[07:48] <Hobbsee> i thought mpt had fixed the bug that "launchpad" doesn't take you back to launchpad.net
[07:48] <Hobbsee> shame.
[07:50] <ScottK> It's probaby now a feature of the new easier to use interface.
[07:50] <Hobbsee> well, they said it was a bug.
[07:50] <ScottK> That was before.
[07:51] <ScottK> Apparently, according to mpt, the new interface being hard for people who used the old one is a feature too.
[07:51] <ScottK> So who knows.
[07:53]  * andrea-bs thinks that a link to launchpad.net would be nice
[07:53] <andrea-bs> How about something like 'Launchpad > Blueprints > ...' ?
[08:08] <geser> oh, bugmenot.com has also account data for LP
[09:35] <Peng_> Yay
[10:49] <Ng> if someone has asked a question on my LP project, but actually has asked about a generic Ubuntu thing, how do I move the question to the right place? I'm editing it and if I just set the Project to "Ubuntu", it tells me there is no such project registered in Launchpad. If I try to move it to a distribution and pick Ubuntu, what package should it be? It's a very generic install question (but not directly related to either installer package)
[10:50] <andrea-bs> Ng: you can set Distribution: Ubuntu without a package associated with it
[10:52] <Ng> andrea-bs: err, oh yes, so I can. sorry ;)
[11:12] <Hobbsee> yay.  spam on LP users ML.
[11:24] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Yeah, I've removed the guy's account.
[11:51] <klette> gmb: Any news for me? :-)
[11:51] <gmb> klette: Indeed. Well, sort of.
[11:52] <gmb> klette: I've done a couple of imports locally, as I've said. They look okay, although I'm having some issues with SF->LP status mapping that have hopefully been resolved now.
[11:52] <gmb> klette: Actually, this would be better *not* polluting the channel. Hang on...
[12:10] <_MMA_> Hi guys. I really need a resolution to ﻿Question #38805.
[12:10] <_MMA_> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/38805
[12:13] <andrea-bs> _MMA_: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-studio-devel/+claimteam doesn't work for you?
[12:14]  * _MMA_ looks.
[12:15] <_MMA_> andrea-bs: No. Because the address I need to use there is already associated. Or was. But I disassociated it, then tried to use it for this, and it rejected me again.
[12:17] <_MMA_> andrea-bs: Ill try again. Maybe more time will have changed things.
[12:20] <andrea-bs> _MMA_: on staging.launchpad.net I've tried to insert the @lists.ubuntu.com address found in the package and it seems to work
[12:21] <_MMA_> andrea-bs: Ok. Looks like time has indeed let me claim the team with the necessary address. Maybe a couple of days were needed after I removed the needed address from the other team.
[12:24] <andrea-bs> _MMA_: have you administration rights for the ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list?
[12:25] <_MMA_> Yes
[12:27] <andrea-bs> _MMA_: you should find an e-mail from Launchpad in your lists of tend to pending moderator requests, with the steps to finish the work
[12:30] <_MMA_> ﻿andrea-bs: Damn. I messed up. I needed to claim the team yes but I needed to associate our ML ﻿"ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com" with "https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev" not "https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-studio-devel" The team that somehow got created on package uploads.
[12:31] <_MMA_> Looks like Ill have to strip it from the latter team. Wait a couple of days and give it to the right team.
[12:31] <andrea-bs> _MMA_: go to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-studio-devel/+contactaddress and choose "Each member individually"
[12:33] <_MMA_> andrea-bs: Errored. Ill have to give it some time.
[12:33] <andrea-bs> _MMA_: what does it say?
[12:34] <_MMA_> "There is 1 error" "ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com is already registered in Launchpad and is associated with UbuntuStudio Developers."
[12:36] <_MMA_> andrea-bs: In the end, I really want to get rid of this team. It wouldn't have been created if I had the address associated already. Correct?
[12:36] <andrea-bs> _MMA_: right
[12:40] <_MMA_> ﻿andrea-bs: So a merge like the original question I had would be ideal. ubuntustudio-dev absorbs ubuntu-studio-devel. And should then free up the ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com addy.
[12:40] <andrea-bs> _MMA_: I don't think that merges are for teams too, but I'm not sure
[12:42] <_MMA_> andrea-bs: Who can give me a definitive answer?
[12:44] <andrea-bs> _MMA_: try to type "/who canonical/launchpad*" (without quotes) in your IRC client and ping one of them if it is urgent
[12:47] <matsubara> _MMA_: what's the question?
[12:47] <_MMA_> matsubara: If "teams" can be merged? https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/38805
[12:47] <_MMA_> I need ﻿~ubuntustudio-dev to absorb ~ubuntu-studio-devel.
[12:48] <matsubara> _MMA_: yes, they can by a LP admin. I'll ask one of them to take a look later on today (they're not available right now)
[12:48] <_MMA_> matsubara: Thanx. I might not be in here but Im always on freenode if Im needed.
[12:49] <NCommander> I've got a question
[12:49] <NCommander> Why do bazaar branches and blueprints especially add so much karma?
[12:50] <matsubara> NCommander: https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/Karma
[12:54] <NCommander> matsubara, thanks
[13:00] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[13:01] <Hobbsee> hey mpt!
[13:02]  * Hobbsee grumbles.
[13:02] <Hobbsee> it would be nice to not have to log in twice to launchpad.
[13:23] <Hobbsee> mpt: and wow about how non-intuitive it is that a bug is private.
[13:24] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Is the gradient at the top of the content section not obvious enough?
[13:25] <Hobbsee> wgrant: you mean the one in the far corner, very small?
[13:25] <mpt> Hobbsee, I detest that logging-in-twice bug too
[13:25] <wgrant> Oh.
[13:25] <wgrant> WTF
[13:25] <mpt> Nearly made me leave the beta team :-)
[13:25] <wgrant> I see.
[13:25] <Hobbsee> yeah, exactly.
[13:25]  * Hobbsee has no idea what was wrong with the old one, that was intuitively obvious, but there you go.
[13:26] <wgrant> Good to know that my privacy portlet is secure, I guess.
[13:26] <mpt> Err, what version of Launchpad are you using?
[13:26] <mpt> There isn't a gradient at the top of the content section
[13:26] <mpt> And there isn't a padlock in the privacy box (yet)
[13:27] <wgrant> Staging, I just tried.
[13:27] <wgrant> The gradient has moved to a rather useless place.
[13:27] <Hobbsee> Help improve Launchpad
[13:27] <Hobbsee> © 2004-2008 Canonical Ltd. | Terms of use |
[13:27] <Hobbsee> bah.
[13:28] <Hobbsee>  Launchpad 2.0 (r6754)  beta site
[13:28] <NCommander> Hobbsee, I don't have a gradient there
[13:28] <wgrant> Oh, we're 2.0 now?
[13:28] <wgrant> NCommander: No gradient on private bugs at the top of the privacy portlet?
[13:28] <Hobbsee> NCommander: look harder, or find a private bug.
[13:29]  * NCommander resists the urge to make a Web 2.0 joke
[13:29] <NCommander> wgrant, yeah, it went 2.0 with the skin "upgrade"
[13:29] <wgrant> NCommander: I thought it was 1.99 a couple of days ago.
[13:30] <NCommander> wgrant, I run edge, but its been 2.0 for awhile since the skin got rolled out to production I think
[13:30] <andrea-bs> wgrant: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/launchpad-users/2008-July/004023.html ;)
[13:32] <wgrant> Hm, the breadcrumbs are much simpler? You mean the navigation was removed from them?
[13:32]  * Hobbsee wonders what api's will come in the next month, then.
[13:34] <mpt> wgrant, I think that's a slight miswriting. They're hopefully more obvious now (a little larger, and detached from the top of the page), but no simpler than they were a month ago.
[13:34] <mpt> There have been some cases where things were in the hierarchy that shouldn't have been. Some of those were fixed in 1.2.6.
[13:35] <wgrant> What was the rationale for the privacy gradientish-thing change?
[13:36] <wgrant> OTher than the obvious top of the content pane being gone.
[13:38] <Hobbsee> wgrant: it was probably deemed as "evil", like a predictable menu.
[13:38] <wgrant> At least it's in a predictable location.
[13:38] <Hobbsee> It was bad for a couple of reasons but
[13:38] <Hobbsee> mostly because it took links away from the data they affected. We've
[13:38] <Hobbsee> now moved those links closer to the actual information they deal with.
[13:39] <Hobbsee> ie, it could only sit right next to the private/public button, and could not be bigger than that, due to the new design rules.
[13:39] <mpt> wgrant, mostly making it less ugly.
[13:39] <mpt> Hobbsee, none of that is relevant to what we're discussing at the moment
[13:39] <ScottK> mpt: I'm still not getting used to it.
[13:40] <wgrant> mpt: But making potentially sensitive information less obviously private doesn't seem to be a good side-effect.
[13:40] <Hobbsee> mpt: oh, so there was a different answer to wgrant's question about the rationale.
[13:40] <Hobbsee> s/./?/
[13:40] <mpt> wgrant, the answer to your previous question is no, because I haven't written a blog post in nearly a year, and I haven't written any about Launchpad.
[13:41] <mpt> whoops
[13:41] <wgrant> Huh?
[13:41] <wgrant> Right.
[13:41] <mpt> sorry wgrant
[13:41] <mpt> ScottK, ^^
[13:41] <wgrant> That makes more sense.
[13:42] <ScottK> mpt: Yes, but you're quoted in one: http://news.launchpad.net/cool-new-stuff/launchpads-new-look
[13:43] <ScottK> So I guess describing it as your post wasn't right, but that's how I take that quote.
[13:43] <ScottK> Sorry for the confusion.
[13:45] <mpt> ScottK, I'm sorry bug 248734 wasn't fixed yesterday. I know the fix has been written, and hopefully it'll appear on launchpad.net next week.
[13:47] <Hobbsee> good thing we don't have any outstanding MOTU apps, then.
[13:47] <persia> We've two outstanding apps that tend to cause people to look at that page, although both are well known, so it's less of a blocker.
[13:47] <ScottK> mpt: It's a detail. IMO it's sympomatic of a larger problem of U/I headed in the wrong direction.  Personally, while I appreciate the effort to make the current approach less bad, it doesn't address the fundamental problem.
[13:47] <persia> Also, related to 248734, does the fix include restoring the list to be complete?
[13:48]  * wgrant points out that that page is useless now.
[13:48]  * wgrant is beaten by persia.
[13:48] <mpt> ScottK, I encourage you to report specific issues, e.g. "I use X page Y times a day but it takes Z clicks to get to and that's too many".
[13:48] <persia> wgrant: It's not useless, just of significantly reduced utility (similar to the LP changelogs).
[13:48]  * Hobbsee wonders about the requirement for "please subscribe me to this bug.  YES, I'M SURE.  PLEASE SUBSCRIBE ME TO THIS BUG"
[13:48] <wgrant> Bug #249772
[13:49] <persia> Ah.  Yes.  That's it.
[13:49]  * persia comments as someone whose workflow was completely broken by that change
[13:49] <ScottK> mpt: And I am.  I just find it fairly pointless.  It's like pointing out that the new color scheme on the Titanic could be better.
[13:49] <Hobbsee> persia: clearly your previous workflow was Evil, Bad and Wrong, and needed changing anyway.
[13:50] <ScottK> Hobbsee beat me to the punch.
[13:50] <mpt> persia, perhaps you could confirm the bug then? I can't, as I don't know that area well enough to provide examples.
[13:50] <Hobbsee> persia: launchpad is doing you a favour in telling you this, and making you reform.
[13:50] <wgrant> That bug doesn't mention the list being incomplete - I forget if there's another bug on that.
[13:50] <Hobbsee> mpt: why, though?
[13:50] <wgrant> s/incomplete/truncated/
[13:51] <mpt> Hobbsee, because I neither do packaging nor get paid to watch people who do.
[13:51] <Hobbsee> mpt: why, systematically, do changes keep being made, yet you guys are often very honest in saying that you don't know enough about the particular areas.  Is it true then, that launchpad collectively is changing areas that it's not using, without consulting people who *do* use it first?
[13:52] <Hobbsee> er, the particular areas that the changes are being made in.
[13:53] <persia> https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/249772/comments/1
[13:53] <persia> Hobbsee: We didn't really need review of specific uploads for potential developers anyway.  It's all good.
[13:53] <Hobbsee> persia: i meant it as a more general issue.
[13:54] <mpt> Hobbsee, no, the problem with lack of knowledge is specific to me, because I work on overall deisgn, while the other developers work on areas they know a lot about. But I didn't design or approve the change that caused 249772.
[13:54] <mpt> overall design, rather
[13:54] <persia> Hobbsee: Yes.  True.  This is why I no longer spend 10 hours a day using LP.
[13:55] <Hobbsee> persia: as in, because it's becomming more and more unusable?
[13:55] <alsuren> hrrrm... when I try to log in konqueror, it just returns me to the last page I was at, without logging me in
[13:55] <Hobbsee> alsuren: are you a launchpad beta tester?
[13:55] <Hobbsee> well, more and more unusable for ubuntu developers, who are not upstream project makers.
[13:56] <Hobbsee> mpt: were you planning to answer:
[13:56] <Hobbsee> [22:35] <wgrant> What was the rationale for the privacy gradientish-thing change?[22:36] <wgrant> OTher than the obvious top of the content pane being gone.
[13:56] <persia> Hobbsee: Well, it's a mix.  There are new features which might be usable.  Some of the new UI things are better (although relearning is frustrating).  It's that the information presented is becoming less useful that makes me not do it as much.
[13:56] <Hobbsee> mpt: that's an overall design thing, no?
[13:57] <persia> Some of that is not about LP, but about how people use LP (although this is influenced by discoverability of features).
[13:57] <alsuren> Hobbsee: not as far as I'm aware, though I see the horrible grey colourscheme, rather than the nice green one of old
[13:57] <Hobbsee> alsuren: ah.  then that's a bug.
[13:58] <Hobbsee> alsuren: and the horrible grey colourscheme is by design.  it's a feature.  Hopefully you'll grow to like it.
[13:58] <wgrant> alsuren: Make sure you have cookies enabled...
[13:58] <mpt> Hobbsee, I already did
[13:58] <Hobbsee> mpt: where?
[13:58] <wgrant> 'making it less ugly' or similar.
[13:58] <Hobbsee> ah, making it less ugly
[14:00] <ScottK> Becaues beauty is more important than working right.
[14:00] <wgrant> Isn't the point of it to be ugly and obvious?!
[14:00] <Hobbsee> wgrant: obvious, yes.  ugly, no.
[14:01] <persia> Less ugly is nice.  More accessible is nice.  More obvious is nice.  Removing information is not nice.
[14:01] <mpt> ScottK, do you have any examples of bug privacy not working right?
[14:01] <alsuren> wgrant: seems that konq turned cookies off of its own accord. Thanks
[14:01] <wgrant> mpt: I can't now see at a glance that I shouldn't disclose this bug's contents.
[14:02] <Hobbsee> mpt: try any private bug on launchpad.
[14:02] <ScottK> mpt: I'm following up on wgrant's comment that it's less clear a bug is private and your response that it's prettier this way.  Sounds like form over function.
[14:02] <alsuren> wgrant: that's interesting though: google still has me logged in. I wonder how they're doing that
[14:02] <ScottK> Which seems to me to be a consistent aspect of the evolution of Launchpad's design.
[14:02] <persia> mpt: I've a use case that makes bug privacy awkward: If someone files a bug against Ubuntu, Ubuntu Bugs is implicitly subscribed.  If that person included e.g. credit card details, and wanted to use privacy to block access while filing a new bug, they are limited by the inability to unsubscribe Ubuntu Bugs.
[14:03] <wgrant> alsuren: By you allowing Konqueror to save cookies for Google, probably.
[14:03] <Hobbsee> ScottK: in a month, launcphad should become fairly usable.
[14:03] <Hobbsee> ScottK: there should be api's for 2.0
[14:03] <wgrant> persia: Ubuntu Bugs is an implicit subscriber. They're not subscribed to private bugs by default...
[14:03] <Hobbsee> hopefully they'll work
[14:03] <wgrant> Hobbsee: RSN
[14:03] <mpt> ScottK, until two minutes ago I hadn't seen anyone say that it was less obvious. I'm sorry if my comment seemed like a "response" to that. It was not.
[14:04] <ScottK> I see.
[14:04] <mpt> soren, if it's not obvious, that's a bug we can fix.
[14:04] <persia> wgrant: Except that if one opens a bug and later makes it private, the subscription is still there.
[14:04] <mpt> arg, *so* if it's not obvious
[14:04]  * mpt is having a bad day
[14:04] <wgrant> It has been reduced from taking up the entire width of the page to being lighter and taking up a tiny area in the middle of the page. That is less obvious.
[14:04] <persia> mpt: Does a bug need to be filed for every LP change that makes it harder to use LP?
[14:04] <Hobbsee> mpt: i wonder at that, as presumably you'd be one of the people who'd be using launchpad the most, as you work on it.  And presumably you'd have plenty of private bugs.
[14:05] <wgrant> persia: I'd advise against it - somebody will make the bug filing interface incomprehensible then.
[14:05] <Hobbsee> wgrant: out of principle?  heh :)
[14:05] <persia> wgrant: That seems to be the consensus.  I'm just unsure about the "before two minutes ago..." bit.
[14:05] <mpt> persia, that would help, yes.
[14:06] <ScottK> So far I've only seen one person show up and say "I like the new interface better".  I wonder how much user feedback it takes for anyone to care?
[14:06]  * persia looks at 4-digit LP usability bugs (pre Bugzilla import) and boggles
[14:06] <Hobbsee> persia: what you really want to ask is if there'd be any commitment to fix these bugs, in a given timeframe - say, 3 months, as they'd all class as regressions.
[14:06] <mpt> Hobbsee, yes, but I implemented the new privacy appearance to begin with, so it's not easy for me to tell how obvious it is to other people.
[14:06] <wgrant> mpt: Why does the Milestone column lack a normal clicky arrow?
[14:06] <persia> Hobbsee: No.  What I really want is someone else to do that :p
[14:07] <wgrant> (unless it is because I don't have permissions, which makes sense, but the same should go for Importance)
[14:07] <Hobbsee> persia: you can file bugs till the cows come home - even regression bugs, but as you've just said, there's no guarentee they'll get fixed, possibly ever.
[14:07] <Hobbsee> wgrant: you should have permissions, and i don't get that either
[14:07] <Hobbsee> (and i've definetly got permissions)
[14:07] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Not over Launchpad bugs I don't.
[14:07] <Hobbsee> oh right.  i thought it was global, including ubuntu
[14:08] <wgrant> Maybe it is.
[14:08] <persia> Hobbsee: That was a bug
[14:08] <wgrant> I don't over bother to check the Ubuntu milestone, though.
[14:08] <wgrant> *often
[14:08] <mpt> wgrant, that's a bug
[14:08] <wgrant> How do I do that?
[14:08] <Hobbsee> persia: what was?
[14:08] <wgrant> mpt: Which one?
[14:08] <Hobbsee> persia: that there are too many open bugs?
[14:08] <mpt> wgrant, the milestone column missing a clicky thing
[14:08] <persia> Hobbsee: permissions being global rather than project specific.  Fixed in 2006 if I remember correctly.
[14:09] <Hobbsee> persia: oh.  tha'ts not what i meant.
[14:09] <wgrant> mpt: Aha.
[14:09] <bigon> hi, I get some build error on amd64 buildd,  could someone have a look? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15970325/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-amd64.empathy_0.23.3-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[14:09] <Hobbsee> persia: i meant that the milestone thing shows up on all the pages, not just the launchpad project - it shows up in ubuntu too, where i have permissions, but there's no arrow
[14:09] <wgrant> So we should have a total of 5 clicky things to open the same thing?
[14:10] <wgrant> (not including the actual attribute values)
[14:10] <mpt> That's a bug too
[14:10] <wgrant> Looks like a scrollkeeper bug, bigon.
[14:10] <wgrant> Although an EPERM when it's running as root is odd.
[14:11] <wgrant> Oh, it's not.
[14:11] <Hobbsee> bigon: do you need to use scrollkeeper at all, or can you use what it's been replaced with?
[14:11] <wgrant> Probably a scrollkeeper bug.
[14:13] <bigon> I will try to build it without scrollkeeper build-dep
[14:41] <mtaylor> if I'm running a bzr that has stacked branches, can I used that with launchpad yet ... or do I need to wait for launchpad to specifically support stacking?
[14:45] <beuno> mtaylor, you need to wait for LP to support stacking
[14:45] <beuno> which should be any day now
[14:45] <mtaylor> beuno: sweet
[14:46] <beuno> yes, I can imagine stacking MySQL is going to be a big win  :)
[14:46] <mtaylor> yeah.
[14:46]  * mtaylor can't wait
[15:08] <newz2000> will I be happy or frustrated if I try to use rosetta to translate large portions of a web page? (for example, 5 paragraphs with 2 headings)
[15:10] <newz2000> someone told me a while back it's challenging translating long strings using launchpad... I'm curious if this statement is true today
[15:33] <_MMA_> Thanx for the help with the Studio issue herb.
[15:37] <ScottK> Would some Launchpad person who understand the Launchpad foo involved please answer the upstream comment in Bug 206958
[15:37] <ScottK> His project is on LP and he wants to get the Ubuntu bugs.
[15:42] <aa_> hi, can I request deletion of a project?
[15:47] <matsubara> ScottK: he can subscribe to all bug mail for that specific ubuntu package <https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mnemosyne/+subscribe> or someone could use the "Also affects" link and add a mnemosyne upstream bugtask to the given ubuntu bugtask
[15:48] <ScottK> matsubara: Would you please comment in the bug.  Providing Launchpad training is well beyond the scope of my volunteer efforts.
[15:48] <matsubara> ScottK: sure, thanks for bring that up
[16:29] <aa_> sorry is deleting projects a FAQ?
[16:30] <beuno> aa_, you should file a questions requesting deletions, yes
[16:35] <aa_> buquestions to which project?
[16:36] <aa_> going to try /launchpad
[16:36] <beuno> aa_, https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[16:38] <aa_> beuno: ok, done, thanks for the help
[16:39] <beuno> aa_, np
[17:09] <NCommander> Can someone explain to me what it takes for a package to show up under maintained packages?
[17:17] <ScottK> NCommander: That you be Maintainer in debian/control, so nothing in Ubuntu unless you set maintainer to yourself.
[17:17] <ScottK> Which is unusual, but allowed if you have an ubuntu.com address.
[18:21]  * ScottK wishes for a "Don't send me bugmail related to unsupported releases" option (e.g. no more bugmail on Edgy tasks).
[18:28] <andrew_sayers> I'm developing an app using LP, and I want users to send in something more like reviews than bug reports - "X was good, Y annoyed me, Z broke completely" - is there any precedent for that, or anything LP provides that's more appropriate than bug reports?
[18:37] <mrevell> andrew_sayers: Hmm, well, you could set up a team with a mailing list. Alternatively, you could the Answers system, perhaps.
[18:38] <andrew_sayers> mrevell: Does LP have a mailing list function, or do you mean rolling my own?
[18:39] <mrevell> andrew_sayers: LP has mailing lists functionality. Take a look at https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[18:40] <andrew_sayers> mrevell: Ah, excellent.  I hadn't found that, I'll give it a go.
[18:40] <mrevell> andrew_sayers: Let me know if you need further help.
[18:48] <andrew_sayers> mrevell: it says that you can only post from registered LP addresses - you don't have to sign your ML messages, do you?
[18:58] <mrevell> andrew_sayers: Sign as in GPG? No.
[18:59] <andrew_sayers> mrevell: Ah, okay.  I might cheat and set up a web form somewhere that cheats and posts in my name :)
[18:59] <andrew_sayers> Hmm, too much cheating there...
[19:00] <matsubara> andrew_sayers: I think you need to use one of the emails registered under your launchpad account
[19:00] <mrevell> andrew_sayers: Answers is another option, if you want people to give feedback, but I'd say a mailing list is probably most appropriate
[19:01] <andrew_sayers> matsubara: Yeah, I use throwaway accounts anyway, so I could register an address used by that form.
[19:02] <andrew_sayers> FWIW, I'm quite concerned about reducing barriers to information flow - especially for a small project that's mostly about UI details, it's really easy for annoyances not to get reported.
[19:03] <andrew_sayers> Because people say "it's not really a bug", or "I'm just being stupid" or "it's not worth signing in to say that", etc.
[19:07] <henninge> Hi all! I played around on staging to get a better hang of the lp workflow but I run into limitations doing that.
[19:08] <mrevell> Hi henninge. Yeah, staging's a useful sandbox but, as you've probably seen, the staging database is reset each night.
[19:09] <henninge> That's not my problem.
[19:09] <henninge> I'd need a second dummy user acount to do things like answering awnsers and reporting bugs.
[19:10] <henninge> but i cannot create a new user on staging because it doesn't send emails...
[19:10] <henninge> should i set one up on the live database and use that on staging?
[19:11] <henninge> another thing, i wanted to try out translations but i cannot upload a pot because i needs to be approved first
[19:11] <henninge> Is there a way around this?
[19:12] <mrevell> henninge: In terms of a dummy account - is there another way you could try Launchpad out? For example, answering some real questions in Launchpad? I presume you've thought about that. Yes, you could create a dummy account on production LP and wait overnight for it to become available on staging. As soon as you're done with it, you could merge the dummy account back into your main account.
[19:13] <henninge> mrevell, I have been answering questions
[19:13] <henninge> I actually once asked a question i knew the answer of just to see how it runs
[19:14] <henninge> could have done that on staging, now that i think of it
[19:16] <henninge> my greater problem was the translations bit actually. Autoaprove on staging would be great
[19:17] <mrevell> hey jtv, do we accept translations uploads to staging?
[19:18] <jtv> mrevell: I don't think the scripts that approve & process them run there.
[19:18] <jtv> mrevell: so we "accept" them, but they're never actually processed.  I think.
[19:18] <henninge> jtv, that would explain that
[19:18] <mrevell> ah, okay.
[19:18] <mrevell> thanks jtv
[19:22] <henninge> mrevel, jtv, thanks for your time. gotta go. i'll play around a bit more
[19:22] <henninge> mrevell, that is
[19:22] <Brucevdk> Question, can I select a "Affected project" even when nothing has been reported upstream. I want to do so to indicate that the bug belongs to that package/application.
[19:22] <Brucevdk> Insert question mark somewhere in that sentence ^^^
[19:22] <jtv> henninge: "mrevel"...  I like it.  :-)
[19:22] <mrevell> henninge: Great, let me know how you get on.
[19:23] <henninge> mrevell, i will
[19:24] <Brucevdk> The closest option is "I just want to register that it is upstream right now", but that still implies it's known upstream
[19:24] <mrevell> Brucevdk: Are you able to report it upstream and then link to from Launchpad?
[19:24] <Brucevdk> mrevell: sure, but that's more work ;) I'd rather just try and write a patch up this weekend and report it with the patch included.
[19:26] <mrevell> intellectronica: Brucevdk wants to mark that a bug is in an upstream project but there's not yet an upstream bug report. Is the best thing to choose "I just want to register that it is upstream right now"?
[19:26] <Brucevdk> It's just that right now it says it "affects Ubuntu", that's too generic since it specifically relates to Tracker.
[19:26] <intellectronica> mrevell: indeed
[19:26] <mrevell> thanks in
[19:26] <mrevell> thanks intellectronica
[19:27] <persia> Brucevdk: You could indicate that it affects the tracker package in Ubuntu.
[19:27] <Brucevdk> mrevell: that's a go signal right?
[19:28] <mrevell> Brucevdk: Yeah :)
[19:28] <Brucevdk> \o/
[19:29] <Brucevdk> mrevell:  can I link to the upstream bug report later?
[19:29] <Brucevdk> mrevell: is it the "Remote Watch" URL?
[19:42] <beuno> mpt, the links to codebrowse have disapeared from a branch's page?
[19:43] <mpt> beuno, I don't know, I haven't seen it recently
[19:43] <mpt> Can you give an example URL?
[19:43] <beuno> mpt, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~loggerhead-team/loggerhead/trunk
[19:43] <beuno> it disapeared in the last day or two
[19:43]  * beuno grumbles
[19:44] <beuno> it's a small link on the bottom called  "older revisions"
[19:44] <beuno> :(
[19:44] <mpt> I see the "Older revisions" link on that page
[19:44] <beuno> yes, that's what it is now
[19:44] <mpt> What were you expecting?
[19:45] <beuno> it used to be "browse code" and "browse revisions"
[19:45] <beuno> on the actions portlet, which, I can see has gone
[19:45] <beuno> but it's practically invisible now
[19:46] <mpt> hm
[19:46] <mpt> This might be an example of people blocking out anything that looks like navigation
[19:46] <beuno> and, well, called something else, which does something you don't expect
[19:46] <beuno> because "older revisions" takes you to something *completely* different
[19:46] <beuno> and, doesn't show you older revisions
[19:47] <beuno> it's a whole different app
[19:47] <mpt> "Source code" shows me the source code
[19:47] <beuno> ah, "source code"
[19:47] <beuno> right
[19:47] <mpt> and "Older revisions" shows me the older revisions
[19:47] <mpt> I understand that it's a problem that those lists look nothing like the rest of Launchpad
[19:47] <mpt> those pages, I mean
[19:48] <beuno> and, it doesn't show you "older revisions", it shows you *all* revisions, ordered by date
[19:48] <mpt> ahasenack, good point
[19:48] <mpt> *ah*, good point
[19:48] <mpt> (Why do I keep doing that??)
[19:48] <pep> :)
[19:49] <beuno> mpt, tab key stuck today?
[19:49] <mpt> I think I've just gotten used to pressing the Tab key after typing the first word in an IRC utterance
[19:49] <beuno> people will expect to see the revisions in the same format, just older. Not leave launchpad all together
[19:50] <beuno> anyway, enough complaining. I'll file a bug  :)
[19:51] <beuno> for some reason, I did block out the navigation links
[19:52] <beuno> I wonder if making the new LH theme different than LP was a mistake
[19:53] <beuno> because if it looked the same, we could link the previous revisions, and people would see more or less what they'd expect
[19:56] <mpt> beuno, I just reported bug 251592
[19:56] <beuno> mpt, cool, thanks  :)
[19:57] <mpt> beuno, the new theme fixes bug 144744
[19:57] <mpt> beuno, making it match Launchpad is a separate, more advanced, problem
[19:58] <beuno> mpt, agreed. Although I just worked on the theme for a couple of months, could just as well put that into making it look like LP. Anyway, it's done now
[19:59] <mpt> beuno, but then it would drift out of date, like the old help.launchpad.net did
[19:59] <mpt> Until it can track Launchpad exactly, better for it to look smart but different I think
[20:00] <ScottK> Another win for the new U/I.
[20:00] <mpt> ScottK, this has nothing to do with "the new U/I"
[20:00] <beuno> mpt, yeah, probably worth integrating it directly into LP somehow instead
[20:00] <mpt> beuno, right
[20:01] <mpt> I thought I'd reported a bug about doing that, but haven't found it in the past 10 mins
[20:01] <ScottK> I guess I was confused by the reference to the actions portlet going missing.
[20:01] <ScottK> That certainly sounded like a reference to the 'improved' design.
[20:01] <beuno> ScottK, no, it's a new theme for Loggerhead  (codebrowse)
[20:01] <beuno> which should land soon
[20:01] <beuno> looks nothing like Launchpad
[20:01] <ScottK> I see.
[20:02] <beuno> but a better "nothing like Launchpad" than now  :)
[20:03] <beuno> the missing action portlets threw me off
[20:04] <beuno> but I suppose it's just a matter of adapting my brain to look in different places
[20:04] <beuno> some changes seemed more natural than others
[21:02] <mario_limonciell> cprov, i saw that a fix was committed to bug 250618, does that mean i should try the upload again?
[21:16] <helix84> hello. this is my first try at bzr repository at launchpad. i just created it and i'm trying to push for the first time:
[21:16] <helix84> $ bzr push lp:~helix84/+junk/gridpaper
[21:16] <helix84> http://code.launchpad.net/%7Ehelix84/%2Bjunk/gridpaper/ is redirected to https://code.launchpad.net/~helix84/+junk/gridpaper/
[21:16] <helix84> bzr: ERROR: At lp:~helix84/+junk/gridpaper you have a valid .bzr control directory, but not a branch or repository. This is an unsupported configuration. Please move the target directory out of the way and try again.
[21:18] <helix84> i found this but i don't understand much of it as i'm new to bzr: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/53340
[21:21] <thumper> helix84: hmm
[21:22] <thumper> helix84: there are a couple of ways you can do this
[21:22] <thumper> helix84: but the easiest is to delete the branch as it appears in Launchpad
[21:22] <thumper> helix84: then try pushing again
[21:22] <thumper> helix84: sorry
[21:22] <thumper> helix84: I misread
[21:22] <thumper> helix84: do a `bzr launchpad-login helix`
[21:22] <helix84> $ bzr launchpad-login helix84
[21:22] <helix84> bzr: ERROR: unknown command "launchpad-login"
[21:22] <helix84> $ bzr version
[21:22] <helix84> Bazaar (bzr) 0.90.0
[21:23] <mpt> mario_limonciell, I think the fix won't be on launchpad.net until next week
[21:23] <thumper> helix84: ah, you need a newer bzr
[21:23] <thumper> helix84: which platform are you on?
[21:24] <helix84> 7.10
[21:25] <helix84> note that i also tried this (i don't know if that's the right way):
[21:25] <helix84> $ bzr push bzr+ssh://helix84@bazaar.launchpad.net/~helix84/+junk/gridpaper
[21:25] <helix84> bzr: ERROR: Target directory bzr+ssh://helix84@bazaar.launchpad.net/~helix84/+junk/gridpaper already exists, but does not have a valid .bzr directory. Supply --use-existing-dir to push there anyway.
[21:25] <thumper> helix84: deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/bzr/ubuntu edgy main
[21:25] <helix84> thumper: is the "edgy" part right for me?
[21:26]  * thumper thinks
[21:26] <thumper> what was 7.10 again?
[21:26] <thumper> feisty?
[21:26] <helix84> feisty
[21:26] <ScottK> 7.10 was Gutsy
[21:26] <thumper> right, change edgy to feisty
[21:26] <thumper> damnit
[21:26]  * thumper never remembers
[21:26] <ScottK> 7.04 is Feisty
[21:26] <thumper> helix84: use gutsy
[21:27] <thumper> helix84: and delete the branch as it appears in LP, then to a `bzr launchpad-login helix84`, then push to the lp url should work
[21:27] <helix84> i'll use hardy but that's a production machine, so i don't mess with it too much
[21:27] <helix84> thekorn: will try
[21:28] <helix84> sorry, thumper: will try
[21:28] <helix84> i didn't realize i was on an old machine
[21:29] <thumper> helix84: do you have rights to install packages?
[21:30]  * thumper has to run kids to school, bbs
[21:31] <helix84> upgraded, deleted and recreated the branch on launchpad,
[21:31] <helix84> $ bzr launchpad-login helix84
[21:31] <helix84> $ bzr push lp:~helix84/+junk/gridpaper
[21:31] <helix84> bzr: ERROR: Target directory lp:~helix84/+junk/gridpaper already exists, but does not have a valid .bzr directory. Supply --use-existing-dir to push there anyway.
[21:32] <rockstar> helix84, supply --use-existing-dir
[21:34] <mario_limonciell> mpt, so when it's "fix committed", it's not actually available on edge immediately then?
[21:34] <helix84> $ bzr push --use-existing-dir lp:~helix84/+junk/gridpaper
[21:34] <helix84> Created new branch.
[21:37] <rockstar> helix84, congrats, you successfully pushed to launchpad
[21:38] <helix84> thanks for help, i just verified it. is there something like websvn on launchpad?
[21:38] <helix84> so i can browse the branch on web
[21:39] <rockstar> helix84, not for junk branches
[21:39] <rockstar> Er, I take that back.
[21:39] <helix84> should i create a project?
[21:39] <rockstar> The branch needs to be scanned for revisionsn first.
[21:40] <helix84> ah ok. i guess that's a cron task.
[21:40] <rockstar> s/revisionsn/revisions
[21:54] <helix84> thanks again and bye
[22:01] <dash> loggerhead having a problem currently?
[22:01] <mwhudson> grr
[22:02] <mwhudson> dash: it's working for me
[22:02] <mwhudson> a bit slow, but there
[22:24] <eday> hello. has anyone reported issues of people not getting list emails after subscribing to a list? i've been one a list for a couple days and i've not received one yet (i see new messages in archive on webpage though)
[22:34] <mwhudson> eday: i haven't seen any reports like that
[22:36] <dash> huh, still busted
[22:36] <dash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr/trunk/annotate/3577?file_id=errors.py-20050309040759-20512168c4e14fbd
[22:36] <dash> anybody else seeing a problem on that url?
[22:38]  * mwhudson tries it
[22:38] <mwhudson> dash: is it just timing out for you?
[22:38] <mwhudson> hm
[22:39] <dash> yeah, "Pleas try again"
[22:39] <dash> e
[22:39] <mwhudson> oh screw it
[22:39]  * mwhudson bounces the process
[22:39] <mwhudson> dash: works now
[22:44] <eday> mw: theres a number of people on the project list im on who have the same problem. others are getting the emails though
[22:47] <mwhudson> eday: i'm not the man to help you sorry
[22:47] <mwhudson> eday: answers.launchpad.net/launchpad or a bug report i guess
[22:55] <eday> 4
[23:07] <dash> mwhudson: many thanks. :)
[23:07] <mwhudson> i need to stop it doing that
[23:35] <bdmurray> Is Ubuntu lowercase in "Report another bug about xyz in ubuntu" on bug pages on purpose?