get back. I just got home from work about an hour ago :) | 19:22 |
| BinaryDigits | I'll go do that now actually. See you gents in a bit! | 19:23 |
| pierrelourens | take it easy | 19:24 |
| pierrelourens | :) | 19:24 |
| pierrelourens | newz2000, do you prefer gnome or kde? | 19:37 |
| newz2000 | gnome. | 19:37 |
| newz2000 | nothing against kde just not had much opportunity to use it | 19:37 |
| pierrelourens | same here. just curious :) | 19:38 |
| * ryanakca is back after a week away | 23:09 | |
| newz2000 | hey ryanakca | 23:09 |
| ryanakca | woah, lovely away log... | 23:10 |
| * newz2000 goes fishing... | 23:16 | |
| ryanakca | enjoy | 23:28 |
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