[00:12] <mpt> DnaX, either danilos or jtv will be able to tell you what happened. I think neither of them are around at the moment, but they should be in less than 12 hours.
[00:13] <mpt> emgent, it's never final. :-) Why do you ask?
[00:13] <DnaX> ok
[00:14] <DnaX> thanks for now
[00:15] <mwhudson> DnaX: perhaps asking a question at answers.launchpad.net/rosetta would be a good idea
[00:18] <emgent> mpt: i dont like it :)
[00:19] <emgent> mpt: I also removed from Launchpad beta testers (for now), I cant see it :)
[00:20] <ScottK> emgent: So far you aren't the only one to come here and say that.
[00:20] <ScottK> It doesn't appear to have mattered much.
[00:23] <emgent> argh 
[00:23] <mpt> ScottK, it's been just over 26 hours. Please excuse us if some of the fixes take a couple of days.
[00:24]  * emgent confident in the next updates graphs
[00:24] <ScottK> mpt: I haven't gotten the feeling that there will be fixes.
[00:24] <ScottK> mpt: The response seemed to me to be "We did a usability study and we know this is better. You'll get used to it."
[00:25] <ScottK> mpt: But I'm loving no CSS on my phone.  I need to figure out how to do that in Konqueror.
[00:28] <mpt> ScottK, I'm sorry that the user testing was cited a bit misleadingly there. To have used user testing for the new designs, we would need to test much more often than we have budget for at the moment.
[00:28] <ScottK> Right.
[00:29] <ScottK> Well you know I think LP U/I is headed in the wrong direction and has been for some time.  So far I'm not suprised.
[00:29]  * ScottK will get by.
[00:29] <mpt> So to some extent we expect people complaining about changes just because they're changes, but some of the points are certainly valid, e.g. the maintained packages list being too hard to get to, so we're fixing that.
[00:30] <ScottK> mpt: I fundamentally dislike the concept of scattering links all over the page so it's hard to figure out where to go to do any particular thing until you've done it enough times to know.
[00:30] <ScottK> So I think this latest design is a fundamental and significant step in the wrong direction.
[00:30] <ScottK> Picking at it won't change that.
[00:31] <rockstar> ScottK, what parts of Launchpad do you use the most?
[00:32] <ScottK> I'm an Ubuntu developer.  So I use package and bug stuff.
[00:32] <ScottK> I don't use code at all.
[00:32] <ScottK> I use blueprints a little.
[00:35] <LaserJock> ScottK: the scattering bit is indeed something that makes it more difficult to use
[00:35] <ScottK> LaserJock: They did a usability study.  You'll get used to it. ;-)
[00:36] <LaserJock> until the next time it's changed maybe
[00:36] <LaserJock> it'd be one thing if it stayed put
[00:36] <LaserJock> though I don't doubt for some people the new design is more usable
[00:37] <LaserJock> but my guess is that hardcore users find it more troublesome
[00:37] <mpt> It has nothing to do with the usability study
[00:38] <mpt> But it at least gives us the *possibility* of fixing the problems where people just assumed Launchpad didn't have a feature, because it was hiding in the Actions menu.
[00:39] <LaserJock> well, I'm very much less concerned about UI than I am about "real" bugs and missing bits
[00:39] <beuno> ScottK, I think the process of finding a good middle-ground for in interface is taking a bit longer then expected
[00:40] <LaserJock> mpt: I like the main tabs
[00:40] <LaserJock> I just have problem with multiple rows of tabs
[00:40] <pygi> 3D tabs!
[00:40] <mpt> LaserJock, yeah, we're working on reducing those
[00:40] <pygi> here's one usability issue
[00:41] <pygi> if I'm at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/cheezburger, and I click the launchpad button
[00:41] <pygi> I'd expect to go back to https://edge.launchpad.net
[00:41] <pygi> and not https://code.edge.launchpad.net
[00:41]  * ScottK agrees with LaserJock.  I think it'd be much better to fix infrastructure then flop the U/I around on a quarterly basis.
[00:41] <mpt> pygi, I was hoping to fix that yesterday, but spent all my time on IE7 instead. I'll have a go today.
[00:42] <pygi> mpt, :)
[00:42] <LaserJock> mpt: is there any thought on moving the tags display to higher in the bug report
[00:42] <LaserJock> mpt: I'd love to have it near the title
[00:43] <mpt> ScottK, agreed. The last major change was nearly two years ago. I hope from now on we can concentrate more on the small problems.
[00:44] <mpt> LaserJock, hmm, that would move the description further down. Are tags really more useful than the description?
[00:44] <LaserJock> yes
[00:44] <LaserJock> if a description is that long I'm gonna be scrolling anyway
[00:44] <LaserJock> if I need to see the tags I want to see it on the first screen
[00:44] <mars> mpt, I'll take pygi's issue.  Do you have a bug for it?
[00:45] <ScottK> mpt: Maybe just because major stuff gets done to stuff I use a lot (like the package history page) it feels more often to me.
[00:45] <ScottK> mpt: I'd rather you went back to pre-beta and started from there
[00:45] <ScottK> But I need to go eat dinner.
[00:45] <LaserJock> mpt: most of the bugs I've been reading lately have had the tags below the first page
[00:46] <LaserJock> I think if you were to move the "Update description/tags" butten along with the tags up to the top of the description it'd be good
[00:46] <pygi> mars, if that question was for me, no, I haven't filled a bug
[00:46] <mpt> mars, bug 247423
[00:46] <mpt> ah, doesn't need to be private any more
[00:46] <pygi> ah, private bugs :p
[00:47] <beuno> ew, Not allowed pages look ugly
[00:47] <mpt> bug 247423
[00:48] <mpt> I'm queasy about making the "Launchpad" link change the tab you're on, though
[00:49] <mpt> That's breaking the pattern of how the hierarchy works
[00:49] <LaserJock> I think I remember fighting over a similar bug a couple years ago
[00:49] <LaserJock> :-)
[00:49] <mpt> ah yes
[00:49] <beuno> mpt, I think I'd expect to go to the homepage too instead of the app when clicking on LP logo
[00:50] <mpt> LaserJock, we've had a problem with commit messages, but if we hadn't, I would have marked that bug fixed a few days ago :-)
[00:50] <mpt> one moment
[00:50] <LaserJock> I just find that a lot of the time I click on things in Launchpad and it takes me unexpected places
[00:50] <mpt> bug 224833
[00:51] <mpt> soren, that bug's fixed now
[00:51] <mpt> er, *so* that bug's fixed now
[00:51] <mpt> Making "Launchpad" go back to the Launchpad front page would unfix it.
[00:51] <pygi> beuno, ++
[00:52] <LaserJock> I'd really love to see a "this is how we designed Launchpad to work" doc
[00:52] <LaserJock> if I could figure how the thinking/philosophy behind it I think I'd make better clicking choices :-)
[00:52] <pygi> then we could argue, and tell you what you did wrong :p
[00:52] <thumper> mpt: where are the drop down menus?
[00:53] <thumper> mpt: are they gone for good?
[00:53] <thumper> mpt: because it isn't obvious from the front page where to create a team
[00:53] <mpt> thumper, that's fixed in mainline
[00:53] <thumper> mpt: which is in the "registry" but that page goes to /projects
[00:53] <beuno> mpt, well, you can click on the "bugs" tab, and that would take you back to all bugs.  Navigation does need some deep discussion though...
[00:54] <mpt> beuno, click on the "bugs" tab from where?
[00:54] <mpt> Remember that the Launchpad front page is (at least currently) one of the least useful pages on the site.
[00:54] <beuno> mpt, right. Just read it through, ignore me  :)
[00:55] <mpt> It seems much more likely that someone is going to want to go back to https://code.launchpad.net/ or https://bugs.launchpad.net/ than to https://launchpad.net/
[00:55] <beuno> bugs.lp.net is pretty useless too
[00:55] <mpt> True, but at least it has a workable search
[00:55] <LaserJock> I want it to go to launchpad.net
[00:55] <LaserJock> if I click on Ubuntu I expect to go to launchpad.net/ubuntu
[00:55] <beuno> yes, and let's not even get into search now  :)
[00:55] <LaserJock> not *.launchpad.net/ubuntu
[00:56] <pygi> yes
[00:56] <mpt> LaserJock, agreed on that
[00:56] <mpt> mars, now *that* you could fix
[00:57] <LaserJock> though it would be nice to have an easy way to get to bugs.lp.net/ubuntu from a bug page
[00:57] <mpt> Ah, I have a cunning plan to fix that
[00:57] <LaserJock> it's just that when I click on "Ubuntu" I expect the main ubuntu page
[00:57] <LaserJock> but I *also* want *.lp.net/ubuntu available
[00:58] <LaserJock> basically I want my cake and eat it too :p
[00:58] <LaserJock> I know a lot of people like navigate-via-URL but I really do prefer clicking
[01:00] <LaserJock> mpt: is there a reason why I can't search for source packages from bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu like I can from launchpad.net/ubuntu ?
[01:01] <LaserJock> any why in heaven's name is Release Critical bugs below the gigantic Tags list on bugs.lp.net/ubuntu ?
[01:01] <LaserJock> I'd never find it there
[01:02] <mpt> LaserJock, no, it's just that those pages haven't been designed yet
[01:02] <mpt> (by "those pages" I mean the main Bugs page for a project)
[01:03] <LaserJock> I see
[01:03] <LaserJock> "Key Contacts" is also a bit weird in Ubuntu's case at least
[01:04] <LaserJock> only 1 out of 3 are really contactable entities
[01:06] <LaserJock> wow, so PPAs have now reached the size of Main :-)
[01:07] <LaserJock> mpt: do you happen to know if there's anything in the work on Mentoring? is it going to go the way of the calendar? :-)
[01:08] <mpt> LaserJock, no idea
[01:14] <emgent> mpt: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/38517
[01:14] <emgent> please take a look
[01:15] <pep> Is it normal that the new, horizontal browse-tabs, dissappear on the https://edge.launchpad.net/~user/+activate-ppa page? Because it stays for Profile / Related Software / Karma...
[01:15] <emgent> mpt: only sabdfl (registry team admin) and launchpad-admin can remove my team. Can you remove it?
[01:17] <mpt> emgent, no, sorry, I'm not a Launchpad admin
[01:19] <mpt> pep, it's "normal" as in it always happens, but it's not "normal" as in desired. It's bug 246728.
[01:19] <pep> mpt: ok, I should have looked for a bug.
[01:20] <emgent> Rinchen: can you take a look ?
[01:20] <emgent> mpt: ok np thanks :)
[01:20] <mpt> Rinchen's off for the evening
[01:20] <emgent> argh ok.
[01:20] <emgent> i will wait.
[01:58] <vadi2> How can I make a new poll in a team? I only see a "Show polls" link, and no "Add polls" one. help didn't give any results either
[02:23] <mpt> vadi2, you need to be a team admin to create a poll
[02:32] <vadi2> oh, ok
[07:44] <Somerandomname> Hello is this the place to report a bug?
[07:45] <spiv> A bug about Launchpad?
[07:45] <Somerandomname> I believe so? or is launchpad the reporting method for wubi?
[07:45] <Somerandomname> im a tad confused on the feedback portion of this find.
[07:46] <spiv> If you have a bug in wubi, then you probably want to report it at https://bugs.launchpad.net/wubi
[07:47] <Somerandomname> Thanks sorry.
[07:47] <spiv> Not a problem.
[09:12]  * Hobbsee sighs
[09:12] <Hobbsee> mpt: isn't the latest release of a package supposed to be the latest release, in the latest ubuntu version?
[09:12] <Hobbsee> ie, not a backport?
[09:12]  * Hobbsee wonders who introduced that regression.
[09:15] <Hobbsee> and why does the subscriber list also show people who no longer use launchpad?
[09:15] <Hobbsee> surely if their accoutns are disabled, they are no longer subscribed to the bug, which is misleading.
[09:56] <geser> Hobbsee: bug #248223
[11:12] <gnomefreak> ok really guys wth is wrong with me sending emails to bug reports. they work as long as i dont change status or importance
[11:14] <gnomefreak> i didnt get a failure so far but my comment isnt on the bug report
[11:14] <wgrant> gnomefreak: Did you sign the emails?
[11:15] <gnomefreak> wgrant: always
[11:15] <wgrant> Is the signature valid?
[11:15] <wgrant> Not broken by wrapping?
[11:15] <gnomefreak> wgrant: yes i assume its good. and i turned off wrrapper to fix the quote issue
[11:16] <gnomefreak> my key works for packaging and email without status changes
[11:16] <wgrant> But it's not known to be good for signing emails.
[11:16] <gnomefreak> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/248797/+activity
[11:17] <gnomefreak> wgrant: it should be good it has worked prior to new UI in LP
[11:17] <wgrant> Hm?
[11:17] <wgrant> gnomefreak: I doubt the UI could have anything to do with it.
[11:17] <gnomefreak> wgrant: im not saying it is but thats when it started failing
[11:17] <wgrant> Can you verify the signature on the email?
[11:18] <gnomefreak> how do i tell if key is valid
[11:18] <wgrant> I never mentioned the key.
[11:18] <gnomefreak> you mentioned signiture i assumed you meant my key
[11:18] <wgrant> I meant the signature.
[11:19] <gnomefreak> it didnt sign it
[11:19] <gnomefreak> why?
[11:19] <gnomefreak> yes it did
[11:19] <gnomefreak> UNTRUSTED Good signature from John Vivirito <ubuntu.ase@gmail.com> 
[11:19] <wgrant> You cannot change anything in a bug without a valid signature...
[11:19] <wgrant> Is that the email as it was transmitted?
[11:20] <gnomefreak> wait a minute i have to readd my key i had removed that email address
[11:20] <gnomefreak> i was told i didnt have to reload my key to tbird or LP
[11:21] <gnomefreak> no thats not right either that address was removed from key and i had to redo tbird so used updated key
[11:21] <wgrant> Did you upload the key to keyserver.ubuntu.com or another keyserver in that network/
[11:22] <gnomefreak> i dont remember what one i think ubuntu.com but let me check
[11:23] <gnomefreak> keyserver.ubuntu.com
[11:23] <gnomefreak> that would be the one
[11:23] <wgrant> Hm.
[11:23] <wgrant> You probably need to poke some LP person to check logs.
[11:23] <wgrant> But I've known Thunderbird to do stupid wrapping things before.
[11:24] <gnomefreak> thats fixable in the preferneces
[11:24] <wgrant> Maybe not entirely. TB does strange, strange things.
[11:25] <gnomefreak> im assuming i would get a failure email and i hadnt gotten that either
[11:25] <gnomefreak> maybe during n-m update
[11:25] <wgrant> Maybe not if the signature was bad.
[11:25] <gnomefreak> i was offline for a minute
[11:27] <gnomefreak> ok resent im thinking n-m kicked me during update and it was around same time i think
[11:27] <gnomefreak> ok brb need to reboot
[11:28] <gnomefreak> this is just flat out pissing me off everyday i tweak something to fix it and still doesnt work.
[11:28] <gnomefreak> be back in a few
[11:36] <gnomefreak> im checking another bug i replied to without changing the status
[11:36] <gnomefreak> to see if it signed it
[11:36] <gnomefreak> ok wth
[11:37] <gnomefreak> none of them went through at all
[11:39] <gnomefreak> wgrant: using PGP/MIME should work right?
[11:39] <gnomefreak> that setting shouldnt affect the signing for LP email
[11:43] <geser> gnomefreak: have you tried sending a signed message to an other address of yours and checking the signature?
[11:44] <wgrant> gnomefreak: PGP/MIME is a very different type of signature... why wouldn't it affect it?
[11:44] <gnomefreak> geser: i just did waiting for reply
[11:45] <gnomefreak> wgrant: it shouldnt affect it for LP should it?
[11:45] <gnomefreak> i dont see any rason it would
[11:45] <gnomefreak> reason
[11:45] <wgrant> gnomefreak: Maybe LP doesn't support it, or Enigmail does it badly!?
[11:45] <gnomefreak> asac: dont you use PGP/MIME to sign your email?
[11:46] <gnomefreak> it didnt sign the email to a friend
[11:49] <gnomefreak> for some reason using PGP/MIME doesnt sign messages at all it asks for password for the key but never uses it
[11:49] <wgrant> That there could be your problem.
[11:50] <gnomefreak> im sending one now without PGP/MIME
[11:52] <gnomefreak> just resent with status new
[11:52] <gnomefreak> if works i change it back
[11:54] <gnomefreak> give me a few minutes and ill let you know if it helped
[12:03] <gnomefreak> ok still no comment on bug report from mee and still no failure email from LP
[12:04]  * gnomefreak should get failure email if email doesnt go through
[12:06] <geser> gnomefreak: and you get a good signature when you send yourself a signed message?
[12:06] <gnomefreak> any LP admins here yet. i would like someone to check logs for me since i cant get an email to go through and not getting failure notis
[12:06] <gnomefreak> geser: i did when i sent to a friend 
[12:06] <geser> hmm
[12:07] <gnomefreak> 06:48 <      gnomefreak+> let me know if it changes when you get it
[12:07] <gnomefreak> 06:49 <          ikonia+> got you
[12:07] <gnomefreak> 06:50 <          ikonia+> key included this time
[12:07] <gnomefreak> he meant inline since that is what i asked him to look for
[12:09] <gnomefreak> this has been going on for week or 2 and its kind of making my work a bit time costly at this time sinc ei have so many bugs to deal with (1000+ bugs)
[12:13] <ignas> hi
[12:15] <ignas> schooltool is using PPA for releases, is there a way to link PPA packages to the relevant series using add ubuntu package or as plain releases?
[12:20] <beuno> mpt, mornin'
[12:20] <beuno> very nice job on the UI marathon, it looks great  :)
[12:21]  * ignas likes the new design too
[12:21] <beuno> mpt, there is one problem though, on the home page, the "new look" news links to a 404
[12:21] <gnomefreak> wgrant: i have no choice at this time to think my issue is anything but LP
[12:23] <wgrant> ignas: No. You'd think one could link to it inside a release, but apparently no LP dev has thought to do that yet.
[12:23] <ignas> I see
[12:25] <wgrant> What was wrong with using the usual logo for the favicon?
[12:29] <gnomefreak> can someone ping me when Lpo admins wake up/get to work/feels like helping?
[12:29] <gnomefreak> this is messed up i can send to person but not LP
[12:32] <wgrant> gnomefreak: Perhaps ask a question at the URL in the topic.
[12:35] <gnomefreak> wgrant: ok thanks
[12:35] <gnomefreak> anyswers or help?
[12:36] <gnomefreak> s/anyswers/answers
[12:36] <wgrant> gnomefreak: answers.
[12:36] <gnomefreak> thankws
[12:37] <gnomefreak> i just opened help and its just a help page
[12:37] <wgrant> As would seem to make sense.
[12:40] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: can you please send an email to help@bugs.launchpad.net and tell me if you're getting a response?
[12:41] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: we've had a few similar problems. i still don't know what's the cause, but i hope to have an answer soon
[12:41] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: yep right now ill write one up real fast
[12:42] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: you can just send an empty email. should be real fast :)
[12:43] <gnomefreak> oops
[12:43] <intellectronica> ?
[12:43] <gnomefreak> well i wrote in it fo i can keep it as reference
[12:43] <intellectronica> cool
[12:44] <gnomefreak> i got email of question i added to answers
[12:44] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: if you don't get a reply in the next 10 minutes, then it's bad, but at least you're in good company :-/
[12:45] <gnomefreak> bad for who? LP or me?
[12:45] <asac> gnomefreak: i use mutt ... which uses pgp/mime iirc
[12:45] <gnomefreak> asac: mutt is too much trouble to set up :(
[12:45] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: bad for you, because you can't use the email interface, and for us, because we have to fix it
[12:45] <asac> gnomefreak: sure. pgp/mime should i hope
[12:45] <asac> (in enigmail)
[12:46] <gnomefreak> pgp/mime fails in LP and people emails
[12:46] <gnomefreak> it was failing to sign any message
[12:46] <gnomefreak> so i changed option to not use it and it signs messages
[12:47] <asac> gnomefreak: how does it fail?
[12:47] <gnomefreak> asac: it doesnt sign them at all inline nor attachment
[12:48] <gnomefreak> we need to update enigmail as well since we are 6 point releases behind
[12:48] <gnomefreak> its not 0.95.6 and we have 0.95.0
[12:48] <gnomefreak> s/not.now
[12:50] <asac> gnomefreak: yea i know ... but that shouldnt break pgp/mime
[12:50] <gnomefreak> asac: agreed
[12:50] <gnomefreak> asac: this has been like this for a week or 2
[12:51] <gnomefreak> closer to 2
[12:53] <asac> gnomefreak: i just tested. works fine here 
[12:53] <asac> both: inline + pgp/mime
[12:53] <gnomefreak> for some reason it doesnt here in tbird with enigmail
[12:54] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: i got a reply
[12:55] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: good news, so you don't have a problem using the email interface, but something more specific (to do with the emails you're sending, i guess)
[12:55] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: its works for proplr i dont see why it wont work for LP
[12:55] <gnomefreak> people even
[12:56] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: can i maybe have a look at one of these emails?
[12:56] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: sure, one i sent to LP or you want a personal one?
[12:57] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: one you sent to LP
[12:57] <gnomefreak> k
[12:58] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: you can just paste the raw message at http://paste.ubuntu.com/
[12:58] <gnomefreak> i am
[12:58] <intellectronica> cool
[13:00] <gnomefreak> http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/1073271
[13:00] <gnomefreak> that is the one without pgp/mime
[13:01] <gnomefreak> same with pgp/mime  but when i sent pgp/mime the person did not get my key once i disabled pgp/mime he got the sig
[13:03] <gnomefreak> matter of fact i think i sent email to asac this morning or yesterday using pgp/mime
[13:03] <gnomefreak> so he shouldnt see the sig.
[13:04] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: can you please paste the complete raw message (with headers and everything)?
[13:04] <gnomefreak> k
[13:06] <gnomefreak> no i cant :( it wont allow me to copy the header
[13:06] <wgrant> gnomefreak: Ctrl+U.
[13:06] <intellectronica> really? what mail program are you using?
[13:06] <gnomefreak> thanks :)
[13:06] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: tbird
[13:07] <asac> gnomefreak: ctrl+u should work like wgrant said
[13:07] <intellectronica> what they said
[13:07] <gnomefreak> it did
[13:07] <gnomefreak> waiting for pastebin to load
[13:07] <gnomefreak> this is one without pgp/mime
[13:08] <gnomefreak> http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/1073275
[13:08] <gnomefreak> with pgp/mime looks same http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/1073279
[13:10] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: thanks
[13:11] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: thank you for helping
[13:12] <gnomefreak> headers didnt tell me too much if there was an issue or not
[13:39] <pep> Hi, we created our team mailing list after the teams was created and I'm wondering if everyone has subscribed... is there a way to see who has subscibed to a launchpad mailing list?
[13:39] <intellectronica> barry: do you know the answer?
[13:41] <barry> pep: no, but there's an open bug on this and i'm hoping we'll address this soon
[13:41] <pep> Ah very well :)
[13:41] <pep> thank you
[14:00] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[14:00] <Hobbsee> hey mpt!
[14:44] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: did you need any more info from me while im here?
[14:45] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: nothing, thanks. no clue what the problem is yet, though
[14:46] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: ok thanks i wish i knew
[14:52] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: im trying one without status changes
[15:01] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: oh well i tried but same thing, sorry thought i would try to see if it gave me a failure email
[15:02] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: i doubt that this is the problem. i can submit the identical mail successfully to staging, so i guess it's to do with the signature or something
[15:03] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: as far as i know its good, if you can think of things i can do to find out for sure please let me know
[15:03] <gnomefreak> even the header says its good
[15:04] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: oh, it definitely does verify. don't know, it's a mystery. i'll continue trying and let you know
[15:04] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: if you feel like starting a question so that i can track this it would be awesome
[15:05] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: thanks if you need anything from me please let me know if im not here you can email me at the address on those headers/emails i gave you
[15:05] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: already did
[15:05] <gnomefreak> let me find it
[15:05] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: oh cool. url?
[15:05] <intellectronica> sure
[15:05] <gnomefreak> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/39396
[15:05] <gnomefreak> filed ~2hours ago
[15:21] <gnomefreak> im thinking its enigmail the more i think abou tit
[15:21] <gnomefreak> about it
[15:22] <geser> gnomefreak: have you an other mail client you could test?
[15:23] <gnomefreak> geser: not yet right now im looking for someone with tbird+enigmail to see if thiers works
[15:23] <gnomefreak> i need to find out if claws uses enigmail or a plugin
[15:25] <gnomefreak> well damn Hobbsee doesnt have  a problem with same set up
[15:26] <gnomefreak> that leaves me thinking that its my key but it says my signature is good
[15:26] <gnomefreak> ill see if claws works
[15:31] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: i don't have a problem with that setup and that message, and i could verify your signature without a problem
[15:31] <gnomefreak> claws seems to be a bit messed up atm.
[15:31] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: Hobbsee are you on intrepid or hardy?
[15:31] <intellectronica> hardy
[15:32] <gnomefreak> if she is on hardy ill reboot to hardy partition and try ;)
[15:32] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: intrepid, but i usualy use hardy
[15:32] <gnomefreak> :(
[15:33] <Hobbsee> i don't think i've ever had a problem
[15:33] <gnomefreak> i was hoping gpg was messd up in hardy
[15:33]  * Hobbsee smashes launchpad witha  brick
[15:34] <Hobbsee> what do you mean i don't have access?
[15:34] <Hobbsee> https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members-kde4/+reassign comes up that i'm forbidden
[15:34] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: dont feel bad i dont have access to anythig including email to lp
[15:34] <Hobbsee> so i'm forbidden from changing the owner of the team, from me to someone else.
[15:34] <gnomefreak> ill try on my hardy partition maybe it works there
[15:34]  * Hobbsee can pick the person, hit change, tehn gets that screen
[15:35]  * Hobbsee is sure that used to work, too
[16:22] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: ok now im really confused
[16:22] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: ?
[16:22] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: it works fine in Hardy see bug 249082
[16:23] <gnomefreak> i set up bug to track and test
[16:23] <gnomefreak> maybe gnupg is messed up in Intrepid
[16:24] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: please please please use staging.launchpad.net for testing if at all possible
[16:24] <gnomefreak> never heard of it
[16:25] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: staging has the latest code, and a daily copy of the data, but it's only used for testing (the data you change goes away after the daily copy)
[16:25] <intellectronica> so you can test the latest code without polluting the db
[16:26] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: so, the problems goes away on a certain client setup (tb + enigmail on hardy) and only manifests itself on intrepid?
[16:26] <gnomefreak> removing the info from this bug isnt best idea since it may be needed for further info
[16:26] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: yes
[16:26] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: well, looks like you've discovered an ubutnu/thunderbird/enigmail bug
[16:27] <gnomefreak> maybe ill move ~/.gnupg over to intrepid from hardy
[16:27] <intellectronica> maybe asac will have an idea?
[16:27] <intellectronica> anyway, it would be a good idea to report it
[16:27] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: agreed
[16:27] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: however, i must say that from looking at the message you pasted earlier, i can't see what the problem is. it looks fine to me, and i can submit it without a problem
[16:28] <gnomefreak> but since i am on mozilla team ill know its there ;)
[16:28] <intellectronica> huh :)
[16:28] <gnomefreak> maybe removing ubuntu.ase@gmailDOTcom
[16:29] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: the bug would be against a mozilla app and im sure i wont forget the bug and i will end up looking into it but i might report it incase i dont get to it this week
[16:29] <geser> does LP also check the email address and not just the signature?
[16:30] <gnomefreak> geser: good question.
[16:30] <intellectronica> geser: yes, it checks the From too
[16:31] <gnomefreak> do the from and address on key have to be same?
[16:31]  * gnomefreak thinking removing that above address from gpg key might have spawned this
[16:32] <geser> gnomefreak: that wouldn't explain why on hardy it works and not on intrepid as LP uses in both cases the same key
[16:33] <geser> unless you have your TB configured differently between hardy and intrepid
[16:33] <gnomefreak> it has differnt ~/.gnupg but since i updated servers i guess it wouldnt matter
[16:34] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: yes, you have to have a public key coresponding to the From uploaded to LP
[16:35] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: anyway, as i said, i could verify your message based on one of the keys you have, so that's not the problem
[16:35] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: so i have to add all my emails that i would reply on LP from?
[16:35] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: and anyway you said yourself that it works for you on hardy
[16:35] <gnomefreak> yes about to compare gpg.conf
[16:36] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: no, you just have to upload the key you're using to your launchpad account
[16:37] <gnomefreak> it already is and i was told after changing it last week i didnt need to re upload to LP
[16:37] <gnomefreak> just to key servers
[16:39] <geser> intellectronica: doesn't it contradict what you said about the From checking?
[16:40] <intellectronica> geser: no. we check the from to determine who you are, then check that the signature is with a key that you've uploaded to your lp account, but that signature doesn't have to have the address in the From
[16:40] <mrevell> gmb, ping
[16:41] <gmb> mrevell: Koennen Ich Ihren hilfe?
[16:42] <mrevell> gmb, Hello Graham. I don't speak German, I'm afraid.
[16:44] <intellectronica> mrevell: that wasn't german. it's swahili
[16:49] <geser> intellectronica: ah, I understood it that the From is checked against the UID on the key. What you said makes more sense.
[16:50] <Odd_Bloke> So I'm trying to resubmit a merge proposal on Edge (https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/pqm/rename-test-strings/+merge/457) and I get told that I don't have permissions to do so.  It's my branch, presumably it's wrong?
[16:50] <parumi> hi, my project subversion can not be imported.  see the logs: https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/clam/trunk  many GB downloaded but gets restarted every 26-28 hours.
[16:51] <parumi> now the sysadmin of our subversion urges me to stop the imports (is taking too much bandwidth too much time)
[16:52] <parumi> so my question is, could we try a different approach to import our repo? maybe if I put a tarball available?
[16:52] <pep> Mhh.. a user can't determine one of his preffered languages as his primary or main language can he?
[16:53] <parumi> I hope I'm asking at the right place. Are launchpad admins in this channel?
[16:53] <pep> parumi: yes, just wait :)
[16:57] <Odd_Bloke> There's a bug somewhere, because production will allow me to do it. :)
[16:59] <intellectronica> parumi: you could upload it yourself. use the bzr-svn plugin to get the code and turn it into a bzr repo, then push it to launchpad yourself
[16:59] <intellectronica> parumi: but it sounds like you've got huge branches. how come?
[17:01] <pep> intellectronica: any idea on my preffered language question? i'm wondering if you can set one of them as the main one... if not I'll file a question...
[17:02] <intellectronica> pep: i think i missed your question about language. can you please remind me?
[17:03] <intellectronica> pep: ah got it, nm
[17:03] <pep> well a user can determine a short list of preffered languages... I personally have english, english UK, french and german.... but is it possible to set one of them as the main one?
[17:04] <intellectronica> pep: no, i don't think so. that might make sense, though, so feel free to file a bug
[17:05] <pep> ok, I was going to make it but wanted to double-check first
[17:05] <pep> thaks
[17:05] <pep> thanks*
[17:16] <parumi> any admin around to take a look at my question above? thanks!
[17:17] <andrea-bs> parumi: please, use https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad for administration questions
[17:23] <cyberixae> I think I'm lacking a bug status type
[17:24] <cyberixae> The problem is that the bug is in an upstream library
[17:24] <cyberixae> so it is not a bug in the piece of software it was originally reported to
[17:24] <cyberixae> so the status has been set to "invalide" for that piece of software
[17:24] <cyberixae> -e
[17:25] <cyberixae> but then the users of the software can not find the reason for their problem because the bug report is not displayed for them
[17:26] <andrea-bs> cyberixae: so you want to switch back the status to Confirmed/New for the upstream bug?
[17:30] <cyberixae> This is the case
[17:30] <cyberixae> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/237300
[17:31] <cyberixae> The issue was first reported for pq Ubuntu package because this was used when the problem first appeared.
[17:31] <cyberixae> The problem also appeared in a part of gnome-panel so the bug was reported for gnome-panel
[17:31] <cyberixae> Then it turned out that the bug was in wine
[17:32] <cyberixae> A remote bug watch was added for wine Bugzilla
[17:32] <cyberixae> but the bug ofcourse existed also in Wine Ubuntu package
[17:32] <cyberixae> Now the bug has been fixed at Wine upstream
[17:33] <cyberixae> but for some unknown reason the bug watch doesn't notice this
[17:33] <cyberixae> also the bug exists in the Ubuntu package because it hasn't been updated
[17:33] <cyberixae> and the bug bothers pq users and some might think it is a gnome-panel bug
[17:34] <cyberixae> so it might be usefull for the bug report to be visible at the bug trackers for pq and gnome-panel too even, if it is not a bug in those projects
[17:36] <andrea-bs> cyberixae: when you report a bug, Invalid ones are listed anyhow: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pq/+filebug
[17:36] <andrea-bs> cyberixae: try to insert "main window disappears from the Window list" as summary and click on "continue"
[17:44] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: using a different key seems to work now, i just wish i didnt have to and i wish i new what was issue with it
[17:45] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: thanks for helping look into it
[17:45] <gnomefreak>  /win 10
[17:46] <intellectronica> gnomefreak: no worries. let me know if/when you find out what the problem was
[17:47] <gnomefreak> intellectronica: i will thanks
[17:51] <cyberixae> I know the users will be informed at the point when they try to refile the bug, but some users might just browse the list of open bugs.
[18:06] <mrevell> leonardr, Hey, do you have five mins to talk to me?
[18:13] <leonardr> mrevell: sure
[18:41] <Stavros> how can i upload some files to my project/
[18:42] <ToyKeeper> Stavros: Register a release (or go to an existing release), then "Add download file".
[18:43] <Stavros> ToyKeeper: where do i register a release? :/
[18:44] <Stavros> oh got it, thanks
[18:48] <ToyKeeper> Oh, sweet.  My suggestion got implemented and I didn't even notice.  ;P
[18:49] <Stavros> what was it?
[18:49] <ToyKeeper> There is also a link to add files for each release on the +download page.
[18:52] <ToyKeeper> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/161187
[18:54] <ToyKeeper> Oh, nevermind.  I guess it's still the same as it was.  It still has no links to register a new release.
[20:09] <mtaylor> oh launchpad gods... the branch activity/push emails are great, but is there any way to get the push email to show the rolled up diff rather than email-per-commit? 
[20:34] <fawek> hello :)
[20:35] <fawek> can anybody tell me, why SVN imports on Launchpad last so long?
[20:35] <fawek> i started an import about uhm.. 3 weeks ago
[20:35] <fawek> and since then, the import is still in progress
[20:54] <Rinchen> mwhudson_, ^^
[21:01] <mwhudson_> fawek: which import?
[21:02] <fawek> phpbb SVN
[21:03] <fawek> https://launchpad.net/phpbb
[21:06] <fawek> so, any idea?
[21:08] <mwhudson_> fawek: sorry, only just got up, so was fetching breakfast :)
[21:08]  * mwhudson_ looks
[21:08] <fawek> sure, np :)
[21:11] <mwhudson> fawek: so you mean https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/phpbb/2.0 https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/phpbb/3.0 ?
[21:13] <fawek> exactly
[21:14] <mwhudson> fawek: so we usually only import the trunk branch
[21:15] <mwhudson> fawek: because the import tool we use doesn't preserve branching information
[21:15] <fawek> hmm
[21:15] <fawek> okay, understand
[21:16] <mwhudson> so if you import a trunk and a branch separately the will have, from bzr's point of view, entirely unrelated histories
[21:17] <fawek> ok
[21:17] <fawek> thanks anyway for information
[21:19] <LEW21> mwhudson, so what about this: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/38712 ?
[21:20] <mwhudson> fawek: we don't seem to have a phpbb trunk import currently...
[21:20] <mwhudson> LEW21: ah hah
[21:21] <mwhudson> i should also point out that SF are blocking our import machines at the moment :/
[21:21] <mwhudson> so nothing is actually going to happen with these imports until that gets cleared up
[21:22] <LEW21> phpBB's SVN is not on SF
[21:24] <mwhudson> oh good
[21:26] <mwhudson> LEW21: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/phpbb/trunk
[21:26] <mwhudson> you many want to subsribe
[21:26]  * mwhudson afk briefly
[21:26] <LEW21> Thanks :D
[21:28]  * mwhudson fiddles about with the answer tracker
[21:30] <mwhudson> we've got to get better and dealing with our backlog of import requests
[21:31] <LEW21> :)
[22:39] <wgrant> Did somebody forget to put an announcement about the downtime before the downtime, or did they give an incorrect announcement with 2 hours notice?
[22:52] <Rinchen> wgrant, we forgot.  The person who normally does it is not here.
[22:54] <wgrant> Rinchen: So is it happening in an hour, which is late 16th, not early 16th?
[22:55] <Rinchen> wgrant, yes. It's my fault. Tom had issues with WP so I wrote the announcement. I'll fix that.
[22:55] <wgrant> Rinchen: Great, it got me rather confused.
[22:56] <Rinchen> wgrant, thanks for the catch.  I've updated it
[22:56] <Rinchen> normally we put out those items at least a week in advance
[22:56] <Rinchen> these last few weeks have been a moving target though
[22:56] <wgrant> IIRC 1.2.6 was just a few hours.
[22:56] <wgrant> That's much more clear - thanks.
[22:56] <wgrant> So there's going to be no escaping the new UI?
[22:57] <Rinchen> wgrant, you are correct. 
[22:57] <wgrant> The UI is being rolled out two weeks after it first appears, whereas the 1.0 UI took months?
[22:57] <Rinchen> on the short notice
[22:57] <Rinchen> I just checked the timestamps
[22:57] <wgrant> If you do want to be the centre of the software world, you should be giving more notice, really...
[22:58] <Rinchen> Yes, we should.
[22:58] <wgrant> Rather than telling everybody that you're going to shut down open source development for some hours an hour before you do it.
[22:59] <Rinchen> You also know we're moving towards not bringing down LP at all during upgrades
[22:59] <wgrant> Right.
[22:59] <Rinchen> And also implementing site-wide notifications
[22:59] <Rinchen> so, there is work going on there
[22:59] <wgrant> And has been for a couple of years now.
[22:59] <wgrant> It's been coming RSN for a real long time.
[22:59] <Rinchen> I've also requested that the next round of UI updates this fall are sent out for community comment earlier
[23:00] <Rinchen> there have been scheduling and technical issues 
[23:00] <wgrant> Sending select community members a mockup of a page that isn't even in 1.99 doesn't really count, right.
[23:02] <wgrant> Are you planning to have every page comply with the new 2.0 UI stuff for 2.0?"
[23:03] <Rinchen> that's the plan.  We missed some items that won't be ready until next week
[23:03] <Rinchen> and we're still finding some issues with pages that don't get much traffic
[23:03] <wgrant> s/some/most/?
[23:03] <Rinchen> product pages are the biggest
[23:03] <wgrant> I haven't seen many new-look pages.
[23:06] <ScottK> So far I've only noticed one user mention that they liked the new pages better than the old.
[23:06] <LaserJock> I've seen 2 I think
[23:06] <wgrant> A lot of the resistance will just be against change in general, but there are many legitimate issues...
[23:07] <ScottK> I'd like change for the better.  I just don't see a lot of it.
[23:07] <wgrant> (why do the branches say they are public when nobody seems to be meant to know about private branches?)
[23:08] <ScottK> The way the site runs without CSS or images is definitely better than it used to be.
[23:08] <Rinchen> I would recommend raising MOTU concerns through your Ubuntu contact as another means of resolution.
[23:08] <LaserJock> heh
[23:08] <ScottK> Rinchen: I think the entire direction is bad.  It's not going to change.
[23:08] <beuno> wgrant, that's so you know that you're viewing a private branch
[23:09] <Rinchen> In our next round of updates we're going to be focusing on distro related activities more (at least that is the intent) and not focus as much on project changes.
[23:09] <ScottK> Rinchen: I've already been told that my opinions are by definition not credible because I don't think it's getting better.
[23:10] <ScottK> When the development community nullifies bad news as inherently invalid, the odds of improvement aren't good.
[23:11]  * wgrant disappears to work, where we still use SourceForge. At least LP is still better than SF.
[23:11] <ScottK> I'm a particular fan of the practice of editing bugs users file into something other than what the user filed and then marking them invalid because the bug is wrong.
[23:12] <ScottK> At least on SF I can find stuff because it doesn't move.
[23:12] <ScottK> Although I agree the LP is much better in most respects.
[23:12] <wgrant> ScottK: Right. The UI is awful, but it doesn't mutate into something completely different every few months.
[23:13] <LaserJock> I wonder what SF looked like the first couple years
[23:13] <ScottK> Dunno, but LP is 4 years old now.
[23:13] <LaserJock> I haven't been around FLOSS long enough to remember I don't think
[23:14] <beuno> sourceforge seems to have changed quite a lot
[23:14] <beuno> http://web.archive.org/web/20000305051601/http://sourceforge.net/
[23:14] <beuno> http://web.archive.org/web/20010301155219/http://sourceforge.net/
[23:14] <mwhudson> their iptables have certainly changed :/
[23:14] <beuno> http://web.archive.org/web/20030324212248/http://sourceforge.net/
[23:26] <LaserJock> Rinchen: some distro-focused releases would probably help a lot
[23:26] <LaserJock> Rinchen: for instance only 18 motu-tagged bugs have been fixed
[23:27] <Rinchen> LaserJock, indeed.  kiko and I would like to bring focus back to the distro
[23:28] <LaserJock> I think much of the present angst is because we see a lot of effort going into things that don't help us (or at least we don't see any benefit)
[23:28] <LaserJock> so changing the UI around with no or very little benefit makes developers an unhappy lot
[23:32] <LaserJock> I'd hate to get to the point where somebody decides to launch bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[23:33] <Rinchen> you mean relaunch :-D
[23:33] <LaserJock> well, yeah
[23:34] <mwhudson> well, one pipe dream hope is that the apis will mean that people who really heavily use launchpad (like ~ubuntu-qa) can invent their own interfaces as they need it
[23:34] <Rinchen> There's a strategy to how we decide what get's developer time and what doesn't.   For MOTU, the best thing is to contact your Ubuntu rep (Daniel is it?) and ensure they know what your priorities are, and why.
[23:34] <elmo> LaserJock: err, except seriously, who thinks bugzilla is in any way shape or form better?
[23:35] <LaserJock> mwhudson: which sort of makes sense, except we should *have* to make our own interface, we have better things to do
[23:35] <Rinchen> LaserJock, of course, telling us doesn't hurt either 
[23:35] <mwhudson> outside the constraints of a browser, and outside of the fact that newbies and advanced people have to use the same page
[23:35] <ScottK> Rinchen: It's siretart_ now.
[23:35] <mwhudson> but yeah, more love for the distro coming
[23:35] <LaserJock> Rinchen: I was the MOTU rep for over a year and I talked a fair amount about this stuff
[23:36] <LaserJock> Rinchen: and I got 18 bugs fixed in that amount of time
[23:36] <Rinchen> sorry ScottK, I mean to say your canonical Ubuntu rep
[23:36] <ScottK> Rinchen: MOTU doesn't have such a thing.
[23:36] <Rinchen> that is shocking
[23:36] <ScottK> Canonical may have such a thing, but MOTU doesn't.
[23:37] <LaserJock> elmo: "better" wasn't neccesarily the argument for a bugzilla, control was
[23:37] <ScottK> LaserJock: With bugzilla at least you can have bugs block other bugs and help with work sequencing.
[23:37] <LaserJock> Rinchen: Daniel is something like "Development Community Manager" or some such, no formal relationship with MOTU really
[23:38] <Rinchen> interesting. I would have thought that with MOTUs contributions there would be a stronger connection there.  
[23:38] <LaserJock> why?
[23:38] <ScottK> He is a member of the MOTU Council, but he's one of 5.
[23:39] <ScottK> MOTU is a community lead effort.  We appreciate the resources that Canonical provides, but Canonical doesn't run it.
[23:39]  * ScottK wonders off to find his children....
[23:39] <elmo> ScottK: I'm pretty sure no one said that
[23:39] <LaserJock> elmo: has said what?
[23:39] <ScottK> elmo: Said my opinion wasn't credible because I like the old interface better?
[23:39] <Rinchen> I was going for the whole "how can we help the community so they can help us even more" route
[23:40] <elmo> LaserJock: claimed that Canonical run the MOTU
[23:40] <elmo> 23:39 < ScottK> MOTU is a community lead effort.  We appreciate the resources that Canonical provides, but  Canonical doesn't run it.
[23:40] <ScottK> Ah.
[23:40] <LaserJock> elmo: oh, right, yes. that is certainly true
[23:40] <elmo> specifically ^-- in relation to that
[23:40] <LaserJock> Rinchen: well, honestly, do what we ask and do it faster :-)
[23:40] <elmo> I mean, I know straw men are fun, but really...
[23:41] <Rinchen> LaserJock, well ... yeah but I was referencing it from the Ubuntu angle, in which I too am simply a community member
[23:41] <Rinchen> too many hats 
[23:42] <LaserJock> Rinchen:  we've got a Liasion, we tag bugs, we file bugs, we do Launchpad support ...
[23:42] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what exactly what more we can do on this end
[23:43] <Rinchen> effectiveness is what I was really going for
[23:43] <LaserJock> while I was Liaison, I was not allowed to see specs
[23:43] <Rinchen> how to be more effective with less blockages
[23:43] <LaserJock> I was never really informed about upcoming needs
[23:43] <Rinchen> hmm...
[23:43] <Rinchen> I get the feeling I'm prying into places I shouldn't be.
[23:44] <elmo> LaserJock: JOOI, do you guys maintain a wiki (or whatever) page with a prioritized list of your bugs/wishlists?
[23:44] <LaserJock> elmo: we file them
[23:44] <LaserJock> elmo: they are tagged "motu"
[23:44] <Rinchen> they use the MOTU bug tag elmo
[23:44] <LaserJock> which was supposed to give them a higher priority
[23:44] <Rinchen> it gives them visibility
[23:44] <LaserJock> which I really never saw beyond the first couple
[23:44] <LaserJock> the bigger problem though
[23:45] <LaserJock> is the specs
[23:45] <elmo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bugs?field.tag=motu
[23:45] <elmo> err, is that really it, or am I missing something?
[23:45] <LaserJock> I've been blindsided before (the status changes), even when I was in a BOF about it
[23:45] <LaserJock> elmo: no,  you need launchpad-project
[23:46] <LaserJock> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+bugs?field.tag=motu
[23:46] <elmo> ah, right
[23:46] <LaserJock> and I only tag them as they get fixed
[23:46] <LaserJock> or rather
[23:46] <LaserJock> I tag new bugs as others get fixed
[23:47] <LaserJock> so that there's roughly the same number of open bugs at any given time
[23:48] <LaserJock> another example was that I was never told about the Community Admin specs until I saw them on the milestone page
[23:48] <LaserJock> I'm not sure how you go about writing a spec called "Community Admin" without talking to the community ...
[23:49] <LaserJock> well, actually I do, that's what happened, but it would have been nice to talk with the community
[23:51] <LaserJock> unfortunately right now my impression from many other community developers is that Launchpad pad development is too little, too late
[23:51] <elmo> you mean soyuz community admin?
[23:51] <LaserJock> yes
[23:51] <elmo> what makes you think they didn't talk to people in the community about it?
[23:52] <LaserJock> they didn't talk to me or any motus I talked to
[23:52] <LaserJock> which are generally the people it's targetted for as I understand it
[23:52] <elmo> dude, it's a big community
[23:52] <LaserJock> dude, I was the Liaison
[23:52] <LaserJock> there was no mailing list discussion
[23:52] <elmo> and AFAIK, it's being driven in no small part by experience hobbsee has had trying to do release team stuff
[23:52] <elmo> (as a memeber of the community)
[23:53] <LaserJock> so from what I gather, Hobbsee == the community
[23:53] <elmo> LaserJock: dude, you're not being terribly reasonable about this
[23:53] <elmo> that was one example I happen to know about
[23:53] <LaserJock> I see
[23:53] <elmo> and look at it another way - you claim there's no community involvement AT ALL simply because you and no one you asked was involved?
[23:53] <LaserJock> yes
[23:53] <LaserJock> I think that's a very reasonable thing
[23:54] <LaserJock> the very people who, as I understand it, are the people the spec is for were not talked to
[23:54] <elmo> dude
[23:54] <elmo> the spec is 'soyuz is driven by running command line tools on drescher.  this sucks and doesn't scale, it needs a web ui, kthx'
[23:55] <LaserJock> I as told it was for MOTU to do archive admining
[23:55] <elmo> does it actually matter, _how_ they achieve that in the first instance, as long as they get it off of command line and onto the web?
[23:55] <elmo> I can't understand why you're complaining about a script that is nothing but a positive step for you guys
[23:55] <LaserJock> well, if I'm supposed to be getting teams together, etc. it's nice to know
[23:55] <ScottK> elmo: Lots of bugs on Launchpad aren't even filed because it's pointless.
[23:55] <elmo> ScottK: ...
[23:55] <elmo> ScottK: because, you know, not filing them is so pointful?
[23:55] <LaserJock> elmo: I'm certainly not complaining about it being done
[23:56] <elmo> (err, s/script/spec/)
[23:56] <ScottK> Because it's a waste of time I have better things to do with.
[23:56] <elmo> ScottK: like complain about how it's a waste of your time?
[23:56] <ScottK> elmo: That's explaining.
[23:57] <ScottK> I've recently started filing LP bugs again after taking a several month break.
[23:57] <elmo> seriously dudes, I'm not Launchpad's #1 fan a lot of the time either, but this is monumentally unconvincing
[23:57] <ScottK> We'll see if it's any better this time.
[23:58]  * ScottK isn't entirely certain a random number generator wasn't involved in the latest U/I redesign.
[23:58] <LaserJock> elmo: my point is that the things that have been done so far to make things better for the developers has been rather ineffective
[23:59]  * ScottK needs to run.
[23:59] <LaserJock> Launchpad is becoming increasingly more of a problem for developers
[23:59] <elmo> LaserJock: I don't disagree.   I just also don't think you guys are being at all productive in changing this, and I honestly think that's a shame because I'd like to see it change too
[23:59] <LaserJock> elmo: what am I supposed to do then?