[00:46] <Fallenou> seems that there is some problem with the launchpad css ?
[00:46] <Fallenou> each time i refresh the page i get 50%chance of having the page without css (so ugly page)
[00:48] <Grantbow> I was getting that yesterday too
[00:49] <Fallenou> btw, i get one bug i sorted as "Incomplete" which has more information now (reporter added some logs) , can someone tell me if there is anough information to put it to "Confirmed" ? bug #250241
[00:51] <Grantbow> you can't confirm your own bugs, that defeats the purpose
[00:52] <Fallenou> it's not a bug i reported
[00:53] <Grantbow> oops, sorry.
[00:55] <Fallenou> just want to know if the bug is anough explained and if there is enough log to remove the "Incomplete" status :)
[00:55] <Fallenou> and in this case, what status to put instead
[00:58] <Grantbow> Fallenou: I'm not an expert but this is my understanding.  Can you duplicate the problem?  If so you can confirm it.  Beyond that it might take someone who knows that code pretty well to diagnose precisely where the problem really lies.
[00:58] <Fallenou> ok so we gotta know if it is reproductible
[00:59] <Grantbow> yes, that's the point of the "confirmed" status
[00:59] <Grantbow> a second person with the same symptoms
[01:00] <Grantbow> there's documentation about this on the wiki too
[01:00] <Grantbow> see /topic
[01:00] <Fallenou> yes i read the wiki about triaging but it's a little bit confused yet in my head :p
[01:00] <Fallenou> i'm new to all this
[01:02] <Grantbow> You'll get used to it.  The meanings of the status and priority and getting used to the reporting system can be tricky in any bug system that you begin using.
[01:04] <Grantbow> I'm new to this bug system too.
[01:04] <Fallenou> so far i just put some new bugs in Incomplete status
[01:04] <Fallenou> asking for more information
[01:06] <Grantbow> Every little bit helps :-)  If you like you can register the ones you worked on using the 5-a-day tool.  Are you working with a LoCo yet?
[01:08] <Fallenou> what is a LoCo ?
[01:08] <Fallenou> (don't know 5-a-day)
[01:08] <Grantbow> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams describes Ubuntu Local Communities
[01:09] <Grantbow> I'll find a linke for 5-a-day
[01:10] <Fallenou> LoCo team is a group of people in the same geographic region acting like promoting ubuntu ?
[01:10] <Grantbow> exactly
[01:10] <Grantbow> sometimes doing translations too
[01:10] <Grantbow> if needed
[01:10] <Fallenou> ok no i don't belong to any team right now :o
[01:11] <Grantbow> where are you?
[01:11] <Fallenou> in france, there is a LoCo team ubuntu-fr
[01:11] <Fallenou> (an irc channel here too)
[01:11] <Grantbow> excellent
[01:12] <Grantbow> there is a tool that groups of people can use to track how many they have done if they want.  It's optional.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day
[01:13] <Grantbow> There is a global bug jam coming up in August and it's fun to keep track for special events like that.
[01:13] <Fallenou> i receive emails for "Hug Day" sometimes :)
[01:13] <Fallenou> but i never came yet but maybe i will =)
[01:14] <Fallenou> Hug day (bug day) is triaging / confirming day on IRC right ?
[01:15] <Grantbow> yes, same stuff.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay
[01:16] <Fallenou> https://launchpad.net/~yann-sionneau/+sshkeys < hum here is my SSH key
[01:17] <Fallenou> ooh
[01:17] <Fallenou> i missunderstood
[01:17] <Fallenou> i thought i had to send the ssh key via 5-a-day
[01:17] <Grantbow> then you are most of the way ready to use it - but I've had some problems with getting it to work
[01:18] <Grantbow> bug #193502 got in my way
[01:18] <Fallenou> oops this bug is mine :p
[01:18] <Fallenou> i miss typed :x
[01:18] <Fallenou> i entered the ssh key instead of bug number
[01:19] <Fallenou> so it crashed and it seems to have sent a bug report
[01:19] <Grantbow> Lol, I don't think that's what's supposed to happen.
[01:20] <Fallenou> ho , no it's not my bug
[01:20] <Fallenou> funny my 5-a-day crashed the same time the bug appears here :p
[01:20] <Grantbow> ubottu is helpful in describing bug numbers we talk about here.
[01:20] <Grantbow> yeah, yeah
[01:21] <Fallenou> yes i experienced it :)
[01:21] <Fallenou> ok i just understood you typed the bug number
[01:21] <Grantbow> exactly
[01:21] <Fallenou> thought i was on #ubuntu-bugs-announce and the bug just shows up ... i'm too stupid :p
[01:22] <Grantbow> toys toys
[01:22] <Grantbow> I should get back to my Supybot python plugin coding soon.
[01:22] <Grantbow> that's the code that runs ubottu
[01:22] <Grantbow> though I didn't code the cool plugins used for these bugs - I'm coding other stuff.
[01:23] <Fallenou> the bot which announce new bugs is having some troubles apparently ^^
[01:23] <Fallenou> it kept disconnection/reconnecting this afternoon
[01:25] <Grantbow> it could be due to netsplits in freenode
[01:26] <Fallenou> yes maybe
[01:26] <Fallenou> hum 5-a-day crash
[01:26] <Fallenou> can't add bug
[01:26] <Fallenou> too bad =)
[01:26] <Grantbow> that's what happened for me too - maybe you could add a comment to bug #192502 if you have time
[01:27] <Fallenou> ok will do it tomorrow
[01:27] <Grantbow> oops, I mean bug #193502
[01:27] <Fallenou> i'm gonna go sleeping now :p
[01:27] <Fallenou> (yes i got it :p)
[01:27] <Grantbow> cool
[01:27] <Grantbow> Well, take care.  Thanks for helping out.
[01:27] <Fallenou> it's 2:30 am here and i have work tomorrow :x
[01:28] <Fallenou> you're welcome :)
[01:28] <Fallenou> bye !
[01:28] <Grantbow> bye !
[02:44] <mrooney> can anyone here using compiz see if they can duplicate this bug I found?
[02:45] <stpere> what bug? :)
[02:50] <greg-g> first rule of irc: don't ask to ask, just ask (with all appropriate details)
[02:54] <mrooney> greg-g: I wasn't asking to ask, I was asking if anyone was willing :)
[02:55] <mrooney> stpere: I am trying to change the alt+left click behavior, that moves a window
[02:55] <stpere> bad behaviour for sure! :D
[02:55] <stpere> must be set to "close window"
[02:55] <greg-g> he's gone
[02:56] <greg-g> hmmm
[02:58] <stpere> wb mrooney
[02:58] <mrooney> thanks, dunno what happened
[02:58] <mrooney> so anyway
[02:58] <mrooney> stpere: I open CCSM, go to "Move Window" and try to disable Initiate Window Move mouse binding
[02:59] <mrooney> so I click the binding button, and uncheck enable, then ok
[02:59] <mrooney> NOW, left click drags everything! just a left click
[02:59] <mrooney> you can't even click things
[02:59] <mrooney> you have to use the keyboard to re-enable it!
[03:01] <mrooney> the same thing happens if I try to change it to anything else, instead of just disable it
[03:02] <stpere> sec, I'm insalling CCSM
[03:03] <stpere> didn't have it on this installation
[03:03] <mrooney> stpere: okay, thanks :)
[03:05] <mrooney> I duplicated it on another machine as well
[03:08] <stpere> same here
[03:17] <nellery> mrooney, I receive the same symptoms with alt +left-click
[03:18] <nellery> but dont get the second part
[03:18] <mrooney> stpere: so you get the same buggy behavior?
[03:18] <nellery> is this by any chance related to wobbly windows?
[03:18] <mrooney> nellery: what symptoms do you mean?
[03:19] <mrooney> nellery: interesting, I can try disabling them, I wonder how that would have an effect
[03:22] <mrooney> stpere: it definitely seems like a bug, right?
[03:23] <nellery> mrooney, hm, reenabling move window doesn't cause windows to drag with left click, but it makes the cursor not click
[03:24] <mrooney> yeah, it is pretty poor all around
[03:24] <mrooney> you have to make it go to the default settings for anything to work, basically
[05:15] <speeddemon8803> hey guys, im one of the triagers and I have a question of what to do on this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/250216
[05:18] <speeddemon8803> formula definately does not show up in the list as the person suggested by his comment..so..confirmed correct?
[05:18]  * greg-g looks
[05:19] <greg-g> but in general, if you can reproduce the issue, yes, feel free to set it to "confirmed"
[05:19] <speeddemon8803> Thanks greg-g
[05:20] <greg-g> np
[05:23] <greg-g> speeddemon8803: which "formula" package are you trying to install?
[05:25] <greg-g> openoffice.org-math?
[05:28] <speeddemon8803> yes
[05:28] <greg-g> yeah, got it.  And yes, I can confirm as well
[05:29] <speeddemon8803> Awesome. Thanks for the help.
[05:29] <greg-g> I'm downloading its source now to look for the issue, it'll be a bit as it is 280 megs :)
[05:29] <speeddemon8803> yeah
[05:29]  * speeddemon8803 goes back to triaging
[05:30] <greg-g> thanks for helping speeddemon8803
[05:30] <speeddemon8803> thank you as well! :)
[07:18] <Hew> How long does the retracing service take? It used to occur on the day, but there are reports that have been unattended for over a month.
[12:46] <afflux> I'm having trouble understanding bug 250486. The package's preinst file has a dpgk creates a diversion for the libglx.so.
[12:46] <afflux> argh
[12:46] <duncan-nz> Can I use this channel to try and confirm some bugs?
[12:47] <duncan-nz> is anyone able to confirm a bug report I have? Open Yelp and search for 'workspace', then select the link to documentation for 'clock'. Tell me what happens please.
[12:47] <duncan-nz> (This is with 8.04 and Yelp 22.2.1
[12:47] <duncan-nz> )
[12:47] <afflux> try again: I'm having trouble understanding bug 250486. The package's preinst file has a dpkg-divert call which should create a diversion for the libglx.so.
[12:48] <afflux> And the bug report as a line saying [modified: /var/lib/dpkg/info/nvidia-glx-177.list]. How can that happen?
[12:48] <duncan-nz> Sorry, the link is called 'Clock Manual'
[12:48] <afflux> duncan-nz: can't find that link
[12:50] <duncan-nz> OK, could you comment and confirm this bug for me? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yelp/+bug/243611
[12:50] <duncan-nz> ubottu, thanks, I know.
[12:51] <Pici> its a bot.
[12:51] <duncan-nz> OK, ubottu is a bot - I get it.
[12:51] <afflux> duncan-nz: sorry, maybe I was unclea. I can't see the link you're talking about
[12:52] <duncan-nz> afflux, so when you search Yelp for 'Workspace' you do not get a result called 'Clock Manual'. Is that correct?
[12:52] <afflux> yes
[12:52] <afflux> Or I'm blind :)
[12:52] <duncan-nz> Why is it that different people get different results from Yelp?
[12:52] <duncan-nz> Do you have tracker enabled?
[12:52] <afflux> no
[12:53] <duncan-nz> I guess that makes a difference.
[12:53] <duncan-nz> What about searching for 'Clock Manual'?
[12:53] <afflux> could be. If I remember correctly some -doc packages register their documentation "with yelp", sort of
[12:54] <afflux> duncan-nz: um, yes, there it is
[12:54] <duncan-nz> and when you select it?
[12:55] <afflux> duncan-nz: I get an empty overview page, with a ToC: "introduction", "usage" and "settings"
[12:55] <afflux> note that I'm on intrepid
[12:55] <duncan-nz> ah, what's the URL for the link you get in the search results?
[12:56] <duncan-nz> The one I get, which is broken, is file:///usr/share/gnome/help/clock/C/clock.xml#gospanel-3
[12:56] <afflux> duncan-nz: file:///usr/share/gnome/help/clock/de/clock.xml#index
[12:56] <afflux> duncan-nz: your url works for me
[12:57] <duncan-nz> but you're locale is de, right? so you have a different path in the search results. Now how can it be that my link works for you...?
[12:58] <duncan-nz> [you're = your]
[12:59] <duncan-nz> afflux, how do I use one your URL in Yelp, I can't remember how to do it.
[12:59] <afflux> duncan-nz: It seems like gnome-panel-data always installs the english manuals
[12:59] <afflux> duncan-nz: no idea, just use epiphany or firefox, will work too
[13:00] <afflux> duncan-nz: can you check whether you have the file /usr/share/gnome/help/clock/C/clock.xml ?
[13:04] <duncan-nz> afflux, Yes, I have the file you mentioned.
[13:04] <duncan-nz> afflux, so you're not actually checking that Yelp can open that link? Are you sure that's a valid way to check?
[13:04] <afflux> duncan-nz: no, not sure. I thought it uses some browser backend like epiphany or similar
[13:05] <afflux> will check whether I get the C link when I start yelp with LOCALE=C
[13:06] <afflux> duncan-nz: running "env LC_ALL=C LANG=C yelp" results in "file:///usr/share/gnome/help/clock/C/clock.xml#index", which works for me
[13:07] <duncan-nz> afflux, I wish it did, but I don't think so.
[13:07] <duncan-nz> I will try that env switch.
[13:07] <afflux> that's not important for you I guess, because I use it to get the C locale (which is like the version without localisation)
[13:08] <duncan-nz> duncan@duncan-laptop:~$ env LC_ALL=C LANG=C yelp" results in "file:///usr/share/gnome/help/clock/C/clock.xml#index
[13:08] <duncan-nz> env: yelp results in file:///usr/share/gnome/help/clock/C/clock.xml#index: No such file or directory
[13:08] <duncan-nz> duncan@duncan-laptop:~$
[13:08] <afflux> nah, stop after the " please ;)
[13:09] <afflux> the command is "env LC_ALL=C LANG=C yelp" (without quotes)
[13:10] <duncan-nz> afflux, sorry, I didn't even read it - I just did copy-paste. sorry.
[13:10] <afflux> np
[13:12] <duncan-nz> It makes no difference for me, I still get the dead link.
[13:12] <duncan-nz> How would I mark this as fix-released in Intrepid, but still broken in hardy?
[13:14] <afflux> duncan-nz: usually you mark it as fix released and click "nominate for release" -> hardy, but that would require it to be reviewed and have some more information
[13:15] <afflux> I'm writing a comment right now, not sure how this should be handled
[13:16] <afflux> comment added
[13:23] <duncan-nz> afflux, thanks.
[13:24] <afflux> you're welcome
[14:35] <pmatulis> in Launchpad, against what package are bugs filed when closed-source nvidia drivers do not work with a particular card?
[14:37] <duncan-nz> Why not file the bug with nvidia?
[14:38] <Hobbsee> pmatulis: none of them.  or if they are, they'll just get marked as wontfix eventually
[14:38] <pmatulis> Hobbsee: i thought linux-restricted-modules-envy
[15:37] <gauthierm> I've got a fairly reproduceable crash in either rhythmbox or gstreamer. How would I go about getting a backtrace? Is this the correct channel for this stuff?
[15:37] <bddebian> Boo
[15:38] <techno_freak> Baa
[15:39] <seb128> gauthierm: yes that's the correct channel
[15:39] <seb128> gauthierm: the easier way is to enable apport and send a bug using it
[15:39] <seb128> gauthierm: edit /etc/default/apport and /etc/init.d/apport restart
[15:40] <gauthierm> seb128: Done. Should I also restart the program that is crashing?
[15:41] <seb128> yes, you should get the crash while apport is running
[15:42] <seb128> gauthierm: you can read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash on the topic too
[16:47] <sparr> firefox version 3.0 depends on firefox-3.0 when it should (i think) depend on firefox-3.0 version 3.0, should i report that as a bug?
[16:49] <bdmurray> sparr: you might check in the ubuntu-mozillateam first
[16:49] <bdmurray> irc channel that is
[16:49] <sparr> heh
[16:50] <sparr> i have to part a channel for every one i join
[16:50] <sparr> ubuntu is becoming a large faction in my channel list
[16:58] <stgraber> sparr: IIRC you can ask the freenode staff to let you join more than 20 channels
[16:58] <sparr> yeah, i have
[17:38] <bahadunn> 20 channel limit?
[17:38] <bahadunn> I did not know about that
[17:39] <mouz> probably bug 250287 should have importance high. If I am right, could someone having the ability to please make it so? Should it be nominated for the intrepid release?
[18:13] <dorins_> is apport installed by default on ubuntu but not on kubuntu?
[18:14] <dorins_> I use kubuntu but I've never seen apport GUI show up when a program crashes
[18:14] <bdmurray> dorins_: you can check via apt-cache show apport and look at the task section
[18:14] <bdmurray> it shows Task: ... kubuntu-desktop on Hardy
[18:16] <dorins_> bdmurray: you're right it does show.. does that mean kubuntu-desktop depends on apport or something?
[18:18] <dorins_> apport is installed, but I can't figure out how to activate it. It doens't show up when a program crashes. Can anyone help?
[18:18] <bdmurray> Well it means apport will be installed on a default kubuntu system
[18:22] <jonpackard> question: How are bugs experienced with an Ubuntu-based distro handled? Example bug 250509, the reporter is using Kanotix
[18:24] <seb128_> some distros are registered on launchpad, in this case you can open a task on the distro
[18:25] <seb128_> otherwise just close the bug and tell the user to report the bug to the distribution he's using
[18:26] <jonpackard> ﻿seb128: doesn't look like Kanotix is on LP.. setting to invalid. Thanks!
[18:26] <seb128_> you're welcome
[18:45] <LaserJock> tag triaging question:
[18:45] <LaserJock> a bug as the following tags: gutsy hang hardy lockup stuck upgrade
[18:45] <LaserJock> are any of those (other than upgrade) useful tags?
[18:46] <bdmurray> LaserJock: there is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Tags
[18:46] <bdmurray> however, none of those are in the list
[18:46] <bdmurray> well, except upgrade ;)
[18:47] <stgraber> LaserJock: that's how people use tags :( we have seen a lot of them in Ubuntu Brainstorm too
[18:47] <LaserJock> bdmurray: right, but is it considered ok triaging etiquette to make better tags?
[18:48] <bdmurray> I try not to remove any existing tags only add useful ones
[18:48] <bdmurray> I seem to recall reporter added tags being useful once
[18:48] <LaserJock> I was thinking gutsy2hardy would do it though
[18:49] <LaserJock> "hang", "lockup", and "stuck" are hardly helpful in this situation, IMO at least :/
[18:50] <LaserJock> bdmurray: I guess it really doesn't hurt to use unhelpful tags as long as they don't conflict with meaningful ones
[18:51] <LaserJock> sorry, that was a general comment, not specifically to bdmurray
[18:54] <bdmurray> there also is no telling how other people search for tags really
[18:54] <bdmurray> maybe stuck is a useful search for some people
[18:54] <greg-g> and if enough people start to use it, it becomes meaningful
[18:55] <LaserJock> hmm
[18:56] <LaserJock> that really just seems like a workaround for LP search not working, but oh well :-)
[18:56] <greg-g> now you are conflating issues ;)
[18:57] <greg-g> but really tags should be free form, that is how they can become useful.  Otherwise we would just give a set list to choose from instead of allowing free-from typing.  BUT, providing a more useful list of tags would be an improvement
[18:57] <greg-g> (like the idea on IdeaPool) ;)
[18:58] <LaserJock> I just tend to see it from a developer perspective I guess
[18:58] <LaserJock> I see tags as useful flags we can set
[18:59] <LaserJock> not as "what words describe this bug" which is sort of the social-networking type tagging
[18:59] <greg-g> right, and you are free to.  Other people using tags in other ways does not dimish your ability to use them, or, have you come across a situation where it has?
[18:59] <LaserJock> sure
[18:59] <greg-g> (other than a misunderstanding of the definition for the "upgrade" tag)
[18:59] <LaserJock> I'm going through a list of examples ;-)
[19:00] <LaserJock> I do find it more noisy and annoying than harmful
[19:01] <LaserJock> so I guess I'll just hold my tongue ;-)
[19:01] <greg-g> you notice the tags? (seriously, I rarely see them)
[19:01] <LaserJock> yeah
[19:01] <LaserJock> tags are one of the most important "features" of a bug to me
[19:02] <greg-g> gotcha
[19:02] <chrisccoulson> guys, i'm currently looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/250034 does anyone else think this should be "won't fix" or "invalid". I was going to respond to the reporter and ask them to raise bug reports against individual packages that are missing desktop files
[19:02] <norsetto> greg-g: we do notice tags, and I personally change them when they are plainly wrong (like, needs-packaging used instead of update)
[19:03] <LaserJock> greg-g: part of it could be that a lot of developer's todo lists are tag searches
[19:03] <greg-g> oh, we were in -bugs, whoops :)
[19:03] <Fallenou> what do i have to do with this bug : https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/250289 ? i set it to incomplete, the reporter gave a log and set it back to New :o
[19:04] <greg-g> norsetto: yeah, I guess I need to pay more attention to them :)
[19:05] <norsetto> Fallenou: yes, you asked for info and the guy replied with them, what is the problem?
[19:06] <Fallenou> ok but isn't the report still incomplete ?
[19:07] <norsetto> Fallenou: if you believe there is still information missing ask them nicely and set it back to incomplete
[19:08] <Fallenou> i'm wondering if this isn't a duplicate of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/250241
[19:10] <Fallenou> i think i'm wrong after all
[19:11] <Fallenou> they look like kind of the same thing but it's not , they don't have the same error message
[19:14] <chrisccoulson> Fallenou - I would actually ask for a bit more information. For example, the reporter doesn't specify whether their fan is running when it gets hot
[19:15] <Fallenou> ok
[19:15] <Fallenou> thanks :)
[19:16] <chrisccoulson> also perhaps ask them to do "cat /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THM*/*
[19:35] <LaserJock> greg-g: you got a sec to walk me through a triage on bug #109544 ?
[19:36] <LaserJock> doesn't particularly seem like a useful bug to me
[19:37] <greg-g> LaserJock: hmm
[19:37] <greg-g> I would ask him to mv his xorg.conf to his /home to see if it autodetects it correctly
[19:37] <greg-g> if it does, that it was an issue with the upgrade.  If not, then something with xorg has changed
[19:38] <LaserJock> it'
[19:38] <LaserJock> it's been well over a year since the bug was reported (with no comments since), do you think the reporter will respond?
[19:39] <greg-g> if not, then you close it :)
[19:39] <greg-g> (after 60 days)
[19:40] <greg-g> which is why I go through my own related bugs every now and then filtering on bugs that have expired (incomplete and no response from submitter in 60+ days)
[19:41] <LaserJock> greg-g: so are triagers supposed to subscribe to the bug or assign themselves or ...
[19:41] <LaserJock> I remember there was some discussion a while back about it but I can't remember the outcome
[19:42] <bdmurray> subscribe as assignment will break the janitor if it were enabled
[19:42] <greg-g> subscribe, not assign.  Assignment is for the person working on the fix
[19:42] <greg-g> if someone is assigned, the bug will not "expire".  If I am just subscribed it will.
[19:43] <chrisccoulson> would somebody mind setting the status of the transmission task in this bug to "won't fix" (see transcript of discussion on #ubuntu-devel - comment 8). This particular bug is fixed in tracker now, so i've added a tracker task (set to fix released): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tracker/+bug/189439
[19:43] <LaserJock> greg-g: but generally you do want to subscribe?
[19:44] <greg-g> LaserJock: yeah, if you ask for infomration from the reporter it is good form to subscribe so when they do repsond you can take the next step (set to confirmed/ask more debugging info, etc)
[19:46] <LaserJock> greg-g: seriously dude, you must have had some real free time to get those 5-a-day stats ;-)
[19:47] <greg-g> on the contrary, I had finals due :)
[19:47] <greg-g> my room was also really clean
[19:47] <greg-g> ;0
[19:47] <greg-g> ;)
[19:59] <muddler_> I have what I suspect might be a bug - I've been trying to work around it all day. Could someone take a look at it?
[20:01] <jonpackard> ﻿muddler: I'd be glad to help.. have you reported it on launchpad yet?
[20:02] <muddler_> I haven't because I'm not certain it's a bug and don't want to waste people's time
[20:03] <muddler_> I have been toying with it all day though and I've been through every guide and man page I can find.  Should I launchpad next?
[20:04] <jonpackard> that's OK.. if it's not a bug we can convert it into a question.. it won't be wasting time. If you think it's a bug and haven't been able to find anything about it (ubuntuforums, wiki, etc.) then go ahead and file it as a bug
[20:06] <muddler_> ok, thanks, I'll look through launchpad one last time and then post there :)
[20:26] <muddler_> jonpackard: I have now filed it (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/250597 for your interest).  Thanks for the help.
[20:32] <jonpackard> ﻿muddler: Thanks! I'll have a look at it soon to see if I can help. :)