[00:18] <Saniok> hi to all
[01:08] <effie_jayx> hey all
[01:13] <nickellery> hi, I'm an ubuntu member requesting an IRC cloak
[01:13] <nickellery> launchpad.net/~nick.ellery
[01:15] <nalioth> interesting
[01:59] <effie_jayx> nalioth, who should I talk to about handing over the founder status of a channel
[02:01] <nalioth> effie_jayx: depends on the channel.  what's up?
[02:01] <effie_jayx> #ubuntu-ve was founded by me
[02:01] <effie_jayx> I want to set it to the current LoCo contact as I plan to resign from my IRC duties
[02:02] <effie_jayx> op duties
[02:02] <effie_jayx> that is
[02:02] <effie_jayx> nalioth,  does that make sense?
[02:08] <nalioth> of course
[02:08] <nalioth>   /msg chanserv help set
[02:08] <nalioth> you want to look at the founder option
[09:58] <huats> hello everyone
[09:58] <huats> elkbuntu: hey
[09:58] <huats> elkbuntu: do you remember last week the pb we had with the ban limit ?
[09:58] <huats> elkbuntu: we are still facing it...
[09:59] <huats> elkbuntu: I talked to seanw the freenode staffer to you send to me, but since another staffer had looked at it, he couldn't do anything (which I fully understand)
[10:00] <huats> the problem is that this other staffer (nalioth), has not explained anything to us....
[10:01] <huats> and when I try to talk to me and explain his decision (I am asking that since I am the leader of the loco and that this pb affects the loco) he says "you already had an answer ", which is false... and he refuses to say anything more...
[10:01] <huats> I have to admit that I am a bit loss...
[10:07] <tomaw> huats: can't you remove some of the old bans?
[10:08] <huats> tomaw: it has already been
[10:08] <huats> lots and lots of time
[10:08] <huats> but we are always near the limit
[10:09] <huats> the last time we removed bans, we were still around 40
[10:09] <huats> we are a big big loco
[10:09] <huats> and this is our main channel
[10:09] <huats> ...
[10:10] <huats> the pb is that some guys, try to come back very often (even if they were banned a long time ago)
[10:13] <tomaw> can you replace the bans for those people with chanserv akicks?
[10:14] <tomaw> it's a tiny bit more noisy but it should allow you to keep the actual ban listing shorter
[10:14] <tomaw> It's just a suggestion.  I don't know the reasons why nalioth said no and am in the same situation as seanw in that I'm not willing to grant it if he said no.
[10:15] <huats> tomaw: i will talk to the guys in charge of dealing with irc pbs of the locos about your solutions
[10:16] <huats> I fully understand your point tomaw (for not changing the decision of nalioth)
[10:16] <huats> the thing I don't understand is why he refuses to explain it...
[10:16] <huats> i've talked to him, asking him a reason, and he never answer...
[10:17] <huats> there is no dicsussion at all... that is why I am a bit dispointed
[10:17] <huats> I think every decision can be admit, but not one which is not explained...
[11:03] <kirjava1> evening folks
[11:03] <Myrtti> gday
[11:05] <kirjava1> how many different portions (spererated by slashes) can you have in freenode claoks?
[11:05] <kirjava1> *cloaks
[11:05] <kirjava1> would it be possible (for example) to have kirjava@ubuntu/locos/nz/kirjava ?
[15:44] <emgent> PriceChild: ping
[15:45] <nalioth> huats: the problem is that several of you have come forward as " the leader of #ubuntu-fr ", and requested the same thing.  the situation got explained by PriceChild and myself to one of you.  perhaps you need to get your group together and find out exactly what is going on?
[15:46] <huats> nalioth: glad I can talk to you again
[15:47] <huats> nalioth: to sum up, we are a very big loco... so indeed we have dedicated leaders (or at least group of responsible) for some part of the loco... I am the leader of the whole loco (not just #ubuntu-fr)
[15:47] <huats> that is why I come to talk to you...
[15:48] <huats> and clearly I don't see your point in refusing to explain it to me...
[15:48] <huats> because when I ask all the other guys each of them told me that there was no explanations at all...
[15:48] <huats> this is why I want to clarify that situation
[15:50] <huats> and honnestly I am not really sure that you behaviour (of refusing discussion) really helps to solve our pb...
[15:50] <nalioth> i am not "refusing discussion", i am tired of a new person showing up once a week saying they're the responsible party
[15:51] <huats> nalioth: but just say it...
[15:51] <nalioth> PriceChild: and myself have evaluated your request and you guys do not utilize your banlist properly
[15:51] <huats> nalioth: ok, can you detail a little more ?
[15:52] <nalioth> well, there are bans there that are very much out of date
[15:52] <nalioth> there were redundant entries there
[15:53] <huats> nalioth: all that has been cleared after you mention that to the guys in charge of our irc (and for the record I am here to talk to you, since the have the feeling that you are not answering them... this is why they asked me to contact you...)
[15:56] <huats> and regarding "a new person showing up once a week saying they're the responsible party" there is noone above me, in the french loco, you can ask around :)
[15:59] <nalioth> huats: well, we had the channel owner come here, and another fellow before him
[16:00] <nalioth> and the fact that you cleared a few bans doesn't mean y'all aren't gonna put 'em back  ( otw, they'd not have been there in the first place )
[16:02] <huats> nalioth: i trust my guys when they told me that they have cleared all the bans they can
[16:02] <nalioth> but you're missing the point
[16:02] <huats> probably
[16:02] <nalioth> there will be no +u.
[16:02] <huats> that is why I want to talk to you :)
[16:07] <huats> +u ? what do you mean ?
[16:08] <nalioth> er, +L
[16:08] <huats> ok
[16:08] <huats> but from my point of view you haven't still explained me why...
[16:08] <huats> you tell me : go and clear you ban list... that is what we do...
[16:08] <nalioth> banning folks with *away* *brb* *afk* and such is just petty
[16:09] <nalioth> clearing the ban list doesn't change how you guys ban people
[16:09] <huats> nalioth: ok
[16:09] <huats> that is just what I wanted from you... a clear explanations...
[16:10] <nalioth> PriceChild: and I feel that if you get an extended ban list for your channel, it'll be full of petty, ancient bans ( because if you have an extended ban list, you'll need to remove old bans less often )
[16:11] <huats> ok
[16:11] <huats> I get your point...
[16:11] <huats> that is all I wanted...
[16:11] <huats> thanks for taking the time for this explanation
[16:11] <huats> now I can come back and talk to my guys...
[16:12] <huats> but on the otherhand if we tend to come back to the limit, without all this "petty" bans, I won't hesitate to come back to you...
[16:12] <huats> you agree ?
[16:12] <huats> (I insist on the "without all these petty bans")
[16:13] <nalioth> petty and ancient bans
[16:13] <huats> ancient bans too...
[16:13] <Pici> It is probably a good idea to go through the ban list and figure out why each one is there.
[16:14] <huats> Pici: that is what I am going our IRC guys to do...
[16:14] <Pici> :)
[16:14] <huats> thanks a lot
[16:14] <nalioth> a lot of your bans are out of date ( if they have been set by the server, and of a numeric hostname, they're probably out of date )
[16:14] <nalioth> bans are not "fire and forget"
[16:15] <nalioth> this is Ubuntu and we give folks second (and third) chances
[16:16] <huats> nalioth: sure
[16:16] <huats> nalioth: but who someone insist in being inpolite or insulting we have to ban him
[16:16] <nalioth> i understand.
[16:17] <huats> nalioth: the problem is that in France most of us have fixed IP, even from home
[16:17] <huats> so the pb is that even old ban might still need to be in application...
[16:17] <Pici> But a month later, is that user going to come back? Probably not.
[16:17] <nalioth> you don't think people can change?
[16:18] <huats> Pici: and nalioth of course people can change
[16:18] <huats> but when someone gets banned
[16:18] <huats> we remove its ban, and comes back 2 months later (we had many times that)
[16:19] <huats> I tend question myself :)
[16:20] <Pici> huats: But surely not everyone is like that
[16:20] <huats> apparently we had really a lot of people acting like that
[16:21] <nalioth> bans should last 24h, unless you have other reasons to extend them
[16:21] <huats> 24h ?
[16:22] <huats> ok
[16:22] <Pici> 24 hours
[16:22] <nalioth> 24 hours
[16:22] <huats> (I understood)
[16:22] <huats> ok, I'll talk to my guys about that
[16:22] <huats> ...
[16:23] <huats> i'll ask them to have a register of all the guys who have been banned and that come back, after the 24h ban...
[16:23] <nalioth> a PM to folks that come to your channel with "Hey, we're here for FLOSS collaboration, not insults and such and so on  ( preach the Ubuntu way [ not the Debian way]) "
[16:24] <huats> it is lots of work (the register I mention) but it might all of us, if we face the limit pb again...
[16:28] <huats> nalioth: thanks for the discussion... I mean it...
[16:29] <huats> It might help us to improve our irc channels...
[16:29] <huats> and at least I know what were your point
[16:32] <emgent> nalioth: can you forward #ubuntu-flybook in #ubuntu-mobile ?
[16:42] <nalioth> emgent: what is #ubuntu-flybook ?
[16:43] <emgent> nalioth: channel for support flybook V5 (Dialuge) but it`s possile forward in ubuntu-mobile
[16:44] <nalioth> not sure why a ebook tablet channel needs to forward to #ubuntu-mobile
[16:51] <emgent> nalioth: i talked about dholbach for it
[16:52] <emgent> nalioth: http://en.emanuele-gentili.com/index.php/2008/06/23/ubuntu-flybook-team-is-up/
[16:52] <emgent> see daniel comment.
[16:54] <emgent> but I work mainly in Ubuntu Security
[16:54] <emgent> I'm Ubuntu MOTU Security Devel.
[16:54] <emgent> ops worng room
[19:56] <Pici> ...
[20:02] <Myrtti> lovely
[22:28] <PriceChild> nalioth: emgent owns the channel in question... *sends him a link to moving channels*
[22:31] <nalioth> ah, very good then
[22:37] <PriceChild> emgent just acknowledged