[01:40] <pwnguin> @schedule Chicago
[02:53] <Awsoonn> @schedule detroit
[11:53] <Belutz> hi iang, hi mdamt
[11:57] <amachu> Belutz: elkbuntu: zakame: TheMuso: lifeless : Hi
[11:57] <Belutz> hi amachu
[11:57] <amachu> persia & zakame ?
[11:57] <amachu> Belutz: Hi
[11:58] <amachu> lifeless: Belutz: elkbuntu: amachu : four of us here
[11:58] <mdamt> !Hola!
[11:59] <iang> hoi!
[11:59] <amachu> elkbuntu: ping!
[11:59] <amachu> lifeless: hi
[12:01] <amachu> Belutz: We need to have quorum
[12:02] <amachu> appers you and me alone are active now
[12:02] <Belutz> yes
[12:02] <Belutz> amachu, should we wait?
[12:03] <amachu> mdamt: iang: Welcome! we need to have quorum of four to start
[12:03] <amachu> Belutz: yes..
[12:03] <iang> ok :)
[12:04] <Belutz> amachu, ok, today i have a lot of time :)
[12:04] <amachu> we need to have four out of seven atleast
[12:04] <mdamt> Okey dokey.
[12:04] <amachu> lets wait for some more time
[12:04] <amachu> lifeless: elkbuntu: hi
[12:15] <udienz-> hellow...
[12:16] <amachu> hi
[12:16] <udienz-> hi amachu
[12:18] <ramadas> lets wait till 11.00 UTC and decide
[12:25] <Belutz> amachu, I think we should reschedule the meeting
[12:25] <Belutz> almost 30 minutes passed :)
[12:32] <amachu> Belutz: Yes
[12:32] <amachu> its 11.30 UTC
[12:33] <amachu> lifeless: elkbuntu :
[12:33] <amachu> ?
[12:33] <amachu> iang: mdamt : Hi
[12:34] <Belutz> amachu, the next meeting would be on August 5th ?
[12:34] <mdamt> Yes.
[12:34] <iang> hi
[12:34] <amachu> on 29
[12:34] <iang> next week?
[12:34] <Belutz> July 29th? ok
[12:34] <mdamt> I'm unavailable. Iang can go on.
[12:34] <iang> fine for me
[12:34] <amachu> thats fifth tuesday
[12:35] <amachu> Belutz: yes.
[12:35] <Belutz> amachu, if I can't make it next week, it's +1 from me for both of them :)
[12:35] <Belutz> amachu, i'll write it in their wiki page
[12:36] <amachu> iang: mdamt : thank you both for coming..
[12:36] <amachu> Belutz: ok fine
[12:36] <mdamt> Belutz: Thanks.
[12:36] <iang> thanks belutz :)
[12:36] <amachu> iang: mdamt : I looked at the wiki and I would like to see more into it
[12:37] <Belutz> mdamt, iang, I'm the one who should thanking you guys :)
[12:38] <amachu> iang: mdamt : there?
[12:38] <mdamt> Yes.
[12:38] <iang> yes?
[12:39] <amachu> more references & links that can prove both of your contributions
[12:40] <amachu> my 2 cents, I thought of sharing
[12:40] <mdamt> Right, I thought I've put links in most of them already.
[12:41] <iang> ok.. i'll check mine again..
[12:41] <amachu> mdamt : based on experience board would ask for more, specific things that could validate your application
[12:42] <mdamt> Ok.
[12:42] <amachu> fine then.. anything else to share?
[12:42] <amachu> i apologise for any incovenience caused
[12:43] <Belutz> amachu, thanks :)
[12:43] <iang> no problemo :)
[12:43] <mdamt> Thanks anyway!
[12:43] <iang> thanks
[12:43] <amachu> Belutz: Thank You.
[12:44] <Belutz> amachu, no worries :)
[12:44] <amachu> mdamt: iang: thanks for participating
[12:44] <amachu> see you all next week.
[12:44] <amachu> :-)
[12:44] <amachu> elkbuntu: lifeless ??
[13:29] <jussi01> @now gmt
[15:00] <emgent> @schedule rome
[15:07] <ScottK-laptop> @now
[15:10] <lukehasnoname> I'm still perplexed by the fact that our London offices are running 6 hours ahead of us, but this is 5 hours ahead
[15:11] <ScottK-laptop> This is UTC.  What's perplexing about that?
[15:12] <lukehasnoname> hold on
[15:13] <lukehasnoname> mhm.... I thought London was UTC
[15:13] <lukehasnoname> but apprentrly not
[15:29] <tacone> hello all
[15:29] <tacone> brb
[15:38] <emgent> hello there.
[15:38] <ivoks> hi
[15:41] <ScottK-laptop> lukehasnoname: Nope.  Not in the summer.
[15:41] <ScottK-laptop> Hello ivoks and emgent.
[15:58] <sommer> hey all
[15:59] <lukehasnoname> morn
[16:00] <mathiaz> hello all !
[16:00] <sommer> o//
[16:00] <Koon> o/
[16:01] <zul> hello
[16:01] <tacone> hello
[16:01] <kirkland> howdy
[16:01] <mathiaz> let's get started
[16:01] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is mathiaz.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:02] <mathiaz> The previous meeting minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080715
[16:02] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Add 'status' action to server init scripts
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Add 'status' action to server init scripts
[16:03] <mathiaz> kirkland: ^ ?
[16:03] <kirkland> mathiaz: howdy, yessir
[16:03] <mathiaz> kirkland: I've noticed you've generated a first list of init scripts
[16:03] <kirkland> mathiaz: Right, so Debian has accepted, in toto, the status_of_proc() functionality, and we've merged the updated lsb-base package into Intrepid
[16:03] <mathiaz> kirkland: however this list should be trimmed as some ot them don't need to have status action added to them
[16:04] <kirkland> mathiaz: and I did generate a rough list of init scripts, as found in default installs of Intrepid server/ubuntu-desktop/kubuntu/xubuntu
[16:04] <kirkland> mathiaz: that's absolutely true.  i'm hoping we can leverage the nature of the wiki to make that happen.
[16:04] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'd encourage people to add/remove scripts to/from that page, as they review it
[16:04] <ScottK2> mathiaz: I have to go to a meeting very shortly.  I'd appreciate just a minute or two early in the meeting before I have to go.
[16:04] <kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InitScriptStatusActions
[16:05] <mathiaz> kirkland: I'd filter the list and reduce it to the package that have a daemon running so that the status_of_proc can be used in there
[16:05] <kirkland> mathiaz: I'd like to see links to bug numbers, if and when people work on those
[16:05] <mathiaz> ScottK2: go ahead
[16:05] <ScottK2> Thanks
[16:05] <kirkland> mathiaz: cool, would you do the first pass of filtering, then?
[16:05] <ScottK2> A lot of people said they wanted clamav/spamassassin in Main.
[16:06] <mathiaz> kirkland: I'll find someone to do it - I've got a couple of mentoring requests
[16:06] <ScottK2> Looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClamavSpamassassinInMain, it's been sommer and I so far doing the work.
[16:06]  * ScottK2 does not have time to do all these MIR due to $WORK, so this is a call (again) for people who want this to invest some time in it.
[16:06] <ScottK2> MIR are not that hard to do and I'll be glad to answer questions/review stuff.
[16:07] <ScottK2> mathiaz: That's it.
[16:07] <mathiaz> ScottK2: ok - great !
[16:07] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to ask prospective mentors to trim down the list of init scripts.
[16:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to ask prospective mentors to trim down the list of init scripts.
[16:07] <ivoks> ok, i'll help, but don't expect miracles... me does the $WORK too :D
[16:08] <sommer> and I should have more time this week/weekend for some mir action
[16:08] <mathiaz> ivoks: are you refering to MIR or status init script ?
[16:08] <ivoks> MIR
[16:08] <mathiaz> ivoks: ok.
[16:08] <mathiaz> I'll mention the MIR in the minutes again
[16:08] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Integration of SASL and Postfix
[16:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Integration of SASL and Postfix
[16:09] <mathiaz> ivoks: did you have time to discuss the issues with lamont ?
[16:09] <ivoks> i've sent an email, but didn't get response
[16:09] <lamont> mathiaz: I expect he has, I haven't had time...
[16:09] <ScottK2> ivoks: Thanks.
[16:09] <mathiaz> ivoks: lamont ok - great
[16:10] <mathiaz> That's all from the last meeting - anyone wants to add something ?
[16:10] <lamont> ivoks: I expect I'll have time tomorrow evening or so to at least look at thing
[16:10] <lamont> s
[16:10] <ivoks> lamont: ok
[16:11] <mathiaz> emgent: around ?
[16:11] <tacone> mathiaz: no
[16:11] <tacone> I am here to talk in his place.
[16:11] <mathiaz> tacone: are you here for rapache ?
[16:11] <tacone> he will try to get here later if he can
[16:11] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Rapache presentation and discussion
[16:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Rapache presentation and discussion
[16:11] <tacone> omg, already, ok
[16:11] <mathiaz> tacone: we can postpone if you want
[16:11] <tacone> no no:)
[16:11] <tacone> after the UDS emgent came back and told me that
[16:12] <tacone> people felt the need to have more server-related GUIs
[16:12] <tacone> from that born rapache.
[16:12] <tacone> Rapache is an Apache configurator gui
[16:13] <tacone> I am unsure about the scope of it. If it falls in ubuntu-server or not, because is a desktop application.
[16:13] <tacone> our goal is to lower the entry barrier for former windows system administrators used to configure IIS with a program
[16:14] <mathiaz> tacone: does it support administrating remote servers ?
[16:14] <mathiaz> tacone: it seems that it's requires a desktop environment to run it
[16:14] <tacone> mathiaz: currently NOT. that's in the road map as a very high priority
[16:14] <tacone> that's a nice point, let me elaborate
[16:14] <mathiaz> tacone: screen shots somewhere ?
[16:14] <tacone> LOL
[16:14] <tacone> too fast :)
[16:14] <emgent> hello
[16:15] <mathiaz> tacone: I don't see any on the rapache website
[16:15] <mathiaz> http://www.rapache.org/
[16:15] <tacone> http://www.stefanoforenza.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/rapache-main.png
[16:15] <tacone> http://www.stefanoforenza.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/rapache-edit-window.png
[16:15] <tacone> http://www.stefanoforenza.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/rapache-modules.png
[16:15] <emgent> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/rapache
[16:15] <tacone> http://www.stefanoforenza.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/rapache-syntax-highlightining.png
[16:15] <tacone> I am not sure also how much time I have to talk here, so feel free to stop or warm at any time
[16:16] <tacone> we put together a blueprint: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasyGuiApacheSetup
[16:16] <mathiaz> tacone: ok
[16:16] <tacone> Supporting remote servers: that's in the roadmap but not trivial
[16:17] <ivoks> does augeas support remote configuration?
[16:17] <tacone> so we just started on localhost
[16:17] <emgent> true, anyway 0.5. version is available on rapache-devel PPA
[16:17] <ivoks> if yes, then moving to augeas would solve that problem :)
[16:17] <tacone> ivoks: not on my knowledge
[16:17] <mathiaz> tacone: ok - great - I guess most of us are server people - so we're more interested in non-GUI environment
[16:17] <tacone> we thought about augeas but we'd like to see how things develop with it.
[16:17] <mathiaz> ivoks: not that know of
[16:17] <emgent> https://launchpad.net/~rapache-devel/+archive
[16:17] <soren> I think Func is meant to add remoteness to augeas. I'm not sure, though.
[16:18] <mathiaz> tacone: ok - seems like a good start - you'd probably need to update the wiki page
[16:18] <tacone> mathiaz: actually I am not sure were to talk about rapache. in ubuntu-server, ubuntu-desktop, lol
[16:18] <tacone> mathiaz: we have too much stuff around, it's falling outdated :-)
[16:18] <mathiaz> tacone: it seems that this is a case where you can discuss on both channels
[16:18] <mathiaz> tacone: probably ubuntu-server is a good place to start with
[16:18] <tacone> mathiaz: we're starting with ubuntu-server :)
[16:19] <ivoks> right, we'll help on backend :)
[16:19] <mathiaz> tacone: that's where you'll find most of your users
[16:19] <tacone> nice.
[16:19] <tacone> well rapache won't require sysadmin to install anything on remote servers
[16:19] <mathiaz> anything else on rapache ?
[16:19] <tacone> but an ssh certificate, I think that could be quite valuable
[16:20] <tacone> as not every sysadmin wants to have estraneous programs on their machine
[16:20] <tacone> I guess we're done for now, unless you have more questions
[16:20] <mathiaz> tacone: not for me
[16:20] <tacone> emgent: around ? anything other to say ?
[16:21] <mathiaz> tacone: thanks for you presentation ! keep up the good work
[16:21] <tacone> as the last thing one question from me
[16:21] <tacone> where should we continue the discussion ? shall we talk with ubuntu-desktop people ?
[16:22] <mathiaz> tacone: I think #ubuntu-server is the best place to keep discussing
[16:22] <mathiaz> tacone: that's where you'll find most of your end-users
[16:22] <tacone> nice, you'll see us there often then :)
[16:22] <mathiaz> let's move on
[16:22] <tacone> thank you very much everyone for listening.
[16:22] <mathiaz> tacone: you're welcome :)
[16:22] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review progress made on the specification listed on the  Roadmap.
[16:23] <Moot2> New Topic:  Review progress made on the specification listed on the  Roadmap.
[16:23] <mathiaz> Our roadmap: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:23] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
[16:24] <mathiaz> sommer: what's going on this front ?
[16:24] <sommer> mathiaz: good, almost have Kerberos wrapped up
[16:24] <Moot2> New Topic:  Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
[16:24] <mathiaz> sommer: anything that could be reviewed/tested ?
[16:24] <mathiaz> sommer: I hadn't had time to look into the bzr changes
[16:24] <sommer> samba stuff, definitely needs some review
[16:25] <mathiaz> sommer: it's still on my todo list
[16:25] <mathiaz> sommer: ok
[16:25] <sommer> mathiaz: cool, there's still time
[16:26] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu VM builder
[16:26] <Moot2> New Topic:  Ubuntu VM builder
[16:26] <mathiaz> soren: ^ ?
[16:26] <soren> Ah, yes.
[16:26] <soren> I'm working on a complete rewrite in Python.
[16:27] <soren> This is mainly to be able to use it as more of a library (to be able to embed it in various things).
[16:27] <soren> Another side effect is that we can add lots more logic to it.
[16:27] <soren> Of course, we could have done that in bash too, but it's loads easier in Python.
[16:28] <ivoks> and more cool
[16:28] <soren> It's shaping up rahter nicely, but I'm adding Xen support to it, and that involves changing some core things about the disk handling stuff.
[16:28] <mathiaz> soren: is there anything ready for more widespread consumption/testing ?
[16:29] <soren> People are very welcome to grab the code off of launchpad and play around with it. It should be able to build dapper, feisty, gutsy, hardy, and intrepid, kvm VM's.
[16:29] <soren> ...everything else will be added over the next couple of weeks.
[16:29] <mathiaz> soren: is there a package in intrepid and/or hardy ?
[16:29] <mathiaz> soren: some documentation somewhere ?
[16:30] <soren> Not right now, no.
[16:30] <soren> I'll probably upload it to Intrepid as a new package, and then yank the old one out when they're on par.
[16:31] <macd> Am I too late for server?
[16:31] <mathiaz> soren: ok - once there is some basic documentation written, testing by other can start
[16:31] <soren> The cli is rather self-documenting, I think.
[16:31] <mathiaz> macd: not really - we're just hald-way through
[16:31] <soren> Documentation contributions are also very, very welcome :)
[16:32] <macd> mathiaz, great I just want to hit on the ruby stuff going on at the end if thats ok
[16:32] <mathiaz> soren: at least a README file or Getting started even if it's 10 lines
[16:32] <soren> Good point.
[16:32] <mathiaz> macd: ok - I'll add a point to the agenda
[16:32] <macd> ty
[16:32] <soren> I'll whip something up.
[16:33] <mathiaz> soren: just so that people can get started with it and play around
[16:33] <soren> Right.
[16:34] <mathiaz> [ACTION] soren to write a short README file to help people get started with ubuntu-vm-builder
[16:34] <MootBot> ACTION received:  soren to write a short README file to help people get started with ubuntu-vm-builder
[16:34] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Migrate openldap configuration to cn=config
[16:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  Migrate openldap configuration to cn=config
[16:34] <mathiaz> I'
[16:34] <soren> You'
[16:34] <soren> :p
[16:34] <mathiaz> I worked on that during last week
[16:35] <mathiaz> I got a patch that supports new install and upgrade and sent it to the debian maintainers
[16:35] <mathiaz> I'm waiting for feedback on it
[16:36] <mathiaz> Once it's there, it should be easier to implement things like schema/module loading
[16:36] <mathiaz> I may look into FreeIPA
[16:36] <mathiaz> to see if we can get something in ubuntu
[16:37] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Boot Support for Degraded RAID
[16:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  Boot Support for Degraded RAID
[16:37] <mathiaz> kirkland: ?
[16:37] <kirkland> mathiaz: I have a test that works on KVMs
[16:37] <kirkland> mathiaz: s/test/patch/
[16:38] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'm going to test on real hardware, now that I'm back home, and submit
[16:38] <kirkland> mathiaz: there's more to be done in the installer
[16:38] <mathiaz> kirkland: do you know to whom it should be submit for review ?
[16:39] <kirkland> mathiaz: kees said kees -> cjwatson -> evand
[16:39] <kirkland> mathiaz: the first in the series of patches is relatively minor
[16:39] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'll attach it to the bug today, assuming the real-hw test goes as expected.
[16:40] <mathiaz> kirkland: ok. Is it worth asking for more testing  now ?
[16:40] <mathiaz> kirkland: or we'd better wait for the inclusion in intrepid ?
[16:40] <kirkland> mathiaz: well, i have a pkg in my PPA
[16:40] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'm certainly open to any feedback on that (mdadm)
[16:40] <mathiaz> kirkland: what is required to do testing ?
[16:40] <kirkland> mathiaz: huah...  well, in KVM it's extraordinarily complicated
[16:41] <soren> why?
[16:41] <kirkland> mathiaz: unless soren has some magic to make that easier
[16:41] <mathiaz> kirkland: let's assume on real hw then
[16:41] <kirkland> mathiaz: really hardware, you just need 2 physical disks (can be flash media > 1GB)
[16:41] <kirkland> soren: i'm open to advice as to providing a new KVM machine to-be-installed with 2 physical disks from the start
[16:42] <kirkland> soren: at least through virt-manager, that's not easy
[16:42] <kirkland> soren: so for my testing, i've been doing an install with 1 machine, raiding two partitions on the same disk together
[16:42] <soren> kirkland: Well, it's a GUI, so there's a lot of clicking to do anything.. :) Is it more difficult than expected?
[16:42] <kirkland> soren: then after install, adding another physical disk to the VM, and then to the RAID
[16:42] <kirkland> soren: and then, I have a setup I can work with
[16:43] <mathiaz> kirkland: so you'd install intrepid on a two-disk system that boots from a raid array on /, install your ppa adm package, poweroff, remove one disk, power on and it should still be booting ?
[16:43] <soren> Huh?
[16:43] <soren> Oh, because you can't add two disks to begin with?
[16:43] <kirkland> mathiaz: yes assuming you have either a) edited the config file to tell it to do so, or b) pass it the appropriate kernel option
[16:43] <soren> I highly recommend not using virt-manager for the initial install then. :)
[16:43] <kirkland> soren: right...  i'd like to start off an install with two .img disks
[16:44] <mathiaz> soren: kirkland: could you figure out a way to simplify the testing instructions using KVM ?
[16:44] <kirkland> mathiaz: the default behavior should be as it always has...  on missing disk, drop to initramfs prompt
[16:44] <stgraber> kvm -hda blah.img -hdb blah1.img -m 512 -cdrom ubuntu-server.iso
[16:44] <mathiaz> kirkland: could you add some testing instructions to the wiki page ?
[16:44] <kirkland> mathiaz: sure
[16:45] <mathiaz> kirkland: great
[16:45] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'm actually a little slammed at the moment
[16:45] <kirkland> mathiaz: but I'll see what I can do
[16:45] <mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to update the wiki page BootDegradedRaid with some testing instructions
[16:45] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to update the wiki page BootDegradedRaid with some testing instructions
[16:46] <kirkland> stgraber: thanks, i'll run with that
[16:46] <soren> qemu-img create disk1.img 5G && qemu-img create disk2.img && kvm -drive file=disk1.img,if=ide,index=0 -drive file=disk2,fi=ide,index=1 -drive file=intrepid.iso,if=ide,media=cdrom -boot d
[16:46] <mathiaz> kirkland: well it may not be the best moment then
[16:46] <soren> Whoops.
[16:46] <soren> That wasn't supposed to go here :)
[16:46] <mathiaz> kirkland: I'm interested in figuring out how to test this thing
[16:46] <kirkland> soren: that's your login passphrase, right?
[16:46] <kirkland> :-P
[16:46] <mathiaz> kirkland: and document it
[16:46] <kirkland> mathiaz: okay
[16:47] <soren> kirkland: sssh... don't tell anyone.
[16:47] <soren> :)
[16:47] <ivoks> what? where?
[16:47] <ivoks> :)
[16:47] <sommer> hah
[16:48] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] RAILS integration
[16:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  RAILS integration
[16:48] <mathiaz> macd: /
[16:48] <mathiaz> macd: ?
[16:48] <macd> yes
[16:48] <macd> sorry, was on another screen
[16:48] <macd> First off, mod_rails is packaged, mathiaz looked at it, we'll be making those changes as soon as Neil (the packager) gets back form vac.
[16:49] <macd> mathiaz, we need some notes on REVU/LPP bug for that
[16:49] <mathiaz> macd: right - I've sent my notes to neil as I wasn't able to login in REVU :/
[16:49] <macd> and if we could get a few other people looking at it for some more acks, we can be done with that
[16:49] <macd> mathiaz, your not the only one I cant either
[16:50] <macd> Weve been talking with the debian packager for ruby/rubygems though its becoming a heated discussion
[16:50] <mathiaz> macd: yes - are these discussions public ?
[16:50] <macd> Hes not a rails user at all so he dosnt really understand the paths for gems
[16:50] <macd> yes on bug #145267
[16:51] <mathiaz> macd: right - gems are problematic from the distribution POV
[16:51] <macd> are they ever :/
[16:52] <macd> In my mind the decision just needs to be made, either we rip gems from  universe, and rails people install from source (which most do) or fix it to behave
[16:52] <mathiaz> macd: IIUC there a some similar issue with python eggs
[16:53] <soren> gems to Ruby what Pear is to PHP, right?
[16:53] <mathiaz> soren: IIUC - yes
[16:53] <soren> Ok.
[16:53] <macd> Neil and I have been talking about fixing gems, and having something like apt-build build gems as they become updated
[16:53] <macd> soren, yes, pretty much
[16:53] <mathiaz> macd: and CPAN for perl
[16:53] <soren> macd: So it downloads some source code, builds it and installs it somewhere, right?
[16:54] <macd> soren, yep
[16:54] <macd> the problem being the debian gems, and the surce installed gems dont end up in the same place
[16:54] <mathiaz> macd: it's a general issue with scripting langages - it may be interesting to look at what other langages are doing
[16:54] <soren> Well, depending on how they designed it, it could be either really easy to shove the compiled stuff somewhere under /var or it could be really, really difficult. :)
[16:55] <macd> soren, I almost suggested the whole thing just be one package in /opt ;P
[16:55]  * soren cringes
[16:55] <ivoks> apt-gem?
[16:55] <macd> ivoks, thats a long term idea for sure
[16:55]  * soren wacks ivoks
[16:55] <macd> but I dont see that being in intrepid ;'P
[16:56] <macd> Does anyone have any other ideas?
[16:56] <soren> It's hard to say without knowing more about gems.
[16:56] <macd> Im about out, short of what I mentioned above with just ripping gems out for now
[16:56] <macd> soren, you can look at that bug I posted with gems, and it covers it very well
[16:57] <soren> Why is it a problem that ruby "things" from apt get installed in a different place than the ones isntalled by gems?
[16:57] <macd> Its seriously just a path
[16:57] <mathiaz> macd: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgems-ruby/+bug/145267 ?
[16:57] <macd> soren, the rails app looks in a specific place
[16:57] <macd> soren, and there is no way short of creating symlinks that it can look somewhere else
[16:57] <soren> macd: So add another place to look?
[16:57] <macd> soren, rails isnt capable of looking in more than one place
[16:57] <ivoks> jesus...
[16:57] <macd> thats the caveat that the gems maintainer doesnt seem to grab either
[16:58] <soren> Fix it.
[16:58] <Koon> macd: I suppose it could be patched to do it
[16:58] <soren> :)
[16:58] <macd> I bet it could, and we filed a bug upstream with rails
[16:58] <ivoks> all languages support multipath
[16:58] <macd> but those guys arent budging.
[16:58] <Koon> we have kinda the same problem with maven, though it's a little worse (it downloads already-built blobs)
[16:58] <mathiaz> macd: do you have the upstream rails bug url ?
[16:59] <macd> Most gems are binary already, but some do compile against ruby1.8 or ruby1.9 which presents another problem with debian gems
[16:59] <macd> mathiaz, take a quick laugh I dont have my bookmarks sync'd
[16:59] <macd> ;)
[16:59] <macd> but I'll add it to the rails spec wiki page later today
[17:00] <soren> macd: Clueless question alert: Google mentions $LOAD_PATH which seems to be a list of places to look for "stuff".
[17:00]  * soren doesn't know ruby lingo, so "stuff" will have to do.. :)
[17:00] <mathiaz> macd: great - if you can add links to the relevant ressources on the web that talk about the issue, it would be very helpful to get up-to-speed on the issue
[17:00] <soren> Why is that variable insufficient?
[17:00] <mathiaz> @schedule
[17:00] <macd> soren, one sec
[17:01] <macd> # Add additional load paths for your own custom dirs
[17:01] <macd>   # config.load_paths += %W( #{RAILS_ROOT}/extras )
[17:01] <macd> that is for plugins
[17:01] <mathiaz> Ok - let's move on - as we're running out of time
[17:02] <soren> And gems are... what?
[17:02] <soren> Ok, we can talk in #ubuntu-server in a bit.
[17:02] <persia> soren: It's binaries, not libraries: it's perfectly possible for one gem to depend upon another and run binaries included in the gem depended upon.  This doesn't work in SUDO without mangling /etc/environment, which is not indended for automated modification post-install.
[17:02] <macd> sure
[17:02] <macd> persia, thats pretty spot on as to whats happenning
[17:02] <soren> persia: Oh, things have to be in $PATH, not ruby's library path or whatnot?
[17:02] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[17:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[17:03] <macd> soren, yes, exactly
[17:03] <mathiaz> Anyone wants to add something ?
[17:03] <persia> soren: Depending on the gem, possibly both (but I'm not continuing more, given the desire of the chair).
[17:03] <soren> -> #ubuntu-server
[17:03] <macd> we can continue in -server in about 20?
[17:04] <mathiaz> Anyone wants to add something ?
[17:04] <ivoks> openssl patches
[17:04] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Migrate new installs and upgrades of client and server packages to use SSL v3 or TLS
[17:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Migrate new installs and upgrades of client and server packages to use SSL v3 or TLS
[17:04] <ivoks> i've been working on them; only left are proftpd and lighttpd (both universe)
[17:05] <ivoks> so, this will work, but we would be far better of with disabling sslv2 in openssl
[17:05] <mathiaz> ivoks: you've started a thread on -devel about removing support for sslv2 in openssl
[17:05] <mathiaz> ivoks: what's the current situation ?
[17:05] <ivoks> smaller delta with debian and a sure thing we disabled it everywhere
[17:05]  * nealmcb1 waves from oscon
[17:05] <ivoks> there's a proposal that we should really disable sslv2
[17:06] <ivoks> so, atm, we are waiting for really good argument against that action :)
[17:06] <ivoks> (disable in openssl)
[17:06] <ivoks> as it is disabled in NSS and gnutls
[17:06] <mathiaz> ivoks: ok
[17:06] <soren> I like that idea, but I'm sort of worried about 3rd party stuff still requiring it.
[17:07] <ivoks> soren: openssl-sslv2 package in universe?
[17:07] <soren> That's what I'm thinking. That was a good idea.
[17:07] <ivoks> we already have packages like that
[17:07] <zul> im sitting on dovecot and apache patches until we get a resolution
[17:07] <soren> Built from the same source, so we don't have much of a maintenance overhead.
[17:07] <ivoks> apache is one example; same source, multiple binaries with different options
[17:08] <ivoks> zul: there's vsftpd patch too
[17:08] <zul> ivoks: ah ok
[17:08] <mathiaz> it may be worth preparing a patch to the openssl package for the -sslv2 option in universe
[17:08] <ivoks> mathiaz: i'm ready to do that
[17:09] <mathiaz> ivoks: great - it may help in the discussion: to see the code
[17:09] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to prepare a patch for the openssl package to disable sslv2
[17:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to prepare a patch for the openssl package to disable sslv2
[17:09] <ivoks> this is the only right way to do it
[17:10] <mathiaz> ivoks: thanks for your help
[17:10] <mathiaz> Anything else to add ?
[17:10] <mathiaz> [TOPCI] Open Discussion
[17:10] <ivoks> anyone using redhat-cluster-suite, please report any problems :)
[17:11] <ivoks> it turns out we have lots of redhat-ism in that package
[17:12] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[17:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
[17:12] <zul> ivoks: not surprising :)
[17:12] <mathiaz> same place, same time, next week ?
[17:12] <ivoks> sure
[17:12] <kirkland> yup
[17:13] <Koon> ok
[17:13] <mathiaz> excellent then - see yu all next week here
[17:13] <mathiaz> keep up the good work
[17:13] <macd> thanks!
[17:13] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[17:13] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:16.
[17:13] <sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
[17:14] <soren> 11:16?
[17:14]  * soren hands ntp to Mootbot
[17:14] <mathiaz> soren: UTC-5
[17:14] <soren> UTC-4.92 is more like it
[17:14] <soren> And that is a bad, bad timezone.
[17:15]  * soren does not approve
[17:15] <soren> http://cat.bloctum.com/portalet/files/2007/11/jakob-nielsen.png
[17:17] <ivoks> soren rulez
[17:19]  * persia points at the Pacific/Chatham timezone for +12.75 as precedent for such things.
[17:22] <nxvl> mathiaz: meeting over?
[17:22] <mathiaz> nxvl: yes
[17:22] <nxvl> :(
[17:22]  * nxvl jumps into irclogs.u.c
[17:32] <popey> @schedule
[17:33] <nealmcb1> soren: I filed a bug last wee
[17:33] <nealmcb1> week
[18:43] <Alibb> @now
[18:43] <persia> Cool.  ubottu has a new improved clock!
[18:44] <Alibb> yeah
[18:54] <juliux> popey: JanC effie_jayx boredandblogging wakeup ping;)
[18:54] <Dark_Shadow> hi
[18:55] <effie_jayx> juliux,  5 minutes?
[18:55] <juliux> yep
[18:55] <popey> pong
[18:55]  * popey wonders whether to eat beef stew during the meeting or after
[18:55]  * popey switches off the webcam
[18:55] <boredandblogging> hehe
[18:56] <JanC> pong (reading the ML now)
[18:56] <boredandblogging> jcastro: ping
[18:56] <jcastro> boredandblogging: pong
[18:56]  * juliux gets some fish in a few minutes
[18:57] <boredandblogging> jcastro: think you will be first when we start in a few minutes
[18:57] <jcastro> I'm ready!
[18:57] <effie_jayx> 3 mins
[18:58] <nizarus> 2 mins :p
[18:58] <effie_jayx> boredandblogging,  we are going for fixed time or full
[18:58] <effie_jayx> boredandblogging, ?
[18:58] <Syntux> 1.5
[18:58] <boredandblogging> effie_jayx: don't think there is a meeting till 22:00 UTC
[18:58] <boredandblogging> so if we have a quorum, we can go longer
[18:58] <popey> heh
[18:58] <popey> I'm in the one at 22:00 too!
[18:58] <effie_jayx> boredandblogging,  great then
[18:58] <popey> would like a break between if we can
[18:59] <boredandblogging> popey: the needs of many... :-)
[18:59] <juliux> popey: are 2min enough for two beers?
[18:59] <juliux> :-)
[18:59] <Syntux> 18 to 22! someone should sponsor LCC with free Sauna.
[18:59] <Rafik> hello all
[19:00]  * popey has san miguel
[19:00] <Anis_CHEBBI> hello /all
[19:00] <nizarus> hi Syntux
[19:00] <nizarus> hi to all
[19:00] <Alibb> hi everyone , here we are the tunisian team
[19:00] <Syntux> Hey nizarus :-)
[19:00] <boredandblogging> shall we get started?
[19:00] <nizarus> it's the d day us Syntux :p
[19:00] <juliux> boredandblogging: will you be the chairman today?
[19:01] <boredandblogging> sure
[19:01] <boredandblogging> lets start
[19:01] <boredandblogging> jcastro: you are up
[19:01] <Zied_> hello every body
[19:01] <jcastro> ok!
[19:01] <Syntux> nizarus, Inshallah you'll make it
[19:01] <juliux> if you are searching for the agenda pls look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda
[19:01] <jcastro> hi everyone, I'm Jorge Castro and I've been tasked in taking on mailing list requests
[19:01] <jcastro> over the last week I've cleared out most of the queue for mailing list requests
[19:02] <jcastro> but I have one for ubuntu sri lanka
[19:02] <nealmcb> o/
[19:02] <jcastro> where the admin doesn't want to do it anymore, but we can't have it be blank
[19:02] <jcastro> so I guess I am asking if anyone knows anyone in ubuntu-lk to be administrator?
[19:03] <popey> can you ask on their list?
[19:03] <juliux> loco-contacts is also a good place to ask
[19:03] <jcastro> I had thought of that but wanted to make sure I touch base with you guys first.
[19:03] <boredandblogging> LoCoTeamList says their are hosting on google groups
[19:04] <jcastro> to let you know that I'm here and that I'll be asking around LoCo teams for info if I get a strange ticket, etc.
[19:04] <popey> just to be clear you only do ubuntu lists, not launchpad ones?
[19:04] <jcastro> right
[19:04] <jcastro> actually, I decline launchpad ones
[19:04]  * nealmcb notes that the network at oscon is laggy so he may have some outages.... 
[19:04] <boredandblogging> locos and ubuntu teams shouldn't have LP lists, right?
[19:04] <jcastro> and tell them to apply to the rt@ubuntu.com address
[19:04] <jcastro> correct
[19:05] <boredandblogging> jcastro: is the ubuntu-arabic one ticket still open?
[19:05] <jcastro> also, if a loco has fallen through the cracks and still doesn't have a list, you guys can ping/flog me personally to get it approved.
[19:05] <jcastro> That one got fixed yesterday
[19:05]  * popey volunteers ofr that one
[19:05] <jcastro> ...  and there was much rejoicing
[19:05] <effie_jayx> jcastro,  I think it is important that we explain to them the importance of having the lists hosted @ lists.ubuntu.com. we can then handle the redirection of resources
[19:05] <jcastro> effie_jayx: well, when they apply @ launchpad I mail them and explain to them that
[19:06] <jcastro> but if someone could mention that during the LoCo approval process then that would be awesome
[19:06] <popey> cool, anything else you want to say jcastro ?
[19:06] <jcastro> nope, that's it! thanks
[19:06] <Syntux> jcastro, was ubuntu-arabic really fixed?
[19:06] <juliux> jcastro: i am very happy that mailinglist request are now handle better
[19:06] <jcastro> Syntux: there were like 3 duplicate tickets, I closed them and approved the one.
[19:07] <popey> ok, next agenda item..
[19:07] <boredandblogging> i suggest we do new team approvals
[19:07] <pleia2> Arc might be napping, but there are a few of us here for the NH situation
[19:08] <popey> agreed
[19:08] <juliux> pleia2: but nh situation takes much longer then approving locoteams
[19:08] <popey> given arc added that after the locoteams
[19:08] <pleia2> fair enough :)
[19:08] <boredandblogging> anyone from Macedonia here?
[19:08] <juliux> pleia2: so we have at the end enough time to discuss nh items;)
[19:09] <JanC> Arc was awake 15 minutes ago  ツ
[19:09] <boredandblogging> so no one from macedonia
[19:09] <boredandblogging> Lithuania?
[19:09] <sirex`> Yes
[19:09] <Arc> I'm here :-)
[19:10] <boredandblogging> sirex`: Lithuania?
[19:10] <sirex`> I'm from Lithuanian LoCo.
[19:10] <sirex`> Unfortunetly our contact person can't be here. But I try to answor all of your questions.
[19:10] <juliux> lithuian or macedonia team now?
[19:10] <sirex`> We have tried to get approved before: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda/20080605
[19:12] <boredandblogging> right, last time there wasn't enough experience listed on the approval application
[19:12] <nealmcb> wow - my lag is minutes long - then I see a flood of messages.  last I saw was at 8:33 after the hour
[19:12] <popey> is one month long enough to gain that experience?
[19:12] <popey> don't we usually recommend people come back in 3 months?
[19:12] <sirex`> boredandblogging: now we added more links to event and more details aboult our experience.
[19:13] <juliux> sirex`: if i compare your application page from the last time with todays page i am very impressed
[19:13] <boredandblogging> popey: it wasn't that the team didn't have experience, there was just none listed on the approval application
[19:13] <sirex`> popey: we have experience, but it was nos in our approval wiki.
[19:13] <juliux> popey: they only for get to document it
[19:13] <popey> ah
[19:13] <juliux> popey: they experiences goes back until 2004;)
[19:14] <juliux> sirex`: btw how can you have a install fest in 2003? in 2003 there was no ubuntu;)
[19:14] <boredandblogging> sirex`: how are the plans for the Ubucon Baltic going?
[19:14] <JanC> juliux: they list that under experience with FLOSS before Ubuntu  ツ
[19:14] <sirex`> Well same people started their activity since 2003, but ubuntu just influnced more people.
[19:15] <juliux> ok
[19:15] <JanC> it seems like they have an Ubuntu-derived distro that was Debian-derived before
[19:15] <sirex`> Now we talk with people from other baltic states about Ubuntu Baltic.
[19:16] <sirex`> Latvias LoCo responded and they like the idea and want to join us.
[19:16] <sirex`> But everything about Ubuntu Baltic is just in preparation stage.
[19:17] <juliux> sirex`: do you mean ubucon baltic?
[19:17] <sirex`> Yes, sorry.
[19:17] <juliux> sirex`: what are your goals with the ubucon?
[19:17] <sirex`> Ubucon Baltic will be next even folowing by Ubucon'08: www.ubucon.lt
[19:17] <popey> sirex`: where do you mostly support new users?  forums, irc, mailing list or real life?
[19:17] <boredandblogging> how is the progress of GreenPC?
[19:18] <JanC> sirex`: is "Baltix" an Ubuntu remix (using Ubuntu repositories for most things) or more like Ubuntu is derived from Debian?
[19:18] <popey> so many questions :)
[19:18] <sirex`> juliux: it's the most successive event in lithuanian related to ubuntu.
[19:19] <jcastro>  /win 32
[19:19] <popey> [fail]
[19:19] <juliux> sirex`: ok
[19:19] <sirex`> popey: mostlin in ubuntu.lt forum and IRC. Of course most of our LoCo members installing Ubuntu to friends.
[19:20] <popey> it's certainly an impressive page
[19:20] <boredandblogging> +1 from me
[19:20] <popey> +1
[19:20] <effie_jayx> good work in documentation
[19:21] <effie_jayx> +1 from me too
[19:21] <sirex`> JanC: Baltix just adds things that is needed for Lithuanina country. All our ISP packets ant so on.
[19:21] <juliux> strong +1 from me
[19:21] <boredandblogging> JanC: ?
[19:21] <JanC> +1 from me
[19:21] <boredandblogging> congrats Lithuania
[19:21] <popey> well done
[19:21] <sirex`> Thanks of all +1's
[19:21] <juliux> congrats
[19:21] <sirex`> Thanks! :)
[19:21] <juliux> sirex`: if you need any help with ubucon contact me, i am organising the german one;)
[19:22] <boredandblogging> Tunisia?
[19:22] <nizarus> yes
[19:22] <sirex`> juliux: ok.
[19:22] <Rafik> yes
[19:22] <karimfath> yes
[19:22] <darkwise> yes
[19:22] <Alibb> yes
[19:22] <effie_jayx> wow we got quite a crowd here
[19:22] <nizarus> all tunisians are here :)
[19:23] <Rafik> ^^ nizarus will answer your questions
[19:23] <Dark_Shadow> yes
[19:23] <Anis_CHEBBI> yes
[19:23] <nizarus> i'm the tunisian team contact
[19:23] <nizarus> and i will be assisted by other members
[19:25] <effie_jayx> I see great participation in events
[19:25] <zied_> hello from tn
[19:25] <zied_> :)
[19:25] <effie_jayx> why do you hold SFD events a month later?
[19:26] <nizarus> effie_jayx, if i remember ther a was a problem to have a local for sfd
[19:26] <nizarus> in the proposed month
[19:27] <nizarus> so all FOSS tunisian clubs suggest to do it in october
[19:27] <juliux> are the meetings regular or do you call them if you need one? are they open for everybody?
[19:27] <effie_jayx> right... so that's great.. whatever works :D
[19:27] <nizarus> juliux, we have a regular monthly meetings
[19:28] <popey> i like the structured approach to your team
[19:28] <JanC> Alibb: does the "companies relationships group" have contact with many companies about Ubuntu ?
[19:28] <nizarus> and som extra meeting whe needid
[19:29] <popey> nizarus: what's the single most important thing your team does, in your opinion?
[19:29] <juliux> nizarus: how many people attend there?
[19:29] <Alibb> JanC,  in fact the goal of relation ship is 1. marketing 2. help them tu use ubuntu
[19:30] <nizarus> popey, we noted that arabic documentation are very poor
[19:30] <nizarus> popey, so with collaboration with jordanian (syntux) and maroccan we plan
[19:30] <popey> a good idea
[19:31] <nizarus> popey, we plan to concentrate our efforts to that
[19:31] <nizarus> discussion are still open
[19:31] <popey> that could potentially benefit a lot of people in your area
[19:31] <boredandblogging> has Tunisia started working with the French Team yet?
[19:31] <nizarus> yes boredandblogging
[19:31] <nizarus> we have advenced french team contact
[19:32] <nizarus> and we talked about the loco twinning concept with french leader
[19:32] <boredandblogging> what do you plan to do with the French team?
[19:32] <boredandblogging> twinning, good
[19:33] <popey> ooo I like the idea of twinning!
[19:33] <Rafik> !
[19:33] <nizarus> yes boredandblogging twunning
[19:33] <nizarus> and sharing documentation
[19:33] <nizarus> yes Rafik
[19:33] <juliux> where is huats if we need him;)
[19:34] <Rafik> I talking with huats the frech lleader about the twinning project, not later than today we began writing the items in wich we can work together
[19:34] <JanC> what does """Secretary
[19:34] <JanC> * Federate all the groups to work together in harmony.""" mean ?
[19:34] <JanC> (in the roadmap)
[19:34] <nizarus> JanC, Secretary is the head group
[19:35] <nizarus> we are diveded in 7 groups
[19:35] <Alibb> JanC, secretary task is to coordinate the ubuntu-tn groups and keep all meeting records
[19:35] <Rafik> juliux: huats used to be here, I pinged him but with no answer, Im working with him in the twinning project
[19:35] <JanC> ah, right
[19:36] <popey> looking good to me, +1
[19:36] <nizarus> juliux, we pinged huats before this meeting but no response :)
[19:36] <boredandblogging> +1
[19:36] <JanC> it looks okay to me too: +1
[19:36] <effie_jayx> +1 from me
[19:37] <juliux> looks good for me ü1
[19:37] <juliux> +1
[19:37] <juliux> very active team and enough people to run it fine in the future
[19:37] <boredandblogging> Tunisia: congrats
[19:37] <nizarus> ok thanks
[19:37] <nizarus> great
[19:37] <Rafik> Thank you all
[19:37] <darkwise> Thanks!
[19:37] <Alibb> thanks to the council :)
[19:37] <Anis_CHEBBI> greeaaaat
[19:37] <Anis_CHEBBI> thanks!!
[19:37] <nizarus> congrutulation to all members
[19:37] <zied_> thanks :)
[19:37] <karimfath> thanks
[19:37] <effie_jayx> thank you and keep the great work
[19:37] <popey> well done, keep up the good work
[19:38] <boredandblogging> looks like Malaysia added themselves today
[19:38] <nizarus> sure popey
[19:38] <juliux> boredandblogging: yes 1,5 befor the meeting;)
[19:38] <darkwise> sure effie_jayx
[19:38] <JanC> heh, they weren't there an hour before the meeting  ;)
[19:39] <boredandblogging> i'm ok with doing Malaysia, if others are willing
[19:39] <effie_jayx> I am cool
[19:39] <popey> ya
[19:39] <boredandblogging> Malaysia, you are next
[19:40] <juliux> nobody here from malaysia?
[19:40] <JanC> they were even added during the meeting, I think?
[19:40] <boredandblogging> JanC: lol
[19:41] <juliux> JanC: you are right;9
[19:41] <boredandblogging> ok, lets postpone Malaysia then
[19:41] <JanC> moving to NH then?
[19:42] <juliux> i thought reapproving;)
[19:42] <boredandblogging> we can do re-approval on the list
[19:42] <boredandblogging> i think new hampshire might be more pressing issue
[19:42] <Arc> I'd like to give the person in question a chance to join, in case he's late
[19:42] <effie_jayx> boredandblogging,  cool then
[19:43] <persia> Should reapproval not be interactive with questions?  The agenda encourages adding, and people may be in attendance.
[19:43]  * nealmcb wishes m-c was here....
[19:43] <Arc> I have a feeling he's avoiding this meeting based on our experiences with him
[19:44] <boredandblogging> are there members from the Japan team here?
[19:44] <jkbys> yes
[19:44] <shibata> yes
[19:44] <persia> yes
[19:44] <jkbys> I'm Japanese Team contact
[19:44] <boredandblogging> Arc: lets give m-c a few more minutes
[19:44] <boredandblogging> in the meantime, lets do Japan?
[19:44] <Arc> agreed, I'll try to call him as well
[19:44] <popey> m-c has had 44 mins to be fair
[19:45] <boredandblogging> popey: true
[19:45] <boredandblogging> Lets do Japan
[19:45] <popey> however it's a short notice meeting agenda item
[19:45] <popey> yes, japan first
[19:47] <JanC> maybe somebody can contact m-c directly (phone, SMS, IM, mail, ...) to ask him to come?
[19:47] <popey> 1344 members on your list is pretty impressive
[19:47] <boredandblogging> does the Japan Team meet physically?
[19:47] <juliux> do you have any numbers how many people use your remix desktop cds?
[19:47] <Arc> I have his cellphone #, if someone else would like to call him
[19:48] <jkbys> We meet about 3 times per year
[19:49] <jkbys> julux, we don't know strict numbers, but thousands of people user our remix cds
[19:49] <popey> jkbys: do you know if many people use your remix CDs?
[19:49] <popey> heh
[19:49] <popey> sorry :)
[19:49] <boredandblogging> will Japan be participating in SFD?
[19:50] <JanC> I think the project to handle Japanese language bug reports is cool
[19:50] <jkbys> boredandblogging, no
[19:51] <boredandblogging> jkbys: can you explain the LoCo Membership process
[19:51] <popey> Arc: give me his number
[19:51] <popey> via prv
[19:51] <effie_jayx> jkbys,  how do you foster more participation in events?
[19:52] <jkbys> boredandblogging, self introducing and explain their contribution for ubuntu on IRC meeting, and agreed with 2 or more current members
[19:53] <juliux> i am happy to reapprove the japan team
[19:53] <juliux> +1
[19:53] <JanC> yeah, +1 from me too
[19:53] <popey> +1 too
[19:53] <boredandblogging> jkbys: to be a member of the Japan team, an individual has to go through a membership process?
[19:53] <jkbys> effie_jayx, announce on web and ML and call help
[19:54] <jkbys> boredandblogging, yes
[19:54] <popey> i get voicemail from m-c
[19:54] <Arc> same here
[19:54] <effie_jayx> popey,  leave a message ... ;)
[19:55] <boredandblogging> jkbys: do many individuals apply?
[19:55] <effie_jayx> jkbys,  any projects for the team ? or plans are only offering the services you already have
[19:55] <boredandblogging> what is the benefit of having that membership?
[19:56] <jkbys> boredandblogging, no at the current
[19:57] <persia> boredandblogging: One of the large benefits of the Japanese Team membership process is a sense of belonging.
[19:57] <persia> Many people visit the IRC channel, forums, mailing lists, etc.  Many of these are helpful.
[19:57] <JanC> boredandblogging: what's the benefit of being an Ubuntu Member?  ;)
[19:58] <popey> JanC: ponies!
[19:58] <jkbys> effie_jayx, we have plan to switch country mirror server to more stable one
[19:58] <persia> Those who are wish are able to call themselves members of the team, which helps provide team identity.
[19:58] <boredandblogging> persia: understood
[19:59] <persia> The requirements are fairly light: the prospective member must wish to join, and two existing members must agree.  It is expected that the process will become lighter as the team grows.
[19:59] <JanC> persia: but non-Members are allowed to do the same things as Members ?
[19:59] <persia> JanC: Yes.  Non-members are permitted to do everything except say "I am a member of the team" or vote for new members of the team.  All members are expected to attend the meetings, non-members may do so if they wish.
[20:00] <juliux> boredandblogging: effie_jayx votes?
[20:01] <effie_jayx> I would advise a bit of direction in terms of future plans
[20:01] <boredandblogging> looks like they are doing work, +1 from me
[20:02] <effie_jayx> I can see the great efforts to maintaing the services for members, but I also consider more participation in events and stablishing some projects miht help there
[20:02] <effie_jayx> so my vote is +1 with those comments
[20:03] <popey> well done
[20:03] <boredandblogging> keep up the good work Japan!
[20:03] <jkbys> thank you for comments, effie_jayx
[20:03] <jkbys> Thank you all
[20:03] <nealmcb> interesting concept on team membership
[20:03] <shibata> thanks all
[20:04] <nizarus> congrutulation japan
[20:04] <boredandblogging> lets do New Hampshire, m-c had enough time to join this meeting
[20:04] <nizarus> we are twin now :)
[20:04] <jkbys> I gonna sleep. It's about 4am in Japan. Thank you.
[20:04] <BunixTux> Good night ^^
[20:04] <JanC> jkbys: goodnight!
[20:04] <employeeno5> present from NH
[20:05] <Arc> ditto
[20:05] <nikkiana> ditto
[20:05] <juliux> next one greek team?
[20:06] <popey> lets get nh done
[20:06] <effie_jayx> nh is up then
[20:06] <Arc> employeeno5 is online from work, so he may not be available later
[20:06] <popey> so in summary you have ..
[20:06] <employeeno5> i'm doing ok for now, but don't be surprised if i'm suddenly non-responsive due to phone call or some such
[20:06] <popey> * Concerns about an authoritarian leader
[20:07] <popey> * Lack of communication between new people and the existing team due to blockade by m-c
[20:07] <nealmcb> perhaps a quick decision on approving some additional leaders for nh would be the most appropriate thing at this point
[20:07] <popey> * no mailing list
[20:07] <nealmcb> and having a discussion on m-c can wait until he has more than a day's notice of a meeting like this
[20:07] <popey> nealmcb: lets see what the problems are first
[20:07] <popey> what other issues are there?
[20:07] <Arc> nealmcb: he did reply to the email about this meeting, so he is aware of it.
[20:08] <employeeno5> that's a fair summary. one person is the contact point and they're being selective about who they contact
[20:08] <Arc> that he has avoided or shot down attempts to resolve this locally
[20:09] <popey> * Leader unwilling to take on board new ideas from members
[20:09] <popey> would that be fair to say?
[20:09] <employeeno5> indeed
[20:09] <Arc> yes.
[20:09] <nikkiana> yes
[20:09] <pleia2> I'm from the US Mentors team and have worked with m-c since before he moved to NH, I've tried very hard to work with him to nudge him in the right direction, but finally gave up and brought the issue to other Mentors
[20:09] <Arc> if a person signs up on launchpad or expressed interest in person, and they are not interested in what he's envisioned for the group, they're turned away
[20:09] <employeeno5> as well as blocking new membership by his own sole disceition
[20:10] <effie_jayx> the mailing list episode is an example of "I think this is the best for the team" and not consulting
[20:10] <popey> I will say now that I have had a run in with m-c (as desertc) before when he attempted to stifle my opinion/contribution, so I _do_ understand your problem
[20:10] <pleia2> he's also banned at least one member from the #ubuntu-us-nh channel
[20:10] <pleia2> s/member/mentor
[20:10] <effie_jayx> pleia2,  he banned a mentor?
[20:11] <Arc> his vision is a small "action" group doing tabling at events, which certainly has a place within the LoCo, but his actions have made this to the exclusion of everything else
[20:11] <pleia2> effie_jayx: yes, banned nealmcb
[20:11] <popey> Arc: did he know that the loco-council were aware of this meeting?
[20:11] <JanC> pleia2: who was that and is this mentor here?
[20:11] <employeeno5> i had stood outside of this conflict until recently so made an honest a attempt and meeting him half-way on these issues
[20:11] <JanC> ah, right
[20:11] <pleia2> I left of my own accord before he could ban me
[20:11] <effie_jayx> pleia2,  their mailing list is still down?
[20:11] <Arc> popey: we emailed him last night, Nikki and myself.  we offered to withdraw this agenda item if he complied with the decisions made at the last meeting by the group and started working with us to resolve this
[20:11] <popey> effie_jayx: it's disabled
[20:11] <pleia2> effie_jayx: correct
[20:11] <Arc> he replied to that email, confirming that he received it
[20:11] <nealmcb> the issue seems mainly to be what he doen't do, not what he does. beyond getting unbanned myself (which is not really important from the team's perspective), I think at this point just opening up launchpad, mailing list, irc admin etc to others who want to participate is what would help
[20:12] <effie_jayx> I find this wrong. he cannot decide who he wants peple to participate
[20:12] <popey> indeed
[20:12] <boredandblogging> agreed
[20:12] <Arc> jcastro has approved our mailing list, based on the group's decision at our last meeting, so that one issue should be taken care of
[20:12] <effie_jayx> how sorry
[20:12] <nealmcb> arc great
[20:13] <Arc> it's also what he does do, too.
[20:13] <effie_jayx> I believe we should "encourage" him to open the mailing list and delegate it to someone more mailing list oriented
[20:13] <pleia2> I will say he's fantastic at driving advocacy himself and is very committed, he's just not very inclusive, and has resisted all attempts for it
[20:13] <JanC> effie_jayx: good idea
[20:13] <popey> i dont think you need to do that effie_jayx
[20:13] <popey> it's not the leaders role to unilaterally decide what resources the loco will have
[20:13] <Arc> he's fostered a negative atmosphere that discourages participation, including talking about people (both loco members and members of the local LUG) behind their backs
[20:13] <popey> if a member wants a mailing list, they should be able to create one
[20:13] <popey> if a member wants a forum, they should be able to create that too
[20:14] <Arc> he's also introduced the LoCo to each of us, during his "screening" process, as his own personal group.
[20:14] <popey> the leader is (in my mind) more of a point of contact and a mentor than a dictator^WLeader
[20:14] <nealmcb> I have lots of input on this, but don't think it best to talk about him when he's not here.  "route around him" for now, and deal with future behavior and other issues when he's around
[20:14] <boredandblogging> popey: exactly
[20:14] <popey> i disagree nealmcb
[20:14] <popey> we should not be routing around issues, but dealing with them
[20:15] <juliux> i think it is unfair to talk about a person if the person is not here
[20:15] <effie_jayx> popey,  do you agree that the mailing list should be opened as it offers members a chance to share ?
[20:15] <popey> if he chooses not to be here, then that's his choice
[20:15] <JanC> and he can reply in a later meeting if he wants
[20:15] <juliux> so lets recall that at the next meeting
[20:15] <popey> effie_jayx: yes,
[20:15] <Arc> we have been routing around him to some extent, in creating an Ubuntu SIG with the local LUG (which has numerous chapters and 2 SIGs already)
[20:15] <JanC> popey: we can't know if he didn't have anything else planned
[20:15] <popey> i propose an email based conversation with him from the loco-council, if nothing happens in a reasonable time, we pass it to the CC promptly
[20:15] <popey> JanC: he could have mailed
[20:16] <Arc> the idea with that was to "route around" his filtering of new people, so we could build a user community
[20:16] <popey> Arc: i dont believe thats the way forward
[20:16] <popey> we should not be routing round badness in our community, we should improve or remove it
[20:16] <JanC> popey: that would have been better behaviour, yes  ;)
[20:16] <Arc> it was pragmatic given the amount of time we've invested in trying to resolve this
[20:16] <effie_jayx> popey,  I agree, but there is a tendency to play fool here
[20:17] <popey> i would recommend that we contact m-c and give him until the next cc meet (5th Aug) to sort it
[20:17] <popey> that's plenty of time
[20:17] <popey> imagine us-nh was coming up for team approval, would you approve it based on the current state of affairs?
[20:18] <popey> if not we would recommend a way forward. which is what I propse, we recommend a way forward for m-c and the team as a whole
[20:18] <popey> this may result in m-c getting improved or removed
[20:18] <Arc> can I ask in the meantime that we have some council intervention with the launchpad in assuring that new members are no longer filtered?
[20:19] <JanC> I think we can route around him until he has given his view (he can answer by mail to our list if he prefers), and yes 5th August sounds like a reasonable deadline for that
[20:19] <Arc> we did decide unanimously at our last meeting to do this.
[20:19] <popey> Arc: to do that would mean that we dont give him the chance
[20:19] <nealmcb> well, as long as m-c isn't able to block progress, and continues to do other good stuff (from what I've heard), I wouldn't hold one idiosyncratic member against the team....
[20:19] <nealmcb> but yes - main thing is to get another launchpad admin, another irc admin, a mailing list, etc
[20:20] <effie_jayx> I would also suggest forming a small group that can help assure this does not happen again. having a CC like figure helps
[20:20] <popey> i don't think we should route round by adding new admins without speaking to him first
[20:20] <effie_jayx> popey,  I agree
[20:20] <boredandblogging> by adding the admins, we are almost saying we have taken a certain view without discussing with m-c
[20:20] <popey> yes
[20:20] <nealmcb> another == an additional admin
[20:21] <popey> that is what i understood you to mean nealmcb
[20:21] <popey> and my position stands
[20:21] <pleia2> effie_jayx: I think the role you're looknig for is already filled by the US Mentors team - we brought it here since we have no real "teeth" so to speak and m-c has rejected (banned!) our intervention
[20:21] <nealmcb> with tennessee we did the same thing, and helped m-c (desertc) revive a team where the admin was out of touch
[20:21] <effie_jayx> pleia2, I see.
[20:21] <nealmcb> without sanctioning the out-of-touch admin
[20:21] <Arc> so you're saying that the decisions made by the group are moot?
[20:21] <popey> no
[20:21] <popey> but you asked us to help
[20:22] <Arc> we did decide unanimously to add Nikki as admin, enable the mailing list, and stop member screening
[20:22] <popey> we aren't here to action your meeting minutes without question
[20:22] <popey> Arc: so do that
[20:22] <popey> what do you need us for if you have decided to do that?
[20:22] <effie_jayx> popey,  can we draw a timeline for things, I think that would ease the worries on the nh team members
[20:22] <effie_jayx> ?
[20:22] <boredandblogging> popey: they can't, only m-c has access
[20:23] <popey> boredandblogging: they can, they can ask jorge to do it
[20:23] <Arc> popey: m-c has exclusive admin access to launchpad.
[20:23] <popey> effie_jayx: yes
[20:23] <boredandblogging> right, jorge can do the lists
[20:23] <Arc> ok so we just have to contact jorge?
[20:23] <nealmcb> I think all teams should have multiple admins for each function - otherwise blockage is too common
[20:23] <popey> Arc: that depends
[20:23] <employeeno5> i agree that this requires full legitmacy.  if that requires m-c's participation we should wait. however, please understand he may avoid or deny the problem and in the meantime, all LoCo meetings are being held without his participation (by this choosing)
[20:23] <popey> if he denys or avoids then it goes to the cc, period.
[20:23] <boredandblogging> if he avoids, then its pretty easy
[20:24] <nealmcb> in tennessee, the previous team leader ignored contacts, two new leaders volunteered and were put in place in parallel, and things improved from there
[20:25] <popey> i appreciate that the nh team have taken a decision to work around m-c, but in the interest of keeping a team together and potentially working this issue out, I'd like us to at least be allowed to try to "fix" it before you do what you agreed to do
[20:25] <nealmcb> and later the team leader reappeared a little bit
[20:25] <employeeno5> i'm sorry, i meant "by his choosing" not "this choosing"
[20:25] <popey> nealmcb: i am not saying don't add admins, I am saying don't do it _right_ _now_. Let us try to mediate and resolve this.
[20:25] <popey> _then_ add the admins once we have m-c's attention
[20:26] <popey> if he refuses -> CC
[20:26] <effie_jayx> makes sense
[20:26] <boredandblogging> the fundamental issue is m-c
[20:26] <nealmcb> popey: why not have multiple admins?  are we worried that this is a coup?
[20:26] <popey> to some degree
[20:26]  * nealmcb doubts that 5 active nh folks are staging a coup :)
[20:27] <nealmcb> I've been in touch with this for 3 weeks now, and it doesn't sound like a coup to me
[20:27] <nealmcb> and if it was, what would the risk be?
[20:27] <effie_jayx> I agree with popey, I thik we must wait until he is fuly aware of what is going on.
[20:27] <pleia2> popey: how do you suggest they move on from here? talk to jcastro about a mailing list, and you folks on the loco-council talk with m-c about launchpad admins and screening?
[20:27] <JanC> nealmcb: at least this way it's obvious that this isn't a coup against the will of the team
[20:27] <boredandblogging> is there a risk in waiting two weeks to flush this out?
[20:28] <Arc> boredandblogging: energy.
[20:28]  * nealmcb nods
[20:28] <popey> boredandblogging: it probably wouldnt take that long
[20:28] <nealmcb> and trust it our ability to trust folks
[20:28] <Arc> we've invested a lot of time and energy into this already, quite frankly it's exhasting
[20:28] <popey> i am not saying wait till 5th aug at all
[20:28] <effie_jayx> I think this is a delicate matter that must not be dealt with in haste
[20:28] <popey> we can start contact with m-c today
[20:29] <popey> give him until the weekend to respond.
[20:29] <boredandblogging> agree with effie_jayx and popey
[20:29] <Arc> that sounds reasonable
[20:29] <pleia2> sounds good
[20:29] <effie_jayx> good .. timeline. that clears it
[20:29] <popey> i appreciate that it's been going on for a long time for you guys (and girls) but you brought it up with us to get help, so either you want us to help (by negotiating) or you just want us to say "yeah, go ahead, add more admin" in which case what have we helped you with?
[20:31] <popey> we can give you guys a status update by the weekend okay?
[20:31] <effie_jayx> popey,  about the mailing list, it was pleia2 question. should it be reactivated or wait for response from m-c and then reactivation
[20:31] <employeeno5> thanks for your time and advice
[20:31] <Arc> jcastro has already approved it
[20:31] <popey> personally i think anyone should be able to setup a mailing list for a team
[20:31] <JanC> BTW: is there a public log of the meeting where things were decided?
[20:31] <popey> I don't think that's the leaders role
[20:31] <pleia2> JanC: real life meeting, there are minutes prepared
[20:32] <Arc> JanC: yes minutes were taken and posted
[20:32] <effie_jayx> popey,  great then
[20:32] <effie_jayx> another thing...
[20:32] <effie_jayx> pleia2,  would you reconsider working with this team?
[20:32] <pleia2> effie_jayx: absolutely
[20:32] <popey> that would help pleia2
[20:32] <popey> great!
[20:32] <pleia2> :)
[20:32] <effie_jayx> fantastic.
[20:33] <pleia2> plus, I have family in NH, I should visit ;)
[20:33] <popey> heh
[20:33] <popey> great excuse
[20:33] <popey> "I'm just popping out"
[20:33] <nealmcb> I think there are lots of ways teams get help "facilitating" things with difficult people - pleia2 and I have done that for nearly a month.  I think this is the only body that can make the *policy* decision that admins need to be overridden.
[20:33] <pleia2> hehe
[20:33] <Arc> we'd love to have you come to our august meeting :-)
[20:33] <effie_jayx> pleia2,  great to have you on the situation again
[20:33] <popey> nealmcb: we could, yes, but I would rather not, not now
[20:33] <nealmcb> sure
[20:34] <effie_jayx> popey,  set then?
[20:34] <nealmcb> I was just responding to your question
[20:34] <popey> ah, ok
[20:34] <JanC> we just give him a chance to answer/defend himself
[20:34] <popey> shall i draft a mail to loco-council, you council members review and then we send?
[20:34] <effie_jayx> JanC,  just a plain response
[20:34] <effie_jayx> popey,  I shall be holding on for it...
[20:34] <boredandblogging> popey: and CC all the NH members involved?
[20:34] <popey> heh
[20:34] <nealmcb> I guess my main question is about our vision of leadership
[20:35] <boredandblogging> popey: i mean when its sent out to m-c
[20:35] <popey> boredandblogging: i wouldn't
[20:35] <nealmcb> do we expect a single leader, or lots of folks sharing contact and admin authority
[20:35] <effie_jayx> nealmcb,  we just have to refer to the leadership code of conduct and we have enough to deal with
[20:35] <popey> personally nealmcb I like to see "all hands to the pump"
[20:35] <popey> but with one or two "contact" people who are "go to guys (or gals)"
[20:36] <nealmcb> so adding new folks to leadership roles isn't a big deal, especially when there is good evidence of blockage
[20:36] <popey> not if everyone is in agreement, no
[20:37] <nealmcb> anyway, sounds like it won't be long before things are resolved
[20:37] <popey> yeah, I'm sure it wont
[20:37] <effie_jayx> nealmcb,  I am glad you see it that way
[20:37] <Arc> thanks for tackling this popey
[20:37] <effie_jayx> boredandblogging,  thougts?
[20:37] <popey> if by the weekend this isn't resolved, we can mail the cc to get a faster decision
[20:37] <popey> no worries Arc
[20:37] <nealmcb> arc, employeeno5, nikkiana - does that work for you?
[20:37] <boredandblogging> i understand the frustration...
[20:37] <popey> yeah
[20:37] <popey> it can'
[20:37] <boredandblogging> but I want to hear from m-c before doing anything
[20:38] <Arc> if it's just until this weekend, it's fine with me
[20:38] <popey> it can't be pleasant for you guys
[20:38] <Arc> I just want to minimise further damage with rejected/pending members
[20:38] <effie_jayx> we are all set then
[20:38] <employeeno5> yes.
[20:38] <nealmcb> why involve the cc? - decision to do what?
[20:38] <popey> hmm, didn't come out how i meant
[20:39] <JanC> CC --> ubuntu membership
[20:39] <popey> if this all kicks off, and it goes horribly badly wrong
[20:39] <boredandblogging> yes, m-c is an ubuntu member
[20:39] <popey> we can get membership revoked, launchpad accounts removed
[20:39] <popey> etc
[20:39] <popey> but thats not something we should be considering right now
[20:39] <popey> but if we did, it would be up to the cc
[20:39] <nealmcb> good
[20:39] <nealmcb> got it
[20:39] <effie_jayx> ok...
[20:39] <nealmcb> and not without the person being present...
[20:40] <boredandblogging> nealmcb: exactly
[20:40] <popey> it's amazing how a mail from mark can make people respond :)
[20:40]  * nealmcb wants m-c to continue to contribute in the cool ways he does
[20:40] <popey> *exactly*
[20:40] <Arc> ditto
[20:40] <Arc> so long as it's not in exclusion of other things people are interested in the LoCo for
[20:41] <Arc> he does have a lot of energy and interest, and there's certainly a place in the team for what he wants to do
[20:41] <employeeno5> It's true that he's still out there doing promotion. He's just doing it with out informing the group or inviting only select members through private emails. He's invited to hand out cd's at a trade show next weekend.
[20:42] <boredandblogging> ok, so we have consensus on what to do?
[20:43] <employeeno5> I will agree to what the group/advisors feel is appropriate. I just want to make sure it's being addressed on some level
[20:43] <nealmcb> so e.g. I'm banned from the irc channel #ubuntu-us-nh now (shocking to me...) - should I take that up separately with #ubuntu-ops?
[20:43] <boredandblogging> popey will send out an email to m-c and m-c needs to reply by this weekend
[20:44] <boredandblogging> nealmcb: they'll probably look into why
[20:44] <nealmcb> are any of the other current nh-folks interested in being an op in that channel?
[20:44] <magicrobotmonkey> i am one
[20:45] <JanC> nealmcb: I suggest you wait until after the weekend too
[20:45] <nealmcb> boredandblogging: it seems to be for asking about decision making processes :)
[20:45] <popey> heh, there's your unban done then nealmcb :)
[20:45] <Arc> magicrobotmonkey: can you unban nealmcb?
[20:45] <magicrobotmonkey> probably, but i dont know why he was banned, ill talk to him
[20:45] <nealmcb> ...nicely...
[20:45] <nealmcb> I can send a transcript
[20:45] <boredandblogging> nealmcb: i would suggest you wait a few more days
[20:46] <employeeno5> boredandblogging, The email plan from Popey sounds fine to me (if you're looking for concensus from NH members).
[20:46] <nealmcb> no problem
[20:46] <nealmcb> (to wait)
[20:46] <magicrobotmonkey> yea, id rather not do anything to make anyone too angry
[20:46] <nealmcb> magicrobotmonkey: yeah
[20:46] <boredandblogging> ok, good, I think we've decided on a plan for NH
[20:47] <boredandblogging> do we want to Greece?
[20:47] <popey> thanks for being patient nealmcb employeeno5 pleia2 magicrobotmonkey
[20:47] <nealmcb> :)
[20:47] <employeeno5> Thanks for the time everyone
[20:47] <employeeno5> it's much appreciated
[20:47] <boredandblogging> juliux, JanC still with us?
[20:47] <magicrobotmonkey> heh i didnt even know anything was going on till like 3 days ago
[20:47] <Arc> yea thanks for tackling this popey
[20:48] <JanC> boredandblogging: yep
[20:48] <boredandblogging> is anyone from the Greek team here?
[20:49] <effie_jayx> no Greek team?
[20:50] <boredandblogging> anyone from the Czech team?
[20:50] <vojtech_t> yes
[20:50] <juliux> boredandblogging: sure
[20:50] <Kingskid> yep, here
[20:51] <boredandblogging> lets do the Czech team then
[20:51] <juliux> i think we have 10min left
[20:51] <mhb> I am here, too (Czech)
[20:51] <boredandblogging> the web presence meeting is in a different channel
[20:51] <juliux> is there realy no roadmap for the future?
[20:53] <vojtech_t> yes, there is
[20:53] <boredandblogging> are there any other plans for 2008?
[20:54] <vojtech_t> for 2008 no, we have some plans for "far" future (next year)
[20:55] <vojtech_t> maybe some "small" plans for near future -- like translating Full Circle Magazine, or make czech screencasts
[20:55] <boredandblogging> vojtech_t: what are the plans for 2009?
[20:56] <vojtech_t> we began cooperation with Liberix -- http://liberix.cz/os_en_charakteristika.php -- non-profit OSS association -- we have some plans with grants from Europian Eunion
[20:57] <vojtech_t> *Union
[20:58] <juliux> vojtech_t: is jenda still active in czech locoteam?
[20:59] <vojtech_t> yes he is, he promised to come, but...
[20:59] <juliux> its jenda;)
[20:59] <vojtech_t> yes :-)
[20:59] <juliux> what about your plans to offer ubuntu support?
[21:00] <vojtech_t> you mean commercial support?
[21:01] <juliux> yes
[21:01] <juliux> i heard there something in the paste
[21:02] <boredandblogging> vojtech_t: what are the plans with the EU?
[21:02] <boredandblogging> EU grants
[21:02] <vojtech_t> Yes, we have some plans, but there are many problems with czech law, taxes etc.
[21:03] <Kingskid> Beside big EU plans we'd like to install Ubuntu in some elementary or high school as a showcase
[21:03] <JanC> EU grants are for concrete projects?
[21:04] <vojtech_t> EU: Liberix has expiriences and they told us its not so difficult to get grant for support OSS
[21:04] <vojtech_t> I'm not lawyer, but it looks practicable...
[21:05] <JanC> you can get a grant for specific projects, which requires a lot of paperwork both before & after, are you prepared to do that work?  ツ
[21:05] <Kingskid> http://domeknavsi.blogspot.com/2008/02/pozdrav-pr-statistik.html
[21:05] <Kingskid> Soryy, wrong window
[21:06] <juliux> vojtech_t: how many people are coming to your real life meetings?
[21:06] <vojtech_t> yes, I know... I have two books about this (500 pages together) so I know its bureaucracy...
[21:06] <vojtech_t> juliux: unfortunately not
[21:07] <juliux> vojtech_t: so there are no meetings?
[21:07] <Kingskid> we have meetings, usually 4-6 poeple come
[21:08] <vojtech_t> there are meeting, but only with few people
[21:08] <Kingskid> but we had only couple meetings so far
[21:09] <juliux> ok
[21:09] <vojtech_t> last meeting was 31.5. -- four people came...
[21:10] <effie_jayx> vojtech_t,  where would you consider to be most active?
[21:10] <JanC> why not on-line meetings (maybe there are more people then?)
[21:11] <vojtech_t> effie_jayx: I mean community support.
[21:12] <effie_jayx> vojtech_t,  any advocacy work or projects brewing?
[21:12] <vojtech_t> JanC: it's crazy but not -- we had some and many people had problems with that...
[21:14] <vojtech_t> effie_jayx: yes, but you asked for "most active"
[21:14] <juliux> vojtech_t: i have some problems to say +1 on your reapproval, i miss some documentation about your activity, your plans about the future and where some new people can join te loco
[21:14] <juliux> can you perhaps work on that?
[21:15] <effie_jayx> vojtech_t,  sorry, my question may not have come in the right way. I meant do you have any advocacy work you can consider significant or any prjects worth mentioning?
[21:16] <effie_jayx> ok... can we vote on this guys?
[21:16] <effie_jayx> boredandblogging,  juliux, JanC ?
[21:17] <boredandblogging> i would like to see more progress
[21:17] <boredandblogging> on the approval application
[21:18] <boredandblogging> vojtech_t: can you work on coming up with plans to make the Czech team more active?
[21:18] <effie_jayx> I agree, I would also like to see plans for the future. the work of building a team is enourmous but ensuring it stays active long after is very importan
[21:18] <popey> agreed
[21:19] <JanC> also, I see only one place mentioned where ubuntu-cz did a booth?
[21:20] <effie_jayx> so
[21:21] <effie_jayx> I would like the team to come back later for reapproval
[21:21] <effie_jayx> for approval sorry
[21:21] <effie_jayx> vojtech_t,  does it make sense?
[21:21] <TuniX12> oO
[21:22] <vojtech_t> yes, you're right, we've little bit underestimate the preparation for this meeting
[21:23] <vojtech_t> there are problems with document our work -- everything is in Czech, so it useless for english speaking people...
[21:23] <boredandblogging> vojtech_t: at least the links would be good
[21:23] <effie_jayx> vojtech_t,  we can futher assist you guys should you need any help ?
[21:23] <juliux> vojtech_t: if you need help you can always contact the loco council
[21:25] <JanC> or ask in #ubuntu-locoteams
[21:25] <vojtech_t> so, it's possible to come to the next meeting (of course better prepared)?
[21:26] <boredandblogging> vojtech_t: if you feel you will be ready
[21:27] <vojtech_t> I think yes -- this meeting was good experience -- now we know what to prepare...
[21:27] <boredandblogging> vojtech_t: ok, good
[21:27] <vojtech_t> thanks
[21:27] <boredandblogging> anyone from the Greek Team?
[21:27]  * huats has just arrived.... thinking that the loco meeting was 20:00 UTC (and not 20:00 local time which is 18:00 UTC)... I am really sorry for that. If you still want to talk about the twinning I'll be happy to :)
[21:28] <boredandblogging> huats: can you add it to the agenda for the next meeting?
[21:28] <huats> boredandblogging: sure
[21:28] <boredandblogging> think we are done with this meeting
[21:28] <huats> since it was a bit related to the tunisia loco
[21:28] <huats> ...
[21:28] <effie_jayx> boredandblogging, yep pretty much
[21:28] <boredandblogging> juliux, JanC, effie_jayx, popey anything else?
[21:28] <huats> that was why I mentionned it
[21:28] <effie_jayx> boredandblogging,  all fine
[21:28] <boredandblogging> huats: tunisia was approved
[21:28] <huats> boredandblogging: I know
[21:28] <popey> i think you've covered it boredandblogging
[21:28] <huats> :)
[21:29] <effie_jayx> thanks for running it boredandblogging
[21:29] <huats> sorry for the late arrival guys...
[21:29] <effie_jayx> huats,  no problemo
[21:29] <boredandblogging> excellent, thanks everyone!
[21:29] <juliux> i have nothing left
[21:29] <JanC> stopping now is okay for me (then I can go fix some food ;) )
[21:30] <boredandblogging> we are done for today
[21:30] <boredandblogging> 2.5 hours is long enough ;-)
[21:30] <juliux> yep
[21:30] <juliux> next meeting middle of august?
[21:30] <popey> heh
[21:30] <popey> ooo, i might be on holiday
[21:30] <popey> nvm, I will ssh from my phone :)
[21:30] <boredandblogging> we can discuss it on the mailing list
[21:31] <boredandblogging> have to go myself
[21:31] <juliux> ok
[21:31] <effie_jayx> see ya then
[21:31] <boredandblogging> lets adjourn
[21:31] <juliux> have a nice evening
[21:31] <effie_jayx> good nigth everyone
[21:31] <huats> have a nice evenig everyone
[21:31] <huats> juliux: how about your new home ?
[21:32] <juliux> huats: is getting better from day to day
[21:32] <huats> juliux: I am it is :)
[21:33] <huats> juliux: you should send some pics
[21:33] <huats> :)
[21:33] <juliux> i a few weeks
[21:34] <juliux> in
[21:34] <emgent> @schedule rome
[21:34] <nizarus> boredandblogging, huats missed our discussion about tunisan team
[21:35] <nizarus> and now he's here :)
[21:35] <boredandblogging> nizarus: huats will put twinning on the agenda for the next meeting
[21:35] <nizarus> ok cool :)
[21:35] <huats> nizarus: yeah I mentionned that
[21:35] <nizarus> boredandblogging, what about redirecting ubuntu-tn.org domaine
[21:36] <Syntux> As part of our celebration for the TN team and getting Ubuntu-arabic mailing list, I introduce Jad doing the Hula http://bakkouz.net/2007/08/18/bakkouz-jad-do-the-hula/
[21:36] <boredandblogging> nizarus: do you own the domain already?
[21:36] <boredandblogging> or does canonical own it?
[21:36] <huats> we'll add the twinning stuff in the next meeting
[21:36] <huats> and we'll base that on our discussions/work nizarus
[21:36] <nizarus> boredandblogging,  i think that it's owned by canonical
[21:37] <boredandblogging> nizarus: once you have a website, submit a request to rt@ubuntu.com with the IP address of the server
[21:37] <boredandblogging> and then the ubuntu DNS will point ubuntu-tn to that server
[21:37] <nizarus> ok boredandblogging
[21:40] <nizarus> thnx Syntux for the dance
[21:48] <JanC> nizarus: I think you should contact smurf about the DNS
[21:49] <nizarus> JanC, the web group is developping a draft web site
[21:49] <JanC> nizarus: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto#head-cfe4fc9d9b2edd0637a06563daf48bdb9c06e90c
[21:50] <JanC> Matthias Urlichs = smurf on IRC
[21:51] <JanC> he's in the #ubuntu-locoteams & #ubuntu-eu (& other) channels normally
[21:52] <JanC> some other people in -eu can do some changes too
[21:57] <nizarus> Syntux, can you explain me how to have our logo approved ?
[21:58] <Syntux> nizarus, send an email to trademarks@canonical.com make sure to explain that it's for ubuntu-tn use
[21:59] <nizarus> ok Syntux
[21:59] <Syntux> nizarus, sorry it's trademarks@ubuntu.com not Canonical.
[21:59] <nizarus> boredandblogging, JanC, where we can find the official info that we are an official loco team now ?
[22:00] <forumsmatthew> Greetings everyone!
[22:01] <Seveas> hi
[22:01] <stgraber> hello
[22:01] <forumsmatthew> Who is here from the emea team?
[22:01]  * PriceChild waves
[22:01] <forumsmatthew> popey?
[22:01] <Seveas> us three^Wfour
[22:01] <popey> nicole?
[22:02] <forumsmatthew> do we have enough of us to start?
[22:02] <Seveas> I think so
[22:03] <PriceChild> 5/7?
[22:03] <adiroiban> Hi. I'm Adi Roiban from the Romanian LoCo team
[22:03] <Seveas> hi adi
[22:03] <Seveas> you're right on time :)
[22:03] <adiroiban> that's great
[22:04] <Seveas> someone else please chair this time, I'm almost falling down
[22:04] <forumsmatthew> we have a pretty short list, let's start at the top
[22:04] <Seveas> the top 2 are of course not here
[22:04] <forumsmatthew> I was just looking
[22:04] <Seveas> popey, have you ever heard anything from them?
[22:04] <forumsmatthew> you are faster than me
[22:04] <Seveas> forumsmatthew, heh
[22:05] <popey> Seveas: no, I'd scratch them off
[22:05] <forumsmatthew> after our discussions and attempts, I agree
[22:05] <stgraber> +1
[22:05] <Seveas> +1
[22:05] <Seveas> hi phanatic
[22:05] <forumsmatthew> yay, phanatic
[22:06] <forumsmatthew> just in time
 we have a pretty short list, let's start at the top
 the top 2 are of course not here
 popey, have you ever heard anything from them?
 I was just looking
 you are faster than me
 forumsmatthew, heh
 Seveas: no, I'd scratch them off
 after our discussions and attempts, I agree
 +1
 +1
[22:06] <phanatic> hello guys, sorry for being a bit late...
[22:06] <Seveas> (phanatic: that's all you missed)
[22:06] <phanatic> thanks Seveas
[22:06] <PriceChild> imo anything other than approval is a rejection... i say scratch them off
[22:07] <forumsmatthew> so we have 5 votes to remove the names...phanatic?
[22:07] <phanatic> forumsmatthew: i agree
[22:07] <Seveas> ok, gone :)
[22:07] <stgraber> that's two less candidates :)
[22:07] <forumsmatthew> Next up, Adi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AdiRoiban
[22:08] <forumsmatthew> https://launchpad.net/~adiroiban
[22:08] <adiroiban> here
[22:08] <forumsmatthew> great, tell us who you are, etc
[22:08] <Seveas> adiroiban, I've been looking at ubuntu.ro -- are you interested in the http://planet.ubuntu-nl.org theme? :)
[22:09] <adiroiban> are you sugesting we should change the theme?
[22:09] <Seveas> adiroiban, no, but I saw you had ubuntu.ro in the 'new' style but planet not
[22:09] <adiroiban> ah..
[22:10] <adiroiban> we have some problems with the server hosting the ubuntu.ro
[22:10] <adiroiban> right now is locked
[22:10] <Seveas> ouch
[22:10] <adiroiban> but I'm buing a new server and will be relocated next week
[22:10] <adiroiban> then we can have acess to the files and I will also update the theme
[22:10] <adiroiban> and the wiki
[22:11] <PriceChild> adiroiban: any pics/links about the software/document freedom days or release partys?
[22:12] <phanatic> adiroiban: are you paying for the new server from you own money, or did you have some kind of fund raising in your loco?
[22:12] <adiroiban> the server is bouth by the previous team leader and me
[22:12] <forumsmatthew> adiroiban, I've read your LP and wiki pages. Nice stuff! Is there anyone here with you that knows you and plans to say something on your behalf?
[22:12] <Seveas> adiroiban, are ther plans for sfd 2008 in september?
[22:12] <adiroiban> http://www.softwareliber.ro/2008/03/16/document-freedom-day-22-martie-cluj-napoca/
[22:13] <adiroiban> this is the announce for DFD
[22:13] <adiroiban> unfortunalty we are still trying to obtain the video and pictures taken by the national televions
[22:14] <Seveas> I'm going for +1 based on what I see on ubuntu.ro and related sites, launchpad data (karma, date joined) and jani's recommendation
[22:14] <adiroiban> I have applied for SFS 2008
[22:14] <phanatic> a tiny testimonial from me as well: last year our loco member (from hungary) sent some ubuntu stickers to our fellow romanian friends. a few weeks ago our team member was approached by adi to receive some firefox stickers he got. (i hope i can remember the story well) so great work with other loco's too!
[22:14] <adiroiban> and we will have a press conference
[22:15] <adiroiban> i think the stickers are on the way
[22:15] <adiroiban> i have just sent them
[22:15] <phanatic> adiroiban: good news, thanks :)
[22:15] <adiroiban> the hungarian loco member is Ory
[22:16] <forumsmatthew> I'm satisfied. +1 from me
[22:16] <stgraber> +1 too, looks like massive LoCo and LUG involvment, long time LP user + lot of karma point (that's usually good) and for all the work on the websites.
[22:16] <phanatic> +1 from me, too
[22:16] <PriceChild> +1 adiroiban make sure you get a load of photos and things to show off on planet for sfd 2008!
[22:16] <popey> +1
[22:17] <forumsmatthew> unanimous among those present...congratulations!!
[22:17] <adiroiban> Many thanks!
[22:17] <Seveas> vongrats adiroiban, welcome aboard!
[22:18] <Seveas> phanatic, where's Ory? :)
[22:18] <forumsmatthew> Next up, Mate
[22:18] <forumsmatthew> you here?
[22:18] <phanatic> Seveas: he's on vacation :) meeting was announced to late for him...
[22:18] <Seveas> ok
[22:18] <forumsmatthew> next time, hopefully
[22:18] <forumsmatthew> Let's move to Soren
[22:18] <stgraber> sbc: around ?
[22:18]  * sbc is here
[22:19] <Seveas> shawarma left a note in my pm
 I won't have time to attend the ubuntu membership meeting this this evening, but I'd still like to put in a good word for Søren Bredlund Christensen (sbc). He's a very active and consistent contributor to the Danish LoCo team's activities. I can definitely vouch for him.
[22:20] <Seveas> I see meeting minutes of more than a year ago, so long time involvement: check
[22:20] <forumsmatthew> I like all the links on the wiki page...I'm still reading/clicking
[22:21] <sbc> Ill be quiet while you read then :)
[22:21] <Seveas> I've clicked a few and combined with testimonials from shawarma and martin pihl I'm impressed
[22:21] <Seveas> +1
[22:22] <forumsmatthew> I'm in complete agreement.
[22:22] <forumsmatthew> +1
[22:22] <popey> +1 for consistent contribution
[22:23] <PriceChild> +1 nice testimonial, photos! keep it going
[22:23] <phanatic> +1, great work
[22:23] <stgraber> +1, testimonials and all the links on the wiki page
[22:23] <forumsmatthew> congratulations! unanimous acceptance
[22:23] <Seveas> short meetings ftw
[22:23]  * sbc cheers
[22:23] <Seveas> congrats sbc!
[22:23] <sbc> Thanks guys!
[22:24] <adiroiban> Congratulations Soren
[22:25] <Seveas> See y'all next time
[22:25] <Seveas> I need sleep
[22:25] <forumsmatthew> me too...
[22:25]  * sbc goes for a celebration beer.
[22:25] <forumsmatthew> rest well
[22:25] <adiroiban> as Ubuntu member, is there a new track i can pursue
[22:25] <Seveas> adiroiban, world domination
[22:25] <adiroiban> or I should continue my activities?
[22:26] <Seveas> just continue the good work, keep ubuntu growing in Romania
[22:26] <stgraber> adiroiban: MOTU if you want to do packaging otherwise not really, continue the good work and make Ubuntu rocks :)
[22:27] <forumsmatthew> keep doing what you are doing, unless you discover a way to do it even better
[22:27] <adiroiban> ok.
[22:27] <forumsmatthew> good job, all
[22:27] <forumsmatthew> see you later
[22:27] <adiroiban> ok.
[22:27] <adiroiban> see you later