VolansNow I go... great meeting :) see you tomorrow02:10
mase_desktopping newz200011:50
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=== am__ is now known as mase_desktop
newz2000mase_desktop: hey14:34
mase_desktopnewz2000:  hey. looked at the build script. i have 1 solution which i like , which is to make all the language files well formed and transform with an xsl stylesheet, however i feel its over engineering the problem.15:10
mase_desktopyou can also add15:10
mase_desktopcmd = "iconv -f iso8859-1 -t utf-8 -o %s %s"15:10
mase_desktop   os.system( cmd )15:11
mase_desktopto the bottom of your script15:11
mase_desktopand that works too :)15:11
newz2000oh really? and you ran it and it worked ok?15:11
mase_desktoperm.. well..what wasn't working before, just the utf-8 thing15:11
mase_desktopor did i miss something ?15:12
newz2000I just felt like the solution was very inelegant. For example, it depends on each document being pretty much exactly the same except for translated text15:13
newz2000I've never used iconv before15:15
newz2000this converts from iso8859-1 to utf-8?15:15
newz2000aaahhh. Nice. I wonder if it works on cp125215:16
mase_desktopit does15:16
newz2000oooh, I wish I'd known about this before15:16
mase_desktopyeh me too, i only just learned a few weeks back15:16
mase_desktopand if you get errors15:16
mase_desktopit means the original isn't what you thought it  was15:16
mase_desktopnot sure that command is correct, the python bit. %s isn't what i thought it was15:17
newz2000that's kind of the problem in this instance...15:17
mase_desktopbut since you program in python i'm sure you worked that out already15:17
newz2000we've got at least one file that is in an unknown encoding15:17
mase_desktopthat makes it hard15:18
mase_desktopb/c afaik you can't tell what encoding it is, you can guess, but aside from working out if it's 8bit or not15:18
mase_desktopyou don't know without looking at it15:18
mase_desktopbecause when you get byte order marks, they could be actual characters15:19
mase_desktopin a different character encoding15:19
mase_desktopat least that is how i understand it15:19
newz2000sounds like you understand this far more than I do15:20
mase_desktopand a decimal number could be valid in more than 1 character set15:20
mase_desktopbut they might be different characters15:20
mase_desktopso you only know if its the right  character15:20
mase_desktopif you know your meant to be looking at a grave and you see an inflection15:20
mase_desktopbut yeh i'm not really an expert15:21
mase_desktopat least not atm.15:21
mase_desktopso if i make those language files well formed xml, will they stay that way15:21
mase_desktopor do normal humans edit these ?15:21
newz2000humans edit them unfortunately15:22
newz2000what we probably need to do is file bugs against each that is not well formed15:22
newz2000and probably against any that aren't utf-815:22
newz2000or are at least a diff charset then they're advertised as15:22
mase_desktopdo they get edited via teh web ?15:22
newz2000I don't think so15:22
newz2000check this out: iconv -f iso8859-1 -t utf8  < source/index.html.ka15:23
newz2000assuming your in the project folder for the start page15:23
newz2000well, that's not actually two interesting because its not 8859-115:23
newz2000^too interesting15:23
newz2000never mind. :-)15:24
mase_desktopheh. do these get edited by ubuntu systems ?15:24
newz2000well, volunteers create/edit these, presumably using ubuntu but no guarantees15:24
* pep wonders if you are using rosetta15:25
mase_desktopdo they get added to vcs ?15:25
newz2000the doc team is in charge of these, and presumably they don't15:25
newz2000I understand its difficult to edit large text strings in rosetta15:25
mase_desktopby the people15:25
newz2000mase_desktop: yes, I think so15:25
mase_desktopwe have a yes answer15:25
mase_desktopok, does bzr have hooks like svn ?15:26
newz2000kind of15:26
newz2000(client side)15:26
newz2000mase_desktop: this is the one:15:27
newz2000iconv -f utf-8 -t utf8  < source/index.html.gl15:27
mase_desktopok. can we add a hook, when they commit, it does iconv -f utf-8 -t utf-8 and if that generates errors then we say , it's prolly not utf-8, look at the system $LANG, does that give any information15:27
mase_desktoptry and convert15:27
mase_desktopotherwise prompt15:27
mase_desktopand say, please save this as utf-8 or tell me what charset your using15:27
newz2000that may be a challenge, because it would mean distributing a plugin to all users who translate15:27
mase_desktophmm so that doesn't get added to the checkout ?15:28
newz2000no, unfortunatley, each user has to install it in their ~/.bzr folder15:28
mase_desktopso iconv -f utf-8 -t utf8  < source/index.html.gl was meant to generate an error ?15:29
mase_desktophmm makes this hard..15:29
mase_desktophow do we get it to a known state ?15:29
mase_desktopand keep it that way15:29
newz2000this is the file that we have no clue what encoding it is in15:29
newz2000unless we read the source and see it is 8859-115:30
* newz2000 smacks head15:30
mase_desktopwell isn't it utf-8 then ?15:30
mase_desktopif it works without errors15:30
mase_desktopor at least its likely to be utf-815:30
newz2000mase_desktop: when you tried to validate, did all of them give you errors or just certain ones?15:30
mase_desktopnewz2000: only tried with 3 so not sure about them all. I'm on a slackware system which doesn't have bzr so i was being slack and only grabbed those15:32
mase_desktopbut even the template wasn't well formed15:32
mase_desktopwas missing trailing /> for img elements15:33
newz2000ooh, and it's got an xhtml doctype too15:33
newz2000shame on me15:33
newz2000oh, the images copied from the google gadget (we started out with gadgets then replaced them)15:34
mase_desktopmeh, this will solve one of the bugs on lp anyway .15:34
mase_desktopsome dude complaining about validity15:34
newz2000those guys bug me.15:34
mase_desktopi can kind of understand the desire but they could at least submit a patch :015:35
newz2000hah - good point15:35
mase_desktopanways i have a well formed template here and also  i am prepared to make the rest well formed etc.. in order to make it more flexible15:36
newz2000so your validation errors, are they malformed xml errors or are they invalid chars?15:36
mase_desktoperm invalid xml and also because i am trying to read it as xml it complains about the entities. But i can solve that i think15:37
mase_desktopby running in validation mode15:37
mase_desktopso it uses the dtd15:37
mase_desktopyeh i don't know how to go about getting well formed xml if we can't ask them to use say, conglomerate or something like that15:38
mase_desktopor even a web based xml editor15:38
newz2000mase_desktop: is this something you enjoy doing? What I mean is, would you be willing to work with the docteam to get this updated and corrected in their vcs so that all future versions are valid utf-8 xml?15:38
mase_desktopor something like svn hooks15:38
mase_desktopnewz2000: i don't enjoy doing it, i think its important though and i would be willing to yes15:39
newz2000acutally, before we do that we should wait for our next meeting15:39
newz2000we may be asking them for far more than this, and it would be a shame to have them change their process for well-formedness and then change it again because we want something diff15:39
mase_desktopyeh no worries. I'm happy to help however you see fit.15:40
newz2000I agree with some points made that the page has too much text for anyone who's seen the page more than once, so we may be asking them to summarize it into a paragraph.15:41
newz2000If we do that, then we should change their process to also ensure their text is well formed15:41
newz2000mase_desktop: what xsl tool are you using? xalan?15:41
mase_desktopnewz2000: libxsl15:42
newz2000oh, haven't tried it yet15:42
mase_desktopcomes with almost every distro15:42
mase_desktopand has python ,php, perl, ruby bindings15:42
mase_desktopand its fast!15:42
newz2000oh, then I probably hve used and didn't know it15:42
mase_desktopas in i do dynamic xslt on webpages type fast15:43
newz2000mase_desktop: ok, thanks for your probing and for the tip with iconv. That will be a huge benefit.15:44
newz2000We'll hold on the next step until we have our meeting15:45
newz2000I hate making people do any more work the necessary15:45
mase_desktopyeh thats understandable, esp when people are volunteering15:46
newz2000people like you. :-)15:46
mase_desktopyeh but i like pain! =)15:46
pepdon't we all ;)15:47
* newz2000 makes note of that15:47
mase_desktopyeh why else would we do it15:47
vbabiyHey how are you guys16:20
pepvbabiy: Fine thank you. And you?16:20
vbabiygood, just anther day :)16:21
pepI'm being forced to watch a dumb and irrealistic hacker movie by my godson16:23
pepbut apart from that everything is ok ;)16:23
mase_slaptbah which one ?16:26
mase_slapt i love hackers16:26
mase_slaptyou have the whole virtual world16:26
mase_slaptand the dude on a skateboard16:26
mase_slaptpeople wearing leopard print16:26
mase_slaptwhat more could you want16:26
newz2000a swimming pool on the roof?16:27
pepit's wargames 3 I think16:27
pepor 216:27
mase_slaptyikes didn't know they made more than one16:27
newz2000me either16:27
pepneither did I till today16:27
newz2000everything is a sequel these days. :-(16:28
pepgouvernments always look so ridiculous in these movies :)16:28
vbabiynewz2000: do we have screen res we are developing for?16:41
newz2000vbabiy: for the start page?16:41
vbabiyno feature tour16:41
newz2000oh, yes...16:41
vbabiyI am sticking with that16:41
vbabiyI am trying to look16:41
vbabiyand a different design16:42
newz2000http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/ubuntu-layout-guide.png is my guide, but its ok to deviate for this project16:42
vbabiynewz2000: thanks16:42
newz2000I think it's reasonable to target browser windows between 850 and 950px wide16:42
vbabiyyeah, I agree16:43
pepphew, I think I'm going to give my godson an introduction to networking and IT security... the dude in the movie is hacking into CIA as if it was a wifi -.-'16:59
mase_slapthave you seen NCIS ?17:07
pepyes it's a series right?17:08
mase_slaptyeh, those machines are awesom17:08
mase_slaptmatch dna in like a second17:09
pepbetter than boinc ;)17:09
mase_slaptnight all17:32
vbabiyHey any one around?19:13
vbabiyif so what do you guys think of this so far http://www.vitalysblog.com/temp/19:13
pepflashy :)19:14
unaffiliatewell good usage of big fonts19:15
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vbabiyI am not sure what I want do in the center yet19:21
newz2000bright and colorful19:21
unafiliatedvbabiy : you can put some sort of presentation which show the more reliability , flexibility and security feature in new ubuntu 8.1019:24
vbabiyunafiliated: yeah, thats a good Idea I will have to play with it later19:25
newz2000ok, I'll give it a shot too, since so many others are...19:52
newz2000http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/ft810/featuretour.png (change ext to svg for my source)19:52
vbabiynewz2000: I like the switch of screen hots19:57
newz2000just a quick sketch... the bottom items are groups of screenshots, so one page is productivity, another page is entertainment, and each page has multiple screenshots (shown as bullet points on the right, though that doesn't scale well)20:01
vbabiynewz2000: take a look new changes http://www.vitalysblog.com/temp/20:46
vbabiynewz2000: what do you think20:46
vbabiyI know the images are not 100%, I just have more time to mess with it20:46
newz2000so do the left and right portions signify next/prev images?20:48
vbabiynewz2000: do you mean to kinda have the box rotate20:50
newz2000what is that thingy called... a carousel?20:51
vbabiyI have thought of that but it will be really had to get it right in SJ20:51
newz2000vbabiy: so is this a full-width image showing three screenshots at once?20:53
vbabiynewz2000: we could try to get that to work20:54
vbabiyit will take a lot of playing to get that to work correct in js20:54
newz2000http://www.ubuntustory.com/ has something like that, though it's going quite slow at the moment20:55
vbabiynewz2000: wow thats a nice stie20:56
newz2000did you see the slider below the carousel? move it left to right20:58
newz2000its a little glitchy20:59
newz2000and I'm not suggesting we do this20:59
newz2000but it is possible20:59
vbabiyyeah, that is really nice21:00
vbabiyI think we could do this21:00
newz2000´╗┐´╗┐regarding your design...21:00
newz2000I feel like there's a lot of visual embellishment that draws your eye away from the content - for example, the color and knockout on the logo on the top left, the glass effect on the yellow box and the high brightness color21:00
newz2000I would suggest adopting the idea that less is more. Focus on the content.21:01
newz2000as a matter of fact, I'm not big on full-desktop screenshots personally. I think it's better to zoom in on the features we're highlighting21:01
newz2000though there does need to be some full shots21:01
vbabiyyeah, full shot screen shots are not the way to go21:03
vbabiyyou can't get them big enough to show enough details21:03
vbabiyI really do like the way ubuntu story did the nav21:04
newz2000yeah, I'm curious how they did that shine effect with the rays of light coming out of the map21:05
vbabiynewz2000: I can do that in Photoshop not the gimp :)21:07
vbabiyBut for this project I am staying away from photoshop21:07
=== ubot3_ is now known as ubot3
vbabiyman getting a awesome design is hard21:13
=== ubot3` is now known as ubot3

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