[03:12] <pwnguin> heh
[03:12] <pwnguin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Newsplash
[03:29] <zerwas> heh
[03:29] <zerwas> MadsRH's idea is by far the coolest
[03:30] <zerwas> pwnguin, don't you think so too?
[03:41] <DanaG> where what?  I entered whatever conversation that was, way late.
[03:44] <zerwas> i would love to make MadsRH idea real if i would know anything about the usplash things
[03:46] <zerwas> looks like C knowledge is needed :(
[04:02] <DanaG> can't say I know who MadRH is.
[06:51] <pwnguin> zerwas: i do know C ;)
[06:52] <zerwas> pwnguin, do it, do it! :>
[06:52] <zerwas> with 8.10 i will think of you *every* time i boot my ubuntu :-P
[06:53] <pwnguin> so which one was madRH?
[06:53] <pwnguin> oh, that'll be a bit tricky
[06:55] <pwnguin> afaik, there are some pretty brutal usplash limitations
[06:58] <DanaG> Oh hey, if you want to see something random, try out any of the SuSE or OpenSUSE (even as far back as 9.3, I think) CDs...
[06:58] <DanaG> boot it multiple times, and sometimes you'll get penguins.
[06:58] <DanaG> And hit F8 and you'll get pixels marching around to make the chamelon.
[07:12] <pwnguin> so what's the feeling on usplash vs splashy?
[07:31] <zerwas> mh, will splashy substitute usplash with Ubuntu 8.10? (hope so)
[07:32] <zerwas> pwnguin, i would love to help you with this where i can (like, packaging ore something that does not require coding)
[07:38] <pwnguin> do you really package without coding?
[07:40] <zerwas> tried a bit
[07:40] <zerwas> ;)
[07:43] <pwnguin> heh, if you really wanna help, collect boot splash videos from various OS's
[07:45] <zerwas> pwnguin, okay, i have XP, Mac OS X 10.4, OpenSUSE 11 for the beginning. how would that help?
[07:46] <DanaG> Hmm, opensuse 11 sucks.
[07:46] <DanaG> Look at earlier ones.
[07:47] <zerwas> okay, just read that Splashy won't make it before Kernel 2.6.27 :-(
[07:48]  * DanaG wants fbsplash!
[07:49] <pwnguin> what?
[07:49] <pwnguin> i thought splashy was a userspace thing
[07:49] <DanaG> google it -- it gives nifty console backgrounds.
[07:49] <pwnguin> i know about fbsplash
[07:50] <zerwas> pwnguin, i thought so too, but on ubuntuforums.org they say: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=477426&page=24
[07:51] <DanaG> The countdown thingy on SuSE is nifty.... the circle in grub.
[07:52] <pwnguin> oh, well if ubuntuforums says its true, then it must be false
[07:52] <DanaG> heh, penguins.
[07:52] <DanaG> http://www.pro-linux.de/berichte/jpgs/suse10/suse10-boot.jpg
[07:53] <zerwas> have to write exam now
[07:53] <pwnguin> oh
[07:54] <pwnguin> zerwas: its about mode switching
[07:54] <pwnguin> in kernel
[07:54] <zerwas> pwnguin, huh? they are not talking about splashy? you are sure?
[07:54] <zerwas> go one page backward
[07:57] <pwnguin> they're talking about seemless mode switching in fedora
[07:57] <pwnguin> redhat pays the most prolific kernel hacker to bring that kinda stuff into rawhide
[07:57] <DanaG> Too bad I'll never be able to get native-res framebuffer on my current laptop.
[07:57] <pwnguin> you know how there's a black screen between switching modes? the idea is to eliminate that
[07:58] <pwnguin> and go straight from bootsplash to gdm
[07:58] <pwnguin> DanaG: never?
[08:00] <DanaG> Well, as long as nvidiafb doesn't get along with nvidia binaries...
[08:01] <DanaG> Well, once nouveau gets good, then maybe it'll be possible.
[08:01] <DanaG> My VESA BIOS does not have even any right-aspect-ratio modes... except for 640x400 (which is widescreen).
[08:06] <DanaG> http://www.falkotimme.com/howtos/perfect_setup_suse9_3/images/15.jpg
[08:06] <DanaG> that has a nifty spinny thing.
[08:07] <pwnguin> ive used nouveau several times
[08:07] <pwnguin> works okay for both my cards
[08:08] <pwnguin> screenshots are worthless; we're after animations ;)
[08:08] <DanaG> Anyway, the dots around the chameleon head change color, kinda' like the spinner in Firefox.
[08:41] <davmor2> morning people.  My blog post about how non-devs can contribute seems to of attracted an artist do I just need to point them here or are there some wiki pages or what?
[08:46] <davmor2> no probs found the wiki section in the end and passed it on :)
[12:37] <thorwil> oops: http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/images/hrf/home_brand2.gif
[14:17] <db92> pst, im looking for ubuntu hardy covers for a dvd case, know of any in existence? :/ ive been looking for a while but i cant find any
[21:47] <zerwas> pwnguin, did you have a look at the usplash theming thing?
[21:51] <pwnguin> i browsed the source a bit
[21:51] <pwnguin> its kinda wierd
[21:52] <pwnguin> probably because usplash runs at boot, where you might not have the full runtime libraries available
[21:52] <zerwas> ye that's what i also thought
[21:52] <pwnguin> basically, there's a bunch of functions in the libusplash
[21:52] <zerwas> do you think the idea we saw in the wiki is possible?
[21:52] <pwnguin> well, i think anything is possible
[21:52] <pwnguin> how much of usplash would be left I can't say
[21:53] <pwnguin> there's a bit of wierd OO there
[21:53] <zerwas> hm
[21:53] <pwnguin> where if your theme object has functions, they override the defaults
[21:54] <pwnguin> but its all in C
[21:55]  * _MMA_ is going to look at using Splashy for Studio. Easier to theme.
[21:55] <pwnguin> you could probably write your own animation functions rather than use the built in bar render
[21:55] <pwnguin> i read splashy uses XML
[21:55] <pwnguin> so thats also kinda ~~
[21:55] <_MMA_> No worse that GDM.
[21:56] <pwnguin> if they havent thought of your idea, i imagine you're SoL
[21:56] <zerwas> better than C :-P
[21:56] <pwnguin> gdm is bad
[21:56] <_MMA_> It's all relative.
[21:56] <_MMA_> Anything I can look at and read is fine for me.
[21:57] <pwnguin> but the layout is fairly restrictive, if i recall
[21:57] <zerwas> But splashy is no alternative yet because it won't find it's way into intrepid as default
[21:57] <pwnguin> zerwas: why not?
[21:57] <_MMA_> zerwas: I can do what I want with Studio. ;)
[21:59] <_MMA_> Fedora is also looking at Splashy.
[21:59] <_MMA_> Or writing something from scratch.
[21:59] <zerwas> pwnguin, hm due to the fact that kernel 2.6.27 won't be in intrepid?
[22:00] <pwnguin> jesus
[22:00] <pwnguin> do we have to go through that again?
[22:00] <pwnguin> why does usplash depend on 2.6.27?
[22:00] <_MMA_> ?
[22:01] <_MMA_> s/usplash/splashy ?
[22:01] <pwnguin> yes
[22:01] <pwnguin> sorry
[22:01] <_MMA_> Who says Splashy depends on any kernel? Link?
[22:03] <pwnguin> _MMA_: check the irclogs for this channel
[22:03] <pwnguin> from like yesterday
[22:03] <_MMA_> You know the crackheads in here.
[22:04] <_MMA_> Last mention of "splashy" I have in here is from April.
[22:05] <pwnguin> thats why we have irclogs.ubuntu.com ;)
[22:05] <_MMA_> So... link?
[22:05] <zerwas> i just read it here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=477426&page=24
[22:06] <_MMA_> And it better be from someone with a shred of credibility.
[22:06] <pwnguin> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/07/25/%23ubuntu-artwork.html
[22:06] <zerwas> sorry, i was busy making tea
[22:09] <_MMA_> pwnguin: Ahh... Nice. New modsetting options.
[22:09] <_MMA_> Cool.
[22:10] <pwnguin> eventually
[22:10] <zerwas> i also asked about intrepid+splashy-by-default in #ubuntu+1 and got: "RAOF Does splashy now do the things that it didn't do when we first chose to write usplash? (Such as work on !IA32, not break resume-from-suspend, etc)"
[22:10] <pwnguin> heh
[22:10] <pwnguin> now those are valid reasons
[22:11] <pwnguin> and i kinda wish there was a good way to document these sorts of blockers
[22:12] <_MMA_> Yep. All valid reasons. But you can bet if RH is paying someone to do it it gonna work out for everyone.
[22:14] <zerwas> The question is if it will be finished til feature freeze for intrepid
[22:15] <pwnguin> _MMA_: packagekit is done by a redhat hire...
[22:16] <_MMA_> zerwas: Who's that question for? If it's not, it's not. Simple. Usplash 'till Splashy is ready. Simple.
[22:16] <pwnguin> _MMA_: well, if you want to write a boot theme for intrepid it matters
[22:17] <pwnguin> if you want to write a boot theme for splashy, maybe not
[22:18] <_MMA_> Ok. I just see it as an odd question. For the general public, sure. It's a bummer. For Ubuntu... oh well. :)
[22:18] <pwnguin> well, i think you have that backwards
[22:18] <pwnguin> the general public, who cares
[22:18] <pwnguin> for the guy writing a theme he wants to see in ubuntu and get recognition for, its important
[22:19] <_MMA_> Thats the general public.
[22:19] <_MMA_> There's only 2 people "the guy".
[22:19] <_MMA_> Mark and Ken.
[22:19] <pwnguin> what?
[22:19] <_MMA_> *people who can be..
[22:20] <pwnguin> maybe I misunderstood something fundamental to the artwork team
[22:21] <pwnguin> Mark and Ken are Ubuntu and the rest of us can deal?
[22:22] <_MMA_> As far as the art goes, yes. To a degree. Since they are ultimately the ones who decide what's default.
[22:22] <pwnguin> cuz if that's how it is, i got other stuff I can do; patch up cellwriter or file some wacom bugs with upstream
[22:23] <pwnguin> sure, they're the vote on default, but they can't make splashy work by sheer force of will
[22:24] <pwnguin> anyways, this is coming down to silly semantics
[22:24] <_MMA_> No. Im saying if its not ready for intrepid, they aren't sweating it.
[22:24] <_MMA_> Whereas the "general public" will be pissed its not in Intrepid.
[22:24] <pwnguin> your false dictomy of "general public" versus "ubuntu" needs a third category
[22:25] <_MMA_> For you it might.
[22:26] <_MMA_> If something simply isnt ready, nobody who has power to put things in by default is losing sleep.
[22:27] <zerwas> don't forget that mark just has said how really important the look of ubuntu is and the task is now to even beat apples art
[22:27] <_MMA_> And whether Spashy is ready for default is the issue. If its not, it's unimportant to Mark and Ken.
[22:28] <pwnguin> I doubt that; if some genius decides to write an awesome splashy theme, having to veto it because awesome hardware support trumps awesome art will be a tough choice
[22:28] <_MMA_> hahahaha Don't get me started on that. :P
[22:28]  * DanaG can't even get native-resolution framebuffer.
[22:28] <DanaG> How do you tell usplash to use the fake-widescreen theme instead of the 4:3 theme?
[22:29] <_MMA_> pwnguin: A genius themer can do all they want. If the underlying tech isnt ready, it matters not.
[22:29] <DanaG> If my framebuffer is 1024x768 stretched to widescreen.... it makes circular things non-circular.
[22:29] <_MMA_> DanaG: AFAIK it won't support anything but 4:3 atm.
[22:29] <pwnguin> granted, compiz was pressed into service a bit early
[22:29]  * _MMA_ agrees.
[22:30] <DanaG> I know, but there are pre-squished fake-widescreen usplash themes...
[22:30] <pwnguin> but i thought we had safeguards in place to make sure compiz didn't break things that used to work?
[22:30] <DanaG> and I just don't know how to force usplash to use them.
[22:31] <_MMA_> DanaG: Lemmie see if I can find something for you. 1 sec.
[22:31] <_MMA_> http://www.getdeb.net/app.php?name=usplash-switcher
[22:31] <DanaG> I've currently set usplash.conf for 1024x853, which is 1024 * (4/3 ) / (16/10)
[22:32] <_MMA_> It's on GetDeb but the original Usplash creator wrote that tool.
[22:34] <DanaG> Well, the issue is, it's not a different .so file; it's a different resolution part in the same .so theme.
[22:34] <_MMA_> DanaG: Searching the art list should also show you the manual commands that the app invokes.
[22:35] <_MMA_> Well what is the resolution you're trying to use?
[22:35] <_MMA_> Your FB also has to support it.
[22:35] <_MMA_> Mine wont do over 1024x768 vga=792
[22:36] <DanaG> The point is this: native res is widescreen (1440x900), but the highest res VESA mode is 1024x768.... and I can't turn off stretching.
[22:36] <DanaG> So, I need to force usplash to anti-stretch the thing, so it'll look correct when stretched.
[22:37] <_MMA_> I dont think that's possible unless you edit the source theme and recompile.
[22:37] <DanaG> The only true widescreen framebuffer mode I have.... is 640x400.
[22:37] <_MMA_> There was talk of making usplash-theme-ubuntu-widescreen packages to get around all this crazyness.
[22:38] <_MMA_> But even that would be a manual thing after install.
[22:38] <DanaG> Same with my math hack.
[22:38] <DanaG> Pre-stretch it vertically so it looks correct when stretched horizontally.
[22:39]  * DanaG hopes ATI 3-series cards will support native-res framebuffer... either through VBE modes, or through radeonfb.
[22:45] <_MMA_> Later people. Time for the fam.