[04:58] <Malinthe> launchpad login help. getting error 'This account cannot be used' :(
[04:58] <mwhudson> uh oh
[04:59] <mwhudson> a few people had this problem, but i was fairly sure that we had it fixed
[04:59] <Malinthe> ah
[04:59] <mwhudson> Malinthe: when did you last successfully use the account?
[04:59] <Malinthe> mwhudson: can't remember for sure. few weeks i guess. i do translating of wordpress there.
[05:00] <mwhudson> hm
[05:01] <Malinthe> any way to fix?
[05:03] <mwhudson> Malinthe: yes, but i don't know what exactly :/
[05:03] <Malinthe> ah
[05:04] <Malinthe> i couldn't do any translations for some time now :(
[08:50] <mantiena> hi all
[08:51] <mantiena> are any launchpad developers alive ?
[08:51] <lifeless> no
[08:51] <lifeless> they all caught pneumonia
[08:51] <mantiena> :(((((((
[08:52] <mantiena> it's a pity
[08:52] <lifeless> perhaps you had some question to ask
[08:53] <mantiena> yes, my question is: When developers of other distros, with use launchpad, will be able to register new milestones or new releases (series) ?
[08:56] <mantiena> I'm talking about bug #211223
[09:06] <mantiena> my question is: When developers of other distros, which use launchpad, will be able to register new milestones or new releases (series) ?
[09:13] <mantiena> Why at bottom of https://launchpad.net/baltix I see text "Baltix GNU/Linux does not use Launchpad." ? Baltix uses launchpad for bugs, for blueprints and for answers, previously I had an ability to check some checkboxes in distribution details, but now there are checkbox'es about bugs and answers usage :(
[09:14] <mantiena> now there are *no* checkboxes
[09:17] <lifeless> BjornT: ^
[09:17] <lifeless> mantiena: BjornT is the bug team leader and may be able to help
[09:18] <mantiena> lifeless: thanks for info
[09:19] <mantiena> BjornT: so, should I report another bug agains launchpad or soyuz or you have enough unfixed bugreports already ? ;)
[09:22] <Hobbsee> mantiena: report away, but there's no guarentee about when it'll get fixed :)
[09:22] <BjornT> mantiena: i think you should report a bug. i'm not responsible for that page, and i don't what's going on there. but it's definitely odd that there's a checkbox for blueprints, but not anything else
[09:28] <mantiena> Some time ago (in 2006 and 2007) there were other checkboxes, but they disappeared someday in this year...
[09:32] <Hobbsee> mantiena: they've been changing the UI all over the place.
[10:02] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[10:02] <jtv> Hey mpt!
[10:03] <mpt> hey hey
[10:03] <mpt> jtv, I have some changes to the translation page I think you'll like
[10:04] <jtv> mpt: finally!  It's 3D now?
[10:04] <jtv> mpt: but seriously, tell me, tell me!
[10:06] <mpt> The "Add more lines" button is smaller and next to the line instead of underneath
[10:06] <mpt> and clicking it actually focuses the field
[10:06] <mpt> This is all beuno's work
[10:20] <Laibsch> ping mwhudson about import of gnucash from tar-ball
[10:30] <jtv> mpt: I think a power outage broke my connection for a while...  last I saw from you was "this is all beuno's work."
[10:31] <Spads> jtv: last we saw from him as well
[10:31] <wgrant> Hrmm.
[10:31] <wgrant> I can see that edge tab graphical glitch now, too
[10:31] <wgrant> Except worse than the other report.
[10:32] <jtv> Spads: has anyone called the police?
[10:32] <jtv> Spads: hi, btw  :)
[10:34] <Spads> hehe, howdy jtv 
[10:38]  * wgrant mumbles something about making pages less useful and burying them a few levels deeper.
[10:39] <mpt> wgrant, which glitch?
[10:40] <wgrant> mpt: +packages
[10:40] <wgrant> The fix for timeouts was to reduce what's on the page without any way to get the rest.
[10:41] <wgrant> (and somebody capitalised 'most')
[10:41] <wgrant> And it's hidden beneath the third or fourth level of tabs.
[10:41] <Hobbsee> ah yes, that's like the queue page.
[10:42] <wgrant> And one of the rows of tabs is inexplicably below a subheading.
[10:42] <wgrant> Which is smaller than the one below the lower set of tabs.
[10:42] <wgrant> And wastes spafce.
[10:42] <wgrant> s/f//
[10:43] <wgrant> And the Distribution homepage has a strange set of [verb, verb, verb, noun] options.
[10:44] <wgrant> And Ubuntu also uses Launchpad for tracking packages.
[10:44] <wgrant> And Blueprints, for that matter.
[10:44] <wgrant> And why would I want to show announcements when I can already see them on the homepage? Or maybe it shows all of them?
[10:45] <wgrant> And what's this new 'Mirror admins' component?
[10:45] <wgrant> And is the registration date that important?
[10:46] <wgrant> And the 'Ask a question' button uses the generic add button.
[10:48] <wgrant> And why do these announcements have two distinct dates, and a single word sentence?
[10:48] <wgrant> And of course they were created for Ubuntu! I'm looking at the Ubuntu page, and it says Ubuntu everywhere!
[10:55]  * wgrant wonders if LP is focusing its death ray at him at the moment.
[11:15] <mpt> wgrant, my three best guesses at what URL you're referring to -- <https://edge.launchpad.net/+packages>, <https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+packages>, and <https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+packages> -- all 404. Sorry, you'll need to be more specific.
[11:37] <geser> mpt: I guess he meant https://edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/+packages
[11:40] <wgrant> mpt: Sorry, geser is right.
[11:40] <mpt> ugh
[11:40] <mpt> "Related Software:"
[11:41] <wgrant> Oh, you didn't design this?
[11:42] <mpt> I designed the overall structure, but not the headings
[11:45] <mpt> wgrant, I'm sorry, you'll need to report those bugs yourself, I really don't have time today
[11:46] <wgrant> mpt: I wasn't planning on you reporting them.
[11:49] <ltsampros> hello.
[11:50] <ltsampros> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/quack-el
[11:50] <ltsampros> in this context, what does "superseded in hardy" means ?
[11:50] <wgrant> ltsampros: It means that it is no longer published in Hardy.
[11:51] <wgrant> It should probably actually say 'Deleted in hardy[...]'
[11:51] <ltsampros> that was my point :)
[11:51] <ltsampros> but why was it deleted actually ? 
[11:51] <wgrant> I believe newer deletions will say that, but that one is too old.
[11:52] <wgrant> Checking...
[11:52] <wgrant> "(From Debian) RoQA; unmaintained, few users"
[11:52] <ltsampros> how did you see that ?
[11:53] <wgrant> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt, though for newer removals it is on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/quack-el/+publishinghistory.
[11:53] <ltsampros> aaa. okey.
[11:53] <ltsampros> thanks 
[11:54] <ltsampros> although it's a little bit akward that some info is not visible from launchpads interface :(
[11:54] <wgrant> It is for newer removals, I believe.
[11:54] <wgrant> But that one seems to have been performed before the new system came into place.
[11:55] <ltsampros> new system ? 
[11:55] <wgrant> The one that logs removals in Launchpad properly.
[11:55] <wgrant> But IANALPD.
[11:56] <ltsampros> ianalpd ? 
[11:56] <wgrant> I Am Not A Launchpad Developer.
[11:56] <ltsampros> lol
[11:58] <geser> wgrant: gets removals.txt still updated or are new removals now only logged in LP?
[11:58] <wgrant> ltsampros: See https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24/+publishinghistory, for example.
[11:59] <wgrant> ltsampros: Note that the Intrepid entry is marked Deleted, and has a comment inside it.
[11:59] <wgrant> geser: It looks like it's just LP, unfortunately.
[12:00] <wgrant> I did see a bug on that months ago.
[14:07] <pep> good afternoon
[14:14] <pep> how do you delete projects?
[14:19] <cody-somerville> pep: You have to file a request on launchpad.
[14:20] <pep> cody-somerville: ah ok.. well I filed a question over a week ago, I was wondering if it was the right procedure
[14:20] <pep> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/38202
[14:21] <cody-somerville> pep, So you want them to delete it so you can start over?
[14:22] <pep> yes, that's the idea... we are changing the language it will be coded in and the contributors have completely changed
[14:22] <pep> former main contributor Dan Buch suggested deleting the old ones
[14:22] <pep> so did jenda vancura
[14:22] <gnomefreak> hey im still getting errors for emails to LP pre released version of Lp
[14:23] <gnomefreak> Error message:
[14:23] <gnomefreak> The message you sent included commands to modify the bug report, but you didn't
[14:23] <gnomefreak> sign the message with your OpenPGP key.
[14:23] <gnomefreak> i sign all my emails
[14:23] <gnomefreak> and for 2nd one i got a OOPS-926CEMAIL4 
[14:32] <gnomefreak> i never had a problem until the UI changed
[14:32] <cody-somerville> pep, I don't see much of a need to delete them
[14:32] <cody-somerville> You can change all the fields
[14:37] <pep> cody-somerville: so you think it better to simply put all branches and blueprints to obsolete/abandoned and work in the same project?
[14:37] <cody-somerville> pep, certainly.
[14:37] <cody-somerville> pep, why lose that data? :)
[14:39] <pep> well fine... we just had the feeling it "felt better" to start off in a nice, shining new project :)
[14:44] <cody-somerville> pep, well, I'd think getting started would beat waiting :)
[14:49] <pep> yes, I was very busy all last week, so I started getting a little fed up that nothing had moved on saturday :)
[14:56] <pep> cody-somerville: thanks for your help, I'll set everything to the correct status and change details/branding then...
[14:56] <pep>  it's not possible to change the project name is it? we can keep the spreadubuntu project as it is, but it would be good to change the ubuntu-diy-marketing to diy-spreadubuntu.. if not I'll create a diy-spreadubuntu project.
[14:56] <cody-somerville> pep, I believe you can change it, yes
[14:56] <cody-somerville> If not, we can get a launchpad admin to do it
[14:59] <pep> that would be nice, I think only an admin can do it...
[16:05] <pep> Any admins around to change a project name? I changed the projects details, etc... the question is here: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/38202
[16:10] <cody-somerville> pep, I think they might be busy at a sprint or something this week
[16:12] <pep> cody-somerville: oh really? thanks for the info ;)
[17:35] <emgent> barry: around ?
[17:35] <emgent> barry: when you have time can you take a look https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/38517 ?
[17:38] <andrea-bs> emgent: you can contact the owner of ubuntu-laptop and ask him to deactivate your team
[18:43] <lifeless> mpt: why is 'subscribe to bug mail' on the overview page?
[18:46] <mpt> lifeless, bug 193872
[18:50] <nedko> in PPA i get "Estimated build start:  	0 seconds ago" and "Build score:  	4005". is this normal?
[18:52] <nedko> it got built for lpia but for amd64 and i386 build records are in that state
[19:40] <m-c> Getting an "Application error." when trying to reset user password, on Launchpad.
[19:41] <andrea-bs> m-c: do you get an OOPS?
[19:41] <m-c> andrea-bs: The complete error is, "Application error.  Unauthenticated user POSTing to page that requires authentication."
[19:42] <m-c> This is immediately after completing the "Reset password" form.
[19:42] <andrea-bs> m-c: this seems a browser problem, not a launchpad issue
[19:42] <andrea-bs> m-c: which web browser are you using?
[19:42] <m-c> Are there third-party cookies that I need to allow?  I am using Firefox 3 (default with Ubuntu 8.04.1).
[19:47] <andrea-bs> m-c: I've tried to reset my password wit FF3 and I get no error, can you tell me which is the exact page where you get the error, please?
[19:47] <m-c> Let me try it again.  The page I was repeatedly getting errors, previously was: " https://edge.launchpad.net/token/qrZdBgTtSm332KLBmD6B/+resetpassword "
[19:52] <andrea-bs> m-c: this seems bug #2115, can you confirm this?
[19:54] <m-c> Just tried it again, with the same results.  Going to look at the bug now.
[20:02] <andrea-bs> m-c: what happens deleting your cookies?
[20:06] <m-c> I am not real eager to delete all my cookies...
[20:06] <m-c> But for the sake of Launchpad, I will give it a try!
[20:06] <andrea-bs> m-c: you can delete just the .launchpad.net cookies if you prefer
[20:08] <m-c> After removing all cookies, I was able to login, thank you very much!
[20:08] <andrea-bs> you are welcome
[20:09] <andrea-bs> I'll add this discussion to the bug report
[20:39] <Rinchen>  
[20:39] <Rinchen> Help test Launchpad's new UI!  http://news.launchpad.net
[20:39] <Rinchen>  
[20:41] <thekorn> Rinchen, hi, should we as a user add tags or something to bugs we report related to the new UI
[20:42] <beuno> UI tags would be great  :)
[20:42] <Rinchen> thekorn, you can tag them with UI if you'd like as per  https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs
[20:42] <Rinchen> Admittedly we're a bit behind on triaging.
[20:43] <Rinchen> The UI tag was originally meant for a different purpose but it's grown into an universal tag for the UI.
[20:43] <Rinchen> As such it's helpfulness varies from bug report to bug report
[20:44] <thekorn> ok, so there is no edgeUI tag?
[20:44] <thekorn> as there are about 500 UI bugs, every new one will be lost :)
[20:51] <Rinchen> Admittedly we're a bit behind on triaging. :-)
[21:02] <thekorn> that's no problem for me, as long as you are able to triage the bugreports which are filed as a result of your calls for help testing the new UI
[21:03] <Rinchen> yeah that we can do
[21:03] <Rinchen> sort by newest  :-)
[21:03] <danbhfive> anyone know what this error means?: bzr: ERROR: Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()                      I'm trying to push a branch from within a VM...
[21:04] <mthaddon> danbhfive, I'm not absolutely sure, but I think http is read only and push needs authentication
[21:04] <mthaddon> danbhfive, so you'll need to do sftp or bzr+ssh
[21:04] <danbhfive> mthaddon: yeah, I think you are correct
[21:05] <thekorn> Rinchen, but then you will get newly created tasks too ;) anyway, the new UI is looking very good and functional, good work
[21:05] <danbhfive> I think I found something, thanks
[21:05] <mthaddon> cool
[21:05] <Rinchen> thekorn, thanks mpt and beuno  :-)
[21:05] <tca> Are there launchpad staff on this channel? I deactivated my account some time ago for some reason, and I really would like to have it reactivated to report bugs on software I need. I won't deactivate it again ;-) Is that possible? The account is tca@gnu.org.
[21:06] <Rinchen> tca, try logging in and select  "forgotten password"
[21:07] <tca> Have tried several times. Get a message "this account cannot be used" or similar.
[21:08] <Rinchen> tca, hmm, we've been having some intermittent issues with something like that. Let me ask someone about it quick
[21:10] <Rinchen> tca, have something for you to try
[21:10] <Rinchen> tca, head over to https://edge.launchpad.net ...and attempt to do the forgotten password approach again please
[21:11] <Rinchen> tca, we have some newer code there that might have fixed the issue you are seeing.
[21:23] <tca> Rinchen: thanks, that worked.
[21:23] <Rinchen> thanks tca, best of luck!
[21:24] <Rhamphoryncus> Rinchen: shiny
[21:24] <Rinchen> Rhamphoryncus, shinier as the week progresses :-)
[21:25] <Rhamphoryncus> Hearing that you've done a usability study already makes me feel better
[21:25] <ScottK> Rinchen: I read you blog post.  I don't suppose you're interested in "Please dear God, no" feedback.
[21:27] <Rinchen> ScottK, :-)
[21:27] <ScottK> Honestly I think it's a big step backwards.
[21:27] <Rinchen> ScottK, can you write up your observations for me so I can share them with everyone? We're going to be tweaking the UI again later this year.
[21:28] <ScottK> It's almost like you've arbitrarily re-arranged stuff just to be confusing.
[21:28] <Rinchen> would be handy to have your reasoning 
[21:28] <Rinchen> ah, that in fact isn't the case. It's all based upon input received.
[21:29] <Rhamphoryncus> I like it.  The links for the current project have been given greater prominence, making the it project-centric, rather thank "here's launchpad!  And oh year, something about your project in the corner.."
[21:29] <ScottK> The summary version is that I find the current production U/I the most usable with CSS and images turned off.  I can find stuff then.  The edge U/I is even more confusing.
[21:30] <ScottK> Right, but I'm a distro developer, not a project developer.
[21:31] <Rhamphoryncus> It's all in the fine print :)
[21:31] <ScottK> I think that Launchpad development is clearly more focused on the project case than the distro case.
[21:32] <ScottK> I'd like to see more emphasis on fixing the huge stack of bugs than reshuffling U/I.
[21:33] <Rhamphoryncus> The UI *needed* reshuffling.  The first couple times I stumbled across launchpad, I honestly did not realize it was a project hosting site
[21:33] <Rhamphoryncus> Besides, most of the work's already done
[21:33] <ScottK> Rinchen: I'm really not sure where I would start if I were going to write up a critique.  My recommendation would be to take the last pre-beta tables based U/I, re-implement it in css, and go with that.
[21:33] <ScottK> Rhamphoryncus: Spent effort on a bad design isn't a reason to deploy it.
[21:34] <LaserJock> I think the only thing I'm really going to have issues with is multiple layers of tabs
[21:34] <LaserJock> it's like Gnome 3.0 or something ;-)
[21:34] <Rhamphoryncus> ScottK: good design for my uses.  That's why it's so important to figure out the circumstances that make it bad for you
[21:35] <Rinchen> ScottK, we do have an advanced UI (minimal UI) idea that hasn't been implemented yet. 
[21:35] <ScottK> I see Subscribe/Unsubscribe got moved above the subscriber list.  That's progress.
[21:37] <ScottK> Sticking "Link to a related branch" in the prime real estate on the bug page makes no sense at all for a distro.  It's virtually never used.
[21:37] <ScottK> Shoving the least used feature in the user's face is not good design.
[21:37] <ScottK> Link to CVE is at least sometimes useful, but also, almost never used.
[21:38] <LaserJock> agreed
[21:38] <LaserJock> the "Convert to Question" placement seems similarly odd to me
[21:38] <ScottK> And yet fundamental usability issues like not being able to remove a bug watch or un-nominate for a release if some accepts by mistake are not addressed.
[21:39] <LaserJock> I'd really rather have description/tag editing up top
[21:39] <ScottK> Then there's moving the Activity Log next to the name of the reporter.  
[21:39] <LaserJock> ideally you want the most-used items all within one scree, right?
[21:39] <ScottK> So we put it right next to the one bit of information that I don't need it to find out.
[21:40] <geser> the box "This report is public" looks like it got misplaced, like it should be together with the other boxes
[21:40] <ScottK> Essentially we go from always (modulo some defects in the old design) knowing where to look for stuff to do (Actions section) to having to hunt each action down in it's own special place on the page.
[21:41] <LaserJock> geser: yep
[21:41] <ScottK> So it's WAY more complex to deal with.
[21:41] <ScottK> Rinchen: In short, my advice would be go back one release, not forward.
[21:42] <laga> hum. new device looks.. tab-by
[21:42] <laga> err, design.
[21:44] <laga> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/mythbuntu  - this looks a bit odd. lots of unused space
[21:44] <laga> around that pie chart
[21:44] <ScottK> Rinchen: Now I have to go through several layers of click throughs to change settings on my account that were directly accessible before.
[21:45] <ScottK> I'm sure it looked good on paper, but more clicking = more waiting and LP isn't getting any faster.
[21:45] <ScottK> I'm going through looking for a change I like.
[21:45] <laga> also, the "list all open bugs" should be more prominent IMHO.. at least that's how i work: list all bugs, then CTRL+f - i launchpad search usually doesn't cut it for me.
[21:45] <ScottK> So far putting the subscribe/unsubscribe link above the subscriber list is it.
[21:45] <Rinchen> There are more changes coming over the next few days to clear up some of the elements, placements, rough corners, browser compatibility, etc.
[21:46] <LaserJock> Rinchen: what about inconsistent pages? some pages don't have the new layout, will that get fixed before release?
[21:46] <ScottK> Tweaks aren't what this needs.
[21:46] <Rinchen> LaserJock, by wed they should hopefully all be consistent but if you find some that aren't, please bug them
[21:46] <ScottK> Rinchen: I think the mutiple layers of menus on to change settings in my account is a REALLY bad problem.
[21:47] <ScottK> Rinchen: It just feels like you're going out of your way to make stuff hard.
[21:48] <LaserJock> I think it really sucks that it takes 3 clicks to get +packages from a user's homepage
[21:49] <ScottK> LaserJock: Users have plenty of time to wait.  I'm sure it'll be fine.  It's not like their productivity is important if it looks cool.
[21:49] <LaserJock> I guess 2 clicks if you know what you're doing
[21:49] <LaserJock> ScottK: low blow :-)
[21:49] <LaserJock> LP is plenty fast for me
[21:50] <ScottK> None if it's in your browser history and you know what to type.
[21:50] <ScottK> URL typing is still my primary method of navigation in LP.
[21:50] <ScottK> I don't see this changing that.
[21:51] <LaserJock> I use URLs as course navigation
[21:51] <LaserJock> then clicks to get exactly what I want from there
[21:52] <ScottK> Why in the world does "Related Software" default to the "Participation" tab.
[21:52]  * geser has "quick searches" in his firefox to jump to a given bug number, to jump to the source package page and the bug list of a package
[21:53] <ScottK> That's useless.  It lists stuff that mostly I've never even participated in.
[21:53] <LaserJock> ScottK: you might want to check out https://edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+milestone/1.99 to see what's maybe been fixed
[21:55] <ScottK> The participation section for me lists 17 projects.  I think I've actually touched stuff in 6 or 7 of them.
[21:55] <Rinchen> we're a good day behind on edge updates and there are some fixes needed for some items we found earlier on staging
[21:55] <ScottK> But that's clearly the most important thing.
[21:55] <geser> how is determined in which projects I particpated? I've have no idea why some projects are listed for me
[21:56] <ScottK> geser: Launchpad knows better than you what you've done and the best way you should do your work. 
[21:56] <Rinchen> it's based on bugs, specs, translations, etc...  
[21:56] <Rinchen> so if you comment on something for example, you could consider it participation
[21:56] <Rinchen> I'm not sure exactly how the calculation works without looking at the code
[21:57] <ScottK> Rinchen: As an example, it lists backports projects on my page that were closed before I ever got invovled in backports.
[21:57] <Rinchen> For me it's clearly generated off of those projects that I have the highest karma in
[21:57] <ScottK> For me it lists mostly ones I have none in.
[21:58] <geser> so if I comment on a bug which has an open task for the package in Ubuntu and a task for the project, it counts as a contribution to the project?
[21:58] <ScottK> This is a good example of LP being developed for projects, not distros.
[21:58] <ScottK> I click on related software and it defaults to projects.
[21:59] <ScottK> Projects are virtually irrelevant to me.
[21:59] <ScottK> The package list is useulf.
[21:59] <ScottK> useful...
[21:59] <LaserJock> +1 to that
[21:59] <LaserJock> it's kind of nice to have a list somewhere
[21:59] <LaserJock> but well buried in favor of useful information
[22:00] <ScottK> Rinchen: Was it part of the usability study that people wanted useful information buried where it was hard to find?
[22:00] <geser> it would be also good if the +packages page was paginated and didn't show only the last 50 uploads
[22:00] <Rinchen> ScottK, I think you are asking why the person page was split out....
[22:00] <Rinchen> ScottK, there's a bug report on that 
[22:00] <LaserJock> geser: totally! That really bugs me
[22:00] <Rinchen> ScottK, we didn't just arbitrarily wave a wand and say "let's go mess up people's workflows"
[22:01] <ScottK> Rinchen: Yet you manage.
[22:01] <Rinchen> we used input from bugs and the usability study to determine what the UI should look like
[22:01] <geser> iirc wgrant wanted to file a bug about it
[22:01] <Rinchen> UIs are hard to get right for everyone though.
[22:01] <LaserJock> I think he did
[22:01] <LaserJock> geser: ^^
[22:02] <LaserJock> Rinchen: for sure, perhaps an advanced UI or something would help
[22:02] <LaserJock> or better yet, customizable UI
[22:02] <Rinchen> LaserJock, yeah I am really looking forward to that since I don't use a lot of the UI myself
[22:03] <Rinchen> LaserJock, in that regard I'm like ScottK ... I just go to exact pages and don't need images and such
[22:03] <Rinchen> I don't actually turn them off mind you... I just know from experience where to go
[22:03] <LaserJock> well, it's sort of hard to remember all the URLs
[22:04] <Rinchen> but we have lots of UI bugs yet left to fix
[22:04] <LaserJock> I know the main ones, but wandering around source package/build pages, and personal pages ends up being quite a few URLs
[22:04] <Rinchen> yeah, the package and build pages we know we need to give love to
[22:04] <Rinchen> we've been toying with a few ways to do that, but haven't yet settled on anything specific
[22:05] <Rinchen> those pages are used a lot and are functional.....
[22:05] <LaserJock> well, somewhat functional
[22:05] <Rinchen> but not always intuitive 
[22:05] <Rinchen> yeah, so... known problem....
[22:05] <LaserJock> I've filed a couple bugs recently wrt changelogs
[22:05] <LaserJock> and LP's mangling of them
[22:07] <Rinchen> I need to leave for about an hour and half for an appointment.  I'll be back in case anyone wants to chew my ear off further. :-)
[22:07] <LaserJock> it just seems unfortnate that the broader development community is not consulted when these pages are designed
[22:07] <LaserJock> it's rather annoying to see Launchpad make steps backward
[22:08] <ScottK> Rinchen: I don't imagine there's much point.  You've embarked on a course and user unhappiness isn't going to change it.
[22:09] <beuno> ScottK, it probably will change it, it's just a matter of when  :)
[22:09] <LaserJock> ScottK: well, I'm not sure that's entirely fair. They do care about user unhappiness. The problem seems to be in an ability to deal with all user's needs and fixing things fast enough
[22:09] <ScottK> LaserJock: I don't think it would matter how many people showed up now and said "Please don't deploy the new U/I".
[22:10] <LaserJock> not now no
[22:10] <LaserJock> but that would be the same with just about anything
[22:10] <LaserJock> you don't completely scratch everything right before release
[22:10] <Rinchen> LaserJock, ScottK - I have to run but I've captured what you said, sanitized a little, and forwarded that on to the folks working on the plan for the next round of UI updates in the fall.
[22:11] <ScottK> Rinchen: Thanks.
[22:11] <Rinchen> I've suggested we get the mockups out well in advance for the community to comment on
[22:11] <Rinchen> we'll see what becomes of that
[22:12] <ScottK> Rinchen: There would have to be a reason for us to believe that feedback would be listened to.
[22:14] <nycerine> hm, as of today, there's no mechanism in launchpad that will tell an translator if the original language has been updated, so that a translator could up his/hers as well?
[22:14] <nycerine> am I correct?
[22:14] <ScottK> It's moments like this I really wish I had a blog on planet.
[22:29] <tacone> bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Erapache-devel/rapache/rapache-stage0/.bzr/branch/lock): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir() 
[22:29] <tacone> I have my ssh key uploaded. any idea ?
[22:29] <wgrant> Rinchen: The mockups didn't show the extent of the changes. They're much deeper and more bad this time.
[22:30] <wgrant> tacone: bzr launchpad-login <yourlaunchpadusername>
[22:30] <tacone> wgrant: thanks :) trying now
[22:30] <wgrant> And I really need to file at least a couple of dozen UI bugs tonight :(
[22:31] <tacone> wgrant: no output to that command. then the same error
[22:31] <wgrant> tacone: Make sure you check out using lp:... rather than http:...
[22:31] <tacone> wgrant: "bzr push"
[22:32] <wgrant> tacone: To what URL are you pushing?
[22:32] <tacone> ok
[22:32] <tacone> I checked it out via http I guess
[22:32] <wgrant> That would do it.
[22:32] <tacone> passing the url to the push seems working
[22:32] <tacone> sorry for the stupid question ;-)
[22:33] <beuno> tacone, make sure you re-push with   --remember flag, so it uses that the next time
[22:33] <wgrant> If you have set your username, lp:whatever will use bzr+ssh by defaualt.
[22:33] <tacone> too late :-)
[22:34] <tacone> bzr: ERROR: no such option: --remember-flag
[22:34] <beuno> tacone, right, just  --remember
[22:35] <tacone> nice
[22:35] <tacone> done, thank you. have a good evening
[22:46] <nycerine> hm, as of today, there's no mechanism in launchpad that will tell an translator if the original language has been updated, so that a translator could up his/hers as well?
[22:46] <nycerine> right?
[22:51] <wgrant> Hrrnnng. Why are there now only two items above the bugtask table? I can't see the third one elsewhere.
[22:51] <wgrant> Oh, right, I see.
[22:51] <wgrant> It's up there next to the summary.... ew.
[22:51] <wgrant> Where do I set the security? Through the privacy link? Oh dear.
[23:09]  * ScottK notes loading a particular bug takes ~20% more queries on edge than on the production database.  
[23:09]  * ScottK doesn't expect that to make things faster.
[23:15] <beuno> ScottK, I think that's because of a few new features that are going to land for bugs
[23:16] <ScottK> Faster would be the major feature I'm lacking.
[23:16]  * ScottK didn't see anything new on the page.
[23:18] <beuno> well, it's probably not showing on the UI yet.  I do wonder what the speed comparison is
[23:19]  * ScottK gets tired of "We are doing this thing that appears bad because of some great future thing".
[23:19] <nycerine> it's a strange concept
[23:20] <nycerine> but long term -> short term
[23:20] <beuno> ScottK, well, to be fair, it's on edge for a reason. So it can be rolled out in stages
[23:20] <ScottK> I'd probably feel better if I thought any of the great future vision would be useful to me.
[23:20] <ScottK> beuno: I thought release of this U/I was imminent.
[23:21] <beuno> ScottK, AFAIK, it is. Although there are many queued things for landing, so I'm not sure what exactly is going to be rolled out
[23:22] <beuno> ie, which are landing in this roll out, and which are landing in the next
[23:26] <beuno> ScottK, I do agree with many of your observations, so filing bugs at this stage is probably a great idea
[23:55]  * Rhamphoryncus wonders, if it takes 2 hours to push a new branch, is that a bad sign for how long scanning will take?
[23:56] <mwhudson_> i hope not