[00:51] <s3a> does ubuntu 8.04's free software only mode have any proprietary drivers such as drivers for wireless cards in the kernel that are not open source?
[00:53] <pwnguin> it sounds like it shouldn't
[00:54] <pwnguin> i assume it works by not enabling -restricted or -multiverse
[00:54] <pwnguin> and "evil" drivers should be in restricted
[01:09] <s3a> pwnguin: lol im asking cuz both of my wireless cards work
[01:09] <s3a> pwnguin: i hadnt expected that
[01:10] <s3a> so wait the whole free software only mode is all about not enabling those 2 repositories??
[01:10] <s3a> but there is no proprietary content to begin with in either ubuntu, right?
[01:13] <s3a> by either ubuntu i mean the free and non free modes
[01:23] <pwnguin> define proprietary
[01:23] <pwnguin> nvidia drivers are closed source
[01:23] <pwnguin> with a small wedge layer so they work, technically, and sometimes legally
[01:24] <pwnguin> s3a: the free software mode is about making sure those repos are accurate
[01:25] <pwnguin> i would have loved to have seen it become something like a project to both identify non free software and promote free alternatives, but that appears to have not been a priority
[01:25] <s3a> ok so the ubuntu without the free software only mode has no proprietary software installed but has the repositories for proprietary stuff enabled..thats the only difference?
[01:26] <pwnguin> what else is there?
[01:26] <pwnguin> a different background?
[01:26] <s3a> well, wireless cards drivers and i no video card drivers are free so i guess it is fully free
[01:26] <s3a> i cant think of anything proprietary
[01:26] <s3a> other
[01:26] <s3a> than the
[01:27] <s3a> artwork for firefox which doesnt matter since it doesnt get in the way of the freedoms and helps firefox keep its identity
[01:27] <pwnguin> logos and trademarks are tricky
[01:27] <pwnguin> but this is starting to have less to do with the kernel
[01:27] <s3a> pwnguin: o ya lol but so ya the kernel is 100% free then?
[01:28] <pwnguin> i assume so -- I haven't tried it
[01:29] <pwnguin> what i do know is that gobuntu failed at its mission
[01:29] <s3a> and wat do kernel upgrades do rely? it allows to see more hardware?
[01:29] <s3a> pwnguin: ya cuz of gnewsense
[01:29] <s3a> i tried to go there
[01:29] <s3a> but they didnt have a 64 bit
[01:30] <pwnguin> well, gobuntu was also created because of gnewsense
[01:30] <s3a> i would use gnewsense if it had 64 bit
[01:31] <s3a> ya but developpers dint want to develop it bcuz of repositories??! like wat kind of reason is that, u can have the proprietary stuff disabled by default
[01:32] <pwnguin> i havent followed it closely, but i suspect gnewsense developers didn't want to rely on launchpad
[01:34] <s3a> pwnguin: launchpad is proprietary?
[01:34] <pwnguin> launchpad is owned by canonical and not all the source code is available
[01:35] <s3a> o sh*t
[01:35] <pwnguin> of course, it's also nowhere near stable, and I suspect one of their goals requires a stable abi
[01:35] <s3a> y is canonical of all ppl being like that??
[01:35] <pwnguin> api really
[01:35] <s3a> wait wats abi and api
[01:36] <pwnguin> in the context of web software, the meaning of urls in relationship to the data they access
[01:37] <pwnguin> I suspect the goal of launchpad is to create a distributed bug tracker in the same way we have a distributed code tracker
[01:38] <pwnguin> I believe ive read that once they're satisfied that launchpad is capable of tracking another instance of itself, they'll release the code
[01:38] <pwnguin> i think they've released the code to rosetta or something as a goodwill gesture
[01:40] <pwnguin> and like i said, it's still moving. they just redid the UI last week
[01:41] <pwnguin> once you release the code, you'll have people who won't upgrade despite the code being "alpha"/"beta"; like a filesystem, you're doomed to worrying about it until the last user dissapears
[02:17] <s3a> pwnguin: u kinda lost me but i have to eat breakfast now anyway
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=== emgent_ is now known as emgent
=== makx_ is now known as maks_
[14:20] <soren> 20:59:09 < soren> amitk: Wow, that's convenient. make mrproper nukes the debian/ directory even if you've spent 3-4 hours tweaking it and haven't  committed any of it.
[14:20] <alex_joni> soren: yeah, it's quite fun.. I've got bitten by it a couple times too
[14:24] <amitk> soren: that was always the case :)
[14:25] <amitk> it is a conflict between the in-kernel config system vs. debian
[14:28] <soren> amitk: Ok. It doesn't help much that if there's cruft in the tree, make helpfully tells me that "hey, you should try running mrproper".
[14:28] <soren> ...and so I did, and then the dear Mr. Proper ate 4 hours of my work.
[14:28]  * soren is not a fan of Mr. Proper anymore.
[14:31] <amitk> soren: you probably ran a 'make menuconfig' in the directory :)
[14:36] <alex_joni> amitk: how do you generate the config file usually?
[14:39] <amitk> alex_joni: tied up in a meeting that requires my attention. Catch me tomorrow please....
[14:39] <alex_joni> amitk: sure, no hurry..
[14:51] <soren> amitk: No, I think I acutally ran dpkg-buildpackage -b.
[14:51] <soren> I never ran menuconfig
[15:48] <gnomefreak> 2.6.16.4 broke uspash. 
[15:48] <gnomefreak> oops 
[15:48] <gnomefreak> 2.6.26.4
[16:14] <maks_> ther is no uspash
[16:21] <gnomefreak> there was 
[16:22] <gnomefreak> prior to .4 update i had a uslash (are we dropping it? or is it just meant not to have one)?
[17:11] <AlexCONRAD> hi, I just installed the 8.04.1 alternate xubuntu. It seems that I no longer seem to need to install an alternative driver from realtek to make my RTL8111C network card to work (r8168/r8169 modules)
[17:35] <BenC> alex_joni: excellent
[18:22] <alex_joni> BenC: meant AlexCONRAD?
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[19:23] <BenC> alex_joni: yeah, stupid nick completion :)
[20:06] <stgraber> BenC: if you happen to have a second, can you fix bug 246222 ? it shouldn't take more than a minute to fix it in git so I can use my custom dsdt with the next kernel :) (not that I don't like the sound of my lappy fan going full speed all the time ...)
[20:06] <stgraber> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/246222 (as you don't have ubottu here)
[20:33] <stgraber> BenC: thanks
[22:28] <solarion> anyone around to help diagnose an eSATA problem?
[22:28] <solarion> I gots tasty error messages!
[22:36] <solarion> no takers?  It could be interesting