[00:44] <cyberix> I just created a new version of a package and posted it to Launchpad. How do I get it in? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/malbolge/+bug/251311
[01:15] <poolie> hell cyberix
[01:15] <poolie> hello*
[01:16] <poolie> cyberix: in to ubuntu or into a ppa on launchpad?
[01:19] <NCommander> o_O;
[01:25] <poolie> anyhow, google 'ubuntu motu guide' or 'launchpad ppa quickstart' as appropriate
[01:26] <beuno> cyberix, https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
[01:26] <beuno> https://help.launchpad.net/  contains all kinds of great help  :)
[01:51] <k0p> cody-somerville, are you there?
[02:24] <NCommander> cody-somerville, ping?
[02:30] <NCommander> hey LucidFox
[02:39] <NCommander> anyone around who can check my copyright file?
[02:42] <NCommander> Riddell, ping?
[03:00] <persia> NCommander: What is wrong with the copyright file?
[03:49] <cody-somerville> Oh lovely.
[03:49] <cody-somerville> Xubuntu is shipping half of gnome atm. :/
[03:52] <effie_jayx> cody-somerville,  heh, anything that can be done? it is not only a xubuntu thing is it?
[03:53] <cody-somerville> totem-gstreamer recommends gnome-control-center
[03:53] <effie_jayx> I have used the xfce desktop on other distros and it is not getting any different
[03:54] <cody-somerville> effie_jayx, what are you talking about?
[03:54] <effie_jayx> cody-somerville,  right... nevermind
[04:57] <NCommander> persia, I had to amend it to include the LGPL, I just wanted to make sure I did it right
[05:01] <persia> NCommander: URL?
[05:01] <NCommander> Hold on
[05:01] <NCommander> I just walked in the door ;-)
[05:02] <NCommander> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/29845/
[05:04] <persia> NCommander: Firstly, you will need to specify the specific files covered by LGPL.  Secondly, you'll need to include the LGPL preamble paragraph.  Thirdly, you ought specify a version for the package licensing (assuming you can agree on a version with Yiannis)
[05:05] <NCommander> persia, I'm simply going to go with the upstream GPL3 license
[05:05] <persia> NCommander: As you're not the sole copyright holder, you'll want to coordinate.
[05:05] <NCommander> I've seen the the "Additionally, most, but not all files" in other copyright files
[05:06] <persia> Just because someone else cuts off their legs doesn't mean it's a good idea :)
[05:06] <persia> Does anyone understand the reason for both https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdevel-symdump-perl/2.03-3/+build/427711 and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdevel-symdump-perl/2.03-3/+build/58612 ?
[05:07] <NCommander> persia, it rebuilt on warty O_o?
[05:07] <NCommander> WTF
[05:08] <persia> Well, the other way around.  Warty and then Hardy.  That doesn't make me understand though.
[05:09] <NCommander> (I'll look at it in a tick, but is there a way to make grep only print filenames, and not actual string it found)
[05:09] <NCommander> oh -l
[05:11] <NCommander> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/29846/ - hows that look
[05:13] <persia> uglier but more accurate
[05:15] <NCommander> This is the copyright file, ugly is king here ;-)
[05:15] <NCommander> persia, can you upload? (the package was rejected due to the old copyright file, and the archive admin also wanted uniform entries in the control file, which I added)
[05:17] <persia> I can upload in the sense that dput works, but am currently having a shortage of processor capacity for test/review.
[05:18] <NCommander> I can't shove it on a PPA due to the rather anonying fact I already uploaded a package of the same revision
[05:19] <NCommander> (that's got to be one of the more nutty restrictions on PPAs)
[05:19] <persia> This is a new upstream version?  New package?
[05:19] <gnomefreak> is ther ea reason why updates just now(i got them just now) installed nvidia drivers that i dont need?
[05:20] <NCommander> persia, new package, which was sponsored and advocated, but rejected because none of us noticed that a few of the files are LGPL; the archive admin caught it and rejected
[05:21] <persia> NCommander: Stuff it back on REVU with a comment about that.  Should be able to go up with only a fingle review.
[05:21] <NCommander> Yeah, I'l rebuilding it now just for good measure
[05:21] <NCommander> (I decided to clarify why I have a lintian override in the package to disable a warning)
[05:22] <persia> which warning?
[05:22] <NCommander> script-not-executable
[05:23] <NCommander> code blocks ships sample files for all of its lexers to allow users to test to make sure they are actually working
[05:23] <persia> And why shouldn't it be executable?
[05:23] <NCommander> Cause the sample script called emerge?
[05:23] <NCommander> Its a non-sense script for testing purposes in /usr/share/codeblocks/lexer/lexer_bash.sample
[05:24] <StevenK> Then it should be an example?
[05:24] <persia> If it's not in $PATH, it oughtn't matter.  If it is in $PATH, not being executable should really be fixed.
[05:24] <NCommander> It's not in the path
[05:24] <NCommander> I put the override though because I was always taught if your going to ignore lintian on something, DOcument Document, Document (and override it)
[05:24] <persia> Yeah, it should probably be in /usr/share/docs/codeblocks/examples and be executable.
[05:25] <coppro> isn't this the one that needs to be there for Codeblocks to work?
[05:25] <persia> NCommander: Better to not ignore lintian unless you know either 1) it's a lintian bug or 2) there's some special reason you need to work around it for which there is no accepted solution (e.g. python modules and Zope)
[05:25] <coppro> because it parses it as a test or something
[05:26] <NCommander> You never should override a lintian test if its a bug in lintian
[05:26] <NCommander> (Debian Policy Manual)
[05:26] <NCommander> http://paste.ubuntu.com/29849/ - please tell me why a sample script that calls emerge should be in samples and marked executable
[05:26] <persia> Because it's a sample script provided by upstream?
[05:26] <NCommander> That upstream themselves don't mark executable when its installed
[05:27] <persia> Looking at the actual script, I probably wouldn't include it in the binary package at all.
[05:27] <coppro> they haven't read Policy then :P
[05:27]  * NCommander gets rather hestiant about removing files from packages without a strong reason ebhind it 
[05:28] <persia> Well, if it's an example, it belongs in .../examples  If it's not an example, and it's not required for package operation, it's cruft.
[05:34] <mcasadevall_> persia, sorry
[05:34] <mcasadevall_> X11 decided it wanted to commit suidice
[05:37] <NCommander> persia, looking at the code, the sample files are actually used it seems
[05:37] <NCommander> I don't know for what
[05:37] <NCommander> But I don't feel conformable moving them
[05:41] <NCommander> persia, here's where and how they're used, given the scenario, its not meant to be an executable script
[05:42] <NCommander> http://wiki.codeblocks.org/index.php?title=Creating_a_custom_lexer_for_Code::Blocks_editor#Sample_Code
[05:58] <persia> NCommander: Ah.  So it's not so much an actual script as an example of one of the supported data formats.  Must it be loaded from a specific directory?  I'm still tempted by .../examples although I've been convinced it needn't be executable.
[05:59] <NCommander> persia, not with actually moving the lexer files themselves; (the lexers are .xml's, which specify the sample, and they don't appear to handle ../)
[05:59] <persia> NCommander: You've convinced me, although I believe there is a bug in there somewhere...
[06:00] <NCommander> The bug was plugins went in /usr/share/codeblocks/plugins
[06:00] <NCommander> THat was a rather evil hack to move it
[06:00] <NCommander> Upstream doesn't appear to have any intention to fix since there were a few other complaints about that on the forums, and no reply from the devs
[06:07] <murlidhar> i am trying to compile bmpanel from source . ./configure shows no dependency problem but sudo make shows a lot of problems and i am not able to install it
[06:09] <murlidhar> using hardy 32bit
[06:10] <murlidhar> please somebody help me since i really like that panel
[06:10] <murlidhar> it suits my openbox window manager
[06:10] <RAOF> murlidhar: Not exactly on topic.  Two things: (a) make shouldn't be run with root priviledes, and (b) complain to upstream :)
[06:11] <murlidhar> RAOF: hi but i really want to use it . and i tried using make too but it didn't help
[06:12] <murlidhar> RAOF: any channel where i could get help from?
[06:12] <RAOF> #ubuntu may be able to help you; that's the correct channel.
[06:12] <RAOF> Or finding the upstream mailing list/channel and asking there.
[06:12] <murlidhar> RAOF: in compiling stuff ?
[06:13] <RAOF> murlidhar: Indeed.
[06:14] <murlidhar> k
[08:32] <Yasumoto> does anyone know what's the command to find the version of a package you're using? I blame my late-niht eyesight for not finding it in the man pages/wiki yet
[08:33] <gpocentek> Yasumoto: dpkg -l <pkg>
[08:40] <Yasumoto> thanks gpocentek
[09:16] <Yasumoto> If someone has some time, would you mind double checking my debdiff at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tftp-hpa/+bug/73233 ? thanks a bunch :)
[09:21] <directhex>        Status: Confirmed => Fix Released
[09:21] <directhex> yay
[09:27] <\sh> emgent: did you test if there is a clean upgrade path from hardy moinmoin to intrepids moinmoin? I was wondering if we can request a backport to hardy
[09:30] <NCommander> The internet here sucks :-/
[09:32] <Hobbsee> proxy ftw.
[09:41] <cyberix> I'm still trying to figure out how I can get my updated malbolge package into Intrepid Universe.
[09:41] <huats> morning everyone
[09:41] <cyberix> I've posted the new package at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/malbolge/+bug/251311
[09:41] <cyberix> huats: morning morning
[09:45] <slytherin> cyberix: why is the status of that bug fix commited?
[09:46] <cyberix> "a developer has committed his/her fix to the project's codebase"
[09:47] <cyberix> That is as close to the codebase that I can get
[09:47] <slytherin> cyberix: The status is for update of the package. It is not for mentioning what upstream is doing. Set status to confirmed and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[09:49] <directhex> malebolge as in the satanic programming language?
[09:50] <cyberix> done
[09:50] <cyberix> directhex: Yep. That on.
[09:50] <cyberix> one
[09:51] <directhex> the one nobody touches with their bare hands, and writes lisp apps to do the actual writing of malbolge?
[09:51] <directhex> and where the docs deliberately don't reflect reality?
[09:51] <RAOF> directhex: That's an awesome quote.  Where's that ubuntu bash.org thingy... :)
[09:52] <directhex> bah, and as if i had to ask, there's an Intercal package in ubuntu too
[09:52] <directhex> and a brainfuck interpreter. but no .NET version. how disappointing
[09:53] <cyberix> directhex: I think the original documentation and intrepreter has a few bugs, but they are probably not on purpose.
[09:54] <cyberix> I also think L. Scheffer writes his stuff directly.
[09:55] <Riddell> NCommander: pong
[09:55] <cyberix> He wrote the application which copies input to output, but that one relies on an input validation bug in the original interpreter.
[09:55] <cyberix> Which my interpreter supports as a command line option.
[09:55] <cyberix> Because I didn't want to break backwards compatibility.
[09:56] <NCommander> Riddell, I updated the copyright file for codeblocks (although I changed it one more time after I sent it to you; now it has the full preamble, and lists all LGPL files)
[09:56] <Riddell> NCommander: ok, going to upload or do you need me to?
[09:56] <cyberix> The lack of .NET only proves you have to do something simeple in order to get it in. ;-
[09:56] <directhex> "Users are encouraged to make their own, unique homebrew versions of Malbolge and Dis, in order to achieve the kind of portability problems normally associated with major languages"
[09:56] <cyberix> ;-)
[09:58] <NCommander> Riddell, I need you to upload, but I'm rebuilding the package, my lintian override isn't quite working (I made it file specific, and obviously I did it wrong >.<)
[09:58] <cyberix> directhex: https://bugs.launchpad.net/msk/+bug/210098
[10:03] <Riddell> NCommander: at the end of the "Additionally, most" paragraph I'd put ", version 3 http://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl-3.0.html"
[10:03] <directhex> bah, i can't get an app compiled with bfc to run with mono
[10:03] <NCommander> Riddell, having the path to /usr/share/common-licenses/LGPL-3 isn't enough?
[10:04] <Riddell> NCommander: well, it's important to be clear about the version these days
[10:04] <Riddell> NCommander: and leave out from "if not" in the next paragraph, FSF addresses go out of date and the fsf URL is a substitute.
[10:06] <NCommander> Riddell, you think its overkill to individually list every file with that is under the LGPL?
[10:06] <NCommander> (I've never seen another package do it)
[10:07] <directhex> use wildcards where appropriate!
[10:08] <NCommander> directhex, can't, since one or two files in the same folder are not LGPL >.<;
[10:08] <Riddell> NCommander: yes, that isn't necessary
[10:10] <NCommander> Riddell, how's this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/29900/
[10:10] <NCommander> er, whoops
[10:10] <NCommander> Hold, typo
[10:10] <NCommander> Riddell, http://paste.ubuntu.com/29901/
[10:11] <slytherin> NCommander: put it loke this, "all files except <exceptions> are under LGPL3" Then next files "following files are under <different_license>"
[10:12] <Riddell> NCommander: at both "either version 3" remove "either"
[10:12] <Riddell> NCommander: otherwise all goo
[10:12] <Riddell> NCommander: otherwise all good
[10:13] <NCommander> expect <expection>
[10:13] <NCommander> You want me to list all 127 files?
[10:13] <Riddell> NCommander: no
[10:16] <NCommander> Riddell, I'm sorry then I'm somewhat confused
[10:17] <huats> TheMuso: hello
[10:17] <Riddell> NCommander: what about?
[10:18] <NCommander> Riddell, All files expect <expections>, I'm not sure what you want there if you don't want each individual file
[10:18] <SniperBeamer> are ddebs for hardy-backports available somewhere?
[10:18] <Riddell> NCommander: I never said anything about "All files expect"
[10:19] <Riddell> NCommander: "either" needs to be removed and that's it
[10:19] <NCommander> Riddell, oh, that I got
[10:19] <NCommander> Riddell, I think what I'm lacking in is a good, hot cup of coffee
[10:19] <Hobbsee> SniperBeamer: why are you asking again?
[10:37] <NCommander> Riddell, thank you for your patience on this matter ;-) (I now have a greater apperiation for the headache being an archive admin is)
[10:37] <NCommander> (although I don't think you use dak, you use the Launchpad souyez thing, right?)
[10:38] <NCommander> woo, finally, it works
[10:41] <Riddell> yes, soyuz
[10:41] <Riddell> but reviewing packages will be the same
[10:41] <NCommander> Riddell, of course
[10:41] <NCommander> Riddell, still, I bet soyuz doesn't have all its commands named after women (although I think newer versions of dak finally changed that)
[10:42] <Riddell> mercifully not :)
[10:43] <NCommander> Riddell, I still remember fighting with britney to make a testing archive. Talk about undocumented :-P
[10:48] <NCommander> Riddell, http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/codeblocks-0807241150/codeblocks_8.02-0ubuntu1.dsc - Updated codeblocks in need of uploading
[10:48] <NCommander> (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=codeblocks)
[10:52] <TheMuso> huats: What can I do for you?
[10:54] <Riddell> NCommander: uploading
[10:54] <huats> TheMuso: hello
[10:54] <TheMuso> huats: Hi.
[10:54] <huats> sorry to bother but I'd like your opinion on one thing :)
[10:54] <TheMuso> huats: Go on.
[10:54] <NCommander> Thank you Riddell, I greatly appreciate your contribution to Ubuntu
[10:54] <huats> (I was looking at the bug number)
[10:55]  * NCommander runs for using that canned line
[10:55] <huats> bug: #201123
[10:55] <huats> you mention on it that you want a clear description of the SRU
[10:55] <TheMuso> huats: What about it?
[10:55] <directhex> NCommander, i greatly appreciate your efforts to help destroy freedom as we know it, by helping with purely evil software like mono!
[10:56] <TheMuso> huats: Did you read my recent comment?
[10:56] <huats> (which I can clearly understand, and that I haven't provided yet since I am not the one who asked for it even if I have done the packaging)
[10:56] <huats> sure I did :)
[10:56]  * NCommander just recently recovered from the real life varient of mono
[10:56] <TheMuso> huats: So whats the problem?
[10:57] <huats> and I have received an email from pedro asking me integrate his last comment ("open the application, click new") in the debdifff...
[10:57] <huats> which is not what you are waiting for I guess...
[10:57] <TheMuso> huats: I don't know what you mean with the comment re Pedro.
[10:58] <huats> so I just want your confirmation that you expect that I put in the changelog (and thus in the debdiff) the reason why the new deps is needed and not the test case to see if it works or breaks (which is what pedro provides)
[10:58] <huats> :)
[10:59] <TheMuso> huats: Yes thats right.
[10:59] <huats> TheMuso: ok :)
[10:59] <huats> that was only that :)
[10:59] <TheMuso> ok
[10:59] <huats> TheMuso: thanks...
[11:00] <TheMuso> np
[11:00] <huats> i'll do my best to provide it today
[11:17] <NCommander> Riddell, thanks for the upload, I see it the NEW queue, now I just need to wait for someone to reject it again ;-) */optimist*
[11:24] <huats> TheMuso: still there ?
[11:25] <TheMuso> huats: Yes.
[11:25] <huats> If so, is it enought for you if I change my changelog to http://paste.ubuntu.com/29916/ (regarding bug: 201123)
[11:25] <huats> norsetto: !!
[11:25] <huats> :)
[11:25] <Riddell> NCommander: accepted
[11:26]  * NCommander dies of shock
[11:26]  * NCommander returns from hell
[11:26] <norsetto> huats: thats not fair :-/
[11:26] <NCommander> Dang it Riddell, your going to kill someone due to shock :-P
[11:26] <TheMuso> huats: From that description, I still don't know what the SRU is supposed to address.
[11:28] <huats> TheMuso: I mean, before mono 1.2.6+dfsg-1, the package libmono-i18n2.0-cil was not a package.. it was included in mono... So after that mono version every package that uses it needs to add a dependency on it
[11:28] <huats> I think I don't understand your question :)
[11:28] <TheMuso> huats: WHy is this package dependency needed? What is broken in the application that this SRU fixes, in terms of usability?
[11:29] <directhex> the i18n packages are Recommends of the corlib packages iirc
[11:29] <huats> without that dependency, you can launch the application without that but once you click "New" the application crashes, if you do not depend on that
[11:30] <TheMuso> huats: Sorry that doesn't make sense.
[11:30] <huats> and the reason is that a part of the mono binary has been split...
[11:30] <huats> to create a new package...
[11:30] <huats> which is libmono-i18n2.0-cil
[11:31] <TheMuso> huats: Ok. I suggest you explain it in terms of application usability.
[11:31] <TheMuso> in the changelog.
[11:31] <huats> Ok
[11:32] <huats> I didn't know we can do that in changelog...
[11:33] <norsetto> huats: changelogs is where are creativity explode :-)
[11:33] <norsetto> make it our even
[11:33] <huats> :)
[11:33] <huats> I will
[11:33] <huats> :)
[11:36] <huats> TheMuso: is it ok for you like this ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/29919/
[11:36] <huats> (just let me know)
[11:37] <TheMuso> huats: THat makes wonerful sense, thanks.
[11:38] <huats> TheMuso: no problem at all :)
[11:39] <huats> I just didn't understood you wanted me to put usability in the Changelog :)
[11:39] <huats> and I now I know :)
[11:40] <TheMuso> huats: Right, thanks.
[11:41] <huats> TheMuso: no pb... I'll put the debdiff on it in the afternoon
[11:41] <TheMuso> huats: No problem.
[11:42] <huats> I can only change the changelog entry without incrementing the package version ? is it allowed (since the same packaeg with the other changelog is in intrepid ?)
[11:42] <klong> can someone remind me of what it is that apps like usplash/splashy read to know what approximate percentage a system is done booting up ? I cant remember for blast
[11:54] <NCommander> Riddell, out of curosity, what does it mean "Pending in intrepid-release"
[11:55] <StevenK> NCommander: It means the source is uploaded, and is waiting for a publisher run, which happens at *:03
[11:56] <NCommander> StevenK, cool. Its kinda exciting, my first NEW ubuntu package
[11:56] <StevenK> Heh
[11:58] <DRebellion> Could somebody take a look at my package in REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=posterazor Thanks in advance ;)
[12:01] <NCommander> DRebellion, I'm not an MOTU, but I'll look it over
[12:01] <DRebellion> NCommander, thanks!
[12:02] <NCommander> DRebellion, any reason the man file is PosteRazor.1 and not posterazor.1
[12:02] <DRebellion> NCommander, PosteRazor is the default name for the binary
[12:02] <NCommander> Ok, that makes sense
[12:03] <NCommander> DRebellion, I think you can loose the dirs file; those are all standard directories
[12:03] <DRebellion> NCommander, ok
[12:05] <NCommander> DRebellion, ok, it looks good
[12:05]  * NCommander leaves a comment for other reviewers
[12:05] <DRebellion> yay
[12:05] <NCommander> It's not a advocation sadly
[12:06] <DRebellion> NCommander, I will remove that dirs file, and test a build, and reupload.
[12:06] <NCommander> DRebellion, cool, once you do that, ping me, and I'll comment on it
[12:07] <DRebellion> NCommander, will do.
[12:08] <NCommander> wooooo, that's awesome, codeblocks is now in the archive
[12:09] <NCommander> StevenK, can I ask you to sponsor for a backport? (it builds fine in hardy as is, I just need to correct the version number and distribution)
[12:10] <StevenK> I thought the backport peoples had a tool for that sort of thing
[12:11] <NCommander> StevenK, I thought it was a manual upload
[12:11] <NCommander> Hrm
[12:13] <NCommander> StevenK, https://edge.launchpad.net/revu - I think there is a bug in Launchpad, cause I've got more points then the entire development team combined ...
[12:16] <StevenK> NCommander: Ask in #launchpad
[12:19] <sistpoty|work> hi folks
[12:20]  * norsetto is not a folk, is a towndweller
[12:21] <NCommander> hola sistpoty|work
[12:21]  * sistpoty|work appends and towndwlellers to hi folks
[12:23]  * norsetto says hi to sistpoty|work and bows humbly as close as possible to the lowly ground
[12:24]  * NCommander steps on norsetto 
[12:37] <k0p> hi all
[12:37] <k0p> someone take a look in my package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=umit I change rules and as far I know my package had problems with python policy. can you check if now its fixed?
[12:40] <DRebellion> NCommander, after removing the dirs file (and dh_installdirs from the install target) I get errors when copying across the files:
[12:40] <DRebellion> cp /tmp/buildd/posterazor-1.5.1/src/PosteRazor /tmp/buildd/posterazor-1.5.1/debian/posterazor/usr/bin/
[12:40] <DRebellion> cp: cannot create regular file `/tmp/buildd/posterazor-1.5.1/debian/posterazor/usr/bin/': No such file or directory
[12:41] <NCommander> O_o;
[12:41] <NCommander> Why is it using /tmp?
[12:41] <NCommander> Er wait, .... *bink* how are you building this?
[12:42] <DRebellion> NCommander, pbuilder
[12:43]  * NCommander takes a second look at your rules file
[12:44] <NCommander> Your not using a make install rule, are you
[12:44] <NCommander> d'oh
[12:44] <NCommander> In that case, you need the dirs file
[12:45] <NCommander> (sorry, I didn't catch that)
[12:45] <NCommander> (I apologize, I'm a little off my game today)
[12:46] <DRebellion> NCommander, no worries. Could I just use mkdir in the rules file?
[12:46] <NCommander> DRebellion, no, the dirs file is meant to create directories that aren't make by make install
[12:46] <DRebellion> okey
[12:46] <NCommander> SInce your not using it, you obviously need to list them ;-)
[12:47] <NCommander> Using mkdir causes dpkg not to know about the directories, so it can't remove the directory if it is completely empty
[12:47] <DRebellion> NCommander, ah right.
[12:49] <DRebellion> NCommander, there's no need to upload again then.
[12:49] <NCommander> yeah
[12:55] <Hobbsee> \sh: so, by your blog post, does that mean that if the discussions go to the CC, you'll quit?
[13:11] <\sh> Hobbsee: I never said that, or? :)
[13:12] <\sh> Hobbsee: what I said is, that I'm happy to discuss all that during a CC meeting..well, it means 3 or more hours for nothing, but why not
[13:12] <Hobbsee> heh.  right.
[13:13]  * Hobbsee just thought you'd learned to stay out of trouble now, or something.
[13:13] <Hobbsee> at least you haven't made more posts about sexy ladies, and ubuntu
[13:13] <emgent> hey \sh
[13:14] <\sh> Hobbsee: if you read the comments, it's only one guy who complained in the first place..I asked him to read the refered article and come back again...but no
[13:14] <\sh> moins emgent
[13:15] <emgent> moin upgrade seems very hard, i talked with  upstream about it (when i sent a fix for the vulnerabilities that i found) and he say to me that it`snt immediatly upgrade, need read the doc for it.
[13:15] <Hobbsee> \sh: btw, i presume you know that posts like yours will tend to get stuff like planet completely obliterated from schools, with their filters.
[13:17] <jmehdi> I've uploaded a new package for Webstrict (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=webstrict) but I don't see it
[13:18] <\sh> Hobbsee: tbh, when I compare the chats on a schoolground (well sadly only here in .de, but I think in any other place on the world it will be similar nowadays) it much more worse then a *ihavetobecarfulwhatIwritenowIdontuseanyabbrevsanymoreletsseehowchildishthatwillbe*
[13:19] <\sh> Hobbsee: when I watch "bad boys" in the cinema or on dvd, in the first 3 mins there are more words like this then i ever wrote the special abbrev on my blog
[13:19] <\sh> Hobbsee: and I don't think anybody will complain to a director of the cinema...
[13:19] <Hobbsee> i'm sure there are.  but that's school filters for you, and there was no guarentee that it makes sense.
[13:19] <laga> and bad boys is rated what?
[13:23] <StevenK> \sh: You can't compare Bad Boys and your blog post.
[13:23] <StevenK> Well, okay, you can. But it's a flawed analogy.
[13:24] <Hobbsee> because one goes and explicitly sees the particular movie, and the other is mixed in with a whole bunch of stuff with various topics?
[13:26] <geser> laga: in which country?
[13:26] <laga> geser: it's R-rated in the US
[13:33] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Exactly.
[13:35] <laga> to be honest, getting worked up over "WTF" is a bit silly IMHO
[13:36] <StevenK> But it isn't just "WTF"
[13:37] <\sh> StevenK: the first complain was about just that
[13:39] <directhex> it was? WTF?
[13:40] <NCommander> WTH is going on?
[13:40]  * NCommander runs for cover
[13:40] <directhex> NCommander, STFU!
[13:41] <StevenK> Stop fscking swearing
[13:41] <StevenK> (I love that one)
[13:41]  * NCommander fsck's this room

[13:42] <\sh> StevenK: one goes not explicitly on planet.ubuntu.com?
[13:44] <\sh> anywys...I'll have to fight with ipvsadm and ldirector..that's more interesting then all this stupid discussion about the topic...CC meeting is in a few days..so there we can discuss all this crap :)
[13:45] <\sh> and there is always the possibility to add a WTF STFU and whatever word we need to hide from planet in future filter to the planet software ... I mean that's the easiest solution and noone needs to worry...
[13:45] <directhex> BBQ
[13:46]  * Hobbsee wonders if it's just \sh who seems to be routinely getting these sorts of discussions about his posts.
[13:46] <Hobbsee> i think i've seen one other post, that got complained about.  the rest, \sh wrote.
[13:46] <Hobbsee> interesting how these things pan out.
[13:47] <\sh> Hobbsee: kokes post was complained too...but only because one commenter on kokes post wrote "STFU"...and this guy didn't get the difference between the article and the comment...
[13:47] <\sh> Hobbsee: see diff of the /Talk page of the cc agenda
[13:53] <Hobbsee> so, tha'ts one to him, one to another guy, and how many posts of yours pointed out, in hte last couple of years?
[13:53] <\sh> 2 ?
[13:54]  * slytherin fetches some popcorns and watches the discussion silently.
[13:57] <Hobbsee> at least 3, offhand.  i suspect there were more :_
[13:57] <\sh> what was the 3rd?
[13:58] <ScottK> Matthew Garrett had a good post on this topic: http://mjg59.livejournal.com/94420.html
[13:58] <norsetto> tbh, looks like the other guy broke the CoC, certainly not \sh
[13:59] <Hobbsee> igasm, sexy lady, and your recent one.  add in the second post of yours which also seems to be complained about, and that's 4.
[13:59] <\sh> Hobbsee: so 2 in the past...and this one..
[13:59] <ScottK> NCommander: Thanks for taking care of the clamav security stuff.  I hope it wasn't too painful.
[13:59] <NCommander> ScottK, oh, no, nothign like rolling the same patch three times :-P
[14:00] <NCommander> (its all in the archive, and taken care of :-))
[14:00] <ScottK> It took me a year to get get Dapper/Feisty/Gutsy/Hardy on a common code base, so jdstrand is right to make sure we don't mess it up.
[14:01] <NCommander> I didn't say it was wrong
[14:01] <NCommander> I completely understand why
[14:01] <ScottK> Yeah, I just hope it wasn't too frustrating for you in the process.
[14:01] <NCommander> Nah, its fine
[14:01] <NCommander> I've uploaded packages to Debian ;-)
[14:02] <\sh> hopefully jono is not showing this video link on planet...oh wow
[14:03] <k0p> someone can review my package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=umit
[14:05] <\sh> Hobbsee: but what makes it out of me now?
[14:15] <norsetto> Linux norsetto 2.6.24-19-generic #1 SMP Fri Jul 11 21:01:46 UTC 2008 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[14:25] <directhex> and a merry uname to you too
[14:29] <ScottK> StevenK: Shortly after I talked to you the other day about sponsoring something my hotel wireless died, so I wanted to follow-up and see it you're still up for it.
[14:29] <DRebellion> Peoples, would somebody mind taking a look at my package in REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=posterazor People have said it is OK, but I haven't been able to get any MOTUs to take a look and advocate it.
[14:29] <StevenK> ScottK: I was distracted. I'll make a note to look at tomorrow.
[14:30] <ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
[14:33] <smarter> hey
[14:33] <smarter> could someone please upload my patch for bug #237830 ?
[14:34] <ScottK> smarter: Did you subscribe UUS?
[14:36] <smarter> ScottK: nop, I'm doing it right now ;)
[14:36] <ScottK> That will get you in line.
[14:41] <huats> Hey ScottK o/
[14:41] <ScottK> Hell huats.
[14:41] <ScottK> Hell/Hello
[14:41] <ScottK> Sorry.
[14:41] <huats> :)
[14:41] <huats> no pb
[14:41] <huats> I know you are like taht
[14:41] <huats> :)
[14:41] <huats> telling hell to anyone :)
[14:41] <huats> ;)
[14:42] <ScottK> Someone has to do it.
[14:43] <huats> I am packaging a something that is not providing a clean rule... So I need to clean "by  hand"... Is a rm -rf  *.so *.o is "allowed" in the clean target of a debian/rules file ?
[14:43] <huats> ScottK: sure :D
[14:45] <persia> huats: You probably want "-rm ...", but yes.
[14:45] <norsetto> huats: your clean rule should bring your package in a clean state, like it was just after unpacking
[14:45] <huats> ok
[14:45] <huats> thanks
[14:45] <huats> :)
[15:07] <norsetto> /me feels pretty sleepy
[15:08] <directhex> /me feels pretty
[15:09]  * sistpoty|work thinks the devil himself invented dynamic memory allocation :P
[15:48] <huats> I have corrected all the first series of note that I have regarding a package in REVU, so if someone (or more that one :)) want to have a look at it : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tktreectrl
[15:55] <norsetto> huats: there are still files left which are not cleaned by the clean rule
[15:56] <huats> norsetto: really ?
[15:56] <norsetto> huats: no, its a joke
[15:56] <huats> but there is no FTBFS
[15:57] <norsetto> huats: of course its really ;-)
[15:57] <huats> anymore
[15:57] <nhandler> huats: You should also add a Homepage field to the control file
[15:57] <norsetto> huats: yes, but there is still garbage left from the build rule
[15:57] <huats> nHandler yeah I just realized that I haven't ...
[15:57] <huats> norsetto: I'll tackle that ...
[15:57] <huats> rrrgggg
[15:57] <huats> :(
[16:04] <huats> nHandler: done in my local package
[16:04] <huats> :)
[16:10] <nhandler> :) hauts
[16:16] <slytherin> persia: This is what I had to say. s Java team automatically subscribed to any bugs?
[16:20] <huats> norsetto: please tell me that now all the files are well cleaned !
[16:20] <huats> :)
[16:20] <huats> (btw I lead 3-2 since this morning :P)
[16:21] <norsetto> huats: thats because you cheat ;-)
[16:21] <huats> no I am not :)
[16:21] <huats> I was talking on the chan when you arrived :)
[16:22] <huats> that do not makes me a cheater
[16:22] <huats> :)
[16:26] <norsetto> huats: not only you cheat, but you cheat your cheating ....
[16:26] <huats> norsetto: :)
[16:31] <persia> slytherin: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-java/+packagebugs says "not so much".
[16:38] <norsetto> huats: do you think we can make the description more informative?
[16:39] <pranith> !help
[16:39] <pranith> anyone here?
[16:40] <huats> norsetto: I think it might be possible... but I took it from the upstream home page
[16:40] <persia> pranith: Please also don't play with the bot here.  Just ask a question.
[16:40] <huats> hello pranith
[16:40] <pranith> huats, hello
[16:40] <pranith> persia, ok
[16:40] <pranith> persia, not playing, trying to get some info
[16:41] <pranith> where do i find projects which i can participate in?
[16:41] <persia> pranith: What do you like to do?
[16:42] <pranith> hmm, programming..
[16:42] <pranith> calc,
[16:42] <pranith> calc, c++
[16:42] <persia> any specific languages, environments, targets?
[16:42] <pranith> c and cpp
[16:42] <huats> norsetto: may be adding something like what is a "treectrl"
[16:42] <pranith> learning python, but am not that confident
[16:42] <pranith> environment?
[16:42] <persia> pranith: Do you prefer new features, or bug fixing?
[16:42] <pranith> persia, wht environments are there?
[16:43] <pranith> persia, ill try out bug fixing for now.. new features require much harder work i guess
[16:43] <persia> pranith: Lots.  Different desktop environments, server targets, SDL stuff, etc.
[16:43] <pranith> persia, i have no particular preference
[16:44] <\sh> strike....ipvs is now a little cat instead of a dangerous tiger to me...
[16:44] <norsetto> huats: that could help, just imagine 1) somebody trying to understand from the description what that package does 2) facilitate searches
[16:44] <persia> For bugfixing: are there any bugs in Ubuntu that you've encountered that you would like to try to fix?
[16:44] <pranith> persia, i've reported a lot of bugs.. but could never get to fixing one :(
[16:44] <huats> norsetto: I'll change the description
[16:44] <persia> pranith: That'd be the first step.  Do you know how to get the source of a package, modify it safely, and test an update?
[16:45] <pranith> persia, :( no.. any pointers??
[16:45] <pranith> persia, is it necessary for me to be using ubuntu to start developing?
[16:45] <persia> pranith: I'd recommend starting with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix first.  For crash bugs, there are some other good pages.
[16:46] <persia> It's not necessary to use Ubuntu, but it's hard to test your fixes without using Ubuntu.
[16:46] <bddebian> Heya gang
[16:46] <pranith> hmm
[16:47] <pranith> persia, i wont be having access to a ubuntu machine for the next 2 weeks at least :(
[16:47] <persia> pranith: Well, there's no reason you can't grab some code and take a look in the meantime, although some of the developer tools to make it easy may not be available.
[16:48] <pranith> hmm
[16:48] <pranith> persia, ok. any suggestions for starters?
[16:48] <persia> pranith: I tend to recommend reviewing and fixing bugs, but that gets hard if you can't test.
[16:49] <pranith> hmm
[16:49] <persia> Other than that, you can read documentation on the wiki, but it takes about a month to read the wiki assuming you can dedicate all your time to it, and you don't really need all of the information there.
[16:49] <pranith> ok
[16:50] <pranith> thnxs persia...
[16:50] <pranith> ill start with the wiki for now
[16:53] <sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
[16:56] <huats> norsetto: do you think it is better : http://paste.ubuntu.com/30004/ ?
[16:57] <bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
[16:58] <norsetto> huats: it sure explains it better :-)
[16:58] <huats> :)
[16:58] <huats> norsetto: ok so I am uploading it :)
[16:59] <norsetto> huats: since you are there, can you clean up your files; there are lots of extra blanks in there?
[17:00]  * Iulian waves
[17:01] <bddebian> Heya Iulian
[17:01] <huats> norsetto: lots ?
[17:01] <huats> norsetto: I found 2-3 lines
[17:01] <huats> no more :)
[17:02] <norsetto> huats: I was thinking about the html file, wouldn't be more appropriate for it to be in the -dev package ?
[17:03] <huats> hum
[17:03] <huats> you are probably right
[17:03] <huats> changing that
[17:05] <AnAnt> Hello, when will swt-gtk be synched, I filed a request (bug 249158) last week, and it's dependencies are ready since few days
[17:06] <norsetto> huats: would it be worth installing the demos as examples ?
[17:06] <huats> norsetto: could be
[17:06] <ScottK> AnAnt: It's a question of when an archive admin gets to processing sync's.  It's not unusual for it to lag a week.
[17:07] <norsetto> AnAnt, ScottK: as well as having a sponsor that ack it, sponsoring queue is pretty full
[17:08] <ScottK> Right.
[17:08] <AnAnt> norsetto: sponsor as in MOTU ?
[17:08] <ScottK> Yes.
[17:08] <AnAnt> well, anyone of the MOTUs ready to sponsor that ?
[17:09] <ScottK> Sorry, my FOSS time is taken up right now trying to write a fix for the new DNS cache poisoning attack for a package I maintain in Debian.
[17:10] <nhandler> AnAnt: Sync requests should also have a status of 'New' until they are acked by a MOTU. Once a MOTU ack's it, they will set the status to 'Confirmed' and subscribe the archive admins
[17:10] <AnAnt> nhandler: it is confirmed, dunno who confirmed it
[17:11] <nhandler> Well, I would set it back to 'New' until it gets ack'ed by a MOTU
[17:11] <AnAnt> nhandler: ah, the requestsync script sets it to confirmed state
[17:11] <AnAnt> nhandler: are you sure of this ?
[17:11] <nhandler> AnAnt: Did you use the -s option with requestsync?
[17:12] <huats> to install examples, isn't there a dh_examples call ?
[17:12] <norsetto> huats: btw, there is a dist-clean rule in upstream makefile :-)
[17:12] <AnAnt> nhandler: nope
[17:12] <norsetto> huats: yes
[17:12]  * sistpoty|work does a victory dance after defeating the devil and his evil dynamic memory allocation *g*
[17:12] <AnAnt> ok, I set it to new
[17:12] <AnAnt> nhandler: thanks
[17:13] <nhandler> AnAnt: You should use the -s option in the future. I believe that will keep the status as 'New'
[17:13] <huats> I cannot find anything related to dh_examples
[17:13] <norsetto> huats: dh_installexamples
[17:13] <huats> norsetto: thanks
[17:15] <huats> norsetto: sure the dist-clean exists
[17:15] <huats> but it removes way more than what we have created in build
[17:15] <huats> ...
[17:16] <norsetto> huats: also clean and distclean, but they are not very effective I gather
[17:16] <huats> :)
[17:19]  * norsetto thinks that acking syncs could well be a task for uuc
[17:20]  * nhandler would gladly ack syncs if he was able to.
[17:20]  * nhandler also thinks uuc's should be part of the bug control team
[17:21] <norsetto> nhandler: mind that after 1780 they have better anti-riot police in London
[17:22] <ScottK> norsetto: I disagree.  Acking a sync effectively puts code in the archive.  It's a developer job.
[17:23] <norsetto> ScottK: sure it is, and uuc are prospective devs after all, one has to assess what is the level of responsibility vs. risk
[17:23] <nhandler> ScottK: But is there any reason not to make UUC's part of the ubuntu-bugcontrol team?
[17:24] <ScottK> nhandler: I tend to not have opinions on bug management.  It just gets me thinking about LP and my blood pressure goes up.
[17:24] <ScottK> norsetto: If we trust them enough to have effectively unsuperised access to the archive, they should just go for MOTU.
[17:24]  * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
[17:25] <norsetto> ScottK: unsupervised? errr, for acking a sync which will have to go for the scrutiny of an archive admin?
[17:25] <ScottK> The archive admin checks are very basic for a sync.  That's why I said effectively.
[17:26]  * \sh 's mind just spins around..
[17:26] <norsetto> ScottK: well, if we have uuc we might as well have them to do something usefull, if that means being stricter in assigning the status, than let it be
[17:28] <ScottK> norsetto: UUC is about getting membership.  That has it's own rights and responsibilities.  Please don't make it more than it is.
[17:29] <norsetto> ScottK: thats where we disagree than
[17:32] <emgent> evening
[17:33] <nhandler> Hello emgent
[17:35] <persia> norsetto: In the past, anyone could request syncs, and the archive admins processed them.
[17:35] <persia> This was changed to request that a member of a group that could upload reviewed them due to some issues (including then active non-MOTU contributors).
[17:36] <persia> Essentially, it's supposed to move the work from archive-admin to MOTU.  Moving to UUC seems odd, as anyone with two months positive activity (even minor) can be UUC.
[17:36] <persia> Mind you, I don't mind if there are other rights granted to UUC, but I don't think sync should be amoung them.
[17:37] <norsetto> persia: yes, so, it would be a compromise between the anarchy of old times and the tiranny of today
[17:37] <norsetto> persia: I mean, lets be stricter in giving uuc status then
[17:37] <persia> norsetto: Tyrrany?
[17:37] <persia> What Tyrrany?
[17:38] <persia> I don't want to review also technical skills for UUC: I'd rather abolish the team and go back to having just MOTU.
[17:38] <persia> The original proposal was to allow MC to separate the granting of membership from the granting of upload rights.
[17:38] <ScottK> If you want to avoid the tyranny, go use Foresight.
[17:38] <persia> The CC asked that it be implemented as a group, hence UUC.
[17:39] <persia> UUC is also a useful collection of prospective developers, so could be suitable for other rights, but not the upload right (which includes sync)
[17:39] <norsetto> persia: well, the CC request should have been rejected, we should have just stick with ubuntu-members
[17:39] <persia> If someone is known to be making the right decision, that person should be encouraged to apply for MOTU.
[17:39] <persia> norsetto: Rejected by whom?  CC is ultimate authority.
[17:39] <persia> (well, maybe sabdfl, but sabdfl is a CC member)
[17:40] <norsetto> persia: being able to ack a sync its a great way from being able to have unrestricted upload rights IMHO
[17:42] <norsetto> persia: its good for uuc, now they have some responsability that cannot be taken lightly, its good for the uus queue, I don't see how being dogmatic would help anyone
[17:43] <ScottK> norsetto: Not wanting to give upload rights to people who don't have upload rights is not being 'dogmatic'.
[17:44] <ScottK> norsetto: Think about if we'd had UUC last year.  Kmos would have probably gotten it.
[17:44] <norsetto> ScottK: yes, and then? If he abused the system he would get out of it
[17:45] <ScottK> norsetto: Really?  How many people have ever been removed from anything in Ubuntu for abuse?
[17:45] <ScottK> You have no idea how much total crap did not make it to the archive because he was being filtered.
[17:45] <norsetto> ScottK: thats because we are all good guys :-)
[17:46] <ScottK> norsetto: BS.  No one gets fired in Ubuntu.  It's well established.
[17:46] <ScottK> There isn't even a mechanism for it.
[17:46] <ScottK> If you get a removal policy approved, then I'll be glad to talk.
[17:47] <persia> What!  We have a removal policy.  We have trouble enforcing it beyond denying all uploads, but it exists.
[17:47] <persia> It didn't exist last year, which was the issue.
[17:47] <norsetto> ScottK: I'm sorry you are so grim about it, but I do really expect that if somebody upload crap he won't get away with it
[17:48] <persia> norsetto: It's not about dogmatism: it's about having had a technical review for anyone able to commit to the archive.
[17:48] <ScottK> norsetto: So far the worst that's ever happened is they've been pretty please asked to stop.
[17:48] <persia> Nobody joining UUC gets a technical review.
[17:48] <norsetto> persia: yes, thats why I said if we have to raise the bar, lets
[17:48] <persia> norsetto: If there is a technical review, how does it differ from MOTU?
[17:48] <ScottK> norsetto: You'd have to fire all the current members first then since they haven't had that review.
[17:49] <norsetto> ScottK: sure, that would have to be taken into account
[17:49] <persia> ScottK: Well, we could review them, and only deactivate those that didn't make the cut.
[17:50] <ScottK> UUC was created to grant membership.  If you want a not-quite-motu-but-had-some-technical-review group, make a new one.
[17:50] <norsetto> ScottK: hmmm, who said anything about being dogmatic ...
[17:51] <ScottK> It was hard enough to get membership delegated to MC.  I don't think we should mess with it.
[17:51] <norsetto> ScottK: I'm trying to find some compromise between having an uuc group that doesn't satisfy anyone and having a group that could do usefull work and whose members will be proud to be part of
[17:52] <norsetto> ScottK: I mean, this is just brainstorming, but is good to have it
[17:53] <ScottK> If people aren't sufficiently proud of being an Ubuntu Member, then they should just skip it and apply for MOTU when ready.
[17:54] <norsetto> ScottK: frankly, whats the point of applying for membership? But that just my personal opinion (obviously not having been a member)
[17:55] <ScottK> Not so much.  It gets you some recognition, an email alias, and some business cards.  In theory a greater voice in the project.
[17:55] <persia> norsetto: It grants an email address, the right to carry business cards, and the right to speak on behalf of the Ubuntu project.
[17:55] <ScottK> People are interested in it though.
[17:55] <persia> To me, it is the last of these that is most critical, and of which I am most proud.
[17:55] <norsetto> persia: well, that right is not written anywhere I'm afraid
[17:57] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[17:57] <huats> if I may :) from my point of view, you also forget to mention (for the uuc) the chance to have a junior mentee (if the new model is accepted)
[17:58]  * persia is still looking for the www.ubuntu.com page, but the email address, business cards, and planet links show the historical intent of speaking on behalf of the project fairly clearly
[17:58] <nhandler> hauts: That is one thing about being a uuc that I really enjoy.
[17:58] <norsetto> persia: yes, and where is that right been talked about?
[18:00] <persia> It seems to have been edited away :/
[18:01] <persia> There used to be a page on www.ubuntu.com that talked about Membership, and included that.
[18:01] <norsetto> persia: well, we still have the irc cloack
[18:02] <persia> norsetto: Hrm?  We still have email, business cards, planet, IRC Cloak.  I suspect most of those not involved in the project would find that combination sufficient to believe someone was speaking on behalf of the project.
[18:03] <persia> If it ceases to be the case that Ubuntu is primarily construed of Ubuntu Members, something has gone far wrong, and ought be fixed.
[18:03] <persia> Further, the assertion that membership isn't an indicator of meaningful involvement is itself a questionable indicator: what would you like to see to reaffirm your belief in membership?
[18:04] <norsetto> persia: I always considered membership to be a palliative, there is no need to reaffirm anything for me
[18:05] <persia> A palliative?  How so?
[18:07] <norsetto> persia: in my case, because it didn't give me anything I wanted, and didn't allow me to do the things I wanted
[18:08] <persia> norsetto: You didn't want to be recognised as a member of the Ubuntu Community?  What did you want that wasn't granted?
[18:08] <norsetto> persia: I wanted to do what I'm doing right now, doing development, and being recognised as part of the development team for me is good enough
[18:09] <ScottK> norsetto: But not everyone feels that way.  Just because it doesn't have value for you, doesn't make it valueless for everyone.
[18:09] <nhandler> I personally am proud to be a member
[18:10] <norsetto> ScottK: sure
[18:10] <persia> norsetto: Ah, I see.  The development team is part of the community, and previously the two were often considered together.
[18:11] <norsetto> nhandler: I'm very proud of being a MOTU, means very very much to me (and I will never be grateful enough for it)
[18:11] <persia> At one point, it was a requirement that one first become a member before being MOTU.
[18:12] <persia> That was dropped, and then re-requested by MOTU.  CC instructed MC to accept applications for both membership and MOTU simultaneously, or it would be a requirement now.
[18:12] <nhandler> You should be proud norsetto. Being a MOTU is a great honor
[18:12] <norsetto> nhandler: it is
[18:14] <norsetto> nhandler: you may not know it but its all scottk fault ;-)
[18:15] <persia> huats: I'm hunting down your member approval CC meeting, but I'm only finding you saying "does anybody know who I should contact if I think I am not referenced as a member, while I should :)" (2007/12/04 21:18).  Do you remember the date of your CC meeting?
[18:15] <nhandler> norsetto: What is his fault?
[18:15] <huats> persia: let me find it
[18:17] <norsetto> nhandler: he helped me when I was still sucking milk and pushed me to it
[18:17] <huats> it was in 29/11/07
[18:17] <ScottK> ;-)
[18:18] <nhandler> norsetto: Ok, that was before I became active with Ubuntu. That is why I don't remember it
[18:18] <huats> persia: is it ok ?
[18:20] <persia> huats: Yep.  Just checking to see if your membership was based on technical comments vs. translations/LoCo, etc.  Given the recommendations you got then, I'm not sure why the mail I'm reading now doesn't have a different subject :)
[18:20] <huats> persia: LOL
[18:20] <huats> hum
[18:20] <huats> I need to work more and more... I lack lots of things :)
[18:21]  * norsetto adds some armagnaq in huats milk
[18:21] <huats> persia: I think my membership was based on both
[18:21] <huats> norsetto: it is named armagnac !
[18:21] <huats> you have a bottle, you don't look at it enough :)
[18:21] <norsetto> huats: ah! today, but the old name wasn't!
[18:22] <huats> :)
[18:22] <norsetto> huats: thats the problem with youth, I'm quite sure you don't even know what absinthe was
[18:24]  * directhex is in the mood for some fine cuban rum
[18:24] <huats> norsetto: sure I know...
[18:24] <huats> the fact that I don't drink it
[18:24] <Syntux> For the sake of learning packaging from scratch, packaging php apps and volunteering to give an IRC session about it, I'm interested in packaging CodeIgniter PHP framework but I'm not sure if it's license fits our table http://paste.syntux.net/bin/60
[18:25] <huats> doesn't mean I don't know it
[18:25] <huats> :)
[18:25] <tristil> Is this a good place to mention a change in hardy-proposed?
[18:26] <directhex> Syntux, never use a well-understood well-regarded license when a subtly different homebrew one will suffice!
[18:27] <norsetto> Syntux: I wouldn 't know beacuse of clause 5 and 6. Is this package going to be called codeigniter :-)
[18:28] <directhex> norsetto, iceelephant!
[18:28] <norsetto> directhex: firemonkey!
[18:29] <directhex> phoenix!
[18:29] <directhex> no, wait...
[18:29] <directhex> firebird!
[18:29] <directhex> damn!
[18:29] <Syntux> norsetto, deb package isn't a product by any mean, or at leas that's how I would understand it.
[18:29] <persia> Syntux: That license should be fine.  We've a few other things like that in the archive.
[18:30] <persia> The main issue is for true downstreams: Ubuntu ought be in compliance just through publication of debian/copyright.  There's a little extra overhead in patches, which might be worth mention in README.source
[18:31] <norsetto> persia: don't know, I thought our changelog would comply with that clause
[18:31] <norsetto> persia: ah no, you are right, they require it IN the files
[18:32] <persia> norsetto: Clause 4 requires documentation in the source files themselves.
[18:32] <ScottK> Personally, I find licenses that require "Any files that have been modified must carry notices ..." stunningly annoying, but not non-free.
[18:33]  * persia wholeheartedly agrees with ScottK, especially the "stunning" bit.
[18:37] <norsetto> tristil: what change?
[18:38] <tristil> norsetto, I'm filing the bug now, but on newest kernel in hardy-proposed my USB mouse doesn't work.
[18:39] <norsetto> tristil: ok, then I'm afraid this is not the best place, #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-kernel might be more appropriate
[18:40] <tacone> mh, I'd check license for codeigniter docs too, if present.
[18:41] <Syntux> tacone, they don't have one.
[18:41] <tacone> they had some discussion with some forkers about docs license in the past. so better check
[18:42] <Syntux> sounds like a very controversial license :D
[18:42] <tacone> the discussion was about online docs, but I thought it was safer  to warn you anyway.
[18:43] <tacone> Syntux: are you packaging it from scratch ?
[18:43] <Syntux> tacone, yes.
[18:43] <tacone> I thought about CI too. nice thing, good work with it. If you have any problem with php related things I can help.
[18:44] <Syntux> tacone, I'm php developer myself; with fancy @php.net :p
[18:44] <Syntux> but hey! I'm trying to quit it and getting more into python.
[18:45] <tacone> oh well. I have to surrender to the @phpp.net, then :-)
[18:45]  * tacone already quitted.
[18:45] <tacone> and already messing with python :-)
[18:46] <Syntux> I'm in love with Django although it doesn't seems that I'll be fluent with it any time soon.
[18:47] <ScottK> StevenK: Nevermind on that sponsorship request.  Someone else grabbed it.
[18:48] <tacone> I am in lov..(cough cough) with python-gtk cough.
[18:50]  * directhex offers goodie bags containing gtk#
[18:52] <directhex> you even get to use python with it, courtesy doko. can't say fairer than that, guv'nor
[18:54] <pi-meson> How does ubuntu decide which libs go into hardy-backports?
[18:54] <persia> pi-meson: As few as possible.
[18:55] <persia> The idea is that backports ought be only edge applications, compiled against the versions of the libraries that were present in the release.
[18:55] <persia> There are a few exceptions, where some library only exists to support one or two packages, but these are definitely exceptions.
[18:56] <directhex> but it's not impossible on a per-case personal basis, if you have a pressing need, using a launchpad account and a PPA
[18:56] <pi-meson> okay, so let's say that ibex has 1.35 of some lib that I find myself needing, but I'd still like to mostly target LTS as my main platform for deployment. Is the best solution to get the src debs from ibex, recompile them on a hardy box, and distribute them via my own repo?
[18:56] <huats> does anybody know why dh_installexamples take some of my file and make them .gz while not to the other part ? (same extension .tcl , same dir, same rights)
[18:57] <directhex> pi-meson, a PPA will largely take care of that for you
[18:58] <pi-meson> what if I already have my own repo deploying my stuff? Does the PPA buy me much? I've not seen them before (although wow, what a great idea)
[18:59] <directhex> what would you use to compile your packages usually?
[18:59] <pi-meson> just my local x86_64  8.04 desktop  VM
[18:59] <pi-meson> (i actually have a friend handling a lot of that)
[18:59] <directhex> often you'll find doing that causes bad packages
[19:00] <pi-meson> oh? bad in what ways ? (and why?)
[19:00] <directhex> for example, let's say package foo needs library bar, but that isn't reflected correctly in foo's source package. you HAPPEN to have bar installed already, so it compiled and works locally - however, it screws up for other people
[19:01] <directhex> if compiling packages, you should ensure correctness by building in a "sterile" environment, e.g. using a tool like pbuilder. and a ppa would basically mean the pbuilder is hosted by someone else, rather than using up all YOUR disk and cpu
[19:01] <persia> pi-meson: If you want to target hardy LTS, you should try to work with the older versions of the packages.  If you already have your own repo, a PPA does little for you.
[19:01] <pi-meson> oh, right, we have to be careful and also need to test things. That's not such a big burden, as we're only targeting one release/arch. I can see how it would be in the future.
[19:02] <directhex> i used to do about 30 packages on 2 arches by hand in VMs
[19:02] <persia> directhex: a PPA is not a replacement for local building: one should still build it locally before uploading.
[19:02] <directhex> and it was pretty nightmarish
[19:02] <directhex> persia, one SHOULD, yes
[19:02] <pi-meson> persia: in my case, boost (a suite of c++ libs) released both a bunch of fixes in 1.35 and a new interprocess lib that solves 60% of my current design headache. So I'd love to use it, and push the work on to my build guy :)
[19:03] <persia> pi-meson: Completely understood, just be aware that an application depending on boost 1.35 will not work on default hardy, and installing the updated boost breaks lots of other stuff.
[19:03] <directhex> persia, s/breaks/probably &/
[19:04] <persia> directhex: In the case of boost, there is no probably involved.
[19:04] <pi-meson> right, I've got that. I also for some reason thought the 1.35 packages as currently in ibex were parallel-installable
[19:04] <directhex> oh. i forgot. yay for c++
[19:05] <directhex> pi-meson, it looks like you may be right. the package name is versioned
[19:06] <persia> pi-meson: That's only a temporary transition leftover.  The development headers only exist for 1.35, and everything is likely to be migrated for release.
[19:06] <slytherin> geser: persia: do you have some time for sponsoring a java package (electric)?
[19:06] <persia> slytherin: What class: update, new upstream, new package?
[19:07] <slytherin> persia: new upstream. Orphaned in Debian. Moved from C to Java
[19:07] <pi-meson> ugh, okay, so I'm potentially going to break peoples hardies doing this then. Crap.
[19:07] <persia> slytherin: Ah.  I should probably say no then, as that's more review than to which I can safely commit right now.
[19:08] <slytherin> no issues
[19:08] <directhex> file a debian ITP!
[19:08] <slytherin> directhex: I am not going to maintain it in debian
[19:21] <nhandler> Earlier, we were discussing additional privileges for uuc's. I'm interested in hearing what other MOTUs think about making uuc's part of the ubuntu-bugcontrol team. I have looked through the bugcontrol mailing list, and it looks like they are hesitant to make uuc's part of bugcontrol. They feel that uuc's should just wait until they become MOTUs
[19:22] <persia> I think it's a matter of expressed interest.
[19:22] <persia> If someone wants to join bugcontrol, it typically takes 5-10 well triaged bugs.
[19:22] <persia> Given that much of MOTU work is bugfixing, triaging 5 bugs on the way towards a patch isn't that high a barrier.
[19:22] <persia> For bugcontrol, one doesn't even need to get the patch right.
[19:23] <persia> Mind you, back in gutsy, I advocated that everyone interested in MOTU should first join bugsquad, but that was argued against, so I may be biased.
[19:25]  * slytherin just smashed another FTBFS. 
[19:25] <nhandler> "On a more general note, I feel like we need or want triagers in the Bug Control team and that this isn't necessarily people who are becoming MOTUs."
[19:26] <nhandler> That is a quote from the bug control mailing list
[19:29]  * norsetto wonders if one day he will be able to find upstream homepage in LP package's page
[19:29] <persia> nhandler: Which thread?  I'm not finding that quote.
[19:29] <nhandler> persia: http://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bugcontrol/msg00001.html
[19:31] <ScottK> nhandler: When I joined (before I was MOTU) I had to go through the steps to show that I could effectively triage bugs.
[19:31] <ScottK> I think this is reasonable.
[19:34] <nhandler> I don't have an issue with people having to prove that they know how to triage bugs. However, I do not think that it should be more difficult to become part of bugcontrol if you are trying to become a MOTU than if you are just interested in triaging bugs.
[19:35] <ScottK> It's more difficult?
[19:36] <nhandler> ScottK, It looks like they feel that someone working to become a MOTU should wait to become part of bugcontrol until they become a MOTU.
[19:37] <persia> nhandler: I believe that the interpretation of that has changed.
[19:38] <persia> Since February, there have been a number of people who joined bug control while also pursuing development goals.
[19:40] <persia> nhandler: http://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bugcontrol/msg00044.html is likely a better presentation of current thinking.
[19:40] <persia> There's uncertainty about granting bugcontrol to people who don't triage user-supplied bugs, but not clear objection.
[19:42] <nhandler> Ok, thanks for clearing that up. That message that you linked to is from the same person who sent the message I linked to earlier.
[19:42] <persia> Yep.
[19:42] <nhandler> I might try and apply for bugcontrol and see how things go.
[19:43] <persia> Earlier this year there was some confusion about "Bug Triagers" vs. "Developers".  Since then, we've all remembered that we have the same goal: no more bugs :)
[19:52] <slytherin> persia: This should be easy work. bug 251590. If you are going to work on it I will not subscribe u-u-s.
[19:52] <emgent> ember: ping
[19:52] <persia> slytherin: Always subscribe u-u-s.  That's the best way to get me to sponsor it when I have time :)
[19:53] <slytherin> ok
[20:05] <norsetto> hmmmm, how does it work, can we upload packages from a non-official debian repo?
[20:08] <norsetto> Frankly, I don't know what this guy is doing, we have funguloids and ogre-contrib both bd on ogre 1.4.9 but in debian main/ubuntu universe we only have 1.4.6; in debian they have binNMU for funguloids/ogre-contrib for i386 and a 1.4.9 package is in mentors
[20:13] <slytherin> Can someone give back jajuk?
[20:14] <ScottK> Well they need to move fast in Debian, freeze for Lenny is this weekend.
[20:15] <directhex> don't remind me
[20:15] <geser> slytherin: it's in depwait on substance
[20:16] <smagoun> I have a package foo that Build-Depends: libsqlite3-dev. I found that the foo binary depends on libsqlite3.so rather than libsqlite3.so.0. This is bad because libsqlite3.so is only available in the -dev package, which I don't want to depend on. It looks like the .so dependency might be because foo's makefile uses -avoid-version. How is this commonly handled in Debian/Ubuntu? Is there a 'don't use -avoid-version' rule?
[20:16] <directhex> trying to strip 20%+ of a package's dependencies by the weekend
[20:16] <slytherin> geser: substance is built. It was built on 2 days ago.
[20:16] <directhex> smagoun, don't use -avoid-version. it is dumb beyond belief.
[20:16] <slytherin> geser: ahh, it must be in NEW queue
[20:17] <smagoun> directhex: ok, I thought someone might say that. :)
[20:18] <geser> slytherin: yes, once it passes NEW jajuk will get given-back automatically
[20:18] <slytherin> right, I didn't check new queue first
[20:19] <slytherin> geser: 'electric' waiting for you to sponsor. :-D
[20:23] <norsetto> ScottK: I doubt they mean to do anything, 1.4.8 was in mentors since May and never uploaded to main
[20:24] <persia> I believe we had a problem with ogre-config: related to the way that the nvidia stuff works, it needs manual building (for internet access), which breaks fungaloids.
[20:25] <mario_limonciell> huh?
[20:25] <norsetto> persia: yes, that breaks in a pbuilder but I though it was handled ok in our buildd
[20:25] <mario_limonciell> why does the nvidia stuff need web access to build
[20:25] <persia> norsetto: Not last I looked at it.
[20:25] <norsetto> mario_limonciell: its the cg toolkit
[20:26] <mario_limonciell> norsetto, it can't be patched around it?
[20:26] <persia> mario_limonciell: Distribution license for the CGI toolkit.
[20:26] <persia> s/I//
[20:26] <norsetto> persia: anyhow, that just one problem, but its only for ogre-contrib, not for ogre
[20:27] <mario_limonciell> persia, it prohibits patching?
[20:27] <persia> norsetto: But it breaks fungaloids.
[20:27] <norsetto> persia: yes, but not ogre :-)
[20:27] <persia> mario_limonciell: I think it requires personal download from nvidia (we have a -installer package).
[20:27] <norsetto> persia: now, if the question is wth do we need ogre for thats also an interesting question
[20:28] <mario_limonciell> persia, ah i hate stuff like that
[20:28] <mario_limonciell> persia, has there been a request to them to perhaps change the license to allow a more sane redistribution?
[20:28] <persia> norsetto: fungaloids.
[20:28] <persia> mario_limonciell: Not to which I've been privy
[20:29] <directhex> i doubt i should abuse my workplace contacts at nvidia
[20:29] <mario_limonciell> directhex, likewise, but i don't think it's the same contacts anyhow
[20:29] <directhex> there are a couple of nvidia people in ##nvidia who might know the right people
[20:30] <persia> Someone with time might ask them (prod)
[20:35] <DRebellion> Could somebody review my package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=posterazor People have said it is all OK, but I haven't been able to get any MOTUs to take a look and advocate it.
[20:35] <norsetto> persia: anyhow, do we have any policy for uploads from non-official debian repo (mentors, debian-media, etc.)?
[20:35] <directhex> use dots for version numbers, iirc
[20:36] <persia> norsetto: Only indirectly.  Any developer can upload just about anything they want as long as they don't break things (or have a plan to fix them).
[20:37] <norsetto> persia: right
[20:37] <persia> We've done syncs from all sorts of random repos on the net in the past, although these days we're more conservative.
[20:37] <persia> I'd say that the appropriate action depends on the source.
[20:37] <persia> For debian-media, I'd look to siretart or LucidFox for guidance, as they likely know better.
[20:38] <persia> For mentors, I'd likely push as the just lower Ubuntu version (e.g. -3ubuntu1 for -4 on mentors) expecting a sync.
[20:38] <norsetto> persia: I've checked the package, its seems all nice and clean, build ok, I'm tempted to just upload it, at least that one less to go and could be usefull as a stand alone 3d engine anyhow
[20:39] <norsetto> persia: hmmm, doing that I wouldn't like, I don't want anyone to accuse me of having "stolen" his package
[20:40] <ScottK> For debian-media pay close attention to licensing.  There is stuff in there that doesn't even fit in multiverse.
[20:40] <norsetto> ScottK: ok
[20:42] <directhex> persia, i disagree - if it's not based on -3 then it shouldn't be numbered -3anything
[20:42] <directhex> persia, this sounds like a job for ~
[20:42] <persia> directhex: I'm presuming that -4 on mentors is based on -3.  I don't like to use ~ unless required, as it makes doing an update later more complicated.
[20:43] <Syntux> There is a MOTU meeting in minutes, right?
[20:43] <jmehdi> I've uploaded a new package for Webstrict (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=webstrict) but I don't see it... should I wait?
[20:43] <siretart> persia: who wants to work on multimedia?
[20:43] <persia> norsetto: To avoid perception of theft, leave their work in the changelog, and sync as soon as possible.
[20:43] <fretchen> Hello, I playing around on some mozilla programs at the moment. So here is my problem. I want to focus on development of the applications, but I also want to use the patches of ubuntu. So I can download the bzr branches and apply every patch. But isn't it possible to apply the hole configuration that you created in the debian folder on development branches ?
[20:44] <norsetto> persia: yes, but if this is like 1.4.8, that never gets to main, we won't be able to do that
[20:44] <persia> siretart: norsetto was asking about importing packages from there.
[20:45] <norsetto> siretart: I was asking about importing packages from non-official debian repo
[20:45] <fretchen> So I can develop on the sunbird or whatever and i can use the debian patches and build configuration. I can use this work and if there is a problem I can fix this maybe. Did I explain it well and if yes are there tools for this?
[20:45] <persia> norsetto: Right, so you have final signoff on the changes in the changelog for Ubuntu.  You might check with the uploader first: maybe they'd be willing to prepare the ubuntu-friendly changelog.
[20:46] <siretart> norsetto: mmh, yes, we do that from time to time, but espescially for ffmpeg, that move is now causing me an incredible pain in the ass now :/
[20:46] <persia> fretchen: You might ask in #ubuntu-mozillateam
[20:46] <fretchen> okay
[20:46] <norsetto> siretart: yes :-)
[21:09] <slytherin> persia: do you mind if I log a catch all bug for migrating packages from libservlet2.3-java to libservlet2.4-java?
[21:12] <Awsoonn> hi all, when I apt-get source i get an error about public key not found
[21:13] <Awsoonn> how do i import the key?
[21:13] <slytherin> Awsoonn: you can safely ignore the error
[21:13] <Awsoonn> Do you ever check the signatures?
[21:13] <jpds> Awsoonn: On package upload.
[21:14] <Awsoonn> alrighty :)
[21:22] <norsetto_> persia: the cg toolkit seems to be building fine on the buildd: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/nvidia-cg-toolkit/+builds
[21:23] <norsetto_> persia: ah yes, is ogre-contrib that fails
[21:24] <ScottK> Personally, when I grab something from mentors, I prefer to use whatever the natural next Ubuntu revision would be and put credit in debian/changelog.
[21:24] <ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/rails/2.1.0-1ubuntu1 is my most recent example.
[21:24] <smagoun> directhex: I disabled -avoid-version and rebuilt, but I get the same results (linked against libsqlite3.so rather than libsqlite3.so.0). I noticed in the build log 'dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: Can't extract name and version from library name `libsqlite3.so'. Is there an obvious fix for that?
[21:25] <norsetto> ScottK: I sent an email to the guy packaging it in Debian
[21:26] <directhex> smagoun, doesn't ring any bells, but i'm more used to .net linking
[21:26] <slytherin> does anyone have any idea why am I getting this error - http://paste.ubuntu.com/30078/
[21:27] <smagoun> persia: if you're still awake, any ideas about the dpkg-shlibdeps error ^^^^ ?
[21:30] <Awsoonn> well, in effort to learn a bit today, I want to fix Bug #243948 for intrepid. I'm a bit confused at the prossess though I guess
[21:31] <norsetto> Awsoonn: personally, I think that bug is not valid
[21:32] <Awsoonn> norsetto: why do you say that?
[21:32] <norsetto> Awsoonn: because man apt-get explains it pretty well
[21:34] <norsetto> Awsoonn: on second thought, no, it doesn't explain it pretty well
[21:34] <Awsoonn> well, that may be true for you, but I as well did not understand the meaning of pruge without asking #ubuntu
[21:35] <norsetto> and this is also nice: remove is identical to install except that packages are removed instead of installed
[21:35] <Awsoonn> besides, I REALLY want to learn the proccess, and this is a simple -bug- to fix
[21:35] <Awsoonn> yea, I smiled at that one too
[21:35] <norsetto> Awsoonn: well, why don't you ask your question then?
[21:37] <Awsoonn> ok, I made changes to the source to take care of it, but I'm fairly lost on what is needed of me now. I think the end result I need isa a debdiff, no?
[21:37] <norsetto> Awsoonn: yes
[21:38] <norsetto> Awsoonn: apt-get is in main, so you need to subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors if you want them to sponsor it
[21:38] <Awsoonn> if I can squeeze a debdiff out of the sucker
[21:38] <Awsoonn> :)
[21:38] <norsetto> Awsoonn: whats the problem with the debdiff ?
[21:39] <Awsoonn> I just don't know how to make one, or am looking in the wrong places
[21:39] <nhandler> Awsoonn: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
[21:40] <norsetto> Awsoonn: this one is not clear: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff ?
[21:41] <norsetto> mine is better, I have a hard cover colored binder
[21:42] <Awsoonn> I was looking at another page, I'll run this down~ Thanks :)
[21:54] <norsetto> norsetto-huats: 3-3 et toc
[21:56] <huats> LOL
[21:56] <huats> I think that it was just 1 point a day :)
[21:56] <huats> but if you start cheating...
[21:56] <huats> ;)
[21:56] <norsetto> huats: sorry, it was totally legal and within the rules
[21:57] <huats> :)
[21:58] <norsetto> huats: btw, don't try to take the easy way out, we will install those examples ;-)
[21:59] <huats> :)
[21:59] <huats> ok...
[21:59] <huats> but right now I don't see how...
[21:59] <huats> I said right now :)
[22:17] <norsetto> devfil: you took care of wxwidget or am I wrong?
[22:17] <devfil> norsetto: you're right
[22:18] <norsetto> devfil: I just stumbled upon bug 251507. Care to give it a look?
[22:20] <norsetto> devfil: he is talking about ps3, I think that would be the powerpc arch
[22:20] <ScottK> ps3 is PPC.
[22:20] <Laney> Anyone got a URL to a good list of bugs that need fixing? Just triaged in Ubuntu?
[22:21] <ScottK> Laney: Ubuntu or Kubuntu?
[22:21] <Laney> ScottK: Ubuntu for now, I don't run Kubuntu
[22:22] <ScottK> OK.  I've got a need, but it needs Kubuntu, so nevermind.
[22:22] <Laney> ScottK: Ah right. I was after an LP query that I could bookmark
[22:22] <norsetto> Laney: did you see harvest?
[22:22] <Laney> norsetto: Yeah
[22:22] <Awsoonn> In my chroot, how do I fix these errors? http://pastebin.com/d3926b93
[22:23] <devfil> norsetto: the bug is bizarre
[22:25] <norsetto> Awsoonn: I think this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot should help you
[22:25] <Awsoonn> 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure locales' didn't fix it like that wiki told me to do :(
[22:26] <devfil> norsetto: in debian field of libwxgtk2.6-0 there is only ${shlibs:Depends}
[22:26] <norsetto> devfil: yes, thats the control file for the source package I guess?
[22:27] <devfil> norsetto: yea
[22:27] <norsetto> devfil: ok, you know what ${shlibs:Depends} is ?
[22:28] <devfil> norsetto: it takes the deps needed from build-depends, the deps needed to start
[22:28] <Awsoonn> win, I got it, thanks~ :)
[22:30] <norsetto> devfil: hm, not quite, after build debhelper checks what shared libraries your executables need and substitute them for that variable
[22:31] <Awsoonn> can a debdiff be applied to later versions of a package? such as a debdiff from hardy package be applied to a package in Intrepid?
[22:31] <norsetto> devfil: so, if you want to know what they are, you can either check apt-cache (but that will only work for your arch), or download the deb for the ppc arch and use dpkg to see it
[22:31] <devfil> norsetto: ok
[22:32] <norsetto> devfil: you can also use p.u.c.
[22:32] <norsetto> devfil: even though I don't know if it has ppc packages in it
[22:33] <norsetto> Awsoonn: no, it can't, a debdiff contains changelog information and can only be applied to a particular version
[22:35] <devfil> norsetto: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/powerpc/libwxbase2.6-0/2.6.3.2.2-2ubuntu4 there isn't libgtk2.0-0
[22:37] <Awsoonn> ok, when would I want to make a patch and put it in debian/patches? and does this mean any change I make I have to resubmit everytime an upstream version comes down?
[22:37] <nhandler> You use patches in debian/patches when you need to make a change outside the debian directory Awsoonn
[22:39] <Laney> Awsoonn: Once your patch is in the Ubuntu version, whoever does the update to the next upstream version should evaluate whether it is still required and ensure that it applies cleanly if so.
[22:40] <norsetto> devfil: why are you checking libwxbase?
[22:40] <devfil> norsetto: I'm an idiot -.-'
[22:48] <devfil> norsetto: I really don't know what is the problem
[22:48] <norsetto> devfil: it looks to me as if the guy is trying to install a gutsy package
[22:50] <devfil> norsetto: then?
[22:50] <norsetto> devfil: we could ask him what is the version of the package he is trying to install
[22:51] <devfil> norsetto: I think https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/powerpc/libwxgtk2.6-0/2.6.3.2.1.5ubuntu12
[22:51] <norsetto> devfil: yes, thats a gutsy package
[22:51] <devfil> but the problem of libgtk2.0-0 is bizarre
[22:52] <devfil> >= so 2.12.9 should be ok
[22:52] <norsetto> devfil: thats apt for you, perhpas that package conflicts with others, to be really sure what the problem is you should either ask somebody with a ppc to test it, or have a full log
[22:53] <porthose> norsetto:  interesting read, I will leave those alone and move on to something else then, I have a few others to go work on thx :)
[22:54] <norsetto> porthose: :-)
[22:58] <norsetto> devfil: I would say something like: its difficult for me to judge since I don't have a ppc to test, but looks like as if apt-get is trying to install the version from gutsy. Do you have correct repositories in your sources.list file? Are your mirrors up to date?
[22:59] <devfil> norsetto: I will ask if the reply will be incomplete or insufficient
[23:01] <norsetto> devfil: do you know where the apt logs are?
[23:02] <devfil> norsetto: yes
[23:03] <devfil> uhm I need to learn how to use a keyboard XD
[23:15] <kdubois> i'm trying to package what can be described as a module for a program thats auto-included in ubuntu. I however, have a developer's git version installed on my computer. does pbuilder make sure that it links against the ubuntu versions, not my funky developer's version?
[23:16] <Laney> yes
[23:17] <nhandler> I'm patching a package that has a version of 2.1~rc7-5build1 (in Intrepid). What does the 'build1' part mean? If I am patching this package, what version should my new version be '2.1~rc7-5build2'?
[23:17] <kdubois> neat. i may be back later with more questions :D thanks Laney
[23:18] <Laney> nhandler: I believe "build" is only used for no-change rebuilds so you should use ubuntu1 next.
[23:18] <Laney> (someone please confirm)
[23:18] <nhandler> So I would use 2.1~rc7-5build1ubuntu1? or 2.1~rc7-5ubuntu1?
[23:19] <Laney> just -5ubuntu1
[23:19] <Laney> laney@chicken:~$ dpkg --compare-versions foo-5build1 lt foo-5ubuntu1; echo $?
[23:19] <Laney> Seems right to me
[23:19] <Laney> 0
[23:19] <nhandler> Ok, thanks Laney
[23:53] <Jazzva> Hi. I would like if someone could review sphinxbase and pocketsphinx packages in revu. pocketsphinx build-depends on libsphinxbase-dev, which is provided by sphinxbase. I took a quick look and I think most of it should be ok. Though, I know little about python packaging, and they provide few python packages.
[23:54] <Jazzva> sphinxbase is at <http://revu.ubuntuwire.org/details.py?package=sphinxbase> and pocketsphinx is at <http://revu.ubuntuwire.org/details.py?package=pocketsphinx>. pocketsphinx is new dependency for gnome-voice-control 0.3, which I maintain.
[23:55] <Jazzva> Thanks :)
[23:56] <Jazzva> Another notice: I haven't packaged pocketsphinx, and sphinxbase, just searching for reviewers/advocates...
[23:58] <Awsoonn> if I put a patch in debian/patches is it automagicly applied at build time?