[05:05] <newz2000> sorry guys, I didn't get the email sent about the meeting, I will have to send it tomorrow
[15:06] <Volans> Hi all! newz2000 have you 5 minutes?
[15:07] <newz2000> Hey Volans, sure
[15:07] <Volans> first of all, have you talk with lizzeh or other active members for the meeting?
[15:07] <newz2000> I'm just going to send an email... already started compzing in fact
[15:09] <Volans> ok, the second is your opinion about 3 bugs
[15:10] <Volans> 1) a fridge bug, like the background problem, you tell me about a new theme in the Fridge, but when you think to upload it?
[15:12] <newz2000> right now the fridge problem is low on my priority list so I've not scheduled a time to do it
[15:13] <newz2000> I've created a better template (though fixed width) and uploaded it, but it's just an html file, not a drupal theme
[15:14] <Volans> and release a little fix (probably 1 line in css) to resolve at least the background problem in the meantime?
[15:14] <Volans> (you think that can be a good compromise between time to spent on and results)
[15:14] <newz2000> what is the background problem?
[15:31] <Volans> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/about
[15:31] <Volans> you don't see a background problem?
[15:31] <Volans> (sorry for the delay, I have see only now your reply, the tab does not flashed)
[15:32] <newz2000> ah, that prob
[15:32] <newz2000> Volans: I see it, just forgot about it.
[15:33] <newz2000> (short content)
[15:33] <Volans> you can solve it (I think for all browsers except IE6 and below) simply adding: min-height:582px; at styles.css:27 class #contentr
[15:34] <newz2000> ok, I'll do that right now
[15:34] <Volans> at least 582px, maybe some more pixel will be better in order to avoid problem
[15:34] <Volans> with different pixel dimensions for different browsers
[15:34]  * newz2000 tries to remember what server that's on
[15:34] <Volans> LOL
[15:35] <Volans> .183 marais
[15:35] <Volans> ;)
[15:36] <newz2000> Volans: done
[15:36] <newz2000> thanks for the quick fix suggestion
[15:36] <Volans> no problem, can you check also for windows browsers?
[15:37] <Volans> (or I can start the VM)
[15:37] <newz2000> I have a vm open
[15:37] <newz2000> I'm sure that it won't work in ie6
[15:37] <Volans> seems good on FF2
[15:37] <Volans> for IE6 and the known problem of min-height I have found a good solution
[15:37] <Volans> in general
[15:38] <newz2000> it works in ie7 though, which is interesting... I didn't know it had min-height
[15:39] <Volans> if you have a div you want to add a min-height and it is in a page with many other divs floating or not, I found that putting another div works for ie6
<div class="minheight">content</div></div>
[15:40] <Volans> or at least works for me in many cases :)
[15:41] <newz2000> so in a sense just clearing the floated divs with a non-floated div
[15:41] <newz2000> neat idea
[15:41] <Volans> if you have IE6 open
[15:41] <Volans> try for example this http://forum.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?action=search
[15:42] <newz2000> whoa
[15:42] <Volans> the div id="bodyarea" have a min-height
[15:42] <newz2000> the fridge is totally messed up in ie6
[15:43] <Volans> I never tried, but thinking about due to the strange position of the top div that is at the bottom in the code
[15:43] <newz2000> I don't know... it's like all of the text is white
[15:43]  * Volans starting the VM... too curious
[15:45] <newz2000> the new theme I'm using is currently in place on https://shipit.ubuntu.com
[15:45] <newz2000> it seems to work well across browsers
[15:46] <newz2000> there is the "flash of unstyled content" problem in IE though I need to fix.
[15:47] <Volans> newz2000: why shipit have as favicon the new launchpad logo?
[15:47] <newz2000> ah, didn't notice that... shipit is part of launchpad
[15:48] <Volans> not clear from the site layout ;) seems to be ubuntu site
[15:49] <Volans> ehm with IE6 I don't see the content on the fridge...
[15:49] <newz2000> right, that's the problem I mentioned
[15:49] <Volans> I can help for that? (I understand that for you is a very low priority problem)
[15:50] <newz2000> if you'd like to, that's fine... or if you want, you can help create a drupal theme from the shipit theme
[15:51] <newz2000> either option will mean you become boredandblogging new best friend
[15:51] <Volans> LOL, sincerly I never worked on drupal themes... but I have experience of themes for other CMS
[15:52] <newz2000> drupal is easier than most... for example, far easier than wordpress
[15:52] <Volans> shipit now is a standalone site, without a cms behind?
[15:53] <newz2000> correct... it has been from as far back as I know
[15:53] <Volans> ok, I will look what I can do
[15:53] <newz2000> I can help you... I have an html file
[15:54] <Volans> good starting point :)
[15:55] <newz2000> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/layout-guide-helper.png
[15:55] <newz2000> oops
[15:55] <newz2000> no, that's not it
[15:55] <newz2000> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/ubuntu08.zip
[15:56] <newz2000> so what might surprise you when you look at this file is that I used a css framework called blueprint to create the layout and handle typography and a full reset
[15:56] <Volans> ok
[15:57] <Volans> the other 2 bugs are simpler... for bug 188297 I don't know your opinion... the pdf seems clear and looks good
[15:57] <ubot3> Malone bug 188297 in ubuntu-website "Website [stylesheet probably] Problem." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188297
[15:57] <Volans> ops
[15:58] <Volans> not this one
[15:58] <newz2000> and here's an examle drupal theme for you to use https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~newz/ubuntu-website/ubuntu07
[15:58] <Volans> this one bug 185398
[15:58] <ubot3> Malone bug 185398 in ubuntu-website "Add developer playbook to the development page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185398
[16:00] <newz2000> oh, awesome
[16:14] <Volans> newz2000: How many IE6-compatibility is required for the sites managed by you and the team?
[16:14] <newz2000> IE 6 is needed for ubuntu.com, but I'm satisfied with "site is readable but not perfect"
[16:15] <Volans> have you read this article? http://googleonlinesecurity.blogspot.com/2008/07/are-you-using-latest-web-browser.html
[16:16] <Volans> cit. "Only 52.5% of Microsoft Internet Explorer users have updated to version 7"
[16:16] <newz2000> yes, but I'm quite certain that stat is wrong...
[16:16] <newz2000> oh, wait, maybe not
[16:17] <newz2000> here's what I know about our users... on www.ubuntu.com which is the most trafficked site of ours by IE users (other sites have smaller % of IE users than www.u.c) less than 15% are using IE6
[16:17] <newz2000> 15% is a lot, so I want to ensure the site is navigable and readable
[16:17] <Volans> I agree!
[16:18] <newz2000> so for example, ubuntu.com has a white line going down the right side
[16:18] <newz2000> it doesn't hinder usability. Its not ideal (and the new theme fixes that) but it's not a big deal.
[16:18] <newz2000> to me
[16:19] <newz2000> Volans: that's a neat article
[16:20] <Volans> ok, in my previous work every browser used by more than 1-2% of users must be compatible
[16:20] <vbabiy> newz2000: do we have a launchpad time?
[16:20] <vbabiy> team
[16:21] <newz2000> vbabiy: not really. There's one for bugs if you're interested in that.
[16:21] <newz2000> we will at some point have a team
[16:21] <newz2000> Volans: ﻿I don't know if you had a chance to look at that theme...
[16:21] <newz2000> you'll see there's a subtle diff in the drop shadow
[16:21] <newz2000> the designers who made the original concept did something horrible with the drop shadow
[16:21] <Volans> news the shipit theme?
[16:21] <newz2000> yes
[16:22] <Volans> online or in the code?
[16:22] <newz2000> if you download that zip file and open it you can view the theme in your browser
[16:22] <newz2000> but shipit is ok to
[16:22] <newz2000> the original ubuntu theme has a drop shadow that extends out both the left and right side and overlays a gradient background
[16:23] <newz2000> this is harder to implment that it seems at first
[16:23] <newz2000> so the new ubuntu08 theme gets rid of the drop shadow on the sides, its just on the bottom
[16:23] <Volans> downloaded the zip, not already open it, I was working on the opera bug
[16:23] <newz2000> which allows the markup and css to be far simpler
[16:23] <Volans> ah ok
[16:24] <newz2000> anyway, that one fix makes life far easier and now the theme should work great in all major browsers
[16:24] <Volans> we have the side and bottom shadow and I have worked hard to make it almost compatible with all browser and ie6
[16:25] <newz2000> so you have felt the pain eh?
[16:25] <vbabiy> Hey have you guys seen the post I did on the Wiki? Any suggestion? One thing I noticed this morning the side bar is a little to large I think and I still need new fonts. Tonight I am going to work on the screen shot widget and maybe the descriptions part.
[16:25] <newz2000> vbabiy: yes, I did
[16:25] <newz2000> I agree the text on the side is too large
[16:25] <vbabiy> newz2000: yeah that still needs some work
[16:26] <newz2000> I think you've done some good work there
[16:26] <newz2000> before you do a lot more we should discuss some goals
[16:26] <vbabiy> sounds good to me
[16:26] <newz2000> I'll say again, I want the community to drive this one as much as possible, but I'd like to ask some probing questions
[16:26] <vbabiy> I am really starting to like Inkscape for web work
[16:27] <newz2000> yeah, me too
[16:28] <vbabiy> newz2000: I am all ears, I would also love this to be a community thing not something I put together
[16:29] <vbabiy> newz2000: I think once people start seeing more work done, they will start throwing in suggestions
[16:29] <newz2000> yes, I agree
[16:29] <newz2000> let's do the probing questions during the meeting
[16:29] <newz2000> I'm about to send the email now
[16:29] <vbabiy> newz2000: okay, I will work what I can till then
[16:29] <newz2000> (just doing some timezone calculations)
[16:29] <vbabiy> newz2000: I hate that, always confuse my self. :D, good luck
[16:30] <newz2000> vbabiy: one line of questioning I was going to bring up goes along these lines: (for you to ponder)
[16:31] <newz2000> how many screenshots do we want, do we want to give people a walk-through of the desktop so they can feel like they're sitting in front of it, should people be able to navigate through the images and if so, how?
[16:31] <vbabiy> newz2000: I am going to write up my answer to the question, so I can ready for the meeting
[16:31] <newz2000> ok
[16:32] <newz2000> One thing I'd like to request, but I won't insist on, is the ability to see larger images than you can see on the current feature tour
[16:32] <newz2000> maybe a "click here to view larger" or something like that
[16:32]  * Volans back
[16:33] <Volans> newz2000: I'm working on the opera bug for the planet and upgrading to the latest opera I notice that there is a very horribly shadow effect on the titles of planet's post
[16:34] <newz2000> orly?
[16:34] <Volans> opera 9.51 on planet.ubuntu.com for example
[16:35] <vbabiy> newz2000: I agree to be able to enlarge the images would be a benefit for older, and visual impaired people.
[16:35] <Volans> and also on www.ubuntu.com the top menu icons (red arrows) are overlapping the menu titles
[16:35] <newz2000> I'll have to get opera, I don't seem to have it installed anymore
[16:36] <vbabiy> newz2000: is it in the repos
[16:36] <newz2000> I don't see it
[16:36] <Volans> in my XP VM I have IE from 5.5 to 7, safari, opera, FF2 and FF3
[16:37] <vbabiy> sudo apt-get install opera
[16:37] <newz2000> says not available
[16:37] <vbabiy> newz2000: I am installing now
[16:37] <newz2000> hardy?
[16:37] <vbabiy> yeah
[16:37] <newz2000> oh, partner repo was turned off
[16:38] <vbabiy> Yeah I got 9.27
[16:39] <vbabiy> okay guys I am got to run, newz2000 looking forward to meeting
[16:40] <newz2000> ok. ttyl. keep up the nice work.
[16:40] <Volans> bye vbabiy, very good work in the wiki
[16:40] <vbabiy> thanks Volans
[16:44] <Volans> newz2000: for the jcastro pdf you want I assign the bug to you or set it directly to fix released (if you want to do that)?
[16:45] <newz2000> go ahead and assign it to me
[16:45] <newz2000> I'm getting behind on my bugs while trying to work on a little project, but I'm hoping to clear those out tomorrow
[16:46] <Volans> ok
[16:47] <Volans> done, and what about the guys with black DE themes that have white default color for text in browsers?
[16:47] <Volans> (there is a bug about that, but this is a choice I think, not real a bug :))
[16:48] <newz2000> no, this is a bug actually
[16:48] <newz2000> I investigated it and I need to specify both a text color and a background color or specify neither
[16:48] <newz2000> by specifying one then the other defaults to the OS and causes a prob
[16:49] <Volans> yeah
[16:50] <Volans> both is better
[16:50] <Volans> you are sure what the user will see
[16:51] <newz2000> Volans, does this sound right?
[16:52] <newz2000>     6:00 in Brisbane (Australia) which is 2000 UTC/2100 London or 0230 India
[16:52] <newz2000>     7:00 in Alaska (USA) which is 11am Eastern US or 1500 UTC/1600 London
[16:52] <Volans> let me check
[16:55] <Volans> the first line will be 1:30 in India, they don't have DST
[16:55] <newz2000> thanks
[16:56] <Volans> 7:00 in alaska will be 1:00 in the night in brisbane...
[16:56] <Volans> and possible time also for india
[16:56] <newz2000> ﻿I wonder what the best way to collect the votes is, do you have an idea?
[16:57] <newz2000> we can have votes go to the list as replies... any other option?
[16:57] <Volans> no list replies no... 80 email only for that
[16:57] <newz2000> yeah
[16:57] <Volans> you have an ubuntuforums test site???
[16:57] <Volans> :D
[16:57] <newz2000> no, sorry
[16:58] <newz2000> we could do a shared google spreadsheet or a wiki page
[16:58] <newz2000> I use google spreadsheets for church events and it works ok
[16:58] <Volans> wiki page can be a solution... and what of a webservice?
[16:59] <newz2000> I'm not sure we have enough time to pull it off... I know I couldn't get it done in time
[16:59] <Volans> no no, not your service...
[16:59] <Volans> a web based already poll service
[16:59] <Volans> I'm searching on google and there are many
[17:00] <newz2000> oh, I see
[17:00] <newz2000> there are four options (two times, two days). We could use something that gives them the option to rate their choices 1,2,3,4
[17:01] <newz2000> we may want to get their name so we can eliminate options where key people can't attend
[17:05] <Volans> or a wiki page...
[17:06] <Volans> I have the idea...
[17:07] <Volans> fopr the wiki
[17:13] <Volans> newz2000: I think we have to put a date limit for the poll...
[17:16] <Volans> newz2000: I have the wiki page ready, if you have the 2 date I will put directly the final datetimes...
[17:17] <newz2000>     2000 UTC/2100 London which is 0600 in Brisbane (Australia) and 0130 India
[17:17] <newz2000>     1500 UTC/1600 London which is 0700 in Alaska (USA) and 11am Eastern US
[17:17] <newz2000>     Tuesday, July 22nd UTC
[17:17] <newz2000>      Friday, July 25th UTC
[17:18] <Volans> ok
[17:18] <Volans> how many time the meeting will continue?
[17:19] <newz2000> I'm going to shoot for 40m but let's say 40 - 60m
[17:19] <Volans> only????
[17:19] <Volans> I have attended the last mozilla team meeting
[17:20] <Volans> theoretically of 1h30m... but really more
[17:20] <newz2000> wow, no, I can't handle that
[17:20] <newz2000> if we need to go longer we'll schedule another meeting because obviously we're not prepared enough
[17:20] <Volans> ok
[17:21] <newz2000> we don't have a huge agenda for this meeting
[17:27] <newz2000> Volans: do you have a link to the wiki? My email is ready.
[17:27] <Volans> yes, just one minute
[17:30] <Volans> newz2000: what is your vote for the 4 options? :)
[17:30] <Volans> I have put from 0 to 3
[17:30] <Volans> 0 = no attend, 3 best choice
[17:30] <newz2000> I'm equally fine with all four
[17:31] <Volans> I can put yourself as first voter?
[17:31] <newz2000> sure
[17:33] <Volans> just decide the poll end... july 20?
[17:33] <newz2000> noon UTC on 21st
[17:37] <Volans> newz2000: check it out before send the mail ;) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/Meetings
[17:39] <newz2000> looks great
[17:39] <newz2000> I've got agenda items already, let me add them
[17:39] <Volans> newz2000: have you checked fridge agenda for those datetimes?
[17:40] <newz2000> no, since we're meeting in this channel I didn't feel it was necessary
[17:40] <newz2000> is it necessary?
[17:41] <Volans> ah no, sure... I'm thinking about #ubuntu-meeting, sorry
[17:49] <newz2000> email sent. Thanks a bunch Volans.
[17:50] <Volans> it was a pleasure
[17:52] <Volans> received
[17:58] <Volans> for the black/white problem, I'm trying with a high inverted contrast theme... it seems quite simple
[18:00] <Volans> just add in the body { color: #000; } and add a body input { background-color: #fff; }
[18:00] <Volans> I have cheched only the homepage
[18:01] <newz2000> Volans: would you go ahead and just note that in the bug?
[18:01] <Volans> sure! you need also to check that every site have a background specified
[18:01] <newz2000> ok
[18:04] <Volans> I made some test before...
[18:18] <Volans> newz2000: I have some problem with radio and check boxes... seems that they don't give the color from the css.. I have tried with a input, textarea, select {} entry in the css
[18:18] <Volans> but around the web I found that this is the right way
[18:18] <Volans> perhaps you know some trick?
[18:19] <newz2000> I've found that adding styles to inputs can cause problems. For example, in ff3 once you assign some styles the inputs stopping looking like the OS widgets and start looking like plain ole ugly buttons and etc
[18:20] <newz2000> I'd have to try it to see what you're experienceing though
[18:20]  * Volans trying ff3
[18:21] <Volans> yes, not so ugly in my case but there is a noticeable difference
[18:22] <Volans> my changes now are on commons.css line 82
[18:22] <Volans> adding a color: #000; in the body statement and adding just below a:
[18:22] <Volans> input, textarea, select { color: #000; background-color: #fff; }
[18:24] <Volans> oh, I have found an epiphany bug while surfing... :)
[18:28] <Volans> you need to do a width trough the css or style option for the select tag, in the download page the choose mirror select in epiphany go over the right border (although the last part is not visible, the same effect of overflow:hidden)
[18:28] <Volans> s/to do/to set/
[18:29] <newz2000> I thought I did that...
[18:29] <newz2000> oh, I did it in code to truncate the length of the text
[18:30] <Volans> seems that epiphany wants the width of the select tag explicitly
[18:33] <Volans> Now I have to go.... I will investigate more on the white/black problem as I'm interested on that and I will try to find the time to work on the drupal theme ;)
[18:33] <newz2000> thanks, Volans
[18:33]  * Volans back to a clear theme... 
[18:34] <Volans> don't mention it... :) see you, bye bye
[19:34] <kilps> hi all ... i was wondering if there are any plans atm for a software / package directory - i cant see anything in the wiki but maybe i missed it?
[19:41] <newz2000> kilps: there is http://packages.ubuntu.com - is that what you had in mind or something else?
[19:43] <kilps> ya i know about packages.ubuntu.com - but that isnt really geared towards the average user ... i was thinking more along the lines of the comparison of the Add/Remove dialog to synaptic ... but hopefully more powerful
[19:43] <newz2000> nothing like that is currently planned
[19:43] <kilps> perhaps in a wiki format ... but something which just had general information about software with comments etc.
[19:44] <kilps> do you think that there would be interest in such an idea?
[19:44] <newz2000> there may be ,but it's probably out of the scope of this team
[19:44] <newz2000> is this something you want to do kilps?
[19:45] <kilps> oks cool ... um im not really sure - something i thought of yesterday so trying to get an idea of if it would be worthwhile - would have to balance it with a number of other projects i have on the go though
[19:46] <newz2000> I understand. If its something you want to do, we can support you, but I think there are higher priority tasks for the team to take on first
[19:47] <kilps> ok cool - ill keep track of what is going on and if i get around to starting anything or see someone with a similar idea ill get in touch
[19:47] <newz2000> ok
[19:52] <kilps> just for interest some of the comments at http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/103/ suggest something similar to my idea - see "2cents wrote on the 24 Apr 08 at 22:09 "
[20:45] <pep> hi
[20:45] <newz2000> howdy pep
[20:46] <pep> Ihad a look at the archive of the shipit theme
[20:46] <pep> just now
[20:46] <pep> I'm wondering... this is not usable by drupal is it?
[20:47] <pep> (I never used drupal before)
[20:47] <pep> but I suppose drupal themes are in php or something
[20:47] <pep> I'm installing the cms
[20:47] <pep> (on our testserver for spreadubuntu ;-)
[20:47] <newz2000> yes, the themes are in php
[20:47] <newz2000> you can also download the code for the existing drupal theme...
[20:47] <newz2000> (ugly css/html)
[20:48] <pep> I've got an archive named "ubuntu08" with html/css shipit theme
[20:48] <newz2000> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~newz/ubuntu-website/ubuntu07
[20:48] <newz2000> you'll see the themes are pretty simple compared to a lot of CMS
[20:48] <pep> Is that the same as shipit? or is it without the rounded part at the bottom?
[20:48] <newz2000> that's what's on ubuntu.com now
[20:49] <newz2000> just use it as an example of a drupal theme
[20:49] <pep> I only used CMSmadesimple and some custom ones until now
[20:49] <pep> Ok
[20:49] <pep> and ubuntu08 theme is not yet on launchpad?
[20:49] <pep> the one shipit uses..
[20:50] <newz2000> correct
[20:51] <pep> ok
[23:40]  * Volans back
[23:41] <pep> newz2000: do you have an idea when the ubuntu08 theme will be on launchpad? I think we are going to work on spreadubuntu with ubuntu07 theme whilst developing our background infrastructure...
[23:41] <pep> welcome back Volans
[23:42] <newz2000> pep: do you mean "on launchad" or do you mean "a completed drupal theme"?
[23:42] <Volans> Hi pep
[23:47] <pep> newz2000: "a completed drupal theme" if it's the official one, to be inline with the other sites it would be nonsense to make our own one
[23:47] <newz2000> pep: its not scheduled
[23:47] <pep> but ubuntu.com is planning to take over the same theme as shipit?N
[23:47] <pep> -N
[23:48] <newz2000> yes, that's the current plan, but it's not scheduled yet
[23:48] <pep> ok very well
[23:50] <pep> we won't be up so quickly anyway, and it's not a problem if we use the current theme for the moment.. I'm working on the move of the ubuntu-be site from CMSMS to Drupal too, attending a sprint for this in Brussels tomorrow, so I'll earn some drupal experience. If I have time I might make the template  myself then and get back to you.
[23:50] <pep> but that wold be at the soonest in September.
[23:51] <Volans> pep: I'll talked with newz2000 about the same thing just today... if I find the time, it's possible that I will try to make a drupal theme from the shipit site
[23:52] <pep> ah yes
[23:52] <Volans> maybe we can cooperate?
[23:52] <pep> we could, but at the soonest in September
[23:52] <newz2000> Volans: you're going to have to be careful about all you volunteer for. ;-)
[23:52] <newz2000> pep: September sounds reasonable
[23:53] <Volans> newz2000: sure! but atm I'm not really involved in any "big thing"... bugs are a hobby :)
[23:53]  * newz2000 goes for food
[23:53] <pep> well, that's my point Volans, I'm involved in a relatively big thing I think, so this would not be a priority really :)
[23:55] <Volans> pep, really I'm not involved in big thing here on the website... in the Italian loco I have many things ;)
[23:55] <pep> ok
[23:55] <pep> :)
[23:55] <Volans> so depends if I found the time this summer
[23:55] <Volans> and I don't have any drupal experience too...
[23:55] <pep> hehe me neither
[23:56] <pep> But seems easy
[23:56] <pep> I installed it this afternoon
[23:56] <Volans> yeah, matt say more that wordpress
[23:56] <Volans> /that/then/
[23:56] <pep> yes, I have the feeling too :)
[23:57] <pep> but you know how it is with new things, gotta get used to them
[23:59] <Volans> I have experience for IPB and SMF forums and something about joomla
[23:59] <Volans> for the theme customization of existing CMS