[03:36] good night [03:36] night pep. See you tomorrow. [08:01] sweet [08:01] hi ppl [08:02] Howdy meoblast001 [08:02] ok [08:02] i have ideas [08:02] i've been supporting this since forever and just learned a team for this exists today [08:02] i has skills [08:03] music [08:03] animation [08:03] web design [08:03] can i be in? [08:03] meoblast001: yes [08:03] sweet [08:03] =D [08:03] Flannel: is there a special mini-site or something yet? [08:04] i also have 3D modeling skills [08:04] meoblast001: mini site? [08:04] like [08:04] a marketing site or something [08:04] meoblast001: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam [08:05] im there right now [08:05] i'd like to start up a mini-site [08:05] something thats like.... uhhh [08:05] what is a mini site? [08:05] how do i explain this [08:05] i'll give you an example of a minisite [08:06] hmm [08:06] sytrus mini-site must have been closed [08:06] cant use that as an example [08:07] Flannel: a minisite is usually done in Flash and tells you the basics of a project or product.... it throws out the most important details and is usually full of clean looking eyecandy to make the visitor think "thats professsional" [08:09] welcome [08:10] Flannel: do you want to hear some of my musical work or see some of my web/animation work? [08:11] meoblast001: That's not necessary, but you can share if you'd like. [08:11] Flannel: ok... ill show you my breakbeat i made for the next release of Nexuiz [08:13] Flannel: http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/3/19/904700/theheartofinsanity.mp3 [08:13] dang it [08:13] nevermind [08:14] thats the old one.. the not good one [08:14] Flannel: here http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/3/19/904700/thebeastofinsanity.mp3 [08:15] Flannel: webdesign and my old animations are at www.mysticgalaxies.com [08:15] i can animate better now [08:22] Flannel: did you look at those? [08:23] Yep [08:23] what do you think [08:23] i want to make something more suddle for any Ubuntu stuff [08:24] sounds good [08:29] Flannel: ive never been good at slow music though [08:31] i just made a sweet begining to a song [08:53] well im out [08:54] time to go to bed [08:54] night meoblast001 [10:08] hi [10:08] is anyone available right now... i have a sweet idea [10:15] for what? [10:20] elkbuntu: i have an idea [10:20] elkbuntu: i printed off all the Ubuntu flyers, and next year im gonna give them all to my comptuer teacher and hope it goes up to administration [10:20] i have a small school so its worth a shot [10:24] meoblast001, it's also worth writing letters to the politicians in your local area :) [10:24] elkbuntu: should i get edubuntu or ubuntu? [10:24] meoblast001, depends on the current setup [10:25] of our school? [10:25] our school runs mainly IBM's with Windows XP Professional [10:25] as thin clients? [10:26] elkbuntu: whats a thin client? [10:26] oh dang it [10:26] i have a question [10:27] networked computers that dont have harddrives of their own [10:27] our computer has this big hard disk everyone knows of as the Z drive...... it basically stores all users stuff [10:27] and all users are on that [10:27] and yes... the computers have harddisks [10:27] but they clean them all off every night [10:29] elkbuntu: is that possible? [10:30] sure. but then we get into technical aspects and this is a marketing channel [10:30] yeah [10:30] elkbuntu: one other question [10:31] elkbuntu: my school uses a web filter known as bess and a remote monitoring program that monitors all computers... is that possible [10:31] sure [10:31] elkbuntu: do you know the apps? [10:31] that do that [10:32] i want to try them out [10:32] not off the top of my head [10:32] what do you recommend looking up then? [10:32] typing "ubuntu web filter" is a good place to start, then replacing "web filter" with whatever you want to know about for other topics [10:33] (into google, that is) [10:34] elkbuntu: dang it.... my school is too retarded to configure stuff [10:36] elkbuntu: im gonna try dansguardian out [11:09] im going to bed [11:09] its late [11:09] night [22:02] Anyone alive? [22:02] Yes [22:02] coming [22:02] right [22:02] Who's here for the Spread Ubuntu meeting? [22:02] You and me, looks like. [22:02] no [22:02] Its less of a meeting, more of a discussion. [22:02] there are people just watching too :) [22:03] yes [22:03] of course [22:03] we don't have an agenda anyway [22:03] Do you know if Onno planned to come? [22:03] I don't [22:04] Nvm [22:07] maybe someone will turn up in a couple of minutes ;) [22:07] Even if they don't, we can still get stuff done [22:07] Flannel: any comments about the project specs thread? [22:07] (jupp) [22:07] :] [22:07] pep: Those specs need to be decided at a discussion like todays [22:08] pep: I think a large problem we seem to have is everyone sends out "announcement" type emails instead of discussion type emails [22:08] i'd have liked to see Mike feravolo, onno and joshua chase here actually (and hubuntu obviously but that's not souch a problem :-) [22:09] Flannel: yeah, I'm constantly trying to get people to comment my e-mails and give their part, like Ruben did with the specs e-mail... [22:09] We're not really *talking* about the project [22:09] oh right [22:09] well, I'd like to... :) [22:09] pep: I'd personally like to see a lot more discussion here on a day to day basis. [22:10] I realise with timezones thats not always possible, but still [22:10] IRC is much less formal, people are more likely to justsit down and toss ideas around [22:10] instead of feeling the need to write up elaborate emails that cover large things [22:10] We discuss regularly with Ruben when we see each other on IRC [22:10] yeah [22:10] That might just be my perception though [22:10] that' was what was behind this meeting [22:10] no you're right [22:10] that's why I really wanted a meeting to [22:10] +day [22:11] right [22:13] I think we're doing a little too much objective thinking :) [22:14] Which objective thinking? [22:14] it's time to stop talking about methods and getting things done you see? we have to get more subjectif now, into it [22:14] actively flourishing ideas [22:14] and sharing them [22:15] What sort of methods? [22:15] well, we're not yet into it... [22:15] we are trying [22:16] but don't just *do* it.. and then we keep saying how we should take the next steps instead of taking them [22:16] now don't take this bad :) [22:16] If the "methods" youre talking about are planning how to code and stuff, we haven't done that (but that doesn't necessarily have to happen first). If its... some other methods... I dont know [22:16] this is not relative to what you just said [22:16] it's all of us that are each in their corner [22:16] Mhmm [22:16] like onno's commentary that followed the design mockups [22:16] he's right [22:16] Oh, while we're here. What is https://launchpad.net/spreadubuntu [22:16] totally [22:17] but then we have to start putting answers ;à [22:17] Flannel: it is the Site part [22:17] jsut read the title [22:17] just* [22:17] pep: No no. but why does it have its own launchpad project? [22:17] Because it is the old spreadubuntu project [22:17] these aren't separate projects, they certainly don't need separate code branches. They can both live on the same code branch [22:17] we didn't create it [22:17] Ah, thats the old one. [22:18] ok [22:18] I just changed the details [22:18] Whats the new one then? or is there not a new one? [22:18] and made out of the diy website the diy.su project and out of the oroginal spreadubuntu the site part [22:18] now we're working on diy-spreadubuntu (used to be ubuntu-diy-marketing project) [22:18] I say remove one of them, and use the other. the other is... diy-website? or what? [22:19] diy-spreadubuntu [22:19] I say ditch diy-spreadubuntu, use spreadubuntu as the entire project, it can hold both codes. [22:19] yeah, I wanted to [22:19] So, just do it? [22:19] actually a launchpad admin has to [22:19] and we came to keep it finally to not loose the code and such... [22:19] but now that you say it [22:20] I still think the best is to ditch it [22:20] Well, change spreadubuntu to talk abotu the whole project, and in the team time, change the description on the other one to say "old, don't use" or whatever [22:20] but which one? :) [22:20] diy-spreadubuntu then [22:20] stupid question [22:20] pep: spreadubuntu to keep, since its the overarching theme. diy-spreadubuntu doesn't maek sense to have both parts in it [22:20] yeah sure, my bad [22:21] I'm glad you wanted to ditch one... since sometimes I worry we're balkanizing this project way too much. Worrying too much about structure and stuff. [22:22] Howdy hubuntu [22:22] I worry that there is not enough energy :) [22:22] ah there he is ;) [22:22] Good evening.. I came as soon as i could [22:23] hubuntu: we are 3 [22:23] pep: I wouldn't worry about the energy. [22:23] Flannel and I jsut talked about having 2 projects on LP, and came back to the conclusion that we might as well ditch diy-spreadubuntu and only work in spreadubuntu, hosting both codes and everything [22:24] so I'm going to take care of that [22:24] Ok. Is Onno here? Mike? Meisok? [22:24] Nope [22:25] ;) [22:25] Ok [22:25] meisok is eating I think [22:25] and jchase is not here either [22:25] Let's get on. What have you guys discussed till now? [22:25] nothing essential [22:25] basically what I said about the project in LP [22:25] Ok [22:25] and that we would like more discussion on IRC, more ideas [22:26] hubuntu: plus the need to talk more on IRC (or casual emails), and less in "announcement" type emails [22:26] Flannel: can you repeat for hubuntu? [22:26] I'll post a log [22:26] actually [22:26] Shall we introduce ourselves and give keypoint of our skills and roles in the community? [22:27] o.O [22:27] So we can get an idea of where we stand and what we can contribute actively with [22:27] hubuntu: http://paste.ubuntu.com/28545/ [22:27] Ah right [22:28] I'm rwading the log [22:29] I think we should get on with discussing the project specs thread [22:29] hubuntu: sure, do so [22:32] Ok. I'm on [22:32] We are here to define the diy site part rigth? [22:33] hubuntu: We're here to talk about whatever [22:33] well, Flannel, you did not reply to the thread about the specs, would you like to comments anything? [22:33] pep: Uh, let me refresh my memory [22:34] it's about three e-mails... [22:34] no [22:34] yes [22:34] sorry :) [22:34] Let me just summarize what my answers to the questions would be. That might be simpler. [22:35] Go flannel [22:35] hubuntu: you got time? [22:35] or anything before you? [22:35] I mean, for me you can take your time Flannel [22:36] Yes [22:36] I have the whole evening [22:36] yeah Flannel it is good that every person gives his answers [22:36] and then find a nice middle [22:36] :) [22:37] It offers download stuffs for arbitrary people, upload stuff for arbitrary people (maybe not arbitrary? some sort of moderated? thing? whatever). Both of these are handled by bzr, so you can also use that as an interface. With bzr comes a form of version control, and other flexibility. We'll support any filetypes, including the final projects and their source. [22:38] version control for the site itself will also be done in bzr, since thats what we have readily available [22:38] We also support languages. Either through rosetta or not (I'm not familiar with how rosetta works). [22:38] (tell us when you're about done) [22:38] I... think that's about it? As for the sort of use case things... [22:39] random person (org, loco, whatever) comes, finds whatever they need, uses it. If they have materials they want to share, they upload/share. [22:39] Pretty simple. [22:39] I'm done. I think I covered it all. Anything I missed? [22:39] it musn't be rosetta for me I think, would be nice, but probably difficult for every type of document... but we should investigate this [22:40] like all the concrete launchpad use we do [22:40] what exactly is a document in lp, a project? [22:40] etc.. [22:40] pep: document? [22:40] well, a material. [22:40] I don't know how to call it [22:40] A document in LP thrfough bzr is a document with version control tracking [22:40] Materials range from images, icons, posters, brochures, etc. [22:41] I imagine a lot of our stuff will be SVG [22:41] Bzr is the key [22:41] Indeed Flannel. I believe svg will be our man 'standard' [22:41] *Main [22:42] pep: Again, I have no idea how rosetta works, but maybe we put all the textin a file, and then people can translate through rosetta, and then someone goes through andtakes the translated text and puts it back into the files? [22:42] pff, seems long.. [22:42] I mean, if rosetta can only deal with semi-unformatted text [22:42] just to say "we used it" [22:42] no? [22:42] pep: I don't care about using it. I was under the impression that others wanted to. [22:43] I have no idea how it works, so it might not be worth it. [22:43] Rosetta is wonderfful in that that anyone can translate everything [22:43] yes, I'd like to, but we have to see what is more effective once we've got a clearer view of the type of documents and how we handle them in bazaar exactly [22:43] If not, then things get trnaslated by people who then upload the translated things as a translation of the original [22:43] And yes, a svg file would have a .po file for transllation [22:43] maybe it's easuier to download the svg/png , translate and upload the new one next to the old [22:43] yes, for svg it's ok true :) [22:43] but then comes the placement problem [22:44] That's why the SUgui is central [22:44] hubuntu: po files don't really work for non-compiled things, right? [22:44] in different languages you place it differently, we'll have to see how we review things that have been translated [22:44] For the moment, I don't mind dealing with translations "manually", with the prospect of integrating somehow with rosetta later [22:44] They work for a svg or anything really, depends on how far we are willing to work with this [22:45] manually being, someone downloads the file, translates, re-uploads as a translation [22:45] Flannel i agree [22:45] just like all the content in the wiki is translated currently [22:45] But I think that we should have the translation platform ready by september [22:45] I think we should discuss translation point after having completely cleared and confirmed and proved possible the exact process we use for the documents, in bzr I mean [22:46] no? [22:46] hubuntu: I think deadlines are a bit premature at this point [22:46] True [22:47] pep: the ability to have multiple versions (different languages) of a resource is something that is easy to build into our system if we do it from the start. Might not be easy to revamp later though [22:47] ok, if you think [22:47] it is maybe because I'm not familiar with bazaar :) [22:47] and you not with rosetta ;)à [22:47] pep: Well, bzr is just files. bzr won't be dealing with our translations. The system we build ontop of bzr will. [22:48] as far as bzr is concerned, they're all more or less "just files" [22:48] ok [22:48] so a database entry would be associated with a document, it's translations, the bzr address for updates, and a metafile... what else? [22:49] pep: Um, not quite like that, but sort of. [22:49] huh :D [22:49] ok [22:49] let me see if I cant quickly throw something together to illustrate [22:51] no, thats not going to work in the time constraints of the meetingn [22:51] I'm gonna ask the launchpad people about rodetta [22:52] pep: Basically, everything in bzr includes a metafile, which describes the resource, and also points to its various files (that are in the same directory, or subdirectories). Then our server program thing takes the info from bzr, and puts it into the DB (I know that poster1 has this description, and this creator, and this english file, this french file, this english source file, etc) [22:53] pep: the server program reads the metafile to know what files in that directory/subdirectories are what [22:53] and each resource gets its own directory (probably in a heirarchy) inside of bzr. so, like /posters/installfest/my-poster-1 [22:54] pep: Basically, everything in bzr includes a metafile, which describes the resource, and also points to its various files (that are in the same directory, or subdirectories). Then our server program thing takes the info from bzr, and puts it into the DB (I know that poster1 has this description, and this creator, and this english file, this french file, this english source file, etc) [22:54] sorry I had a freeze -_- [22:54] pep: the server program reads the metafile to know what files in that directory/subdirectories are what [22:54] and each resource gets its own directory (probably in a heirarchy) inside of bzr. so, like /posters/installfest/my-poster-1 [22:55] ok [22:55] so, /posters/installfst/my-poster-1/Metafile my-poster-1/poster-blah.svg my-poster-1/poster-blah2.svg etc [22:55] that's about what I imagined, thanks for precising that! =) [22:55] and then in the Metafile, it knows that potser-blah is the english source version, poster-blah2 is the french one, etc. [22:56] are you familiar with writing these type of database server programs? I suppose Onno will give us a hand.... [22:56] pep: Yeah, it shouldn't be a big deal. [22:56] Basically when we update, we get a diff from bzr, showing which files have changed, and then take the changed information and update it in our DB [22:57] Its a pretty simple DB structure and process [22:57] good [22:57] now it is clear! :) [22:57] I really didn't see through this tbh [22:58] and I understand why the translation is more important.. [22:58] what else is there important to clarify? [22:58] pep: through this tbh? [22:59] to be honest* [22:59] uhm [22:59] I didn't understand everything until now to be honest [22:59] Oh [22:59] Well, glad to clarify [22:59] I thought about clearly defining a classification system for one... deciding on which entries... [23:00] which comments on this? => https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu/diy#head-7b73d553a3987aaab369cd5c7eeb0d35e071e71e [23:01] Let me see pep [23:01] it mustn't be finished tonight [23:01] but I'd like to get the completion rolling [23:02] I don't think anything will ever be finished. If we wait for that, we really will never get anything done [23:02] True, but we can agree on something to work with [23:03] yes Flannel :) [23:04] yes, start discussing, so , what do you think? what jumps to your developer eyes? what do you think *must* be a criteria of sorting, what not? etc... we will be able to work on the logs of our discussion if we don't remember all [23:04] I thought about something to add to my paragraph this afternoon: n° of downloads, just a detail but important [23:05] Analytics will aid us theere pep [23:05] ;) [23:06] true, but I'm talking about the interest for the user, of it being a column and a criteria of sorting [23:06] not for us [23:06] I think "type" and "category" (type being the type of material, category being what its purpose is) are important for classification. Description is also important, but not really a "classifier" [23:06] and we can use piwik, open source variant of google analytics, we are setting it up for ubuntu-be and possibly the belgian indymedia site (7000 visits/day) [23:07] Is it as good as analytics? [23:07] right, description will come in the profile page (that's how I call it) [23:07] I'm not sure analytics will be of much use [23:07] Works with drupal? [23:07] hubuntu: well analytics is more ad-sense oriented [23:07] yes hubuntu there is a module [23:07] * Flannel isn't sure we'll be using drupal either, but that's a topic for another day. [23:07] it is quite good we discussed it today [23:07] I believe analytics will be vital when we move to the campaign site aprt [23:08] but it's still quite young [23:08] I believe drupal is the way to go [23:08] yeah... we'll write it down for a decision to take [23:08] ok that's a discussion too [23:08] As the rest of the community is based on that [23:08] are we taking about classification now or going over to drupal? [23:08] I think drupal is overkill and not really necessary. But that's a frontend thing. I think I'm going to concentrate on the backend more. [23:08] ok, drupal :) [23:08] pep: We're tlakigna about whatever [23:08] And is a platform so we don't have to reinvent the whell [23:09] Flannel: yeah, but we'll come back to the classification system [23:09] I am for drupal too [23:09] using it for ubuntu-be now [23:10] Like I said, I'm going to ignore the frontend, since I'm very much against using a general use CMS for this. [23:10] that way you won't have to listen to my ranting, and I'll get some work done ;) [23:11] well elt's not keep it latent and talk about it now, wy not drupal, what would you use? a custom cms? [23:11] let's* [23:11] or something like that specialised cms for libraries and such... forgot the name [23:11] I think writing a custom site will be a whole lot faster than kluding something into a CMS [23:11] Ok flannel [23:11] we talked about it [23:12] But, that's just me [23:12] But since we are to maintain it too t makes more sense to use drupal, and to get it canonical hosted [23:12] It just seems to me like theres not a whole lot of site around the content, all its going to be is "search DB, display results, show details of results, upload new stuff" [23:12] I think we should use drupal... it's not going to be much harder to immplement something in a drupal site than in a custom one is it? and drupal offers many ready-made modules... [23:12] Like the openID [23:13] Flannel: +comments + openid + profiles (stats about number of uploads, etc...) [23:13] pep: When you use drupal, or some other thing like that, you wind up spending more time getting your code to play nicely with the CMS than writing your code to begin with [23:13] and acess levels to are easy to manage [23:13] mhh yeah I see your point... [23:14] Do we want to allow comments? [23:14] definitely [23:14] I am not sure [23:14] as far as profiles go, we use LP IDs, and we're done. [23:14] Yes, LP is the way [23:14] http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Moomex-Theme?content=57063&PHPSESSID=86fe2ce23770349ab3464545a6a72e90 I like this concept... [23:14] OpenID is the *only * way to log in [23:15] ah yes hubuntu but openid doesn't exclude profiles [23:15] not a list of uploaded things per user? or something like that? [23:15] OpenID doens't mean just LP though [23:15] That way everybody is bounded to LPP [23:15] hubuntu: LP isn't the only place to get openID [23:15] but openID is just the login hubuntu... [23:15] With open ID you can use *any* open ID provider. Unless we're going to limit it to LP only. [23:15] I know, but LP should be the only provider [23:15] Which we may wish to do. [23:16] hubuntu: we use openID at ubuntu-be, but it's normal openID, not just LP: www.ubuntu-be.org/drupal [23:16] but thn we're not really using "open ID" but just "launchpad accounts" [23:16] That way all reg users are LP nusers and have upload *rights* [23:16] yes Flannel that's it [23:16] we're using both [23:16] launchpad accounts through openID [23:16] which is fine, we just shouldn't say "open ID" [23:16] yes, technically you're right [23:16] :) [23:16] LP OpenID [23:16] ;) [23:16] hubuntu: No, just LP accounts [23:16] yes [23:17] lp accounts, via openID provider restriction [23:17]